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GM To Kill Off Both Opel And Vauxhall Brands?  
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2765 times:

According to today's Detroit News, GM is considering killing off both the Opel and the Vauxhall brands, replacing both brands with the Chevrolet brand in the European marketplace. GM is bleeding a flood of red ink in its European operations, General Motors CEO Dan Akerson said the automaker has lost more than $2.34 billion on GM’s European operations since pushing to call off the sale of the Opel brand in late 2009. Plans to reach break-even on an operating basis were scrapped in November as the European economy teetered on the brink of collapse.

GM’s European sales dropped 15 percent in December 2011, led by an 18 percent sales decrease at Opel, according to data from the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association. Opel’s share of the market in Western Europe fell to 7 percent last year from its highest level of nearly 13 percent market penetration rate n 1993. GM has spent almost $1 Billion (USD) in restructuring and early-retirement costs in its European operations since undergoing reorganization and slashed nearly 6,000 jobs in Europe. Those efforts included closing an assembly plant in Belgium - and GM senior management sees more plant closings in Europe (rumors are that one assembly plant will be closed in both the UK and Germany) in the near future. GM has lost at least $600 million USD on its Opel and Vauxhall brands in 2011 - the exact total to be announce later in February maybe even be MUCH higher - over $800 million USD.

According to the Detroit News, "a properly radical plan may be to just retain four or five of GM Europe’s remaining production sites and turn them into assembly plants for Chevrolet models, and then reposition Chevrolet as a value, lower-mid-market brand to compete alongside the likes of Hyundai, Kia and Skoda, while also retaining the Ruesselsheim R&D facility for an enhanced global vehicle development programme to create true “world” cars, such as Ford is now doing,”

Opel's market image is behind the huge drop in market share - Opel is now perceived as a maker of boring "so-so" quality cars that are marketed to senior citizens in much of Europe. GM has already lost $2.4 billion on Opel since 2009, and has lost $11 billion total on all of its European operations since 1999.

It seems to me that Opel and Vauxhall dealerships will soon be sporting the Chevrolet bow-tie emblem in the very near future - there is simply no way in my opinion that GM can afford to support 3 seperate brands in the European market (or four - if you count the VERY limited number of Cadillacs sold there). Many market analysts see Opel and Vauxhall's problems as "un-solveable" and that one consolidated operation and marketing brand (Chevrolet) in Europe is the only option that General Motors has.

Source: http://blogs.detroitnews.com/overdri...ants-could-jettison-vauxhall-opel/

[Edited 2012-02-09 17:54:46]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8951 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2742 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
According to today's Detroit News, GM is considering killing off both the Opel and the Vauxhall brands, replacing both brands with the Chevrolet brand in the European marketplace.
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Opel's market image is behind the huge drop in market share - Opel is now perceived as a maker of boring "so-so" quality cars that are marketed to senior citizens in much of Europe.

Remembering that Chevrolet has been selling cars in Europe for years which were actually rebadged Daewoo cars from Korea, the answer to Opel's image of boring, cheaply made and shoddy quality cars is to replace it with another brand known for poorly built cheap cars (well, not the Corvette but that's hardly mainstream)?

Makes sense  



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2729 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
Makes sense

I'm having the same problem - but the consolidation of two brands into one (even if it's a Chevrolet brand that needs rehabilitation) and the closing of plants will lead to "perceived" cost savings.

I also think that, after reading numerous automotive press reports, GM is taking Ford's "One Ford" business strategy to heart and sees that as the way forward with Chevrolet - one consistent brand in the world marketplace, just as Ford has done with their current "world cars" - the Fiesta, Mondeo/Fusion, and Focus models. The one unanswered question I have now is what happens with GM in Australia - is Holden now the next GM brand to face the chopping block? Will Chevrolet replace Holden?



