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Relocation Of Phoenix Coyotes NHL Franchise  
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3224 times:

In the Phoenix Coyotes soap opera, looks like Seattle is back in the mix:

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...-and-nhl-might-come-138836169.html

Citizens of Quebec City, which used to have what is now the Colorado Avalanche franchise, seem to think it is inevitable the NHL will return -- and that the Feds will chip in $200M or so for a new building. While Quebec would be a viable franchise, NHL is not going to move Phoenix on the promise of a new building, they are going to have to see shovels in the ground at least, if not a finished building, before this happens. Looks like Seattle might beat them to it. I think Vancouver (and likely Calgary and Edmonton) would be highly approving a move to Seattle.

More generally, on the overall "southern strategy" of the NHL, a recent trip by Winnipeg to Miami, published attendance was >16,000 Winnipeg reporters at the game estimated the number of people actually there was about 8,000. So were those other tickets actually sold ? I still maintain that the Panthers are probably the next domino in the franchise relocation ballet. NY Islanders come after that, although not a southern-based team. Many hockey reporters in Canada feel the Isles will wind up in Toronto. There are plans advancing for an 18,000 seat arena in Markham, just slightly north of TO.


Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFingerLakerAv8r From United States of America, joined May 2011, 259 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3174 times:

I would love to see the NHL back in YQB but there are many more larger markets that would probably do better.

Two teams in YYZ?? Haven't they suffered enough with the one they got??? LOL


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11657 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3135 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter):
published attendance was >16,000 Winnipeg reporters at the game estimated the number of people actually there was about 8,000.

In the published attendance, some places count all season ticket holders whether they were in attendance or not.

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter):
I still maintain that the Panthers are probably the next domino in the franchise relocation ballet.

Panthers seems like a logical loss. I don't understand, though, why Seattle would get a team. Phil Knight, IIRC, had Rose Garden built in Portland specifically for an NHL team to share with the Blazers. Plus, the Winter Classic could be played at Jeld-Wen Field (home of Timbers Soccer). The ice would already be there in the winter, with Portland's horrid ice storms!

I think a team should go back to Canada. Yes, Quebec City would be a great choice. Or maybe Hamilton?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3645 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

Ice hockey in the desert is just stupid. Even in San Jose, it's ridiculous. Then the season goes on and on and on, the playoffs come and more teams make the playoffs than don't. Winning records not required. They have over saturated their market.

User currently online4holer From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 3017 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3121 times:

I'm a big hockey fan living in (east) PHX. If the Penguins play here I try to go, but that's the only game I'm willing to drive 50 miles across town to go to. Seriously, the Glendale sports district is closer to Wickenburg than to my place in Gilbert. Just a horrid decision to put the already shaky hockey team that far away from it's primary fan base well living well east of the I-17. So the whole town considers them already gone.
Where to? I'm an American, but i love tradition. Put 'em north of the border.



Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7175 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3100 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter):
16,000 Winnipeg reporters at the game estimated the number of people actually there was about 8,000.

Season tickets, as long as the tickets were purchased that is the most important thing to the team.

The Panthers this year rank 20th in attendance and for the whole season last year rank 22nd out of 30. 81% filled last year with 87% this year with the Panthers doing fairly well this year. PHX is dead last in attendance.

Quoting connies4ever (Thread starter):
I still maintain that the Panthers are probably the next domino in the franchise relocation ballet.

Though it has been a little bit of a surprise the Panthers have lasted so long down in the Miami area. They are not really in Miami a good 25miles north of the city, I have not heard much about the team moving. They have a great arena and a decent dedicated following. Islanders, and Coyotes would be first IMO and maybe even some others according to attendance stats.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3101 times:

Quoting FingerLakerAv8r (Reply 1):
Two teams in YYZ?? Haven't they suffered enough with the one they got??? LOL

The Maple Leafs are (this year perhaps being an exception) not really a hockey team, they're a vehicle for MLSE to make a whack of money. If there was another Toronto team maybe they'd actually have to field something decent - again, this year perhaps being an exception. But they still have to make the playoffs, although it is looking better for them.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 2):
I think a team should go back to Canada. Yes, Quebec City would be a great choice. Or maybe Hamilton?

I'll go out on a limb and say Hamilton will NEVER get an NHL franchise. YQB first option, Kitchener-Waterloo second.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 3):
They have over saturated their market.

No argument. Best thing that could happen would be some type of contraction, at least two teams, perhaps four.

Quoting 4holer (Reply 4):
Just a horrid decision to put the already shaky hockey team that far away from it's primary fan base well living well east of the I-17.

I absolutely agree. If an NHL calibre arena had been built in Phoenix proper, the team might be viable. Might. Phoenix for hockey is best placed in the American League. Bring back the Roadrunners !



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3100 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 2):
I don't understand, though, why Seattle would get a team.

Rumor is that the person pitching this to Seattle wants to bring the Sacramento Kings basketball team with them and play in a new arena somewhere south of downtown. Land has already been bought where they want to build it.

The problem Seattle has always had getting an NHL team is that Key Arena is too small and it's an old building. Personally, I could care less about an NBA team coming back here, but if they are able to bring an NHL team here I'd go. The minor league teams in the area do fairly well and I know a lot of people that make the trip up to Vancouver to watch the Canucks.

That said, Quebec City seems like a more natural fit than Seattle for a team.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4278 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3080 times:

I'm surprised that a few posters have suggested relocating the Isles. The problem with the Isles isn't location, lack of a fan base or lack of success in the past--remember, they won four consecutive Stanley Cups in 1980-1983 seasons and were a force into the early 1990s. Their biggest problems have been incompetent ownership and GMs. If they had any kind of management team in place they'd be doing well out on the Island. But if they moved to Brooklyn and shared the new arena with the Nets, I'd be ok with that.

As for the 'yotes, though, moving them to Quebec could help ease realignment. Kansas City has been hammering for a team for well over a decade. They'll get one eventually. And Seattle should probably have one already. As should Milwaukee.

The problems with those locations: 1) Quebec doesn't have a good arena ready to go and may have trouble drawing fans at stadiums outside Eastern Canada and the Northeast; 2) Kansas City, for all their desire, still sits in the middle of the country and has little connection with hockey--not that that stopped places like Columbus and Nashville from getting teams; 3) Seattle doesn't have an arena ready and could face opposition from Vancouver because of local tv rights issues; 4) ditto for Milwaukee in relation to Chicago.

