stasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3061 posts, RR: 1 Posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2655 times:
In a recent incredibly candid interview with USA Today, Mark Fields, Ford Motor Company President, revealed that Ford was seriously considering shuttering the Lincoln division. In fact, Ford almost dropped the Lincoln brand around the same time it decided to shutter the Mercury brand.
2013 Lincoln MKZ - Concept
Lincoln was America’s best-selling luxury brand a dozen years ago (when the brand offered the popular Navigator SUV, the newly restyled Town Car sedan, and the all new Jaguar-influenced LS sport sedans), but has recently fallen in sales and market penetration. During this fall from grace, Lincoln has became the symbol of the senior citizen crowd, which has nearly tarnished the brand beyond repair.
“I don’t think we’re relevant to the core luxury customer,” the head of Ford's marketing department said of the Lincoln brand.
As a result of that damaged perception, Ford nearly discontinued the brand. After all, simply closing the division would have been far simpler than returning it to its former glory. However, Ford is now fully committed to Lincoln, and has vowed that the brand will eventually rival the likes of Lexus, BMW and Mercedes-Benz. Ford is going all-in on its Lincoln luxury brand with seven new models by 2015, but Ford executives could elect to fold the luxury marque if this latest attempt at its reincarnation fails.
The new plan for Lincoln couples "elegant" style, outstanding build quality, and embracing high technology, using the new MKZ hybrid as a case in point. The brand new MKZ hybrid will get 41 mpg on the EPA city cycle, features the My Lincoln Touch infotainment system (think the standard Ford Sync system on steroids), and has unique styling (which is debatable) - although the MKZ (see official Lincoln photos above and below) shares the same front wheel drive platform as the European Ford Mondeo and its virtual clone, the new Ford Fusion that was just released in North America. Not to beat a dead horse, but what Lincoln truly needs is a inspirational "halo" vehicle - a front engined, long wheelbase rear wheel drive sedan - think of something like the timeless 1961 Continental - something that urban music artists and wealthy country-club types both yearn to own.
Otherwise, I think Ford should perform a mercy-killing of the Lincoln brand.
sccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 4884 posts, RR: 32 Reply 2, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2642 times:
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter): Not to beat a dead horse, but what Lincoln truly needs is a inspirational "halo" vehicle - a front engined, long wheelbase rear wheel drive sedan - think of something like the timeless 1961 Continental - something that urban music artists and wealthy country-club types both yearn to own.
You said a lot, right there.
Ford has already proven that they can return their design and build quality to match and exceed the best the competition can offer. Turned loose to excel, the engineers and designers at FoMoCo can build Lincolns the world will line-up to buy.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
flymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 5674 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2634 times:
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 1): The only US brand to get somewhat close to the Axis cars is Cadillac, but that ain't saying much.
CTS V8 Wagon is pretty cool, but give me an E63 Wagon any day. Cadillac is pretty decent though.
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter): In a recent incredibly candid interview with USA Today, Mark Fields, Ford Motor Company President, revealed that Ford was seriously considering shuttering the Lincoln division.
They should have not have considered it and just done it. Does lincoln even sell well? Their commercials are decent.
Besides for a few Jeeps and if I ever needed a pickup there are very few American cars I would ever consider owning with the current line-up. We make a lot of great things in the US but right now cars is not one of them.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
Kent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 807 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2629 times:
Out of interest I just visited the Lincoln website - and my eyes are still burning from the ugliness of the current range. The MKZ conept is much better, although the front end is maybe a little bland.
I would have thought that Ford getting rid of Jag would have freed Lincoln up a bit to build saleable cars again? Yet Tata's purchase of Jag is the move that's released a flood of decent product from Jag....
Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 6457 posts, RR: 36 Reply 5, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2611 times:
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter): Lincoln was America’s best-selling luxury brand a dozen years ago (when the brand offered the popular Navigator SUV, the newly restyled Town Car sedan, and the all new Jaguar-influenced LS sport sedans), but has recently fallen in sales and market penetration. During this fall from grace, Lincoln has became the symbol of the senior citizen crowd, which has nearly tarnished the brand beyond repair.
