stasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3061 posts, RR: 1 Posted (3 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2219 times:
2014 Fiat 500L
The Fiat brand is desperate for success in the North American market. The current 500 and 500C cabriolet have not experienced a great deal of sales success, Jennifer Lopez television commercials or not. Calling Fiat dealerships "studios" has not captured the imagination of Americans. Fiat senior management predicted that 50,000 500's would be sold in its first year in the marketplace - Fiat sold slightly less than 20,000 units. Failure on the scale of the equally poor selling Chevy Volt. I think Fiat's past (well-known) reliability problems are markedly limited its sales.
However, like General Motors and the Volt, Fiat is not throwing in the towel. In fact, they are planning to offer a 5-door version of the 500 in the American market next year, sold as an early 2014 model. This new longer-wheelbase 5-door 500 (possibly called the 500L) will be unveiled this spring at the Geneva Auto Show - which is based on the Fiat Panda people-mover's platform. It is rumored that the "500L" will be powered by a turbocharged version of the current 500's 1.4 liter petrol engine - which is also used in some versions of the new Alfa Romeo-based Dodge Dart compact, where this "Multi-Air" engine produces 160 horsepower, much more that the 101 horsepower in the standard 500 coupe.
[Edited 2012-02-02 21:53:20]
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 23091 posts, RR: 60 Reply 5, posted (3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2117 times:
The 500 is a nice car . Wouldn't have one myself but a neighbour of mine does and I'm quite impressed . Ideal for a single person around town. The Panda is a great little car and you would be surprised how much luggage space their is. Low fuel and low maintenance and not bad on the motorways. I have to say I like Fiat.
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
JJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1487 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2107 times:
Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 6): Anyways, the new 2013 Panda looks very similar. what´s the deal with offering basically the same car?
Well, looking a little into it, it seems the 500L will indeed be substantially larger than a Panda, and it will not be Panda-based but based on the larger Punto (and will be longer than the current punto as well, actually it will fit almost exactly halfway between the Punto and Bravo). The closest counterpart in the Fiat lineup will probably be the Lancia Musa.
Fiat has always kept the Panda and 500 side-to-side, Panda being a budget option and the 500 the retro-cool version. They probably want to do the same with the Punto and 500L.
To me it looks too much like a C3 Picasso, don't think it will sell.
czbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 891 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2072 times:
Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 6): If FIAT wants to sell more 500s in the US, they need to make it a HUGHE SUV with a V8 engine.
Bingo.
I knew this was going to happen. As soon as a sleek, sophisticated Euro car hits the North American market the design suddenly starts to put on bulk and weight... like going through the McDonald's Drive Through a thousand times too many and Supersizing the Fries.
BMW Mini, Smart FourTwo are two examples where the cars have gotten bigger, heavier and bulkier.
The Countrythingy version of the Mini looks more like a Maxi now. You can take an entire original mini and fit it in the back seat.
If their marketing in Vancouver is anything like their marketing across North America it was at the retailing level that they screwed up.
The "specialized FIAT" salesroom was, for more than a year, nothing more than an empty box. Nothing to set it apart. The stock was limited and the staff were very green. There was no finesse to go with the finery of such a cool little car.
Plus there was WAY too much hype. I was on the email list for updates after I first saw it at the 2010 Auto Show. I was getting details like, "Prototype for Canada off the Assembly Line" and "First FIAT 500 Arrives in Canada". It was more like some teenaged twitter channel. I unsubscribed. I still want one, mind you, just not quite so badly.
JJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1487 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2048 times:
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 10): That's Countryman and I think you're stretching it a bit. It's not like the Countryman's the size of a Ford Flex or a Chevy Traverse.
The good part about the mini is the zippy drive and good cornering. Make it bigger, taller and bulkier and you lose most of that.
Yes, it has more interior space, yes it is (optional) AWD, yes it has more ground clearance but at that point you're not looking at a Mini anymore.
KiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 3628 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (3 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2048 times:
I think this will probably be a success, I see this as Fiat's MINI Countryman, I now see far more new Countrymen on the roads here than I do new MINI's. But it shouldn't be called 500L, it should be called a 600.
