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Going PC To Mac  
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Posted (2 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 2755 times:

So after fighting yet another windows 'bug' it's time to step up and go Mac. I've been looking at the Mac Mini and it looks to offer a lot of what I need. I have a great HD monitor and a brand new Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse. Are there any Mac Mini owners out there..? Your thoughts..? How hard or easy is it to move my files over..? I'm sure iTunes will be easy, but what about pictures, favorites and email contacts..?

After I posted a previous blog came up about transfering, so I guess I guess I'll ask.. is it really just that easy..? I'm using Firfox and Thunderbird.

[Edited 2012-03-18 14:57:08]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8617 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 2751 times:

Before I go to bed: you ought to tell people which software you use for e.g. e-mail so that they can give you specific advice.   Migrating all my Thunderbird stuff (e-mails, folders, contacts) was very easy, for example.


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2915 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 19 hours ago) and read 2736 times:

Not a Mac Mini owner, but I know a bit about it. It's a great product if you already have the "rest" of the computer. Moving files over should not be a big problem. There are detailed ways to do so online; It's not the most difficult thing to do. For browser favorites, if you use Chrome, for example, you can "log in" to any computer's version of Chrome and have everything ported over automatically. For emails, If you're using Outlook and want to port over into Mail, it's a bit more complicated; I've never had to do it, but I've heard it can be a bit of a pain. Again, a Google search should bring up some tutorials....

On the Mini itself, the biggest downside is the fact that it has not optical drive. If you want a sleek Apple drive, you need to shell out an additional $70 for a SuperDrive.

Since you're porting from Windows to Apple, I'd recommend taking a look into Parallels Desktop- any Intel Mac can run Windows, but you need shut the computer off and turn it on using the OS you want. With Parallels, there is no need to turn anything off- you can run both systems at the same time. It may be useful if there are programs you want to use that won't work on a Mac- like FS, for example, or Outlook (which I hate) if you can't port your stuff over into Mail.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 18 hours ago) and read 2711 times:

Apple is just about to start the transition of their Mac lineup to the new Ivy Bridge Intel platform, likely introducing USB3 in the process in addition to the already present Thunderbolt. Unfortunately the mini is likely to be the last to make that transition, so for several months the mini will still be the old (outgoing) model.

The transition will likely go through the MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, Mac Pro, iMac and finally the Mac mini, roughly in that order.

You'll generally fare best by either getting a used or refurbished one cheaper now or by waiting for the new model – that will give you the best value overall.

There are quite a few tutorial videos on the Apple site. Some of them may be interesting for you: http://www.apple.com/findouthow/mac/


User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2915 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 18 hours ago) and read 2696 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
Apple is just about to start the transition of their Mac lineup to the new Ivy Bridge Intel platform

Ah yes. I'm particularly exited for the new MacBook Pro; my MacBook is quite old and in need of replacement. I've been hearing sometime in the next month they may announce the new ones... We shall see. For me, the earlier, the better.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4845 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2525 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
The transition will likely go through the MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, Mac Pro, iMac and finally the Mac mini, roughly in that order.

Any idea when the Air is going to be refreshed?

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2469 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 5):
Any idea when the Air is going to be refreshed?

Nothing solid, but Apple tends to do the MacBook Pros and MacBook Airs early in the cycle. There are rumors about production already being started for the new models, but this is still serious tea leaves business…!   

The Mac Pro should not take too long either, since the new Xeons have just become available, unless Apple should decide to drop it from the lineup (which many people seem to expect, but I don't see that happening).

I have no solid information about these things right now; These are just rumors and deductions from public information so far.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8203 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2401 times:

Quoting YOWza (Reply 5):

Any idea when the Air is going to be refreshed?

That will definitely happen this year. Look for the screen bezels to go way out to the edge of the chassis. Way more pixels. They will introduce a larger Macbook Air and IMO, they will kill the Macbook Pro. The 2 lines are increasingly similar as it is.

If you can wait till later in 2012, there will be some very appealing mac portables. Probably the sleekest full functioning workstations ever done by anybody.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2392 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 7):
They will introduce a larger Macbook Air and IMO, they will kill the Macbook Pro. The 2 lines are increasingly similar as it is.

Not really. They will probably add a 15" Air and they will certainly ditch the optical drive (which is increasingly pointless) from the Pro sooner rather than later, but CPU and graphics power can't be pushed in an Air form factor; The same is true for large storage.

The MacBook Pro is very profitable and it still is a strategic product, so I would be very surprised if they dropped it. This has been "predicted" since the days the iPod first became successful, but it has never happened, and I very much doubt it will now.

The difference between what can be done in an Air and what is needed for a Pro is still far too big.

Without the optical drive the Pro will probably become more similar to the Air (which would be ergonomically positive), but I'm almost certain that the Pro will remain a separate product line.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8203 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2377 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 8):
Without the optical drive the Pro will probably become more similar to the Air (which would be ergonomically positive), but I'm almost certain that the Pro will remain a separate product line.

Until this moment I have agreed with this analysis, but I think indeed the Air can be about equal to the current Pro (or better) without the form factor. The two needs for Pro enclosure are optical and hard drive. Once Apple ditches the 2.5 inch hard drive, there is no need for the "pro" enclosure anymore. The 13" Air currently sold has a 4 core Intel i5, which is the near equal of the Pro product. My elderly dad has the current Air model. It is the equal of my 13" Pro in every way (in fact it is faster, and has more screen) and has nearly the same amount of storage. But, the Air was at least $1000 more money, so, there is that.

We'll see, won't we?

 


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4845 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2337 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
I have no solid information about these things right now; These are just rumors and deductions from public information so far.

Thanks. Much appreciated.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 7):
That will definitely happen this year. Look for the screen bezels to go way out to the edge of the chassis. Way more pixels. They will introduce a larger Macbook Air and IMO, they will kill the Macbook Pro. The 2 lines are increasingly similar as it is.

If you can wait till later in 2012, there will be some very appealing mac portables. Probably the sleekest full functioning workstations ever done by anybody.

Cheers.

I'm looking at getting an Air for the second time. I had the original Air for a couple days and hated it. I'm willing to give it a second just so that I can hammer out some iPhone apps.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 6639 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2334 times:

I just transitioned our home laptop form a POS Samsung to a MacBook Pro, it was easy, no complaints so far, once you go Mac it's really easy to be sucked into the whole system, we already had several iPods, my wife has an iPhone 4G, an iPad, my work has just moved everyone over to iPhone 4Gs, everything's all nicely linked, it would be very hard to move back to a PC.

User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2301 times:

Well to update all.. I took the leap Sunday night. I ordered a Mac Mini and it has arrived already. I guess they have a warehouse right here in Nashville. I bought the 'One on One' service, so I'll run it down to the Apple Store and have them move my data over. I also picked up the iPad 3 and should see that in a few days


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineN243NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1609 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2290 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 12):
I took the leap Sunday night.

I wish you all the best! I've only owned a few pieces of Apple hardware but I've had only terrific experiences from it all. In fact, I'm typing this on my 5 1/2-year-old MacBook that's still running strong. Sure, it's slow by today's standards, but it's still remarkably capable for its age.

I was originally going to wait for this thing to finally croak, but if it doesn't happen in a couple months I may be shelling out for a new MacBook Pro anyway. Sounds like the new generation is pretty close to being released.



B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
User currently offlinejoffie From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 802 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2279 times:

I want to get a macbook air, but should I wait for a month or so until they update them? They usually keep the price like the ipad.. ohh, I got the new ipad and enjoy it!

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2221 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 9):
The two needs for Pro enclosure are optical and hard drive. Once Apple ditches the 2.5 inch hard drive, there is no need for the "pro" enclosure anymore.

No, these are not the only reasons.

The MacBook Pro 13" is not a "true" MacBook Pro in this sense, but the 15" and 17" models have much bigger CPU variants which require a lot more battery power, generate a lot more heat and thus require much better cooling. In addition, these machines have dedicated graphics processors which provide a lot more graphics power than the integrated graphics in the Airs and in the 13" MBP. Among other things, you can connect dual Thunderbolt Displays to them in addition to the internal display for a total of three individual screens at the same time.

So the "real" MBPs (15" and 17") need much bigger batteries, much better cooling, more space for the discrete graphics processor and its graphics memory plus an additional fan cooling it, and that on top of the mechanical harddisk which is needed for the large amounts of storage which are not practical with SSDs yet.