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8951 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2722 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 2):
I also think that, after reading numerous automotive press reports, GM is taking Ford's "One Ford" business strategy to heart and sees that as the way forward with Chevrolet - one consistent brand in the world marketplace, just as Ford has done with their current "world cars" - the Fiesta, Mondeo/Fusion, and Focus models.

Works with compact cars like the Fusion, but not with a whole product range.

Maybe the Chevy badge can be repaired. It stands the best chance in France, I think. The brand was founded by Louis Chevrolet, who I believe was a French Immigrant. They can market it as a French brand 'coming home'.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 3013 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2717 times:

I understand Vauxhall- but Opel? Hell, I know several people that drive Opels but don't know they are GM vehicles- are these people going to buy Chevrolets? I really don't think so. But I'll be interested to see were GM takes this.


The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8763 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2709 times:

I'm sorry about the outburst, but... BWAAAAAAHAHAAAAAAA!!!    What in the name of all that's holy, has ever been holy and might possibly one day become holy are these people thinking?!

GM destroyed the Chevrolet brand in Europe when they slapped it on Daewoo products, as seen on Top Gear where for years they used a Lacetti as the "reasonably priced car" (i.e. comically bad cheap rubbish) for that segment. To insinuate that GM might be able to "reposition Chevrolet as a value, lower-mid-market brand" is at best asinine - they've proven it with Opel. As for competing "alongside the likes of Hyundai, Kia and Skoda", the only one of those brands that doesn't have a huge image problem in Europe is Skoda... and that's only because their cars are slightly simplified and/or older VWs for much less than a VW.

For the sake of the employees, I hope that this blogger is dead wrong.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2703 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 5):
For the sake of the employees, I hope that this blogger is dead wrong.

I hope so too. But I just found that "Automotive News" (which the the be-all, end-all auto news source, in my opinion) is also reporting the same story - Opel and Vauxhall are on the chopping block. Also, the British newspaper The Telegraph is reporting that the Ellesmere Port assembly plant (which builds the Astra model) is thought to be one of the two GM Europe plants scheduled for closure because Opel and Vauxhall have "excess plant capacity" - GM's language for "poor sales"....

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...t-to-Vauxhall-as-GM-eyes-cuts.html

General Motors' declining sales in Europe have become a major drag on the company's bottom line, putting GM's share price into near free-fall, AGAIN. That is making investors nervous (as well as the Obama Administration) because GM's share price today was $25.74 - a significant decrease from the $33 IPO share value set when the company emerged from bankruptcy.

[Edited 2012-02-09 19:57:01]

[Edited 2012-02-09 19:59:30]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 7, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2601 times:

Two years ago Opel engineers and designers have complained that GM management won´t let them build the cars they think would sell well over here. The reason is that the managers send by GM to run Opel are in Germany just on temporary positions and are just trying to get a cozy job back home in the headquarters. Since they are over here only for a short time, they first don´t get the company culture, which is quite different from Detroit, they also try to gain brownie points with the GM top management by cutting costs at all costs, to make their quarterly results look better. None of them has any real interest in improving Opel to build sellable cars.

Jan


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6925 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2586 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
Maybe the Chevy badge can be repaired. It stands the best chance in France, I think. The brand was founded by Louis Chevrolet, who I believe was a French Immigrant. They can market it as a French brand 'coming home'.

Nobody knows that in France, that wouldn't work. To steer an image you need to start from something known, if anything being an American brand could be an advantage, a lot of people would like an American car. But of course, it would have to look like one, not like a 2000$ plastic car from Asia.

But in my opinion it would be foolish anyway, Opel might not be selling at the moment, but they still have a good image, and their emphasis on quality in their ads has even got Renault worried, they responded with a funny copy of the ad, in half French, half German (the Opel ad is in German to emphasize "Deutsch qualität" ).

What they really need are new and interesting cars ! They could also launch an Opel Volt or a hatchback based on the same drivetrain.

