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President Obama's Religion & The Deep South  
User currently offlineIllinoisMan From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 159 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

I just came across this article from about month ago and I couldn't believe the shocking numbers of what people in the Deep South think about President Obama. There was a poll conducted a few days before the Republic Presidential Primaries in Tennessee and Alabama, and the polling asked Republican voters to share their opinions about - get this - President Obama's religion? Yep, we're still there folks.

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/mar...rs-in-alabama-mississippi-20120312

"The poll of Mississippi Republicans found that 52% said they believed Obama is a Muslim, 36% weren’t sure and only 12% said they believed he is a Christian. He fared slightly better in Alabama, where 45% said he is a Muslim, 41% weren’t sure, and 14% said he is a Christian."

Only 12-14% believe that he's a Christian?! Really? Are we at a point in Mississippi and Alabama where's its not really what you believe, but its what you want to believe?

121 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11598 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

Why do we care what religion any politician is? Show me where in the Constitution that every politician HAS to be Christian or that the government endorses Christianity of some sort.

Go ahead.

I'll wait...



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinedanielmyatt From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2941 times:

It is shocking how a community can feel that much hate for a person, and be so wrong about it at the same time without any factual basis whatsoever. I mean our current government is hardly liked in many parts of the country but I doubt many people hate David Cameron, which is more to be said for a previous Tory PM, but that had a base, and it's for a different thread.

Come to think of it, our PM has to be Church of England (Protestant), Tony Blair was Catholic, but converted, then converted back after he left government. I don't think it's that much of a bother nowadays, and obviously as we have an unwritten constitution, we can't write it down. It think it was brought in with Cromwell and his anti Catholic ways, but don't quote me on that.
It seems surprising that a fairly secular country like ours has religious laws regarding our Prime Minister, but a country like the US where religion is deeply ingrained into everyday life doesn't have such a rule in its constitution.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5525 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2929 times:

Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter):
Are we at a point in Mississippi and Alabama where's its not really what you believe, but its what you want to believe?

That's always been the case, everywhere. That is why fear is such a good tool, it helps make you believe something is "wrong" even if there is nothing wrong.

Quoting danielmyatt (Reply 3):
hate

This is probably the biggest problem going on in the USA lately. Many people seem to be able to transmute their dislike of something, a person, a political party, anything really, into hatred for that thing. And it is often fed by others around to drive them in a certain direction.

There is simply no reason to hate the President, there was no real reason to hate the previous president or the ones before that. They are just people that have been elected to office, to lead the nation, to do a job. But hate is now becoming a tool to be used just like fear is, and it is being used for things where hate is not deserved.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19614 posts, RR: 58
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2924 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 2):
Why do we care what religion any politician is? Show me where in the Constitution that every politician HAS to be Christian or that the government endorses Christianity of some sort.
Quote:
ARTICLE VI: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

My emphasis added.

I consider these people to be un-American, anti-American, disloyal to the Constitution and the Republic that it defines, and a danger to national security and the security of democracy itself. It's a pity that nothing can be done about it.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5525 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2913 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
I consider these people to be un-American, anti-American, disloyal to the Constitution and the Republic that it defines, and a danger to national security and the security of democracy itself. It's a pity that nothing can be done about it.

Now wait, just because they believe one thing does not mean they are applying a religious test to anything when they vote. It is not "un-American" to know what religion a President (or someone vying to be the President). Plain and simple there may be a whole bunch of people that think President Obama is a Muslim but are still voting for him because they are supportive of him, his policies, Democrats, whatever. And if they are voting against him it is just as likely for purely nonreligious reasons.

Believing that the President is Muslim is certainly not something demonstrating intelligence but it is also not demonstrating "un-Americaness".

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19614 posts, RR: 58
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2889 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 6):
Believing that the President is Muslim is certainly not something demonstrating intelligence but it is also not demonstrating "un-Americaness".

Believing that the President is a Muslim and that this makes him unfit for office (which is the implication and let's not pretend it isn't) is to deny the very Constitution itself.