So while kicking out the large optical drive will probably allow them to change the MacBook Pros in the direction of the Airs (particularly making them thinner at the front so they get more pleasant to type on), they will probably still retain the harddisk, they will still need the space and the battery for the dedicated graphics processor and the battery and cooling for the faster CPU.

The new Ivy Bridge processor line is supposed to be more efficient, but that means primarily that they can get more performance out of the same amount of battery power.

The Airs still sacrifice the big harddisk, the discrete GPU and the bigger CPU for lower weight and a more compact form. But for quite a few people, these features are still important. It is a strategically important and very lucrative segment for Apple. So I don't see them dropping it.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 9):
The 13" Air currently sold has a 4 core Intel i5, which is the near equal of the Pro product.

No, all Airs have dual-core CPUs; The MacBook Pro 13" (which effectively is a MacBook Air with an optical drive, a harddisk and a few more ports) also has only dual-cores, but it is also available with a dual-core i7 which has hyperthreading, adding two more virtual cores which effectively bring only a fractional increase in performance, however.

Only the MacBook Pro 15" and 17" have true quad-core i7 CPUs (plus hyperthreading for eight virtual cores in total).

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 12):
Well to update all.. I took the leap Sunday night. I ordered a Mac Mini and it has arrived already. I guess they have a warehouse right here in Nashville.

Congratulations – I hope all is going well. You'll certainly need to take a bit of time adjusting to it all. Many things are a bit different at first than you might be used to. Take your time and always try doing things the way they ought to work – in most cases, that's how they do.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 12):
I bought the 'One on One' service, so I'll run it down to the Apple Store and have them move my data over.

Good idea!

Quoting joffie (Reply 14):
I want to get a macbook air, but should I wait for a month or so until they update them? They usually keep the price like the ipad..

Yes. You should wait if you can. The Air is probably one of the first models to get the new CPUs, so it shouldn't be too long.

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 12):
I also picked up the iPad 3 and should see that in a few days
Quoting joffie (Reply 14):
ohh, I got the new ipad and enjoy it!

Nice, isn't it? 
Particularly with Retina-resolution apps starting to come out (check out Pinball HD Collection – stunning!).


User currently offlineswissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2210 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 11):
I just transitioned our home laptop form a POS Samsung to a MacBook Pro, it was easy, no complaints so far, once you go Mac it's really easy to be sucked into the whole system, we already had several iPods, my wife has an iPhone 4G, an iPad, my work has just moved everyone over to iPhone 4Gs, everything's all nicely linked, it would be very hard to move back to a PC.

I am going that route too   it's all my wife's (and Klaus'es) fault !!!LOL

Her IPad 3, (her mommy's day gift) should arrive today @ our house... what is really fantastic is how everything is linked and easy to use. She has no issues with her IPhone, she does all setups/updates without bugging me. So we see how everything will be linked with her phone and Ipad... and I might consider a laptop from Apple.... down the road ...

Cheerios! and thanks Klaus 


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2199 times:

Quoting swissy (Reply 16):
I am going that route too it's all my wife's (and Klaus'es) fault !!!LOL

Hey, I didn't force you at gunpoint, did I?
 
Quoting swissy (Reply 16):
Cheerios! and thanks Klaus 

You're welcome. Glad to help.  


User currently offlineswissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 2143 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 17):

Hey, I didn't force you at gunpoint, did I?

No gun, just flowers   LOL, but you have facts , I had many years of frustrations because my wife just did not like any "gadgets" like smart phones, tablets or computers.....
Just remember all!! A happy wife a happy life  
Sure Apple is not perfect by any means   Klaus, but it is a product that just works well for people in general and is very well build easy to use right out of the box. I always was a MS guy (worked for them also for 2 years in the 90's) but I am at the point were I seriously consider a laptop form Apple   just don't tell Bill  

We also have to understand/accept Apple is today not what it was back in the 80's or early 90's... I am very happy with my IPhone over all sure there is stuff that was better on my BB..but hey it works both ways  


Cheerios


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2111 times:

Quoting swissy (Reply 18):
Sure Apple is not perfect by any means   Klaus, but it is a product that just works well for people in general and is very well build easy to use right out of the box.

Exactly!

Quoting swissy (Reply 18):
I always was a MS guy (worked for them also for 2 years in the 90's) but I am at the point were I seriously consider a laptop form Apple   just don't tell Bill  

Oh, there have always been rumours of Bill being a closet Mac user himself…!   


User currently offlineGoBoeing From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 2679 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

I cannot recommend switching to the Mac side.

It has been the single worst purchase of any piece of equipment I have ever made.

It does the exact same thing as counterparts that cost hundreds of dollars less.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 6639 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2009 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
Oh, there have always been rumours of Bill being a closet Mac user himself…!

Bill probably has a secret room full of Apple products in his wee house.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2000 times:

Quoting GoBoeing (Reply 20):
I cannot recommend switching to the Mac side.

It has been the single worst purchase of any piece of equipment I have ever made.

By far most people who make the switch have a completely different experience.

You'd need to elaborate why your experience had been so horrible and why it applies to everybody in general in your view – if you're not just trolling. The way your post is thrown in here leaves that possibility to be quite plausible, so please explain.


User currently offlineGingersnap From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2010, 892 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1973 times:

Apple products are generally good pieces of kit no doubt, and I would never say bad against anyone who decided to go down that route.

Personally, whilst we have iPads, iPhones and iPods galore in this household, none of us could ever get our head around the Macbook and what it was supposed to offer over an equivalent PC. I know the price gets mentioned a lot, but an equivalent PC/laptop was always much, much cheaper in every single case. Until Apple decides to market their computing products at a reasonable price, then we shall refrain from purchasing them again.

As I say, we have nearly every other Apple product going so don't think I'm bashing the company by any means. I enjoy what their other products do, and I've not had a single problem to date. A friend of mine whilst exaggerating, claimed that the price of Macbooks are so high it's basically legal extortion.

An exaggeration indeed but even the most hardened Apple supporter should be able to see where he is coming from with that.



Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
User currently offlineBigMac From Suriname, joined Nov 2003, 318 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1913 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 23):
You'd need to elaborate why your experience had been so horrible and why it applies to everybody in general in your view – if you're not just trolling. The way your post is thrown in here leaves that possibility to be quite plausible, so please explain.

You forgot to quote GoBoeing's third line: "It does the exact same thing as counterparts that cost hundreds of dollars less.
"
It is still true that you pay about a 50% (though usually more) premium for a Mac that isn't better (or worse) than a Windows PC.  



To fly, or not to fly: that is the question
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8617 posts, RR: 43
Reply 25, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 1926 times:

Quoting BigMac (Reply 25):
It is still true that you pay about a 50% (though usually more) premium for a Mac that isn't better (or worse) than a Windows PC.

It is still not true. The Mac gives you more OS options, comes with more software and cheaper OS upgrades, customer service that has again and again been rated excellent, long-time support and, if its a MacBook, it comes with a sturdy metal case that would drive up the price of any Windows-based laptop, too.

My MBP is over three years old. And yet, it is still fully supported, it runs the latest version of OS X beautifully, there are no driver problems and it still does every single thing I want it to do... OK, except function with my old and cheap HP laser printer, but that's because HP never published an OS X driver for it and I didn't bother with the workaround that other people with the same problem published.

So yes, while it is a walled garden and not perfect either, I have never once regretted a single penny that I spent on this laptop. Which is a lot more than I can say for every single Windows PC that I've ever owned.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6546 posts, RR: 6
Reply 26, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1894 times:
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Quoting Gingersnap (Reply 24):
. I know the price gets mentioned a lot, but an equivalent PC/laptop was always much, much cheaper in every single case. Until Apple decides to market their computing products at a reasonable price, then we shall refrain from purchasing them again.

To me this lower price get thrown out the window (no pun inteneded) by the fact that in the 3.5-4 years that i have had my MacBook Pro, i have never, not once had the computer crash or had to force a re-start. Individual programs have rarely crashed - but a complete system shutdown, - not once. An even after the single program crashed, the rest of what was running was not affected, and the program that failed was able to restart again in seconds.

In the mean time, i have gone thru 2 laptops at work (Sony and Lenovo).



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 27, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1853 times:

Quoting BigMac (Reply 25):
It is still true that you pay about a 50% (though usually more) premium for a Mac that isn't better (or worse) than a Windows PC.

…as long as you're willing to overlook half of the relevant qualities (or lack thereof) in the respective products.

You can certainly pick a small number of features from any Mac and get a PC having just those quite a bit cheaper. But it's ultimately a "you pay less, you get less" affair.

