MadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 9224 posts, RR: 50 Posted (3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1519 times:
3 Ways Facebook Plans to Exploit Users
"In a move hitting the front page of nearly every newspaper in the world, social networking giant Facebook took the first steps toward an initial public offering (IPO) yesterday by filing what's called an S-1 form with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
...
Facebook's plans to make even more money from members using the free service to connect with old friends.
1. Facebook is going to "sell" users for $120 each
2. Facebook users are about to become billboards
3. The IPO is as much a Public Relations coup as a Share offering
The Fraud is already starting on the Facebook IPO. SEC issues emergency action to stop a certain group who is engaging in a scam to do with the IPO: (They have already obtained over $12 million that is pure fraud)
Log off! As Facebook plans a $5bn stock market float, one trenchant sceptic describes how the social network is ruthlessly selling your soul
...
In actual fact, though, Facebook is a gigantic, and really quite frightening, advertising scam. Its business model is to collect information about individual consumers (you) and sell that information back to advertisers.
Birdwatching From South Africa, joined Sep 2003, 3313 posts, RR: 54 Reply 1, posted (3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1496 times:
Honestly, I don't care about what you write. When I upload or post anything on the internet, I expect it to be read and shared and what not. If they make $120 from my profile, whatever. Good for them!
Whatever of my info or photos I don't want to be messed around with, I don't upload to the internet.
Airliners.net is making big money from the 3258 forum posts and the 12 photos I've uploaded to this site. I've never seen a penny of it. So what?
Soren
When I get sad, I stop being sad and be awesome instead! True story.
vikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 6516 posts, RR: 29 Reply 2, posted (3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1486 times:
Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter): In actual fact, though, Facebook is a gigantic, and really quite frightening, advertising scam. Its business model is to collect information about individual consumers (you) and sell that information back to advertisers.
If you want to take that view of it, the entire internet is a gigantic, and really quite frightening, advertising scam.
Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter):
They probably pass on all the information on users to all the different governments, too. A worldwide database with people's pictures and information.
Again, that's the entire internet.
Facebook is but a (large) cog in this machinery.
Also, it would be quite beneficial if you would separate text quoted from articles from your own writing. Very difficult to tell otherwise.
The spirit of Massachusetts is the spirit of America!
Fly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1469 times:
With all due respect Madame but the vast majority of the threads you start always seem to jump into conclusions too soon and you seem to give in to sensationalist media hype way to easily instead of stopping for a second and thinking whether it makes any sense or not. Which int his case of course it doesn't.
Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter): They probably pass on all the information on users to all the different governments, too. A worldwide database with people's pictures and information.
Well if you're going to be that paranoid about it I suggest you never get on the internet again.
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 2697 posts, RR: 25 Reply 4, posted (3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 1436 times:
Eh, they can steal the 2 lines of information and 3 photos about me I put up on FB lol. It's a big waste of $120 to know what I put on my profile so the joke's on them. Plus I have AdBlock so their stupid ads that are targeted by me I never see
No, really, I don't need to. It's the Daily Mail, their position is predictable and I'm prepared to prove it;
- They will blab on about how sites like Facebook are morally corrupting our children, making them fat lazy ASBOites by using it to target them with ads for junk food and drink like McDonalds or Coke, thus ensuring that the future for mankind is inevitably ruined.
- They will compare this invasion of our privacy with Orwell's 1984 and warn users that Facebook is subverting our freedom and that we are all just unsuspecting pawns in the plan of an evil corporate monster who will trick us into selling our souls to other corporate giants.
- They will remind us that every single child ever to have been on facebook has both been sexually molested, bullied and quite probably murdered as a result. Those that didn't get murdered will have committed suicide instead. It's a Daily Mail fact!
I have not opened or read the article, but I'm happy to bet that at least one of those three will be in it.
Maverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 3807 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (3 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 1340 times:
Quoting MadameConcorde (Thread starter): Its business model is to collect information about individual consumers (you) and sell that information back to advertisers.