[Edited 2012-04-25 18:32:05]

User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11598 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 6):
It is not "un-American" to know what religion a President (or someone vying to be the President).

It is not un-American to know what religion a politician practices. However, to vote for a politician, or against a politician, based only on what religion he or she practices is un-American IMHO. I don't care that Romney is Mormon. Not my business. I don't care that Gingrich converted to Catholisism. Not my business. It is not even my business that he is divorced twice and is with wife number three*. However, that matters to some people. Just like the perception that someone went to Harvard makes them an elitist and they must be voted against based soley on that one item.

*The laughable thing about Gingrich is he goes on and on and supports a party that goes on and on about marriage being between one man and one woman only and sees zero irony in all his divorces and philandering.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19614 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2879 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 8):
I don't care that Romney is Mormon.

I do, but only because he seems to want to make a deal of it. When you use it as a political tool, then it becomes very much a matter of public interest.

Obama rarely speaks about his religion and doesn't use it as a political tool.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 8):
It is not even my business that he is divorced twice and is with wife number three*.

It isn't our business UNTIL he starts talking about making the "sanctity of marriage" a matter of public policy. At that point, his hypocrisy is VERY MUCH our business.


User currently offlinejbirdav8r From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 4489 posts, RR: 21
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2838 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 6):
Plain and simple there may be a whole bunch of people that think President Obama is a Muslim but are still voting for him because they are supportive of him, his policies, Democrats, whatever. And if they are voting against him it is just as likely for purely nonreligious reasons.

Great, salient point.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):
Believing that the President is a Muslim and that this makes him unfit for office (which is the implication and let's not pretend it isn't) is to deny the very Constitution itself.

The survey didn't make this extrapolation. Such an interpretation falls far outside the scope of this survey.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 8):
It is not un-American to know what religion a politician practices. However, to vote for a politician, or against a politician, based only on what religion he or she practices is un-American IMHO. I don't care that Romney is Mormon. Not my business. I don't care that Gingrich converted to Catholisism. Not my business. It is not even my business that he is divorced twice and is with wife number three*. However, that matters to some people. Just like the perception that someone went to Harvard makes them an elitist and they must be voted against based soley on that one item.

I don't necessarily find it "un-American." One of the great things about America, in my opinion, is that we are free to vote for or against any political candidate for any reason we might choose...regardless of whether or not someone else might think it silly. We all use our individual brainpower to choose our own personal favored candidate.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
I consider these people to be un-American, anti-American, disloyal to the Constitution and the Republic that it defines, and a danger to national security and the security of democracy itself. I

This seems like a very extreme view. Tolerance and respect for people with differing world views are everyone's responsibility.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 5):
It's a pity that nothing can be done about it.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here but it seems nefarious. Are you suggesting we send all Southerners to gulags or something?



I got my head checked--by a jumbo jet
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19614 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2827 times:

Quoting jbirdav8r (Reply 10):

I'm not sure what you're getting at here but it seems nefarious. Are you suggesting we send all Southerners to gulags or something?

No, it's a pity that politicians fear churches and that the legal system cannot be used to forcibly remove churches from politics. It is what was intended by the first amendment and it has been completely circumvented by Big Money Religion.

Quoting jbirdav8r (Reply 10):
This seems like a very extreme view. Tolerance and respect for people with differing world views are everyone's responsibility.

I have no tolerance for intolerance. I do not have to tolerate someone using someone else's PRIVATE religious beliefs and behaviors as a criterion for employment any more than I have to tolerate people using someone else's race in such a manner.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2824 times:

Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter):
Only 12-14% believe that he's a Christian?! Really? Are we at a point in Mississippi and Alabama where's its not really what you believe, but its what you want to believe?

Does it really matter if stupid rednecks don't vote for him because they think he's a Muslim or because he's black?



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineNW747400 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2813 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 7):

I don't get that from the article. I think it would be reasonable to think that some might not vote for him because they believe he is Muslim but that is entirely different than saying he is unfit for office. Also I don't think it is un-American to vote or not vote for someone based on religion. As an American you have the right to choose who to vote for based on eye color if you so desire. That doesn't mean you should necessarily, but you should have the freedom to vote for or against a candidate based on what in your mind are the most important characteristics of a good leader without being ridiculed as Un-American. On a side note calling someone un-American is an ad hominem that is used by both sides when they don't have a leg to stand on so to speak.

