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Tsunami Ghost Ship Drifting Near Canada  
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12590 posts, RR: 25
Posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3636 times:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17500008

I was wondering how long it would take for this to happen.

Quote:

The tsunami last March generated more than 25 million tonnes of debris, say researchers at the University of Hawaii. Between four and eight million tonnes were washed into the ocean, with one to two million tonnes still floating on the surface.

The main mass of the debris is not expected to make landfall in North America until March 2014.

Should be interesting to see what kind of mess washes ashore.


Inspiration, move me brightly!
57 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinealberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2921 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3632 times:

why not just sink it ???


short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12590 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3594 times:

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):
why not just sink it ???

In the old days, that's just what they would have done.

These days, every bit of oil on board has to be removed, and many other "remediation activities" have to occur too.

The good news is the thing will probably bash itself to pieces before all the paperwork needed to do it "the right way" will get done!



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinePowerslide From Canada, joined Oct 2010, 569 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3579 times:

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):
why not just sink it ???

Agreed, our fighters need the practice, plus we have a lot of missiles that will expire soon.....   


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3526 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3567 times:
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Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Should be interesting to see what kind of mess washes ashore.

Just keep in mind that some where in that "mess" there will be human remains... May well be some HR on the boat as well...



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User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 5, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3551 times:

Would it be possible to lower someone down and start the engines? Then properly sail it in to port?


Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinebabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3544 times:

That surely is a danger to shipping? Imagine if it drifted into a busy shipping lane.

I can imagine the insurance company want it salvaged while the operator wants the insurance money.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14030 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3510 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Would it be possible to lower someone down and start the engines? Then properly sail it in to port?

Exactly. If all hatches were properly closed, it will on the inside probably look like new. A few weeks on a slipway and a new coat of paint and this ship should be workable again.

Jan


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

Quoting alberchico (Reply 1):
why not just sink it ???

Nobody probably knows what sort of nasty things might be onboard.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 9, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3496 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
Exactly. If all hatches were properly closed, it will on the inside probably look like new.

Was Charlton Heston the last person qualified to do this? He did something similar mid-air in the movie Airport 75.
It's been out at sea for 1 year. It isn't that long ago and should be fully functional. I wonder how much fuel is in the tanks.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):
Nobody probably knows what sort of nasty things might be onboard.

You think a rat colony could survive for a year on an abandon boat?
My guess is that it would have what a typical fishing boat would have when it's docked.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14030 posts, RR: 62
Reply 10, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3462 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 8):
Nobody probably knows what sort of nasty things might be onboard.

You think a rat colony could survive for a year on an abandon boat?
My guess is that it would have what a typical fishing boat would have when it's docked.

I would want to wear protective gear (and possibly a gasmask) before entering the galley or the fidh holds.
For the rest it should be ok.

Jan


User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3393 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 5):
Would it be possible to lower someone down and start the engines? Then properly sail it in to port?
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):
I would want to wear protective gear (and possibly a gasmask) before entering the galley or the fidh holds.

There would be a lot of issues to be overcome to get the ship started.

First, if it has indeed been buttoned up tight for a year, you have 'confined space entry' issues - plenty of things in the mechanical spaces that might cause an explosive or unsafe atmosphere (corrosion, fuel/oil, batteries). For that you need a marine chemist to certify that it is even safe to enter. Rotting galley/fish holds/human remains make this even worse.

And that would be the 'ideal' scenario LOL. More likely there has been plenty of salt water contamination down through the vents and inadequately secured or corroding hatches, into the electrical runs etc. Keeping after the normal damage caused by operation in a salt water environment is a full time job for a ship's crew and shoreside support. Drifting unmanned at sea for over a year, it has got to be a mechanical disaster in many respects. Even something as simple as the diesel fuel being contaminated by salt water or abundant bio growth is an issue.

Even if you could get it running, it would not be a safe place for that crew to be...with much of the comms and survival gear likely to be compromised it would be a death trap in a storm.

