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GM Restarts Chevy Volt Production Today  
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2181 times:

GM had stopped Chevrolet Volt production in December as part of a "holiday vacation" shut-down - a vacation that lasted until today. GM's Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly plant is back online and producing Volts. GM sold 7,700 Volts in 2011 - well below its stated goal of 10,000 units. The massive press coverage of Volt post-crash fires was part of this shortfall. Furthermore, GM has backed away from its goal of selling 45,000 Volts in 2012 - saying now that they will produce whatever the market will absorb - or likely much less than 45,000 units.

Chevrolet has made engineering changes to the Volt, which make the new-build Volts "Ultra low-emission vehicles and therefore eligibile to use California's carpool lanes. "The Volts with the low emissions package are certain to be a strong draw for California commuters looking to travel the state's notoriously congested freeways in the carpool lane," Chris Perry, a Chevrolet Marketing executive was quoted in the press.

Commuters who use the freeway carpool lanes in Southern California save an average of 36 minutes a day, or about a third of their total driving time.(Except on Interstate 5, where the carpool lane is as much of a parking lot as any other lane, at least from my unfortunate experiences) In addition, California buyers will also received a $1500 USD rebate from the state - above and beyond the $7500 federal tax credit. GM clearly sees California as the primary market for the $40,000 sticker priced Volt, and is offering no-down payment (relatively) cheap leases ($369 bucks a month!) for California buyers.

Source: http://www.pcmag.com/article/print/294531


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1351 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

Waste of a car imo, and if not for Obama and US government wishing so hard to push half baked technologies it would be dead long time ago.

User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3604 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2120 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
a vacation that lasted until today.

Reading comprehension is your friend, nowhere does your article even mention the word production. Production actually started back up almost 3 weeks ago.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5491 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2115 times:

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 1):
and if not for Obama and US government wishing so hard to push half baked technologies it would be dead long time ago.

You are wrong on that. First "Obama" had nothing really to do with the Volt. It was an exercise by GM from before hos administration and before their bankruptcy. And as for the US government's involvement, yes there is some in that there are incentives, tax breaks, rebates etc. that the government offers to get things started with certain technologies (not much different from tax breaks for oil drilling etc. to encourage that kind of investment and activities) but otherwise the government is not really directly involved.

I am very glad to see it moving along again. I do hope that it continues and leads to more and lower cost vehicles in the future. We'll see.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2103 times:

[quote=mham001,reply=2]Reading comprehension is your friend, nowhere does your article even mention the word production. Production actually started back up almost 3 weeks ago.

Thank you for pointing out my failure - February 6th is when GM restarted Volt production. My apologies for the error.

Source: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...AID=/20120223/OEM05/120229953/1448

  

And the General Motors press release on the California PZEV certification:

Source: http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/chev...ages/news/us/en/2012/Feb/0222_volt

[Edited 2012-02-23 21:18:23]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1351 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2091 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
You are wrong on that. First "Obama" had nothing really to do with the Volt.

Sure he did -

A couple months back when I was in Asia in one of your magazines (Business Week, Time, etc) there was an article about GM and interview with executives. It stated in there the Obama administration placed much pressure to keep the Volt during company BK. If not for this being a show project for Obama, it would have been jetisoned in BK.


User currently offlineFly2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2081 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):

Chevrolet has made engineering changes to the Volt, which make the new-build Volts "Ultra low-emission vehicles and therefore eligibile to use California's carpool lanes.

Funny how a "Green car" couldn't even meet ULEV standards to begin with.  


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12414 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1999 times:

It's a rough crowd here in non-av. We have a lot of posts about how stagnant the US auto industry is, yet when they try they get no love from us.

Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
First "Obama" had nothing really to do with the Volt. It was an exercise by GM from before hos administration and before their bankruptcy.

Indeed. I remember interviews with GM execs at the time saying they had to do something to show they could innovate with the world's best. To be honest, I find the result very disappointing.

Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
I am very glad to see it moving along again. I do hope that it continues and leads to more and lower cost vehicles in the future.

I do, but it's far from a given.

My understanding is that it has a 60 mile range whereas the Tesla has 200 mile range. Why the big difference? I know the Tesla costs a lot more, but what is that buying you? What is the range of the Nissan Leaf?