NW747400


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11598 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2804 times:

Quoting jbirdav8r (Reply 10):
We all use our individual brainpower to choose our own personal favored candidate.

But that's just it: Some people unplug their brains and just start voting.

Quoting jbirdav8r (Reply 10):
Are you suggesting we send all Southerners to gulags or something?

How about removing all religion from politics? Right-wingers hate government regulating every corner of our lives, so why not this?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2456 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2789 times:

Quoting IllinoisMan (Thread starter):
Only 12-14% believe that he's a Christian?! Really? Are we at a point in Mississippi and Alabama where's its not really what you believe, but its what you want to believe?

Exactly who is stunned by this? I'm pretty sure Mississippi and Alabama rank as some of the poorest states in terms of wealth and their educational system. I consider myself a moderate Republican, but unless you have been living in a cave the past 4 years it has been obvious the Republicans in these deep southern states live in some alternate fact free universe. In regards to these polling numbers I think it might be fair to play the race card...



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19614 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2778 times:

Quoting NW747400 (Reply 13):

I don't get that from the article. I think it would be reasonable to think that some might not vote for him because they believe he is Muslim but that is entirely different than saying he is unfit for office.

Judging someone based on their private religious beliefs is WRONG.

This would come out very differently if people thought he were secretly a Jew. But it's OK to rag on Muslims these days. That sort of vilification leads to holocausts and "ethnic cleansings" and I do not have to tolerate it.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13095 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2681 times:

Those with beliefs that President Obama is not a Christian but a Muslim, are almost always white suggesting that racism is more of a factor but using faith beliefs as a cover.

User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2722 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2662 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
Quote:ARTICLE VI: The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

You misunderstand or intentionally misapply the intent of this. Article VI does not apply to the states or to the people. It applies to the federal government so that they shall not literally apply a "test" or "oath" to run for office.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
Believing that the President is a Muslim and that this makes him unfit for office (which is the implication and let's not pretend it isn't) is to deny the very Constitution itself.

Wrong again. As a citizen there is nothing that we cannot apply when it comes to our vote.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
No, it's a pity that politicians fear churches and that the legal system cannot be used to forcibly remove churches from politics. It is what was intended by the first amendment and it has been completely circumvented by Big Money Religion.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
Judging someone based on their private religious beliefs is WRONG.

Why? It can go along way in telling what they might do in office. There where plenty who judged Bush on his beliefs. What about all the rabid rantings against Santorum? Religious Tests?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
I have no tolerance for intolerance
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
and I do not have to tolerate it.

Which makes you the same as the very people you are railing against.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3063 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2661 times:

Quoting jbirdav8r (Reply 9):
I don't necessarily find it "un-American." One of the great things about America, in my opinion, is that we are free to vote for or against any political candidate for any reason we might choose...regardless of whether or not someone else might think it silly. We all use our individual brainpower to choose our own personal favored candidate.

The problem is that ever since 9/11 anyone who is not white and doesn't have an American surname is considered suspicious. And unless that person ranks with the GOP, then that person is often unfit to even be American. To this day, the birther movement is still active even after Hawaii released his birth certificate. Not only that, since he has the middle name "Hussein" and a last name "Obama" (which people quickly assume it means Muslim from Africa), they think he's sympathetic with terrorists and/or linked with them.

Every time I travel to the states, specifically Southern states, I go with my passport. It is the only way I can prove my citizenship. Having Spanish surnames, I sometimes think I might be detained for being "an illegal immigrant". I'm not white, not born/raised in the states, and I'm not your typical Christian either.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
Does it really matter if stupid rednecks don't vote for him because they think he's a Muslim or because he's black?

