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Apple Seeks Ban Of Galaxy Nexus In The US  
User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2319 times:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/11/27...-seeks-ban-on-Samsung-Galaxy-Nexus

Should they succeed in this, it'll render pretty much all Android and Windows Phone 7 smartphones illegal, as every version of both Android and Windows Phone at least uses a similar keyboard system.

54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineswissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2291 times:

Quoting racko (Thread starter):

http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/11/27...-seeks-ban-on-Samsung-Galaxy-Nexus

Should they succeed in this, it'll render pretty much all Android and Windows Phone 7 smartphones illegal, as every version of both Android and Windows Phone at least uses a similar keyboard system.

Well.. I guess there is always BB left     ... will be interesting how it will work out


cheerios,


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21460 posts, RR: 53
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2243 times:



Quoting racko (Thread starter):
Should they succeed in this, it'll render pretty much all Android and Windows Phone 7 smartphones illegal, as every version of both Android and Windows Phone at least uses a similar keyboard system.

No. It would only further cripple Android which is the point, not least in finally hitting at the core "vanilla" Android and at Google directly (in addition to the hardware maker Samsung).

Contrary to Google who ripped off iOS pretty directly and Samsung who further copied Apple's devices right down to the details, Microsoft has wisely given iOS wide berth and has uncharacteristically chosen to go with a completely new and largely original concept with Windows Phone.

Microsoft also has extensive cross-licensing agreements with Apple and I am not aware of any public conflicts between the two in the mobile area. Both are willing to pay for licensing and both have extensive patent resources.

Google, however, never licensed anything – they ripped off whatever they could and their primary priorities were a) Android should not cost them any money (as licensing IP from others such as Apple or Microsoft certainly would have) and b) giving it away to the hardware manufacturers and mobile carriers to modify and brand to their hearts' content as long as Google just got to sell mobile ads via mobile search and ad-financed mobile apps.

Unfortunately Steve Jobs had not been kidding when in the initial presentation of the iPhone he quipped "And boy, have we patented it!".

Google made the mistake of confusing the delay it took until these patents would actually be granted (three of the four in this new suit have just been granted now!) with their rip-off strategy just working fine forever, but that just isn't so.

In reality, Apple and Microsoft have started going after the Android hardware manufacturers first; While Microsoft has been after license payments and is by now extracting considerable fees from every Android device sold, Apple is primarily interested in keeping differentiation by refusing to license their IP at all wherever possible.

So this already makes it pretty meaningless that Google doesn't ask for a license fee for Android itself, since Microsoft certainly does – and that doesn't even protect them against additional demands from Apple or others. By comparison, licensees of Windows Phone are completely covered and protected by Microsoft – no further risk involved. Of course Microsoft is counting on that difference to sink in eventually.

But while Android licensees are still trying to salvage their existing strategy, some of them have begun to attempt an offensive counter-strategy. Both Samsung and Motorola hold patents which Apple must use in order to make a cellphone (or connected iPad) because they are part of the respective standards such as GSM and UMTS.

So it seems that some pinheads in either corporations' managements fell on the brilliant idea to weaponize these standard patents by demanding outrageously high royalties just from Apple which would have amounted to billions of dollars and which presumably would have incentivized Apple to agree to negotiating cross-licensing schemes so they would still be able to use Android as they had before.

They missed a crucial point, however:

Exactly those standard patents have so-called FRAND conditions attached to them exactly because they must be licensed by anyone who wants to enter the mobile market, meaning that licensing of these patents cannot be weaponized as Samsung and Motorola have just attempted to (including the attempt to specifically deny chip manufacturer Qualcomm the right to sell baseband chips to Apple with included usage licenses).

FRAND means "Fair, Reasonable And Non-Discriminatory" terms must be applied to licensing those specific standards-related patents to absolutely anyone, including – and that's the point – to direct competitors. That's the downside to the obvious upside that nobody can't get around asking for and paying for a license.

(Apple has no FRAND patents of their own in play – all their patents can be worked around, so still violating them as Google and others do is just a deliberate choice.)

Google has just announced that they intend to continue exactly on the same course Motorola has already taken, so Google has just explicitly hopped into the same boat with Motorola (which they are in the process of taking over) and Samsung.

Apple so far had refrained from opening direct hostilities towards Google, but that is over now. With the just-granted iPhone patents plus one which has already been successful against HTC at the notoriously sceptical ITC, they are now going after both Samsung (making the Galaxy Nexus) and Google directly, attacking not just any vendor's Android version but Googles reference Android implementation on which all others are based.

At the same time, the European Commission has just opened a formal investigation against Samsung for FRAND patent abuse (see above) which will likely include Motorola and Google before long the way things are going. And as a since-neutered Microsoft has learned the painful way, an EU anti-competitive-behaviour investigation is not to be trifled with.

What we're witnessing is effectively just the second act in Google reaping the results of its outright reckless conduct through the past few years.

When they had bought the Android project, it had still been a rip-off of RIM's Blackberry and Nokia's Symbian (and that's who they would probably have had a very similar fight with today). Directly after Apple's presentation of the iPhone, however, Google frantically remodeled it completely until it resembled the iPhone as closely as possible, without any considerations to the risks such a copycat strategy would incur.

Apple is known for usually taking the long view, often far beyond the horizon of its competitors, and they have grown far beyond Google's capability to bully them into submission.

Back then Google still thought they were invincible and that they could pull off whatever they wanted without any repercussions. Turns out they may have miscalculated, and the chickens are now coming home to roost after all.

[Edited 2012-02-12 08:29:20]

User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8016 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2213 times:

Klaus, I think if Apple succeeds to stopping Android, it will end up being iPhone, Windows Phone 7.x/8.x devices, and possibly an all-new cellphone OS with a unique interface running a modified version of embedded LInux.

Small wonder why Microsoft is speeding up the development of Windows Phone 8.0 ("Apollo"), which will support multicore ARM CPU's and also support features like NFC and 3GPP LTE. It also helps Microsoft's case that the Metro UI has a completely different "look and feel" compared to iOS.

[Edited 2012-02-12 09:26:28]

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21460 posts, RR: 53
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 3):
Klaus, I think if Apple succeeds to stopping Android, it will end up being iPhone, Windows Phone 7.x/8.x devices, and possibly an all-new cellphone OS with a unique interface running a modified version of embedded LInux.