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 5):
A couple months back when I was in Asia in one of your magazines (Business Week, Time, etc) there was an article about GM and interview with executives. It stated in there the Obama administration placed much pressure to keep the Volt during company BK. If not for this being a show project for Obama, it would have been jetisoned in BK.

It's ironic you were in Asia when you read that, given how the governments there do everything they can to give their industries a leg up.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3604 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1951 times:

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 5):
A couple months back when I was in Asia in one of your magazines (Business Week, Time, etc) there was an article about GM and interview with executives. It stated in there the Obama administration placed much pressure to keep the Volt during company BK. If not for this being a show project for Obama, it would have been jetisoned in BK.

If Time said it, it must be true, huh? But really, what does it matter to you to have such strong opinions?

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):
Indeed. I remember interviews with GM execs at the time saying they had to do something to show they could innovate with the world's best. To be honest, I find the result very disappointing.

All accounts by owners say it is a stellar car whose concept and technology is generally working flawlessly. I saw an owner last night claim he hadn't bought gas in 3000 miles. Owners also say it is not a bad drivers car either. Much more fun than the Prius.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):
My understanding is that it has a 60 mile range whereas the Tesla has 200 mile range. Why the big difference? I know the Tesla costs a lot more, but what is that buying you? What is the range of the Nissan Leaf?

The Volt and the Leaf operate differently. The Volt has an ICE, the Tesla and Leaf are pure electric. The Volt has an electric-only range of 40 miles. The Leaf and Tesla both have much larger battery packs, giving them longer electric range. .


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12414 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1919 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 8):
The Volt has an ICE, the Tesla and Leaf are pure electric. The Volt has an electric-only range of 40 miles. The Leaf and Tesla both have much larger battery packs, giving them longer electric range. .

Interesting.

I went off and read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_leaf.

It seems the Leaf may be of interest in a few years when I am looking to replace my current car.

Just to toss out some red meat:

Quote:

Commercial US production is slated to begin in late 2012 at Nissan's manufacturing facility in Smyrna, Tennessee. This US plant will be modified with a US$1.4 billion loan granted by the US Department of Energy to allow the manufacturing plant to produce the Nissan Leaf and its advanced batteries. The retooled plant is expected to create 1,300 jobs.[108][109] The Smyrna plant is expected to produce up to 150,000 vehicles and 200,000 battery packs annually.[109]

The Leaf will also be produced at Nissan's plant in Sunderland, England, beginning in 2013.[110] Nissan will benefit from a GB£20.7 million grant from the British government and up to GB£220 million from the European Investment Bank.[110][111] The plant will produce 60,000 lithium-ion batteries a year, and it also is expected to deliver 50,000 Leaf EVs a year.[110] Once production starts at the Sunderland plant, Nissan expects to reduce the Leaf price in the European market by 2013.

Bad Obama! Bad Cameron! How dare they? Drill, baby drill!  



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1351 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1901 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 8):
If Time said it, it must be true, huh? But really, what does it matter to you to have such strong opinions?

 

Not my opinion, it came from mouth of executive in interview. If not for government pressure GM would rather have walked away from the extremely expensive project.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12414 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1898 times:

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 10):
Not my opinion, it came from mouth of executive in interview. If not for government pressure GM would rather have walked away from the extremely expensive project.

And if GM built products that customers actually wanted to buy, they wouldn't have to be getting advice from the government, or from anyone else.

Romney is getting slagged in the Michigan primaries because he said in 2008 that the government should not have bailed out GM or Chrysler, and now he's back-pedaling, saying that "someone else" would have come along and bailed out GM and Chrysler. Say what, Willard? Not too many banks were willing to lend anything, never mind bail out money-losing automobile makers, and if you had any cajones, you'd stand by your original statement.

The bottom line is if we didn't have Government Motors, we'd have Bank of XXX Motors, or No Motors and an amazingly huge number of unemployed. GWB started the bailout, Obama continued it, and both parties backed it, so there's no political points to be made here.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39822 posts, RR: 74
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1895 times:

Considering the average income of the Volt buyer is $175,000 per year and adds $15,000 per vehicle sold to the national debt, we mine as well subsidies another money pit that is a 'hip' technology - the Boeing 2707 SST.