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 4):
I understand Vauxhall- but Opel? Hell, I know several people that drive Opels but don't know they are GM vehicles- are these people going to buy Chevrolets? I really don't think so. But I'll be interested to see were GM takes this.

Yeah, Opel here is seen as affordable German cars, nothing to do with the US.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinesrqmuc From Germany, joined Jun 2010, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2563 times:

The recent mega profits of the big car manufactures were highly driven by the Asian market, namely China.

Now, Opel isn't allowed to sale their cars in China because GM wants to serve this market with their US brands , no one has to wonder that Opel isn't making any money.
The Asian market would help them in the short term, but in the long term they would need a new concept. For the European market they just have the wrong positioning and image for their price tag and the US market isn't an Option either as you have the US GM brands which sell basically the same technologies with a different label.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
Two years ago Opel engineers and designers have complained that GM management won´t let them build the cars they think would sell well over here. The reason is that the managers send by GM to run Opel are in Germany just on temporary positions and are just trying to get a cozy job back home in the headquarters. Since they are over here only for a short time, they first don´t get the company culture, which is quite different from Detroit, they also try to gain brownie points with the GM top management by cutting costs at all costs, to make their quarterly results look better. None of them has any real interest in improving Opel to build sellable cars.

Jan

Exactly! They need more autonomy to survive on their own.


User currently onlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2659 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2546 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
(well, not the Corvette but that's hardly mainstream)?



IIRC the Corvette is not badged in Europe as Chevrolet. It's The Corvette.

Now, if It's true and they really want to kill Opel, I'd say they're insane. Yes, Opel's reputation suffered a lot lately due to problems with reliability, but to kill it and replace it with the Chevrolet brand means abandoning the European market.
And to position Chevrolet as lower mid market brand to compete with Skoda? Did they ever drive a newer Skoda than the 105S? Have they ever been to Europe? Do they listen what people say? Heck, even in poor Slovakia Chevrolet has the reputation of a cheap Korean car and if they have to select between two Koreans, they will get the one assembled locally (Kia). Really, if some GM executive would say loud in Europe that they want to pitch Chevrolet against Skoda, the laughter would be heard all the way to Newfoundland.
IIRC Dreadnought wrote several times that our governments should have let GM fail. He's right. What's to point to saving the company on taxpayer's money when the management is trying hard to drive it to the ground anyway?

Quoting Aesma (Reply 8):
Yeah, Opel here is seen as affordable German cars, nothing to do with the US.

I'd say that would be the situation everywhere in Europe.


User currently offlinemelpax From Australia, joined Apr 2005, 1648 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2540 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 2):
The one unanswered question I have now is what happens with GM in Australia - is Holden now the next GM brand to face the chopping block? Will Chevrolet replace Holden?

Could be wrong, but can't see this happening unless something drastic happens, such as local production ceasing. Holden dosen't have the same image problem that Opel/Vauxhall seem to have, although Commodore sales have dropped a lot. The factory in Adelaide makes almost as many Cruzes as Commodores these days, and people seem to be buying up the imported Korean models like the Barina (Spark) & the Captiva. Holden heavily markets themselves as an Australian brand, you'll see very little reference to GM in Australian Holden advertising. A lot of people still think that Holden is a locally owned brand, not part of an international corporation. This advantage would be lost if the Holden brand was replaced with Chevrolet. Also, most folk here still associate the Chevy brand with the gas-guzzling tanks of the 50's, 60's & 70's, not modern economical cars. The brand would have to be re-built from scratch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXNBWf16HJc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aAzMQkX48I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLEgPyCaxtg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VXBasW_TCw&feature=related



Essendon - Whatever it takes......
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7820 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 2530 times:

If they do that GM might as well pull out of Europe, no way are Europeans going to buy Chevrolet badged vehicles in the same numbers as Vauxhal and Opel.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 2):
The one unanswered question I have now is what happens with GM in Australia - is Holden now the next GM brand to face the chopping block? Will Chevrolet replace Holden?

