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Are There Any 'Good' Paedophiles?  
User currently offlinevegetables2001 From UK - England, joined Mar 2012, 93 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 2734 times:

Got to word this carefully - bear with me...

Clearly someone who molests children is one of the worst sort of criminal, however, if a paedophile is what I assume it is - someone being born sexually attracted to children - is there any evidence that there people out there who are attracted to children but do not act on these urges and are effectively celibate all their life? Paedophillia being what it is I assume if you were sexually attracted to children you would keep it very quiet indeed.

Has there been any sort of studies?


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50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1086 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2724 times:

I am sure there are many people who have had thoughts but have never acted on them. I am also sure that there are many people who have pictures or videos of children but have never acted on whatever it is that turns them on.

But to answer your question. The only good pedo is a dead one.



I can drive faster than you
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2666 times:

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 1):
The only good pedo is a dead one.

Even if they never live it out?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offline9MMPQ From Netherlands, joined Nov 2011, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2627 times:

Pedophilia & pedophiles can never be anything else then an extremely bad thing. The very idea of viewing children in a sexual way is wrong. People who do not act on such feelings aren't much better then those who do.

I frankly doubt there are many people out there who have such steady feelings & don't act on them. Every case which seems to turn up involves people who already have had some kind of psychological issue which eventually leads them to acting out. I'd imagine those not yet acting on it are more then likely to give into it eventually.

I get you're looking for research data but your choice for a thread title is very poor to say the least.

Quoting aloges (Reply 2):
Even if they never live it out?

Absolutely, we have some crazies who apparently have never lived it out either yet are talking about the benefits all would gain from a sexual relationship. A dangerous inspiration to others closer to that edge. Acting on it or not you'd better believe i would keep such people well away from my child.



I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 42
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2599 times:

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 3):
Acting on it or not you'd better believe i would keep such people well away from my child.

Yes, of course, but you wouldn't want them dead, would you? If they can't help thinking of the crime, but do not commit it, there's nothing to sentence them for.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5608 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2579 times:

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 3):
Pedophilia & pedophiles can never be anything else then an extremely bad thing. The very idea of viewing children in a sexual way is wrong. People who do not act on such feelings aren't much better then those who do.

That is wrong on its face. Everyone is capable of terrible things and many, many people fantasize about doing terrible things but the vast majority of people who have those thoughts do not do those things. And those people are without any doubt "better" than those who do.

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 3):
I frankly doubt there are many people out there who have such steady feelings & don't act on them.

Ever seen anime? Millions of people, primarily men very much see it, read it, enjoy it and a lot of it has elements that sexualizes young prepubescent & pubescent girls .

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 3):
Every case which seems to turn up involves people who already have had some kind of psychological issue which eventually leads them to acting out. I'd imagine those not yet acting on it are more then likely to give into it eventually.

One does not mean the other. That one has acted out on their thoughts does not mean that those that have had those thoughts will too. I do understand that it does make someone "more likely" to be able to something but again it doesn't necessarily mean they will.

What have you thought of doing, fantasized doing that you didn't do? Some people dream of killing the people they work with but most people don't do it. With all the school rage/killing stuff going on here I can only look back and think of the times that I planned to extract my revenge on some of the kids that were very mean to me in school. I did not however do so. I knew better. Doesn't mean I didn't really want to do bad things to them.

Tugg

[Edited 2012-03-23 16:43:37]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinekiwiinoz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2493 times:

I have often pondered this question. The reason I think about it a lot is because as a society, we don't seem to be able to address the issue very well, and our vulnerable children suffer for it. As a parent it horrifies me. There must be a better way.

My opinion is that pedophilia is a sexuality, so like hetrosexuality or homosexuality it is not a choice. This makes sense, (why on earth would anyone choose to become something so reviled?).

However, once a pedophile understands their situation, they then have an awareness. Acting out on their sexuality has a far more extreme negative effect on their victim than the positive effect of satisfying their sexual urge. So therefore they must make a choice. Are they selfish and act on it anyway, or rise above it and choose the life of celibacy?