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2510 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1868 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
$40,000 sticker priced Volt,

Far too expensive to ever catch on big time. You can buy whole lot of gas, even at $4.00+ a gallon before making up the difference between the Volt and a $20,000 gas-powered economy car. Hopefully the price will come down as the technology matures, like electronics typically do (VCR, DVD, LCD TV, home computers, etc)

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
Commuters who use the freeway carpool lanes in Southern California save an average of 36 minutes a day,

Wow, I wish the HOV lanes here in Seattle provided that much of a difference. Half the time they are as stop and go as the general purpose lanes.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12414 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1844 times:

Quoting ER757 (Reply 13):
Far too expensive to ever catch on big time. You can buy whole lot of gas, even at $4.00+ a gallon before making up the difference between the Volt and a $20,000 gas-powered economy car. Hopefully the price will come down as the technology matures, like electronics typically do (VCR, DVD, LCD TV, home computers, etc)

Clearly there's some "early adopter" peril to these cars, but I also have to wonder what avenues for improvement there are. We're not talking about cell phones here, we're talking about using batteries to drive electric motors, and short of room temperature (and above) superconductors I don't see any "silver bullet" coming along.

It's interesting how GM is having production shutdowns whereas Nissan is expanding production to the US and to Europe.

I have to wonder if GM would not have been better off partnering with Nissan on a pure electric car instead of making the hybrid Volt.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1801 times:

I was downtown Nashville today and there was a Volt parked in the area known as "The Gulch." The car displayed a US GOVERNMENT license plate.

Tag number?

EV-00001

Yep. The Obama Governments number one Volt.

Anyway.. here's a little video to enjoy about the Volt.

http://youtu.be/avLKiWi71cE



As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1796 times:

Quoting Fly2HMO (Reply 6):
Funny how a "Green car" couldn't even meet ULEV standards to begin with.

The petrol-powered motor in the Volt is the familiar 1.4 liter motor shared with the Chevrolet Sonic and Cruze - which is why the original Volt couldn't meet the ULEV standards. GM has "massaged" the onboard electronics on this gas motor so it now reaches the California standards.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1788 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 14):
It's interesting how GM is having production shutdowns whereas Nissan is expanding production to the US and to Europe.
GM has been fighting a very negative public image (fueled by the far-right wingers and Tea Partiers, IMHO) from being frequently called "Government Motors" and the massive amount of negative press that the Volt received from the NHTSA-crash tested Volt battery fires - although, to be honest, the NHTSA forgot to depower the damn batteries on the totalled Volts, like the damned owners manual told them too. Bureaucrats that don't read new legislation cannot be expected to read owners manuals now, can they?   

One other thing - don't compare the Nissan Leaf to the Chevy Volt. It's the old apples versus oranges thing.

The fact that the Leaf relies on battery power ONLY with no backup internal combustion engine/generator makes it a completely different animal when comparing its merits to the Volt for anything other than city/urban commuting duties. The new Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid features a similar combination of battery and gasoline power as the Volt, but its 15 mile electric only range is MUCH shorter than that of the Chevy.

[Edited 2012-02-24 21:37:52]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2045 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1776 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 17):
GM has been fighting a very negative public image (fueled by the far-right wingers and Tea Partiers, IMHO) from being frequently called "Government Motors" and the massive amount of negative press that the Volt received from the NHTSA-crash tested Volt battery fires

The negative image these cars have are simply the fact that they cost $40,000+ and have a range of 40 miles on electric. Electric provided by a box you have to install in your house at a cost of $2,000-3,000. And on top of that, after the 40 miles, you get gas mileage not even equal to a Cobalt! Which basically is what this car is, a Cobalt with some fancy electronics.

Your IMHO is way off. Sorry but thats the fact. Left leaning people never listen to the right or tea partiers, so that right there will ensure that 30-40% of the buying public could care less what they think. And they still aren't buying them. The reason is simply that the technology is crap, expensive, and saves nothing. Plain and simple.



As Seen On FlightRadar24! Radar ==> F-KBNA5
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15727 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1770 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 3):
First "Obama" had nothing really to do with the Volt.