Quite possibly, although a new entrant would have a lot of catching up to do and that needs pretty deep pockets. (Android itself uses a modified Linux core as well, by the way.)

Samsung seems to try keeping its powder dry in that regard, probably uneasily watching its direct competitor Motorola just getting swallowed by Google, the licensor of its current main system Android. This will automatically create a built-in conflict of interests which all Android licensees will have to live with from now on even if everything else works out fine.

Microsoft is almost irrelevant in the mobile market at this point, but it seems they're patiently chipping away at Android's profitability, undermining its business case until hardware manufacturers start defecting towards Windows Phone. Unless the Nokia WP phones start catching fire in the market that's probably their best bet at this point.

[Edited 2012-02-12 09:26:42]

User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2182 times:

I can't get over the fact of how incredibly ridiculous it is that these patents even get awarded in the first place. The problem is not even Apple and its "thermonuclear" war (though it says it a lot about the character of Steve Jobs that he is willing to spend tens of billions of dollars to destroy a competing operating system while Bill Gates spends the same amount destroying Malaria), the problem are the insame idiots working it patent offices.

1. Recognize phone number or URL and form a link

I don't even want to start at how much software does exactly that, for example the software running the discussion forums of airliners.net.

2. Search multiple sources through one interface

Metasearch engine have been around since the mid 90s.

3. Slide-to-Unlock

My grandmother's door has the physical equivalent. It's just a digitalization of those "slide locks" some people have on their doors in addition to their usual door lock.

4. Keyboard Word suggestions

All T9 phone keyboards do that, they wouldn't work otherwise. I.e. 4-6-6-3 can spell both good and home, T9 displays the most likely choice based on context which you can accept (by space) or dismiss. Been around since when, the late 90s?


User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6594 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2155 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting racko (Reply 5):
Steve Jobs that he is willing to spend tens of billions of dollars to destroy a competing operating system

Business is Business.

If you had what Apple has, would you give it away?

At the end of the day, this is the only thing that matters

http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ%3AAAPL



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2149 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 6):
If you had what Apple has, would you give it away?

Absolutely. I couldn't sleep at night knowing that I have more money than I could possibly spend in 10 lifetimes while other people are suffering horribly.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 6):
At the end of the day, this is the only thing that matters

http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASD...AAAPL

What a sad philosophy.


User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6594 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2144 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting racko (Reply 7):
What a sad philosophy.
Quoting racko (Reply 7):
Absolutely. I couldn't sleep at night knowing that I have more money than I could possibly spend in 10 lifetimes while other people are suffering horribly.

Google is suffering terribly?  

Maybe i wasn't clear - i meant to say that if you had what Apple has (in term of product) would you let a competitor get at it easily?

Quoting racko (Reply 7):
What a sad philosophy.

Agreed. But hey... thats world we live in.. I am just telling it you as it is.

BTW - How much money has Google given to save suffering people?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21460 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2138 times:

Quoting racko (Reply 5):
I can't get over the fact of how incredibly ridiculous it is that these patents even get awarded in the first place.

That the US patent system is broken even more thoroughly than others still are is agreed. But however it works, even if badly, it defines the kinds of ammunition available to manufacturers to gain or preserve advantages in the market.

All manufacturers are effectively forced to play that game by the rules defined by the system, and that means that all Apple developers are wasting countless hours in writing patent applications for even the most trivially obvious software mechanisms simply because it's stockpiling ammunition for future battles. And developers in all the other companies are doing just the same for just the same reasons.

Google has just recently discovered that in this fight they're almost naked and unarmed, which seems to have prompted their rather panicked purchase of Motorola at extortionate conditions. And indeed the fight has not stopped at the Android hardware manufacturers as they had initially believed but has begun to turn towards Mountain View as well. They can only hope that Motorola's initially attractive patent portfolio really warranted the steep price they're ready to pay. Observers have already voiced their doubts about that.

I'm grateful to be a developer in Germany where at least software patents are not yet(!) allowed to that extent, but where they are, that is how they are being used.

I'd rather prefer the patent system to be radically cut down to the bare essentials not least because its main effect today is large encumbents erecting gigantic barriers against the entry of new players to their markets. Which, not coincidentally, is pretty much what's happening with the incumbents Motorola and Samsung trying to freeze the recent upstart Apple out of a market which they had believed they had sewn up for themselves. Apple just has developed a bit too much momentum already for this age-old tactic to really work any more.

Quoting racko (Reply 5):
The problem is not even Apple and its "thermonuclear" war (though it says it a lot about the character of Steve Jobs that he is willing to spend tens of billions of dollars to destroy a competing operating system while Bill Gates spends the same amount destroying Malaria)

While Bill Gates is busy digging himself out of his carmic hole, Steve Jobs is already dead. Just in case you've missed that small but pertinent fact.


User currently offlineGSPflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. Apple just wants a monopoly in smart phones.

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21460 posts, RR: 53
Reply 11, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2127 times:

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 10):
Apple just wants a monopoly in smart phones.

Developing the iPhone took them years and many millions if not several billions of Dollars to achieve.

Watching the presentation and reverse engineering the iPhone after that was of course cheap and quick for the competition – for the same competition who was completely unable to come up with something like it before.

Apple is not preventing anyone to make smartphones. They just insist that others should use their own innovations, as Microsoft – for instance – is indeed doing to a significant degree.

What Google and particularly Samsung are doing, on the other hand, is not more than very thinly veiled plagiarism, and at least in the western world there are risks to such an approach.


User currently offlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 10):
Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. Apple just wants a monopoly in smart phones.

  

I'm stunned that a lot of these patents are even granted. I hope Apple gets shot down, and hard.



A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2109 times:

Quoting racko (Reply 5):

I can't get over the fact of how incredibly ridiculous it is that these patents even get awarded in the first place.

  

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
That the US patent system is broken even more thoroughly than others still are is agreed. But however it works, even if badly, it defines the kinds of ammunition available to manufacturers to gain or preserve advantages in the market.