It does. That's discrimination. Their only loophole is that absolutely no one will know where they put the X on the ballot (if they put it). The vote (for an incumbent president) has to be solely based on:
1. The job he's done so far
2. If he does not share most of your ideals

And you want to know what the ironic part is? These people yell foul if you call them rednecks on the grounds that that is racist.

People here need to learn how to vote. Being a Democrat, if I could vote, I would judge both candidates and would be willing to cross party lines if the opponent does a better job of convincing me. Right now, Romney WAS likable at first, but ever since he's gone WAY down. Do I care if he's Mormon? No. As long as his religion doesn't dictate my way of life, I couldn't care less if he was Muslim, atheist, Buddhist, etc. But if I thought he was the better candidate (in every aspect), why shouldn't I give Romney my vote?



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3363 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2652 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 1):
Why do we care what religion any politician is? Show me where in the Constitution that every politician HAS to be Christian or that the government endorses Christianity of some sort.

Most of them have been, and its a Toss up on whether that streak ends in November.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 6):
Believing that the President is a Muslim and that this makes him unfit for office (which is the implication and let's not pretend it isn't) is to deny the very Constitution itself.

First of all these people are idiots and I bet they couldn't find their state on a map of the US.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 7):
It is not un-American to know what religion a politician practices. However, to vote for a politician, or against a politician, based only on what religion he or she practices is un-American IMHO.

It's done though as Windy95 said it can be used against you by voters and it was a big reason Bush got re-elected in 2004 as he made gay marriage a huge issue (that wasn't the only reason but it was one them). I would bet that if Chris Christie ran and no doubt would be a solid GOP candidate, his weight would hurt him with voters. It's a sad fact about humans is that we are shallow and subconsciously like attractive people more.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
Obama rarely speaks about his religion and doesn't use it as a political tool.

He keeps his mouth shut because I bet he thinks the whole thing is a piece on nonsense, He probably is the first atheist president he will just never admit it.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
Does it really matter if stupid rednecks don't vote for him because they think he's a Muslim or because he's black?

Lets be real its because he is black that these people don't like him, now that's not why everyone doesn't like him. People in these state know that saying you don't like black people is not good so they just make another excuse to not like him.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 18):
Right now, Romney WAS likable at first, but ever since he's gone WAY down. Do I care if he's Mormon?

I actually think Romney would govern pretty well on how he thinks and he is centre right initially. However what I fear and think will happen is he will be a puppet a much more right wing congress than he is.

The same cannot be said about Obama he (probably to his detriment) was to eager to compromise and probably could have been Nancy Pelosi's puppet a bit more as it would have lead to more centrist compromises which is where most people are.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5400 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2630 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 4):
I consider these people to be un-American, anti-American, disloyal to the Constitution and the Republic that it defines, and a danger to national security and the security of democracy itself. It's a pity that nothing can be done about it.

Doc, you need to remember that the Constitution restrains the government. It does not restrain the people. Folks can, and will, use a religious test when voting for someone. It's that simple. I don't see it any different than voting for someone who is pro-abortion vs. someone who is pro-life. You are voting for someone whose beliefs, political and non-political, are closest to yours.

As for me, I could give a rat's ass if the guy worships mice from Mars; if his political beliefs are aligned with mine, he may get my vote. And, to be clear, Obama will not get my vote because his political beliefs are nowhere near mine and Romney will get my vote because his politically beliefs closely match mine.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 8):
I do, but only because he seems to want to make a deal of it.

The media and the Democratic Party are making a big deal about it. He responds. My guess is that he'd be just as happy not talking about it.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
I have no tolerance for intolerance.

So, you are intolerant.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 18):
The problem is that ever since 9/11 anyone who is not white and doesn't have an American surname is considered suspicious.

And, that's why Barack Obama got elected??? Because we are suspicious of foreign sounding names?

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 18):
It does. That's discrimination

You do realize everyone discriminates when they vote. We discriminate based on political beliefs. Some discriminate on religion, and yes, some discriminate on race. But, it is the right of the elector to discriminate based on whatever factor he wants, whether it's rational or not. They say Kennedy won because he was better on camera than Nixon.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 19):
Most of them have been, and its a Toss up on whether that streak ends in November.