Wait, you mean the same advertising strategy that's been used since, oh, jeez, advertising began?
I didn't see all this uproar when phone surveys began. Or before then when paper surveys (which still exist, BTW) were handed out, and the results compiled and sold.
I wasn't aware that when you freely post things about yourself, that you somehow still have a right to keep that information private. It's like opening up Pandora's box and then complaining when the stuff gets out because "OMG IT'S EVULZ THEY CAN'T DO THAT!!!!!!11oneone"
PSA53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2873 posts, RR: 5 Reply 7, posted (3 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1254 times:
I completly agree with you,Madame.
Why is it that the lot of you raise stink about government intrusion but you give approval with private/business sector intruding.What's up with that?Here is a super mega business,with chat programs,that can monitor what you say.Take down and use that information against you.How do you know that later on a mallware type program might be created.You seem to give a free pass to this. And Smartphones,too.Smart for whom?And then there is Twitter accounts in which the media is picking off information from public figures.
Madame,you raise legitimate concerns.I want somebody to ask for my consent and exactly what they're going to do with my info and if it is for profit, I want to be paid.
vikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 6516 posts, RR: 29 Reply 8, posted (3 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1232 times:
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 7):
Why is it that the lot of you raise stink about government intrusion but you give approval with private/business sector intruding.What's up with that?Here is a super mega business,with chat programs,that can monitor what you say.Take down and use that information against you.How do you know that later on a mallware type program might be created.You seem to give a free pass to this. And Smartphones,too.Smart for whom?
Facebook provides a service that you have a CHOICE to use or not to use. That's what businesses do - provide a service you can use, for something in return.
In Facebook's case, they don't charge you money. But they take info, and sell it or do whatever they may with it.
Again, that's EXACTLY what businesses do - exchange services.
The government isn't a private business, so there's not a whole lot of point in saying they should do the same thing.
The spirit of Massachusetts is the spirit of America!
WestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 591 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (3 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1217 times:
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 8): Facebook provides a service that you have a CHOICE to use or not to use. That's what businesses do - provide a service you can use, for something in return.
In Facebook's case, they don't charge you money. But they take info, and sell it or do whatever they may with it.
Again, that's EXACTLY what businesses do - exchange services.
Well said vikkyvik. But I think you should have bolded and italicized the word "choice" for a little added effect
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 7): And Smartphones,too.Smart for whom?
I happen to work in R&D for the company that pioneered the smartphone...and I can assure you there are no privacy issues and that your information is not being used for anything other than internal usage monitoring. The logs created by the software don't even register keystrokes, only what we call "events".
einsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 1639 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (3 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1215 times:
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 7): Why is it that the lot of you raise stink about government intrusion but you give approval with private/business sector intruding.What's up with that?
Because unlike the government, I'm using this service by my own free will and to continue using it, I must be subjected for its rules and terms (that's the little check box window many of us don't bother on reading before saying "Agree"). When I'm tired of Facebook, take down everything, and close your account. Simple.
Sure, they'll retain pictures and info for the off chance you want to return, but otherwise I don't see how this is even a problem.
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 7): And Smartphones,too.Smart for whom?
Let's go back to the Stone Age when we had to yell or go to the person so that our message gets across without fear of interception (I'd suggest carrier pigeons but there might be some concerns raised that these pigeons are government ones and can read letters and transmit them to federal facilities to spy on you).
I'm sorry. But I don't see where the legitimate concerns are here. Do these people harass you by phone, in person, email, etc? Ever wondered how Google makes its money? Yep, it sees what you search and finds you advertisers with the same thing. Right now, to the right of this screen, I see ads for cheap tickets (including an AA link since I flew last week with them). I certainly have no problems with that. That's how these services make their money.
Don't want Facebook selling your data? Close it up. Too fond of Farmville? Then get an add blocker, get used to it, or suggest a premium account.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
Centre From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 418 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1045 times:
The first thing my son says when he watches his Toddler's songs on youtube et.al is: "click on the X"...Meaning: Close the Ad.