A far less risky solution to this Flying Dutchman would be to have another ship just tow it in. Not much financial incentive for the owners to do it, but if it becomes a hazard to navigation or approaches shore that is probably what will happen. Sinking would be the cheaper choice but as already has been mentioned the environmental issues would prevent it.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
Exactly. If all hatches were properly closed, it will on the inside probably look like new. A few weeks on a slipway and a new coat of paint and this ship should be workable again.

Jan

Jan;

I normally agree with what you write, but I'm more pessimistic about this, having gone through about 8 major shipyard periods with vessels that were continuously and meticulously maintained. Looking at the rust etc. on the topside of this ship I'm thinking that much of its equipment is trashed - constant exposure to the salt with no lubrication/maintenance will seize these things up pretty quickly. At the very least, all of the working gear topside will have to be overhauled, all the interior tanks/bilges opened, inspected and cleaned, and a fair amount of the electronics/electrical equipment replaced. Could be several months' work depending on how bad it is.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 9):
You think a rat colony could survive for a year on an abandon boat?

Wouldn't surprise me...they might all die out but not before chewing the hell out of everything first!

[Edited 2012-03-24 13:03:13]

User currently onlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7654 posts, RR: 18
Reply 12, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3393 times:

Wow, this reminds me of the second Carach Angren album: "Death Came Through a Phantom Ship"

(google the lyrics)



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12590 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3363 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 4):
Just keep in mind that some where in that "mess" there will be human remains... May well be some HR on the boat as well...

My presumption was that a year in salt water would break down any HR in the water, but I really hadn't considered that there might have been people on-board, which is indeed a possibility. If the ship made it out to sea in-tact I would have thought any people on board probably would have survived the tsunami and could have done something to save themselves or signal others, but you never know.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5628 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3321 times:

Quoting babybus (Reply 6):
That surely is a danger to shipping? Imagine if it drifted into a busy shipping lane.

I can imagine the insurance company want it salvaged while the operator wants the insurance money.

From what I understand a shipping advisory has been issued.
Also the owners have been found so likely either insurance will quickly take care if it so these no additional financial liability is possible (I am sure if it does damage to anything they would still be liable). Or some some enterprising salvage ship will take ownership of it under the "law of the sea" (though I don't know how it really works).

I am certain it will not be allowed to founder now that it is "known".

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineswissy From Switzerland, joined Jan 2005, 1734 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3300 times:

Quoting Powerslide (Reply 3):
Agreed, our fighters need the practice, plus we have a lot of missiles that will expire soon.....

What, we got more then one fighter???  Wow! LOL

Why not tow it and recycle it the proper way...

Cheerios,


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29802 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3226 times:

It probably isn't the only one out there from the earthquake.

A few years ago a squid boat was abandoned by its crew because of an on-board emergency. I think it was six months later when it was found washed up on a beach here in Alaska.

The US govt went back the the owners for salvage/clean-up costs for the boat. In addition to the POL on board there was also several ten-thousand pounds of rotting squid on board her.

I doubt that smelled good.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19794 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3135 times:

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 4):
Just keep in mind that some where in that "mess" there will be human remains... May well be some HR on the boat as well...

Probably not. The vessel is afloat, from which we can conclude that there was minimal to no damage sustained during the tsunami (which was just a big wave, as far as the boat is concerned). If there were crew aboard, they could have either radioed for help or piloted her back to shore. The tsunami itself would not have damaged the vessel, which is designed to handle bigger waves than that. Damage to ships occurred from being smashed into various obstacles or being washed ashore. The fact that this one floated out to sea suggests that it was probably perfectly serviceable in the immediate period after the waves hit.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 11):
I normally agree with what you write, but I'm more pessimistic about this, having gone through about 8 major shipyard periods with vessels that were continuously and meticulously maintained. Looking at the rust etc. on the topside of this ship I'm thinking that much of its equipment is trashed - constant exposure to the salt with no lubrication/maintenance will seize these things up pretty quickly. At the very least, all of the working gear topside will have to be overhauled, all the interior tanks/bilges opened, inspected and cleaned, and a fair amount of the electronics/electrical equipment replaced. Could be several months' work depending on how bad it is.

