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Romney On Spending: Guns Triumph Over Butter  
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12571 posts, RR: 25
Posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1648 times:

Quote:

Reducing government deficits Mitt Romney's way would mean less money for health care for the poor and disabled and big cuts to nuts-and-bolts functions such as food inspection, border security and education.

Romney also promises budget increases for the Pentagon, above those sought by some GOP defense hawks, meaning that the rest of the government would have to shrink even more. Nonmilitary programs would incur still larger cuts than those called for in the tightfisted GOP budget that the House passed last month.

Ref: http://news.yahoo.com/romney-spendin...triumph-over-butter-120715130.html

I think it should be less guns AND less butter.

Is Romney pandering to the defense contractors to get elected?


Inspiration, move me brightly!
53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11660 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1628 times:

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Is Romney pandering to the defense contractors to get elected?

Of course. One reason for this is Citizens United. Worst case decision by SCOTUS ever. Any corporation or country can give as much as they want to any election cause and no one will know it was them doing it.

This is not strictly Romney. He is actually pandering to his base: the far right-wing.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1628 times:

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Is Romney pandering to the defense contractors to get elected?

Remember the golden rule of the GOP: thou shalt not infringe on the security-industrial complex - it must be fed and pampered at all times without question.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12571 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1605 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
He is actually pandering to his base: the far right-wing.

He already has them on-board, because they certainly ain't going to be voting for Obama.

He should be moving more towards the middle, at least if/till he gets elected.

Cutting government services at the same time as increasing defense spending is not going to be popular with the independents or the Tea Party folks either.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8842 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1598 times:

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
I think it should be less guns AND less butter.

Is Romney pandering to the defense contractors to get elected?

You are basing this on an editorial with a decided slant to the left.

Close to 150 million Americans live in a household that receives some form of government assistance. That is outrageous, and it has to come down - hard.

As for the pentagon, the cuts that Obama is set to impose on them is equally unacceptable (Obama's own SecDef says so as well), so what the article calls "increases to the pentagon's budget" is more likely a reduction of the size of the cut - cutting 20% rather than 30%, for example.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
Cutting government services at the same time as increasing defense spending is not going to be popular with the independents or the Tea Party folks either.

This is true.

[Edited 2012-04-24 08:59:48]


Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1576 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
He already has them on-board, because they certainly ain't going to be voting for Obama.

But they might stay home, which is something the Romney camp also needs to be worried about.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
so what the article calls "increases to the pentagon's budget" is more likely a reduction of the size of the cut - cutting 20% rather than 30%, for example.

If you can find numbers in his proposed budget to back that up, I'd be more than happy to believe it. But you'll forgive me for being suspicious of a Republican claiming to want to cut spending on one of their core items.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5612 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1573 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
You are basing this on an editorial with a decided slant to the left.

We have based things on worse before. The key question is are the actions/comments from Romney real or aren't they?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
Close to 150 million Americans live in a household that receives some form of government assistance. That is outrageous, and it has to come down - hard.

Are you including military, military retirees, and VA and other medical benefits (Tri-Care, etc.) recipients?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
As for the pentagon, the cuts that Obama is set to impose on them is equally unacceptable (Obama's own SecDef says so as well), so what the article calls "increases to the pentagon's budget" is more likely a reduction of the size of the cut - cutting 20% rather than 30%, for example.

Sorry, my paycheck is directly dependent on those programs and even still I firmly believe that the Pentagon budget is bloated and out of control and must be cut, just like many social programs must be cut. It must be cut and the leaders must cut the waste and chaff and keep the critical war fighting systems. Of course the politicians always interfere but that is another reason why the Pentagon needs to be cut back.

And the current size of the cut being considered is ~10%.
Now if you want to go to the ten years number that will be different but then you rightly tend to castigate people that go to the ten year number because it is not a real number.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12571 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1446 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
But you'll forgive me for being suspicious of a Republican claiming to want to cut spending on one of their core items.

So much for the experienced businessman knowing what it takes to get the country's fiscal house in order.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39888 posts, RR: 74
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1427 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):
So much for the experienced businessman knowing what it takes to get the country's fiscal house in order.