He doesn't seem to have much problem holding it up as a shining example of American achievement and the progressive nature of his administration.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):
We have a lot of posts about how stagnant the US auto industry is, yet when they try they get no love from us.

When they try the results are still underwhelming.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):
My understanding is that it has a 60 mile range whereas the Tesla has 200 mile range.

Yeah, but you can't brick a Volt. But then, carrying essentially two full propulsion systems with you is kind of dumb.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 8):
All accounts by owners say it is a stellar car whose concept and technology is generally working flawlessly.

Most of whom are in the top 8% or so of income and likely own other cars for when the Volt isn't quite up to the task.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 8):
Much more fun than the Prius.

So are most golf carts. I wonder how the Volt measures up to the other midgets.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 11):
And if GM built products that customers actually wanted to buy, they wouldn't have to be getting advice from the government, or from anyone else.

   They shouldn't even be sitting at the table right now.

Quoting ER757 (Reply 13):
You can buy whole lot of gas, even at $4.00+ a gallon before making up the difference between the Volt and a $20,000 gas-powered economy car.

  

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 17):
GM has been fighting a very negative public image (fueled by the far-right wingers and Tea Partiers, IMHO)

That negative public image has been caused by a steady stream of shitty products over the last few decades. It finally caught up with them and they were summarily given a pass.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39822 posts, RR: 74
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1762 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 17):
GM has been fighting a very negative public image (fueled by the far-right wingers and Tea Partiers, IMHO)

  
The far-left has hated GM since Ralph Nader was peddling his book 'Unsafe At Any Speed' back in the 1960s. They always single out GM for making what they perceive as 'gas-guzzlers' for those un-educated people in Middle-America. They also consistently dwell on GM's part in the demise of the urban street cars in the 1950s.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
carrying essentially two full propulsion systems with you is kind of dumb.

True but it makes the owner feel good about themselves. 
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
Most of whom are in the top 8% or so of income and likely own other cars for when the Volt isn't quite up to the task.

  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12414 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1698 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 17):
GM has been fighting a very negative public image (fueled by the far-right wingers and Tea Partiers, IMHO) from being frequently called "Government Motors"

I think the reception of the Volt would be quite similar if it came from a company that didn't take a bailout such as Ford.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 17):
One other thing - don't compare the Nissan Leaf to the Chevy Volt. It's the old apples versus oranges thing.

I think the target audience is the same: those who want to try alternative energy.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
Yeah, but you can't brick a Volt.

Seems to me failing to plan ahead and have an adequate charge on the Leaf is akin to not planning ahead and putting gas into the Volt.

Sure, there can be cases where sh*t happens and you get caught out, but indeed that is one of the issues you agree to dealing with when you buy the car.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
But then, carrying essentially two full propulsion systems with you is kind of dumb.

That's my thinking right now. The electric has to be good enough to meet my daily mission requirements, and I'm not going to carry around a gas engine for when it does not.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 19):
Most of whom are in the top 8% or so of income and likely own other cars for when the Volt isn't quite up to the task

It seems to me the state of technology is such that one would need to either own or rent a second car for long trips.

Personally it doesn't bother me that wealthier people are paying the price of being early adopters of the technology.

It usually does go that way, no?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15727 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1683 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 21):
Seems to me failing to plan ahead and have an adequate charge on the Leaf is akin to not planning ahead and putting gas into the Volt.

It isn't though, which is the huge problem. Apparently five Tesla Roadsters have been bricked, and when that happens the entire battery must be replaced at a cost of about $40,000. And when it happens, you can't just push the car like you could a car that runs out of gas, so even getting the car to the service center is an issue. A lot of the problem is Tesla's handling of the issue and not being clear about the implications of not charging the car, intentionally or otherwise, but I don't think I would like a car that's only a bump of an extension cord away from a major repair.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1677 times:

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 18):
Your IMHO is way off. Sorry but thats the fact. Left leaning people never listen to the right or tea partiers, so that right there will ensure that 30-40% of the buying public could care less what they think. And they still aren't buying them. The reason is simply that the technology is crap, expensive, and saves nothing. Plain and simple.