With this in mind, (keeping in mind my view on pedophilia being a sexuality), then I think the celibate pedophile IS good. Should perhaps even be publically acknowledged for their stance.

We could then ask ourselves as a society, how can we then "convert" more pedophiles from "active" to "celibate", (or better yet, catch them before they even make the choice). Can we implement a strategy that positively enforces passive/celibate pedophile behaviour? With willing participants and a supportive society, I believe it is possible.


User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 6):

Great post, and 100% agree. Human sexuality, particularly in this department is a really tough subject that understandably very few want to talk about, I commend the OP's bravery in starting the thread.


User currently offline9MMPQ From Netherlands, joined Nov 2011, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2403 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 5):
Everyone is capable of terrible things and many, many people fantasize about doing terrible things but the vast majority of people who have those thoughts do not do those things.

I'm certainly not denying we're all capable of thinking & doing terrible things but for most of us those are passing thoughts. See it as a way to blow off steam, vent some anger & eventually be done with it. Then again some people are so overtaken by their anger and/or frustrations that eventually it becomes all they are dealing with, resulting in examples you've given. To me that is what this about, not just the intermittent idea but having that in your mind every time something with sexuality comes up.

A pedophile has that sexually fixed obsession. Men & women do not enter into their minds whenever sexuality comes up, children are the focus. I'd imagine living with those constant feelings & ideas would result eventually in acting out.

Quoting tugger (Reply 5):
Ever seen anime? Millions of people, primarily men very much see it, read it, enjoy it and a lot of it has elements that sexualizes young prepubescent & pubescent girls .

Doesn't do it for me but i've seen examples. I would then wonder if a similar fixation applies, hence my use of the words steady feelings in my post 3, perhaps i should have said constant or the only feelings. Would anime be the only thing that gets them going sexually & would that translate to their real world feelings to children only or is watching it just that & in the real world they would have normal adult sexual relationships ? That might well be an interesting query for the OP.



I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
User currently offlinevegetables2001 From UK - England, joined Mar 2012, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2374 times:

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 3):
Pedophilia & pedophiles can never be anything else then an extremely bad thing. The very idea of viewing children in a sexual way is wrong. People who do not act on such feelings aren't much better then those who do.

Of course paedophillia is wrong, however, I think you may be being a little harsh about people who don't act on it, surely if your hot-wired to your sexuality it's not something you have active control over, it must be a right ball-ache. I doubt whether there would be many homosexuals in the world if you could choose who you find sexually attractive.



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User currently offlineTransIsland From Bahamas, joined Mar 2004, 2046 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2293 times:

I am going to stay away from the good/bad thing, and shan't comment on all the judgmental statements made above. To answer your question:

Quoting vegetables2001 (Thread starter):
is there any evidence that there people out there who are attracted to children but do not act on these urges and are effectively celibate all their life?

Yes, there are, as has been documented in a number of articles in scholarly, peer-reviewed journal. Current research suggests that reaching out to such persons before they become child molesters may in fact be the only effective way to prevent CSA, as educational approaches have had minimal impact only, and Sex Offenders Registers, by nature, register sex offenders after they've offended. A pilot project was started in Berlin, Germany (IIRC), reaching out to and trying to help people who have certain desires but would rather not act on them.



I'm an aviation expert. I have Sky Juice for breakfast.
User currently offlinekiwiinoz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2279 times:

Ok, here's an even more extreme curve ball

What if we were to develop a victimless way for Pedos to act out on their desires. Some kind of simulated virtual reality technology or something?

I don't know how the psychology works, but if evidence would indicate that this would reduce the incidence of assaulting actual children I would think its worth a go


User currently offlinevegetables2001 From UK - England, joined Mar 2012, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2265 times:

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 11):
What if we were to develop a victimless way for Pedos to act out on their desires. Some kind of simulated virtual reality technology or something?

I, personally, would have no problems with this at all, providing no children were actually involved in any way.

The argument against would be that by doing so they would not be trying to 'cure' themselves.