“I don’t think we’re relevant to the core luxury customer,” the head of Ford's marketing department said of the Lincoln brand.
Lincoln sells nothing but cheaper Ford cars, add a lot of chrome and leather, and try to sell it as a luxury car. Doesn't work.
These days, a Luxury car is (still) Rear wheel drive, with a sophisticated chassis which can both be very comfortable when cruising, but will still handle well when you give it the boot. That requires development skill that has been sadly lacking in the US, and this is where the Germans have traditionally exceled. You should have engines available that go to at the very least 350 hp. German luxury cars are up to 500, 600 horses.
The Germans are there, Jaguar is there, Lexus and Infiniti are close on their heels, then you have other high-priced brands such as Aston, Range Rover, Porsche etc which are able to do it. A true luxury car should have a dual personality - comfortable when you want it to be but able to surprise you (and others) with performance.
Here's the frustration - A luxury car requires a lot of work tuning the chassis to make it feel like it's worth the price premium. That is much more important than leather and chrome. Why is it that over the past 30 years American manufacturers refuse to invest in chassis development for cars that sell in the 10s or 100s of thousands per year, when much smaller firms like Jaguar or Aston Martin or Porsche develop much better chassis in spite of only selling a few thousands?
Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 1):
The only US brand to get somewhat close to the Axis cars is Cadillac, but that ain't saying much.
Cadillac has done some good things in terms of what I said above. But their styling department should be lined up against the wall and shot.
I am Descartes of Borg. I assimilate, therefore I am
stasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3061 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2609 times:
Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 4): would have thought that Ford getting rid of Jag would have freed Lincoln up a bit to build saleable cars again
Perhaps Ford should have kept Jaguar and Land Rover - and let Lincoln die. Lincoln in my mind competes now with Buick, the Lexus ES, and the Hyundai Genesis - while Jaguar competed (in buyers minds) directly with Mercedes and BMW and had a very clear image. Although Jaguar also faced the problem of being seen as the "senior citizen" choice. Their new products (which were already in the pipeline when Ford sold the brand to Tata) have definitely "jazzed up" Jaguar's image, which is exactly what Ford needs to do with Lincoln.
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 11546 posts, RR: 27 Reply 7, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2586 times:
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter): In fact, Ford almost dropped the Lincoln brand around the same time it decided to shutter the Mercury brand.
Can't imagine why they didn't. Heck, I can't imagine why they wouldn't do it now. They have a model lineup that consists of:
- two overpriced, poorly badge engineered versions of unremarkable Ford sedans (they can barely compete with Honda and Toyota, so how are they going to compare to Mercedes and BMW?)
- two ugly, poorly badge engineered versions of Ford crossovers, where again, the original is nothing special
- the Navigator which, depending on who you ask, is like an Escalade without the style, a Range Rover without the style and class, or a Porsche Cayenne without the style, class, and performance
- and special mention for the now departed Mark LT, which existed for no reason at all.
So basically Lincoln has become Mercury and whatever cache the brand once had has been washed away in a torrent of mediocrity, even by geriatric standards.
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter): “I don’t think we’re relevant to the core luxury customer,”
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter): although the MKZ (see official Lincoln photos above and below) shares the same front wheel drive platform as the European Ford Mondeo and its virtual clone, the new Ford Fusion that was just released in North America.
The grand revitalization of the Lincoln brand will be led by....more of the same.
Quoting flymia (Reply 3): CTS V8 Wagon is pretty cool, but give me an E63 Wagon any day.
The Germans are better cars off the lot, but having that extra $30-40k to do some tuning would pay off handsomely for the CTS.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5): But their styling department should be lined up against the wall and shot.
Art and Science is starting to age, and there doesn't seem to be much evolution.
Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 6): Their new products (which were already in the pipeline when Ford sold the brand to Tata) have definitely "jazzed up" Jaguar's image, which is exactly what Ford needs to do with Lincoln.
Exactly. And the Range Rover Evoque is getting some good reviews too.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 36437 posts, RR: 86 Reply 11, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2573 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10): As far as consumers were concerned the Town Car was dead long before that,
2007 to be exact. The last 3 model years were not marketed to consumers and were mainly sold to fleets. However, a private consumer still could have bought one.
LOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2563 times:
I almost bought a Lincoln LSE once. Damn it was sweet. I regret to this day not buying this car but somehow I knew the 3.9L AJ was going to be a PITA and I passed it up.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5): Cadillac has done some good things in terms of what I said above. But their styling department should be lined up against the wall and shot.
I dont mind the Cadillac styling at all. Im not the biggest fan of the current SRX though. The small engine available up to 2011 was god-awfull with that gearbox though. I dont know how they could have done that to a Cadillac, it was truly worse driving than the Opel...excuse me Catera.
Not gonna lie, if someone gave me an Escalade ESV to roll around town in with these moon-crater like potholes here I wouldnt mind it, prefer the Yukon XL but still from a comfort perspective it gets the job done.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 36437 posts, RR: 86 Reply 13, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2558 times:
Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 12): Not gonna lie, if someone gave me an Escalade ESV to roll around town in with these moon-crater like potholes here I wouldnt mind it, prefer the Yukon XL but still from a comfort perspective it gets the job done.
The 1994 - 1996 Fleetwood Brougham would handle those potholes better.
Superfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 36437 posts, RR: 86 Reply 15, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2547 times:
Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 14): Lincoln LS V8 special edition. Such an underrated car the LS V8 was.
Such a missed opportunity and a great vehicle. There was very little marketing for the LS and they should have given the car a name instead of "LS" which had been a trim level on various Mercury and Lincolns over the years.
Perhaps THAT should have be called the Zephyr.
The upside-down bath-tub Town Car of 1998 - 2002 should have been called the Cosmopolitan and the Continental concept should have went in to production.
The based hardtop could have been the Town Car and the convertible should have been the Continental.
LOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2538 times:
Now im really getting pissed off I didnt buy it. It was some good stuff for that year, 2005 - Had the first electronic hand brake and came along with the ventilated front seats.
Im hating all these stupid 3 letter designations we got from the Japs, let them have their unimaginative crap and give me some inspiring names. The consolation prize is we get cars named things they should be named. I mean come on, the Avenger or the GTO?
People dont have balls anymore, thats the problem. Everyones lost their mind and driving around in shitty plastic lunchbox Kias.
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 6127 posts, RR: 4 Reply 18, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2368 times:
Quoting flymia (Reply 3): Besides for a few Jeeps and if I ever needed a pickup there are very few American cars I would ever consider owning with the current line-up.
Would that include all the "foreign" cars built in the US - from Hyundai to BMWs?
PHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 6974 posts, RR: 31 Reply 19, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2364 times:
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 8): I think one reason Ford didn't kill off the Lincoln (along with Mercury) was that the dealers who would be eliminated would sue Ford for huge money.
In many areas, a lot of Lincoln-Mercury dealers merged w/nearby Ford dealers thereby creating a situation where EVERY Lincoln product had a competing Ford product UNDER THE SAME ROOF. EPIC FAIL IMHO.
Who's going to buy a Navigator, if the same place offers a similarly-equipped Expedition for a lower price.
Worth noting: Chrysler, Dodge/RAM & Jeep dealerships did themselves no favors by doing similar (combining all brands under one dealership).
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter): Not to beat a dead horse, but what Lincoln truly needs is a inspirational "halo" vehicle - a front engined, long wheelbase rear wheel drive sedan - think of something like the timeless 1961 Continental - something that urban music artists and wealthy country-club types both yearn to own.
It's worth noting that the '61 Continental was what saved Lincoln from its last 'near-death' experience. As a matter of fact, proposals to kill off the Lincoln brand date as far back as right after WW2. The fore-mentioned kill-off plan from the late-50s was the 3rd known proposal attempt.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7): - two overpriced, poorly badge engineered versions of unremarkable Ford sedans (they can barely compete with Honda and Toyota, so how are they going to compare to Mercedes and BMW?)
At the moment, the MKZ's Lincoln's best selling model. Despite sharing the obvious resemblance to the Fusion & now-gone Milan; it's managed to hold its own. Will it sell as well as the Fusion? No, but that was never the intent for the MKZ/Zephyr.
