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Geneva Auto Show  
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3733 posts, RR: 3
Posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2245 times:

There will be a slew of announcements and unveilings this week, and not every car needs a thread so I will start dumping some things here....

Of interest to diesel and hybrid fanboys alike is VW's Cross Coupe. With a pure electric range of 28 miles combined with a TDI, they say the plug-in hybrid will get 130 MPGe on the European test.



This may compare favorably with the just-announced 2012 European Car of the Year..... the Opel Amp/Chevrolet Volt which gets ~99 MPGe on the US test.




The Brits bring out the ugly.....



The Italians bring out the lovely....



VW continues the transition to alternatives by announcing Audi will offer 3 plug-in hybrids by 2014, in addition to a hybrid F1...



CEO Norbert Reithofer said today that BMW is in talks with General Motors on future technologies such as fuel cells and may extend cooperation with PSA Peugeot Citroen on gasoline engines.

[Edited 2012-03-06 08:45:14]

21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

Quoting mham001 (Thread starter):
There will be a slew of announcements and unveilings this week, and not every car needs a thread so I will start dumping some things here....

Nice one, thanks!

Quoting mham001 (Thread starter):
The Brits bring out the ugly....

I don't like the Bentley, but I would not call the Evoque convertible "ugly".

Quoting mham001 (Thread starter):
may extend cooperation with PSA Peugeot Citroen on gasoline engines

That cooperation between BMW and PSA for petrol engines is the best thing that happened to the French company in years. A (possible) extenstion of the partnership would be good news!



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2216 times:

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 1):
I don't like the Bentley, but I would not call the Evoque convertible "ugly".

No, the correct term is "stupid".   


New Mercedes A-Class
http://i.imgur.com/Ud57O.jpg

Abandoning the senior demographic that so far has loved the A-Class. Don't know if that move will pay off...


New Audi A3
http://i.imgur.com/sF4iG.jpg

Yawn.


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3733 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2209 times:

Ford confirms production of the 177hp Fiesta ST for the European market. The US may or may not see it.



Ferrari unveils all 740hp of F12 Berlinetta...

Big version: Width: 628 Height: 417 File size: 84kb


In the "What are they thinking?" department, Fiat never disappoints....

Big version: Width: 628 Height: 418 File size: 100kb


[Edited 2012-03-06 10:14:41]

User currently offlineGrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2869 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2172 times:

Citroën introduced their DS4 R concept:

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17ehu0016ib3xjpg/original.jpg

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17ehu000yfhpajpg/original.jpg

Quoting racko (Reply 2):
No, the correct term is "stupid"

Probably  



"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1661 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2119 times:

Quoting racko (Reply 2):

New Audi A3


Yawn.

Before we start yawning, id like to point out the TDI version of the new A3 gets 61.9 US MPG. Pretty freaking awesome.Sure beats the hell out of any of these "green" vehicles.



Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2117 times:

Quoting mham001 (Thread starter):
This may compare favorably with the just-announced 2012 European Car of the Year..... the Opel Amp/Chevrolet Volt which gets ~99 MPGe on the US test.

...and they made it uglier.

Quoting GrahamHill (Reply 1):
but I would not call the Evoque convertible "ugly".

Not ugly, but it holds no appeal to me. Now 30 something fashionable women might be a different story.

Quoting racko (Reply 2):
New Mercedes A-Class

Looks like they put a Mercedes nose on a Fiat Punto. Europe can keep that one.

Quoting racko (Reply 2):
New Audi A3

...which looks just like the old A3, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I feel like Audi has come out with several new cars which are hardly distinguishable from the old ones, which again, is not really bad.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3733 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2051 times:



Quoting flanker (Reply 5):
Before we start yawning, id like to point out the TDI version of the new A3 gets 61.9 US MPG. Pretty freaking awesome.Sure beats the hell out of any of these "green" vehicles.

This is why people with brains give the diesel fans such a hard time. You fall for whatever big number they throw out and say..."see?"

VW has gotten quite good at doing that and confusing the gullible. Did you consider how they could improve the mileage a whopping 50% by losing 175 lbs and a little makeover? They didn't. The number you provided is a bad conversion (should be 57) to US gallons of the European test.