How many of you click or follow those ads?
For me, if I want to buy something, I will search for it, and usually it's too late when they hit me with their ads.
trvyyz From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1266 posts, RR: 13 Reply 15, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1012 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13): If you put it anywhere on the internet, it's no longer private information. So don't complain when it gets shared.
Agreed. but Selling those info is whole different thing.
If you put a pic on Internet, you cannot complain when it gets shared, but if it is sold by somebody without your consent, it is not the same situation.
ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 11686 posts, RR: 8 Reply 16, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1009 times:
I do not have a Facebook page. No need and I want to control what little privacy I have left. To me it is the devils most evil spawn.
The IPO of Facebook means they are now going to have to satisfy the shareholders, a few very rich persons, mutual funds (for your pensions and retirement funds) with huge dividends and ever increasing share value. That can't be done with general ads.That further means that they are going to sell even more of your personal inormation to marketers and huge world wide corporations to in turn be able to sell to you. I also expect that sometime soon you will have to pay ever more pricey tiers of fees for even basic placement, have a large amount of pictures or data or have a lot of friends, then you will be paying like a cable or cell phone bill or even more. Corporate users will face ever increasing fees for page placements and for that information. This is another part of the dark side of capitalism.
Rara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 1374 posts, RR: 3 Reply 18, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 946 times:
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 11): I'll add: at least it's free! nuff said...
No such thing as a free lunch..
I believe Facebook is indeed dangerous, but not quite in the way described here. Companies providing services at no nominal cost, and making revenue with advertisements? Fair enough. Profiling users and targetting the ads towards them? Fair enough.
What I see Facebook trying to do, however, is to create a closed system in which users are "locked in", and kept as much as possible from accessing the real, open internet, where they aren't under FB's control. Ad-financed companies like Facebook hate the open internet, because they can't track people and generate revenue from their activities. So they try to lock-in users as much as they can. Apple does that too, with their appstore walled garden. Google does, with connecting all their services under their new social web umbrella. And Facebook does too. In the long term, this make the internet, once hailed to be decentralized, uncontrollable network, a tightly-controlled marketing platform that is designed entirely for profit maximization of huge companies. There is a real, tangible danger here, and let's just say Facebook aren't the good guys.
I had an interesting Facebook discussion recently with a couple of folks, one of which made her living as a curator. Basically, her business model is to know and connect with hundreds of people. Social networking isn't a pasttime for her, it's her nine-to-five. Anyway, somebody threw that "just close your Facebook account if you don't like it" around, and she just smiled and she could close her business right along with it. Makes you think.
WestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 591 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 928 times:
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 16): To me it is the devils most evil spawn.
Ya Facebook is soooo much worse than the slave-trade or genocide
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 16): with huge dividends and ever increasing share value
Two things wrong with this statement: 1) There hasn't been so much as a peep about potential dividends, nor should there be until they are actually trading. 2) There is no such thing as "ever increasing share value", that's not how the stock market works. If that statement were true, we might as well all by a couple shares on the first day of trading and be patient until we're all millionaires...
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 16): That can't be done with general ads.That further means that they are going to sell even more of your personal inormation to marketers and huge world wide corporations to in turn be able to sell to you. I also expect that sometime soon you will have to pay ever more pricey tiers of fees for even basic placement, have a large amount of pictures or data or have a lot of friends, then you will be paying like a cable or cell phone bill or even more. Corporate users will face ever increasing fees for page placements and for that information. This is another part of the dark side of capitalism.
A fan of George Orwell eh?
Quoting trvyyz (Reply 15): If you put a pic on Internet, you cannot complain when it gets shared, but if it is sold by somebody without your consent, it is not the same situation
By logging on to Facebook you are giving them your consent. Just look at point 2.1 of the privacy terms. Don't complain if you don't care to take the time to read the terms and conditions!