There are plenty of good things. But there are also many problems. The biggest, IMO, is that you can patent an idea instead of an application. It should not be possible to patent that clicking on something that looks like a telephony numbers makes you call that number or that clicking on something that looks like a link opens that link. That is something extremely old and and is used daily when I ring door bells, press light switches, dial phone numbers, etc.

What should be patentable is the underlying technology to make it happen. Not that I put an action on something but rather the non obvious solution for identifying all numbers and email addresses in a text and placing the right kind of action on them much faster than brute force methods.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
I'd rather prefer the patent system to be radically cut down to the bare essentials not least because its main effect today is large encumbents erecting gigantic barriers against the entry of new players to their markets.

There are a lot of very valid patents granted each year. In many cases the patent is the only way the people who created something will be able to make a return. This is the great part of the patent system and should remain.

Then there are all the patents applied only to provide disruption to competition. They frequently are for obvious solutions but somehow manage to be granted anyway. These need to go away.


User currently offlineTCASAlert From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2108 times:

This will never happen. It never has yet with all the ridiculous patent 'infringements' served between M$, Google and CrApple. It is all pure marketing and is just the latest in a huge game of cat and mouse.

Not to mention the fact that this will be issued in the US, so this would only affect handsets in the US, not in the rest of the world, and finally (and most importantly) - it only affects stock Android (AOSP). Hardly any vendors issue handsets with stock Android, most have their own software. This won't affect this.

Quoting racko (Thread starter):
Should they succeed in this, it'll render pretty much all Android and Windows Phone 7 smartphones illegal, as every version of both Android and Windows Phone at least uses a similar keyboard system.

Nope they won't be illegal to own them, only for manufacturers to sell them. And in any case, all that will happen is a simple software update to change the way the keyboard works, as has happened on the other 1001 times Apple have issued a patent infringement.

So in essence - nothing to see here, folks.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21620 posts, RR: 55
Reply 15, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2105 times:

Quoting racko (Reply 5):
the problem are the insame idiots working it patent offices.

Yes, there are some ridiculous patents out there, but Google has some of them, too - Google Doodles being the first that comes to mind.

Quoting N867DA (Reply 12):
I'm stunned that a lot of these patents are even granted. I hope Apple gets shot down, and hard.

But they are granted. So Apple, rightly or wrongly (and if you ask me, wrongly) has the patents, and has the right to protect them.

The real solution would be to figure out how to stop granting patents for every little thing.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2086 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 8):
Maybe i wasn't clear - i meant to say that if you had what Apple has (in term of product) would you let a competitor get at it easily?

Sorry, misunderstood you then.

Quoting Mir (Reply 15):
Google Doodles being the first that comes to mind.

I thought you were kidding. You weren't. Jesus.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1655 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2046 times:

Sue them into oblivion when you can't compete honestly. Reminds me of Microsoft in the late 90's, early 2000's

User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2035 times:

Quoting Acheron (Reply 17):
Sue them into oblivion when you can't compete honestly.

I beg your pardon? How exactly is Apple unable to compete honestly and where is the honesty in patent infringement?

[Edited 2012-02-12 12:29:49]


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21460 posts, RR: 53
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2015 times:

Quoting Acheron (Reply 17):
Sue them into oblivion when you can't compete honestly. Reminds me of Microsoft in the late 90's, early 2000's

"…can't compete…". Sure.



And in your eyes Google's wholesale ripoff of the iPhone was an example of "honestly" competing?

Talking about a seriously skewed sense of honesty.  


User currently offlinedfwrevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 976 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2004 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 2):
Unfortunately Steve Jobs had not been kidding when in the initial presentation of the iPhone he quipped "And boy, have we patented it!".

IIRC, that specific quote was in reference to the multi-touch display hardware. That does not appear to be the infringement cited in the article.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
That the US patent system is broken even more thoroughly than others still are is agreed.

Does that still stand after the patent reform acts in 2009 and 2011? My understanding from my company's legal refresher is that those acts put the U.S. very close to international and EU patent laws, particularly in the area of "first to file" versus "first to invent."


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21460 posts, RR: 53
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1965 times:

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 20):
IIRC, that specific quote was in reference to the multi-touch display hardware. That does not appear to be the infringement cited in the article.

Out of context one might interpret it that way, but he was talking of "the multi-touch display" in the context of other fundamental user interface innovations like "the mouse" and "the click wheel", even though in all of these cases the actual hardware was the least of it; In all cases the entire user interface operated by these hardware devices contained large numbers of individual innovations (almost all of them in the software) within the larger conceptual one.

In this respect the multi-touch user interface was actually what he was referring to, substantially underscored by recent proceedings.

Quoting dfwrevolution (Reply 20):
Does that still stand after the patent reform acts in 2009 and 2011? My understanding from my company's legal refresher is that those acts put the U.S. very close to international and EU patent laws, particularly in the area of "first to file" versus "first to invent."

That is only a comparatively minor side aspect.

The main problems are:

a) Software patents are granted in the US while in Europe patents require a concrete implementation creating a specific physical effect (there is intense lobbying by large corporations to open that pandora's box in Europe as well).

b) Obviously trivial patents are granted in huge numbers in the US which are clearly on or even below the common state of the art even at date of filing. These are being deployed gratuitously as wide-area mine belts and bargaining chips for battles with competitors.

Even in Europe the patent system has gotten out of hand.

Particularly in the IT field patent grants should be shortened substantially to only a few(!) years; The required level of invention should be raised substantially; Protections should be transferred and/or limited mostly to the level of copyright enforcement and protection against visual plagiarism.

Patents have largely turned into monopoly instruments nowadays since only the big players can afford to amass the large stockpiles of patents needed to survive litigation by competitors any more. That is not what they were once intended for (at least not openly).


User currently offlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5711 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1957 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 11):
What Google and particularly Samsung are doing, on the other hand, is not more than very thinly veiled plagiarism, and at least in the western world there are risks to such an approach.

Well that's the Apple fanboy narrative. In reality there is more to the story. As always.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21460 posts, RR: 53
Reply 23, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1926 times:

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22):
Well that's the Apple fanboy narrative. In reality there is more to the story. As always.

Summarily insulting others from the sidelines is cheap, but also pointless.

Cogently arguing a point may advance the discussion, but it takes a bit more effort.


