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Breaking News - Putin Wins Russian Election  
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12476 posts, RR: 37
Posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2364 times:

A close run thing; what a surprise.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17252190

Russian state tv had the story last night, but wanted to hold it back until today, in case anyone thought there was something suspicious about announcing the result before the election. (Surely not?)

61 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinelhr380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2362 times:

What a surprise!!

Swas there any doubt it would be anyone esle


User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2093 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2352 times:

Congratulations   


Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10899 posts, RR: 37
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2326 times:

From President to Prime Minister to President... again.

I wonder if he will end up President for Life? Nothing would surprise me coming from him.
He's got a grip on power - the Supremo of Russia - I bet he won't be leaving it to someone else any time soon.

Maybe he can pick Dmitry Medvedev as his Prime Minister. The two can swap jobs over and over.

From RT
Putin wins 3rd presidential term with around 60% - preliminary results
Preliminary results show Vladimir Putin securing 62.58 per cent of votes in Russia's presidential election, with his closest rival Gennady Zyuganov taking 17.55 per cent.

http://rt.com/news/putin-win-presidential-election-813/

I never thought it would be otherwise.

Vote count fraud anyone?

 



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3106 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2315 times:

I think we will see a Russian Spring very soon. Shame Russians have never been able to have truly free elections (perhaps the only ones were right before and after the collapse of the Soviet Union). I wouldn't be surprised if Putin actually manages to abolish the Constitution and proclaim himself President for Life. He has Parliament on his side so I can expect this to come very soon. Back to the Soviet times, except maintaining the facade that Russia is democratic.


"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4503 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2312 times:

Of course the Russian Dear Leader wins again. As for a russian spring...I find it unlikely that a russian spring would succeed in Russia. It's just my gut reaction, I don't have evidence to back that up. I hope I'm wrong though.

User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2297 times:

Ah yes the kgb "wins" again


Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12563 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2292 times:

Next, I suppose you are going to tell me the Pope is a Catholic, and that bears crap in the woods, and that ducks have a water-tight butt?

[Edited 2012-03-04 10:22:08]


Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1638 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2266 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):

Next, I suppose you are going to tell me the Pope is a Catholic, and that bears crap in the woods, and that ducks have a water-tight butt?



Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1227 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2198 times:

Great News! I have yet to vote as I am not in Russia right now. This means another 6 years of economic growth and stability for Russia!

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 4):

I think we will see a Russian Spring very soon. Shame Russians have never been able to have truly free elections (perhaps the only ones were right before and after the collapse of the Soviet Union). I wouldn't be surprised if Putin actually manages to abolish the Constitution and proclaim himself President for Life. He has Parliament on his side so I can expect this to come very soon. Back to the Soviet times, except maintaining the facade that Russia is democratic.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

Quoting flanker (Reply 6):

Ah yes the kgb "wins" again

I dont understand what you guys have against the KGB...do you think the same of the CIA?


Путин - Наш Президент!



I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12563 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2195 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 9):
Great News! I have yet to vote as I am not in Russia right now.

Don't worry, someone else has done it for you!  



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1227 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2193 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 10):
Don't worry, someone else has done it for you!

Even all the exit polls are in saying that Putin has a great majority of the vote  



I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4600 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2189 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 9):
Great News! I have yet to vote as I am not in Russia right now. This means another 6 years of economic growth and stability for Russia!
Quoting tu204 (Reply 9):
You have no clue what you are talking about.
Quoting tu204 (Reply 9):
I dont understand what you guys have against the KGB...do you think the same of the CIA?

Interesting responses from someone in Russia. Perhaps the rest of the world's perspective is different, but when the same guy has managed to hold on to control of the country for a significant amount of time...that usually indicates dictator in the making. Hopefully those of us on the outside are wrong, especially for those on the inside that are going to be subject to whatever the Putin regime continues to dictate.

Ahh well. Though maybe now this will allow for another US vs. Mutha Russia James Bond flick. :-P


User currently offlineMadameConcorde From San Marino, joined Feb 2007, 10899 posts, RR: 37
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2190 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 9):
Путин - Наш Президент!

Putin Is Our President!

This is not difficult to translate.

 
Quoting tu204 (Reply 9):
This means another 6 years of economic growth and stability for Russia!

I hope you are right.



There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
User currently offlinedanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1813 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2175 times:

Breaking news? Far from it!!


Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently onlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2411 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2172 times:

Perhaps an old video for some of you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyzGo83pBWI

(click on the CC for English subtitles)


This time... same old $hit...