Quoting Rara (Reply 18): There is a real, tangible danger here, and let's just say Facebook aren't the good guys.
trvyyz From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 1266 posts, RR: 13 Reply 20, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 912 times:
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 19): Just look at point 2.1 of the privacy terms. Don't complain if you don't care to take the time to read the terms and conditions!
For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.
I am not a lawyer, does the above consent give them permission to sell my photos and make money out of it? Use and sell is different afaik.
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 19): Don't complain if you don't care to take the time to read the terms and conditions!
I am not complaining, I really don't give a $hit what they do with my info if I sign up with them.
WestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 591 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 900 times:
Quoting trvyyz (Reply 20): I am not a lawyer, does the above consent give them permission to sell my photos and make money out of it? Use and sell is different afaik.
"you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook"...By saying they are licensing material, it means that companies are paying them to use their information. Technically there is no real "selling" because there is no real transfer of ownership. Right to the information remains with Facebook, giving those companies who pay fees access to its content.
Quoting trvyyz (Reply 20): I am not complaining, I really don't give a $hit what they do with my info if I sign up with them.
That statement was more directed at the broader group, not just you. Should have worded it better, my mistake.
PSA53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2873 posts, RR: 5 Reply 22, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 869 times:
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 9): Quoting PSA53 (Reply 7):
And Smartphones,too.Smart for whom?
I happen to work in R&D for the company that pioneered the smartphone...and I can assure you there are no privacy issues and that your information is not being used for anything other than internal usage monitoring. The logs created by the software don't even register keystrokes, only what we call "events".
Thanks for the info.What is internal usage monitoring? The carrier or user? Or both.
Me and some of my friends are concerned when entering bank accounts and credit card #'s.
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 8): Facebook provides a service that you have a CHOICE to use or not to use.
This is true.My choice is to sit on the sidelines(terminate account) until I feel FB,as now a forthcoming public company,who are now under pressure to produce sales gains, will restore my confidence that any abuses put in check and accountability remain in place.
WestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 591 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 843 times:
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22): What is internal usage monitoring?
We gather information on how the smartphone is used so we know how to improve on future builds of the software. So for example, if we find the majority of people are using one application far more than another, that data will justify us spending a lot more on developing the app that is more frequently used by the customer, and putting the less frequently used one on the backburner.
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22): The carrier or user? Or both
We typically analyze the end-user activities more carefully, but we do analyze trends from carrier to carrier. I actually have little knowledge of how we deal with wireless carriers directly so I can't really answer that question in good faith.
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22): Me and some of my friends are concerned when entering bank accounts and credit card #'s.
It's easier to steal credit card numbers from a laptop's wireless signal than it is from a smartphone's radio signal. That advantage is of course is negated if you choose to use a wifi signal on your smartphone.
Quoting PSA53 (Reply 22): My choice is to sit on the sidelines(terminate account) until I feel FB,as now a forthcoming public company,who are now under pressure to produce sales gains, will restore my confidence that any abuses put in check and accountability remain in place.
A valid point. But as a public company they will now be under a microscope 25 hours a day. Any serious breach in security or consumer confidence could spell disaster, and I'm sure Facebook would take every precaution to not overstep too many boundaries. Just my though
steeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 8524 posts, RR: 22 Reply 24, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 782 times:
Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 1): Honestly, I don't care about what you write. When I upload or post anything on the internet, I expect it to be read and shared and what not. If they make $120 from my profile, whatever. Good for them!
Whatever of my info or photos I don't want to be messed around with, I don't upload to the internet.
Airliners.net is making big money from the 3258 forum posts and the 12 photos I've uploaded to this site. I've never seen a penny of it. So what?
Soren
My sentiments exactly...