User currently offlineBirdwatching From Germany, joined Sep 2003, 3822 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1899 times:

I own the Galaxy Nexus for 2 weeks now, and my brother has bought the iPhone 4s recently.
We spent the weekend together and both had plenty of time to check out each other's device and try them side by side.
We both came to the conclusion that the Nexus is way better in about every way you can imagine.
How is it plagiarism if one product is highly superior than the other?

Beware of the Apple cheerleaders on A.net, they only have their one perspective and never even looked into the alternative.
Anybody who really looks into both options here, gives them both a chance and a try, will get a very different opinion.

Soren   



All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1655 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1966 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 18):
I beg your pardon? How exactly is Apple unable to compete honestly and where is the honesty in patent infringement?

This falls under patent trolling, when you sue for a patent you just registered a few months before(which is the case here). And even more so when you register a patent for things that are usually common and natural for an efficient setup and has been used for years without anybody bothering to patent so obvious ideas.

So yes, Apple is patent trolling to try and stop any competition against its iPhone.

[Edited 2012-02-12 14:35:14]

User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 26, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1951 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 3):

Klaus, I think if Apple succeeds to stopping Android, it will end up being iPhone, Windows Phone 7.x/8.x devices, and possibly an all-new cellphone OS with a unique interface running a modified version of embedded LInux.

Well there is BlackBerry 10, the upcoming OS for BlackBerry devices that is based off of QNX's Neutrino real time OS, and a variant used to power BlackBerry's PlayBook tablet (RIM bought QNX for their software.).

If Google has to rework Android and manufacturers have to redesign devices due to this lawsuit, this would be likely to work against Apple, as to some, these lawsuits can be seen as bullying.

Samsung is no stranger to lawsuits from other smartphone manufacturers. Several years back, they were sued by RIM over the name of one of their smartphones, the BlackJack because the name was similar to RIM's BlackBerry line of devices.

In similar vein, Kodak has sued Samsung, Apple, Fujifilm, Sony, JVC, LG, HTC, and RIM over patent infringement, most of them in the last several weeks and just prior to their bankruptcy filing (Although Kodak a few years back did sue Apple and RIM over patented tech.). Kodak is trying to made money on licensing their patents in regards to digital photography. Apple has fired back that some of the patents Kodak is claiming ownership on rightfully belongs to them.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/21/27...rship-kodak-patents-digital-camera

No wonder these devices are so expensive, these companies have to fork out no telling how much to gain a license to the technology. This is why you have some companies acquiring smaller companies to develop technology for their devices so they don't have to pay a licensing fee to say Apple, Kodak, etc.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21460 posts, RR: 53
Reply 27, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1972 times:

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 24):
I own the Galaxy Nexus for 2 weeks now, and my brother has bought the iPhone 4s recently.
We spent the weekend together and both had plenty of time to check out each other's device and try them side by side.
We both came to the conclusion that the Nexus is way better in about every way you can imagine.

Depends quite a bit on what you can imagine. I can easily imagine a set of priorities leading to such a conclusion.

But most people who are looking at both propositions and especially those who know both tend to come to a different conclusion. But that still does not invalidate yours. It just means that Android tends to fit a narrower set of priorities than the iPhone does.

The disparity between first-buyer and repeat-buyer market shares underscores that again.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 24):
How is it plagiarism if one product is highly superior than the other?

Whether a product is a plagiarized rip-off of another is exclusively a matter of the former having been copied from the other; Subjective or even objective qualities of the two are entirely independent of that.

Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 24):
Beware of the Apple cheerleaders on A.net, they only have their one perspective and never even looked into the alternative.
Anybody who really looks into both options here, gives them both a chance and a try, will get a very different opinion.

Hm. So you're saying that only one absolute conclusion was possible.

I disagree. For buyers and users it is not a matter of absolute right or wrong – it is a matter of good or bad fit to your particular needs and priorities.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21460 posts, RR: 53
Reply 28, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1963 times:

Quoting Acheron (Reply 25):
This falls under patent trolling, when you sue for a patent you just registered a few months before(which is the case here).

Nope. Not true.

Three of these patents were granted just recently, but they have been filed in 1996, 2004, 2009 and 2007, respectively, and the 1996-filed patent has just been freshly fireproofed by the ITC (banning HTC imports on its grounds until product changes done by HTC).

See FOSS Patents: Apple requests U.S. preliminary injunction against the Samsung Galaxy Nexus based on four high-power patents for additional background.

Just for the record: "Patent trolling" is still something entirely different from what you're claiming it to be, namely the act of pursuing patent litigation purely for the purpose of winning damages without ever actually applying the patent in question and thus never actually suffering any damage.

Entirely different thing.

Quoting Acheron (Reply 25):
And even more so when you register a patent for things that are usually common and natural for an efficient setup and has been used for years without anybody bothering to patent so obvious ideas.

Welcome to the US patent system where that is the fundamental operating principle. Half the US economy is based on that. Prior art, by the way, is still the sure death of a US patent if it can be substantiated.

So where is your substantiation with respect to the specific claims as filed?

Quoting Acheron (Reply 25):
So yes, Apple is patent trolling to try and stop any competition against its iPhone.

No, they are not "trolling" since they are in fact clearly primary users of the inventions they've filed and patented.

[Edited 2012-02-12 15:07:12]

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21460 posts, RR: 53
Reply 29, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1932 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 26):
If Google has to rework Android and manufacturers have to redesign devices due to this lawsuit, this would be likely to work against Apple, as to some, these lawsuits can be seen as bullying.

There will always be "some" who will hate any specific party in any dispute. But I doubt that the wrath of entrenched partisans on one side directed towards the respective "opposite" manufacturer will really make much if any difference – they were not likely to buy that manufacturer's products anyway. And most people in the middle will either not know the difference or see the verdict in the case as justified.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 26):
No wonder these devices are so expensive, these companies have to fork out no telling how much to gain a license to the technology.

That's indeed one of the reasons why the patent system should be cut down to an actual sensible level.

In this current litigation battle Samsung and Motorola have attempted to jack up the licensing costs for Apple to prohibitive levels which has certainly contributed to Apple now resorting to their own bigger calibers as well, and which has brought them into conflict with FRAND and anti-trust authorities which can quickly develop into an even larger threat to them than even Apple could be, basically stepping on the dragon's tail by accident while grappling with the 800-pound gorilla...   