Yep, the ghetto community organizer is SO much better.  
Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
Is Romney pandering to the defense contractors to get elected?

There are far worse groups to pander to.....



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29800 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1419 times:

Butters fattening.....better stick with the guns.

Sorry on the Ipod......visualize a photo of Lou Or Arnold doing a bicept shot



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39888 posts, RR: 74
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1411 times:

Quoting L-188 (Reply 9):
Butters fattening.....

Good point.
Barack & Michelle's nutrition czars want us to cut out the fat also so I guess Romney is doing the right thing.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11660 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1402 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
Cutting government services at the same time as increasing defense spending is not going to be popular with the independents or the Tea Party folks either.

More tea people than anyone. They want all them terrorists dead so Christian loving Americans can be safe from Muslim terrorists.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
You are basing this on an editorial with a decided slant to the left.

Romney puts out a proposal and, based on that proposal and quoting directly from it, the article is evil and wrong?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
Close to 150 million Americans live in a household that receives some form of government assistance. That is outrageous, and it has to come down - hard.

Let them die! They can't afford to pay insurance or for food, so they should just die! I have mine and everyone else can just... well... you get the idea. That is pretty much the right-wing mantra when it comes to helping any working American.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
the ghetto community organizer is SO much better

How many jobs have been lost under this administration? How is the stock market doing? Housing starts?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39888 posts, RR: 74
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1400 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
How many jobs have been lost under this administration? How is the stock market doing? Housing starts?

How come the US got the first credit downgrade in US history on HIS watch?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4022 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1391 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
Of course. One reason for this is Citizens United. Worst case decision by SCOTUS ever. Any corporation or country can give as much as they want to any election cause and no one will know it was them doing it.

Oh, here we go again... the big, bad, Citizens United. The fact is, corporations have always been allowed to donate to political candidates as much as they wanted, without any control or transparency. All they needed to do was call themselves media corporations. Why the hell do you think GE held on to NBC for so long? Of course, since with one notable exception (or as you like to call it, "the one that got away") all media corporations donated a lot more (airtime) to left wing candidates than right wing ones you were OK with the things as they were before.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19736 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1381 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
Barack & Michelle's nutrition czars want us to cut out the fat

Why do you need to go after them like that? That just cheapens any valid argument that you have.

They have SUGGESTED (not mandated, not regulated) that Americans need to eat healthier. What possible RATIONAL objection could there be to that? Nancy and Ronald Reagan did a lot more than SUGGEST that people not do drugs.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39888 posts, RR: 74
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1353 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
They have SUGGESTED (not mandated, not regulated) that Americans need to eat healthier. What possible RATIONAL objection could there be to that?

Would make since if she was doing the same...

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 14):
Nancy and Ronald Reagan did a lot more than SUGGEST that people not do drugs.

Yes I remember what a joke that was.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6674 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1341 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
How come the US got the first credit downgrade in US history on HIS watch?

His and the Republican House watch. I seem to remember the inability of both sides to come to an agreement was a main reason for the downgrade.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39888 posts, RR: 74
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1333 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 16):
His and the Republican House watch. I seem to remember the inability of both sides to come to an agreement was a main reason for the downgrade.

True. He is the top boss and has to take responsibility. The warning signs of a credit downgrade were present during that debacle.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1332 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
True. He is the top boss and has to take responsibility. The warning signs of a credit downgrade were present during that debacle.

So he should have caved in to any and all demands from the Republicans, whose President had just left him the worst recession in decades?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39888 posts, RR: 74
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1324 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 18):
So he should have caved in to any and all demands from the Republicans, whose President had just left him the worst recession in decades?

First of all, the "blame Bush" card expired after 2 years in office. That is why Obama lost Control of Congress and the Republicans that were swept in to office in 2010 did NOT run on a platform to return to the Bush era policies.
EVERYONE knows that Bush left a horrible mess. No one is denying that. The criticism Obama faces is because of his handling of the mess that Bush left.
The government spending is way out of control and US involvement in other countries internal affairs is just insane. You being in Germany should appreciate efforts to scale back US involvement in other nation's affairs. Much of the resentment towards the United States is because of our nation's meddling in too many affairs in other countries. It is bankrupting our country and will drag down the rest of the world with us unless something changes dramatically. Obama's printing of money and putting us in more debt is NOT the solution.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4629 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1313 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 2):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
. Much of the resentment towards the United States is because of our nation's meddling in too many affairs in other countries

And yet this thread is about the fact that the GOP wants to increase Defense spending, which means that there will be far more resources for meddling.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
Obama's printing of money and putting us in more debt is NOT the solution.