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12563 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2156 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 11):
Even all the exit polls are in saying that Putin has a great majority of the vote

That might have something to do with his control over media, his ability to hand-pick federal officials, his ability to use the tax code to wipe out political opponents, etc.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1227 posts, RR: 17
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 3 weeks ago) and read 2109 times:

Just voted - put two checkmarks beside Vladimir Putin's name - one for myself and one for my 1,5 year old son!


I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21637 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 17):
Just voted - put two checkmarks beside Vladimir Putin's name - one for myself and one for my 1,5 year old son!

And you know he supports Putin because....?   

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3106 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2056 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 9):
You have no clue what you are talking about.

Care to elaborate? Because to me a person that has consistently held a grip on power, whether as president or as prime minister, is really a dictator in the making. While I don't doubt of Putin's ability as a leader, I do question whether he'll give up power when the time comes. If he continues this game of president, prime minister, president, then I can only conclude that he is a dictator and nothing less. Had he allowed Medvedev to stand for another term, this post would be non-existent.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently onlineL410Turbolet From Czech Republic, joined May 2004, 5712 posts, RR: 18
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2056 times:

Quoting danfearn77 (Reply 14):
Breaking news?

It seems Putin's botox did not go down too well. Someone should tell him that "once a KGB thug, always a KGB thug" botox or not.

Quoting tu204 (Reply 9):
I dont understand what you guys have against the KGB

The same gripe we have against Gestapo. The difference is that no one's trying to whitewash Gestapo's past.


User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1992 times:

Quoting lhr380 (Reply 1):
What a surprise!!

I see the Cook County Illinois vote counters have found a new job.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1224 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1928 times:

  Wow, who would have thought.....quite possibly the least surprising piece of news to have happened in my lifetime.   

Quoting Revelation (Reply 10):
Don't worry, someone else has done it for you!

And no-doubt for some dead ancestors as-well.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 16):
That might have something to do with his control over media, his ability to hand-pick federal officials, his ability to use the tax code to wipe out political opponents, etc.

   All of those factors (particularly the first one) must make campaigning so much easier for Mr Putin. Additionally his opponents in the election are a bit crazy. Have a look at the Wikipedia page of Vladimir Zhirinovsky, who came third in this election.

Quoting tu204 (Reply 17):
Just voted - put two checkmarks beside Vladimir Putin's name - one for myself and one for my 1,5 year old son!

So you voted twice?? In most nations that is illegal.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 19):
Care to elaborate? Because to me a person that has consistently held a grip on power, whether as president or as prime minister, is really a dictator in the making.

   I have always taken the view that anyone who tries to remove term-limits for their own benefit is a fraud, whether they be a City Councillor, Mayor, Prime-Minister or President.



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1227 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1924 times:

Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 20):
The same gripe we have against Gestapo. The difference is that no one's trying to whitewash Gestapo's past.

Do you have the same opinion of Mossad, MI6 or the CIA?

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 19):
Care to elaborate? Because to me a person that has consistently held a grip on power, whether as president or as prime minister, is really a dictator in the making. While I don't doubt of Putin's ability as a leader, I do question whether he'll give up power when the time comes. If he continues this game of president, prime minister, president, then I can only conclude that he is a dictator and nothing less. Had he allowed Medvedev to stand for another term, this post would be non-existent.

Every politician does. I don't care how long Putin stays at the helm as long as the quality of life improves with every year.



I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1883 times:

"It’s not the votes that count. It’s who counts the votes." as quoted from Uncle Joe Stalin. Some things will never change, unfortunately. And I am certain this quote can also be applied to any American cities political machine and mafias.... not to point the finger only at our Russian friends.


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3106 posts, RR: 8
Reply 25, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1897 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 23):
Every politician does.

II don't know if that's how it's done in Russia, but I can guarantee that in most places in the world it's not like that. Many politicians uphold a sheet of paper called the Constitution and from this statement, I can tell that the Russian Constitution is just a piece of paper with fancy words, but it's not something people are willing to abide by.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 26, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1834 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 4):
I think we will see a Russian Spring very soon. Shame Russians have never been able to have truly free elections (perhaps the only ones were right before and after the collapse of the Soviet Union). I wouldn't be surprised if Putin actually manages to abolish the Constitution and proclaim himself President for Life. He has Parliament on his side so I can expect this to come very soon. Back to the Soviet times, except maintaining the facade that Russia is democratic.
Quoting flanker (Reply 6):
Ah yes the kgb "wins" again

Where is all this hostility coming from?
Putin was projected to win by a large margin from the start, the vast majority of Russian are obviously happy with him,the leading opposition were communists, Putin's doing everything according to the constitution....

