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Payroll Tax Cut To Expire Soon  
User currently offlinepropilot83 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 598 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

Alrighty folks, you've heard the President, lets get the job done, start reaching out to your local Congressmen, and tell them to "get the job done." No gimmicks, no backbiting, no slandering, no more political games, no one wants to see their taxes increase come March 2012. I am reaching out to my local Congressman Dreir of Rancho Cucamonga, California, you should too, lets spread our voices like Obama said.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/...nding-payroll-tax-cut-middle-class

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1497 times:

Quoting propilot83 (Thread starter):
no one wants to see their taxes increase come March 2012.

Why not? Isn't the economy recovering, as Obama says? The Payroll tax cut was an emergency stimulus measure.

Also, this particular tax does not go to the General Fund, but to the Social Security Trust Fund. This is money that we're supposed to get back, right? By prolonging this tax cut, we are simply putting the SS fund further into jeopardy.

Note that the proposal presented by the democrats is for this "tax cut", which underfunds the SS Fund, was "paid for" by a tax increase on high income taxpayers - which would go to the General Fund, not the SS Fund. This was one of the main sticking points in December why the GOP refused to pass it.

The Payroll tax should either go back to what it was, OR the Democrats should announce plans to reduce Social Security payments made from the Trust Fund. You can't have it both ways (Of course that's what he wants - to bankrupt the SS Fund so that the government has an excuse to blend it into the General Fund and make it into another big wealth transfer mechanism).



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinepropilot83 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1492 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
Why not? Isn't the economy recovering, as Obama says? The Payroll tax cut was an emergency stimulus measure.

Also, this particular tax does not go to the General Fund, but to the Social Security Trust Fund. This is money that we're supposed to get back, right? By prolonging this tax cut, we are simply putting the SS fund further into jeopardy.

Note that the proposal presented by the democrats is for this "tax cut", which underfunds the SS Fund, was "paid for" by a tax increase on high income taxpayers - which would go to the General Fund, not the SS Fund. This was one of the main sticking points in December why the GOP refused to pass it.

The Payroll tax should either go back to what it was, OR the Democrats should announce plans to reduce Social Security payments made from the Trust Fund. You can't have it both ways (Of course that's what he wants - to bankrupt the SS Fund so that the government has an excuse to blend it into the General Fund and make it into another big wealth transfer mechanism).

Brother of humanity, peace be unto you. You speak like your gonna live tomorrow or in the future, only our Most Merciful Lord knows when we catch our last breath. Man is weak, some are inhumane, and you cannot predict the future like the Almighty Lord of all the worlds. I dont know if your the top 2% of rich folks in America, but I aint. I am barely middle class, so hardly I dont care what happens about the SS trust fund or any other problem, right now, right now, I cannot afford to pay more in social security payroll tax period. There are no butts, ifs, thats, or whats. Bottom line, people are still struggling, in the eyes of a few, the economy is out of the recession, but in the eyes of another million few, people are still struggling like I and many others. I dont want to pay more in payroll taxes period, I will mind, until if ever God willing I become rich, then I dont care if they raise my taxes. You want to tell me where I am going to get the extra $40 a week to pay for my utility bills?????


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1475 times:

Quoting propilot83 (Reply 2):
I dont know if your the top 2% of rich folks in America, but I aint.

Definately not. But are supposed to simply vote our pocketbooks? I'd say not.

Quoting propilot83 (Reply 2):
Brother of humanity, peace be unto you. You speak like your gonna live tomorrow or in the future, only our Most Merciful Lord knows when we catch our last breath. Man is weak, some are inhumane, and you cannot predict the future like the Almighty Lord of all the worlds.

Sorry. I hope for the best and plan for the worst.

Quoting propilot83 (Reply 2):
There are no butts, ifs, thats, or whats. Bottom line, people are still struggling, in the eyes of a few, the economy is out of the recession, but in the eyes of another million few, people are still struggling like I and many others

Some people are always struggling. That doesn't mean that we should perpetually give people a free ride. Help should be temporary.

Quoting propilot83 (Reply 2):
I dont want to pay more in payroll taxes period, I will mind, until if ever God willing I become rich, then I dont care if they raise my taxes. You want to tell me where I am going to get the extra $40 a week to pay for my utility bills?????

I don't WANT to pay more taxes, particularly General Fund taxes. But the SS Fund needs to be kept whole.

As for where to get the extra $40 bucks, well, let's see. If the payroll tax cut is 2% and it represents $40 for you, that means you are making $2,000 per week, or over $100,000 per year. You'll be fine.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12250 posts, RR: 35
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 1441 times:
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The website keeps mentioning "$40 per paycheck"....ok? Based on what? Weekly? Biweekly? Semimonthly? Monthly? I know most common is biweekly paychecks, but not everybody has that.


911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11653 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 1419 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 1):
Why not? Isn't the economy recovering, as Obama says? The Payroll tax cut was an emergency stimulus measure.