[Edited 2012-03-07 09:04:29]

User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2041 times:

German Audi page says 4,1l/100km, which is 57,3 US MPG.

User currently offlineflanker From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1661 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2034 times:

Audiworld / Audizine are both reporting from Audi Media.

http://audiworld.com/news/12/2013-audi-a3/

A version with an exceptionally efficient 1.6 TDI engine will launch on the market in 2012; it consumes just 3.8 liters of diesel/100 km (61.90 US mpg), which is equivalent to 99 g/CO2 (159.33 g/mile).


looks pretty damn nice in silver..

http://audiworld.com/news/12/2013-audi-a3/



Calling an illegal alien an 'undocumented immigrant' is like calling a drug dealer an unlicensed pharmacist
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2028 times:

Quoting mham001 (Thread starter):
The Brits bring out the ugly.....

It is amazing to me that a country that trained Jonathan Ive (Apple's designer) can deign something that ugly.

Quoting racko (Reply 2):
New Mercedes A-Class

It looks like Hyundai was the major design group designing that one


User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3733 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2004 times:

Quoting racko (Reply 8):
German Audi page says 4,1l/100km, which is 57,3 US MPG.

Problem with that number from a US perspective is that it is derived from the European test which is significantly different than the US test, so any comparisons from this side don't correlate. A general rule of thumb is that the US test gets ~20% less than the European test.
The 2012 A3 TDI gets 30/42 or 34 combined on the US test. Audi says they expect a 20% increase with the 2013 which is exactly how it works out. 2012 A3 gets 5.9 l/100km, 2013 uses exactly 20% less by your numbers..

Figure another -18% if they are quoting Imperial gallons.

Interesting they plan a CNG and hybrid. CNG is a good stepping stone for US. We have plenty and it burns cleaner than any other fossil fuel.

Today in Geneva, it was BMW day. Nothing too interesting that hasn't been mostly seen already, the M6 looks very healthy, but I don't know how many versions of the Mini they think they need to keep us interested...and how can they be so wrong on the definition of "coupe"???



Chevy also unveiled the Cruze Wagon, Europe only.



This is the eye candy of the day. Not sure if it's gonna be sweet or sour....

Pagani Huayra Carbon Edition


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7854 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1991 times:

Quoting racko (Reply 2):


Abandoning the senior demographic that so far has loved the A-Class. Don't know if that move will pay off...

They can always buy a B class.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 11):
Pagani Huayra Carbon Edition

Whoever laid up the carbon on that was a genius, that's a god damn work of art.

I like the XF Sportbrake, it's the best looking wagon on sale IMO



The Brabus Bullit Coupe 800 is a beast



The Ruf RGT 8, doing what Porsche should do, put a V8 in a 911

http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/gallery/geneva-2012-ruf-rgt8/Geneva%202012%20RUF%20RGT8%20005.jpg


User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1983 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 11):
how can they be so wrong on the definition of "coupe"???

Couldn't look on to the CLS, A5 & A7 selling so well forever.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 11):
Chevy also unveiled the Cruze Wagon, Europe only.

Glad one won't have to look at that on the road.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
They can always buy a B class.

That's what they're probably hoping for, but a B-Class is 4,36m long...there's tons of alternatives there. The A-Class was unique in that it offered the easy-access seat height and quality in a very compact car. Around here you see them a lot, and it's always old folks. Why should they now go for a B-Class instead of a smaller Golf Plus?

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
The Ruf RGT 8, doing what Porsche should do, put a V8 in a 911

Blasphemy!


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1972 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 11):

Today in Geneva, it was BMW day.

Unfortunately it seems that the M diesel line will not be coming to the US, which is very unfortunate. It would have been a nice middle ground in terms of price and civility between the M Sport optioned cars and the "real" M cars.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 11):
Pagani Huayra Carbon Edition

Yes please.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
The Ruf RGT 8, doing what Porsche should do, put a V8 in a 911

It's the power that counts. It likely will never be necessary with modern turbo technology.