I think those are the four likliest cities for a franchise to move to, and in that order. Milwaukee, in some ways, brings the most to the table in terms of rivalry considerations--they have natural rivalries with Chicago, Minnesota and Detroit, and it wouldn't take much doing to get one started with St. Louis--outside of the traditional Quebec-Montreal, Quebec-Toronto, Quebec-Boston rivalries. Seattle has the largest market, and that could outweigh any concerns Vancouver may have. Plus it could be a great rivalry. Kansas City has offered the moon to get an NHL team. And they will get one eventually. But I don't think it is their time yet.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3062 times:

Quoting texan (Reply 8):
The problems with those locations: 1) Quebec doesn't have a good arena ready to go and may have trouble drawing fans at stadiums outside Eastern Canada and the Northeast; 2) Kansas City, for all their desire, still sits in the middle of the country and has little connection with hockey--not that that stopped places like Columbus and Nashville from getting teams; 3) Seattle doesn't have an arena ready and could face opposition from Vancouver because of local tv rights issues; 4) ditto for Milwaukee in relation to Chicago.

At least here in Seattle the project won't pencil being solely a NHL arena. I would guess that's probably the same problem other cities will have if they don't have another tenant. From what they're reporting here the Sacramento Kings have until March 1 to come up with a viable proposal to build an arena there and the Maloof's who own the team are in financial trouble leading everyone here to think the NBA might come back as part of a package deal.

In 2006 Seattle voters approved an initiative that says the city must make a profit on any investment it makes in a sports arena. It will be interesting if the city circumvents that initiative to try and get a team here.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3049 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 7):
That said, Quebec City seems like a more natural fit than Seattle for a team.

It all comes down to building the building.. Winnipeg did that well in advance of the NHL coming here as part of the overall strategy to bring the NHL back. In the interim, the AHL team (Manitoba Moose, was almost the name of the NHL franchise) was there and drew 7-8,000 per game. Quebec really has to do the same thing.

Quoting texan (Reply 8):
I'm surprised that a few posters have suggested relocating the Isles.

Widely discussed in Canadian media. The Isles are hemoraghing where they are. I'd agree management and coaching have been issues, but the current building is just not up to it anymore.

Quoting texan (Reply 8):
3) Seattle doesn't have an arena ready and could face opposition from Vancouver because of local tv rights issues;

Seattle is outside of Vancouver's "territorial rights" limit, so I don't see a conflict. And, the American teams to my knowledge do not share in Canadian TV revenues.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 9):
In 2006 Seattle voters approved an initiative that says the city must make a profit on any investment it makes in a sports arena. It will be interesting if the city circumvents that initiative to try and get a team here.

Or, perhaps Chris Hansen will use HIS OWN MONEY.    I know this concept is radical for Americans.  Wow! It never stops amazing me that these kajillionaire NFL/NHL/NBA/MLB team owners in the US, perhaps amongst the most succesful capitalist around, want local and state governments to build a building for them and let them use it essentially free. That's why LA currently does not have an NFL franchise, the city council basically told the Rams owners to piss up a rope.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3034 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 10):
Or, perhaps Chris Hansen will use HIS OWN MONEY. I know this concept is radical for Americans. Wow! It never stops amazing me that these kajillionaire NFL/NHL/NBA/MLB team owners in the US, perhaps amongst the most succesful capitalist around, want local and state governments to build a building for them and let them use it essentially free.

I don't disagree with you. Washington taxpayers have spent hundreds of millions of dollars towards the construction of Quest (aka CenturyLink) field, Safeco field, and remodeling Key Arena as well as retiring the dept of the Kingdome and even built a freeway access to the football stadium.

It seems too easy for legislators to up the hotel, motel and rental car taxes to attempt to pay for these things all that does is force people visiting the city to spend their money elsewhere or not come at all.

In 1995 a vote to build a new baseball stadium failed...the project ended up getting funded by the public anyway through over $400 million in state bonds. This is all about the owners. Which is why any new stadium will have to be paid for by private funds here in Seattle. As I said, I could care less about the NBA but I would love to take my kid to a NHL game that doesn't require me to drive 3 1/2 hours north to Vancouver.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4278 posts, RR: 52
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 10):
Seattle is outside of Vancouver's "territorial rights" limit, so I don't see a conflict. And, the American teams to my knowledge do not share in Canadian TV revenues.

Gotcha, didn't know that!

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 10):
Widely discussed in Canadian media. The Isles are hemoraghing where they are. I'd agree management and coaching have been issues, but the current building is just not up to it anymore.

I'm not sure the NHL would let them move with the same ownership group, though. Moving would just allow the same owneres to hemmorhage cash in another locale, but after getting a lump sum payment to increase the franchise value from another city. The exception I can see there is Brooklyn since it is in the same metro area.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 9):
At least here in Seattle the project won't pencil being solely a NHL arena.

True and a very good point. Quebec and Seattle are probably still the two front runners.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3004 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 11):
. Which is why any new stadium will have to be paid for by private funds here in Seattle. As I said, I could care less about the NBA but I would love to take my kid to a NHL game that doesn't require me to drive 3 1/2 hours north to Vancouver.

Which shows the good sense of the public in Seattle. Always liked the city, an uncle spent 5 years at McChord AFB outside Tacoma, so I have had a few opportunities to spend time in SEA.

Quoting texan (Reply 12):
I'm not sure the NHL would let them move with the same ownership group, though. Moving would just allow the same owneres to hemmorhage cash in another locale, but after getting a lump sum payment to increase the franchise value from another city. The exception I can see there is Brooklyn since it is in the same metro area.

Agree it would be new ownership, just as Atlanta-to-Winnipeg (which btw is a huge screaming financial success). But there's a shitload of moneyed people in TO. Not sure about Brooklyn, when the Isles were created, they had to pay a rights fee to the Rangers. If they moved closer to the Rangers would they have to pay it again ?