The 600 was the bigger brother to the 500 back in the day.
Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 6457 posts, RR: 36 Reply 13, posted (3 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2004 times:
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter): The Fiat brand is desperate for success in the North American market. The current 500 and 500C cabriolet have not experienced a great deal of sales success
No Sh&t. What the hell were they thinking? The Fiat 500 is a niche car - to be bought only by women who want a nippy runaround, never to go on long distance drives. Far too limited.
Fiat has some pretty interesting cars that could be successful in the US market.
There's the Chroma
The Linea
The Freemont
the Ulysse
And more. More middle of the road and not so chic, but their selling point will be Italian styling and design, built in USA. A lot of your fashion-conscious public who are currently stuck with very few brands would flock to them.
The only brake on that is their reputation. Fiat came to the US in the 60s and 70s with some pretty poor crap. But I guess most people would have forgotten that by now.
I wish they would bring back Alfa Romeo.
I am Descartes of Borg. I assimilate, therefore I am
Cargolex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 896 posts, RR: 9 Reply 14, posted (3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1957 times:
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
No Sh&t. What the hell were they thinking? The Fiat 500 is a niche car - to be bought only by women who want a nippy runaround, never to go on long distance drives. Far too limited.
Absurd stereotyping. For one thing, once the Abarth version arrives, I don't think you'll be saying "chick car" quite so loudly.
Americans can already by the Fiat Freemont, as it is little more than a rebadged Dodge Journey. Not one of the better leftovers, however, in Chrysler's lineup from the pre-bailout days and deservedly a slow seller.
Fiat wouldn't offer the Ulysse here because Chrysler and Dodge have that market very thoroughly covered and the minivan market isn't a big niche. Not worth the cost of federalizing it.
A more natural expansion of the Fiat line in the US would be the Grande Punto/Linea, which could take on the Focus niche, which is much larger and in which Chrysler does not have a strong presence. But Dodge has already launched an Alfa Giulietta based sedan reviving the Dart name for this purpose, so the Linea probably wouldn't be the best move. The Grande Punto, however, that'd be a good choice.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 11546 posts, RR: 27 Reply 15, posted (3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1925 times:
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
The Fiat brand is desperate for success in the North American market.
Frankly I think they should be focused on bringing back Alfa Romeo as a more full line brand in the US and then have Fiat as a one or two model hanger on like Mini. Use small dealers (new ones connected with Dodge dealers) to offer the 500 and Alfa 4C. Then they can expand it bringing in other Alfa Romeo models as an intermediate, but more stylish, brand between Dodge and Chrysler. Chrysler should drop the 200 entirely and offer at least one car model above that. People who want smaller luxury models can buy Alfas.
Stretching and forcing the reasonably stylish 500 into a more upright and very ugly people mover is defeating the purpose. Use Dodge to sell mundane crap like that.
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter): Failure on the scale of the equally poor selling Chevy Volt.
Apparently dealers are turning down their allocations of Volts.
Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 6): Anyways, the new 2013 Panda looks very similar. what´s the deal with offering basically the same car?
We don't want either.
Quoting JJJ (Reply 11): The good part about the mini is the zippy drive and good cornering. Make it bigger, taller and bulkier and you lose most of that.
Yes, it has more interior space, yes it is (optional) AWD, yes it has more ground clearance but at that point you're not looking at a Mini anymore
The Mini Countryman has one more redeeming quality than the big Fiat 500 in that the Mini allows BMW to be more selective about what they offer in the US to keep their image from being tarnished. For example, they likely will only be offered with six cylinder engines.
Quoting Cargolex (Reply 14): For one thing, once the Abarth version arrives, I don't think you'll be saying "chick car" quite so loudly.
It will be another front wheel drive hot hatch. It will have a nice enthusiast following like the SRT4 did, but it isn't going to make a huge difference in the bottom line.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 6457 posts, RR: 36 Reply 16, posted (3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1918 times:
Quoting Cargolex (Reply 14): Absurd stereotyping. For one thing, once the Abarth version arrives, I don't think you'll be saying "chick car" quite so loudly.