Quoting racko (Reply 13):
Couldn't look on to the CLS, A5 & A7 selling so well forever

I like the four door coupes, the styling tends to be pretty good. The rear of the CLS could use some help, but the A7 is really good looking.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineIH8BY From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1143 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1961 times:

Although pictures have already been shown, the Peugeot 208 gets its motor show debut in Geneva, so probably worth weighing in with the 208 GTi concept...




Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 1937 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 11):
Interesting they plan a CNG and hybrid. CNG is a good stepping stone for US. We have plenty and it burns cleaner than any other fossil fuel.

Ford & GM (Holden) have been using CNG in their cars for decades in Australia. Check out the taxis in SYD & MEL.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 11):
Chevy also unveiled the Cruze Wagon, Europe only.

That is pretty much what my daughter wants for replacing a Saturn wagon.

Quoting racko (Reply 13):
Glad one won't have to look at that on the road.

I don't have a problem with it, especially after looking at all the SUV's on the road. I consider those SUVs to be station wagons guilt on a truck frame.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 11):
Not sure if it's gonna be sweet or sour....

The front reminds me of the old Triumph Spitfire (and XK-E) that hinged from the front to open the engine up to work on.

Quoting racko (Reply 13):
Around here you see them a lot, and it's always old folks.

The great things about us old folks is that we are sufficient in the market to keep cars there for when YOU need them. The greatest part of being old is that I got there. These days I want cars that are reasonably easy to get in & out of. One that is comfortable to drive when I get on the road, etc. And I have no doubt that you will be equally appreciative of those design qualities in the years to come.   


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7854 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1921 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
It's the power that counts. It likely will never be necessary with modern turbo technology.

But the noise that RUF's V8 makes is insane, that is enough reason for me to buy one, if I could afford it. Sounds better than a 458.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 16):
Ford & GM (Holden) have been using CNG in their cars for decades in Australia. Check out the taxis in SYD & MEL.

Range on CNG isn't the best, plus the tanks take up a lot of boot space.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1913 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17):
But the noise that RUF's V8 makes is insane, that is enough reason for me to buy one, if I could afford it.

I wonder what the weight of that engine is. It took Porsche the better part of three decades to fix the weight distribution and I'm not sure that replacing the flat 6 with a V8 sitting in the rear will do it any favors. The weight distribution of the 991 is almost identical to the 997 (38/62) probably mostly because of Porsche taking so much weight out of the front of the car.

Honestly, I'd take a Cayman and use the change to do some serious tuning.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17):
Sounds better than a 458.

...a customer 458 or one of the ones they give to the media?

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17):
Range on CNG isn't the best, plus the tanks take up a lot of boot space.

Dodge just showed a CNG powered Ram. (OK, Rams aren't technically Dodges anymore, but whatever) Anyway, it looks like the CNG tanks take up somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of the bed space. That would make them likely bulkier but lighter than batteries.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7854 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1902 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):
I wonder what the weight of that engine is.

I read somewhere that the RUF V8 weighs slightly more than the non turbo flat 6, but less than the turbo flat 6.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 18):
Honestly, I'd take a Cayman and use the change to do some serious tuning.

Here you go, the RUF CTR3, mid engined Porsches don't get any faster than this.

http://www.gtspirit.com/wp-content/gallery/geneva-2012-ruf-ctr3-clubsport/Geneva%202012%20RUF%20CTR3%20Clubsport%20006.jpg


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1856 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 19):
Here you go, the RUF CTR3, mid engined Porsches don't get any faster than this.

They've made a few improvements since introducing it a few years ago. Of course, the CTR3, like all Rufs, isn't technically a Porsche at all and the CTR3 uses only the front half of a 911. The rear is a Ruf specific tube frame.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 19):
I read somewhere that the RUF V8 weighs slightly more than the non turbo flat 6, but less than the turbo flat 6.

That's probably a fair trade.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3849 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1837 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 12):
I like the XF Sportbrake, it's the best looking wagon on sale IMO

Wow.
The Bentley above is a terrorist attack on the eyes, but that cat is absolutely stunning, even if I have a weak spot for wagons.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
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