So, which one do you think is not a Christian?

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 19):
Lets be real its because he is black that these people don't like him, now that's not why everyone doesn't like him.

Why is it that folks can not accept the fact that the dislike of Mr. Obama is largely based on his policies and not on his race? Yes, there are some folks out there that vote with eyes and not their heads...but they are in the minority...otherwise Mr. Obama would not have been elected in the first place.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3063 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 20):
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 18):
The problem is that ever since 9/11 anyone who is not white and doesn't have an American surname is considered suspicious.

And, that's why Barack Obama got elected??? Because we are suspicious of foreign sounding names?

No. He won because 8 years of Republican leadership were more than enough and he offered an alternative. Had the 8 years the GOP was in power were good years (as in good economic growth, unemployment less than 4%, etc.) , you can bet McCain would have won the elections or at least narrow the gap from Obama's 365 electoral votes. But Obama's candidacy has never been without controversy and up to this day people still believe in that. It took Hawaii's release of his long-form birth certificate to convince many that he was a natural born US citizen with Kenyan ancestry.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 20):
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 18):
It does. That's discrimination

You do realize everyone discriminates when they vote. We discriminate based on political beliefs.

And that's why we vote (emphasis added). But to vote based on religious beliefs or race is plain wrong. Race and religion doesn't define a person's ability to lead effectively (as long as he doesn't use race or religion as an excuse for his policies). Obama might be African American, but he has not governed solely for that community. He's a Christian and yet he has demonstrated tolerance for those who don't share his beliefs. The GOP today has yet to prove that to me and the poll released confirms that people still harbor a hatred (or at least resent) having a leader that is:
1. Not white
2. Of Kenyan ancestry
3. Tolerant of other beliefs and willing to separate religious beliefs from the government.

I wonder, had Obama been named Steve Michael Obama, would people think he's Muslim?



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineronglimeng From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 625 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 2611 times:

Quoting danielmyatt (Reply 2):
... to think of it, our PM has to be Church of England (Protestant)

I believe you are wrong there, it is the Monarch who has to be C of E (Defender of the Faith, etc,etc). This latter has implications for Canada as indirectly our Head of State thus has to be C of E too.

All this talk of politicians' religion is mostly eyewash. A really religious person probably wouldn't bother with politics, they'd probably be insufferable if they did anyway. I think most politicians pack religion as part of their image just as they do the attractive, supportive wife and 2 children.

As long as a politician doesn't get too gungho about his "faith", he shouldn't have too much trouble with the electorate.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7312 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2590 times:

But who really knows for sure he's not a closet muslim, his father was and he did go to school in Indonesia, both those facts are pretty good pointers for folks who believe Obama is muslim. Lets face facts if he was a practicing muslim there is no way in hell he would get elected.

User currently offlineNW747400 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2585 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 17):
Why? It can go along way in telling what they might do in office. There where plenty who judged Bush on his beliefs. What about all the rabid rantings against Santorum? Religious Tests?

Absolutely. A person's religious beliefs can say a lot about what values they hold most dear. Because of this a person's religion CAN say something about how they would govern and conduct themselves in office. I'm supposed to vote for who best represents me and someone who is the same religion as I am more times than not represents my beliefs better than someone of a different religion. I'm not saying I would never vote for someone of a different religion or that religion should necessarily be the deciding factor, but I am saying that pretending that a person's religion has no effect on how they govern is naive.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 19):
He keeps his mouth shut because I bet he thinks the whole thing is a piece on nonsense, He probably is the first atheist president he will just never admit it.

That is what I think. I think he is an atheist/agnostic but he knows that he could never get elected if he acknowledged that fact.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 20):
So, you are intolerant.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that saw the irony in that statement!