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4278 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2977 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 13):
Agree it would be new ownership, just as Atlanta-to-Winnipeg (which btw is a huge screaming financial success). But there's a shitload of moneyed people in TO. Not sure about Brooklyn, when the Isles were created, they had to pay a rights fee to the Rangers. If they moved closer to the Rangers would they have to pay it again ?

I'd think that since the Isles are considered part of the local market already that moving to Brooklyn wouldn't be too difficult. But that's just an opinion based on almost no facts. And the only reason I have Brooklyn in there is if the same ownership group remains. As you said, there would pretty much have to be new ownership to move the team a good distance away. And the Winnipeg move was brilliant.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2322 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2978 times:

Quoting texan (Reply 8):
I'm surprised that a few posters have suggested relocating the Isles.

The biggest problem with the Isles right now is their building. And unfortunately, it has become a political football (puck?). Charles Wang, the owner, wanted to build a new arena on his own, as part of authority to develop the surrounding area. That was stopped by the local town board, who were concerned about density of the proposed development. Last summer, the county executive tried to push through a publicly financed plan, but managed to alienate enough people that the proposal was voted down. Wang is saying he won't keep the team in the Coliseum after their current lease expires in 2015, and it will be difficult to get anything approved and built before then.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 10):
Manitoba Moose

My favorite team name ever!

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 10):
It never stops amazing me that these kajillionaire NFL/NHL/NBA/MLB team owners in the US, perhaps amongst the most succesful capitalist around, want local and state governments to build a building for them and let them use it essentially free.

That's how they become kajillionaire team owners...



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11657 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2974 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 3):
Ice hockey in the desert is just stupid. Even in San Jose, it's ridiculous.

San Jose actually has a good sized fan base. I live about 100 miles away to the north and I still hear more people here talk about the Sharks than the Golden State Warriors. These days, climate has little, if anything, to do with it. The people of Phoenix are just not into hockey. Like in Portland. There were a few hunderd people that were outraged when the baseball team left. Twice. But, there were a few thousand who really wanted to expand the soccer team.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 3):
Then the season goes on and on and on, the playoffs come and more teams make the playoffs than don't.

Sounds like basketball. Or, except the playoffs comment, baseball.

Quoting texan (Reply 8):
Seattle doesn't have an arena ready and could face opposition from Vancouver because of local tv rights issues;
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 10):
the American teams to my knowledge do not share in Canadian TV revenues.

The only time any Canadian teams are ever shown on American TV is the playoffs or when they are playing in an American city. The Canucks have never been shown on Seattle TV. When I lived in Seattle, I had to listen to games on CKNW.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 9):
It will be interesting if the city circumvents that initiative to try and get a team here.

They will. They got King County citizens to pay for three stadiums in the past 15 years.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2956 times:

Quoting moose135 (Reply 15):
Charles Wang, the owner, wanted to build a new arena on his own, as part of authority to develop the surrounding area. That was stopped by the local town board, who were concerned about density of the proposed development.

I think this is exactly the problem Steve Ellman ran into when he moved the original Jets to Phoenix. The arena they were playing in is the Suns and isn't really good for hockey. Ironically, one of Ellman's companies (name escapes me) gained control of the Portage Place Shopping Centre in Winnipeg......which is right across the street from the MTS Centre......where the current Jets play. Life is strange sometimes. Ellman was once quoted as saying "If I knew how much I was going to lose on hockey in Phoenix, I would have left them in Winnipeg".

Quoting moose135 (Reply 15):
Wang is saying he won't keep the team in the Coliseum after their current lease expires in 2015, and it will be difficult to get anything approved and built before then.

Agree, I don't think there is enough time to have a new building in place in Nassau County. The Brooklyn option might work (Barclay Centre ??) but from what I've read it's even smaller than MTS Centre (cap 15,004).

Quoting moose135 (Reply 15):
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 10):
Manitoba Moose

My favorite team name ever!

I would have been OK with keeping the franchise name, but the fan base wanted old name back. Also, with new logo, colours, etc., they get to sell a whack of new swag. Further, the AHL affiliate is in St John's Nfld, where moose are a real problem, so Newfoundland Moose would have been a natural. Instead they're stuck with St John's IceCaps, whatever that stands for.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 16):
The people of Phoenix are just not into hockey.

If Ellman's proposal had gone ahead, fighting chance they could have kept their head above water.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2322 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2953 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 17):
Also, with new logo, colours, etc., they get to sell a whack of new swag.

With a CF-18, no less!

http://3.cdn.nhle.com/jets/v2/ext/images/wallpapers/wallpaper_logo_1280x1024.jpg



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2934 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 13):
Agree it would be new ownership, just as Atlanta-to-Winnipeg (which btw is a huge screaming financial success). But there's a shitload of moneyed people in TO. Not sure about Brooklyn, when the Isles were created, they had to pay a rights fee to the Rangers. If they moved closer to the Rangers would they have to pay it again ?
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 17):

Agree, I don't think there is enough time to have a new building in place in Nassau County. The Brooklyn option might work (Barclay Centre ??) but from what I've read it's even smaller than MTS Centre (cap 15,004).

Brooklyn is not a viable option, as the design of Barclays Center doesn't suit NHL hockey, as the capacity is 14,500. Had the original Frank Gehry design not been shelved for the cheaper design, then we could seriously talk about it as a venue for the Isles. Now if they could manage to get a deal in place to build a new arena for the Isles, perhaps Barclays could be a temporary venue for the team.

The Isles would not be forced to pay a territory fee to the Rangers since NYC is considered the territory for both clubs (When the Devils came to NJ, they had to pay a territory fee to the Rangers, the Isles and the Flyers.).

The problem is that the area cannot support three NHL teams. Haven't the Devils been having issues with attendance as well?

As someone who was affected by the relocation of the Thrashers to Winnipeg, I'm beginning to see that move as getting rid of a bad ownership group that had no real interest in operating an NHL franchise. The fact that the Board Of Governors approved the sale and relocation unanimously also seems to in retrospect support that as well. They knew that nobody was interesting in buying the Thrashers and keeping them in Atlanta unless the entire operation was sold to them (Hawks, Thrashers, and Phillips Arena operating rights) and Atlanta Spirit wasn't actively accepting bids on the entire operation (Several months after selling the Thrashers, they did have an agreement to sell the Hawks and the arena rights, but the deal fell apart due to financial concerns of the potential new owner.).