Obama doesn't print Money.the fed does.

The money spent to this point was to prevent a depression. It seem the conservatives have extremely short term memories about what happened to and what is happening to the housing markey, and jobs in the US.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39888 posts, RR: 74
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1312 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 20):
And yet this thread is about the fact that the GOP wants to increase Defense spending, which means that there will be far more resources for meddling.

Well the world is such a safe place now and becoming safer.....  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4629 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1302 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
Well the world is such a safe place now and becoming safer

How is it effectively getitng worse than it was under Reagen? Back then we lived under the constant threat of Nuclear war.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1299 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 20):
And yet this thread is about the fact that the GOP wants to increase Defense spending, which means that there will be far more resources for meddling.

Exactly. I'm somewhat familiar with a saying along the lines of "if you want to be left in peace, prepare for war" - sadly, the Republicans seem to have developed the idea that preparation is not enough, but that you must actually start a war or two to be left in peace.   

The repercussions of that are still very noticeable and will remain so until, I suppose, the world changes significantly.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
First of all, the "blame Bush" card expired after 2 years in office.

If you say so...    Bush had eight years to sort out the dot.com burst and decades-old underregulation of the financial markets. What he did instead was start two major (and hence very costly) wars and cut taxes so that the resulting deficit would become even larger. Please remind me, when did the Republicans realise that this sort of financial insanity is unsustainable - when they fought to extend those tax cuts?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1291 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
As for the pentagon, the cuts that Obama is set to impose on them is equally unacceptable (Obama's own SecDef says so as well), so what the article calls "increases to the pentagon's budget" is more likely a reduction of the size of the cut - cutting 20% rather than 30%, for example.

Even after the proposed defense spending reductions, America will be spending more on "defense' (welfare for Lockheed Martin, in some part) than the rest of the world combined. No need to look for monsters under the bed.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
More tea people than anyone. They want all them terrorists dead so Christian loving Americans can be safe from Muslim terrorists.

   Yah. No xenophobia there.  



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39888 posts, RR: 74
Reply 25, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1322 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 23):
What he did instead was start two major (and hence very costly) wars and cut taxes so that the resulting deficit would become even larger.

Dubya is a horrible example to go by. Once again, you need to realize that not all Obama critics support Dubya either.
We have two screwed up Presidents in a row. Dubya & Obama equally suck. So if you want to discuss the merits of Obama, you're gonna have to do better than a Dubya comparison.
If Romney is elected and turns out to be just as bad, then we'll just have to vote him out as well.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 26, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1307 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 25):
If Romney is elected and turns out to be just as bad, then we'll just have to vote him out as well.

But we already know he will be. Nothing Romney is proposing is anything different than Bush.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8842 posts, RR: 24
Reply 27, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1316 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 26):
But we already know he will be. Nothing Romney is proposing is anything different than Bush.

Well I heard that the Dalai Lama gave a whopping great endorsement of GWB - to the amazement of the interviewer. The interview is to be aired tonight, and will make liberal heads explode everywhere 

Meanwhile, Obama is now looking at gutting our 401k and IRA retirement funds. Supposedly it is to find new tax revenue, but I think it is to further discourage people from saving up for their own retirements and thus become more dependent on government retirement income.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/plunder_CrD9s6MElVsEIJj2IVgHuK

Sorry, but I'll take GWB, mistakes and all, vs the current guy who seems intent on expanding government without end.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 28, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1307 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 27):
Meanwhile, Obama is now looking at gutting our 401k and IRA retirement funds.

Is Obama's name even mentioned in the article? No. How do you know this is Obama's idea?

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 27):
Supposedly it is to find new tax revenue, but I think it is to further discourage people from saving up for their own retirements and thus become more dependent on government retirement income.