NW747400


25 Post contains images Rara : There's a silver lining about that news. It implies that a Muslim president in America may not be as far off the line as people may think. You'd thin
26 windy95 : Sorry but that never happened. Hawaii did not release the original long form. Obama released a alleged copy of it. Let's be real you have no clue to
27 fr8mech : That is why the other party normally gets elected. The people are fed up with the party or person currently in office. But, that doesn't square with
28 seb146 : And, according to Snopes, it is real. Their private education system is great. This is the problem come November: The right wants to privatized every
29 Post contains images aloges : That's because there aren't any actual "leftists" in the running, or none with any hopes of getting more than maybe 1% of the vote.
30 bjorn14 : No, they just believe Øbama is a lying about his religion. I actually like his black African half, it's the white European socialist half I can't st
31 aloges : First, the birthers demanded the birth certificate, then they demanded a different form of it, now you demand an examination by the Supreme Court. Do
32 fr8mech : So. I studied The Bible, and at best, I'm a non-practicing, Catholic Church (because the kids are in the school) going, Greek Orthodox Christian. In
33 einsteinboricua : They want a holy sign that says the certificate is real. They're most likely waiting for an angel to drop from the sky bearing a message from God con
34 Post contains images aloges : Well, the things I read about Jesus in the Bible don't exactly adhere to Republican standards - turn the other cheek vs. castle laws, for example. So
35 Post contains images Ken777 : You're taling about Mississippi. Anything is possible there, especially when discussing people of color. And, let's face it, the Bubba Factor that fil
36 aloges : Just take Planned Parenthood as an example. The three to four hundred millions that it receives from the government are a "funding issue" to republic
37 DocLightning : They did. In 2008. And they cleared it. His mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of his birth, so whether he was born in Hawaii, Memphis, Tora Bora,
38 aloges : There is no irony in intolerance towards the intolerant. If you don't fight intolerance and refute those who teach it, you will lose your freedom.
39 BMI727 : It's no surprise at all. It seems like every other week there is another study showing that Southerners are poor and stupid. You can't suggest tellin
40 seb146 : No, but making it an issue for political debate is another story. If people want to vote a strict Catholic ticket, fine. I think that is stupid, but
41 fr8mech : No, neither you nor I have to tolerate these behaviours. But, we do have to tolerate their right to exist and spew their hate. That is the country we
42 aloges : You may have to tolerate their right, but you certainly don't have to tolerate their actions - it is well within your rights to refute them, expose t
43 Mir : It certainly does. The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judici
44 NW747400 : That's fine. You are well within your rights to do that just don't feed me a bunch of BS about how tolerant and open minded you are. You are only tol
45 Mir : Nothing Aloges said implied any intolerance whatsoever. Tolerance does not mean agreement. -Mir
46 Post contains links Dreadnought : No surprise. Here is a Pew Research report from last month that shows that Liberals (who call themselves tolerant and conservatives as intolerant) ar
47 Post contains links StarAC17 : I think Obama is a secret non-believer and padering to make everyone believe otherwise. I'm not saying there are not people who dislike Obama because
48 Mir : I'd tend to agree, but in a sort of roundabout way. It's a lot easier to be seen disliking someone because they're a Muslim than it is to be seen dis
49 NW747400 : I did not mean to say Aloges was intolerant I was referring to Doc's reply in which he admits to being intolerant. Also I am not claiming to have a p
50 MD-90 : Frankly I don't care to get involved in this because no one wins when arguing on the internet but so far in this thread I see that I am the only perso
51 ROSWELL41 : Actually on that point, respectfully, you are totally (partially) incorrect. John McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone (which was entirely inside
52 aloges : It would be such an improvement if everyone realised that dividing people into just these two categories is counterproductive.
53 seb146 : And we all know you can trust every letter of every word ever written on every social networking site...
54 Post contains images aloges : It is like judging the state of society from the comments on YouTube.
55 TSS : From the linked article: "The PPP poll used automated telephone interviews on March 10-11 to survey 1,256 likely Republican voters in Mississippi and