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User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2264 times:

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 3):
Pedophilia & pedophiles can never be anything else then an extremely bad thing. The very idea of viewing children in a sexual way is wrong. People who do not act on such feelings aren't much better then those who do.

I don't really agree with making a value judgement about people's feelings if they don't act on them. We barely understand the source of people's feelings and/or ability to control whether and when they occur. The interjection of reason to control impulse is the real triumph.

I imagine I'd be held in low esteem for some of the urges that I have had to suppress. Not pedophilia, but definitely murder and a hundred kinds of revenge.

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 11):
Ok, here's an even more extreme curve ball

What if we were to develop a victimless way for Pedos to act out on their desires. Some kind of simulated virtual reality technology or something?

I don't know how the psychology works, but if evidence would indicate that this would reduce the incidence of assaulting actual children I would think its worth a go

I think the logic behind opposing this would be that - to the contrary - acting virtually on feelings would desensitize people to the difference between fantasy and reality. Same as how violence on TV/video games or pornography are claimed to promote bad 'real' behavior. I don't know if that theory is valid or not!


User currently offlinevegetables2001 From UK - England, joined Mar 2012, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2260 times:

Quoting TransIsland (Reply 10):
A pilot project was started in Berlin, Germany (IIRC), reaching out to and trying to help people who have certain desires but would rather not act on them.

Sounds an eminently sensible idea to me.

However, if schemes like this was started it the UK I shudder to think what the papers would make of it......

The Mirror:

"GOVERNMENT GIVES TAX PAYERS MONEY TO PERVES"

:Shudder.:



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User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7410 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2194 times:

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 6):
My opinion is that pedophilia is a sexuality, so like hetrosexuality or homosexuality it is not a choice. This makes sense, (why on earth would anyone choose to become something so reviled?).

People not too long ago (and some today) thought the same about homosexuality, as society has mostly come to terms with same sex partnerships will we in the future be more accepting of other sexual proclivities?

On the other hand if anyone so much as touched one of my kids I'd have them killed.

[Edited 2012-03-24 08:50:12]

User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2093 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2181 times:

I recall reading that the vast majority of paedophiles never acts out their desires, i.e. never touches a kid or gets access to child pornography etc.

Also, 90% of paedophiles who are released from prison never become deliquent again. Needless to say the media never ever reports on these people. Only if they be reoffend, there's a huge outcry ("scandalous that this pig was released", "lock them up and throw away the key" etc.)

The number of people who have sexual thoughts about children is actually astounding, according to studies about it (which are hard to do because nobody would like to admit that). Let's just say this world would be a very dangerous place for children if every adult paedophile were to follow their sex drives. Also, we'd need a LOT more prisons if we were to lock up everyone who has these kinds of thoughts.

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 1):

But to answer your question. The only good pedo is a dead one.

If I made the laws, this kind of hate speech would be a punishable act.



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlinevegetables2001 From UK - England, joined Mar 2012, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2088 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 16):
If I made the laws, this kind of hate speech would be a punishable act.

Can't say I agreed with what the guy said but I find this idea people should be punished for saying unpleasant things creepy in the extremis - how would you punish him fine? jail? re-education?



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User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 46
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2056 times:
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HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 15):
People not too long ago (and some today) thought the same about homosexuality, as society has mostly come to terms with same sex partnerships will we in the future be more accepting of other sexual proclivities?

I think there should be only one law about sex: "any sexual activity is permitted, as long as it's between consenting adults, and as long as no third party is hurt".

Quoting kiwiinoz (Reply 6):

I absolutely agree with your post. The problem I see is that pedophilia is such a taboo in our society that nobody dares to talk about it, without finishing the same sentence with "... and I'd kill those bastards". Trying to do any kind of information or "support" through the media would be a complete disaster.



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2093 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2028 times:

Quoting vegetables2001 (Reply 17):

Can't say I agreed with what the guy said but I find this idea people should be punished for saying unpleasant things creepy in the extremis - how would you punish him fine? jail? re-education?