In America, guys who like to go fast (or simply LOOK like they like to go fast buy a Mustang, Challanger, RX-8 or any of a number of sporty cars out there. The tiny hot hatches like in Europe don't have much of a market - a Golf GTI is about as small as they go.
Quoting Cargolex (Reply 14): Americans can already by the Fiat Freemont, as it is little more than a rebadged Dodge Journey. Not one of the better leftovers, however, in Chrysler's lineup from the pre-bailout days and deservedly a slow seller.
Fiat wouldn't offer the Ulysse here because Chrysler and Dodge have that market very thoroughly covered and the minivan market isn't a big niche. Not worth the cost of federalizing it.
Fair point, but if the Fiat name can be associated with Italian styling etc, it might sell.
Quoting Cargolex (Reply 14): A more natural expansion of the Fiat line in the US would be the Grande Punto/Linea, which could take on the Focus niche, which is much larger and in which Chrysler does not have a strong presence
Good point.
Quoting Cargolex (Reply 14): But Dodge has already launched an Alfa Giulietta based sedan reviving the Dart name for this purpose,
Which I think is a terrible idea. the Dart never was a well-regarded name. It's like Ford relaunching the Pinto or Edsel.
I would love to see the Alfa Romeo Brera come over here.
I am Descartes of Borg. I assimilate, therefore I am
Cargolex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 896 posts, RR: 9 Reply 17, posted (3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 1898 times:
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16): In America, guys who like to go fast (or simply LOOK like they like to go fast buy a Mustang, Challanger, RX-8 or any of a number of sporty cars out there. The tiny hot hatches like in Europe don't have much of a market - a Golf GTI is about as small as they go.
I don't agree. Honestly I've been around car guys a long time and my own tastes have run from big block Pontiacs to small Fiats to exotic europeans and even several Japanese sports cars. If it's a good car, it'll get a following. Miatas were once regarded as chick cars, but they're very popular with (mostly male) racers.
But I don't disagree that the 500 is simply too small to ever appeal to mainstream American tastes. I love fiats, I've had five of them and wrenched on all of them myself. So when given access to the 500 very early on, I really wanted to like it. It's a nice car, and fun to drive. But it's too small to fit my needs, and if I can't make it work - somebody who lived with far less practical elderly Fiats sometimes as daily drivers, most other Americans can't make it work either.
The Grande Punto however, would be a great choice. It looks like a small Maserati 3200GT and handles quite well. Fiat would still have an uphill climb to prove quality, however.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16): if the Fiat name can be associated with Italian styling etc, it might sell.
Perhaps, but who buys a Minivan for styling?
The detailing in the Ulysse is likely far better than the Caravan, but it's still a smaller, less practical minivan with a badge people wouldn't know. The Fiat-PSA minivans have always been a little smaller than American equivalents or the Renault Espace (for a long time Europe's favorite minivan), and they've never really had all that much of an impact.
Now, it could play if there was a presence for Lancia, because Lancia's version is quite luxurious, but that'll never happen. Lancia holds on to it's existence by the thinnest of strings.
Lancia's european dealers are now getting Lancia Thema badged Chrysler 300s, which is a better opportunity for them than a Fiat Ulysse for Chrysler dealers. But even then, the numbers will be very, very small for European Themas.
I don't think it was such a hot idea either. It isn't quite as poorly regarded as Pinto or Vega, but not many people ever got excited about the historical Dart, and it's best remembered today as a hearing-aid-beige sedan with a brown vinyl top driven by retirees. Durable but hardly exciting. There was a time when there really were exciting Dodge Darts, but for every Dart GTS with a 383, there are 100 Slant six Dart sedans with rusty quarter panels and fraying vinyl.
Not sure why they picked this particular name, a new name might have been better. I can get why they wouldn't continue "Caliber" however, or revive "Neon." Both tainted names now.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16): I would love to see the Alfa Romeo Brera come over here.
Ah the Brera. If ever there was a claim for false advertising...it looks so good, but drives pretty much like any other generic front-drive sedan.
Alfa's problem, over the last thirty years, has been promising a BMW experience but only delivering Honda Accord dynamics, often with Daewoo Lanos reliability problems (though that is far better today than it was ten years ago and certainly 20 years ago).