OTOH, the MKS is an absolute abortion. It's ugly and it has LESS interior room & trunk space than ANY of its Ford-Mo-Co D3-platformed siblings (Taurus/Sable/Five Hundred/Montego) past & present. The smallish trunk space and narrow cabin were 2 reasons why limo coach builders flat out rejected it as a possible Town Cars replacement when it first rolled out for 2009.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7): two ugly, poorly badge engineered versions of Ford crossovers, where again, the original is nothing special
Like the MKZ sedan, the MKX hasn't done too badly considering; I actually liked the front-end treatment of the 2007-2010 models. Then again, during the MKX's early years; it wasn't internally competing with the Edge under the same roof in most instances.
The MKT, while making strides to NOT resemble its Flex cousin; again, has LESS interior room and cargo space than its Ford cheaper cousin. Epic Fail IMHO.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7): the Navigator which, depending on who you ask, is like an Escalade without the style, a Range Rover without the style and class, or a Porsche Cayenne without the style, class, and performance
With the exception of the Range Rover, the Navigator was around YEARS BEFORE the Escalade and Cayenne. As a matter of fact, its 1998 roll-out and sales success sent Cadillac scurrying to design and launch its Escalade.
Now with the Town Car gone; the Navigator's the only RWD-based, BOF, V8-powered vehicle left in Lincoln's line-up. It's also the only vehicle in their lineup that has OVER 60 inches of shoulder room for the first 2 rows of seating.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7): and special mention for the now departed Mark LT, which existed for no reason at all.
I will agree with you on that one. Lincoln should've gotten the message when its earlier Blackwood truck bombed. I guess they thought that since Cadillac had a version of the Chevy Avalanche in its Escalade family; they should have a version of its F-150 Super Crew.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 6457 posts, RR: 36 Reply 20, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2348 times:
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 18): Would that include all the "foreign" cars built in the US - from Hyundai to BMWs?
It has nothing to do with where it's built. It has to do with corporate philosophy. Certain car manufacturers will only put a car on the market when they have developed it to the point that their engineers say, "It's as good as it can be - we can't think of anything we can do to make it better."
Other car manufacturers are willing to put a car on sale for the cheapest development possible, and the marketing/sales/accounting guys (rather than the engineers) say, "That'll do."
"That'll do" is the attitude that has exemplified the US auto industry for decades. They certainly have made strides in build quality, but that was because they HAD to. But as far as chassis development and the development of cars that are both comfortable and handle well is still 30 years behind. "That'll do" simply will not do for the Luxury market.
One caveat: A couple of weeks ago, I spent a weekend driving around Dallas in a Camaro SS. Even though Dallas is hardly a Mecca of fun driving roads, I was pleasantly surprised about the handling. But then again, the Camaro is built on a Chassis developed by Holden in Australia.
I am Descartes of Borg. I assimilate, therefore I am
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 6127 posts, RR: 4 Reply 21, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2284 times:
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20): "It's as good as it can be - we can't think of anything we can do to make it better.
Like the cooling system on my '68 BMW 2002? Pure "Yugo Engineering" standard there, but it was good enough to send to the US.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 20): Other car manufacturers are willing to put a car on sale for the cheapest development possible, and the marketing/sales/accounting guys (rather than the engineers) say, "That'll do."
"That'll do" also relates to the BMW "fix" for their impotent cooling system on my car - they sent a larger fan. Far cheaper than engineering a real solution. (And even with the new fan the car was incapable of running an AC in hot weather.)
Basic moral of the story? Don't believe that "designed/engineered outside of the US" means far superior cars.
Over the years I've also come to believe that the costs to maintain is also an important factor in engineering quality. Instead of working hard to figure out what new engineering trick that can be put in a car there also needs to be a focus on how to reduce the costs of maintenance over the life of the car.
AustinAllison From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 114 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2274 times:
Anyone who thinks a BMW or a Mercedes is better than a Cadillac is crazy.
Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 6457 posts, RR: 36 Reply 23, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2270 times:
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21): Like the cooling system on my '68 BMW 2002? Pure "Yugo Engineering" standard there, but it was good enough to send to the US.