With a fine, I guess. Are you from the UK? The UK has hate speech laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_the_United_Kingdom

The thing is that hate speech isn't just "unpleasant", as you say. If people say "person XY isn't human, kill him" for long enough, somebody will be killed. In this context, it doesn't matter whether XY pertains to race, religion, sexual orientation, or whatever. Paedophiles are humans too - the law has to protect society from them, yes - but if it has to protect them from society, then so be it.

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 18):

I think there should be only one law about sex: "any sexual activity is permitted, as long as it's between consenting adults, and as long as no third party is hurt".

What about incest?  



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlinevegetables2001 From UK - England, joined Mar 2012, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2007 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 19):
Are you from the UK? The UK has hate speech laws.

Just another example of unnecessary, unworkable, unenforceable laws that are regularly placed on the statute books in the UK - usually so politicians can curry favour with a particular newspaper or minority group. A day never goes by in my place of work without hearing racist, sexist, homophobic remarks.

Passing laws simply doesn't alter peoples thought processes



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User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2093 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 1 day ago) and read 1989 times:

Quoting vegetables2001 (Reply 20):
A day never goes by in my place of work without hearing racist, sexist, homophobic remarks.

No, in mine neither. People are people and the world isn't perfect. Still, if somebody at work said "I hate all Jews and I think we should kill them all" in all seriousness, I wouldn't just let it pass.

Quoting vegetables2001 (Reply 20):

Passing laws simply doesn't alter peoples thought processes

... and it well shouldn't. Yet, I think a civilized society can agree on certain minimum standards, "don't kill anyone" being one of them, "don't incite hatred" being another. Freedom is invaluable, but freedom ends where somebody else's freedom is compromised.

If an enemy of yours took to the streets chanting "kill vegetables2001", you'd want to be able to shut him up, wouldn't you?



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlinevegetables2001 From UK - England, joined Mar 2012, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 1979 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 21):
If an enemy of yours took to the streets chanting "kill vegetables2001", you'd want to be able to shut him up, wouldn't you?

I could see it would get very wearing after a little! However, a direct incitement to murder is different to:

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 1):
The only good pedo is a dead one.

which is the statement we're discussing.



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User currently onlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13116 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

As part of discovery disclosures in the current civil and criminal investigations and criminal tiral prep of former Penn State University assistant Football Coach Jerry Sandusky, a report done in 1998 by a doctor expressed with a concern that he was a pedophile. This article from ESPN gives some details:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...dusky-called-likely-pedophile-1998

In the past when people lived in small communities and neighborhoods, there was considerable pressure and a lack of privacy to get away with sexually assaulting children. Kids were told to 'stay away' from that 'odd neighbor' based on rumors. Some many not/do not act due to religious upbringing, social and family pressures as well as getting caught and financial ruin. Even to the present, some powerful people like Catholic priests or a sports coach like Sandusky, could and can put the fear of God into a child they molested if they rat them out. Also in the past it was not suitable to discuss sexual issues in general and especially about sexual assault. As we moved into larger communities, privacy became more important, then more could act on their impulses and did. They could go to an area no one knew them and find victims. Some may seek adult men or women prostitutes who are physically similar to children in size and body development for sexual pleasure that simulates being with a child or go to places in the world (like in Southeast Asia) where it easy to get children for sex. Of course, porn involving children or young adults that look like children is easily available on line or through pedophile networks.

Some would, to paraphrase, say that the only good Pedophile is a dead one. But if one does refrain from and does not do any sexual assault, then while they are not 'good' then at least they are controlling their impulses. It is also important to wonder if something in the persons' DNA, or ancestors may have a biological factor that leads them to seek sex with children.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11659 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 23 hours ago) and read 1972 times:

Quoting vegetables2001 (Thread starter):
Has there been any sort of studies?

I think people would be afraid to participate in that kind of study. Who would answer honestly a question like "have you ever found a 14 year old girl/boy attractive?"