Trust me, conservative plans to drive peoples wages into the ground will do far more damage to people's ability to save for retirement.


User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8707 posts, RR: 43
Reply 29, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1264 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 25):
So if you want to discuss the merits of Obama, you're gonna have to do better than a Dubya comparison.

My point is that he seems to be doing OK, considering the mess he "inherited" and the Republicans' unwillingness to compromise. Things could certainly be better, but only if the previous administrations had done better jobs.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 30, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1257 times:

Eliminating the ability to collectively bargain thereby reducing employees power to bargain for raises/benefits.
Eliminating the minimum wage.
Eliminating health/safety regulations costing employees lost wages due to injury/death.
Pushing for trade agreements that allow foreign nations to flood the U.S. with cheap products produced by child labor.

All of these things have been pushed by conservatives and they all undermine wages of the working class.

I don't have a problem with cutting government spending as I'll agree that government is spending too much. However, when I see guys like Romney try to increase defense spending based on some fake target (4% of GDP), I know he's not serious about reducing the size of government. He's just interested in shifting the spending around.

[Edited 2012-04-25 10:52:46 by SA7700]

User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12571 posts, RR: 25
Reply 31, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1222 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
Yep, the ghetto community organizer is SO much better.

It's not about Obama, we already know what he is like as president! The real issue is what will Romney be like?

The theory his camp puts forward is that he'll use his business acumen to put the financial house in order, but the stuff reported in the article I posted is just a rehash of traditional GOP priorities and will just put us deeper in the hole.

Everyone except the politicians know that to get the US back on the right track, there will need to be cuts in all areas, not cuts in government services to add to defense spending, which is what Romney is proposing.

It's interesting how the GOP is in favor of giving tax breaks and investment incentives because they say innovation should come from the private sector EXCEPT when it comes to defense spending, then government spending is innovative.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 8):
There are far worse groups to pander to.....

I disagree. Conseratives don't like to admit it, but most of our spikes in government spending come either as a result of actual wars (going back to the Revolution) or things like Reagan's cold war spending. The last time we had a balanced budget was Clinton's administration where the dot com boom brought income up and defense cuts brought spending down, yet during those years we still funded big programs like F-22 and had enough of a military in place for GWB to start two wars.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 13):
Oh, here we go again... the big, bad, Citizens United. The fact is, corporations have always been allowed to donate to political candidates as much as they wanted, without any control or transparency. All they needed to do was call themselves media corporations. Why the hell do you think GE held on to NBC for so long?

Really, you equate a small number of corporations buying national broadcast outlets to EVERY corporation being able to pump unlimited funds into the political process?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
First of all, the "blame Bush" card expired after 2 years in office.

No, facts last forever. Bush left the country in a tailspin, and actually was the one who started the auto industry bailout, amongst other things. The downfall of Lehman, IAG, etc happened on Obama's watch, but it's silly to suggest that those things were Obama's fault nor that he could have done much else that what he did in these cases. His main failing in my mind was the stimulus spending, but I'm not sure a GOP president would have done much different.

Quoting aloges (Reply 23):
Exactly. I'm somewhat familiar with a saying along the lines of "if you want to be left in peace, prepare for war" - sadly, the Republicans seem to have developed the idea that preparation is not enough, but that you must actually start a war or two to be left in peace.

+1



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2730 posts, RR: 8
Reply 32, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1225 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 32):
Eliminating the ability to collectively bargain thereby reducing employees power to bargain for raises/benefits

For public sector unions.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 32):
Eliminating the minimum wage.

Yet you support allowing millions of illegals to work as slave laborers and undercutting the ability of the salary bargaining power of legal citizens. remove the illegals and the minimum wage.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 32):
Pushing for trade agreements that allow foreign nations to flood the U.S. with cheap products produced by child labor.

Sorry but this owned by both sides. Let us go back to Al Gore and Newt and their support of NAFTA which started this mess.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 32):
All of these things have been pushed by conservatives and they all undermine wages of the working class.

Funny you did not mention the illegals.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 32):
I don't have a problem with cutting government spending as I'll agree that government is spending too much.