Alfa would be a great fit here, but it would have to be positioned above Chrysler, not between Chrysler and Dodge - a narrow niche.
JJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1487 posts, RR: 2 Reply 18, posted (3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1809 times:
Quoting Cargolex (Reply 17): Ah the Brera. If ever there was a claim for false advertising...it looks so good, but drives pretty much like any other generic front-drive sedan.
For one, the interesting engine in the Brera (the V6) is available as AWD only.
But then, there are FWD cars and FWD cars, I already posted a vid from a German magazine test in which the FWD 159 came top off the rest of the competition in maneuverability, including the RWD BMW 3-series and Merc C-class.
srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16224 posts, RR: 57 Reply 19, posted (3 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1795 times:
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Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter): Calling Fiat dealerships "studios" has not captured the imagination of Americans
Many of these "studios" opened up in former dealer space that at first retained their former looks with temporary signage to indicate that it's a Fiat dealer. That probably didn't instill confidence in the brand for potential early buyers. I've got a Fiat "studio" down the street from me, but it's not exactly in a great location, as it's the only car dealership left in that particular area, as over the years they all moved away from the mall and onto the highway the mall is off of. That particular space was a "preowned" lot for a few years, as the dealer had moved their Lincoln-Mercury dealership elsewhere (before selling their territorial rights to the Lincoln dealership to the local Ford dealer), but the Fiat "studio" is their baby now.
Driving by one of the Fiat dealerships on the other side of town, there doesn't seem to be many folks looking at them. I know that many folks are waiting for the Abarth version to hit the market. They've got an interesting 500 Stinger custom vehicle that they could probably sell as a factory-built vehicle and not a specialty Mopar custom one:
I've probably seen no more than a dozen 500s on the roads around Atlanta, while I see plenty of Minis as well as Smarts on a daily basis. This new variant may entice more folks into looking into the 500 since it is more Mini-like.
Quoting Cargolex (Reply 14): Not one of the better leftovers, however, in Chrysler's lineup from the pre-bailout days and deservedly a slow seller.
The problem is that Dodge never really has marketed it too well in the US. To be honest, the Journey probably should be a Chrysler product and not a Dodge.
Hello Airplanes? Yeah, it's Blimps. You win, bye....
seb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 8614 posts, RR: 19 Reply 20, posted (3 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1783 times:
That they introduced the 500 in the States at all was their biggest mistake. Now a 4 door? That nobody wants anyway? When I finally decide on a new car, I am going with either Honda or Volkswagen. Not a piece of Italian junk that is endorsed by a marginally good singer.
BTW, ever since she went on American Idol, my respect for her has plummeted...
Wheel of morality turn, turn, turn. Tell us the lesson that we should learn
L410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5320 posts, RR: 22 Reply 21, posted (3 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1760 times:
I have hard time deciding which idea is more misguided. Whether it's trying to sell 4-door Fiat 500 on a US market obsessed with size and othe rridiculous prejudices or whether it's pretending an ugly a$$ 300c is a "Lancia" in Europe.
poLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 475 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1742 times:
Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 6): If FIAT wants to sell more 500s in the US, they need to make it a HUGHE SUV with a V8 engine.
Quoting czbbflier (Reply 9): I knew this was going to happen. As soon as a sleek, sophisticated Euro car hits the North American market the design suddenly starts to put on bulk and weight... like going through the McDonald's Drive Through a thousand times too many and Supersizing the Fries.
Quoting seb146 (Reply 20): That they introduced the 500 in the States at all was their biggest mistake. Now a 4 door? That nobody wants anyway? When I finally decide on a new car, I am going with either Honda or Volkswagen. Not a piece of Italian junk that is endorsed by a marginally good singer.
Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 21): I have hard time deciding which idea is more misguided. Whether it's trying to sell 4-door Fiat 500 on a US market obsessed with size and othe rridiculous prejudices or whether it's pretending an ugly a$$ 300c is a "Lancia" in Europe.