That said, Knock Nevis got firebombed and was returned to service. Other ships have taken some serious damage and been returned to service. In the end, like anything else, it will be cost of repair vs. cost of replacement, assuming the owner is still alive.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 13):
My presumption was that a year in salt water would break down any HR in the water,

There would be nothing left after a year. Various marine critters both large and small would have disposed of it.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11678 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3119 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 2):
The good news is the thing will probably bash itself to pieces before all the paperwork needed to do it "the right way" will get done!

Yeah. Right. Google "New Carissa"



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinedarksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1367 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3059 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):

That said, Knock Nevis got firebombed and was returned to service. Other ships have taken some serious damage and been returned to service. In the end, like anything else, it will be cost of repair vs. cost of replacement, assuming the owner is still alive
Knock Nevis was also a 660,000 ton ULCC. Quite a different cost analysis there...



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19794 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3035 times:

Quoting darksnowynight (Reply 19):
Knock Nevis was also a 660,000 ton ULCC. Quite a different cost analysis there...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Leeward

This is a smaller vessel that has had quite a bit of bad luck.


User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2983 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
That said, Knock Nevis got firebombed and was returned to service. Other ships have taken some serious damage and been returned to service. In the end, like anything else, it will be cost of repair vs. cost of replacement, assuming the owner is still alive.

Roger that Doc...with ships just about anything is possible. Just add money  


User currently onlinepar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7297 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2964 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 2):
The good news is the thing will probably bash itself to pieces before all the paperwork needed to do it "the right way" will get done!

That's the bad news, it would have to make it to some shoreline, get battered and whatever contaminants onboard would then get spilled most likely onto the shore.

Best case here is for some tug boat / salvage ship getting to her before it gets close to a reef or shoreline to get battered, put a line on her, get her to some safe area - even at sea -, conduct an inspection then have the authorities make an informed decision on her disposal. Japan has already provided information on the owner, hopefully they may remember the state of the vessel when it made port and was being prepared for his next voyage.

As for a danger to shipping, it appears to be a metal boat, so those folks who are standing watch watching the radar screens now know they need to actually stand watch and watch the radar screen if anywhere near Canadian waters, we could make it easy for them by letting them know which coast east or west, but........... 


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2947 times:

That boat looks like it could be repaired and returned to operation as a squid fishing boat.

It should be towed to the nearest port with a dry dock facility and see if it can be repaired. If it can, the previous owner could get a very nice payment for the proceeds from the sale of the repaired boat to a new owner.  


User currently offlineZANL188 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 3526 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 6 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2946 times:
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Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
Probably not. The vessel is afloat, from which we can conclude that there was minimal to no damage sustained during the tsunami (which was just a big wave, as far as the boat is concerned). If there were crew aboard, they could have either radioed for help or piloted her back to shore. The tsunami itself would not have damaged the vessel, which is designed to handle bigger waves than that. Damage to ships occurred from being smashed into various obstacles or being washed ashore. The fact that this one floated out to sea suggests that it was probably perfectly serviceable in the immediate period after the waves hit

Probably not. If it had been at sea when the tsunami struck there would have been a crew aboard and we would not be having this discussion. The boats that were swept out to sea from harbor first had to deal with the inbound wave, being smashed into bridges, etc (remember the pictures?). Then when the tsunami receded they were swept out to sea, again being bashed into things along the way. And you are assuming the boat was "perfectly serviceable" sitting at the dock before the tsunami which is a real stretch.

How many are still missing? 10,000+? No remains? Granted the ones in the water probably won't have much left... but there's a lot of floating debris out there... houses... boats...



Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
25 Revelation : Thanks for your cheery and respectful reply, and please note I used the word "probably". Yes, understood, my point was intended to sarcastically high
26 DocLightning : If that had happened, it would not be floating. There cannot be serious damage below the waterline because she would have sunk. The worst that could
27 tugger : The latest information has the number missing down to about 3,000. Tugg
28 zanl188 : You got all that from one pix? Power would still have worked after a year at sea, really? How do you know the power worked BEFORE the tsunami?
29 SMOLT : This has turn out to be a ship that was being stored at the port for sales when the tsunami attacked, already written off after tsunami took this away
30 BMI727 : Wouldn't it belong to the insurer then?
31 SMOLT : >>BMI727 Roport does not refer to the insurer. It's not likely that the pre-owner contracted insurance for the ship that was not in operation.
32 PHX787 : Plus as you said, it's written off the books, so I'm not sure if the insurer actually wants it after the fact, then.
33 Superfly : This is an interesting thread. I have a mild interest in ships but there is a lot I don't know about. Is one year out at sea that long? They earthquak
34 Revelation : Calm down, folks, this is supposed to be a casual discussion forum, right? Thanks for the information. Any idea if anyone was aboard the ship when th
35 SmittyOne : Sure, but as Revelation mentioned, preparing them properly is important. Usually a lot of work is needed to get them ready to operate again. Hence th
36 Post contains images PHX787 : Well someone can pull it outta the water and grab what they can find for some quick recycling cash, eh?
37 Post contains images Revelation : If it were near the US coast and it had copper pipes on it, there would be a swarm of boats heading out there to hack out the pipes! It wouldn't be t
38 Post contains links tugger : Interesting bits on the Law of the Sea - Salvage: (emphasis added) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_salvage So I suspect that right now someone, so
39 Post contains images DocLightning : Flying sharks with friggin' LASERS on their heads, dude. No, I was talking about HR in the water washed out to sea during the tsunami.
40 Post contains images Superfly : Now I don't need to cancel my boat trip this weekend.
41 Post contains images DocLightning : I have three days to genetically engineer flying sharks with lasers, then...
42 SmittyOne : I figure every creature deserves a warm meal...
43 Post contains images Superfly : Would be interesting if this boat floats right in to Vancouver harbor.
44 Post contains images DocLightning : They'd go aboard, find it contained no weed, and cast it back out to sea.
45 Post contains links Revelation : There's plenty of weed aboard - seaweed! Meanwhile, the saga continues: Alaskan coast guard watches as tsunami ghost ship drifts toward U.S. water I
46 Post contains links dragon-wings : It looks like the US Coast Guard is firing on the ship so they can sink it. A quoate from the article "Besides clearing a shipping lane, sinking the n
47 PHX787 : Saw a report on the AP saying they're gonna sink it. The fuel will evapourate and dissolve in the water.
48 Post contains links and images Revelation : Apparently the last thing the derelict ship will ever see is: Various reports say that USCGC ANACAPA used its 25mm cannon to hole the ship and set her
49 canoecarrier : I don't know any of the Coasties in Sitka but the ones I knew in other Alaskan towns would be off their rocker excited for live fire practice like th
50 L-188 : Apparently the 25 mm opened up at one o'clock, and by the time I drove home at four they had pumped 200 rounds into it and it was still floating. At l
51 Revelation : One of the articles said the ship was out of Petersburg, which is far far away from Sitka, so your pals don't seem to be the ones getting to have a g
52 Post contains links Revelation : She's gone... Ref: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17630153
53 canoecarrier : Why did it have to be done quickly? It was moving around 1 knot. Regardless of the "safety hazard to shipping" they said it posed, which was really o
54 Post contains images PHX787 : Aww, I was hoping FPS Russia would get the job
55 L-188 : Cut them a bit of slack. Hand aiming off a pitching deck of a manuvering ship at another pitching and rolling ship in the same seas isn't exactly the
56 tugger : By the way, you have to remember that the proper way to fire a canon like that is to aim for the water in front of the target and walk up to the targ
57 TheRedBaron : Do zombies die if they go to the bottom of the sea? maybe they will walk towards alaska in the bottom of the sea an look for some brains....if they la
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