The Coyotes are pretty much done in desert after this season. There's no way the City Of Glendale covers any losses for next season. The Coyotes came within 10 minutes of being sold to True North and returned to Winnipeg, as the City Of Glendale nearly missed the deadline to agree to cover losses for the upcoming season and the NHL already had TNSE waiting in the wings to buy them. Since the City of Glendale came through, the NHL gave the green light for Atlanta Spirit and True North to open negotiations and the deal was made rather swiftly.

I don't think they're be relocated north of the border, as the Winnipeg matter was Gary Bettman throwing a bone to the fans in Canada. Quebec City isn't getting a team until they get a new arena built, simple as that. Quebecor is the company that is interested in putting a team back in Quebec City.. They're a big company, they can pay for an arena if they want a team that badly.

Here's my picks for where the Coyotes end up:

Houston (Even though they would likely have to compensate the Wild since they would have to relocate the Aeros.)
Oklahoma City (They were among the candidates for an expansion franchise during the last series of expansion. They lost to Columbus.).
Kansas City (Although the lackluster attendance at the preseason games played there may work against them.)
Atlanta (Yes, I said Atlanta. But I don't think they're an option as long as Atlanta Spirit controls Philips Arena, and the only other venue in town is too small for NHL games [The Arena @ Gwinnett Center seats 11,355 for hockey.]. Atlanta is a major media market and the decline in attendance was not due to the on-ice performance, rather it was due to the owners.).


Seattle is not an option until they have an arena that is suitable for the NHL (KeyArena seats 15,177 for hockey and the sight lines for hockey are not ideal due to the renovation in the 90s.). The Pacific Northwest could use another team in either Seattle or Portland.


User currently offlineczbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 973 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2904 times:

Quoting FingerLakerAv8r (Reply 1):
Two teams in YYZ?? Haven't they suffered enough with the one they got??? LOL

Since the Leafs are a lost cause, Toronto will do ANYTHING to get a chance at a Stanley Cup. Even bring in a whole new team! lol

Sorry, slightly off-colour joke comes to mind....

How are the Toronto Maple Leafs like a plain, non-protective jock-strap?

Lots of support... but no Cup.


User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2892 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 19):
Oklahoma City (They were among the candidates for an expansion franchise during the last series of expansion. They lost to Columbus.).

I'm pretty sure if an NHL team relocates to Oklahoma City over a bid to get a NHL/NBA arena built here in Seattle after the Sonic left for OKC....this town will run out of pitchforks.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11657 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 2860 times:

Quoting czbbflier (Reply 20):
slightly off-colour joke comes to mind....

One along the same lines, but not off-color:

The Devil is doing his devil stuff in Hades. All of a sudden, a blizzard slams in. He runs around screaming and trying to figure out what is going on. One of his minions stops him and says "Oh, that. The Leafs won The Cup."



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinescrubbsywg From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2851 times:

Quoting moose135 (Reply 18):
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 17):
Also, with new logo, colours, etc., they get to sell a whack of new swag.

With a CF-18, no less!


The sheer amount of Jets gear people have is amazing. I've been out and about on game days and what not and it is just insane how much stuff they have sold.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2825 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 19):
As someone who was affected by the relocation of the Thrashers to Winnipeg, I'm beginning to see that move as getting rid of a bad ownership group that had no real interest in operating an NHL franchise. The fact that the Board Of Governors approved the sale and relocation unanimously also seems to in retrospect support that as well. They knew that nobody was interesting in buying the Thrashers and keeping them in Atlanta unless the entire operation was sold to them (Hawks, Thrashers, and Phillips Arena operating rights) and Atlanta Spirit wasn't actively accepting bids on the entire operation (Several months after selling the Thrashers, they did have an agreement to sell the Hawks and the arena rights, but the deal fell apart due to financial concerns of the potential new owner.).

I agree that if Atlanta had had a strong ownership group then the Thrashers would still be playing.

Quoting czbbflier (Reply 20):
How are the Toronto Maple Leafs like a plain, non-protective jock-strap?

Lots of support... but no Cup.

ROTFLMAO !!!

Quoting scrubbsywg (Reply 23):
The sheer amount of Jets gear people have is amazing. I've been out and about on game days and what not and it is just insane how much stuff they have sold.

I'm not even in Winnipeg (yet...this spring) but I have a Tee and a hat. I'm actually not crazy about the logo, but it is a reminder to those in Montreal that we haven't forgotten (or forgiven) about the CF-18 maintenance contract...

Now, if they could only figure out how to put the puck in the net !



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3375 posts, RR: 9
Reply 25, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2848 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 10):
Or, perhaps Chris Hansen will use HIS OWN MONEY.    I know this concept is radical for Americans.   It never stops amazing me that these kajillionaire NFL/NHL/NBA/MLB team owners in the US, perhaps amongst the most succesful capitalist around, want local and state governments to build a building for them and let them use it essentially free. That's why LA currently does not have an NFL franchise, the city council basically told the Rams owners to piss up a rope.

It's the case of smart fans being punished discussed by ESPN radio host Colin Cowherd. At the end of last NFL season this came up regarding the Vikings and the potential that they might move out of Minnesota because the taxpayers there do not want to fund a replacement for the Metrodome. Because of that they may lose a team that gets pretty good support in what is a good division.

If you can show that tax-payer money can benefit the local economy then you would get more support for it but often these new stadiums end up becoming massive losers and will just be rich men's playgrounds. Also especially in this economy people will spend less on attending sporting events and will make the decision to let the team go.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 26, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2836 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 25):
If you can show that tax-payer money can benefit the local economy then you would get more support for it but often these new stadiums end up becoming massive losers and will just be rich men's playgrounds. Also especially in this economy people will spend less on attending sporting events and will make the decision to let the team go.

Quite. Particularly for football stadia. Football, whether Aussie rules, or Canadian/American, has only a small number of dates per year, so the stadium operators need to get creative in how they operate the thing, else it becomes the proverbial white elephant. In the case of the NFL in the US, most team revenue comes from television anyway, so I question the need for a full "bells and whistles" stadium. All you need is a decent place to sit, good sightlines, and adequate services. For example, the new football stadium in Dallas cost about $1B. In the CFL in Canada, most team revenue is from ticket sales, so you really do need to make the overall experience a good one.