I thought the Bush Tax Cuts for the rich were also for stimulus. Why not get rid of those, as well? Oh, that's right... They create jobs. All those millions of jobs that were created all those years. In China, India, Mexico....

Let's raise taxes on the poor and lower taxes on the rich. The poor can afford it.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1393 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
I thought the Bush Tax Cuts for the rich were also for stimulus. Why not get rid of those, as well?

I've said for a long time that those tax cuts were a mistake - particularly because it eliminated nearly half the population from the tax rolls, and turned that half of the nation into leeches on the other half.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
Oh, that's right... They create jobs. All those millions of jobs that were created all those years. In China, India, Mexico....

Job exports happened IN SPITE OF those tax cuts, not BECAUSE OF.

I would remind you that unlike much of the economy, which is small business and pay taxes on the individual scale, the companies that have outsourced their manufacturing, call center and other such activity are CORPORATIONS, and the corporate tax rate has remained pretty much unchanged in 25 years. So the tax cuts have had virtually no impact of job exports, for or against.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
Let's raise taxes on the poor and lower taxes on the rich. The poor can afford it.

It's a question of fairness. I have no problem with a progressive tax system, but I do have a problem when half the people pay nothing (I'm talking Federal General Fund), and leave the other half pay everything. That's inherently unfair. Everyone should have to pay something - 5-10% at a minimum. When Obama talks about people not paying their fair share, it makes me want to puke. And no, I am NOT in the 1%.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinedfwrevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 977 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1388 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
I thought the Bush Tax Cuts for the rich were also for stimulus. Why not get rid of those, as well?

The Bush tax cuts were disproportionately targeted at the middle class and had the effect of shifting more of the tax burden on high income earners. That is to say, it made the tax code more progressive. Sorry for raining on your disinformation parade.

Like it or not, the Bush tax rates became the new normal. If we want to extend the payroll tax cut, we should be honest and make it the permanent rate. Otherwise, it will just become a dog and pony show every time it must be renewed.

I would also propose that anyone contributing more than 10% of their income to a private pension or investment retirement plan be exempt from any FICA taxes. Social Security should function a safety net for those who need it, not a public pension plan for everyone. As such, we should be shaping policies to help make people independent in retirement.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
In China, India, Mexico....

When countries transform from agrarian to industrialized, they are going to add jobs faster than an established, high-tech, high-productivity workforce like the U.S. Our economy is advancing past the point of manufacturing cheap, non-durable, consumer goods.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 5):
Let's raise taxes on the poor and lower taxes on the rich. The poor can afford it.

Those who are truly poor are paying nothing in federal income taxes. The poor disproportionately benefit from programs like Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid, and now we're saying they shouldn't even pay for those programs via FICA and Medicare taxes?


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1388 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
I have no problem with a progressive tax system, but I do have a problem when half the people pay nothing (I'm talking Federal General Fund), and leave the other half pay everything.

That's what happens when you have a massive (and growing) income gap. When all the wealth is held by those at the top, it's pretty hard to tax those at the bottom that have almost nothing.

I agree that many in the lower half aren't paying their fair share in taxes. However, you can't get blood from a stone.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
activity are CORPORATIONS, and the corporate tax rate has remained pretty much unchanged in 25 years.

Except the tons of loopholes and corporate welfare that have been handed out. Many corporations have seen a dramatic reduction in taxes, but they still outsource jobs.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 1382 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 8):

That's what happens when you have a massive (and growing) income gap. When all the wealth is held by those at the top, it's pretty hard to tax those at the bottom that have almost nothing.

Bulcrap, it has nothing to do with that. The massive tax cut on the bottom half was a blatant attempt at buying votes. It was politics. My point is that even if you earn only $20K per year, you should have to pay a grand or two in taxes. If you did, you would start thinking a bit more about government spending, and not see government as your sugar daddy.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 8):
I agree that many in the lower half aren't paying their fair share in taxes. However, you can't get blood from a stone.

I don't care if the overall revenue from taxation on the bottom 50% is relatively insignificant, the point is that everyone should pay something.

The real gap that has developed in this country is not an income gap, but rather the gap between taxpayers and leeches. When more leeches vote than taxpayers, we are toast, and we are right at the borderline right now.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 8):
Except the tons of loopholes and corporate welfare that have been handed out. Many corporations have seen a dramatic reduction in taxes, but they still outsource jobs.

Examples?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11653 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 1340 times:

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 7):
Those who are truly poor are paying nothing in federal income taxes.

I just figured my taxes. I did not enjoy the low low tax rate that Romney and the rich enjoy, but each and every check I recieved, the feds took their cut as did the state of California as did FICA. Stop with the lie that "poor pay nothing in federal income tax" because we do! We pay and pay. People like Romney don't have to pay FICA and don't have to pay the high income tax rate we poor do. Heck, with his shell games, he probably only paid 13% over the past two years so he would be able to show us his taxes that he does pay something.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinepropilot83 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 1325 times:

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 4):
As for where to get the extra $40 bucks, well, let's see. If the payroll tax cut is 2% and it represents $40 for you, that means you are making $2,000 per week, or over $100,000 per year. You'll be fine.