I worry for us gays. We put so much emphasis on youth. Some gays get really extreme about it, acting out fantasies on 18 and 19 year olds that look 14 and 15. It makes me sick. Nothing wrong with wanting to stay firm and young, but to go that far is too far, IMHO.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 23):
It is also important to wonder if something in the persons' DNA, or ancestors may have a biological factor that leads them to seek sex with children.

That is an interesting theory. It could be an older man/younger girl scenario would, at the most basic level, be survival. The sooner a woman can begin bearing children, the better survival of the species. As far as man on boy, maybe a teaching instinct?



Life in the wall is a drag.
25 Dreadnought : I disagree. It is the essence of civilization to control your urges. We are human beings with passions. We get angry, aroused, upset etc. by things w
26 Mir : I don't think we'll ever be accepting of sex with children, for obvious reasons - it's not between consenting adults, which puts it in an entirely di
27 mariner : That would be a real problem for me. I started to become sexually active when I was twelve although I'd fooled around with other boys at school befor
28 tugger : Everyone will likely respond "those older men you were with were wrong and should not have done anything with you. They are the adults and therefore
29 seb146 : What about boys who are told that sort of thing is wrong but they (the boys) encourage it? There are boys who do want the attention of adults in that
30 vegetables2001 : It isn't paedophillia at the age of 12, It stops (In my opinion) being paedophilla when the child starts to have sexual desires themselves. The desir
31 mariner : Some dictionaries agree with you. The law and much of society does not. 78% of the victims of the so-called "Pedophile Priests" in the US were betwee
32 ManuCH : Exactly. I'd only trust a survey to be anonymous if it was organized by myself. Everything else can't be trusted 100%. How can I be sure that they wo
33 seb146 : And, in my case, those thoughts never left my head; I never acted on them. But, consider this: even taking into account it is wrong, maybe I, as a 17
34 na : Absolutely right. Paedophiles who "molest" children or watch children being misused cannot be tolerated. Paedophiles are murderes of human souls, of
35 KiwiRob : Some definitions disagree with you. What I would be concerned about is that if the poster thought it was ok when he was 12 being molested by older me
36 Rara : True, but that's not paedophilia in its truest sense, I think. The existence of an "adolescent age", where people are already sexual beings but need
37 Post contains images SmittyOne : No, rather commended for self-control of their baser instincts. And watched like a hawk
38 KiwiRob : Wow just wow, very surprised buy this, so it's ok for dad to have sex with his son but not with his daughter? In either case its morally wrong. Just
39 ManuCH : I wouldn't think this is an issue - if a 12 year old seeks for sex with a 20 year old, that 12 year old is obviously attracted by older men. When he'
40 KiwiRob : Sorry ManuCH I just don't believe that a 12 year old would be seeking out older men, it doesn't play right, you might say only the law considers it a
41 Rara : If a 12 year old tells me that, then yes. I'd hold him to be incapable of judging the matter correctly. But if a 70 year old tells me that? I'm not s
42 vegetables2001 : Where on earth did you find these guys? They aren't animals incapable of controlling themselves! These guys decided it was ok to have sex with a 12 y
43 mariner : Around. My circumstances were unusual - although British, because of my father's various overseas postings I was born, raised and educated in countri
44 MillwallSean : No, no matter how warm and great relations were, when someone was a child and 12 is a child, its not ok. Never should it be ok. And yes that is a text
45 seb146 : That is a good idea for repeat offenders. However, there is this scenario which happens a lot in this country: A couple have been dating for a few ye
46 slider : I disagree. Hey, some guys like Asian women, have a fetish for certain races in women, other women like certain types of men. I don't think pedphilia
47 KiwiRob : Yup those daft child beauty pageants should be banned, they must be like catnip to pedos who like little girls.
48 AirCanada787 : I can't find my link to more info right now but there is working being done at the University of Toronto on this subject. If you look up Dr James Can
49 Klaus : You're confusing different matters: Pedophile desires are most probably "hardwired" indeed, so the individual will not be culpable for having such de
50 kiwiinoz : Actually, we are not in total disagreement My point is that pedophiles DO have a choice. To control and resist their urges, for the greater good, rec
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