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Mercedes Reverses Position- S-Class Diesel In USA  
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1855 times:

The new Mercedes-Benz S-Class diesel sedan, named the S350 BlueTEC, is hardly new territory for Mercedes-Benz, but the three-pointed star has stayed out of the premium diesel arena in this market for more than a decade. There aren’t many 300SD S-class sedans sold here in the 1980s still running around (at least not in Phoenix) after 30 years on the road, but the brand’s classic diesels are recognized as being among the world’s most reliable vehicles. However, most of the diesels that Mercedes sold recently in America were E-class sedans or wagons. Now, in the age of high petrol costs and heightened focus on efficient motoring, some premium large sedan buyers would prefer a diesel powered option.

2012 Mercedes S350 sedan


The S350 BlueTEC is Mercedes answer for these buyers. The S350 BlueTEC is powered by the same 3.0-liter turbodiesel V6 which can also be found in the E-Class sedan and GL and ML SUVs in the USA. To position the S350 above the E-class Mercedes-Benz models, the company has fitted this large sedan with standard 4Matic all-wheel-drive. Even with its huge size and weight the S350 BlueTEC is rated by the EPA at a highly respectable 21 city / 31 mpg highway. That 31mpg highway fuel economy means that the S350 BlueTEC has a range of over 750 miles on a tank of fuel, making this car perhaps the ultimate long-distance interstate cruiser. While the V-6 diesel engine does not produce much in terms of horsepower (only 260 ponies are under the hood), the diesel's real shining quality is that it makes a massive 455 pounds of torque! Which makes passing on a two-lane road or on the freeway easy, especially for a 4500 pound car.

The only problem? The price. The base price of the diesel S-Class is over $94,500 dollars. But Mercedes move to make diesel power an option in the S-class could force BMW to offer a diesel powered 7-series sedan in America as a response - and perhaps we will see a diesel powered Audi A8 or Jaguar XJ sedan here too.

[Edited 2012-02-15 17:06:43]

[Edited 2012-02-15 17:19:13]

[Edited 2012-02-15 17:31:14]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 964 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1850 times:

I thought the diesel was dead in the US?  

User currently offlineSEA From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1846 times:

The S-class diesel has been on sale in the US for over a year now.

Though the base price is higher than the base petrol S-class, it's worth noting that it's cheaper than the S-class hybrid and manages better fuel economy.


User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1843 times:

Quoting SEA (Reply 2):
The S-class diesel has been on sale in the US for over a year now.

Really? It appears that the 2012 model year was when the turbodiesel was re-introduced to the S-class?



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineLOT767-300ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1817 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 3):
Really? It appears that the 2012 model year was when the turbodiesel was re-introduced to the S-class?

They've been on sale since September.

In the first month they managed to sell something like 50 to 60 of them. No one buys these for fuel economy in the US, and why would people want to be subjected to 15-20% higher diesel prices by buying one of these even if they probably care less than the rest of us about the fillup.

For $95k its a joke.


User currently offlinepoLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1812 times:

I believe that 2012 is the first model year for the S-class diesel in the US, but that it has been on sale for awhile now.

User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1802 times:

Quoting SEA (Reply 2):
Though the base price is higher than the base petrol S-class, it's worth noting that it's cheaper than the S-class hybrid and manages better fuel economy.

Do correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that the S550 is more expensive than the S350 BlueTEC, which in turn is more expensive than the S400 Hybrid. However, the (base) prices are indeed very close to each other and one should bear in mind that the 350 BlueTEC is only offered in the (more expensive) 4MATIC version whereas the 550 is offered in both standard and 4MATIC, and the 400 is only offered in standard.

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 1):
I thought the diesel was dead in the US?

Nope, not quite yet apparently.

Speedbird741



Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1789 times:

Its cool and all but if you can dish out 90k for a car you really don't care about fuel costs.


Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1765 times:

Quoting flanker (Reply 7):
Its cool and all but if you can dish out 90k for a car you really don't care about fuel costs.

Yes, which is why a lot of this is only marginally relevant. But, you can bet that livery services do care about fuel and I imagine they will quite like the diesel S.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinefbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3706 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1740 times:

Quoting flanker (Reply 7):
Its cool and all but if you can dish out 90k for a car you really don't care about fuel costs.

Although the price differential is rather different for petrol, in the UK the diesel S Class has been the second best selling of the range after the S500 for about 10 years now.



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1631 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):
which is why a lot of this is only marginally relevant

No, this is all but marginally relevant. If it were, Mercedes, which is an extremely well managed automaker, would not be incurring the costs of placing the 350 or the 400 in the US market.