Which means telling the Public sector uniion's no. And stopping the process where they are bargaining with people for whom the donate money to and vote for at the expense of the taxpayer.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 32):
Romney try to increase defense spending based on some fake target (4% of GDP), I know he's not serious about reducing the size of government. He's just interested in shifting the spending around.

No he would be taking away money from items that are not covered in the Constitution and putting it into something that is. Now there need to be some serious house cleaning in Defense spending by really going after the Fraud, waste and abuse and keeping an iron fist on projects like the JSF (which should cancelled).



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5612 posts, RR: 8
Reply 33, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1220 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
How come the US got the first credit downgrade in US history on HIS watch?

Ummm.... do you REALLY think it was because of President Obama and something he was in control of? It was because S&P had become a joke, they got fried burned with the ridiculous ratings they had been giving out for what turned out to be unworthy and so decided (quite boldly) to revise the biggest fish first since they were given an out with the dysfunction in the legislature. It was a perfect target.

The simple fact is the USA has the power to raise more money and support more debt than any other country in the world. Not that we should or that the situation we are in is good but it is eminently solvable (not that the current leadership in the country - all leadership, both sides of the aisle - can achieve a solution).

.

And now I see this thread is devolving into what all threads that involve US politics seem to lately: "No way, you are doing EVERYTHING wrong and only my side can fix things", "Uh uh, we're right and you should only do what my side thinks is right.", "No, you are wrong and here let me drag up a bunch of old points that won't change anything.", "Nuh uh, your side is worse..."

Until both sides work together and cut and reduce spending, and increase revenue and compromise, nothing will get done productively and the hole will get deeper.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12571 posts, RR: 25
Reply 34, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1166 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 35):
Sorry but this owned by both sides. Let us go back to Al Gore and Newt and their support of NAFTA which started this mess.

Agreed. One of my biggest gripes about Clinton was he signed Most Favored Nation status for China despite its huge failings with regard to human rights and to protection of intellectual property. Sam Walton won, the rest of the nation lost, big time.

Let's face it, the two parties are more similar than different. Both are beholden to big money. Neither wants to cut government spending, they just want to spend it differently till we get to the point Greece finds itself in today. By that point, they'll all be out of office and in any case all of their nests will be feathered, and we'll be screwed.

If that's the rules of the games, I'd rather see it squandered on butter rather than guns.

The article in the thread starter shows Romney doesn't really want to cut spending, he just wants to spend it differently.

Isn't it sad that one reason Republicans don't like Gingrich is that he actually did make some compromises with the Dems that were the right things to do for the country as a whole?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 35, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1157 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 34):
he downfall of Lehman, IAG, etc happened on Obama's watch, but it's silly to suggest that those things were Obama's fault nor that he could have done much else that what he did in these cases.

Incorrect. Lehman et all filed in September 2008 - GWB's watch. In fact before the election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_of_Lehman_Brothers

Quoting Revelation (Reply 34):
Everyone except the politicians know that to get the US back on the right track, there will need to be cuts in all areas, not cuts in government services to add to defense spending, which is what Romney is proposing.

I'd say more like cuts in many areas. I'd exempt education, for example. Biggest investment in the future anyone can make. We're going through the same exercise here in Canada. With the exception that there is a realistic expectation of a surplus in FY 2015, absent another downturn. Which could happen, then all bets are off.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19736 posts, RR: 59
Reply 36, posted (2 years 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1154 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 15):

Would make since if she was doing the same...

Michelle Obama has a BMI of 24. That's a normal BMI. So what's your complaint?


User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2730 posts, RR: 8
Reply 37, posted (2 years 5 months 22 hours ago) and read 1101 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 34):
Let's face it, the two parties are more similar than different. Both are beholden to big money. Neither wants to cut government spending, they just want to spend it differently till we get to the point Greece finds itself in today

Now this is something we can really agree on.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 34):
If that's the rules of the games, I'd rather see it squandered on butter rather than guns.