The more of the Mac's features you're trying to add to the PC, the more you approach the Mac's price as well, not rarely surpassing it or ending up without a product on the PC side at all.

If you want illustration, just look at the terminally sad attempts to mimic the MacBook Air with what Intel calls "Ultrabooks" (and even subsidizes for the manufacturers!). Almost all of them are outright horrible and near-unusable, even with all the goodwill PC-aligned journalists can muster; Hardly any even approach the MacBook Air in quality and those that do have major trouble undercutting it on price.

The truth of the matter is that Apple's prices are pretty much in line with or even below those of other manufacturers – just vis-á-vis the professional-quality products at the upper end of the PC lineups.

They leave the cheap and crappy mass segment entirely to the competition (who make little or nothing on it to the point where "crapware" they foist on their users provides their only profits in many cases).

If you're looking for that kind of thing, a PC is your only option, indeed. More and more people are just sick of that by now, and that trend is further accelerating.


User currently offlineGingersnap From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2010, 892 posts, RR: 5
Reply 28, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1820 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 27):
You can certainly pick a small number of features from any Mac and get a PC having just those quite a bit cheaper. But it's ultimately a "you pay less, you get less" affair.

The more of the Mac's features you're trying to add to the PC, the more you approach the Mac's price as well, not rarely surpassing it or ending up without a product on the PC side at all.

Well I would dispute that.

I could pay the same price for a PC laptop as I would for a Mac, and the laptop would be far and away the superior in performance for a start.
I like Apple products, but to state that an equivalent PC with the same parts would be a similar price is sheer ignorance.



Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 29, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1806 times:

Quoting Gingersnap (Reply 28):
I could pay the same price for a PC laptop as I would for a Mac, and the laptop would be far and away the superior in performance for a start.

Not that easily done, given that Apple covers the available performance envelope pretty much to the top. (Relevant detail: MacBooks generally provide full performance running on battery as well, not just when the charger is connected.)

And then you'd still miss most of the respective MacBook's other features. Once you're (mostly) done, look at the price again.

You'll be where the Mac's price is, or above.

Quoting Gingersnap (Reply 28):
I like Apple products, but to state that an equivalent PC with the same parts would be a similar price is sheer ignorance.

I'll have to give that right back to you.

Take any Mac at apple.com (even considering that all of them are outgoing models on their last legs) and try to match it – all of it, or at least as closely as possible, not just picking two or three of its base features and ignoring the rest.

CPU, GPU, display, connectivity, build quality, weight, volume, component quality, support and more all need to be matched as evenly as possible, while still maintaining the difference in pricing you're so convinced of.

No skimping on quality or quantity! No "yeah, but I don't care about that feature" excuses!

This is a lot harder in actual reality than "everybody knows".

[Edited 2012-03-23 20:00:43]

User currently offlineBigMac From Suriname, joined Nov 2003, 318 posts, RR: 10
Reply 30, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1788 times:

Earth to everyone who still think a Mac is not more expensive than a PC... Please come back to earth...  
A $800 15" PC laptop is still cheaper than a $1800 15" Mac laptop...
A $600 13" PC laptop is still cheaper than a $1200 13" Mac laptop...
And no, a PC laptop made out of plastic will not crack when you use it or the keys aren't going to fly off when you type on it (etc, etc, etc). But yes, a plastic PC laptop may creak or flex compared to a metal Mac laptop... or a Mac laptop can look better than a PC laptop...
And no, Windows 7 is not a bad operating system... It's a great operating system (just like Mac OS X).

What do most people use their PC or Mac for? It's probably work or study related (reading, word processing, emailing, accounting, etc), followed by internet browsing (including using Facebook, Youtube, etc), followed by multimedia stuff (listening to music or watching a movie, etc).
So if I want to buy a 15" Mac laptop I'll have to pay $1800 and if I want a 15" PC laptop I could pay $800 (there are cheaper 15" PC laptops as well).
And yes, an $800 Dell XPS 15" PC laptop (and even a cheaper $600 15" PC laptop) will be more than sufficient to perform the tasks I need it for (like most people).
So again, you will pay more for a Mac than a PC...
I do understand that buying any product is always a personal preference; I'm not saying people shouldn't buy a Mac because they are more expensive...



To fly, or not to fly: that is the question
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8617 posts, RR: 43
Reply 31, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1758 times:

Quoting BigMac (Reply 30):
A $800 15" PC laptop is still cheaper than a $1800 15" Mac laptop...

A $1900 15" PC laptop is more expensive than an $1800 15" Mac laptop. Either purchase can make more sense than the other and it depends entirely on the customer's needs, wishes and budget. Apple simply doesn't do cheap laptops, so if you want one, you need to go elsewhere.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 32, posted (2 years 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1737 times:

Quoting BigMac (Reply 30):
And yes, an $800 Dell XPS 15" PC laptop (and even a cheaper $600 15" PC laptop) will be more than sufficient to perform the tasks I need it for (like most people).

That is perfectly possible, and such a decision is perfectly valid. That's really not up for debate.

But then, why isn't everybody driving around in Dacias? They're pretty much the cheapest cars you can get, and they would suffice for most people's transport needs as well! You could probably get cheaper clothes as well, cheaper food, live in a cheaper flat… So why don't you?

The only thing debated here is the claim that a cheap PC and the closest Mac were completely equivalent, except for the price. And I think nobody who actually looked at both with open eyes side by side would really come to such a conclusion.

It's your decision whether the difference in features and in quality is worth the difference in sticker price for you. But that is a very different thing from the claim made above of Apple allegedly just gouging their customers on "equivalent" products.

Quoting BigMac (Reply 30):
So again, you will pay more for a Mac than a PC...

When you're content with a low-quality machine, then you can get that only as a PC, since Apple has nothing on offer in the low-quality segment.

When you're looking at the higher quality levels Apple does have on offer, the equivalent PCs there cost comparable prices to the Mac.

Macs are not more expensive per se, Apple has just chosen to keep completely out of the low-quality, low-price segment, so that PCs are all you can get if that's what you're looking for.

In the high-quality segment they're actually very competitive and in many cases the Macs are even the most affordable machines in their class, which is one of the reasons why they're increasingly taking over that segment, leaving only the low-quality and server segments to the competition and putting the squeeze on their margins (just look at the balance sheets of Dell, HP, Lenovo…).

An increasing number of users is by now coming to the conclusion that cheap sticker prices are not as great a deal over the long haul as "common wisdom" would suggest. Apple's Mac sales have consistently been growing much faster than the PC market for quite a few years by now. Why is that?

Total cost of ownership can actually be lower for a higher-priced and higher-quality machine (better longevity and reliability, longer usability until it needs to be replaced, better support, better resale value, …). And then there's user satisfaction, which is substantially higher for Macs than it is for PCs.

So in short: You pay more, you get more.

It's still your own free decision, but when you're exclusively looking at the sticker price, you may not actually be getting the best deal in the end.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8044 posts, RR: 8
Reply 33, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1675 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 3):
The transition will likely go through the MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, Mac Pro, iMac and finally the Mac mini, roughly in that order.

The more I think about it the more I can't see a reason why Apple cannot release upgraded models within a short period of time. The MBP & Air at the same time, with the iMac & mini within a fortnight. Or at the same time.

When you thin about it, how much new engineering will Apple need for the consumer ranges? And how many engineers do they have?

I don't see that much engineering needed on the mini & desktop - it is reasonable to assume that the majority of the work has been completed as Apple has had sample chips from Intel for a long time.

But maybe my optimism for a quick release of a new iMac is based on my desire to buy one.  
Quoting Gingersnap (Reply 28):
I could pay the same price for a PC laptop as I would for a Mac, and the laptop would be far and away the superior in performance for a start.

Then buy PC. Get what you want - we won't put you down for buying something else. Just don't try to put us down because we make a different decision than you do.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 34, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1666 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
The more I think about it the more I can't see a reason why Apple cannot release upgraded models within a short period of time. The MBP & Air at the same time, with the iMac & mini within a fortnight. Or at the same time.

When you thin about it, how much new engineering will Apple need for the consumer ranges? And how many engineers do they have?

Engineering is probably not the primary bottleneck indeed.

But component availability and manufacturing resources most likely are.

Each major Apple product presentation is usually followed by a major spike in initial (and often pent-up) demand, and the large sales numbers following from that don't come from thin air. They need to stagger these releases so their contract manufacturers are actually able to build enough of each product. It would be incredibly expensive and wasteful to build up gigantic capacities for such multi-launches and then to shut down most of them when demand returned to normal on all of these product lines simultaneously.