Quoting flanker (Reply 7):
if you can dish out 90k for a car you really don't care about fuel costs.

For that to hold, you need to assume that every person in the US who purchases a certain range of the S class models (90-120K) have that lump sum amount ready to be disposed of. This is very far from true, particularly in the US, where financing and leasing options are more than you can count and are often times even assumed to be the method of purchase when you go to the car dealer. Operational costs (fuel, maintenance, etc) do matter as they factor somewhat significantly in the monthly cost of owning and operating the car. And the 350/400 have a (clearly) significant advantage with respect to reducing these costs. Further, you need also consider the possibility of customers who used to purchase models in the E class segment (the upper models of course) now have the extra incentive to jump up to the S. I should also note that even if you do have the 90-120K to dispose of on the spot, you may also care about fuel costs. Some do realize that there is absolutely no need to own a V8 or a V12 when, well, quite simply, you have to abide by the ridiculously low speed limits in the US. The notion that just because you have money, you can spend it around like it's grown in a tree isn't all that true.

Quoting fbgdavidson (Reply 9):
in the UK the diesel S Class has been the second best selling of the range after the S500 for about 10 years now.

Now that's an interesting bit of information!

Speedbird741



Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7296 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1618 times:

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 12):
Now that's an interesting bit of information!

It's probably the same all over Europe.


User currently onlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3619 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1597 times:

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 12):
Operational costs (fuel, maintenance, etc) do matter as they factor somewhat significantly in the monthly cost of owning and operating the car. And the 350/400 have a (clearly) significant advantage with respect to reducing these costs.

Not really. Drive it 15,000 miles/ year and you will save ~$350 in fuel costs over the hybrid, which last I looked is the cheapest S class available. The S400 is a (very) mild hybrid with only 20hp electric motor and is seriously lacking compared to the competition. They can and will do better with that. The question becomes, what can they do with diesel to gain significant savings?

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 10):
Only if you're a buffoon that buys into the whole "hybrids are holier than thou" crap   
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 11):
Why am I surprised our own anti diesel baffoon hasn't popped into this thread!

I come here all in good fun. If you need to resort to name calling, you have already lost the debate.

Beyond that, this thread is old news and reflects somebody trying desperately to find good news on the diesel front. This car has been for sale here for at least 6 months.


User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1586 times:

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 10):
For that to hold, you need to assume that every person in the US who purchases a certain range of the S class models (90-120K) have that lump sum amount ready to be disposed of. This is very far from true, particularly in the US, where financing and leasing options are more than you can count and are often times even assumed to be the method of purchase when you go to the car dealer.

Not to start on a war, but I disagree with 87.9% of your argument.

Unless you are dishing out 90 grand up front, you would be crazy to even get financing for that type of a sum.

These cars are marketed for people who make hundreds of thousands of dollars per year and companies as well. These are executives. Hence why its an executive saloon.

People who would come in to buy RS4s, A8s and the like would have checks ready for the full price.

A chap came in and bought an RS4 in 2008 along with a brand new TT for his wife all in one check, same as the guy who traded his Maserati and W12 for a S5. ( he really loved the S5)

Getting financing on that type of a car unless you put down a substantial amount of money is not feasible as the payments are will be in the thousands per month. No smart and well off person would ever opt to spend thousands more than he/she already has to. not to mention have liability for a 90k car that isn't payed off.

Small companies might lease these vehicles but that's another issue.

So now we go back to the original point, people who buy $85k to 100+K most likely pay up front and don't necessarily worry about gas prices.

To add another point about what you said about financing, it is not at all easy to get it anymore for most people.

[Edited 2012-02-16 10:09:33]

[Edited 2012-02-16 10:10:18]


Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1514 times:

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 10):
No, this is all but marginally relevant.

Marginally relevant in terms of saving fuel because 1) people buying diesel S-Classes are probably doing so to drive something greener rather than that they are getting killed by fuel costs, except perhaps car services and 2) making all the S-Classes more efficient isn't going to make much of a dent in oil consumption. Just like how it's silly to talk about the 5000 or whatever Volts as if they were going to save the world.

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 10):
This is very far from true, particularly in the US, where financing and leasing options are more than you can count and are often times even assumed to be the method of purchase when you go to the car dealer.

Sometime around 2003 or so I read that the average S-Class buyer had an income of around $250,000. Granted the cars and inflation has probably driven that up somewhat (pure inflation puts the current figure in the 295-325k range although 2011 sales were only about half of 2003), but these people are well off but not what you would call super wealthy. A two income family where both have white collar jobs could approach that without much trouble. That income level is only upper middle class in many locales.