I would rather see gun's because it will create more high tech jobs and like I said it is actually one of the powers that congress was given taxation powers to spend on.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 35):
I'd exempt education, for example

No one has a problem with spending on Education it is just that is not a function of our Federal Government. Remove the Dept of Ed and leave the money in the states where it belongs.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 38, posted (2 years 5 months 21 hours ago) and read 1084 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 37):
Quoting connies4ever (Reply 35):
I'd exempt education, for example

No one has a problem with spending on Education it is just that is not a function of our Federal Government. Remove the Dept of Ed and leave the money in the states where it belongs.

Education is a provincial responsibility in Canada, similar to your situation (except for the Territories where it is federal). There actually is no federal Ministry of Education.

It's just that as a big component of provincial budgets it's an easy target for cuts. Or for post-secondary education, for tuition increases, which amounts to the same thing from a student's perspective. Basically the options presented are: pay more for the same, or pay the same for less. In Quebec there have been multi-thousand student demonstrations for about three weeks now over tuition increases.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1659 posts, RR: 2
Reply 39, posted (2 years 5 months 21 hours ago) and read 1080 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
Well the world is such a safe place now and becoming safer.....

Pulling shit like Lybia won't make the world any safer. Nor continued support of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Israel.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 40, posted (2 years 5 months 21 hours ago) and read 1081 times:

Quoting Revelation (Thread starter):
I think it should be less guns....

I like my guns, thank you very much. The Second Amendment is not going away anytime soon, no matter how hard any politician tries....



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5612 posts, RR: 8
Reply 41, posted (2 years 5 months 21 hours ago) and read 1079 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 37):
I would rather see gun's

What good are guns without people to shoot them? That is why "butter" is more important (or at the VERY least, equally important).

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12571 posts, RR: 25
Reply 42, posted (2 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 1041 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 37):
I would rather see gun's because it will create more high tech jobs

As above, it's funny how conservatives feel it's best to let innovation come from the private sector EXCEPT when they talk about defense spending, then the government is innovative as heck.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 37):
it is actually one of the powers that congress was given taxation powers to spend on.

Well it's a fact the constitution said the government should provide for the militia, all we're discussing is how much money we should be spending on the militia. Right now, we spend more than the rest of the world, combined.

We can only wonder if the framers would have put some terms and conditions into the Constitution if they had any idea that the militia would grow from farmers with muskets to airmen with $200M fighters and $2B bombers and sailors with $12B aircraft carriers.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 37):
No one has a problem with spending on Education it is just that is not a function of our Federal Government. Remove the Dept of Ed and leave the money in the states where it belongs.

My school, UConn, was a land-grant school. Who knows if it and many others would exist if the federal government didn't pass the Land Grant Act? I'm sure Harvard and Yale would exist. Are we really trying to say that higher education should only be for the very wealthy?

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 40):

I like my guns, thank you very much. The Second Amendment is not going away anytime soon, no matter how hard any politician tries....

We were discussing whether or not the federal government should be buying more guns for the militia, not if anyone should be taking away your gun...



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 43, posted (2 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 1036 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 32):
For public sector unions.

So driving the wages/benefits of police, fire, school teachers, etc is going to help strengthen the middle class and help them save more? Not to mention that conservatives have pushed for RTW legislation to undermine private unions.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 32):
Yet you support allowing millions of illegals to work as slave laborers and undercutting the ability of the salary bargaining power of legal citizens.

I don't support it, but conservatives do. That's why they spend all their time on "defending the border" and having police demand papers. Neither of these things solves the illegal immigrant problem and conservatives know it. It's just a distraction.

Illegals will enter this country as long as their are jobs to be had. The easy solution is to crack down on anyone who hires illegal immigrants. However, conservatives are unwilling to do this because many of the illegals create fat profit margins for many corporations that donate to politicians. Plus, many of the illegals work in landscaping and maid services that many wealthy conservatives use.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 32):
Sorry but this owned by both sides.

True, but that doesn't change the fact that conservatives support it.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 32):
Now there need to be some serious house cleaning in Defense spending by really going after the Fraud, waste and abuse and keeping an iron fist on projects like the JSF (which should cancelled).