For arenas, OTOH, generally in the US the philosophy is have both a hockey and a basketball team occupy it, to keep the place reasonably busy. And if one company owns the building and both teams, it's a winner - unless management are idiots, which does happen (see: Atlanta Spirit). In Canada, only Toronto has this situation at the Air Canada Centre. All other major buildings have a hockey team only, and therefore building management need to be creative.

In Winnipeg, True North Sports & Entertainment own the MTS Centre and the Winnipeg Jets, so a good fit there. But a real key is that the building is busy about 280 nights per year: concerts, truck rallies, next Saturday they have "professional" bull riding. MTS Centre is, IIRC, about the 5th busiest major building in North America on that basis. it was built as a public-private partnership, with public money about 1/3 of cost. For the downtown activity and tax revenue it has generated, I think this qualifies as good public investment.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinejfk69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2858 times:

Quoting moose135 (Reply 15):
The biggest problem with the Isles right now is their building. And unfortunately, it has become a political football (puck?). Charles Wang, the owner, wanted to build a new arena on his own, as part of authority to develop the surrounding area. That was stopped by the local town board, who were concerned about density of the proposed development. Last summer, the county executive tried to push through a publicly financed plan, but managed to alienate enough people that the proposal was voted down. Wang is saying he won't keep the team in the Coliseum after their current lease expires in 2015, and it will be difficult to get anything approved and built before then.

You beat me to it and explained it very well. I am a Nassau County Resident and season ticket holder since 2001 (Remember the Maple leaf series?) The whole issue is obviously the building and the politics. The Light house was shot down by the republicans and the recent tax referendum this past summer was killed by the democrats. Charles Wang has said that he will honor the current lease and play until 2015....but not a day past.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 19):
Brooklyn is not a viable option, as the design of Barclays Center doesn't suit NHL hockey, as the capacity is 14,500. Had the original Frank Gehry design not been shelved for the cheaper design, then we could seriously talk about it as a venue for the Isles. Now if they could manage to get a deal in place to build a new arena for the Isles, perhaps Barclays could be a temporary venue for the team.

The Isles would not be forced to pay a territory fee to the Rangers since NYC is considered the territory for both clubs (When the Devils came to NJ, they had to pay a territory fee to the Rangers, the Isles and the Flyers.).

The problem is that the area cannot support three NHL teams. Haven't the Devils been having issues with attendance as well?

The Isles and Devils announced that they will play a pre-season game in the Barclays center this coming October. Approx 24 Hours later, Ed Mangano, a top nassau County exec came out for the first time in more than 3 months stating that plans are in the works to start with developers to work on the Nassau Coliseum site. It was a wake up call that the Isles may finally move out of Nassau. I can promise you that neither political party wants to be the ones responsible for losing the Isles so something may end up getting worked out.

The Barclays center, though small for hockey (about 14500) would be a very viable option. The isles average about 11k a game but the biggest issue has been lack of Public transportation. Brooklyn would fix that with the subways and LIRR about a block away. The fans are there.......The future is there......we just need a new building.


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4278 posts, RR: 6
Reply 28, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2839 times:

The Barclays Center should have been looked at from the start for the reasons the above posters have said. While it would be a small arena for Hockey, the public transport access to the area is far superior to Nassau and I think would be able to attract more fans than Nassau, which in my opinion is the worst building in the whole NHL.

As far as locations for the Coyotes to move to. In my opinion it is important for the league to move to a place where Hockey is known and has a better chance of succeeding. Quebec City is always going to be talked about, due to its history. I am not sure if Le Collissee has been replaced since the Nordiques moved to Colorado or not though. If you are talking about other cities in Canada, Hamilton has the Copps Colliseum which is NHL ready now, and I also believe Halifax has one as well.

If you are looking at US cities, Seattle would seem to make a lot of sense, but the problem with Seattle is any team playing in Key Arena is going to have the same issues that led to the Sonics NBA team moving (Aside from Clay Bennett).
Also, it is unclear what kind of hockey base lies in Seattle. Kansas City has an NHL ready arena in the Sprint Center, but again, is there enough of a Fan Base to attract an NHL team? Hartford sometimes gets talked about after losing the Whalers, and while there is a huge hockey fan base in the area they have two problems. One being that their location also has a lot of Bruins and Rangers fans that exist, which would make it tricky for them to develop a Whalers fan base, and the second is that the Civic Center is a pretty old building and would not be able to sustain a team long term. Local politicians I believe are looking to build a replacement with or without a new team in any event. One last city I will throw out is Milwaukee. Wisconsin has a huge hockey fan base, and the Bradley Center is already an NHL ready facility. I think it would be unlikely, but WI is very loyal to good sports teams and with a base of hockey fans as well, it could work.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 29, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2805 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 28):
The Barclays Center should have been looked at from the start for the reasons the above posters have said. While it would be a small arena for Hockey, the public transport access to the area is far superior to Nassau and I think would be able to attract more fans than Nassau, which in my opinion is the worst building in the whole NHL.

Well, MTS Centre in Winnipeg is currently the smallest venue, but the smallness in part drives fan appetite -- I'd better get tickets now as they won't be available later. It also allows the owners to demand a higher ticket price. Winnipeg's average is $85/seat - 5th highest in the league. Do the math and that's about $53M in ticket revenue alone. I know, I paid $270 for 2 on New Year's Eve (Leafs).

Quoting apodino (Reply 28):
As far as locations for the Coyotes to move to. In my opinion it is important for the league to move to a place where Hockey is known and has a better chance of succeeding. Quebec City is always going to be talked about, due to its history. I am not sure if Le Collissee has been replaced since the Nordiques moved to Colorado or not though. If you are talking about other cities in Canada, Hamilton has the Copps Colliseum which is NHL ready now, and I also believe Halifax has one as well.

Le Colisee has not been replaced, it's about 60 years old if memory serves. No new building in sight, just talk. The locals want the Feds to put up about $200M to help build a new rink.
Copps Coliseum is not NHL ready and the projected reno costs are $150-180M. A new building on the north side of Toronto (in Markham) is far more likely.
Halifax has a smallish building, I believe about 10,000.
Only other buildings in Canada I know of that might qualify are the Pacific Coliseum in Vancouver (cap 16,000), where the Canucks used to play, and Saskatchewan Place in Saskatoon (cap 12,500).