There would be a few pissed of die hard Holden fans but most Aussies/Kiwis realise that Holden is a GM brand and that the current Commodore based vehicles are on borrowed time. So long as assembly was carried out in Australia saying bye bye to the Holden brand could happen fairly smoothly.

Quoting Aesma (Reply 8):
They could also launch an Opel Volt

They already have it's called the Ampera.

I'm sure if GM kill Opel the German govt is going to be mad as hell, since an independant Opel was on the cards a few years back, looks like GM made a huge mistake here, Opel should have been cut loose along with Vauxhall. I thought an independant Opel bundled together with Saab (as there premium brand) run by Europeans would have been a great company with a strong future.


User currently offlinevc10 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 1412 posts, RR: 16
Reply 13, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2522 times:

I am not sure what GM want especially from Vauxhall as they are only allowed to sell their brand in the UK where they have the largest share of the UK market. Even in their traditional markets such as Ireland their brand has been replaced with the Opel brand

Vauxhall have 13.3 % of the UK market in 2011 and it is rising

Ford have 12.3% of the UK market in 2011 and it is falling

VW have 8.9% of the UK market in 2011 and it is falling

Nissan have 4.9% of the UK market in 2011 and it is falling

Chevrolet have 0.6% of the UK market in 2011 and it is Falling

http://www.lingscars.com/uk_car_sales.php#

As you can see there is not much interest here in the UK in Chevrolet cars not because of the name but I believe because they are percieved to behind in technical field and so even though they are cheap here they are expensive to run due to low MPG and High CO2


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 14, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2521 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
I'm sure if GM kill Opel the German govt is going to be mad as hell, since an independant Opel was on the cards a few years back, looks like GM made a huge mistake here, Opel should have been cut loose along with Vauxhall. I thought an independant Opel bundled together with Saab (as there premium brand) run by Europeans would have been a great company with a strong future.

They´d rather kill Opel, Vauxhall and Saab than to let them become strong under a new management, because then it would be competition.

Jan


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6925 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2509 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
They already have it's called the Ampera.

Right, since November. And I had heard (and just confirmed, but never saw any) that they also launched the Chevrolet Volt here. Both cost more than 40000€, and that includes a 5000€ discount from the state !



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8763 posts, RR: 42
Reply 16, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2498 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 14):
They´d rather kill Opel, Vauxhall and Saab than to let them become strong under a new management, because then it would be competition.

I would support nationalising Opel if GM tried that. At some point, someone needs to take a stand against such lunacy.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2474 times:

Problem: We have 3 brands, 2 with a mediocre image, 1 with a horrible image.
Solution: Kill the mediocre ones and go with the horrible brand!

You literally can't make this stuff up.


User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2467 times:

Found a nice ranking to show just how insane this plan is:

http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/adac-...welt/automarxx.aspx?quer=automarxx

This is a "car brand strength" ranking by the ADAC (US equivalent would be the AAA, i think).

Go look for Chevrolet. You need to scroll a little bit.


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2396 times:

Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 10):
if some GM executive would say loud in Europe that they want to pitch Chevrolet against Skoda, the laughter would be heard all the way to Newfoundland.

It needs to carry farther than Newfoundland...


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14139 posts, RR: 63
Reply 20, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2375 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 19):
Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 10):
if some GM executive would say loud in Europe that they want to pitch Chevrolet against Skoda, the laughter would be heard all the way to Newfoundland.

Don´t forget that Skoda has a LOOONG history of engineering, reaching back to the 19th century Austrian-Hungarian empire days. The Communist period was just a short interlude.
Some historical Skoda products:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/Skoda_305_mm_Model_1911_side.jpg/800px-Skoda_305_mm_Model_1911_side.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Panzer-35.jpg/800px-Panzer-35.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1a/CS_363_086-0_in_prag.jpeg/800px-CS_363_086-0_in_prag.jpeg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Skoda_14_Tr_in_Vilnius.jpg/800px-Skoda_14_Tr_in_Vilnius.jpg
(all pictures from Wikipedia)
They built everything, from guns, through cars, trucks, busses, locomotives, ships, industrial equipment to nuclear reactors.