That kind of issue propagates to their suppliers as well, many of which would probably be unable to satisfy demand as well.

Intel as one of them has similar issues: Their production lines need to be ramped up in sequence, and they decide very deliberately (and likely in coordination with their main customers) which CPU models will be made available in what sequence and in what numbers to whom.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
But maybe my optimism for a quick release of a new iMac is based on my desire to buy one.

Unsurprisingly…!   


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8044 posts, RR: 8
Reply 35, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1639 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 34):
It would be incredibly expensive and wasteful to build up gigantic capacities for such multi-launches and then to shut down most of them when demand returned to normal on all of these product lines simultaneously.

I would agree if we were talking about a normal PC OEM.

Apple has certainly turned into a more aggressive company as the cash flow is built up. They have been willing to spend billions on pre-parment of components, financing increased production capacity for component suppliers, and major investments in equipment when needed. (The machining for the MacBooks and iPads is a good example of new equipment investments.)

In other words, Apple will spend the money to finance major new product releases. And so will their partners.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 36, posted (2 years 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1632 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 35):
In other words, Apple will spend the money to finance major new product releases. And so will their partners.

Sure they will, but what would be the actual advantage for them in multiple new models competing for attention in one single mega-launch when adding the logistical nightmare on top of that?

It would reach from supply through manufacturing to shipping and retail right up to customer support. One single major launch like the iPad one is already putting substantial strain on all systems.

And then there would be the massive impact at the stock market, not least when the severe trough would inevitably follow the initial launch tsunami.

I don't think it would even be doable without massive disruptions, wasting of resources and lots of very unhappy customers; And I don't see real advantages in it either.

The staggered approach maximizes market impact for each product, evens out the strain on all logistical levels and keeps (internal) disruptions to a minimum.

I can see why they'll most likely stay that course.


User currently offlinegeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 37, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1497 times:

I don't know where to start ! Macs Vs PC's ?

I wonder how many of the "PC's are just as good as Macs" crowd have ever been in an Apple Store ?

I was in the Apple Store in Indianapolis, Ind. today; between parking the car, and getting to the Apple Store, I saw about 5 new 26" iMacs on there way out to people's cars; You may think Apple products are "too high priced", and I won't even argue with you; But just don't bet any money that Apple is having any problem selling what it makes..........because you will LOSE your money in a flash !

I took my old 20" iMac in to have it "looked at" by the genius bar; thing's having some kind of problem with the display; it took the young kid about 3 minutes to hook it up to a keyboard, get into "system preferences", and get it running like new again. But hey..........even though it has served me faithfully for over 8 yrs now, it's out-dated ! I need a new machine. I stopped by my bank in Brazil and transferred 2 K into my debit account, on my way to Indy, "just in case" I decided to pick up a new machine while I was at the Apple Store; After getting the old machine taken care of, I took yet another look at the new iMacs; what the hell, it's only money, and you sure can't "take it with you".........so I decided to take a new iMac home with me; give the kid my debit card, (where I had just added 2K to, about 2 hours before), and which already had a fair amount in it already...........and the card reader won't take my card ! I have Miss A call the bank, inquire, "wassamatter?" Can't spend my $$$$$$ ! They......."oh.....our computer won't "see" that 2K until tomorrow morning !"

Did I mention, it's only a 75 mile trip from my house, to the bank, then to the Apple Store in Indianapolis; In the morning, I'm going to "plan B"........back to the bank, only this time I'll put ther 2K in my pocket ! The only bad part is.....I had intended to leave the old machine at the Fruit Store, have them load everything into the new machine, and pick both of them up tomorrow; Now, unless I want to make two more round trips, (which I definitely do not), I'll have to transfer all the files myself; (kinda like having to change your own oil....)

Hey Klaus...........are you gonna be "around" tomorrow evening ? I may get stuck ! Probably not, bu who knows ?

BTW............I never could get a firm number on how many new computers "found new homes" at the Apple Store today;
Everyone I asked seemed to think it was between 50 and a 100; You may think Macs are "high", but it sure doesn't seem to be hurting their sales any !

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1718 posts, RR: 1
Reply 38, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1481 times:

Quoting geezer (Reply 37):
I wonder how many of the "PC's are just as good as Macs" crowd have ever been in an Apple Store ?

You'd be surprised.

I went from PC to Mac and back to PC again, my wife has a small design studio (4 people all in all) and after looking carefully at some options we went the PC route.

They use SolidWorks quite a lot and that's a PC-only software, and the rest of the programs all are available either in Mac or PC so it's better to pay for a single OS than keep switching all the time.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 39, posted (2 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1429 times:

Quoting geezer (Reply 37):
Hey Klaus...........are you gonna be "around" tomorrow evening ? I may get stuck ! Probably not, bu who knows ?

From about this time tomorrow I'll be away for several hours, but before and probably for some hours after I will be around.

Quoting geezer (Reply 37):
BTW............I never could get a firm number on how many new computers "found new homes" at the Apple Store today;
Everyone I asked seemed to think it was between 50 and a 100; You may think Macs are "high", but it sure doesn't seem to be hurting their sales any !

The Apple retail stores are said to be the most profitable stores around by a substantial margin relative to their floor space. They exceed high-end jewelers and other boutiques not least by moving merchandise at a much faster pace.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 38):
You'd be surprised.

I went from PC to Mac and back to PC again, my wife has a small design studio (4 people all in all) and after looking carefully at some options we went the PC route.

They use SolidWorks quite a lot and that's a PC-only software, and the rest of the programs all are available either in Mac or PC so it's better to pay for a single OS than keep switching all the time.

It's a Windows-only software, not a PC-only one, since Windows runs on Macs as well. Other developers like Autodesk (AutoCAD) have begun explicitly supporting the use of their Windows applications in virtual machines on the Mac already, before porting them directly to the Mac platform (Autodesk has already become successful on iOS).

That doesn't automatically mean that a Mac would in every single case be the ideal platform, just that percieved impossibilities have actually shrunk dramatically. Which indeed goes to the point of many people not really being up to date on the Mac platform.


User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1718 posts, RR: 1
Reply 40, posted (2 years 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1402 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 39):
It's a Windows-only software, not a PC-only one, since Windows runs on Macs as well. Other developers like Autodesk (AutoCAD) have begun explicitly supporting the use of their Windows applications in virtual machines on the Mac already, before porting them directly to the Mac platform (Autodesk has already become successful on iOS).

That's not my point, you can also run an OS X on a PC via virtualbox. My point is not paying for an additional OS.

I still need to purchase a windows license if I want to run windows on a Mac.


User currently offlinegeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 41, posted (2 years 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1358 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 39):
The Apple retail stores are said to be the most profitable stores around by a substantial margin relative to their floor space. They exceed high-end jewelers and other boutiques not least by moving merchandise at a much faster pace.

Klaus, have you been in Indianapolis in the last week or two ? I can't believe it............you're clear in Europe, but you hit the "nail" right on the "head" !

The Apple Store in Indy is very "adjacent" to where all the "rich folks" live; the shopping mall where Apple is, has a "Nordstroms" store on one end, and a "Saks 5th Ave" on the other; everything in between is HIGH END ! In fact, Arlene and I actually peeked in Nordstroms yesterday.............the place looked like a giant, high end ice cream store on a below zero day in January ! Not a customer in sight ! The marble hall ways in the whole mall are "empty" ! Every other store in the whole damn place looked empty; right next to Nordstroms, a local Fiat Dealer had rented an open front space, which must be 3 times the sq. ft. of the Apple Store; there were three new "mini" Fiats parked inside; I asked a guy working at a kiosk nearby what kind of "traffic" the Fiat place had; he told me that in the 3 months that it's been open, he's never noticed ANYONE step inside ! That didn't surprise me; Fiats never sold squat before when they were available here, and I'll be greatly surprised if that doesn't become even worse in the near future; Car sales are really slow; have been, will be; not enough people running around with anything in their pockets;

All except for the Apple Store; ( we went back again today; didn't bother with the damned debit card today.........just took a couple of "stacks" of $100 bills; (23 in all) Looks like I'll be destined to "get by" with USB 2 for "the duration"; the 27" iMacs are still just like they were when I first saw them last Thanksgiving; (and guess who knows absolutely NOTHING about what or when Apple is going to "do" anything ? (The guys who work at the Apple Store ! ) I managed to get there a couple hours earlier today; it was even more crowded than it was yesterday. It's kinda sad really; the places where people usually spend the most bucks, are the places that are hurting the most;

It's gonna seem kinda "strange" tomorrow, (if I get time to get the new iMac out of the big box it came in) from Jaguar to Lion, from 512 MB to 5 GB of RAM........from 160 GB to a TB of HD space.........I won't know how to act. I make a lot of 18" X 24" prints. (and some larger) now I'll be able to look at the whole thing without moving the sliders around !