56 StarAC17 : It is still prejudice, is it really any better to attack someone for their alleged faith vs their skin colour??
57 bjorn14 : Got a source for that? I never heard that the USSC has even acknowledged it let alone 'cleared it' The issue for both McCain and Øbama is whether th
58 ltbewr : As I said earlier, many who believe Pres. Obama is of the Muslim faith, are probably using that to cover their racism. That belief isn't just found in
59 einsteinboricua : I would also like to add that having studied in Indonesia would be considered a plus for him. How many people can say they've studied abroad?
60 Mir : In my mind? Not really. In the minds of those who believe he's a Muslim? Yeah, I'd bet they think of it that way. Or at least they see it as less con
61 DocLightning : And American father. But I also thought he was born on a U.S. Base. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, he wasn't born in the US (he will tell you himself i
62 fr8mech : I'll buy that. Really? Unfortunately? Those nations that outlaw hate speech or hate groups haven't eliminated those groups, they've driven them under
63 MD-90 : If aliens came to earth and did that they would kill us all without remorse.
64 einsteinboricua : Ah, but having been born in a place that was already a state should raise no doubts over being born in a territory under US jurisdiction. That's the
65 Ken777 : We might not have a history that qualifies as genocide, but the horrid bases towards non-whites by groups like the KKK is a pretty dark time in our c
66 ltbewr : What about Indian/Native/Pre-European persons throughout the Americas and especially in what came to be the USA ? Millions murdered buy government ar
67 SSTeve : There were reports that he was born in a hospital outside the canal zone in Colon, and there's not necessarily a local record of his birth. His campa
68 CPH-R : I don't know about the USSC (and how would they be able to do so anyway?), but the state of Hawaii have confirmed repeatedly, that the birth certific
69 GBLKD : Sadly Doc that's not true, concentration camps were "invented" by the British during the second Boer War. A shameful policy that many believe gave Hi
70 seb146 : No, people would still vote keeping religion in mind. That is not really an issue. What is an issue is the media has become pushed so far to the righ
71 bjorn14 : The Naval hospital was not yet built in PCZ when McCain was born. He was born at the public hospital in Colon about a kilometer from the base. It's a
72 fr8mech : I believe the speech is protected. It's when the speech results in violence that it becomes a factor. Hate crimes legislation...another topic for ano
73 MD-90 : Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others.
74 MD-90 : Not when compared to Russia, China, Japan, and Germany.
75 seb146 : Americans go around acting like nothing even remotely similar has ever happened here. No, not as bad as other countries, but slavery and no rights fo
76 Post contains links bjorn14 : Some people believe that 'natural born' means two citizen parents and born on US soil. Øbama's father was a British subject at the time and never be
77 akiss20 : Also Japanese internment in WWII and treatment of native americans, things people seem to forget about...
78 fr8mech : Not a lawyer, but my guess is that since the alleged 'hate speech' was directed at an individual and not a group, the charge of harassment can be mad
79 IMissPiedmont : I agree totally. I wait for the day a poiltician has the courage to refuse to answer such questions. I'll be long dead before it happens but I'll wai
80 fr8mech : Agreed.
81 Dreadnought : I know an awful lot of Republicans, and I live in the Deep South. I haven't heard anyone mention Romney's religion as being a problem. Where was that
82 raffik : Why is it always the religious nuts who do not like him? From what I've read and heard about the people who live in the "Deep South", they are a bunch
83 einsteinboricua : That's generalizing a bit. There are plenty of people who are NOT like that. Unfortunately, we only get to hear about those who are.
84 bjorn14 : Until you have personally met a large statistical sample from the "Deep South" I would suggest that you follow the old axiom..."It is better to be th
85 slider : I think Obama's past is very much subject for vetting since it wasn't in the first election. It's reasonable to say that you don't sit in radical jer
86 aloges : Why don't you say that to the face of a Muslim serviceman (or woman, of course) risking his life in the American forces? I'd be interested in the res
87 slider : Taqiyya...nothing more.. Just because they're confused about their faith or don't understand what it calls for doesn't mean I don't understand it. An
88 aloges : How do you know what's on the minds of all Muslims serving in the US military? You have also had numerous mass murdering sociopaths of other or no fa