Google is already on the EU Commission's radar for privacy violations; Stacking abusive FRAND violations (via their soon-to-be Motorola subsidiary) on top of these will definitely not win them any favours and could substantially threaten even their primary business case.


User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2153 posts, RR: 16
Reply 30, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1938 times:

Quoting Acheron (Reply 17):
Sue them into oblivion when you can't compete honestly. Reminds me of Microsoft in the late 90's, early 2000's

Apple is the new Microsoft. I've been an exclusive Apple user, owning a Mac since 1994, and have watched the company closely ever since then - have seen it go through much change and moving from being a triple A first class computer company into mediocrity as a gadget company.

And now, I see it become the bully on the street, trying to protect it's golden goose - a goose made in China without regard for worker's rights.

Whatever happened to Apple? Who knows. Who cares, they're just another abusive company now, one that'll never get one cent from me ever again.

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 22):
Well that's the Apple fanboy narrative. In reality there is more to the story. As always.

   quite so.

asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4627 posts, RR: 36
Reply 31, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1936 times:

These "patent wars" seem to be off and on every few months now. Hard to keep up haha. I think apple has a case against Samsung at least. Remember when the Galaxy first came out? It was obvious that the homescreens were a copy of iOS. Even the icons looked the same!

I haven't heard much of Nokia in these patent wars lately, mind you most of their patents are hardware related (and they own a TON of them).

Software Nokia's hands are clean because they have Symbian (older than all other mobile OS) and now Windows Phone like Klaus said, is obviously not copying anybody.

Anyway it'll be interesting to see how this plays out!



Word
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21460 posts, RR: 53
Reply 32, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1916 times:

Quoting Asturias (Reply 30):
Apple is the new Microsoft.

Making crappy products and ramming them down everybody's throats by sheer market dominating force? Not my experience so far, and despite massively ramping up production, they still can't keep their products in stock until months after release.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 30):
I've been an exclusive Apple user, owning a Mac since 1994, and have watched the company closely ever since then - have seen it go through much change and moving from being a triple A first class computer company into mediocrity as a gadget company.

I'm using their products for pretty much the same period and I must say that product quality has massively increased since the old days. So have sales, but being the only user of a specific product has never had any appeal to me. But hey, opinions differ.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 30):
And now, I see it become the bully on the street, trying to protect it's golden goose

Getting ripped off by a formerly close partner does things to you (Eric Schmidt had been sitting on Apple's board all through the development of the original iPhone, and Google and Apple had been very close before Google blew things up by making Android a close copy of the iPhone). I don't have Jobs' temper, but I would have been seriously angry at that as well.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 30):
a goose made in China without regard for worker's rights.

A goose created in Cupertino (where almost everything is happening which actually makes it what it is) and manufactured according to precise specifications in China.

While that straw man argument is being trotted out whenever it's about riling up emotions against Apple, the much more complicated truth of the matter is that:

a) Apple does in fact exhibit quite a bit of regard for workers' rights (including – as the only brand so far – independent inspections of their suppliers' facilities, but also substantially better pay and other improvements).

b) I would really like to see your concrete comparison to any other major brand and their concern for their chinese (or other low-wage) supply chains.

c) It is something nobody wants to think about who's loudly complaining about products being "overpriced" until they've really hit the bottom of the barrel, but the stunningly low prices we're paying for electronic products are inherently based on very low wages in the supply chains which had been moved to China and other countries with widespread poverty and where even the low wages paid in those factories still represent climbing up the social ladder.

I would really want to see more genuine concern for worker's conditions but I'm not impressed a lot with cheap crocodile tears being shed while completely ignoring the much wider scope of these issues.

As I've repeatedly said: I would not have a problem paying a few hundred Euros more to see these products made over here, but that is just not happening any more. So I have to settle for paying just a little more to see chinese workers treated not as a european worker would be but at least better than their peers working for other brands. I agree that there's still plenty of room for improvement, but I for my part don't refuse to look at the entire problem while I'm at it.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 30):
Whatever happened to Apple? Who knows. Who cares, they're just another abusive company now, one that'll never get one cent from me ever again.

Getting emotional is easy. Looking into the actual, factual background of complex issues may be more tedious, but at least from my point of view it's still the way to go.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21460 posts, RR: 53
Reply 33, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1904 times:

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 31):
These "patent wars" seem to be off and on every few months now.

They've actually been "on" for quite a while, but only the major developments usually make the general news. These have indeed been coming in increasing frequency and severity lately, however.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 31):
I haven't heard much of Nokia in these patent wars lately, mind you most of their patents are hardware related (and they own a TON of them).

Indeed. And they have leveraged these to extract a multi-hundred-million settlement from Apple already. Still a far cry from the far higher demands Samsung and Motorola have been making recently. Nokia also hasn't fallen into the trap of attempting to unduly weaponize their FRAND patents, and of course they're switching to Windows Phone right now which is covered completely by Microsoft on the software side, who again have a patent truce with Apple.

Microsoft actually supports Apple's recent actions against FRAND violations perpetrated by Samsung and Motorola, as do Qualcomm and Cisco – Apple is gathering an alliance for an official clarification of transparent FRAND licensing rules which is in the interest of many players while Motorola's and Samsung's interest appears to be to keep these intransparent and under the table as they've been so far (which is in contradiction to what FRAND intends).

Apple is not just the 800-pound gorilla in this fight, they're also playing it a bit smarter than their opponents seem to do.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 31):
Anyway it'll be interesting to see how this plays out!

Indeed!


User currently offlineairportugal310 From Tokelau, joined Apr 2004, 3632 posts, RR: 2
Reply 34, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1902 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 32):
a) Apple does in fact exhibit quite a bit of regard for workers' rights (including – as the only brand so far – independent inspections of their suppliers' facilities, but also substantially better pay and other improvements).

I typically see that you are fairly pro-Apple, and that's cool, and you also backup what you say.