I congratulate him and Obama could learn a thing or two from Putin.



Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3106 posts, RR: 8
Reply 27, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1839 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 26):
Where is all this hostility coming from?

There's no hostility. Hostility would be me calling for him to be removed from power or be assassinated. Would you be willing to have Obama as president for 8 years, Speaker of the House for 4, and then president for 12 more years?



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlinethegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 28, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1819 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 27):
Hostility would be me calling for him to be removed from power or be assassinated. Would you be willing to have Obama as president for 8 years, Speaker of the House for 4, and then president for 12 more years?

I would if he was a good leader.....

Guys like Dwight Eisenhower, JFK, or Ron Paul? Yea...heck yess

Putin's abiding by the constitution....a foreign concept to Obama.....



Our Returning Champion
User currently onlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1793 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 28):
Guys like Dwight Eisenhower, JFK, or Ron Paul?

One of these things is not like the other....


User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3106 posts, RR: 8
Reply 30, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1772 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 28):
I would if he was a good leader.....

Well, that's your opinion...and I think term limits should be removed so that he can do that as well.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 28):
Putin's abiding by the constitution....a foreign concept to Obama.....

Mind enlightening us when has Obama (as a person, not his healthcare law) gone against the Constitution?



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1378 posts, RR: 4
Reply 31, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1728 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 23):
Every politician does. I don't care how long Putin stays at the helm as long as the quality of life improves with every year.

Perhaps, but what if it starts declining? When he's 80 and senile (like Mugabe for instance) and the country starts going down the toilet, what then? By that time he will be virtually impossible to get rid of without a lot of violence, as the constitution will have been altered to ensure he remains in power.

If elections are not fair it should concern EVERYONE, including those who support the incumbent. Today you might support him, but a few years down the road things might be different, and you'll have thrown away the mechanisms that allow you to remove him.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12563 posts, RR: 25
Reply 32, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1722 times:

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 26):
Putin was projected to win by a large margin from the start, the vast majority of Russian are obviously happy with him,the leading opposition were communists, Putin's doing everything according to the constitution....

I guess it is constitutional to have huge control over the media and the ability to hand-pick federal officials. Not so sure about the use of the tax code to wipe out political opponents, though.

Not too conducive to free and fair elections.

Not that I'm saying the US electoral process is all that great. The amount of money from corporations and wealthy individuals in the processes, aided and abetted by the ridiculous "corporations are people" ruling from the Supreme Court, is terrible. The inability to insist on a verifiable standard voting process nationwide for federal elections is absurd. Hint: touchscreens are not verifiable. Continuous attempts to reintroduce "poll tax" concepts are despicable.

Quoting thegreatRDU (Reply 26):
I congratulate him and Obama could learn a thing or two from Putin.

Oy vey!



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1227 posts, RR: 17
Reply 33, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1719 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 31):
Perhaps, but what if it starts declining? When he's 80 and senile (like Mugabe for instance) and the country starts going down the toilet, what then? By that time he will be virtually impossible to get rid of without a lot of violence, as the constitution will have been altered to ensure he remains in power.

If elections are not fair it should concern EVERYONE, including those who support the incumbent. Today you might support him, but a few years down the road things might be different, and you'll have thrown away the mechanisms that allow you to remove him.

If that happens, we will vote him out. There is a very simple mechanism to do that - elections. And it does not seem that that is going to change.



I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1378 posts, RR: 4
Reply 34, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1713 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 33):
If that happens, we will vote him out. There is a very simple mechanism to do that - elections. And it does not seem that that is going to change.

Just be wary- it might change faster than you think.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21637 posts, RR: 55
Reply 35, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 1702 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 33):
If that happens, we will vote him out. There is a very simple mechanism to do that - elections.

The longer incumbents stay in power, the harder it becomes to remove them. That's particularly true with people who like to consolidate power the way Putin does. I would very much hope that should the Russian people someday feel the need to remove Putin from power, they will actually be able to do so.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineqantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5855 posts, RR: 39
Reply 36, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1652 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 9):
Great News! I have yet to vote as I am not in Russia right now. This means another 6 years of economic growth and stability for Russia!

seriously? are you even on the same plant as the rest of us? trillions of dollars gained from petro projects and Russia is just about out of money, that is unless, you are one of many corrupt leeches that have the paws in the governments skin.

he certainly won the battle but he has totally lost the war. His own supporters are not satisfied and the growing opposition to him cannot be brought back to the fold..won't be long before his own ex-cronies see him more of a liability than an asset.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1227 posts, RR: 17
Reply 37, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1636 times:

Quoting qantas077 (Reply 36):
are you even on the same plant as the rest of us?