Quoting apodino (Reply 28):
Also, it is unclear what kind of hockey base lies in Seattle. Kansas City has an NHL ready arena in the Sprint Center, but again, is there enough of a Fan Base to attract an NHL team? Hartford sometimes gets talked about after losing the Whalers, and while there is a huge hockey fan base in the area they have two problems. One being that their location also has a lot of Bruins and Rangers fans that exist, which would make it tricky for them to develop a Whalers fan base, and the second is that the Civic Center is a pretty old building and would not be able to sustain a team long term. Local politicians I believe are looking to build a replacement with or without a new team in any event. One last city I will throw out is Milwaukee. Wisconsin has a huge hockey fan base, and the Bradley Center is already an NHL ready facility. I think it would be unlikely, but WI is very loyal to good sports teams and with a base of hockey fans as well, it could work.

Fair comment about Seattle but I believe it would work, Key Arena being a temp home for perhaps 2 years. KC has the building but they lost an NHL franchise once (now the Devils). Good points about Hartford's 'competition'. Milwaukee has supported the Admirals in the 'I' and the AHL very well and might be the winner by default. As for the Bradley Center, does it have the requisite number of corporate boxes yadda yadda ? Actually, for the Jets season opener I had the opportunity to sit in a corporate box (with the g.f., she was mightily impressed with being waited on) and if I could afford one on my own, I'd do it.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 30, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2810 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 28):
The Barclays Center should have been looked at from the start for the reasons the above posters have said. While it would be a small arena for Hockey, the public transport access to the area is far superior to Nassau and I think would be able to attract more fans than Nassau, which in my opinion is the worst building in the whole NHL.

The original design for the building (designed by famed architect Frank Gehry) would have seated closer to what the average NHL building seats, but was scrapped because his design had a price tag of $1 billion (What they went is slated to cost $800 million.).

To revisit the earlier question about having to pay the Rangers a territory fee, upon further research, the Islanders can move anywhere on Long Island, including Brooklyn and Queens.

Quoting apodino (Reply 28):
Also, it is unclear what kind of hockey base lies in Seattle. Kansas City has an NHL ready arena in the Sprint Center, but again, is there enough of a Fan Base to attract an NHL team?

Based off of the attendance at the Islanders exhibition games in previous seasons, no. However, they did sell out an preseason game this season between the Kings and the Pens, so perhaps there is potential in that market. More than likely, they'll end up with an NBA team instead (The NBA may be moving the Hornets there, and there are rumors that the Kings could be returning there if they don't get an arena situation in Sacramento settled soon.).

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 26):
In Winnipeg, True North Sports & Entertainment own the MTS Centre and the Winnipeg Jets, so a good fit there. But a real key is that the building is busy about 280 nights per year: concerts, truck rallies, next Saturday they have "professional" bull riding. MTS Centre is, IIRC, about the 5th busiest major building in North America on that basis. it was built as a public-private partnership, with public money about 1/3 of cost. For the downtown activity and tax revenue it has generated, I think this qualifies as good public investment.

Isn't this the similar type arrangement they're trying to put together in Edmonton in order to replace Rexall Place?

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 26):

Quite. Particularly for football stadia. Football, whether Aussie rules, or Canadian/American, has only a small number of dates per year, so the stadium operators need to get creative in how they operate the thing, else it becomes the proverbial white elephant. In the case of the NFL in the US, most team revenue comes from television anyway, so I question the need for a full "bells and whistles" stadium. All you need is a decent place to sit, good sightlines, and adequate services. For example, the new football stadium in Dallas cost about $1B. In the CFL in Canada, most team revenue is from ticket sales, so you really do need to make the overall experience a good one.

Here in Atlanta, the Georgia Dome gets used for a lot of different events during the year. Besides it's use as a football venue (NFL, college, and high school), it also has hosted basketball games (SEC Tournament, NCAA Tournament), soccer exhibitions, monster truck rallies, motocross, rodeos, concerts, conventions, and pro wrestling, Of course domed stadiums are essentially giant versions of the typical arena and tend to hold events in which the greater seating capacity is needed. There is talk of building a new stadium for the Falcons in the same area as the Georgia Dome, but depending upon what type of stadium is built (The Falcons have a preference for an open air stadium, and the state would prefer one with a retractable roof [They have even presented a proposal for a major upgrade to the Georgia Dome that would involve a retractable roof, but the Falcons want a new building.].). The Georgia Dome was built using bonds that are partially paid for via a hotel/motel tax (the Falcon pay some as well) and last year, the tax that was levied to fund the Georgia Dome was extended from 2020 to 2050 in preparations to fund a new stadium. Philips Arena was built via bonds financed via a rental car tax.

Many MLB venues have significant periods of inactivity as well. Even with a minimum of 81 home games, you do have stretches where a team may be on the road for a week or so. I know that at Turner Field, they've hosted college baseball games between Georgia and Georgia Tech while the Braves were on the road. It's been used for a few concerts here and there over the years as well. Some groups have used the building for events ranging from job fairs to beer festivals.


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3448 posts, RR: 2
Reply 31, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2794 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 2):
Phil Knight, IIRC, had Rose Garden built in Portland specifically for an NHL team to share with the Blazers.

That was Paul Allen (cofounder Microsoft, Blazers and Seahawks owner) Named it after his Mom.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineFighterPilot From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1395 posts, RR: 22
Reply 32, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2793 times:

Quoting scrubbsywg (Reply 23):
The sheer amount of Jets gear people have is amazing. I've been out and about on game days and what not and it is just insane how much stuff they have sold.

I just moved here from Northwestern Ontario. I couldn't believe how many people I've seen wearing Jets gear. Not going to lie though, I'm one of them. I recently bought a hat and had bought a shirt about a month ago. I found the Jets to be a pretty big team in even Northwestern Ontario.