However, I can't agree with you here. They may take care of their corporate office employees, however, we have all seen the news about the Chinese workers. Being treated well doesn't typically come with the "let's jump out of windows" protest. Though it may be out of Apple's direct control, there is something 'up' with that. Asking their contractor's in China to make sure their employees are being well taken care of should be a top priority.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 32):
b) I would really like to see your concrete comparison to any other major brand and their concern for their chinese (or other low-wage) supply chains.

The concrete proof is there...after workers who have finally had enough...hit it hard enough...
I don't hear this about other major brands and their contracted workers.



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21460 posts, RR: 53
Reply 35, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1876 times:

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 34):
The concrete proof is there...after workers who have finally had enough...hit it hard enough...
I don't hear this about other major brands and their contracted workers.

The operative phrase being "I don't hear this…".

You're hearing what's fit to sell copies and page impressions, not the more complicated truth of the matter.

The truth is that there had been 17 suicides among workers at a Foxconn plant in 2010 presented as "proof" of absolutely, outrageously horrible working conditions which supposedly "proved" that Apple products were basically steeped in the blood of chinese workers.

And that outrage is being warmed over at any possible instance since then, with hardly any research going into the actual reality of the matter.

So what is the reality of the matter?

Each of the suicides is in fact horrible and a tragedy.

What none of the outraged reports bothered to report, however, is what the actual relation to the total number of workers was.

Not surprisingly, because when viewed in context, the picture is not fit for outrage to the extent that it would have the same sales-boosting effect for the respective medium:

The Foxconn plant in question employed not a few hundred, but in fact about one million workers in total.

What would be the average number of suicides among the same number of one million people in the general chinese population?

222

Among the US population?

118

Among the german population?

95

(From List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

The massively hyped number of Foxconn workers having committed suicide in 2010 as "proof" that Apple was actively abusing its supply chain workers?

17 (seventeen)

Even that reality remains sobering enough after all the blind outrage has been stripped away, but it simply doesn't say anything like what you've been made to believe. You've been lied to, in effect.

This is a complicated matter. Much of our convenience and our enjoyment of cheap electronics is inherently linked with people in developing countries working hard and often under harsh conditions to make these products as cheap as we've come to expect them to be.

The media have largely latched on to Apple because they're the "big dog" now, and one can't blame them entirely – once you rise to the top, you're carrying a more than proportionate share of the responsibility as well, doubly so if you're making fabulous profits at the same time.

Before every single one of their chinese workers enjoys protections and conditions as in the better jobs in western countries, nobody will be able to say that Apple did "enough" to ensure their well-being.

But you should at least be aware that the same media which are spoon-feeding you patently false conclusions from half-understood or completely ignored contexts are giving all other manufacturers a completely free pass at the same time.

That you haven't "heard" from other manufacturers isn't because they were treating their workers any better – with their razor-thin margins they couldn't afford that even if they wanted to! – you don't hear about them because news about Dell, Acer, Samsung or HP simply doesn't sell even remotely as well as any piece that has the keyword "Apple" in it (same here in the forum).

Fact is that Apple is quite acutely aware of the heightened level of scrutiny they are subjected to, and they actually do pressure their supply chain (beyond just their immediate suppliers) to introduce improvements, ensure worker protections and pay decent wages. And this pressure does indeed seem to bear fruit.

That that is still an uphill struggle in China today can be seen in Apple's official reports on their regular auditing (going back to 2007), but they are actually a rare exception in how far they already go with these efforts, as insufficient as they may still appear. When you're looking at products from competitors, chances are very high that they've been manufactured in the same or in neighboured facilities – just under actually worse conditions. These other brands know well why they're usually much less open about their workers' conditions!

Apple - Supplier Responsibility
Apple - Supplier Responsibility - Reports

I think that beyond the patent battles this still remains an important issue, and as much as it is being used to rile up emotions against Apple, it is also a strong argument for keeping a cooler mind and to try looking beyond just the surface and beyond claims "everybody knows" (or think they know!).

I'm entirely with you in demanding the utmost efforts from Apple in this matter, but I demand the same standards to be applied to all other manufacturers as well!


User currently offlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1866 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 35):

I understand enjoying a company's products and supporting their vision. But sometimes I wonder if you're paid to post some of this stuff!  



A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2153 posts, RR: 16
Reply 37, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1867 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 32):
Making crappy products and ramming them down everybody's throats by sheer market dominating force?

That's being unfair to Microsoft, they made mediocre products and rammed them down everyone's throats by sheer market dominating force. Like Apple of today. At the time, being a Mac user, I appreciated that Apple made far better products and Microsoft made products that "worked", did their job, but were lackluster, incomplete in many ways, overhyped, buggy and overpriced. Again, Apple of today.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 32):
I'm using their products for pretty much the same period and I must say that product quality has massively increased since the old days.

My first Mac from 1994 still works. My iMac from 2006 (motherboard failed after 2 years) does not. Nor does my Powerbook from 2005 (screen backlight failed after 3 years) or my iBook from 2004 (motherboard failed after 2 years). My iMac from 1998 still works fine, so does my mother's 12" PB from 2003.

Quality was good, but has tapered off since about 2004 in my experience. Perhaps earlier. A Mac Classic from the 80s is more likely to work today than a 5 year old iMac. And you think quality has increased. Quite the contrary.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 32):
Getting ripped off by a formerly close partner does things to you

Yeah if one is an emotionally unstable egocentric with a limited grasp of reality, as Steve Jobs was - and actually thinks one is being ripped off when one does little else than rip off other people. Steve misunderstood Picasso when he quoted him "great artists steal", which says a lot about the intellectual shallowness of Jobs, but he also mentioned that he was quite shameless about stealing ideas.

And then ape when he feels others do that to "his" ideas (not that he had many himself, but I digress)

Quoting Klaus (Reply 32):
A goose created in Cupertino (where almost everything is happening which actually makes it what it is) and manufactured according to precise specifications in China.

A goose *designed* in California, no more.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 32):
Getting emotional is easy. Looking into the actual, factual background of complex issues may be more tedious, but at least from my point of view it's still the way to go.

I'm sure you'd know everything about how it is easy to get emotional about this subject, I clearly stated that I don't care about any particulars of why Apple changed. It just changed, that's that.