I live in reality, apparently you live in Fox News.

Quoting qantas077 (Reply 36):
Russia is just about out of money

Waaaa? I think you got Russia confused for some other country...

Quoting qantas077 (Reply 36):
you are one of many corrupt leeches that have the paws in the governments skin.

So if I vote for him because my quality of life improved under him I'm corrupt?

Quoting qantas077 (Reply 36):
he certainly won the battle but he has totally lost the war. His own supporters are not satisfied and the growing opposition to him cannot be brought back to the fold..won't be long before his own ex-cronies see him more of a liability than an asset.

Clueless statement.

Quoting Mir (Reply 35):
The longer incumbents stay in power, the harder it becomes to remove them. That's particularly true with people who like to consolidate power the way Putin does. I would very much hope that should the Russian people someday feel the need to remove Putin from power, they will actually be able to do so.

Time will tell. However now the population spoke in favour, and by a wide margin.



I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlineqantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5855 posts, RR: 39
Reply 38, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1625 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 37):
I live in reality, apparently you live in Fox News.

never have, nor do I watch FOX news...

Quoting tu204 (Reply 37):
So if I vote for him because my quality of life improved under him I'm corrupt?

re-read what I wrote...I am referring to those drowning in money, how do you think they got that rich?

Quoting tu204 (Reply 37):
Clueless statement.

hahaha...actually, I will wager that he will likely not last.

Quoting tu204 (Reply 37):
Waaaa? I think you got Russia confused for some other country...

hmmm, no confusion at all.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineOV735 From Estonia, joined Jan 2004, 914 posts, RR: 3
Reply 39, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1618 times:

The Russians got what they deserve - a clown, a manipulator, and a strong-handed leader.

They need a clown who goes mammoth-hunting equipped only with a tube of Botox, a bare torso and a slingshot, to keep their eyes and minds off the fact that they live in a propaganda society. They need a manipulator to get good deals from Europe in order to keep believing they actually live in a big country. And they need a strong-handed leader because they haven't got a clue how to live in an independent society.

I'm confident Putin will keep things at home in order, unless of course he is overthrown in a coup. But as I said, the Russians got what they deserve - someone to keep them alive amidst the general bardak.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21637 posts, RR: 55
Reply 40, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1615 times:

Quoting OV735 (Reply 39):
They need a clown who goes mammoth-hunting equipped only with a tube of Botox, a bare torso and a slingshot, to keep their eyes and minds off the fact that they live in a propaganda society.

Ironically, Putin's various escapades are the prime example of a propaganda society.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3106 posts, RR: 8
Reply 41, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1560 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 33):
If that happens, we will vote him out. There is a very simple mechanism to do that - elections. And it does not seem that that is going to change.

And do you think that by the time that becomes necessary he will gladly step aside?



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 42, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1561 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 23):
Every politician does. I don't care how long Putin stays at the helm as long as the quality of life improves with every year.

Some historians say that the most important thing George Washington did as President was to leave office. In a new democracy there was real doubt as to whether leaders would actually give up power when it was time to do so. Equally as important in my opinion was the transition from John Adams, our second President, to Thomas Jefferson as this represented a change in the party in power. It was a real switch in who held the power in American government and it happened smoothly.

I say this because I believe it illustrates the reason so many are uneasy with Vladimir Putin moving back into the office of President. When people outside Russia look at what's happening they don't see a willingness to let go of power. They see a man who was forced out by the constitution, so he picked a caretaker puppet President, while maintaining his power in a different title (Prime Minister) and working to change the constitution so he could get back to the Presidency.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3106 posts, RR: 8
Reply 43, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1548 times:

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 42):
I say this because I believe it illustrates the reason so many are uneasy with Vladimir Putin moving back into the office of President. When people outside Russia look at what's happening they don't see a willingness to let go of power. They see a man who was forced out by the constitution, so he picked a caretaker puppet President, while maintaining his power in a different title (Prime Minister) and working to change the constitution so he could get back to the Presidency.

You hit the nail on the head. He may be an able leader, I don't question his ability to lead, I just point out what I think is the only flaw: obsession of power.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlinejcs17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 8065 posts, RR: 38
Reply 44, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1420 times:

The greatest part of this sham election are the "official vote totals." In no region did Putin have less than 55% of the total vote. In Muslim-dominated Chechnya which Putin savaged during his first and second term, over 99% of eligible voters went to the polls, and over 98% voted for good ol' Vlad. It's amazing the way the Russians are able to swallow this like they did Lenin and Stalin.