For more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_Works

In fact, they were one of the industrial powerhouses of Europe.

Jan


User currently onlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 10234 posts, RR: 97
Reply 21, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2368 times:
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Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 2):
one consistent brand in the world marketplace, just as Ford has done with their current "world cars" - the Fiesta, Mondeo/Fusion, and Focus models

Ford has always been consistently branded internationally. They are just extending this to the individual products.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
Makes sense  

As a (very) satisfied Vauxhall owner, I can only agree... this is ludicrous

Quoting vc10 (Reply 13):
Vauxhall have 13.3 % of the UK market in 2011 and it is rising

Ford have 12.3% of the UK market in 2011 and it is falling

Yup. The "Vauxhall image problem", and Top Gear both have Jeremy Clarkson in common.....   

Rgds


User currently onlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2659 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2365 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 20):

Jan,

you don't have to tell me that. I was born and raised in Czechoslovakia and I'm familiar with Skoda's history. But thanks for supporting my point  


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7820 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2334 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 21):
Yup. The "Vauxhall image problem", and Top Gear both have Jeremy Clarkson in common.....

To be fare the Vectra B which Clarkson trashed was a very poor car, it really was a piece of crap.


User currently offlineswissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2319 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
To be fare the Vectra B which Clarkson trashed was a very poor car, it really was a piece of crap.


To be fair...Vauxhall and Opel are the milk cows for GM for a long long time  ...so, with little to no funds I guess the Vectra B was not a such bad car they came up with....but then again JC is JC   he does not want to see the whole picture  

Just wish Opel/Vauxhaull could do their own thing...

Cheerios,


User currently offlinebrouaviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 25, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2327 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Plans to reach break-even on an operating basis were scrapped in November as the European economy teetered on the brink of collapse.

That is no valid excuse. Every other car brand is reporting good results in the European markets, some of them being staggeringly high (Porsche). The crisis in Europe is a government-crisis. The average European consumer is spending like crazy, and especially in the north-western part the economy is nowhere near the brink of collapse..



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8470 posts, RR: 9
Reply 26, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2270 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):

Two years ago Opel engineers and designers have complained that GM management won´t let them build the cars they think would sell well over here. The reason is that the managers send by GM to run Opel are in Germany just on temporary positions and are just trying to get a cozy job back home in the headquarters. Since they are over here only for a short time, they first don´t get the company culture, which is quite different from Detroit, they also try to gain brownie points with the GM top management by cutting costs at all costs, to make their quarterly results look better. None of them has any real interest in improving Opel to build sellable cars.

i think you hit it spot on.

Just like the Saturn brand GM cannot help but screwing a good car company up. They have to send in GM executives who are totally Out To Lunch when it comes to that specific brand and, after a series of these yo-yos, the brand falls down.

GM needs to let Opel be Opel and bring the great ideas developed there into the US. That is what Holden did with the original Commodore when it replaced the Kingswood. (BTW, could a well designed upgrade of the Kingswood do well in the US and maybe even Australia? It was a pretty impressive design - especially the wagon, which is one we had.)

Oddly enough, if GM wanted to have a strong "foreign car" to combat the international competition they could probably have kept the original Saturn dealerships and have half the cars delivered from Germany.


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5743 posts, RR: 44
Reply 27, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2214 times:
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Fact is GM management do not deserve their jobs, the GM beauracracy was only reinforced by the "Government Motors" era.