I'm sure it's the best for them, and that's where we (me and Apple) part ways. I'll be sure to pick up an Apple product again if they ever start making insanely good ones, instead of insanely mediocre ones.

asturias



Tonight we fly
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8016 posts, RR: 5
Reply 38, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1864 times:

In the end, the fact that Android 2.x and 4.0 on cellphones has a look of the "look and feel" of iOS could end up dooming that OS to legal oblivion, and that could be VERY costly to Google, Samsung, HTC, LG, and other Android cellphone makers. It could mean Microsoft by essentially default becomes the only serious competitor to the iPhone, since it's very obvious that Apple can't sue Microsoft over "look and feel" issues since Windows Phone's Metro interface is so wildly different than iOS.

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21460 posts, RR: 53
Reply 39, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1861 times:

Quoting N867DA (Reply 36):
I understand enjoying a company's products and supporting their vision. But sometimes I wonder if you're paid to post some of this stuff!

Sometimes it does feel like work, indeed.   

But no; I just appreciate the few exceptions of companies actually giving a damn about their actual products in a wasteland of greed, shortsightedness and neglect with most of the others.

I'm a developer myself (using Apple products, but not currently developing for them); I'm acutely aware of the huge difference between prioritizing actual product quality and user experience opposed to just going through the motions to meet formal or marketing goals.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1655 posts, RR: 2
Reply 40, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1837 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 39):

In the end, the fact that Android 2.x and 4.0 on cellphones has a look of the "look and feel" of iOS could end up dooming that OS to legal oblivion, and that could be VERY costly to Google, Samsung, HTC, LG, and other Android cellphone makers.

Out of curiosity, why hasn't Apple sued HP over WebOS interface if they are so worried about "their" IP?. It looks and feel like iOS as much of Android.

Ah yeah, WebOS is pretty much dead so it doesn't represent a threat to their revenue, while Android phones do. Not to mention, HP probably has enough patents to rape-sue Apple into an early death, which is why they don't sue Microsoft either over other things.


User currently offlineczbbflier From Canada, joined Jul 2006, 973 posts, RR: 2
Reply 41, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1808 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 35):
This is a complicated matter. Much of our convenience and our enjoyment of cheap electronics is inherently linked with people in developing countries working hard and often under harsh conditions to make these products as cheap as we've come to expect them to be.
Quoting Klaus (Reply 35):
But you should at least be aware that the same media which are spoon-feeding you patently false conclusions from half-understood or completely ignored contexts are giving all other manufacturers a completely free pass at the same time.

Very good points, Klaus but...

Time out for a sec.

The same goes for absolutely every industry and product that we enjoy in the West.

For example. I just par-boiled a neat little package of edamame for dinner. Only after did I notice that the package of edamame was a product of China. The bag I bought was on "special" at the Japanese grocery store for 85 cents but has a regular price of $2.75.

Let's say the store sold me the edamame AT COST at 85 cents (which I actually doubt). After packaging, transportation across the Pacific Ocean, etc, how much made it back to the farm labourers who actually planted and picked it? Less than a penny, I'd suggest.

This conversation could AND SHOULD be held regarding absolutely every product that we purchase that comes from China. And that's a lot of discussion.

For starters, Naomi Klein's NO LOGO does an excellent job of exposing the horrendous working conditions and secretive relationships that exist between the brands we "cherish" and the workers who produce the products.

Nobody's hands are clean. Or without blood- in this instance.

* * * * *

Quoting Asturias (Reply 38):
That's being unfair to Microsoft, they made mediocre products and rammed them down everyone's throats by sheer market dominating force. Like Apple of today.

Funny. Not even 5 years ago, Apple was still seen to be on life support because of how irrelevant and puny they were. Comparisons were pulled out of hats by those who are labeled "Apple fan-boys" comparing the cash-flow of Apple versus Coca-Cola (clearly a global giant) to show that Apple was not insolvent or on the verge of collapse.

Suddenly they're the goliath. Maybe, just maybe, it's because they spend time to design, manufacture and sell a product (and related services) that people actually want, appreciate and enjoy purchasing... and using.

Quoting Asturias (Reply 38):
Quality was good, but has tapered off since about 2004 in my experience. Perhaps earlier. A Mac Classic from the 80s is more likely to work today than a 5 year old iMac. And you think quality has increased. Quite the contrary.

This, my friend, is not specific to Apple. I do agree that the longevity of their products is shorter. That said, is that not the case across the board? At least with Apple, they provide realistic warrantees that allow for repairs and replacement (under very generous conditions, I might add). Don't see that with other manufacturers.

Also, it seems to me that with the pace of innovation and technological advancement, as well as the multi-dimentional sophistication of software these days, what good is a 10-year old computer anyway?


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6858 posts, RR: 75
Reply 42, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1791 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 27):
But most people who are looking at both propositions and especially those who know both tend to come to a different conclusion. But that still does not invalidate yours. It just means that Android tends to fit a narrower set of priorities than the iPhone does.

Well, I looked at both, the proposition given to me was on a "money isn't the issue" basis, and chose Android... (and I keep hearing "accusations" that people who chose android are those who cannot afford or don't want to pay for iOS... well, not in my case anyways).

I live in the land of the Blackberry... looked at both iOS and Android. My office has a "no Blackberry for work" policy, work amongst iOS fans, and we all agree both are not identical, Android is there to cater for "device over experience", and Apple is there to cater for "experience over device" (although we sometimes wonder why that is so).

(At least Android and iOS users here agree, Blackberry's days maybe numbered here...)

Quoting N867DA (Reply 36):
I understand enjoying a company's products and supporting their vision. But sometimes I wonder if you're paid to post some of this stuff!

We call it, "blinded by affection", they do a better job at times!   

Quoting Asturias (Reply 38):
Quality was good, but has tapered off since about 2004 in my experience. Perhaps earlier. A Mac Classic from the 80s is more likely to work today than a 5 year old iMac. And you think quality has increased. Quite the contrary.

And many of my Apple user friends, moved back to Windows for their computers...

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 39):
In the end, the fact that Android 2.x and 4.0 on cellphones has a look of the "look and feel" of iOS could end up dooming that OS to legal oblivion, and that could be VERY costly to Google, Samsung, HTC, LG, and other Android cellphone makers.