America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6668 posts, RR: 11
Reply 45, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1391 times:

Well, thousands gathered in protest, but not enough.

People being bussed to vote at several polling stations, others finding someone already had voted in their name, ridiculous numbers in Chechnya, opponents in prison, journalists silenced or assassinated. Yep, that's democracy 101. Putin learned from the best African leaders, as my (African) teacher said. He already said he would like to stay until 2024... No need to change the constitution either, he could still do the swap thing if need be.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 46, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1391 times:

Quoting jcs17 (Reply 44):
It's amazing the way the Russians are able to swallow this like they did Lenin and Stalin.

Rabid Russian nationalism is how the Russian citizens are doing it. And election officials have all been paid off/bribed/threatened with jail, and are thus looking the other way while Putin perverts the "free and open" democracy.....

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/06/wo...nd-in-chechnya.html?_r=1&ref=world



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1227 posts, RR: 17
Reply 47, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1352 times:

I always was amazed how people that have never been to Russia think they have a better understanding than it's citizens...
Fact of the matter is - western media is very biased against Russia, we can see this, you can't...maybe it is because we got our share of it during the USSR and learned how to read between the lines but you haven't yet...
One day...



I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 48, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1339 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 47):
One day...

On both Russian and Western citizens parts.....

Russia is a huge mafia-run nation, in my opinion. The Russian mafia exerts governance control in many areas of the Russian state.

And before I am categorized as a "cold warrior ugly American" - that is not just my opinion - check out this Wikileaks cable information. "A senior Spanish investigator alleged to the US that Moscow’s strategy was to use “organised crime groups to do whatever the government of Russia cannot acceptably do as a government”. Recent operations included gun-running to the Kurds “in an attempt to destabilise Turkey”. So the Spaniards and the Turks are also believers of this lawless situation.

Many Americans and westerners want Russians to finally be FREE and live in a open, safe, and just society, not merely subjects of the Russian mafia and their cronies (like Putin and company).

Source: http://mafiatoday.com/other-mafia-or...nt-using-mafia-for-its-dirty-work/

[Edited 2012-03-06 19:31:20]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3106 posts, RR: 8
Reply 49, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1340 times:



I'm out. Apparently, I can't have an opinion on what I think of a foreign leader without saying I don't have a clue, even though many here agree that Putin's move and the whole elections are questionable. Over and out.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1227 posts, RR: 17
Reply 50, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1328 times:

Well, as I don't know your stance on your own internal politics, I can't really judge whether you are biased or not. But from reading western press, which I do daily, I can clearly see the bias in it. The western press seems to put enjust emphasis on protests when the overwhelming majority of the population clearly supports President-elect Vladimir Putin for reasons other than his propaganda. I will admit, it is now mentioned in the western press that he has overwhelming support and in other articles that it is because during his presidency the standard of living has risen dramatically. But that information is thrown in as if it is meant to go unnoticed.
And if you want to accuse me of being paranoid or something of that matter, look at it from my point of view! One of the biggest American Rusophobes - John McCain nearly won your elections four years ago.



I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlineBarfBag From India, joined Mar 2001, 2231 posts, RR: 6
Reply 51, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1294 times:

Congratulations to Putin. A strong Russia is good for the world. Far better than the chaos during the rule of that bumbling drunk Yeltsin.


India, cricket junior and senior world champions
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7410 posts, RR: 5
Reply 52, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1280 times:

What a load of uninformed rubbish you lot are writing, the thing is there was not real opposition to Putin, the next highest polling candidate Gennady Zyuganov is a hard line communist. Russians have had enough of communism, it's surprising that he even managed 17% of the vote. People vote for the guy they know, that guy is Putin.

User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1224 posts, RR: 1
Reply 53, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1263 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 47):
Fact of the matter is - western media is very biased against Russia

Meanwhile the Russian State media is unashamedly biased towards Putin, the russian government and against most of the Western World....
A very quick scan of the Russia Today homepage reveals:

-The CIA, Mossad and Blackwater are apparently behind the violence in Syria http://bit.ly/wZk6Qj
-Russian police apparently acted 'extremely professionally' when arresting people protesting against Putin http://bit.ly/yXoRx8
-An opinion piece entitled 'Don't Blame Putin, Blame Your Ignorance' http://bit.ly/xSLntM
-Warmongering John Mccain has called for airstrikes against Syria http://bit.ly/ySmJZd

RT is not in anyway fair and balanced and in many ways is just another state propaganda machine. Despite my criticism, I openly admit that RT does have some very good journalism in issues that don't involve the russian state.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 52):
the thing is there was not real opposition to Putin, the next highest polling candidate Gennady Zyuganov is a hard line communist. Russians have had enough of communism, it's surprising that he even managed 17% of the vote. People vote for the guy they know, that guy is Putin.