Keep in mind the 500L will also be available in Europe, and my guess was preliminarily designed with that region in mind probably as a replacement for the Multipla. They are just calming down the US dealerships who have to currently deal with one slower than expected selling product for awhile, especially since the Alfa Romeo US launch has been pushed back again (for about the 10th time in the past decade) . In fact it will launch in Europe first with US sales to follow later.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 11546 posts, RR: 27 Reply 23, posted (3 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1732 times:
Quoting srbmod (Reply 19): Many of these "studios" opened up in former dealer space that at first retained their former looks with temporary signage to indicate that it's a Fiat dealer.
The one nearest me happens to be a former Saturn dealer.
Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 21): US market obsessed with size and othe rridiculous prejudices or whether it's pretending an ugly a$$ 300c is a "Lancia" in Europe.
That and, if I remember right, the 300 is sold as a Chrysler in the UK but with only two V6 diesel engines. They left out the best part of the equation - the Hemi V8. You can't try and sell the big American sedan without the big American engine.
Quoting seb146 (Reply 20): That they introduced the 500 in the States at all was their biggest mistake. Now a 4 door? That nobody wants anyway?
The 500 isn't a bad car, but it's hard to market a tradition that doesn't really exist in America. Everyone knows the Beetle and Mini, so the re-imagined Beetle and Mini have some retro appeal. But the Fiat 500 isn't that well known over here, so it's trying to trade partially on a reputation and tradition it doesn't have. So instead of being a retro cool updated version of a beloved old model, it's just a vaguely retro small car. Like the PT Cruiser.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 11546 posts, RR: 27 Reply 25, posted (3 months 3 weeks ago) and read 1727 times:
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 24): The new 328 is a turbo 4 cylinder, so you're going to see 4 cylinder BMW's in the US.
I meant to be referring only to the X1. But even with other cars, the US will only likely see the top few engines in the range. I haven't heard what engines will be offered in the US for the new 1 Series, but I'd bet on the 125i and maybe 125d if we're lucky. Smaller engines and front wheel drive will most likely stay as the domain of Mini over here. I would highly doubt seeing any BMWs with 116 horsepower and 10+ second 0-60 times being sold in America anytime soon.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1371 posts, RR: 1 Reply 27, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1724 times:
What an ugly car! The standard 500 is a great little car, though I'm not really sure its best suited to American tastes and I doubt this version is really going to give them the success they want.
garpd From UK - Scotland, joined Aug 2005, 2103 posts, RR: 4 Reply 28, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1714 times:
The new 500 is like the Mini.
You don't buy it for practicality, efficiency, etc. You buy it for the badge.
The 500 is essentialy a Fiat Panda with a bodykit.
The mini is no longer mini, it's a Golf with a funky bodykit.
Neither of them live up to the legend of the originals.
Fiat know, just like BMW do, there are plenty of vain people in the world would won't be seen dead in a Polo, Lupo, Fiesta, 207, but will kill for a 500 or Mini. They can make it look pretty much how they want, it will sell.
The Mini and the 500 are the Apple i-products of the motoring world.
JJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1487 posts, RR: 2 Reply 29, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1698 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 23): That and, if I remember right, the 300 is sold as a Chrysler in the UK but with only two V6 diesel engines. They left out the best part of the equation - the Hemi V8. You can't try and sell the big American sedan without the big American engine.
The UK gets the Hemi petrol and the V6 diesel, the Lancia version sold in Europe gets the diesel plus a 3.6 V6 gas.
KiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 3628 posts, RR: 2 Reply 30, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1690 times:
Quoting garpd (Reply 28):
Neither of them live up to the legend of the originals.
Having owned a couple of originals and two of the new ones I disagree, the new ones are better in every respect.
Quoting garpd (Reply 28): The mini is no longer mini, it's a Golf with a funky bodykit.
I also owned a Golf 5, a MINI certainly isn't a Golf with a bodykit, what sort of insane babbling is this, the Countryman is Golf sized, the Coupe/Clubman are a lot smaller.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 11546 posts, RR: 27 Reply 31, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1655 times:
Quoting JJJ (Reply 29): The UK gets the Hemi petrol and the V6 diesel
Apparently they're dropping the V8 on the new version. All the UK will be getting is two versions of the diesel engine according to Top Gear. Chrysler seems to have removed the only compelling reason for Europeans to buy a 300.