Next...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
Flighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 6724 posts, RR: 3 Reply 25, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 754 times:
Facebook is terrible. It started as a pure craigslist or wikipedia-style experience. It was really nice. But, the owner (Zuckerberg) is a smaller man than somebody like Jimmy Wales. He isn't an actual great benefactor to people. He is just a schmuck who is literally mining our personalities to make money? Disgusting. Like the movie suggests, this kid is somebody who girls didn't like, so he has a chip on his shoulder, and wants to take advantage of people. JMO.
airportugal310 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 2745 posts, RR: 2 Reply 26, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 739 times:
Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 23): It's easier to steal credit card numbers from a laptop's wireless signal than it is from a smartphone's radio signal. That advantage is of course is negated if you choose to use a wifi signal on your smartphone.
Random question...if you're using wifi via the smartphone, but the wifi is on a private network, is the advantage still negated?
WestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 591 posts, RR: 0 Reply 29, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 721 times:
Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 26): Random question...if you're using wifi via the smartphone, but the wifi is on a private network, is the advantage still negated?
Yes and no. Depends how secure the network is.
I'm on the business side of our R&D department, not the developer side, so my technical knowledge isn't really up to snuff on security features. I also deal with applications more than operating systems, so take my answer with a grain of salt!
Quoting Flighty (Reply 28): His wealth is in the tens of billions, right?
That's what they say. But that number is representative of all his assets and earning potential. So if he liquidated *everything* he owns right now he might make that much. When talking about the net worth of the filthy-rich it can start to get a bit speculative.
Quoting Flighty (Reply 28): he owns a big part of the company
Quoting Flighty (Reply 28): Zuckerberg still retains majority of voting shares. It's his company.
Again, 28%. (sources differ on this number, but the most credible sources I've seen say 28%)
Quoting Flighty (Reply 28): His salary matters about as much as a chewing gum habit.
Very true. The point I was making was that he isn't raking in massive cashable cheques every second Friday, his wealth is based on his stake in the company.
geezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 715 posts, RR: 1 Reply 30, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 671 times:
I have mixed feeling about Facebook; Miss Arlie has a facebook page, and keeps track of all of her many friends that way, which I might add, is a hell of a lot easier than sending everyone emails all the time. On the other hand........I never pay any attention to what everyone is saying, and I never post anything on facebook; I'm just not "into" telling everyone I know what I'm doing, day in, day out. I do see facebook as being a great thing for those people who use it that way; as far as the negative consequences of using facebook...... about like those of having an email account.............always having people trying to sell you something. Believe me, if everyone was "like me", you would ALL be suffering.....because TV would no longer be free (paid for by advertisers) I am less "influenced" by advertising than anyone I know; I buy only what I like, what I'm interested in, and when I want objective information about a product, I don't pay a hell of a lot of attention to what the company selling the product has to say about it; I'm more interested in what people who have used it think, and even then, I take their information with a grain of salt.
So is facebook a "threat" to me ? Not that I can see at the moment; if I DO see it, it will be out of my life....PRONTO !
One thing that does NOT bother me, (unlike a few people who have already made replies to this thread), is other people who make a ton of money. I don't give a damn how much Zuckerberg (or anyone else for that matter) makes; what I DO give a damn about, is when they start trying to use their millions to "buy" things (such as votes from members of congress), that in turn will hurt me and every one else. But I could care less if they write a book, make a bunch of bucks, give dumb speeches, etc. Hey......if any one is dumb enough to go hear Bill Clinton give a speech, I'll surely think you're dumb, but I won't waste my time being jealous because Bill got paid to give the speech !
I can think of several things that I'm a hell of a lot more worried about than facebook; (maybe I'll start a thread)
mal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 618 posts, RR: 0 Reply 31, posted (3 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 642 times:
Sorry Madame , But yet another thread you have started , that hos no real substance in what you are saying. Facebook along with all other forms of public media on the net are open for all to see, if they want to look and find it. Anybody can look at my FB profile anytime they want , and I really do not care as I have nothing to hide
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Well said vikkyvik. But I think you should have bolded and italicized the word "choice" for a little added effect 
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