Quoting flanker (Reply 13):
Getting financing on that type of a car unless you put down a substantial amount of money is not feasible as the payments are will be in the thousands per month.

They in many cases could make a substantial down payment via a trade.

Quoting flanker (Reply 13):
Small companies might lease these vehicles but that's another issue.

Smart people would too for tax purposes. And if they like getting new cars often. Where I am, there is a property tax based on what you own, including your car, so leasing becomes a better option.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinefbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3706 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1477 times:

Quoting flanker (Reply 13):
Unless you are dishing out 90 grand up front, you would be crazy to even get financing for that type of a sum.

These cars are marketed for people who make hundreds of thousands of dollars per year and companies as well. These are executives. Hence why its an executive saloon.

People who would come in to buy RS4s, A8s and the like would have checks ready for the full price.

Really? I was looking at buying an S Class/CL Class in December and the guy at the Mercedes dealership told me that 99% of people buying anything in the S Class category were going for leases. He was rather taken aback that I wasn't.

Quoting flanker (Reply 13):
Getting financing on that type of a car unless you put down a substantial amount of money is not feasible as the payments are will be in the thousands per month. No smart and well off person would ever opt to spend thousands more than he/she already has to. not to mention have liability for a 90k car that isn't payed off.

Why are payments of several thousand a month not feasible, particularly for someone earning $30,000/mo or thereabouts? It's just a percentages game and what liability is there with a $90k that isn't paid off?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
Sometime around 2003 or so I read that the average S-Class buyer had an income of around $250,000. Granted the cars and inflation has probably driven that up somewhat (pure inflation puts the current figure in the 295-325k range although 2011 sales were only about half of 2003)

For 2007 it's not much different:
http://www.autobytel.com/mercedes-be...des-benz-s-class-first-drive-1075/

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 10):
Some do realize that there is absolutely no need to own a V8 or a V12 when, well, quite simply, you have to abide by the ridiculously low speed limits in the US.

As a V12 S Class owner in the US there absolutely is a need for it! I keep telling myself that anyways   



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4008 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1461 times:

A Diesel S-Class Mercedes... all the car you will ever need in life. Ever.

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 10):
The notion that just because you have money, you can spend it around like it's grown in a tree isn't all that true.

In fact quite the contrary - the fact that they are in the position to even consider buying an S-Class Mercedes means that, statistically speaking, they are probably better with managing money than the average Joe.

It is like the fact that so many people that win the lottery are broke after a couple of years - the fact that they even bought a lottery ticket in the first place is a pretty reliable indicator they are not very good with money to begin with.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1459 times:

Quoting fbgdavidson (Reply 15):
Really? I was looking at buying an S Class/CL Class in December and the guy at the Mercedes dealership told me that 99% of people buying anything in the S Class category were going for leases. He was rather taken aback that I wasn't.

We are talking about purchasing these vehicles not leases. Also I am very aware that a lot of people lease them. Who wouldn't want to jump in a new S class every year?

We had a customer who had an 05 A8 and his license plate was "mycondo" haha.. got a kick out of that.

Quoting fbgdavidson (Reply 15):
Why are payments of several thousand a month not feasible, particularly for someone earning $30,000/mo or thereabouts? It's just a percentages game and what liability is there with a $90k that isn't paid off?

Are you serious? Cash/Check on the spot is the name of the game. If you're going to buy that type of a car you know better than to spend thousands more on interest over the life of the financing.



Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1458 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 16):
A Diesel S-Class Mercedes... all the car you will ever need in life. Ever.

   Maybe a Toyota Hilux too for working outdoors a bit and the occasional insurgency. Somewhere I thought I saw that the majority of world governments own at least one.

Quoting flanker (Reply 17):
If you're going to buy that type of a car you know better than to spend thousands more on interest over the life of the financing.

I doubt that people finance the whole thing, but with possibly $50-60k in a trade it makes more sense.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1451 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 12):
Drive it 15,000 miles/ year and you will save ~$350 in fuel costs over the hybrid, which last I looked is the cheapest S class available.

There is absolutely no way in which one only manages to save 350$ by owning an S350 BlueTEC or an S400 over an S550. The savings are substantially greater.

Quoting flanker (Reply 13):
Unless you are dishing out 90 grand up front, you would be crazy to even get financing for that type of a sum.

Exactly. Yet, every year, new customers leave Mercedes-Benz dealers driving an S class that they would not have taken ownership of had they only had the option to pay it all in one lump sum. Although I would never do that, I must recognize the brilliance in the art of the US auto markets for enabling people to do so.