[Edited 2012-02-04 11:15:00]
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
czbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 891 posts, RR: 3 Reply 32, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1586 times:
Quoting JJJ (Reply 11): The good part about the mini is the zippy drive and good cornering. Make it bigger, taller and bulkier and you lose most of that.
Yes, it has more interior space, yes it is (optional) AWD, yes it has more ground clearance but at that point you're not looking at a Mini anymore.
Quoting poLOT (Reply 22): Keep in mind the 500L will also be available in Europe
But if the 500 hadn't made the leap to SuperSizeLand, the urge to pork it out would not have occurred to anybody because it is excellent design already.
There was a 600? That makes sense. Keep the 500, add the 600. Just like in North America the old Sebring became the 200, a diminutive version of the 300.
Quoting aerdingus (Reply 26): Defeats the whole purpose of it being a FIAT 500!!
Exactly. Just like the Countrythingy defeats the whole ethos of "mini".
poLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 475 posts, RR: 0 Reply 33, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1578 times:
Quoting czbbflier (Reply 32): But if the 500 hadn't made the leap to SuperSizeLand, the urge to pork it out would not have occurred to anybody because it is excellent design already.
I'm sure they still would have done it.
The 500 is a great car, but it is entering its 5th year in the market in Europe with minimal updates. It is a car that gains a premium on being stylish, so it either must be continuously updated or the line up expanded so that it won't fall out of favor, just like what Mini has done. First by making it a convertible with the 500C, and now expanding it with the 500L. It is just natural progression. The fact that it will likely be more attractive in North America than the regular version is just extra gravy.
stasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3061 posts, RR: 1 Reply 34, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1571 times:
Quoting srbmod (Reply 19): The problem is that Dodge never really has marketed it too well in the US. To be honest, the Journey probably should be a Chrysler product and not a Dodge.
Or Chrysler should have just used it as a replacement for the Pacifica - although the Pacifica had a truly awful reliability record and was rather fuel-thirsty. It was a very good crossover with a smooth ride and plenty of room.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
LOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 35, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1462 times:
This car is never going to be popular in the USA with the said price and what you get for it (which is almost nothing). Unless we all start worshipping J.Lo that is.
Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 6457 posts, RR: 36 Reply 36, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1446 times:
Quoting poLOT (Reply 33): The 500 is a great car, but it is entering its 5th year in the market in Europe with minimal updates. It is a car that gains a premium on being stylish, so it either must be continuously updated or the line up expanded so that it won't fall out of favor, just like what Mini has done. First by making it a convertible with the 500C, and now expanding it with the 500L. It is just natural progression. The fact that it will likely be more attractive in North America than the regular version is just extra gravy.
OK with the convertible, but in stretching it to a 4-door, it goes from a cutesy fashion statement to utilitarian super-mini. Blah.
BTW, I remember driving one of the originals. Motor by Singer, no syncros on the gears - driving that around town was an adventure
.
I am Descartes of Borg. I assimilate, therefore I am
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 12568 posts, RR: 68 Reply 37, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1439 times:
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 36):
BTW, I remember driving one of the originals. Motor by Singer, no syncros on the gears - driving that around town was an adventure
.
A Fiat 500 was my dad´s first car back in 1961. He bought it to drive all the way from Berlin to the mountains of Catalonia for his masteral thesis research (Topic was to create a geological map of a region in the Pyrenees. He spent more than 6 months up there, living with a farmer family in a remote village).
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 30440 posts, RR: 77 Reply 38, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1395 times:
The "failure" of Fiat is greatly over-exaggerated. The fact is the brand rollout was very slow. The 50,000 predicted annual sales were based on a much quicker roll out and dealer openings that did not happen, and, in fact, still hasn't happened. Fiat's first year volume was very strong for a new brand - its actually around the same amount that Mini sold in its first year in the U.S., and look how well Mini does today. Fiat has a bright future here, but needs to expand the range. That said, predicting 50,000 first year sales was over optimistic, even if the brand had rolled out as quicky as planned.