  



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12563 posts, RR: 25
Reply 54, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1240 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 47):
I always was amazed how people that have never been to Russia think they have a better understanding than it's citizens...

I am not amazed that someone who is raised with state control of media, who is used to having to pay bribes for basic government service, who is used to a one-party system, all going back to their grandparent's days and beyond, has a hard time understanding a different system too.

The saying "The people get the government they deserve" is true, both inside and outside Russia.

As above, as an American, I see many flaws in the US system, and I don't care if someone from outside the US points them out. I don't feel a need to hide behind words like "internal affairs", and whenever I hear government officials using those words, I know they are hiding something they are ashamed of.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1227 posts, RR: 17
Reply 55, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1202 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 53):
eanwhile the Russian State media is unashamedly biased towards Putin, the russian government and against most of the Western World....

As according to President Medvedev's policy of a multipolar world.
Yes, and I think that is correct. It is also why as I stated above I also read western press daily. Put the two together and you get a better picture.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 54):
I am not amazed that someone who is raised with state control of media, who is used to having to pay bribes for basic government service, who is used to a one-party system, all going back to their grandparent's days and beyond, has a hard time understanding a different system too.

I grew up in Canada moving to Russia only in 2003. (something that would not have happened had Putin not been elected in 2000 and not turned the country around). I also lived in the U.S. in 1995-1996 (liked it; have visited the states since then several times and really noticed a downward trend in freedom and the culture in general; maybe I was just young back then, but I found people alot friendlier and open minded back then, now many of the people I still talk to that live in the states seem downright paranoid)
So I was not raised from birth in above said atmosphere. But it does give me an objective picture to judge the western press. Might not be state controlled, but the shit it spits out frequently tops what we see in the Russian press. Difference is that in Russia people can read between the lines and take what they read/see with a grain of salt. Many in the west do not have this ability (yet), but if you read comments to the articles I would say that about half of the readers that comment see through it. Glad this is happening in the west. Took us a while to learn to read through our propaganda, you guys are only a bit behind.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 54):
As above, as an American, I see many flaws in the US system, and I don't care if someone from outside the US points them out. I don't feel a need to hide behind words like "internal affairs", and whenever I hear government officials using those words, I know they are hiding something they are ashamed of.

Ok, I respect that. But you have to understand that probably most of the world's population does not. Internal affairs are just that - internal. When you start interfering with other countrie's internal affairs, imposing your views on someone else. "Teaching you how to live".

Quoting zkojq (Reply 53):
-Russian police apparently acted 'extremely professionally' when arresting people protesting against Putin

Well, actually they did. Maybe the police reform is actually working. Look at protests in western countries, I would say more forced is used in dispersing those than the recent (unauthorised) protests in Russia. They wanted to get arrested - they got what they wanted. They were authorised a meeting where they wanted at the time they wanted. Afterwards, that it, disperse. Most did, a couple stayed behind, they got arrested. No excessive force, no escessive penalties. Maximum 15 day detention, most just get booked and released. Whats wrong with that?

Quoting zkojq (Reply 53):
-Warmongering John Mccain has called for airstrikes against Syria

Well, he is! I don't even know how he ran for president and got a large percent of the vote. I don't know how his internal politics are, but his foreign policies and views are just like our own clown, Vladimir Zhirinovsky. However our clown only gets 3-7% of the vote, the U.S. clown gets 45%.
Let me now thank the American population for not electing that nutcase and thus making the world a safer place for the rest of us.



I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1227 posts, RR: 17
Reply 56, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1198 times:

Quoting qantas077 (Reply 36):
trillions of dollars gained from petro projects and Russia is just about out of money

Actually after a quick look, it looks like Australia is quite literally "out of money".

As per wikipedia

Russian Federation:
Gross Foreign Debt - 471bln
Foreign Reserves - 513 billion

Australia:
Gross Foreign Debt - 1.16 TRILLION
Foreign Reserves - 41 Billion

You want me to lend you a couple bucks?



I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlineslider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6816 posts, RR: 34
Reply 57, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1191 times:

Quoting OV735 (Reply 39):
The Russians got what they deserve - a clown, a manipulator, and a strong-handed leader.

