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Porsche Announces New Smaller SUV Named "Macan"  
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2240 times:

The new Porsche Macan will be slightly lower and shorter – but wider – than the Audi Q5, which reflects the fact they’ll share key underpinnings, much as the Porsche Cayenne has been a fraternal twin of the Volkswagen Touareg. All sytling will be distinct to the new Macan (Indonesian for "tiger") along with the larger, wider wheels and tires. The interior will also be unique to Porsche, with a Boxster inspired instrument panel, seats and steering wheel, among other premium touches.

2014 Porsche Macan




However, there will a large amount of component sharing with the Audi Q5, including the widened Audi-based platform, suspension, steering system and Audi's signature "Quattro" all-wheel-drive system to cut production costs, much as Porsche does with the Cayenne SUV and the VW Touraeg. But there should be distinctive Porsche touches, including lots of optional performance goodies not offered on the "garden-variety" Q5.

There are three powertrains under development, starting with the 3 liter V6 that will be standard equipment in international markets worldwide. This engine is expected to turn out 290 horsepower and 295 lb-ft of torque. A Cajun Turbo S is also reportedly coming, and will use twin turbos to produce approximately 350 horsepower. The third engine, a diesel, may also be sold in North American markets, according to various press reports.

The new offering will be produced at Porsche’s plant in Leipzig where Porsche has begun to prepare for the production launch by investing about $685 USD million in the plant – which already produces the Cayenne. No word on pricing as of yet, but given that the Q5 is priced at about $40000 USD, the Macan should be at least $45K-50K.

Source: http://www.autoweek.com/article/20120216/CARNEWS/120219914

[Edited 2012-02-16 21:36:16]

[Edited 2012-02-16 21:37:55]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3613 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2089 times:

Oh, great, a Q5 with a Porsche badge.

And I thought the Cayenne and Panamera were bad...

Judging by the amount of people who have more money and pretension than sense, it'll be a hit.

So when do we get the Porsche-looking VW golf?


*Yeah, I'm a hater, and I'm gun' hate the hell out of this thing*



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10365 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2083 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):
Oh, great, a Q5 with a Porsche badge.

And I thought the Cayenne and Panamera were bad...

Judging by the amount of people who have more money and pretension than sense, it'll be a hit.

So when do we get the Porsche-looking VW golf?

*Yeah, I'm a hater, and I'm gun' hate the hell out of this thing*

Count me in. Those Porsche SUVs are hideous, and the Cayenne is the anti-car par excellence for me. Its success is a sign how tasteless some of the wealthy are.


User currently offlineswissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

Quoting na (Reply 2):
Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):
Oh, great, a Q5 with a Porsche badge.

And I thought the Cayenne and Panamera were bad...

Judging by the amount of people who have more money and pretension than sense, it'll be a hit.

So when do we get the Porsche-looking VW golf?

*Yeah, I'm a hater, and I'm gun' hate the hell out of this thing*

Count me in. Those Porsche SUVs are hideous, and the Cayenne is the anti-car par excellence for me. Its success is a sign how tasteless some of the wealthy are.

Well, Porsche is today more then the 911... and sales/profit numbers proof that   has the 911 program suffered because there are other models on the market now?

What is wrong with sharing top quality/technology? and bring a affordable new product to the market?

Guess people have still issues the Porsche wants to appeal to more people...and just in case! there is always the 911

Cheerios,


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8711 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2043 times:

Quoting na (Reply 2):
Count me in. Those Porsche SUVs are hideous, and the Cayenne is the anti-car par excellence for me. Its success is a sign how tasteless some of the wealthy are.

Wow, some pretty hateful comments here. Sure, Porsche's SUVs have the aesthetics of the Elephant Man, but you have to admire the technology of a luxury SUV that is stable at autobahn speeds, yet works off-road quite well (unlike the BMWs). They've lightened them and you can have anything from a diesel (even in the US this year), to hybrid to the firebreathing 500hp engines. Why the hatred?



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10365 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2032 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
Wow, some pretty hateful comments here. Sure, Porsche's SUVs have the aesthetics of the Elephant Man, but you have to admire the technology of a luxury SUV that is stable at autobahn speeds, yet works off-road quite well (unlike the BMWs).