Cal   



*Insert Sound Of GE90 Spooling Up Here*
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 33, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2756 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 30):
The NBA may be moving the Hornets there, and there are rumors that the Kings could be returning there if they don't get an arena situation in Sacramento settled soon

I used to think the possibility of the Kings moving was MUCH larger than the Hornets. In fact it now looks like Sac will move to Anaheim for next year.
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/03/16/kings-relocation.ap/index.html
So perhaps NO will wind up in SEA.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 30):
Isn't this the similar type arrangement they're trying to put together in Edmonton in order to replace Rexall Place?

Yes.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 30):
Here in Atlanta, the Georgia Dome gets used for a lot of different events during the year.

And therein lies it's utility: it's covered, so can be used in any weather. Mind you, makes the capital cost a lot higher.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinescrubbsywg From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2732 times:

replying to connies forever Well I am in Winnipeg and I only have a hat. I figure the 800some dollars for a share of a pair of season tickets is all I can really afford. Afterall I now have to split my ticket and merch loyalties between the bombers and jets.

As far as goals...well isn't that what everyone thought would be their issue? The jets really are still the thrashers. Asside from moving a team true north had little time to play around with player personnel. Most of the people I talk to are really giving them 2-3 years to really make some beneficial changes. Everyone in Winnipeg wants them to make the playoffs but most understand at this point it is a real tough challenge


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 35, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2709 times:

Quoting scrubbsywg (Reply 34):
As far as goals...well isn't that what everyone thought would be their issue? The jets really are still the thrashers. Asside from moving a team true north had little time to play around with player personnel. Most of the people I talk to are really giving them 2-3 years to really make some beneficial changes. Everyone in Winnipeg wants them to make the playoffs but most understand at this point it is a real tough challenge

Yeah, the upcoming home stand (6 games ?) will make or break them for the playoffs. Even if they do make it, likely they come in as the 8th place team, and will therefore play either the Rangers or the Bruins.

I played until Jr B and my take on the team is:
- too passive physically, particularly on the road;
- lines keep changing, therefore inter-personal chemistry on-ice is missing (this is on the coach, obviously);
- don't seem to get to the net enough, esp. as a 2nd attacker

OTOH, some nice things:
- Kyle Wellwood a pleasant surprise;
- Blake Wheeler, although snake-bitten around the goal, best player on the team;
- Zac Bogosian developing into a potential star
Not so nice:
- Andrew Ladd disappointing to date
- ditto Brian Little, although his game seems to be getting better lately

Trade deadline approaching: many rumours that either Oduya or Enstrom will get traded for a forward. I wouldn't miss Oduya, Enstrom reminds me of Lars-Erik Sjoberg: won't paste you into the wood, but skates very well and generally handles and moves the puck well. If he went I would expect a good quality forward in return. Apparently St Louis have been looking at them.

They're on TV in Pittsburgh Saturday, so chill the beer and get the chips ready !



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 36, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2434 times:

Well....the City of Seattle and King County just announced they'll help build a half-billion dollar NBA and NHL arena in SODO just south of downtown. Should be built in 2 years.

Maximum public funding would be $200 million, combined city and county funds, no new taxes and the financing is "supposed" to be repaid over the next 30 years through rent on the arena and tax revenue it generates, including property, sales and admissions taxes.

It actually sounds like a spectacular deal for the City. Completely different from the baseball and football stadiums. Mostly funded by private investment and the facility would be jointly owned by the city of Seattle and King County, and available for additional recreational and cultural events.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlespo...w-nba-nhl-arena-and-teams-in-sodo/   



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 37, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2418 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 33):
I used to think the possibility of the Kings moving was MUCH larger than the Hornets. In fact it now looks like Sac will move to Anaheim for next year.
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/03/16/kings-relocation.ap/index.html
So perhaps NO will wind up in SEA.

I would LOVE it if the Sonics were to make a comeback. I would rather it be an expansion team than a team moving to Seattle. I think that is the best way to go about things. Heck, lets wait a few more years for Clay Bennett to owe Seattle the $5 million (I think it was) for moving to OKC then petition to have an expansion team.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 36):
Well....the City of Seattle and King County just announced they'll help build a half-billion dollar NBA and NHL arena in SODO just south of downtown.

The State of Washington should pitch in as well.

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 36):
Should be built in 2 years.

Then now is the time to petition to the NBA for an expansion team.

BRING BACK OUR SONICS!!!!!!!!!



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 38, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 37):
The State of Washington should pitch in as well.

Why should the state pitch in any more money? Right now no public funds would be committed to the arena until NBA and NHL franchises have been secured for Seattle. Private funds cover $290 million with public funding caped at $200 million. Revenue for the facility will be generated mainly by operation of the facility, and with rent paid by the teams and by the arena operator. It doesn't include any new taxes or any money needed from the state.

After the last two arena fiascoes Initiative 91 was passed that meant that any new facility has to be profitable for the city. On the surface this proposal seems to fit that.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 39, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2397 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 38):
Why should the state pitch in any more money?

How much money did the State of Washington pitch in for Safeco and Seahawks Stadium (Qwest now CenturyLink)?

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 38):
On the surface this proposal seems to fit that.

  



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 40, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2368 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 39):
How much money did the State of Washington pitch in for Safeco and Seahawks Stadium (Qwest now CenturyLink)?

It wasn't right then and it isn't right now. Over a billion public dollars have been spent already on sports stadiums in Seattle. Hence the Initiative to restrict public financing for these projects. Besides, why should someone in Spokane or Yakima pay for a sports stadium in Seattle through State funds that they'll see no economic benefit from? Rightfully, the funds come from the City of Seattle and King County.

Anyway, the news is pitching that an NHL team would likely relocate before an NBA team. We'll see.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 41, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 40):
Besides, why should someone in Spokane or Yakima pay for a sports stadium in Seattle through State funds that they'll see no economic benefit from?

Not related to the topic, you are right.... but they are having the same problem with financing the Alaskan Way Viaduct tunnel project with the Eastern Washington folks, too!

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 40):
Anyway, the news is pitching that an NHL team would likely relocate before an NBA team. We'll see.

Isn't it just cheaper to upgrade the Seattle Thunderbirds Hockey Team to the NHL instead??



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineStuckInCA From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1961 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2362 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 33):
I used to think the possibility of the Kings moving was MUCH larger than the Hornets. In fact it now looks like Sac will move to Anaheim for next year.