They need a clown who goes mammoth-hunting equipped only with a tube of Botox, a bare torso and a slingshot, to keep their eyes and minds off the fact that they live in a propaganda society. They need a manipulator to get good deals from Europe in order to keep believing they actually live in a big country. And they need a strong-handed leader because they haven't got a clue how to live in an independent society.

I'm confident Putin will keep things at home in order, unless of course he is overthrown in a coup. But as I said, the Russians got what they deserve - someone to keep them alive amidst the general bardak.

Well said.

The bear is rising again in Russia, thanks to petrodollars largely and a guy like Putin who conveys strength and nationalism. People eat it up. It's part of the human dynamic.

It's troubling that Putin has been somewhat pugnacious in his positions and statements of support, but there are a LOT of balls in the air with regard to Russia's political interface with many nations.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...n-rising-russia-regressing-editors

While a very brief simple article and hardly a treatise (Foreign Affairs had a very interesting piece a while back on the resuscitation of the Soviet studies folks from Dept of State who are having to re-engage because of present day issues--I thought that alone was illuminating) there can be no doubt that Russia isn't a democracy. Frankly, I don't care what they are or are not but am concerned about the repercussions of an increasingly bellicose Putin and what it may mean in the future.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12563 posts, RR: 25
Reply 58, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1184 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 55):
So I was not raised from birth in above said atmosphere. But it does give me an objective picture to judge the western press. Might not be state controlled, but the shit it spits out frequently tops what we see in the Russian press. Difference is that in Russia people can read between the lines and take what they read/see with a grain of salt. Many in the west do not have this ability (yet), but if you read comments to the articles I would say that about half of the readers that comment see through it. Glad this is happening in the west. Took us a while to learn to read through our propaganda, you guys are only a bit behind.

Interesting. What about bribes? My Russian friends say it's 100% commonplace to bribe a cop to get off from paying a ticket, it's totally necessary to bribe at medical centers, things like passports and visas move a lot quicker with bribes, ones without may get lost, etc. I've never bribed a cop, a doctor, or a border guard, nor has anyone in my immediate family to my knowledge. How about you?

Quoting tu204 (Reply 55):
Ok, I respect that. But you have to understand that probably most of the world's population does not. Internal affairs are just that - internal. When you start interfering with other countrie's internal affairs, imposing your views on someone else. "Teaching you how to live".

Sure, I am against interfering with internal affairs and imposing wills, but more often than not, such words get used when one merely COMMENTS about election issues, corruption, human rights, etc. as a way to avoid dealing with the comments. Since you've lived many different places, you must see how many news articles you'll find on CBC, BBC, Russia Today, etc, commenting on US "internal" issues, but we don't make a fuss about it.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinetu204 From Russia, joined Mar 2006, 1227 posts, RR: 17
Reply 59, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1126 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 58):
Interesting. What about bribes? My Russian friends say it's 100% commonplace to bribe a cop to get off from paying a ticket, it's totally necessary to bribe at medical centers, things like passports and visas move a lot quicker with bribes, ones without may get lost, etc. I've never bribed a cop, a doctor, or a border guard, nor has anyone in my immediate family to my knowledge. How about you?

It was alot more commonplace before. Take for example the police. Since the Police reform a year ago (where about 1/3rd of officers were fired and the rest were given a 2x pay raise) it is alot less commonplace to bribe a traffic cop into letting you off. To be honest here, I only had one occurance of trying to bribe a cop off, something I will never try again, and mainly because I felt ashamed.
This summer I was pulled over for going backwards on a street in Moscow (I had missed my turn), a cop immediately pulled me over, he asked for the vehicle's documents and registration and I asked if there is anything I can do for him because I am in a hurry and showed him my pilot documents, informed him that I would be late for a flight. He just looked at me and said "It looks to me like you are trying to offer me a bribe, which is a violation of federal law number 291. I understand that you are in a hurry and I will hurry up and give you the ticket. Try that again, and my response will be different." After talking to the guy, I got off with a $3 ticket for "dirty headlights" and another $3 ticket for speeding by 4km/h, but I never gave him anything, he just felt sorry for me. I understand that this is something very unlikely in the U.S., but I never gave him a bribe or tried to after his stern warning. Plus he added a couple phrases that people that are resposible for the lives of others should know better.
As far as doctors go, before my wife gave birth a year and a half ago, I gave the head-doctor (don't know how it is called in English) a gift basket and one to the on duty nurse, but I don't consider that a bribe. Plus the nurse was very reluctant to take it (I just left it on her desk and walked out while saying "Thank you in advance for my son".)
When I was re-registering my car, after an annoying 4 hour wait, I finally got my licsense plates and wanted to treat the inspector (a police officer) to a box of candy ($10 value), she didn't want to take it although she deserved it (the car was from the Russian far east, they had to call the last place it was registered several times, which is several (I think 8) time zones ahead and she actually called from her home at 2 in the morning to confirm the old papers were not forged). Took a couple of minutes of convincing to get her to accept my little "bribe".
But I have never been extorted money by police, passport office, going to the doctor or anything like that. I just make it a personal rule to give people gifts for help that they provide me if they deserve it....Not only in Russia but anywhere I go. Helped me out in life many times and just like the last example where I gave the vehicle inspector some "gift-candy" and she said that she is just doing her job and not to give her anything, I replied with "you are doing it well, thank you" gives me some personal satisfaction.
Even with my cousin and I's small business encounter in Omsk (medium sized town) when we had some issues with our annual tax papers, the tax inspector just called us and said we had two days to get our accountant to straighten shit out (almost exactly what he said, he was pissed). We really screwed up and he could have nailed us, extorted us, and the tax service of Russia is said to be corrupt.