A friend went into the desert with his Cayenne some years ago. The car was a half-wreck afterwards, one axle completely ripped off. Porsche quietly repaired it for free to avoid bad press. The Cayenne is no true offroad competitor to the Range Rover or Defender, as its no sportscar or true limousine. For the first better take a 911, for the latter the Panamera.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
Why the hatred?

Ugliness at a high price is a combination I will always hate.


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 6672 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2021 times:

Quoting na (Reply 5):
A friend went into the desert with his Cayenne some years ago. The car was a half-wreck afterwards, one axle completely ripped off. Porsche quietly repaired it for free to avoid bad press. The Cayenne is no true offroad competitor to the Range Rover or Defender

Which is odd because the Touareg which it's twined with, with the off-road package is a very competent off road machine.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10365 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2005 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 6):
Which is odd because the Touareg which it's twined with, with the off-road package is a very competent off road machine.

Somewhat odd I agree but nevertheless the pure truth. Its not a story. Its what happened to a "friend" of mine with one of the first generation Cayennes in 2003/04. Interestingly I´ll be having an offroad experience with the Touareg in India next month. Even if related to the Cayenne, imho the Touareg is the much better looking car, inside and out.


User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6661 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1995 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):
And I thought the Cayenne and Panamera were bad...

Except that the Panamera is a total beast that very much deserves its badge. Now you can argue the morality of Porsche having a 4-door vehicle period, but you can't deny its monster performance.


User currently offlineswissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1957 times:

Quoting na (Reply 7):
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 6):
Which is odd because the Touareg which it's twined with, with the off-road package is a very competent off road machine.

Somewhat odd I agree but nevertheless the pure truth. Its not a story. Its what happened to a "friend" of mine with one of the first generation Cayennes in 2003/04. Interestingly I´ll be having an offroad experience with the Touareg in India next month. Even if related to the Cayenne, imho the Touareg is the much better looking car, inside and out.

You see here in YHM I get a better car for the money if I go with the Cayenne.... however no dealer near by... so for now its MB. Never would pay that kind of $$$ for an VW   and if I want to go in the desert I would get a UNIMOG  

cheerios,


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15487 posts, RR: 26
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 1923 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):
Oh, great, a Q5 with a Porsche badge.

People said the Boxster wasn't a true Porsche and they were wrong. People said you couldn't build a Porsche SUV and they were wrong. People said you couldn't build a Porsche sedan and they were wrong. There's a pattern here.

Quoting swissy (Reply 3):
Well, Porsche is today more then the 911...

In many ways the Boxster saved Porsche and the Cayenne took them to the next level. People talk as if they want Porsche to just be the 911, and there was a time when Porsche was just the 911 with the 944/968 and not coincidentally they were in rather poor financial shape during that period.

Quoting swissy (Reply 3):
has the 911 program suffered because there are other models on the market now?

Just the opposite. They couldn't give the Cayman a limited slip diff because it would be too fast.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3613 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1853 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):

I'm sure that people would doubt the success of a Porsche SUV or sedan. They probably underestimated the value of the Porsche badge they slapped on it. I don't think these cars are any more advanced than any other car the VW group or other could have come up with, they're just the category above. They're well designed, have big, powerful engines and are expensive.
As a matter of fact Porsche was at the forefront of the nascent luxury SUV market.
I can't but commend Porsche on the financial success they've achieved with these cars, I mean they bought VW thanks to it!

My beef with those cars is purely personal. I believe people buy those cars for all the wrong reasons.
They just want something to haul their butts to starbucks, but nothing so mundane as a Merc or BMW, so they choose the car with the Porsche badge on it, and purely based on that.

A sport SUV that doesn't go offroad is a contradiction in terms, a senseless car that appeals to those with something to prove. Especially since it's butt ugly.
That new thing is equally tasteless and appeals to the same category of people, just with slightly less money.

I do have a problem with the fact that Porsche has sold its soul to the devil and has completely denatured itself with these insipid new cars. I die a little inside everytime I see one on the road and think of the fantastic cars that could have been bought with that money...
And for god's sake, I know they'd never designed a car before, but surely they could have come up with something prettier.

Again, it's purely personal.

I still do love the 911 and even the boxster and cayman, and I hope they'll keep coming up with ever improved versions of them. But then I guess they have to if they want to keep luring those Cayenne/Macan customers into thinking "yeah, I've got a Porsche"...   