Look and feel? I looked at the iOS, and the Android... used iOS, didn't like it, went for Android... "look and feel"? Not in my eyes.



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19682 posts, RR: 58
Reply 43, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1774 times:

Quoting TCASAlert (Reply 14):
This will never happen. It never has yet with all the ridiculous patent 'infringements' served between M$, Google and CrApple. It is all pure marketing and is just the latest in a huge game of cat and mouse.

This is no different than that suit to stop all Toyota Hybrid sales in the U.S. Good luck to Apple, but this is simply use of the courts to inconvenience a rival and it should be illegal.


User currently offlinescrubbsywg From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (2 years 7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1771 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 27):
Whether a product is a plagiarized rip-off of another is exclusively a matter of the former having been copied from the other; Subjective or even objective qualities of the two are entirely independent of that.

However, my(admittedly somewhat weak) understanding of patents is one of their main goals is to publish the art that is being patented and not keep them secret. The reasoning for this is it allows others to take that art, improve on it, and patent it themselves as improvements of prior art. This is what makes the patent system work.

So, if that is one method of getting a patent, there must be some way the patent office determines something is an improvement. If it works better(less CPU usage, greater speed, better responsiveness, etc.) it can be called an improvement of a previous patent.


User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 45, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1579 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 35):
The Foxconn plant in question employed not a few hundred, but in fact about one million workers in total.

Foxconn builds stuff for quite a few companies, but not everything they build for companies is built at one of their factories in China. They have factories in Mexico, India, the Czech Republic, and Brazil as well. Like you said, you really don't heard much about incidents involved the other factories that don't make Apple devices (Although a few years ago, a disgruntled ex-employee caused a group of employees at one of their Mexican factories to set fire to a building there. http://www.pcworld.com/article/19000...lant_work_of_angry_exemployee.html )


Quoting RayChuang (Reply 38):
It could mean Microsoft by essentially default becomes the only serious competitor to the iPhone, since it's very obvious that Apple can't sue Microsoft over "look and feel" issues since Windows Phone's Metro interface is so wildly different than iOS.

You still can't rule out Research In Motion and their upcoming new BlackBerry 10 OS and the devices being rolled out with it. In fact, they are talking about possibly licensing it out to other device manufacturers. So if the newest Android OS gets scuttled by this lawsuit, RIM could become a fallback option.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/23/27...n-to-licensing-BB10-blackberry-ceo


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5588 posts, RR: 8
Reply 46, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1574 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 45):
You still can't rule out Research In Motion and their upcoming new BlackBerry 10 OS and the devices being rolled out with it. In fact, they are talking about possibly licensing it out to other device manufacturers. So if the newest Android OS gets scuttled by this lawsuit, RIM could become a fallback option.

Regarding BB, they to have a link select and phone number select function baked into them. How old is that function for them?

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineBlueElephant From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 1813 posts, RR: 6
Reply 47, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1526 times:

I have a question and then a comment.

Question - Android has had a slide down notification bar since its first versions. Apple recently added this in IOS5, who copied who in this case? and if it's Apple, why are they being so hypocritical.

My comment is, that I think all of this is stupid. The patents that Apple are going after google for are probably the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. The truth of the matter here is that Apple is getting worried. They're scared becasue of things like this:
http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/06/n...hare-in-q4-2011-but-android-draws/

I'm going to go copywrite the word 'the' and then sue you all for using it.

To be honest, (and I own an ipod touch), The Galaxy Nexus is the best phone i've ever owned.


User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 903 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 47):
The truth of the matter here is that Apple is getting worried.

Honestly? You really believe that? A record year with sales and profits and you believe Apple are getting worried?

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 47):
Question - Android has had a slide down notification bar since its first versions. Apple recently added this in IOS5, who copied who in this case? and if it's Apple, why are they being so hypocritical.

I read somewhere something along the lines of Palm creating this. I may be wrong, just what I read on another forum.



The amazing tale of flight.
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 49, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1506 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 45):
You still can't rule out Research In Motion and their upcoming new BlackBerry 10 OS

One of my golf buddies is en electrical engineer at RIM. He carries two phone. The company BB and his personal Android.


User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3635 posts, RR: 5
Reply 50, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1463 times:

Quoting virginblue4 (Reply 48):
Honestly? You really believe that? A record year with sales and profits and you believe Apple are getting worried?

Apple has been one of those companies that look beyond the latest results (which is good). Android phones have been on the rise and I am sure Apple is taking this into account. A company's strategy is never based (or at least shouldn't be) on the latest end-year results. Apple became a big player in the phone industry almost overnight and set aside the "established" manufacturers. This is technology, things change fast and sustainability of one's market share is crucial. It is no wonder that they are looking at the competition and how it is all going to unravel in the next few years.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19682 posts, RR: 58
Reply 51, posted (2 years 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1462 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 49):

One of my golf buddies is en electrical engineer at RIM. He carries two phone. The company BB and his personal Android.

Yup, and I have a bunch of friends who work at Google who carry iPhones.

A lot of them carry androids, too. My friend who works in their Android OS division carries an Android phone.


User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 52, posted (2 years 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1295 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 46):
Regarding BB, they to have a link select and phone number select function baked into them. How old is that function for them?

Not really sure, as I didn't get my first BlackBerry until about 18 months ago. It's a pretty cool feature, as I used it once to call up a supplier we occasionally get stuff through, and then put the number in my contacts.

Quoting cmf (Reply 49):
One of my golf buddies is en electrical engineer at RIM. He carries two phone. The company BB and his personal Android.

Nothing unusual there, as most folks I know that have a company provided phone also have a personal phone that is typically a different brand/OS/etc.


User currently offlineairportugal310 From Tokelau, joined Apr 2004, 3632 posts, RR: 2
Reply 53, posted (2 years 7 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1244 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 35):

Thanks Klaus. I will read this over and go from here. Appreciate the info!

-AP310



I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 54, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1164 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 6):
If you had what Apple has, would you give it away?

Was it even theirs to begin with? Who knows.

Quoting racko (Reply 5):
3. Slide-to-Unlock

My grandmother's door has the physical equivalent. It's just a digitalization of those "slide locks" some people have on their doors in addition to their usual door lock.

Good observation! Maybe Apple should go after those people, too!   



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