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21):
"That'll do" also relates to the BMW "fix" for their impotent cooling system on my car - they sent a larger fan.
Are you trying to argue the point using an example from 44 years ago? Actually you might be doing the reverse. The world's automotive manufacturers have advanced over the last few decades, but the US' less so than others. In the 50s and 60s the US actually exported a lot of cars - they were considered the height of luxury in Europe at the time when the likes of BMW and Mercedes made some very basic cars by comparison. Not any more. Your example illustrates that.
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 21): Over the years I've also come to believe that the costs to maintain is also an important factor in engineering quality
Certainly. But what we are talking about is LUXURY cars. Cost is not so important, neither is fuel mileage, because the buyers of these cars have cash to blow, by definition. What makes a luxury car is chassis sophistication, features, fit and finish, and a certain X-Factor that says to the buyer that they did not buy a blinged-up Taurus or Expedition, but something rather special.
I am Descartes of Borg. I assimilate, therefore I am
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 6127 posts, RR: 4 Reply 24, posted (3 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2232 times:
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23): Are you trying to argue the point using an example from 44 years ago?
Oddly enough we were not still in the horse & buggy era back then. We had sent man to the moon by then and we landed on the moon the next year.
And US cars (as well as some foreign makers) were able to handle cooling systems even with loaded up card and hefty a/c units.
Where this is a solid example is when you get to arrogant companies who believe their products are so outstanding that they can so easily get caught with their pants down.
ANd it points out the "cheapest at any cost" approach to correcting their arrogant & incompetent POS engineering.
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 23): Cost is not so important, neither is fuel mileage, because the buyers of these cars have cash to blow, by definition
Cars that require excessively expensive maintenance to operate at a normal level are, IMO, poorly engineered. I don't care how many cute engineering fobs you add in, it is still pretty queer engineering when it takes excessive maintenance to maintain.
25 KiwiRob: I very much doubt when VW and Porsche were designing the Touareg and Cayenne the Navigator was in it's sights. Besides the ML was out MONTHS BEFORE t
26 swissy: They were all the same more or less... my old lady always had these US ships, god only knows why... Chrysler's and US made Fords...just as cr..y, bro
27 Dreadnought: Depends what you want it to do. A mainstream sedan or econobox, I would agree with you 100%, they should be designed to be reliable as hell and cheap
28 flymia: Well certainly compared to the 80s I am sure cars have improved, but I still not a fan of most American cars. No, I know a lot of foreign companies m
29 LOT767-300ER: How old are you people? Majority of cars in the US have had factory A/C since the late 60s. Thats significant considering half the cars in Europe are
30 Dreadnought: It was available, but not standard and fairly expensive for a long time. My first american cars (built in 60s, 70s and 80s) did not have A/C - and I
31 BMI727: It's the tallest midget. They are both absolute dogs compared to the competition. Why would anyone buy a MKS or MKZ when they could get an Avalon, In
32 Ken777: Yep. Our first car with an a/c was a '55 Pontiac Wagon. Big sucker, 3 rows of seats and the a/c could reach the backseat. That was 13 years before my
33 zippyjet: Amazing how history repeats itself. Lincoln and the Continental were almost on the euthinasia path back in the late 1950's early 1960's. What was a ha
34 Dreadnought: It's an easy thing to underestimate when you don't have experience with it. My rough guess is that a car sold in Germany like the 2002, where peak te
35 zippyjet: I'm confused! You said your first A/C equipped car was a '55 Pontiac Wagon. But it was 13 years before your 2002 was made? If it was a '55 Pontiac wi
36 stasisLAX: The Lincoln LS sedan (especially the V-8 version) was a fine road car, which offered crisp handling and restrained styling thanks to some engineering
37 SCCutler: My first car was a 1961 Chevrolet Impala, and its air conditioning was factory-fit, fully-integrated (or, as they called it, "Four-Seasons Air). It wo
38 zippyjet: My Grandpa had a 4 door Impala he bought new with factory A/C back in 1961. I remember it was a two tone pink and white. His was equipped with the Fo
39 LOT767-300ER: >50% of American cars had A/C by 1969. Probably should have bought something other than a Gremlin and a Skylark.