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15487 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1841 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 11):
They just want something to haul their butts to starbucks, but nothing so mundane as a Merc or BMW,

I have one friend who has taken his Panamera Turbo to the track on more than one occasion. Says it's the best car he's ever driven, and his family has had some nice cars.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 11):
so they choose the car with the Porsche badge on it,

That's not true, and that's precisely why Porsche has been so successful with their new models.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 11):
even the boxster and cayman

Even? You're one of those cretinous "purists" who insist on believing the myth that the only real Porsche is a 911, aren't you?

Quoting francoflier (Reply 11):
"yeah, I've got a Porsche"

Except that when they say that, it's true. It really is a Porsche and not a rebadged Audi. If they really were revamped Audis and VWs, people would have seen through it by now but they haven't because that's not what the Cayenne and Panamera are. They are real Porsches.

For heaven's sake just look at the cars and it gets pretty obvious that Porsche is essentially making versions of the 911. You have the 911, the 911 sedan, the 911 wagon, the two seat mid-engined 911 and roadster and now a smaller 911 wagon. Porsche has put in the effort to make each new model live up to the name and that is why their newer offerings have been so successful. If they were trading on their badge they wouldn't have made it this long.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineswissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1803 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 11):
I still do love the 911

Same here and that car is on my "bucket List" just like a Aston Martin  
Quoting francoflier (Reply 11):
But then I guess they have to if they want to keep luring those Cayenne/Macan customers into thinking "yeah, I've got a Porsche"...

Care less for badges  .. we are a family of 5... and they wont fit in a 911, boxster...  , sure could get the VW... why would I? I get more for the $$ with a Cayenne...  

cheerios,


User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2378 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 1791 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):

Couldn't agree more. What's next? Ferrari making a mini van?!



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1745 times:

Here in YVR, Cayenne's are so common theres two a block and the majority of drivers have zero clue how to drive them and probably rarely go over 100 kmh. The latest one looks like a spoilered Hyundai.... now there will be even more clueless dimwits out there who you wonder how they even got a license trading in their GLK350's & X3's.

Sadly, I feel this is the majority of Porsche's customers but all that being said, nothing should be taken away from what Porsche have achieved and the quality of the vehicles they produce. I hope none of it is lost with the Macan. Just as you may choose to have fancy leather suites with the latest and greatest plasma HDTV's with surround sound in your living room, you are entitled to the same luxury on the road if you can afford it. I do feel the engineering for such performance is wasted in a congested city like YVR with lights every block where your 1980's diesel is just as quick and I see little point in owning one unless you have unrestricted autobahns to do what they are designed for, or at least uncongested rural roads.

I also feel there should be a government requirement to have a special high performance license before you are allowed to own one as part of the vehicle registration process, with an extensive high speed training course culminating in a further road test (this would include any performance vehicle).



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 6672 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1738 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
If they really were revamped Audis and VWs, people would have seen through it by now but they haven't because that's not what the Cayenne and Panamera are.

The Cayenne really is a revamped Touareg, using VAG engines (except the V8) Cayenne Mk1 even shared the same doors as Touareg, Porsche have never tried to hide that fact, same with the Macan, it's a re-bodied Q5, which means it's based on Audi's MLB platform, same as A4/A5/A6/A7 & A8 and will use VAG group engines.

The Panamera is pure Porsche, on a Porsche platform with mostly Porsche engines. The next generation Panamera will be interesting, it's apparently going to share the same platform as the next generation A8.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15487 posts, RR: 26
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1735 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 16):
The Cayenne really is a revamped Touareg, using VAG engines (except the V8) Cayenne Mk1 even shared the same doors as Touareg,

That's a bit of a typo, it should read "just revamped Audis and VWs." Of course they actually share parts.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 16):
Porsche have never tried to hide that fact,

No, they haven't. And nobody's ever cared because Porsche did their work and made the effort to ensure that the Cayenne was a proper Porsche in every respect except configuration, but then proved that what makes or doesn't make a Porsche is not based on a number of doors.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 6672 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1727 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 11):
I mean they bought VW thanks to it!

You mean they tried to buy VW, it backfired and VW ended up buying them.


User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2217 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1721 times:

Is Kay Jewelers suddenly selling natural pink diamonds?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
Wow, some pretty hateful comments here. Sure, Porsche's SUVs have the aesthetics of the Elephant Man, but you have to admire the technology of a luxury SUV that is stable at autobahn speeds, yet works off-road quite well (unlike the BMWs). They've lightened them and you can have anything from a diesel (even in the US this year), to hybrid to the firebreathing 500hp engines. Why the hatred?