Quoting flanker (Reply 13):
These cars are marketed for people who make hundreds of thousands of dollars per year and companies as well. These are executives. Hence why its an executive saloon.
Quoting flanker (Reply 13):
people who buy $85k to 100+K most likely pay up front and don't necessarily worry about gas prices.

Sorry, but no. That is just not true at all.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
people buying diesel S-Classes are probably doing so to drive something greener rather than that they are getting killed by fuel costs

That may be true for a couple of celebrities in California, but that's pretty much it. Sure, driving a car that pollutes less is quite an incentive (hence the existence of the 400), but being able to save on fuel is just as much of an incentive for the majority of customers in this range. Further, and to your point about being killed by fuel costs, you needn't be at an extreme to become as efficient as you possibly can in how you allocate your wealth.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
making all the S-Classes more efficient isn't going to make much of a dent in oil consumption

Worry not, no one is wishing or aiming for that.
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
Sometime around 2003 or so I read that the average S-Class buyer had an income of around $250,000.

I must admit that I would LOVE to see the statistical methods employed to produce such data. However, and assuming the possibility of that being true, that is not very relevant for this discussion as it *must* take into account the upper tier S550s as well as the S600/63/65 which make that average very high due to dispersed extreme values of "income".

Quoting fbgdavidson (Reply 15):
As a V12 S Class owner in the US there absolutely is a need for it!

No, there is a want, which is perfectly acceptable.

Quoting fbgdavidson (Reply 15):
Really? I was looking at buying an S Class/CL Class in December and the guy at the Mercedes dealership told me that 99% of people buying anything in the S Class category were going for leases. He was rather taken aback that I wasn't.

  

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 16):
A Diesel S-Class Mercedes... all the car you will ever need in life. Ever.

Very, very much true  

Speedbird741



Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7296 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1449 times:

Quoting flanker (Reply 13):
Getting financing on that type of a car unless you put down a substantial amount of money is not feasible as the payments are will be in the thousands per month. No smart and well off person would ever opt to spend thousands more than he/she already has to. not to mention have liability for a 90k car that isn't payed off.

I worked in sales for a Rang Rover dealership a few years back, at the time most were trading existing vehicles or paying a deposit then monthly repayments.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1439 times:

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 19):
I must admit that I would LOVE to see the statistical methods employed to produce such data.

My guess is that a lot of it comes from credit checks and such on customers.

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 19):
However, and assuming the possibility of that being true, that is not very relevant for this discussion as it *must* take into account the upper tier S550s as well as the S600/63/65 which make that average very high due to dispersed extreme values of "income".

True, but if anything, that makes it more relevant since presumably the people buying S550s and diesels skew a bit lower. $300,000 a year is quite comfortable in the vast majority of the country, but it isn't throw-it-all-away-and-move-to-Hawaii wealth. That's two white collar, mid to late career salaries and if you talk about sending a couple kids to college and maybe having a mortgage it isn't complete financial freedom. Those people aren't losing sleep over finances, but it isn't generational wealth either, so it isn't at all out of the question for them to prudently finance purchases.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 20):
I worked in sales for a Rang Rover dealership a few years back, at the time most were trading existing vehicles or paying a deposit then monthly repayments.

Hardly surprising since S-Classes and Range Rovers are very much more tool than toy. I'd suggest that for most people it takes more financial muscle to buy a $50,000 Boxster than a $60,000 Range Rover since the Boxster is less likely to be useful on a daily basis.

By the way, the Evoque looks good, but those rear windows make me nervous. The blind spots have to be huge, and that's a vehicle that I would think is going to be largely driven by women.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4679 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1409 times:

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 19):

I must admit that I would LOVE to see the statistical methods employed to produce such data. However, and assuming the possibility of that being true, that is not very relevant for this discussion as it *must* take into account the upper tier S550s as well as the S600/63/65 which make that average very high due to dispersed extreme values of "income".

Wouldn't surprise me if it was actually the median instead of the mean (or average).



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4008 posts, RR: 28
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1387 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):
Maybe a Toyota Hilux too for working outdoors a bit and the occasional insurgency. Somewhere I thought I saw that the majority of world governments own at least one.

Ok, even better - a couple of Toyota Hiluxs with a AAA piece on the back to flank you while you drive your armored Diesel S-Class Mercedes down your own private lane in a 6-lane (each way) avenue in your capital city (despite the fact that there are only two more cars in the entire country).