Your prediction about the "upgrades" will probably happen about next week ! Oh well................................

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 42, posted (2 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1340 times:

Quoting geezer (Reply 41):
Klaus, have you been in Indianapolis in the last week or two ?

Not that I know of.   

But I guess right at the moment there's still some added traffic due to the new iPad.

Quoting geezer (Reply 41):
All except for the Apple Store; ( we went back again today; didn't bother with the damned debit card today.........just took a couple of "stacks" of $100 bills; (23 in all) Looks like I'll be destined to "get by" with USB 2 for "the duration"; the 27" iMacs are still just like they were when I first saw them last Thanksgiving;
Quoting geezer (Reply 41):
Your prediction about the "upgrades" will probably happen about next week ! Oh well................................

I have no information or rumours about that. And if your priority is to get the new machine right now, you really shouldn't worry about that either. The current model is already plenty powerful and fast, and its high-speed Thunderbolt ports let you attach USB3 ports externally with an adapter anyway if you really want them (and when such adapters are available).

Quoting geezer (Reply 41):
(and guess who knows absolutely NOTHING about what or when Apple is going to "do" anything ? (The guys who work at the Apple Store ! )

They are explicitly forbidden to even comment – let alone speculate – about potential future products and they are kept in the dark about them anyway. Which is probably a sound company policy. Apple rumours are abundant on the web anyway.

Quoting geezer (Reply 41):
It's gonna seem kinda "strange" tomorrow, (if I get time to get the new iMac out of the big box it came in) from Jaguar to Lion, from 512 MB to 5 GB of RAM........from 160 GB to a TB of HD space.........I won't know how to act.

That is quite a huge step up on all fronts, indeed.

Some of the vast amounts of added performance and storage has of course been invested into usability and new features, but it should feel like a very nice upgrade.

Quoting geezer (Reply 41):
I make a lot of 18" X 24" prints. (and some larger) now I'll be able to look at the whole thing without moving the sliders around !

It's effectively a 3.6 megapixel display, so you'll be able to see a lot more details in total view or a much bigger part of a photo when displaying it 1:1. Most digital cameras still have an even higher resolution, but the 27" display is a very big step up in resolution, but also in display quality (the old iMac would have a simpler TN-type TFT if I remember correctly, the new one a more advanced IPS-type like the iPad).

It can also be much brigher than the old one, since the backlight of an LCD ages by losing brightness over the years . If you didn't need to crank up the old one to maximum brightness, you can set the new one just to the same brightness, but if the old one wasn't bright enough any more, the new one should be again.


User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 43, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1305 times:

I'm going to come along and crap all over this thread.

I've had Toshibas, Dells, Asus', and a Macbook.

Apart from the Toshiba (which was second hand and the motherboard needed replacing, other than that, worked perfectly), every single one of my laptops have worked perfectly.

My 2008 Macbook fell apart in 9 (yes, NINE) months. The screen bezel came off, the keys started falling off, the superdrive sometimes wouldn't read discs and the battery wouldn't charge.

I paid 900GBP/1000Eur/$1500 for that. Abused, you say? Ran it over with a truck, you say?

Didn't leave my bedroom once.

The Asus netbook (1215n) that i'm typing on right now has been more reliable, better built and half the price (less than, in fact).

I have an iPod, they're a great MP3 player. Until Apple lower their prices (or raise their craftsmanship) I won't be buying a Mac, which is a shame because OSX as an OS is awesome.


User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2915 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1303 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 43):
My 2008 Macbook fell apart in 9 (yes, NINE) months. The screen bezel came off, the keys started falling off, the superdrive sometimes wouldn't read discs and the battery wouldn't charge.

I've never heard of this. If what you say is true, you could have taken it to the Apple store and they would have likely replaced it.

My MacBook has been in perfect working order through four years of very heavy use. A friend of mine bought a Compaq (he decided to be cheap) and it died in 4 months. Compaq sent him another, and that one died in about 9 months. He went out and bought a MacBook...



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8617 posts, RR: 43
Reply 45, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1287 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 43):
My 2008 Macbook fell apart in 9 (yes, NINE) months.

Hadn't the EU-wide 2-year warranty gone into effect by then? In any case, Apple would probably have agreed that the failure wasn't acceptable - my better half bought her white MacBook some four to five years ago and the specialised Apple retailer (they're called Gravis) replaced a sightly cracked bottom case as well as a broken hard disk at no charge quite some time after the purchase.

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 43):
Until Apple lower their prices (or raise their craftsmanship) I won't be buying a Mac, which is a shame because OSX as an OS is awesome.

My MacBook Pro, 38 months old, has been sat on (or something similar that managed to dent one of its corners), I've crammed it into already full suitcases and backpacks more times than I can mention, recently it somehow acquired a new dent right by the battery check button, when it's in my wheeled suitcase it bounces over cobblestones and kerbs... and yet, there are no cracks, no failures, no niggles, nothing. Even the battery is at 70% capacity after 858 load cycles so far. If you're not trolling just to "crap all over this thread", you got a defective unit and should have taken it in for a warranty repair.

[Edited 2012-03-28 14:08:10]


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 46, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1263 times:

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 44):
I've never heard of this. If what you say is true, you could have taken it to the Apple store and they would have likely replaced it.

It is, 100% - no word of a lie. I didn't realise at the time I could have had it replaced, I was only 16 at the time and wasn't so savvy on things like that.

Quoting aloges (Reply 45):
Hadn't the EU-wide 2-year warranty gone into effect by then? In any case, Apple would probably have agreed that the failure wasn't acceptable - my better half bought her white MacBook some four to five years ago and the specialised Apple retailer (they're called Gravis) replaced a sightly cracked bottom case as well as a broken hard disk at no charge quite some time after the purchase.

Not sure - see above. The build quality was shockingly bad on it and I'd spent so much on it that I didn't want to tell my dad it'd broken in case he thought I'd done it 
Quoting aloges (Reply 45):
My MacBook Pro, 38 months old, has been sat on (or something similar that managed to dent one of its corners), I've crammed it into already full suitcases and backpacks more times than I can mention, recently it somehow acquired a new dent right by the battery check button, when it's in my wheeled suitcase it bounces over cobblestones and kerbs... and yet, there are no cracks, no failures, no niggles, nothing. Even the battery is at 70% capacity after 858 load cycles so far. If you're not trolling just to "crap all over this thread", you got a defective unit and should have taken it in for a warranty repair.

Not a troll, not at all - not my style. I feel sort of short changed now that I sold it for a mere pittance in less than 12 months after buying.

I might reconsider when my financial situation is better (I'm a student) as I did like the operating system. I do want an iMac but if I had 1000GBP, I wouldn't be sat here using a 300GBP netbook  


User currently offlineGingersnap From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2010, 892 posts, RR: 5
Reply 47, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1261 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 33):
Then buy PC. Get what you want - we won't put you down for buying something else. Just don't try to put us down because we make a different decision than you do.

As I stated, I have purchased a number of different Apple products. I've had various iPods, iPhones and iPads. I am not an Apple hater by any means at all. My iPhone that I use right now has never let me down, and it's a brilliant piece of kit and I wouldn't change it for the world (no matter how much my close friends tell me Android is better).

Just as far as Macbooks go, whilst I find them to look stylish and appear to be well built....I believe them to be overpriced and I can get a Windows-based laptop for much less that will perform just as well.

This isn't me hating on Apple as I say, and I may drop the pennies on purchasing another Macbook if I find one to be reasonably priced compared to windows based laptops of a similar spec.



Flown on: A306 A319/20/21 A332 B732/3/4/5/7/8 B742/4 B752 B762/3 B772/W C152 E195 F70/100 MD-82 Q400
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 48, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1255 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 43):
My 2008 Macbook fell apart in 9 (yes, NINE) months. The screen bezel came off, the keys started falling off, the superdrive sometimes wouldn't read discs and the battery wouldn't charge.

I paid 900GBP/1000Eur/$1500 for that. Abused, you say? Ran it over with a truck, you say?