How out of touch can they be?? Australia may only be a microcosm of the global GM realm but a healthy one with a decent and reasonably well performing RWD platform(even selling some in the good ole' USA, doing OK in other export markets) a fair FWD smaller(midsized car(Cruze) now being built alongside the Commodore... all looks OK... but then...
Some wack job likely in an office far, far away(where is GM HQ these days anyway?) decides it might make sense for Opel to set up in Oz with a product line that competes almost model for model with GMH.. except for the Commodore,althought the Insignia might take some sales away.

WTF are they thinking(smoking)?

Or .. conspiracy theory alert... are they building an alternate channel with the intent of shuttering GMH??



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2206 times:

Surely the better option would be to kill off the European Chevrolets and concentrate on Opel/Vauxhall (essentially the same bar the badge on the grill and the logo at the dealer). Chevrolet is a bargain basement brand based in Daewoo which already couldn't compete with Hyundai, Kia and Skoda and with the Chinese planning to start European sales there will be a crowded marketplace at the bottom.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 3):
Maybe the Chevy badge can be repaired. It stands the best chance in France, I think. The brand was founded by Louis Chevrolet, who I believe was a French Immigrant. They can market it as a French brand 'coming home'.

Technically born in Switzerland but grew up in France. And I doubt Chevrolet would be most successful in France, the French manufacturers do well at the bottom end of the market before you take into account makers like Kia and Hyundai


User currently offlineGBLKD From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2011, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 2196 times:

Why would GM kill off Vauxhall and Opel when they're building cars that sell well in Europe? Our resident diesel hater posted a picture in his opening post here.....

BMW, VW Signal Death Of Diesel In US. Buick Too. (by mham001 Feb 7 2012 in Non Aviation)

..... of the new Buick which is clearly a re-badged Insignia. We've rented an Insignia for a weekend when our golf needed a new wheelbearing and when it's time to change my car it's pretty high up on the list of possibles. Nice car, comfortable, roomy, well built, and the turbo diesel engine pulled very well indeed.

And for purely selfish reasons I at least want the van plant in Luton to remain open. I'm working for a friend now driving a skip truck and the new contract he's taken me on for (and placed an order for an expensive brand new truck and drawbar trailer) is trunking hazardous waste from Luton for re processing.


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3682 posts, RR: 3
Reply 30, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2090 times:

Quoting vc10 (Reply 13):
I am not sure what GM want especially from Vauxhall as they are only allowed to sell their brand in the UK where they have the largest share of the UK market. Even in their traditional markets such as Ireland their brand has been replaced with the Opel brand

Vauxhall have 13.3 % of the UK market in 2011 and it is rising

Ford have 12.3% of the UK market in 2011 and it is falling

VW have 8.9% of the UK market in 2011 and it is falling

Nissan have 4.9% of the UK market in 2011 and it is falling

Chevrolet have 0.6% of the UK market in 2011 and it is Falling

Your figures are a little bit out, the SMMT (society of motor manufacturers and traders) 2011 figures show:

http://www.smmt.co.uk/2012/01/new-ca...-down-4-4-in-2011-to-1-94-million/

Vauxhall 12.09% (down 0.09 on 2010)
Ford 13.7% (down 0.11)
VW 9.24% (up 0.64)
Nissan 4.96% (up 0.54)
Chevrolet .65% (down 0.2)

Thus it can be seen that whilst Vauxhall isn't the market leader in the UK and it is losing a little market share, its still close to the lead. Meanwhile Chevrolet is a minor player losing share faster than Vauxhall

Chevrolet really is a crap brand in the UK, ugly old cars which aren't even in demand at low prices.


User currently offlinewardialer From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1183 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2022 times:

This artle is NOT at all true.

Europe's economy is doing great than ever before esp. in the automotive industry.
Recession is not even taking a toll there.

Im sorry, whoever created that blog, is not true and I dont believe it.

Even the mainstream news outlets such as Fox, CNN, CNBC does not even have an article about this and I am one of those people who watches CNBC all day whenver I am off work.