You seem to mistake me as a protector or a fanboy for General Motors. I am not. If anything, I am a bigger supporter of Ford Motor Company, not GM. GM had an assembly plant in the town where my Dad was a school teacher for decades - which GM shut down. GM is FAR from a Christ-like entity - they are an for-profit corporation, with all the evils (and some positives) that come with being that.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12414 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1666 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22):
It isn't though, which is the huge problem. Apparently five Tesla Roadsters have been bricked, and when that happens the entire battery must be replaced at a cost of about $40,000. And when it happens, you can't just push the car like you could a car that runs out of gas, so even getting the car to the service center is an issue. A lot of the problem is Tesla's handling of the issue and not being clear about the implications of not charging the car, intentionally or otherwise, but I don't think I would like a car that's only a bump of an extension cord away from a major repair.

I wasn't aware of this issue. Seems to be incredibly poor engineering. The system needs to shut itself down before it can damage itself, and not restart till sufficiently recharged. Seems Tesla has a huge customer satisfaction and public image problem to solve.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
25 okie : I am with you Superfly. My calculations are that is worth at least $50,000.00 tax free investment income (more than the cost of the Volt) that some o
26 geezer : Eric Bolling (Fox Business Channel's Follow the Money) test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors. For four days in a row, the full
27 Post contains links Revelation : I have a hard time believing Eric's math: Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_vol
28 geezer : I have a hard time with anybodies math ! I'm not very far into math; But what difference does it make anyway ? Not much I'd say; there may be a lot o
29 Post contains links mham001 : For some reason, his experience seems to be in direct conflict with people who own the car. Why do you think that is? http://video.foxnews.com/v/1430
30 mercure1 : February 27 edition of Bloomberg has story about the poor economic case for consumers for alternative power vehicles. Sales of such vehicles continue
31 geezer : Wow ! You sure you're not a volt salesman ? If you think volts are a great deal, it's perfectly O.K. with me if you go buy one; after you've had it a
32 MAH4546 : A foreign company would have swept up GM very quickly and kept itmaliv and kicking, albeit likely with a more efficient and, hopefully, union-less wo
33 Revelation : Millions would disagree with you. You do realize the bailouts did involve restructuring i.e. closing plants and dealerships, and that workers took cu
34 Post contains images BMI727 : Someone would have moved in and picked up the pieces. Millions are idiots. All these evil millionaires....God forbid someone work hard and make somet
35 Revelation : Name the "someone" who was willing to do so. They certainly didn't make themselves known to either the Bush or Obama administrations. If the auto bai
36 BMI727 : You know as well as I do that those things aren't in the public record, and they may not have come forward at all. But any idiot knows that there is
37 Revelation : Come now. GM was in crisis for several months before the first GWB bailout. If there was a deal on the table, and they feel the government ignored th
38 BMI727 : It wouldn't have been a bailout. GM would have had to go out of business and into liquidation. That's when people could have started carving up the c
39 zckls04 : Do you think the same about the bank bailouts too? The reason I ask is that I'm wondering whether it's the principle you disagree with, or the outcom
40 BMI727 : Yes. They should have gone down. It would have sucked for the economy, but that's what should have happened. What's done is done, but the government
41 zckls04 : Agreed. At the time I thought they were necessary, but Iceland seems to be doing OK right now after letting its banks fail. (Mind you I am no economi
42 WildcatYXU : No. America IMO would be interested in an useful electric car, even in an useful serial plug in hybrid. But the Volt is neither. It looks like techno
43 Revelation : Every President within living memory, and any of the current electable candidates, would have bailed out GM in the same situation, and that includes
44 BMI727 : I think Reagan might have let it go. He had no problem pushing the big red button. But any president that would have bailed them out would have been
45 Post contains links slider : Whoops. http://thehill.com/blogs/transportat...m-halting-production-of-chevy-volt Production of the Volt is now being stopped. Layoffs as well. http:/
46 Post contains images Superfly : Hope & Change!
47 Post contains images stasisLAX : Since the original intent of this thread has been completely lost, I've requested that the mods lock this thread. Also, GM has decided to freeze Volt
48 Superfly : That's not the fault of A.net members. It was a decision by General Motors due to lack of demand.
49 Post contains links srbmod : Please continue the discussion here: GM Freezes Chevy Volt Production Due To Sales! (by stasisLAX Mar 2 2012 in Non Aviation)
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