40 Superfly: Ford usually gets it right the first time so no need to make updates or improvements. Last week, I rode in a Australian spec 1966 Plymouth Fury stati
41 PHLBOS: Actually, the Crown Vic & Grand Marquis didn't offer standard A/C across the board until 1987. Granted, most of the earlier models by then were a
42 swissy: and gets rid of it... Lets face it... the AC hype started very late even in the US... sure was available as an option during the time the right outsi
43 BMI727: You can't seriously tell me that it takes that much more effort to make a Mark LT out of an F-150 than it does a King Ranch. All they did was take a
44 swissy: Because perhaps Ford is done with Lincoln... How many brands did the "old big 3" kill off... what negative impact did it have to them?? What did it d
45 PHLBOS: I never stated such (regarding Lincoln requiring a more extensive effort). BUT! When the Mark LT first rolled out; the majority of Ford and Lincoln(-
46 Superfly: "Hype" It wasn't 'hype' to those that lived in hot climates. It was a very desirable option to have but cost a lot of money to have. I wouldn't call
47 PHLBOS: Once upon a time: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNgfwxT015A&feature=related
49 Newark727: I will say this about the current Lincoln range: "branding" run amok. Remember when a few years ago there was this styling craze for a really distinct
50 Flight152: I don't think much else needs to be said.
51 zippyjet: This era was the exponential rise of crime in the USA. Convertible's peaked selling the most in model year 1965. As you got to 1967 and especially 19
52 Superfly: Without AC, you couldn't even give it to me. I need to have AC. My favorite of that era Thunderbird would be the Town Landau. That had just about all
53 aerobalance: I see you're back at it again, the drivel coming from you about your BMW that was not engineered for our climate stems on your mistake of buying a ca
54 BMI727: I might have bought that 20 years ago, but there is too much information that is too easily accessible for things like that to matter as much anymore
55 PHLBOS: Yeah, but IMHO they shot themselves in the foot a few years ago when they renamed EVERY one of their models as they were redesigned and lost a sense
56 KiwiRob: There was no reason why they couldn't have kept Buick for the Chinese market and Pontiac for the US market, it's just a badge.
57 poLOT: Pontiac and Buick are aimed at different markets though, so it wouldn't be as easy as taking one car and rebadging it as a Buick in one market and Po
58 zippyjet: Was the car a BMW 2002? I worked out with a guy at the JCC (Baltimore) who had one with a 4 speed stick and A/C. The A/C rocked. We have some torrid
59 Superfly: That's my first choice for a car color. My least favorite color for a car is white or silver grey - basically, all rental cars today. My hometown of
60 Dreadnought: That rear-end is butt-ugly, but yeah, that would be a luxury car.
61 poLOT: Yes, back in the day they were different, but it is not the 50s and 60s anymore. The problem that automakers have found is that now a days everyone w
63 Dreadnought: Two-Bagger Seriously, their exterior styling department needs to stop hiring blind people hand come up with something nice. Here is what they are com
64 Superfly: I dunno, as much as I love the Aston Martin and Maserati, they look more like a "worn-bar-of-soap" than the crisp, shape edge styling of the Continen
65 poLOT: FoMoCo narrowly avoided the bailout. They didn't have enough money to go develop incredibly expensive cars, and (wisely) used their money to strength
66 Revelation: I think that's too ambitious for Lincoln. I think what's needed is a tight-handling, powerful, stylish, goood value for money car to take on the 3 se
67 swissy: Because if they would brand these models under Toyota,Nissan, no one would pay that price... Now if Lincoln would bring even something close to a Ast
68 Flighty: Cadillac and Lincoln could fairly easily engineer cars that rival German luxury cars. It is much harder to engineer mainstream cars on a tight budget
69 stasisLAX: Thank you, 'Fly. I love that freaking concept - Ford should have let Lincoln build that damn car, and all would be right in Lincoln's world. And this
70 Superfly: I hope those in charge at Lincoln revisit this Continental concept and put it in to production when better economic times eventually comes around. Li
71 zippyjet: Those pictures you posted are decent looking but that grill on the third picture looks like Mr. Ed's horseshoe mated to that horrid 1958 Edsel horse
72 Superfly: Hence why I like it. It was one of the most production ready concepts I've ever seen. The difference is that the SST projects would have been very ex
73 PHLBOS: Handling package of sorts, very likely; 460 cid, no... at least not via the factory. For 1977 & 1978 Ford & Mercury purposely restricted the
74 Revelation: Tis true, but the point I'm making is the separate buildings matter too. Good luck trying to sell the Toyota Avalon (basically a souped-up Camry) und
75 swissy: Bingo , I guess we have to understand that these companies have their reputation... Like VW, their luxury car is a bust and hell no would I ever pay