That news is really too old to be useful (11 months). They may move to Anaheim, but it's hard to say.

There's a decent chance the Kings end up staying in Sacramento. If not, it feels very uncertain whether it would be Anaheim or Seattle.

Sacramento is likely to have an arena plan in place by the deadline (or thereabouts). They say it will require $85 million in funding from the Kings (Maloofs) or the NBA. Some feel that's the reason that the deal will fall apart. Others feel the Maloofs probably have that set aside for this reason. Others yet feel that this will be the impetus for the NBA 'forcing' the Maloofs to sell. Honestly, if they can't chip in that much for a brand new arena when they continue to barely meet the league minimum payroll then what business do they have owning a team?

I hope they stay. I grew up there and have been a fan since they arrived there. That said, I now live in the Seattle area... and if they have to go anywhere, it would be least disappointing if this is the place.


User currently offlinejamincan From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2329 times:

When the NHL expanded to Ottawa, they didn't have an NHL-ready arena and the Sens played at the Civic Centre (capacity ~10000) for four years until Scotiabank Place (the Palladium at the time) opened.

Is there any reason they wouldn't do the same if they had to move Phoenix? I think if they had a guarantee for a new arena in a few years, it would be better to move to a market with good potential then to move to a less attractive market that already has an arena ready.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11657 posts, RR: 15
Reply 44, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2313 times:

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 41):
Isn't it just cheaper to upgrade the Seattle Thunderbirds Hockey Team to the NHL instead??

They just built a stadium in Kent on the south side for the T-Birds. I think it holds 5000 or so.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 41):
but they are having the same problem with financing the Alaskan Way Viaduct tunnel project with the Eastern Washington folks, too!

As I recall, to get the football stadium built, they put a sales tax on only King County to pay for that place. Instead of the team or the owners paying for it. I never went to any Seahawks games. I should demand a refund from King County. I paid for something I never wanted/got to use!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29799 posts, RR: 58
Reply 45, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2286 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 6):
Phoenix for hockey is best placed in the American League. Bring back the Roadrunners !

Wheren't the Roadrunners ECHL? I seem to remember the Alaska Aces playing them

Quoting moose135 (Reply 18):
With a CF-18, no less!

Dude, that is an F-16

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 21):
I'm pretty sure if an NHL team relocates to Oklahoma City over a bid to get a NHL/NBA arena built here in Seattle after the Sonic left for OKC....this town will run out of pitchforks

Abso-freaking-loootly

Quoting apodino (Reply 28):
Also, it is unclear what kind of hockey base lies in Seattle.


I do wonder that, It was many moons ago but back when Tacoma had the Sabercats playing in the old WCHL they where pulling less then 2k heads a game. Made for an emply Tacoma-dome

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 37):
I would LOVE it if the Sonics were to make a comeback. I would rather it be an expansion team than a team moving to Seattle. I think that is the best way to go about things. Heck, lets wait a few more years for Clay Bennett to owe Seattle the $5 million (I think it was) for moving to OKC then petition to have an expansion team

Clay Bennett can go to hell. I will not root for that team at all when they are exiled to OKC. I don't care who they are playing. OKC looose!!!!

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 37):
BRING BACK OUR SONICS!!!!!!!!!
Abso-freaking-loootly

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 41):
Isn't it just cheaper to upgrade the Seattle Thunderbirds Hockey Team to the NHL instead??

Forgive me, but what league? AHL? I am more familiar with ECHL teams because that is where our Anchorage team plays.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinejamincan From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days ago) and read 2253 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 45):
Dude, that is an F-16

This


looks a lot more like this
http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/usa/mcdonnel_hornet.gif

than this.



It looks nothing like an F-16.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11657 posts, RR: 15
Reply 47, posted (2 years 7 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2225 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 45):
Forgive me, but what league? AHL? I am more familiar with ECHL teams because that is where our Anchorage team plays.

Thunderbirds are minor league Western Hockey League. OHL, QMJHL and WHL send their best teams to play for Memorial Cup. The Portland Winterhawks have won a number of times. My Tri-City Americans are always strong in the regular season but usually fizzle out in the playoffs. The American Division of WHL has Tri-City (Kennewick, Pasco, Richland WA) Americans, Spokane Chiefs, Portland Winterhawks, Seattle Thunderbirds and Everett... umm... Grizzlies?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinecanoecarrier From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2839 posts, RR: 12
Reply 48, posted (2 years 7 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2215 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 47):
Seattle Thunderbirds and Everett... umm... Grizzlies?

Silvertips. They play in a pretty nice facility up in downtown Everett. I haven't had a chance to see the Thunderbirds yet I've been to several 'Tips games. I think they play in the same league as Kelowna.



The beatings will continue until morale improves
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2322 posts, RR: 10
Reply 49, posted (2 years 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2164 times:

Quoting jamincan (Reply 46):
It looks nothing like an F-16.

Agreed - and since Winnipeg is a Canadian team, and you know, they fly F-18s in Canada, and not F-16s, I wouldn't expect an F-16 on the logo.



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11657 posts, RR: 15
Reply 50, posted (2 years 7 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2158 times:

Quoting canoecarrier (Reply 48):
I think they play in the same league as Kelowna.

Yes, same league and same conference. Kelowna is BC Division. http://www.whl.ca/standings/show/ls_season/238/subtype/0



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2074 times:

Bring back the Hartford Whalers!


2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlinevapar8 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 69 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2057 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 17):

But Steve Ellman did NOT move the Jets. He bought them after they moved. Richard Burke and Steven Gluckstern bought and moved the team. Richard Burke still owns the Ice Den.

The move to Glendale killed any chance they had.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 53, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days ago) and read 2045 times:

Quoting jamincan (Reply 43):
When the NHL expanded to Ottawa, they didn't have an NHL-ready arena and the Sens played at the Civic Centre (capacity ~10000) for four years until Scotiabank Place (the Palladium at the time) opened.

Also, when the Atlanta Flames moved to Calgary, they played for I believe 2 years in the old Calgary Corral, cap about 6,300. The thing I recall most about the Corral was the 5 ft high boards. Players needed to rappel down to the ice surface.
So a Seattle team at key for a couple of years is doable, same for Le Colisee in Quebec City.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
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