I like the Cayenne. But why does everyone have to follow the BMW little SUVs and the M-B GLKs. They're kinda bleh to me.

Also.

I mostly like foreign cars, but I own a GMC Yukon Denali with a supercharger, engine upgrades, and suspension. Gets about 610 bhp, but it also weighs 6000+ pounds. I've driven on the road and track versus Ferrari 430s in it, and bested them. I blow past everyday cars everyday in it. Brrrrlllllack. It's crazy. The crazy thing isn't even then hp, it's the torque, almost 800 lb-ft AWD.

I'm kinda whatever on this little Porsche SUV though. To me the Cayenne is small enough. I like BIG cars.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7006 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1681 times:

Not a bad idea, if the base model is around the same money as a 3.2 Q5 it's a better buy with the bigger engine. Obviously these cars are not mean to be taken off road but the Q5 did win Off Road magazine off road SUV of the year. I think for its price range. It has some limited capabilities like 28 degree incline angles, 20inches of water, 4x4 etc.. I expect this to be the same.

I drove a 2004 V8 Touareg for a few years what a fantastic car, fast, great handling, good off road performance, one of the best mass produced off road SUVs ever made IMO. I currently drive an absolute off road beast (maybe the best) a early 2000s G500. Fun car to drive but give me the Touareg any day for practical driving. Porsche/VW/Audi knew what they were doing with these SUVs and sales has showed this.

However for the price this car will probably be with Nav and an option or two give me the bigger Touareg TDI. In the SUV market I think it's the best value. I am interested to see what type of diesel engine they might bring in though.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3613 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1613 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
Even? You're one of those cretinous "purists" who insist on believing the myth that the only real Porsche is a 911, aren't you?

I'm flattered that you value my personal opinions so mush as to get emotional about it, but there is no need for insults...  

I said 'even' for the very purpose of stating that I am NOT a 911 purist and that I like all of Porsche's sports models.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 12):
That's not true, and that's precisely why Porsche has been so successful with their new models.

I'm not sure I understand what you meant, but I can't see why the badge doesn't have anything to do with the car's success? I'm pretty sure it does. Even you mentioned later in your post that those cars are meant to be SUV and sedan versions of the 911. If that's not milking the badge, I don't know what is?

I don't like the Cayenne because it's meant to be a sporty SUV. But why would anyone wanting a sports car buy an 2.5 Tons, 5.5 ft tall car? I hate the engineering expenses that have to be made to turn a car that should be a big all terrain vehicle into a sports car. I mean, why? The same engine and drivetrain in a smaller, lighter car would be so much more efficient. Which brings me to the Panamera:
I much prefer the Panamera. It's dynamically efficient, not too heavy (still 1.7T though) and is a hell of a thorn in the M5's side. what I don't like about it is that it looks like sh#t and that here again, instead of giving the car it's own identity, they tried to 911 it.

As for this new thing, well it's even worse. It's a Q5 for those who'd prefer be seen inside a Porsche. Don't anybody tell me that it will sell only on its merits this time.

...Again, personal view...

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 18):
You mean they tried to buy VW, it backfired and VW ended up buying them.

I do, thanks. Still impressive from a company that was a speck on the German auto industry landscape just a couple of decades ago.
The Apple of the car industry for sure.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15487 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1583 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 21):
If that's not milking the badge, I don't know what is?

That's following the tradition and substance of the brand, which is not the same as trading on the badge. If they were really just trading on the badge, the Cayenne would not have lasted a decade. That sort of thing gets exposed really quickly.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 21):
I don't like the Cayenne because it's meant to be a sporty SUV.

If you're going to build an SUV, you might as well build one that's fast. And if it's going to be a Porsche, it damn well better be. What other sort of SUV would you expect or accept from Porsche? Building an SUV that isn't sporty would be trading on only the badge.

You can't go on about how bad it would be for Porsche to be skating by on just their name and then say how pointless it is for Porsche to do a real Porsche SUV.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 21):
I hate the engineering expenses that have to be made to turn a car that should be a big all terrain vehicle into a sports car.

Then how can anyone make the argument that "it's just a revamped Volkswagen" or "people just want the badge"?

Quoting francoflier (Reply 21):
I mean, why?