76 KiwiRob: Now this must be pretty unique, I've never seen a Phantom with a roof like this one.
77 Flighty: Yeah, I just really question whether it was possible to 'reinvent' their brands at all. It would have saved a lot of trouble just to keep their tradi
78 Revelation: It begs the question if GM should have kept Pontiac and gotten rid of Caddy. Looking at Caddy's Arts and Science era cars, you have to wonder what ma
79 Superfly: No they don't. They look more like a cheap Enterprise rental car interior. I wish Cadillac would return to the Grandparents living room interior. The
80 TOMMY767: At this point I'm surprised Lincoln isn't dead yet. Mercury and Lincoln have been irrelevant since the 1990s and they killed off the Merc first. Ponti
81 Dreadnought: The G8 was basically a rebadged Holden Commodore from Australia. You can still buy basically the same car, same chassis, although the bodywork has ch
82 Superfly: Which is a frikkin' AWESOME car! The G8 is a 4 door sedan, the Camaro is a 2 door and smaller interior.
83 zippyjet: It's a shame Pontiac toward the end went for the ABC 123 game of naming their cars. This was one of the things that did in Lincoln. To a lesser extent
84 poLOT: In China, one of the ultimate status symbols is having your own personal drivers. Because of that, rear seat space and comfort is often paramount ove
85 zippyjet: I wonder how they'll feel when their land yacht Buick's shake rattle and roll after three years. One of the things that got our car industry to where
86 Superfly: If you have seen the traffic and the glut of rattly tin-can cars here in Asia, the soft ride and comfort of a Buick is a very pleasant experience. Tr
87 stasisLAX: I am of the mind that there is no substantial difference between the build quality of a new Buick Regal (yes, I know it's an Opel Insignia), a Ford F
88 zippyjet: Who could forget the God Awful looking and handling Ford Valdez oops I meant Excursion? There are many owners of Chrysler Co. minivans that swear at
89 Superfly: That was/is an amazing truck. Late night TV show host and environmentalist had a fit over that vehicle but it had been around for over 30 years. It's
90 Revelation: The Chinese wannabe dude will just sell it on to another Chinese wannabe dude and get a new one. Problem solved. I think that's what's killing off th
91 TOMMY767: Holy crap! That's a beautiful car. They should have made that! Slightly different in terms of variation (similar cars that are in the states but with
92 mbmbos: Let's see, Ford nearly kills of Lincoln. And Lincoln was shot at the Ford Theater. More than coincidence?
93 sccutler: The quality of new Buicks is world-class; they are building good cars, no apologies or qualifications required. Not at all true in my experience; pre
94 KiwiRob: No it's not, the Commodore is a pretty average car at best, cheap interior, poorly built, they only become interesting when they are turned into HSV'
95 Superfly: Agreed! This is enough of a conspiracy that there should be a Michael Moore movie made about this. That's the truth! The 3.8 liter V6 is bulletproof!
96 Kent350787: The Park Avenue is a rebadged/reworked Holden Caprice assembled from CKD in Shanghai. No idea whether the suspension tune has been softened. Most Cap
97 sccutler: Of course, that vehicle is not sold here in the states (wish it were!). I admit that my exposure to Holden's quality is limited, but I was quite happ
98 zippyjet: It seemed that way however, CR was anything but kind when the latest generation Honda Civic came out. They actually said they could not put this car
99 stasisLAX: Lincoln is said to be "exploring" offering a LIncoln badged version of the all-new Ford Escape SUV to North American buyers. The new Escape is based h
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