[Edited 2012-02-12 00:46:18]

User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1465 posts, RR: 3
Reply 32, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1940 times:

Let me guess, someone misplaced the one and only atlas available in Detroit and figured all the world is just like the US?

US cars have an image that's not much better, if not worse, than the cheapest of the cheap Koreans in Europe. They are simply not selling in meaningful numbers, for the sole reason that a re-badged turd is still a turd. If anybody wants a nice Korean car, Kia will sort you out quite nicely. With their new design language they're slowly moving up market, while GM is steadily sliding down (reference the ADAC survey).

Opel have actually turned out some very decent cars lately, the Insignia and Astra specifically. Top Gear magazine actually made the Astra VXR Nurburgring Edition their hot hatch of the year, and that's quite an achievement. Badge engineer that recently found goodwill into GM products, and the most likely outcome will be European consumers turning away in droves, turning either a bit upmarket to VW or crossing straight over to Skoda. Speaking of Skoda, it's taken them more than a decade to go from laughing stock to respectable. I guess it'll take less than a year to ruin the reputation of Opel if they're re-badged as GM, and then at least 10 years to restore the image.

American GM managers should be denied entry into the EU - that would help much more than any insane ideas cooked up in their ivory tower in Detroit.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineKent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 978 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1853 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 27):
Or .. conspiracy theory alert... are they building an alternate channel with the intent of shuttering GMH??

It is an interesting move. The big problem for Holden was that they replaced the reasonably well selling Astra and Barina (Corsa) (I'm ignoring the Vectra, even though it was Oz assembled at one stage   ) with the Viva (Daewoo Lacetti) and Barina (Kalos) which even the then GMH CEO effectively said were rubbish. So there does seem to be a space for Opel in Australia.

The GMH volume seller is likely to be the Cruze in the relatively near future - it will be very interesting to see what happens with the Commodore. It may be that, if the Commodore goes down the tube the backlash will be so bad that's they'll rebadge the Cruze as a Chev to maintain sales? Then again, I would have though that the brand was strong enough locally for the relatively small cost of maintaining the nameplate to be worthwhile?


User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 34, posted (2 years 10 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1823 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 26):
Oddly enough, if GM wanted to have a strong "foreign car" to combat the international competition they could probably have kept the original Saturn dealerships and have half the cars delivered from Germany.

  

The problem with Saturn is that the brand was the brain-child of Roger Smith (former GM CEO) and after he retired from GM in 1990. Smith was an awful CEO, and his decisions on the GM10 midsize FWD car platform was the biggest, costliest boondoggle in modern manufacturing history. When Smith retired, the GM senior management wanted to kill off the Saturn brand (which was targeted to compete with lower-level Honda, Nissan, and Toyota models) since it used SO much engineering and marketing funding that the other GM divisions DESPERATELY needed for their OWN products. From the early 1990s on, Saturn was the "red headed step child" of all GM brands. Saturn was the import-beater brand of GM - and senior management raped it and cut all funding to it. Stupid, but true.

Now, Saturn in the early 2000s was to be the Opel division here in North America. The Aura was a very decent Opel-based vehicle, the Sky roadster was poor selling but also based on the Vauxhall Lightning concept sports car on a Opel/Holden joint engineered Kappa platform. The Vue cross-over was a "badge engineered" version of Opel's Antara. At one time, the Vue was Saturn's best selling vehicle. It's CVT transmission was a engineering mess, and badly soiled the Vue's reliability reputation. Finally, the Astra was imported directly from Opel (some engine compartment stickers and switchgear were written in German only - GM spent as little money as possible to import the Astra - LOL) and sold directly as an Astra here in the USA. Unfortunately, Saturn's days were numbered and the Astra never gained traction in the marketplace - and GM went bankrupt.... killing off the Pontiac, Saturn, Saab brands and selling Hummer. Saturn had tremendous potential, but internal GM politics and infighting between the divisions killed that potential shortly after it was launched.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
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