89 einsteinboricua : Have you ever thought about moderate to liberal Muslims? That's stereotyping right there. There might be a president who, while a Muslim or Atheist o
90 slider : I don't. But I do know the history of Islam and I'd say that the lessons of nearly 14 centuries are pretty clear to draw some conclusions. This is tr
91 Mudboy : Let me just say the I am very disappointed in my fellow Mississippians, but not surprised. We are not all a bunch of uneducated, uncultured, racist,
92 slider : Who's being racial by making this blanket judgment?
93 GBLKD : Death penalty for a start debunks that statement. Jesus Christ, who Christianity takes it's name from was executed, you think he'd support the needle
94 aloges : So why did you say that a Muslim's service in the US forces is "Taqiyya...nothing more.."? The history of 20 centuries of Christianity isn't exactly
95 Post contains images ATTart :
96 einsteinboricua : Well, for starters, Christianity doesn't have a peaceful history either, and so far, it hasn't had one either. The fact that the Church doesn't publi
97 Mudboy : You are saying I am being racial, because I know how my friends and people where I live think? I guess you focused on only what you wanted to hear, a
98 bjorn14 : ...and that's the REAL problem with Øbama....he doesn't
99 CPH-R : That's a bold statement. Care to back that up with evidence?
100 Post contains links ATTart : N.C. Preacher Tells Parents to Crack Wrists, Punch Effeminate Children http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfOr8rnc6Yk
101 Flighty : What about Romney? Right-wing Christians okay with the Mormon church ?!?!? Depending on my race+class, I can start a totally blasphemous religion and
102 aloges : Has he been arrested for inciting violence against children?
103 ATTart : No, he has not.
104 aloges : Well, I certainly hope he will be. That sort of sermon can get children killed.
105 ATTart : [quote=aloges,reply=104]Well, I certainly hope he will be. That sort of sermon can get children killed. I so hope he is, however I doubt he will be!
106 bjorn14 : 1st President to sign an Executive Order sealing all his and his mother's records after declaring to have the most transparent administration in the
107 einsteinboricua : Oh dear! He's clearly fanning the flames of ire especially after a third showdown almost loomed to the world scenario. Like the GOP did so much bette
108 Post contains images CPH-R : Though I will add one thing... Starting off with a blatant lie is not a good way to make an impression. Executive Order 13489, signed by President Ob
109 Dreadnought : I noticed that you pick and chose which ones to answer and ignore all the others. Some of the items are, yes, either overstated or distorted. But a l
110 Post contains images aloges : How would the US pay for another large space programme? By going back to the federal income tax levels of the 1960s?
111 Post contains links Dreadnought : Are you aware that from 1945 until now that Federal Revenue has been relatively constant, between 16 and 19% of GDP (with the odd peak and trough). T
112 aloges : That was the decade of the Apollo programme, so let's compare the current level to that. It was 15.4% in 2011. Are you seriously suggesting that this
113 bjorn14 : From Executive Order 13489: Sec. 3. Claim of Executive Privilege by Incumbent President. (a) Upon receipt of a notice of intent to disclose President
114 Dreadnought : The current decline is because the Federal government taxes earnings and profit. A lot of people earned less money and businesses lost big money in 2
115 einsteinboricua : The ones I'm ignoring are because I have nothing to back up a counter-argument or because I recognize that they are true. I may be passionate about p
116 DocLightning : No he has not. And he will not. This is "freedom of speech," a right that is being increasingly abused by those who seem to admire a former political
117 Post contains links NoUFO : I really don't wish to interfere, but that was something he said during a campaign speech not when he was president. And as a matter of fact he did t
118 Post contains images StarAC17 : It was created with the bible in mind, the bible is supposed to be ignored because it hasn't been used for democracy and freedom in history. It has b
119 DocLightning : Very well-said. And it is also worth pointing out that MOST of these democracies were rebellions against Christianity-based dictatorships. Even the U
120 CPH-R : With minor changes, this is the exact same wording found in Executive Order 12667 of January 18, 1989. The bolded line was deleted in the EO signed b
121 seb146 : After two wars started under the right-wing controlled House and right-wing president who's spending were all off budget. Because of years of "voodoo
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