No, I'd say it's a regular warranty issue. And a "lemon" of a machine very uncharacteristic for Apple if indeed there was no abusive treatment.

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 46):
It is, 100% - no word of a lie. I didn't realise at the time I could have had it replaced, I was only 16 at the time and wasn't so savvy on things like that.

Quite strange that they would have billed you for it in any case – the production date of the machine is in their database. That it's under warranty should have been the first thing they would have noticed, since that is among the first things they usually check.

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 46):
Not sure - see above. The build quality was shockingly bad on it and I'd spent so much on it that I didn't want to tell my dad it'd broken in case he thought I'd done it

Did you actually buy it from Apple directly or from a less reliable source? I've never, ever had any experience even remotely close to that with any Apple device (and I've bought a few, both Macs and mobile devices).

All of them were pristine and perfectly reliable (with one minor defect promptly fixed on warranty in one Mac).

I wouldn't be surprised if it actually was a used and pre-damaged machine. That would also explain why it wouldn't have been covered by the warranty any more.

It's not entirely impossible that you did in fact just get a particularly rare "lemon" and then on top of that encountered an incompetent service person at the Apple Store who failed to check your warranty status (was it an actual Apple Store?). But none of that is remotely representative for (or even just consistent with) build or service quality at Apple.


User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 49, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1249 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 48):
Did you actually buy it from Apple directly or from a less reliable source? I've never, ever had any experience even remotely close to that with any Apple device (and I've bought a few, both Macs and mobile devices).
Quoting Klaus (Reply 48):
I wouldn't be surprised if it actually was a used and pre-damaged machine. That would also explain why it wouldn't have been covered by the warranty any more.

I got it from www.apple.com/uk, it was brand new. I think it was just a dud - I didn't try to get it repaired because they'd shafted me on iPod repairs before. Nothing ventured...


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 50, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1250 times:

Quoting Gingersnap (Reply 47):
Just as far as Macbooks go, whilst I find them to look stylish and appear to be well built....I believe them to be overpriced and I can get a Windows-based laptop for much less that will perform just as well.

You can either get a much cheaper or a comparable machine, not both in one.

There's no problem in making either decision as such, but that's indeed the decision. If the additional features don't matter to you, go ahead and get the cheaper PC. No problem.

The remaining differences just remain there, whether you care about them or not. If you don't, you can save money. If you do, however, you'll want to upgrade either way, and then the Mac will usually not be much more expensive than the fully comparable PC (if at all).


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 51, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1247 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 49):
I got it from www.apple.com/uk, it was brand new. I think it was just a dud - I didn't try to get it repaired because they'd shafted me on iPod repairs before.

How so?

Wait – did you get the MacBook repaired at all or not?


User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 52, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1249 times:

Nope - I ebayed it. Wish I hadn't now, it was a good little laptop.

I had an iPod that was faulty through manufacturing error and they refused point blank to replace or repair it without a hefty fee while it was still in the warranty (just).


User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21416 posts, RR: 60
Reply 53, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1249 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 43):
My 2008 Macbook fell apart in 9 (yes, NINE) months. The screen bezel came off, the keys started falling off, the superdrive sometimes wouldn't read discs and the battery wouldn't charge.

All of these items were easily replaceable by Apple and would have been free to you had you attempted.

iPod repairs are different, because they will claim it was from abuse if there are signs of abuse. And considering you are 16 and you had certain problems with your MBP that sound like the result of abuse, something tells me that the iPod also had obvious signs of abuse.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 51):
Wait – did you get the MacBook repaired at all or not?

No. It's obvious he just thought "gee, I paid a lot for this computer and it broke in less than a year and even though it has a 1 year warranty, I'm not going to look into getting it fixed."

All computer brands break. Apples too. Less than other brands (by all industry measures) but still more than zero. And laptops break more often.

Apple is very good about replacing a lemon. They will fix a machine that isn't a lemon, but will replace a lemon, assuming it's under warranty. I had my iBook G4 replaced 33 months into the 3-year AppleCare. The Apple Store replaced it after Apple failed to fix it right the first time (graphic chip issue).



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePITingres From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1085 posts, RR: 13
Reply 54, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1247 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 43):
My 2008 Macbook fell apart in 9 (yes, NINE) months. The screen bezel came off, the keys started falling off, the superdrive sometimes wouldn't read discs and the battery wouldn't charge.

And as long as we're telling single experience anecdotes, the Powerbook G3 Lombard (Bronze Keyboard) laptop that my wife bought me for Father's Day 1998 is still going strong. I stopped using it regularly in 2003, when it was replaced by a TiBook, but it still works fine. (The screen backlight is pretty dim these days.)

It's unfortunate that you had an unpleasant experience, but the *only* way to evaluate product quality is with a statistical analysis over a statistically valid sample. Individual experiences and anecdotes are useless, whether they are good or bad.

Now, as for the customer service (or lack of same) that you received vis-a-vis the iPod, sounds like something went badly wrong there.

Quoting Gingersnap (Reply 47):
Just as far as Macbooks go, whilst I find them to look stylish and appear to be well built....I believe them to be overpriced and I can get a Windows-based laptop for much less that will perform just as well.

I guess that depends on whether you can tolerate Windows. I can't, and I'll freely admit that I am a minority. Still, for me, the only way a Windows machine can "perform as well" as a Mac or Linux box is for it to NOT be a Windows machine. (I even managed to totally baffle the MS internal helpdesk, doing an ordinary vanilla OS upgrade, during my penitential year. I'm just not meant to run Winders, I don't think the way it does.)

Edited to add: just in case someone imagines that I carried the G3 around without using it, the A S comma and period keys are entirely illegible (worn thru the paint), and about 4 other keys are just barely hanging in there. I used that thing almost every day as a consultant for just shy of 5 years.

[Edited 2012-03-28 18:03:15]


Fly, you fools! Fly!
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21416 posts, RR: 60
Reply 55, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1245 times:

Quoting PITingres (Reply 54):
Now, as for the customer service (or lack of same) that you received vis-a-vis the iPod, sounds like something went badly wrong there.

As in "sir, it appears as if you have dropped this iPod repeatedly."
"No I didn't."

Getting portable electronics repaired under warranty is hard if there are signs of damage, even if the failure is not related. I'm worried that my current MBP 13" will be questioned should it ever break because of a dent on one corner from when it dropped. These unibody cases may be strong, but they dent noticeably and don't have any elasticity...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8617 posts, RR: 43
Reply 56, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1242 times:

Quoting PITingres (Reply 54):
I am a minority.
...
I'm just not meant to run Winders, I don't think the way it does.)

Lord help us if thinking unlike Windows makes you a minority...

SCNR  



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 57, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1239 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 52):
I had an iPod that was faulty through manufacturing error and they refused point blank to replace or repair it without a hefty fee while it was still in the warranty (just).

How did you know it was a manufacturing error? That can be somewhat difficulthard to determine even with technical insight.

What was the problem?

Quoting PITingres (Reply 54):
And as long as we're telling single experience anecdotes, the Powerbook G3 Lombard (Bronze Keyboard) laptop that my wife bought me for Father's Day 1998 is still going strong.

All Macs I've ever bought (including the repaired one) are still in perfect working order (apart from depleted batteries in some cases, of course).

Even my nontrivial sample size can't exclude the possibility of occasional lemons, but I've yet to get one (or know of one among friends and family).


User currently offlinegeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 58, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1220 times:

[quote=Klaus,reply=42]
It's effectively a 3.6 megapixel display, so you'll be able to see a lot more details in total view or a much bigger part of a photo when displaying it 1:1. Most digital cameras still have an even higher resolution, but the 27" display is a very big step up in resolution, but also in display quality (the old iMac would have a simpler TN-type TFT if I remember correctly, the new one a more advanced IPS-type like the iPad).

It can also be much brigher than the old one, since the backlight of an LCD ages by losing brightness over the years . If you didn't need to crank up the old one to maximum brightness, you can set the new one just to the same brightness, but if the old one wasn't bright enough any more, the new one should be again.

Klaus......This old iMac is just over 8 yrs old, and I can't see that it has lost one iota of it's brightness or sharpness either; actually, that's one of the main reasons I have always been so big on Macs........their displays are gorgeous ! Very handy to have when you're working with photographs all the time.

[quote=Klaus,reply=42]That is quite a huge step up on all fronts, indeed.

Some of the vast amounts of added performance and storage has of course been invested into usability and new features, but it should feel like a very nice upgrade.