Why build a sedan that goes like a sports car? Why not build an SUV that goes like a sports sedan? People fall all over themselves talking about how wonderful the RS6 Avant and CTS-V Sportwagon are but raise it up a couple of inches and all of the sudden it's the height of idiocy? I don't buy it.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 21):
As for this new thing, well it's even worse. It's a Q5 for those who'd prefer be seen inside a Porsche.

No, it's a Q5 for people who'd prefer to drive a Porsche. And that's a real Porsche, not a rebadged Audi, or a rebadged Volkswagen. It will be a Porsche, just like the Cayenne, and that's why it will be a success.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 21):
Don't anybody tell me that it will sell only on its merits this time.

If it is to have any longevity it will. The Cayenne has been around for a decade now with no end in sight. If the Cayenne were the badge engineered abortion many insist on believing it is, consumers would have figured it out long, long ago and the Cayenne would be a memory now. Just ask Cadillac about that.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 21):
...Again, personal view...

It's a view that seemingly a lot of people share. And every last one of them is dead wrong.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 6672 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1541 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 21):
But why would anyone wanting a sports car buy an 2.5 Tons, 5.5 ft tall car?

Someone like me who has three kids, I'd rather drive a sporty SUV than an MPV or a stationwagon. As soon as my oldest is out of a booster seat I'll be down to the local Porsche/VW/BMW dealerships looking at sporty SUV''s and getting rid of the MPV.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15487 posts, RR: 26
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 9 hours ago) and read 1455 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 23):
I'd rather drive a sporty SUV than an MPV or a stationwagon.

   SUVs are going to be a fact of life. Might as well drive one with some real performance. Fast is always better than not slow.

And a Cayenne Turbo weighs in at about 4800 lbs. That is less than a Bentley Continental GT, and about the same as the Mercedes CL63, and only about 200 lbs more than a BMW 750i. The Range Rover weighs in at around 5800 lbs.

[Edited 2012-02-19 19:26:22]

[Edited 2012-02-19 19:27:35]


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2315 posts, RR: 21
Reply 25, posted (2 years 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 1408 times:

Idk.. I think I like the Macan. If I had the money, I would probably be a potential buyer.

User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 6672 posts, RR: 3
Reply 26, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1382 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 24):
And a Cayenne Turbo weighs in at about 4800 lbs.

Turbo would be nice but if I buy one it will be the 3.0 diesel, I can't afford 2million NOK plus which is what a nicely optioned Turbo would cost.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 27, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1384 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):
Oh, great, a Q5 with a Porsche badge.

And I thought the Cayenne and Panamera were bad...

Judging by the amount of people who have more money and pretension than sense, it'll be a hit.

   ^
My thoughts exactly.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 1):
So when do we get the Porsche-looking VW golf?

LOL!  
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
People said the Boxster wasn't a true Porsche and they were wrong. People said you couldn't build a Porsche SUV and they were wrong. People said you couldn't build a Porsche sedan and they were wrong. There's a pattern here.

Just because you could do something doesnøt mean that you should.
The Cadillac Escalade, Cimarron, Lincoln Blackwood and Mark LT should not have happened either but it did.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
In many ways the Boxster saved Porsche and the Cayenne took them to the next level.

More like took them down a notch.
Sure it's great they make money off of these but the brand is losing its exotic factor.
Why not leave that market to Volkswagen and Audi?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 6672 posts, RR: 3
Reply 28, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1356 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):
More like took them down a notch.

Shows how little you know about Porsche, the Boxster was the entry level model which took over from the 968, the Boxster was a better vehicle, and the Cayman better again, Porsche has always had an entry model below the 911.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 29, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1350 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 28):

I was refering to the Cayanne, not the Boxster.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15487 posts, RR: 26
Reply 30, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1306 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):
Just because you could do something doesnøt mean that you should.

Well, if you're going to make an SUV you might as well make one with real performance that people might actually want to drive. Sure I'd rather have a 911, but I'm a single 21 year old with no kids. Not everybody has that freedom.

Actually, I'd rather have a Cayman R and keep the change for tuning.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):
The Cadillac Escalade

Like it or not, the Escalade saved Cadillac. The pimpmobiles weren't selling and without the Escalade they probably wouldn't have been able to build the CTS, STS, and ATS. Not to mention, that in terms of practical use and spiritual succession, the Escalade is much more the follower of the big Caddie sedans of old than the CTS or ATS will ever be.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):
More like took them down a notch.