That's not going to happen when Romney plans to flood the DoD with billions of extra in funding. The fraud, waste and abuse will get far worse when all the DoD contractors see all that money coming.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 44, posted (2 years 5 months 20 hours ago) and read 1029 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 42):
We were discussing whether or not the federal government should be buying more guns for the militia, not if anyone should be taking away your gun...

Oh, I know. I forgot to add the   at the end of my quote. I was just being silly.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19736 posts, RR: 59
Reply 45, posted (2 years 5 months 17 hours ago) and read 995 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 42):
My school, UConn, was a land-grant school. Who knows if it and many others would exist if the federal government didn't pass the Land Grant Act? I'm sure Harvard and Yale would exist. Are we really trying to say that higher education should only be for the very wealthy?

That's EXACTLY what many prominent leaders in the GOP have been trying to say. And that higher education is for the "snobs."

Step 1 of being a despot dictator: eliminate the intellectuals.


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 46, posted (2 years 5 months 17 hours ago) and read 985 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 43):
Illegals will enter this country as long as their are jobs to be had. The easy solution is to crack down on anyone who hires illegal immigrants. However, conservatives are unwilling to do this because many of the illegals create fat profit margins for many corporations that donate to politicians. Plus, many of the illegals work in landscaping and maid services that many wealthy conservatives use.

Which is why illegal immigrant labour is slowing to a trickle: there are precious few jobs to be had that don't require a higher level of education, not merely grunt labour. In fact there is some evidence now that there is a net outflow of illegals from the US.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12571 posts, RR: 25
Reply 47, posted (2 years 5 months 17 hours ago) and read 980 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
That's EXACTLY what many prominent leaders in the GOP have been trying to say. And that higher education is for the "snobs."

It's a shame. UConn got a huge build-out after WWII because of the money pumped in via the GI Bill. Most all of those facilities were built to last, and are still in use today. Many of my profs got educated on the GI Bill after Korea or Vietnam.

BTW despite what many think, Connecticut has a lot more gun makers than butter makers. CT has Pratt and Whitney, Electric Boat (Submarines), Sikorsky (Helicopters), and was the birthplace of Colt Firearms and the Winchester rifle.

And if our conservative friends dislike the auto unions, they'll really hate the ones at places like PW, EB or Sikorsky. Those defense funded unions make the auto workers look like the pinnacle of productivity.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3380 posts, RR: 9
Reply 48, posted (2 years 5 months 16 hours ago) and read 961 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
Cutting government services at the same time as increasing defense spending is not going to be popular with the independents or the Tea Party folks either.

I'm cynical and think the tea party doesn't really care, if they really were consistent with their message they would have demanded Bush pay for his expansion of government as well. If Romney wins they will go away.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 7):
So much for the experienced businessman knowing what it takes to get the country's fiscal house in order.

He was good at making money, he didn't make anything or provide a service to anyone. There is a place for companies like Bain capital in the economy but they don't make anything and they aren't focused on sustainability. Government should be looking at the long term more than anyone. I actually think Romney would govern pretty well if his history is any record, however what I do fear is essentially president Eric Cantor (because the house will have free rein).

If you want a good businessman running things then pick someone like Tim Cook who actually produces something. Heck Trump would be better with business skills as his enterprise at least provided a service.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 11):
More tea people than anyone. They want all them terrorists dead so Christian loving Americans can be safe from Muslim terrorists.

I want to be safe from all terrorists and at the same time do not worry about them. Christians have the ability to be just as dangerous as Muslims in all aspects.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 12):
How come the US got the first credit downgrade in US history on HIS watch?

It's his fault as well as congresses.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 17):
True. He is the top boss and has to take responsibility. The warning signs of a credit downgrade were present during that debacle.

Yes he does.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 22):
How is it effectively getitng worse than it was under Reagen? Back then we lived under the constant threat of Nuclear war.

To be fair that fear was present 20-30 years before Reagan as well.

Quoting tugger (Reply 33):
Ummm.... do you REALLY think it was because of President Obama and something he was in control of? It was because S&P had become a joke, they got fried burned with the ridiculous ratings they had been giving out for what turned out to be unworthy and so decided (quite boldly) to revise the biggest fish first since they were given an out with the dysfunction in the legislature. It was a perfect target.