My conclusion is now that the state is raising "state" salaries (teachers, police, doctors, inspector's) salaries much faster than the inflation rate or the salary growth rate of private companies, the said employees of the state, with their guaranteed job security and benefits are much more reluctant to take any bribes that put said jobs in danger.
Plus, some regions, like my wife's native Tatarstan have launched their own anti-corruption programs: In Tatarstan, if you offer a traffic cop a bribe and you are convicted of giving said bribe, the ammount of the bribe is given to you in the form of a bonus (minus a 13% income tax) plus some pats on the back from your chief of police.
So for example in Tatarstan, what is the point of risking a good job for some quick cash when you will get it anyways?

There are programs like this throughout Russia to stop lower and mid level corruption. They are working, slowly, but in the right direction.
I do admit that we have a problem with higher level corruption (multi-million level) that should be adressed more seriously; but you have the same problem, you just call it "lobying" while we call it "corruption".

Quoting Revelation (Reply 58):
Sure, I am against interfering with internal affairs and imposing wills, but more often than not, such words get used when one merely COMMENTS about election issues, corruption, human rights, etc. as a way to avoid dealing with the comments. Since you've lived many different places, you must see how many news articles you'll find on CBC, BBC, Russia Today, etc, commenting on US "internal" issues, but we don't make a fuss about it.

True, but to be unbiased, the above said stations (including any Russian stations) should report the FULL STORY - that is that there are protests in Russia, but that the overwhelming majority supports Putin and for the real reasons.
Just as the Russian stations should report that the protestors arrested in NY trying to block the Brooklyn Bridge were arrested mainly beacuse they violated local laws and not because they were against the Obama regime.
If you look at it from the side, it is the same "propaganda" and "biased news reports" - just from different sides of the field.



I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12563 posts, RR: 25
Reply 60, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1072 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 59):
It was alot more commonplace before.

Thanks for the update. I'm glad things are improving. As you note, a big problem in the past has been that public officials were underpaid and the penalties for accepting bribes were not severe and not often enforced.

Quoting tu204 (Reply 59):
If you look at it from the side, it is the same "propaganda" and "biased news reports" - just from different sides of the field.

One does learn to read news from all sources knowing that someone is probably putting a spin on things.

I think your general message is one being received by those who are listening. Russians feel good about Putin because he has done a lot to raise the living standards of the average person and has raised Russia's stature as a nation. However we have all seen what happens as more wealth and power gets put in the hands of fewer and fewer people. It certainly is happening in the US as well.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineqantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5855 posts, RR: 39
Reply 61, posted (2 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1000 times:

Quoting tu204 (Reply 56):

Actually after a quick look, it looks like Australia is quite literally "out of money".

lol...you get that from Wikipedia, well hows this for size...Australia was the only economy in the world to come out of the GFC relatively unscathed and without falling into recession. It actually grew economically during the GFC, comparing a country the size of Russia with Australia makes your argument seem quite pathetic.

just to stick it in a little further...as per your source.

"Australia's per-capita GDP is higher than that of the UK, Germany, and France in terms of purchasing power parity. The country was ranked second in the United Nations 2011 Human Development Index and sixth in The Economist worldwide quality-of-life index 2005. [2] [3] Australia's sovereign credit rating is "AAA", higher than the United States of America and Australia's four 'Big Banks' are among the 25 'Worlds Safest Banks of 2011'.[23] Australia has highest ratio of assets to population than any country in the World. The country's government debt to GDP is the lowest among OECD countries. The Australian government aims to run surpluses from 2012/13."



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
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