Not at all. You have to remember that in the early 1990s Porsche was not doing well at all. The 911 had suffered a long period of neglect in favor of the 928, which was partially rectified with the 964. But with the recession in the early 1990s, Porsche was still on the brink. The 993 was another improvement, but still there seems to be a lot of revisionist history surrounding those two models. The 964 and 993 were not especially well built and while practical for a sports car, were not nearly as friendly as modern 911s.

The simple fact is the marked upswing of Porsche that continues as we speak started with the Boxster. The Boxster was cheaper (although prices started about where the outgoing 968's did) but was not the first "cheap" Porsche. It was, arguably, the first good "cheap" Porsche. And that is why it thrived when other entry level models became red-headed stepchildren: it was a real Porsche and not just a Miata clone with a bloated price tag.

The success was repeated with the Cayenne, and again with the Panamera. Suffice to say, Porsche has figured out that their essence and appeal is not tied to a body style or door count and have cracked the code to inserting their DNA into various sorts of vehicles.

People said Porsche couldn't build a good entry level model, and they were wrong. People said they couldn't build a water-cooled 911, and they were wrong. People said they couldn't build an SUV and they were wrong. People said they couldn't build a sedan and they were wrong.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 27):
Sure it's great they make money off of these but the brand is losing its exotic factor.

That's the thing though, they aren't. They are translating the exotic factor and performance expected of Porsches into other vehicles. If they were just skating by with offering the badge they would have been history by now. The Boxster would have been as unloved as the 924. Of course, none of that has happened, and the only people insisting that the Boxster is not a real Porsche are some misguided "purists."



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 31, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1279 times:

I don't have a problem with the Boxster. It's a fine car.
In fact, I don't have a problem with the 914 either.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 30):
Well, if you're going to make an SUV

That's it right there. Why is a high-end, exotic car brand making SUVs?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 30):
Not everybody has that freedom.

Well there is always Buick.  
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 30):
the Escalade is much more the follower of the big Caddie sedans of old than the CTS or ATS will ever be.

Only because they're body on frame, V8, rear drive.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15487 posts, RR: 26
Reply 32, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1271 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 31):
Why is a high-end, exotic car brand making SUVs?

1. Because you can make a lot of money doing so.
2. Because they can apply everything people love about their cars to an SUV successfully.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 6672 posts, RR: 3
Reply 33, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1253 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 30):
It was, arguably, the first good "cheap" Porsche.

That's not true the 924/944/968 were all class leading designs in the day. The 968 Clubsport is one of the greatest handling RWD sports coupes ever.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15487 posts, RR: 26
Reply 34, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1252 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 33):
That's not true the 924/944/968 were all class leading designs in the day.

That's why I said arguably. The four cylinder models are still perceived as the red-headed stepchildren or that weird uncle nobody talks about. The 924 wasn't great (in the 1970s few cars were) and the early ones seem particularly unloved. The 944 was an improvement, and the 968 an improvement on that, but none of them really seemed to overcome the stigma of the 944. The 968 was a good sports car of its era, but never provided Porsche with much of a push financially.

The arrival of the Boxster along with the 993 really marked a new era of prosperity for Porsche.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1111 times:

The compact luxury SUV seems like an especially pointless segment, but I guess it's profitable, everyone and their uncle is jumping into it now. Car and Driver reported that the total volume of compact luxury SUVs is pretty small and less than, say, minivans but trending upward. That was a while ago though (think they brought it up around the release of the Volvo XC60) so I'm not sure it's still the case. In any event, it seems like a pretty sure bet given the success of the Cayenne and the profit potential for leveraging off other platforms that seems to be the Future of Everything in the car business. But I guess this topic is already another referendum on the Cayenne now so...

User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15487 posts, RR: 26
Reply 36, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1095 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 35):
The compact luxury SUV seems like an especially pointless segment,

Make sure to thank the Gas Guzzler Tax for that. Got all those big thirsty sedans off the roads and replaced them with bigger, thirstier SUVs. Keep wearing those sweaters Jimmy!

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 35):
the profit potential for leveraging off other platforms that seems to be the Future of Everything in the car business.

Porsche seems to have figured that out nicely. Others, not so much. While Porsche laughs all the way to the bank having made an SUV without compromising their essence or standards, Ford continues to try and pass off decently specced out Tauruses as Lincolns.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 35):
But I guess this topic is already another referendum on the Cayenne now so...