Yeah, I suppose it will be nice to have some of the new features, but I'm not looking forward to learning to use Lion; when I get used to something, and it does what I want it to do, I just hate to switch. We had to take my fiance' to one of the hospitals in Terre Haute today to have blood drawn for her first visit to her Doctor tomorrow, after a 2 week stay in the hospital, so I still haven't had a chance to get the new machine out of the box yet; I did notice it has a "mini" cordless key board, and a cordless mouse; those two items will doubtless stay in the box; I just bought a new corded key board for the old iMac about 4r months ago, and I prefer it to having to change batteries every time I turn around; ditto for the cordless mouse; I have been using a cheap Logitech mouse with a scroll-wheel, and I like the thing better than the Mac mouse; again, I despise changing batteries ! I spilled coffee on the key board that came with the iMac about 4 months back, and I like this new keyboard better in that the keys fit very snug in their holes, so it doesn't get near as much dirt and debris under the keys, but I'm still only about 1/3 of the way used to typing with it so far.

I can't believe how nice the kid at the Apple Store has the old iMac working ! It had suddenly developed an "issue" where the cursor would "jiggle" back and forth rapidly, then the whole display would turn to a grid of lines; he said it was some sort of a software issue, and it only required 5 minutes at the "genius bar" to get it completely straightened out.....(at no cost I might add ! ) (No wonder so many people love the "Fruit Store" ! )

Something else I wanted to ask you that I don't quite understand..........the new 27" has 4 GB of RAM, and 1GB of ( a bunch of letters, which I never remember more than 5 minutes  what IS that 1 GB of memory anyway ? Also, the browser you mentioned.......i Cab........I'm not familiar with it; where do I get it to give it a try ?

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 59, posted (2 years 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1198 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 53):
Pod repairs are different, because they will claim it was from abuse if there are signs of abuse. And considering you are 16 and you had certain problems with your MBP that sound like the result of abuse, something tells me that the iPod also had obvious signs of abuse.

  I wrote before in a reply that It didn't leave my bedroom. How could it have been abused? It literally did not leave my desk, like a desktop. It may as well have been glued to to the damn desk, that's how little it moved.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 57):
How did you know it was a manufacturing error? That can be somewhat difficulthard to determine even with technical insight.

Hard disc failure after 6 weeks (it was an iPod mini 2nd Gen). I know they're sensitive but again, with it being so expensive, I didn't take it anywhere - it stayed in the house.


User currently offlinebhill From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 925 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 1146 times:

I would like to know what bug would make him forklift his whole computing infrastructure....must have been some bug. I have been using Win7 x64 for years..since RTM. And the only issue I had with a system crash was my own doing...on purpose...


Carpe Pices
User currently offlinegeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 61, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1109 times:

Klaus............

I "assumed" I would find a USB cable or a fire wire cable "lying around" the house, but I haven't; tried to buy one at Best Buy in Terre Haute; I don't think they would know a firewire cable if they had one tied around their necks !

I need to get much of what's in the old iMac into the new one; is a fire wire cable an option ? I spent a few minutes looking at the little book that came with the keyboard; I'll probably need to read it more thoroughly........ I bought "Apple Care", so if I absolutely must call Apple, at least it's paid for.

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 62, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 1076 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 59):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 57):
How did you know it was a manufacturing error? That can be somewhat difficulthard to determine even with technical insight.

Hard disc failure after 6 weeks (it was an iPod mini 2nd Gen). I know they're sensitive but again, with it being so expensive, I didn't take it anywhere - it stayed in the house.

Right, I remember us talking about this earlier. Most likely it wasn't a manufacturing defect, but a mechanical shock from moving around at the wrong time.

In my view they should never have advertised harddisk-based iPods for mobile use, since even with movement sensors and other safety features it is effectively a matter of chance whether a movement (like suddenly setting it down on a hard surface while it's playing) can damage the harddisk. Such players need to be handled like raw eggs – only flash-based players are really rugged and hard to damage, but it was negligent by Apple and other manufacturers not to impose that knowledge on their users.

Quoting geezer (Reply 58):
Something else I wanted to ask you that I don't quite understand..........the new 27" has 4 GB of RAM, and 1GB of ( a bunch of letters, which I never remember more than 5 minutes  what IS that 1 GB of memory anyway ?

Ah, okay. Only the 4GB are actual CPU RAM for the operating system and applications to "live in".

The other 1GB is GDDR RAM for the graphics processor. It is used for the display image and for window and other graphics element background storage. Particularly when working with many large windows and when connecting additional external displays (the current 27" iMacs support up to two more), this RAM will be put to good use.

4GB of main RAM is not very generous by todays' standards, however. If you should encounter the "beach ball" busy cursor more frequently, it can be because RAM is filled up by your applications and the OS needs to swap data to disk. RAM can be upgraded pretty easily after the fact (there's an access panel on the lower edge of the iMac), and you can get good prices for iMac-certified RAM with warranty from reputable sources (which you should insist on getting).

Both the much higher screen resolution and the newer OS and applications will use more RAM than you'll be used to on your old machine, so this might become an issue. It's easily remedied in that case, however. An iMac 27" can support up to 16GB of RAM (depending on the model, up to 32GB inofficially).

Quoting geezer (Reply 58):
Also, the browser you mentioned.......i Cab........I'm not familiar with it; where do I get it to give it a try ?

On the Mac it's a shareware application:
iCab - Internet Taxi for the Mac
I like it for its very extended customization capabilities (including custom CSS and JavaScript for specific sites), but with more regular needs you might not find it too different from the likes of Safari, Chrome or Firefox.

On iOS for iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad it is another matter. There it is an excellent replacement for Safari paticularly with its fullscreen mode and many other additional features over Safari:
iCab Mobile

Quoting geezer (Reply 58):
Yeah, I suppose it will be nice to have some of the new features, but I'm not looking forward to learning to use Lion; when I get used to something, and it does what I want it to do, I just hate to switch.

Understandable, but the learning curve should not be all too steep. Mac OS X has moved on quite a bit, but you'll find most things improved, but still recognizable.

Quoting geezer (Reply 61):
I need to get much of what's in the old iMac into the new one; is a fire wire cable an option ?

Yes. Be sure to get a FireWire 800 cable, though (the one with the rectangular plugs on both ends), not the older FireWire 400 cables which may be the only ones non-Apple dealers may even know of. (This adapter cable shows both different connectors side by side: Firewire Cable, 6-Pin 400 to 9-Pin 800 - ProCable - RadTech Products)

You can plug it into both iMacs and use it in one of several ways:

• Start up your old iMac in target mode by holding the "T" key while booting it up. It will then present itself simply as an external FireWire harddisk to the other iMac.

• Boot up both iMacs normally, then go into the Network System preference on both. You can then configure FireWire on both iMacs just like an ethernet networking port (it is effectively the same as plugging both iMacs into your wired network router with regular ethernet cables).

• Use Apple's Migration Assistant which will use the FireWire connection automatically:
Mac OS X v10.6: How to use Migration Assistant to transfer files from another Mac

You can also just use an ethernet cable or even WiFi, so the FireWire cable is not really the only way.

I personally have made my last move by restoring a current Time Machine backup of my previous PowerMac to my new iMac, which is another possibility once you've got that kind of backup, but in your case the Migration Assistant via FireWire or Ethernet may be the most practical way.

When you're on the new machine, I urge you to indeed keep an external disk connected to the iMac and letting Time Machine do regular backups automatically in the background. You can even use alternating backup disks and keep one of them in an external safe place all the time. It's so easy to use that the added safety net of a current backup is really the proverbial low-hanging fruit – and it can be a true life-saver when the main harddisk should suffer a major defect, which is absolutely possible, if not very unlikely. Better safe than sorry.

Quoting geezer (Reply 61):
I spent a few minutes looking at the little book that came with the keyboard; I'll probably need to read it more thoroughly........ I bought "Apple Care", so if I absolutely must call Apple, at least it's paid for.

That may be also be a good idea, particularly when you run into any difficulties on the way. They're usually pretty good.


User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 63, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1048 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 62):
Right, I remember us talking about this earlier. Most likely it wasn't a manufacturing defect, but a mechanical shock from moving around at the wrong time.

In my view they should never have advertised harddisk-based iPods for mobile use, since even with movement sensors and other safety features it is effectively a matter of chance whether a movement (like suddenly setting it down on a hard surface while it's playing) can damage the harddisk. Such players need to be handled like raw eggs – only flash-based players are really rugged and hard to damage, but it was negligent by Apple and other manufacturers not to impose that knowledge on their users.