Hey hey hey, no I claim my self and my Mother, and I would only make about $12 less per week, not $40, sorry for calculation error. I hell sure dont make $2,000 a week, if I did, I would not have started this OP. I sure dont make $100,000 a year either, last year I only made like $12,000. I work part time as a sales merchandiser for the Kraft/Nabisco company.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 1324 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
My point is that even if you earn only $20K per year, you should have to pay a grand or two in taxes.

So a grand or two in federal taxes, plus SS/Medicare plus any state income tax, plus sales tax...you'd be effectively taxing the poor 20-30%! Keep in mind this would have almost no impact on the federal deficit. So to balance the budget, you'd still have to slash programs like Medicare/SS which the poor rely on the most. So effectively, you want to raise taxes on the poor and slash their benefits....plunging millions of those struggling to survive in abject poverty. What a great solution!

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 9):
Examples?
"Total corporate federal taxes paid fell to 12.1% of profits earned from activities within the U.S. in fiscal 2011, which ended Sept. 30, according to the Congressional Budget Office. That’s the lowest level since at least 1972.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...orate-taxes-40-year-low/?mobile=nc


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 1319 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 12):

So a grand or two in federal taxes, plus SS/Medicare plus any state income tax, plus sales tax...you'd be effectively taxing the poor 20-30%!

Yep. That should get them to start thinking about how they vote.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 12):
"Total corporate federal taxes paid fell to 12.1% of profits earned from activities within the U.S. in fiscal 2011, which ended Sept. 30, according to the Congressional Budget Office. That’s the lowest level since at least 1972.

Well Duh!!! We just came out of a big recession, with massive losses in the manufacturing and financial sectors. Those losses are carried forward. They do that so that the government doesn't have to actually pay out to loss-making companies.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinejohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 923 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 1303 times:

Let it expire. I've been paying into SS for 36 years and there better be something there when I retire in 10 more years!

User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6594 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1300 times:
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Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 7):
The Bush tax cuts were disproportionately targeted at the middle class and had the effect of shifting more of the tax burden on high income earners. That is to say, it made the tax code more progressive. Sorry for raining on your disinformation parade.

So why the big argument in letting them expire?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 1285 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 15):
So why the big argument in letting them expire?

Politics. People in the bottom half have gotten used to not paying any Federal Income Tax for the past decade, and any GOP politician knows that Dems will attack him for having raised taxes on the the bottom half, in spite of the fact that that 10 year tax holiday was exceptional - they always had to pay taxes before, and that the cut was temporary, so it's technically not a tax increase. Dems will sell it as an effective tax increase, and really they aren't wrong - after 10 years, it's a tax increase.

The mistake was making those tax cuts in the first place. Once you give someone a free pass for a long time, there is hell to pay when that pass expires. The GOP should have realized that back in 2001.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4022 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 1268 times:

So let me get this straight - Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid are bankrupt and you are opposed to making any actual contributions to it?

I really don't get it - every time someone brings up the true tax rate (including FICA taxes) we hear from liberals that it is not a tax, you get it when you retire / get sick, etc. And now that FICA might get reinstated for a lot of people suddenly it's a tax? What happened to getting it all back in the end?



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 1228 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Yep. That should get them to start thinking about how they vote.

Except your plan will push more people into poverty and make then even MORE reliant on whatever government help there is, so they'll vote for even more government help. Anyway you try to slice it, your plans are designed to aggressively attack the poor and drive them deeper into poverty....all so that guys like Mitt Romney can pay an even lower tax rate than the 16% he pays now.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 16):
they always had to pay taxes before

Not true. Even during the Clinton years about 30% of the population didn't pay any Federal withholding. Now it's closer to 45%, but much of that only happened in the past few years as incomes declined and people fell off the tax roles.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Well Duh!!! We just came out of a big recession, with massive losses in the manufacturing and financial sectors.

Sorry, but the effective Federal rate has been declining for the past 30 years.


User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12250 posts, RR: 35
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1145 times:
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Quoting propilot83 (Reply 11):
Hey hey hey, no I claim my self and my Mother, and I would only make about $12 less per week, not $40, sorry for calculation error. I hell sure dont make $2,000 a week, if I did, I would not have started this OP. I sure dont make $100,000 a year either, last year I only made like $12,000. I work part time as a sales merchandiser for the Kraft/Nabisco company.

You quoted the wrong person.....



911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1138 times:

Quoting propilot83 (Reply 11):
Hey hey hey, no I claim my self and my Mother, and I would only make about $12 less per week, not $40, sorry for calculation error. I hell sure dont make $2,000 a week, if I did, I would not have started this OP. I sure dont make $100,000 a year either, last year I only made like $12,000. I work part time as a sales merchandiser for the Kraft/Nabisco company.

Well $12 per week still works out to over $30K per year. If you were making $12K per year the impact on you of the tax cut (or loss thereof) is $4.60 per week. Can you handle that?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
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