Don't worry, consumers have already decided the referendum that counts.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1089 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 36):

Make sure to thank the Gas Guzzler Tax for that. Got all those big thirsty sedans off the roads and replaced them with bigger, thirstier SUVs. Keep wearing those sweaters Jimmy!

...what? I'm talking specifically about the compact luxury SUVs, and I suspect their success has nothing whatsoever to do with ideological axes and/or their grinding. Especially since the Gas-guzzler tax was introduced in 1978 and the compact luxury SUV didn't really take off until the Germans jumped in. In 2003. The point is, full-size SUVs and even some mid- and full-size luxury SUVs actually have some practical arguments in their favor. Towing, off-road, cargo room, and so forth. Whereas when you downsize them, you lose many of these factors but keep the higher price and weight relative to standard cars. Granted, not every brand plays by these rules completely- there was a time when the Cayenne V6 was the cheapest Porsche you could get new. Take all this together, and you have a segment that's probably going to be subject to the whims of fashion more than anything else, but automakers will jump in anyway because of the promise of big margins- all of the cars in this segment are built off of another car's platform or share one with another model in the segment, as with the Macan.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15487 posts, RR: 26
Reply 38, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1085 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 37):
you lose many of these factors but keep the higher price and weight relative to standard cars.

...but you still get to call them light trucks.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 37):
and you have a segment that's probably going to be subject to the whims of fashion more than anything else

And that's bad how? People fall all over themselves getting the latest shoes or newest phone, but applying the "cool" factor to cars is somehow bad? What's evil about paying a little (or a lot) more for a cool car, especially a Porsche which so far has always had it where it counts.

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 37):
all of the cars in this segment are built off of another car's platform or share one with another model in the segment,

The ones that do it badly quickly get exposed.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 39, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1083 times:

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 37):
the compact luxury SUV didn't really take off until the Germans jumped in. In 2003

The Mercedes ML and the Lexus RS utes were the first to get the ball rolling, but the luxury CUV market was really started by the the Lexus RS model, which got Cadillac with its SRX model into the mix.

In all honesty, Range Rover was in the luxury SUV market BEFORE there really was a luxury SUV market.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1082 times:

You were most definitely born with the argumentative gene. Anyway, my point, inasmuch as I have a point and am not expressing an opinion/posing a question out loud, is this. Are fashion driven segments bad? Probably not, as much as I resent them (you're talking to a man with a three year old dumb phone who buys shoes about as often.) Some good cars come out of stylistic competition, and the Macan is much more attractive than the Cayenne to my eyes at least. But is anyone going to buy a compact luxury SUV because they need any unique capability only such a vehicle can provide? I really doubt it. It's a market segment that I don't relate to very well. I think of cars being bought as toys for driving or as tools for some purpose and within that admittedly self-defined and limited matrix it's hard to see where the GLK, Q5, X3, Macan, and company fall.

EDIT: BTW I'm talking to BMI727 if you can't tell

[Edited 2012-02-22 22:22:46]

User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15487 posts, RR: 26
Reply 41, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1080 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 39):
In all honesty, Range Rover was in the luxury SUV market BEFORE there really was a luxury SUV market.

Along with the Jeep Wagoneer. Really early Range Rovers weren't that luxurious. More comfortable than say, the IH Scout or Bronco, but not really an alternative to luxury sedans either.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 42, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1075 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 41):
Along with the Jeep Wagoneer

Of course, how could I forget the old Jeep Grand Wagoneers, with the acres of faux wood paneling and pillow-like leather (or crushed velour in the 70s!). That model lasted for decades too, making AMC and then Chrysler a boatload of profits too.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10365 posts, RR: 11
Reply 43, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1029 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 31):
Why is a high-end, exotic car brand making SUVs?

Because there are many tasteless well-off people out there, who are able to twist their eyes for the sake of fashion. Honestly, SUVs are tlike plateau-shoes, fashionable for some time, less dynamic at at a higher price, and never pretty.

If you are prepared to pay more for a less elegant, heavier, thirstier car with inferior handling than a limousine with the same engine, then you are not cool, you are the victim of the car industry, nothing else.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5404 posts, RR: 12
Reply 44, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 959 times:

The grille front end treatment looks cool but the rest of that thing on wheels looks like a pygmy hippo mated to an SUV. Still a little better than the Cayanne Pepper putter.


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
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