Quoting Cargolex (Reply 14): Americans can already by the Fiat Freemont, as it is little more than a rebadged Dodge Journey. Not one of the better leftovers, however, in Chrysler's lineup from the pre-bailout days and deservedly a slow seller.
The Dodge Journey sells quite well in both the U.S. and Canada. It's actually one of Canada's ten best selling vehicles, while in the U.S. Chrysler moves around 5,000 a month.
Quoting poLOT (Reply 22): Keep in mind the 500L will also be available in Europe, and my guess was preliminarily designed with that region in mind probably as a replacement for the Multipla.
The 500L is the first Fiat designed primarily with the U.S. market in mind.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 11546 posts, RR: 27 Reply 39, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1380 times:
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 38): The 500L is the first Fiat designed primarily with the U.S. market in mind.
The issue is that offering the 500L appeals to a different crowd, since they are undoing a lot of the style and fun-to-drive factor that appeals to 500 buyers. I don't see the point in importing what is essentially a rather garden variety people mover as part of a brand that is either largely unknown or known for the wrong reasons.
If I were in charge I'd leave Fiat with just the 500 and accelerate the return of Alfa Romeo. Frankly, I'd end Chrysler 200 production tomorrow and start importing Alfas instead if I could and position that brand as the stylish small luxury brand to compete with Mini, Buick, and some of the smaller luxury brand models. The Fiat 500 could essentially be just the smallest model in that lineup with better performance and features than a Dodge subcompact.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7560 posts, RR: 6 Reply 40, posted (3 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1351 times:
I'd buy the 500L (if I were still in the market for a new car) on one condition: Fiat offers a steering wheel that tilts and telescopes to better suit American driver preferences.
That's why I drive a 2012 Honda Fit Sport AT--the steering wheel tilts and telescopes so I could get a decent driving position. (Wish the car had a tad more power, though.)
LOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 41, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1239 times:
Quoting RayChuang (Reply 40): That's why I drive a 2012 Honda Fit Sport AT--the steering wheel tilts and telescopes so I could get a decent driving position. (Wish the car had a tad more power, though.)
Actually there is a good observation, there arent enough cars with telescoping steering wheels in the US. Forget about Europe for now and their spartan standard equipment but Im sort of surprised more mfrs dont offer this, even as an option.
Aesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 3001 posts, RR: 3 Reply 42, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1207 times:
Just so you know there was a 500 and then a 600 in the 90's and 2000's, that didn't look like the original ones. And the 600 was not a larger 500, it was its replacement, the same size and platform but with a newer design. They were called with the number in Italian : Fiat Cinquecento and Seicento. Nothing fancy about them, they were entry level cars.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
GSPflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 251 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1205 times:
Quoting MIAspotter (Reply 6): If FIAT wants to sell more 500s in the US, they need to make it a HUGHE SUV with a V8 engine.
Exactly. Americans buy big cars/trucks. It seems like the auto makers are being pressured into making cars smaller to be more "Green," when, in the American market, it would be more beneficial to focus their options on bringing better technology to the larger trucks and SUVs to make them more efficient and "green." Ford is on the right track with Ecoboost.
Aleksandar From Serbia, joined Jul 2000, 3173 posts, RR: 38 Reply 44, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 988 times:
This new 5-door Fiat 500 will be made in Kragujevac factory in my country and everybody is looking forward to it. Apparently, it will help not just the economy of that city, but it will help the country's economy. Anyway, I expected more ad I think we will need more information about that car because everything seems a bit confusing as others pointed it out: there is a 500 as a small, trendy car (I will add typically European with little chance in North America as such) and Fiat Panda...where does Fiat plan to put this new car?
Aesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 3001 posts, RR: 3 Reply 45, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 968 times:
Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 43): Exactly. Americans buy big cars/trucks. It seems like the auto makers are being pressured into making cars smaller to be more "Green," when, in the American market, it would be more beneficial to focus their options on bringing better technology to the larger trucks and SUVs to make them more efficient and "green." Ford is on the right track with Ecoboost.
But you also want lots of equipment (weight), lots of security features (more weight), and several hundred of hp (weight again, and inefficiency), while the rest of the world can somehow drive faster with half that power.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
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