I tend to agree any company that rates Mortgage backed securities AAA, should have its findings questioned every time.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 43):
I don't support it, but conservatives do. That's why they spend all their time on "defending the border" and having police demand papers. Neither of these things solves the illegal immigrant problem and conservatives know it. It's just a distraction.

Both sides want illegal immigration, democrats get potential new voters and Republicans get cheap un regulated labour. If they weren't wanted they wouldn't be here, simple as that.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 32):
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 32):
Eliminating the ability to collectively bargain thereby reducing employees power to bargain for raises/benefits

For public sector unions.

I would reckon that it is against the first amendment to do it in any cases, I'm not sure what you sign away when working for a government because I have never worked for one.
Also public unions serve a good purpose for cops and firefighters because they represent police in the event of an altercation so they can have a fair investigation into their actions. Also these services are essential anyways and they are provided what I deem to be necessary services to their unions such as Trauma counciling and assistance. I think these are important things to protect for civil servants, and again cynicism talking here I think those services would be the first to go when cuts are needed if those unions are busted.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently onlineJetBlueGuy2006 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1660 posts, RR: 1
Reply 49, posted (2 years 5 months 16 hours ago) and read 946 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 4):
As for the pentagon, the cuts that Obama is set to impose on them is equally unacceptable

Obama, sure...he signed it into law, but it was passed by both a Republican House and Democratic Senate. What doesn't make sense to me is the House members that are so concerned about the cuts voted for the bill. Were they of the mind that the Supercommittee would actually work? Everyone pretty much knew it wasn't going to work from the get-go. If they didn't want it, why did they originally propose it in the bill.



Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1659 posts, RR: 2
Reply 50, posted (2 years 5 months 16 hours ago) and read 945 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 42):
Are we really trying to say that higher education should only be for the very wealthy?
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 45):
That's EXACTLY what many prominent leaders in the GOP have been trying to say. And that higher education is for the "snobs."

Step 1 of being a despot dictator: eliminate the intellectuals.

Reminds me of this guy:

Quote:
Sebastian Pinera, the president of Chile, has issued strong words to student protesters who have staged mass demonstrations to demand government-funded education, telling them "someone has to pay".

"We all want education, healthcare, and many more things for free, but I want to remind them that nothing is free in this life. Someone has to pay," said Pinera on Thursday.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2011/08/201181242948700452.html


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 51, posted (2 years 5 months 15 hours ago) and read 945 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 48):
Heck Trump would be better with business skills as his enterprise at least provided a service.

That would be when his businesses weren't going bankrupt.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 48):
I want to be safe from all terrorists and at the same time do not worry about them.

If your nation would stop interfering where it's not wanted might be a step in the right direction. If some nation in the ME wants an Islamist government, that's their business.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3380 posts, RR: 9
Reply 52, posted (2 years 5 months 15 hours ago) and read 937 times:

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 51):
If your nation would stop interfering where it's not wanted might be a step in the right direction. If some nation in the ME wants an Islamist government, that's their business.

Are you referring to Australia I live in MEL, but I'm born and raised in YYZ. I was referring to the fact that I think all terrorism is just as bad but not worth worrying about.

I do agree with your point though, all western countries should stay out of ME political affairs unless asked to intervene and even then maybe stay out.

Actually to add to this, the US media (outside of the Young Turks) never called any of the bombings of Planned Parenthood clinics that have happened in recent weeks Terrorists.

No ifs ands or buts, that is terrorism.

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 51):
That would be when his businesses weren't going bankrupt.

Good point  .

It shows terrible management when you manage to make a casino go bankrupt.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 53, posted (2 years 5 months 7 hours ago) and read 892 times:

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 52):
Are you referring to Australia I live in MEL, but I'm born and raised in YYZ. I was referring to the fact that I think all terrorism is just as bad but not worth worrying about.

Apologies, misdirected statement. Oz only has to worry about PNG I guess.

Your point about PP clinics is quite valid - it is terrorism.

Re Trump - a buffoon who has managed, IMHO, to swindle a lot of people. That he would even get ANY consideration as a presidential candidate is to me a shocking statement about the judgment of some people.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
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