Indeed. Bad idea, even though I loved the Mini (I had several of them, although 2 were stolen from me...) the hard disc was a bad idea. I have an 8GB 4th Gen Touch now - much better and I can throw it about a little more without fear of it breaking. I just put it in my backpack and not have to worry about it dying on me through walking.

I would like a Mac again (The Macbook Pro looks quite nice but very expensive, as does the iMac). I've been Windows all my life, but the time I did use OSX I did really like it, and I love my iPod as well.


User currently offlinemmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 9
Reply 64, posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 1042 times:

While i have all you guys together...

Should I build a hackintosh!?



ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 65, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1041 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 63):
Indeed. Bad idea, even though I loved the Mini (I had several of them, although 2 were stolen from me...) the hard disc was a bad idea. I have an 8GB 4th Gen Touch now - much better and I can throw it about a little more without fear of it breaking. I just put it in my backpack and not have to worry about it dying on me through walking.

Yes, my first iPod was the first nano for that very reason.

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 63):
I would like a Mac again (The Macbook Pro looks quite nice but very expensive, as does the iMac). I've been Windows all my life, but the time I did use OSX I did really like it, and I love my iPod as well.

Well, I presume you're not too old yet to make any new experiences.   

Let me just say that what you've told us about your MacBook is very uncommon. Generally the quality level and reliability of Macs is excellent.

Quoting mmedford (Reply 64):
While i have all you guys together...

Should I build a hackintosh!?

Only if you see building it as a hobby by itself (and of course, strictly speaking it's in violation of the EULA to run Mac OS on non-Apple hardware).

In the end you won't really have a Mac, you will have to re-patch every new system update, you won't be able to use Apple's support and whether Mac applications run properly on a hacked-toghether machine will remain dicey.

Much of the appeal of a Mac comes from the custom-designed hardware, the operating system and software working in very tight integration with that hardware, the support and the overall level of quality and reliability.

You would have none of that, with the sole exception of the OS itself (which also might run unreliably when hacked).

Even saving money on a "Hackintosh" is not as easy as it may look at first glance (when your own time is worth anything, you'll definitely be cheaper with a proper Mac anyway).


User currently offlinemmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 9
Reply 66, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1036 times:

Then Apple needs to hurry up and release an E5 based Mac Pro soon!


ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 67, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1032 times:

Quoting mmedford (Reply 66):
Then Apple needs to hurry up and release an E5 based Mac Pro soon!


I'm pretty sure they will, but they might want to get the new MacBooks and iMacs rolling before that.


User currently offlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 2915 posts, RR: 1
Reply 68, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1021 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 67):
MacBooks

Hopefully, yes. They say next month; the mill also says that they have already begun production. Ivy Bridge is going top be great.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 6639 posts, RR: 3
Reply 69, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1016 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 45):
Even the battery is at 70% capacity after 858 load cycles so far.

Where do I go to find this info?


User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21416 posts, RR: 60
Reply 70, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1004 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 63):
Indeed. Bad idea, even though I loved the Mini (I had several of them, although 2 were stolen from me...) the hard disc was a bad idea. I have an 8GB 4th Gen Touch now - much better and I can throw it about a little more without fear of it breaking. I just put it in my backpack and not have to worry about it dying on me through walking.

I would like a Mac again (The Macbook Pro looks quite nice but very expensive, as does the iMac). I've been Windows all my life, but the time I did use OSX I did really like it, and I love my iPod as well.

At least not for jogging.

Anyway, I have no moving parts in any mobile products now, except for the fans in the MacBook Pro that kick on when some Flash app goes nuts, or the Finder window is left open with "calculate all sizes" ticked off, as that seems to make the Finder go 100% on one processor (obviously a bug in OS X, but been around all the way through 10.6.8). Oh, and the DVD writer, which will scrape any disk if you even slightly move the machine while burning, and will scrape a disk if you lift the computer up by the left side while playing. Unibody still can't protect a thin DVD burner from stress...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinegeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 71, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 932 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 62):
Quoting geezer (Reply 61):
I need to get much of what's in the old iMac into the new one; is a fire wire cable an option ?

Yes. Be sure to get a FireWire 800 cable, though (the one with the rectangular plugs on both ends), not the older FireWire 400 cables which may be the only ones non-Apple dealers may even know of. (This adapter cable shows both different connectors side by side: Firewire Cable, 6-Pin 400 to 9-Pin 800 - ProCable - RadTech Products)

Klaus; Thank you so much for all the information ! I'm going to check into getting a fire wire 800 cable online.

I may even stick another 4 GB of RAM into the thing; right now I'm not running anything that needs a lot of ram, but that may change before too long.

My time is very limited just now, as my fiance', Arlene just got out of the hospital a few days ago, and I will be driving her to her Doctor's appointments quite a bit in the near future. And now that warm weather is finally here, I need to get busy outside; I'm going to build a two-car extension onto my garage to keep my P/U truck out of the hot sun; also, I just bought Arlene an almost new Nissan Cube, and as we live on a gravel road, I wash the thing one day, and it's covered with dirt the next day ! I want to be able to park it inside to cut my car washing to a minimum !

I have about a dozen logs that I need to start sawing into lumber for building the garage, and I'll probably need to cut another dozen or so trees to get enough lumber to do everything I want to do. It all takes time, and it seems like the more jobs I get lined up to do, the less time I can find to do them.

Thanks again for the help !

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 72, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 864 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 70):
or the Finder window is left open with "calculate all sizes" ticked off, as that seems to make the Finder go 100% on one processor (obviously a bug in OS X, but been around all the way through 10.6.8).

No, it's not a bug, it's just the option doing the work it's supposed to be doing.

The system will then have to climb down into all sub-folders to count the folders and files and accumulate their internal (net) and external (gross) sizes. When looking at folders which contain huge numbers of sub-folders and files this can take quite a while, particularly on mechanical harddisks where this involves a huge number of head movements.

If changes are made to sub-folders while the aggregate view is still open, the Finder will have to update file and folder counts and aggregate sizes live, so activity will remain high in that case.

This is why it is advisable to keep the option disabled for folders with lots of data in them, at least most of the time.

With "smaller" folders it doesn't take a lot of work to keep the information updated, but it can still slow the machine down a bit.

Quoting geezer (Reply 71):
Klaus; Thank you so much for all the information !

You're welcome!

Quoting geezer (Reply 71):
My time is very limited just now, as my fiance', Arlene just got out of the hospital a few days ago, and I will be driving her to her Doctor's appointments quite a bit in the near future. And now that warm weather is finally here, I need to get busy outside; I'm going to build a two-car extension onto my garage to keep my P/U truck out of the hot sun; also, I just bought Arlene an almost new Nissan Cube, and as we live on a gravel road, I wash the thing one day, and it's covered with dirt the next day ! I want to be able to park it inside to cut my car washing to a minimum !

Well, then I wish you successful completion of the tasks you've planned, but above all I wish you and particularly your fiancée all the best with regards to your health!  


User currently offlinegeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 73, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 848 times:

Klaus;

I just looked for fire wire 800 cables on eBay; they have TONS of them ! all sizes, all different pin config. and so on;

do you know if my old iMac has a fire wire 800 port; I'm guessing not; I don't think it was even out back then; so.......do I buy a 9 pin to 6 pin cable, FW 800 t0 400 or what ? I can't believe they are so cheap ! I haven't looked on Amazon yet; that's usually where I buy most stuff like this.

Thanks again !

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21353 posts, RR: 54
Reply 74, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 848 times:

Quoting geezer (Reply 73):
do you know if my old iMac has a fire wire 800 port; I'm guessing not; I don't think it was even out back then; so.......do I buy a 9 pin to 6 pin cable, FW 800 t0 400 or what ? I can't believe they are so cheap ! I haven't looked on Amazon yet; that's usually where I buy most stuff like this.

Just look at the socket. If it's more flattened and has one end rounded or wedge-shaped, it's FireWire 400 (6-pin).

If it's simply rectangular (almost square) with a notch in one of its sides, it's FireWire 800 (9-pin). Your new iMac has one of those.

If the old one has the same, you need a straight 9-pin-to-9-pin FireWire-800-to-800 cable.

If the old one has the other socket, you need a 6-pin-to-9-pin FireWire-400-to-800 adapter cable.

(Apple has never used the 4-pin connector some japanese cameras and PC laptops have.)

You can also look at the link I've given above for comparison.


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