There, think I got it all now.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlinefbgdavidson From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2004, 3706 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1374 times:

Quoting flanker (Reply 17):
Are you serious? Cash/Check on the spot is the name of the game. If you're going to buy that type of a car you know better than to spend thousands more on interest over the life of the financing.

Very much so. Why would I outlay a load of money in cash when I can take a low interest payment (2% APR on a new car is absolutely possible, if not less) and then invest that lump sum I would have handed over at purchase and earn more in interest/dividends than the APR on the car loan. It doesn't take much effort to actually do a hell of a lot better even in a climate where people think there's nothing to be made on the stock market. Even better use a Home Equity Loan/Line Of Credit where the interest is tax deductible. If the interest rate starts to rise on you then you can just pay it off with that lump sum I'd have given the dealer.

I worked in asset and investment management for quite a few years, I saw people with eight figure investment portfolios that still had mortgages and car loans for this very reason. It's cheap money to be borrowed. Many people see car loans and mortgages as nooses around their necks that they can't wait to shed because they're seen as a monthly drain on their income, whereas higher up the ladder they're a rather useful tool.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 21):
My guess is that a lot of it comes from credit checks and such on customers.

In the US credit checks/reports don't show someone's income.



"My first job was selling doors, door to door, that's a tough job innit" - Bill Bailey
User currently onlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3619 posts, RR: 3
Reply 25, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1353 times:

Quoting Speedbird741 (Reply 19):
There is absolutely no way in which one only manages to save 350$ by owning an S350 BlueTEC or an S400 over an S550. The savings are substantially greater.

That most likely depends on where you live and since the thread title specifically mentions the USA, the numbers I gave you are correct. You are free to look for yourself, this is a very handy tool.... http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbsSelect

It appears that Mercedes will be introducing an EV based on Tesla drivetrain this year..who wrote yesterday that they will do better than the weak S400???

Tesla reported fourth quarter and full year earnings on Wednesday and in its shareholder’s letter revealed that it has started a development program with Daimler to build a new electric Mercedes-Benz vehicle with a Tesla powertrain.



Serious question. Why doesn't the US version of the S350 have start-stop?

[Edited 2012-02-17 09:37:44]

User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2159 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1309 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 25):
Serious question. Why doesn't the US version of the S350 have start-stop?

Most automakers don't bother putting start-stop in their vehicles in the US because it's benefit doesn't really show up in the EPA's fuel economy test (due to the test methodology). Therefore they don't want to put the time and money into bringing it here and educating the consumers about the usefulness of it when they cannot show a significant difference in fuel economy in their advertising.

That is starting to change however. For example, I believe that start-stop is part of Mazda's "SkyActiv" technology that they are using even in the US now.


User currently offlineSpeedbird741 From Portugal, joined Aug 2008, 654 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1285 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 21):
that makes it more relevant since presumably the people buying S550s and diesels skew a bit lower

Indeed, they skew a bit lower. However, we must bear in mind that most S class owners fall in the cost distribution range of 90-120K. Thus, such a statistical method would be very sensitive to extreme values (ie income of 600/63/65 owners). The point that I am trying to make is that such an average value would not be very useful to discuss wether 90-120K owners lease, purchase, or finance their car because it is positively biased by the "extreme" values that I am referring to. I believe I did understand what you are trying to say, however.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 25):
this is a very handy tool

Thanks, it really is.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 25):
the numbers I gave you are correct

The number you gave us is a product of a 350 BlueTEC - 400 Hybrid comparison. But the comparison that should be made is 350 BlueTEC/(400 Hybrid) - 550, and in that case the savings are more significant. At any rate, the 350 BlueTEC yields the lowest monthly operating cost of the three models (excluding finance/lease costs and including possible lower maintenance costs due to the well known reliability of the diesel engine).

Speedbird741



Boa noite Faro, Air Portugal 257 climbing flight level 340
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 28, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1279 times:

Quoting flanker (Reply 13):
Small companies might lease these vehicles but that's another issue.

That is true, executives that I know receive luxury car leases as part of their compensation packages - a few included their spouse's vehicles as well. Some companies require that their executives own cars from US companies - usually a Cadillac. However, another point that we're missing with the diesel S-class is that the engines seem to last forever - lower maintenance costs.

Quoting Polot (Reply 26):
That is starting to change however. For example, I believe that start-stop is part of Mazda's "SkyActiv" technology that they are using even in the US now.

Buick is looking at stop-start technology with its Lacrosse, Verano, and Regal models - basically its entire line. Stop/start is important for lowering emissions in "smoggy" cities like Los Angeles or here in Phoenix...

[Edited 2012-02-17 15:31:09]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
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