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Are You Patriotic?  
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3010 posts, RR: 9
Posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 2072 times:

I grew up in a very patriotic family. Every year, on the 4th of July, my grandfather would read us the Declaration of Independance. He would remind us never to take for granted our freedoms.

And I never have.

What's odd is that many think I am a Republican because I am patriotic (as if the definition of democrat is to be cynical and against the government).

Who else here is patriotic for your home country?


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekiwiinoz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2165 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2063 times:

I have massive love for my home country. The relationship and reasons are very personal as it relates to subtle nuances of the people, culture, history, and land that have a specific appeal to me. As this love is exclusive to me, I do not expect others to feel the same way. I don't even expect others to love it at all, (or at least don't really care). This is at odds with many of my countrymen, who seem to be on a lifelong mission to try and prove to the world that NZ is really something special. Personally I would prefer that it's kept secret!!

Is this patriotism? I'm not sure. Probably no. Patriotism to me implies a more collectivist psyche, rallying around things like the declaration of independance or shared experiences. I think I only experience this when watching our rugby team play, (or our Cricket team.....but this usually erodes our sense of patriotism)


User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2010 times:

I'm not patriotic. Well, not much - I'm glad of my political freedom and I live in a first world country. I'm not a fan of some of the people in the country though, especially the moron running it. I do consider myself English - not British.

At risk of opening a massive can of worms here - it seems some people in the UK take patriotism as racism against immigrants. Maybe it's just me, but that's my thought on it.


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3829 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2007 times:

I'm not "patriotic" because it seems far too much like a religion to me.

User currently offlinespeedbird217 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2012, 328 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1955 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 2):
it seems some people in the UK take patriotism as racism against immigrants

It's the same in Germany. Probably even worse. The World Cup 2006 changed things a little, but there are still Germans that are offended if they see a German flag. That's just stupid. Aside from the fact that patriotism in Germany is virtually non-existent, I have nothing really to identify with in Germany. I feel a stranger in my own country and get along way better with people from the UK and the US.

I lived in the US for a while and I would say that I was patriotic there. I felt home there from day one, have loads of American friends, had a traditional American Thanksgiving in a family and so on...
My plan is to go back anyway, and stay for good. So I would say that I am patriotic - but only for America, even though I wasn't born there. Love the country, the people and their identity, and I felt like I belong there for the first time in my life.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1951 times:

I am somewhat proud, or better said, glad to be German, but patriotic in an oldfashioned sense, no. Patriotism is often close to chauvinism, and many so-called patriots are not very tolerant to foreigners and think they are a better kind of people. I put a little german flag on top of my TV during football world cups, but thats it.

User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3829 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1924 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 2):
it seems some people in the UK take patriotism as racism against immigrants.

My personal issue with it (the concept of modern patriotism) is that you can see it routinely being used as a weapon to silence dissenters and those who don't agree with someones opinion.

For example, in the US if you don't support the troops, you are unpatriotic - and a lot of people are easily cast as not supporting the troops when infact its the wars the troops are fighting that they don't support. So the cries of patriotism are being used to try to force people to either support a particular opinion or silence them from the debate.

Lots of examples like that.


User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2215 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1909 times:

Every time I cut a goddamned check to the IRS and DC government I'm patriotic.


oh boy!!!
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7915 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1905 times:

I am pleased to be European, pleased to be German.

My 'patriotism' can be seen in the fact that I wish those who moved from e.g. Spain to Germany during the recent economic crisis well. I hope they get along well with customs and habits, the language, the cuisine and the weather.
At the same time I hope Spain and other countries recover quickly.

I want Europe to be (at least one of) the best place(s) to live in which is probably already the case, but there is certainly room for improvements. I want Europe to be an engine for science, freedom, human rights, protection of the environment, and - not to forget - savoir-vivre.

And if Canada, Australia or the U.S. scores better: Cheers to you and a tip at the hat.

If you call that patriotism, I am fine with that.



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1860 times:

My father and two of his brothers served in combat in WWII.

My mother's brother was killed in Belgium in Feb 1945 while in the US Army.

Most of my older male cousins served in either the Army or National Guard, though one was a USMC F-4 B/N for five years.

I joined the US Navy in 1972, and served until I retired in 1992. I had the pleasure of serving ashore with the Marines in Lebanon for much of the later half of 1983.

My son was in the US Army from 1997-2003 and has a combat disability after coming home from Iraq. My daughter married a US Army vet.

My grandsons and granddaughters have been raised to respect the US military and two want to serve when they are old enough.

I don't know if that makes us patriotic, but I've seen violent changes of government, countries where people starving is normal, supposedly free major nations where different political views are suppressed and people are shunned.

The United States is not a perfect nation - and in my opinion the increasing polarization of the people trying to exclude others from our nation is a dangerous trend.

But it is still the best in the world in my opinion, and I and my family stand by this nation, our president - whether or not we voted for him - and our people.

I consider myself a political conservative - and some folks one issue folks don't.

I don't care because I believe in the oath I took to defend this nation and its constitution.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8710 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1858 times:

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 2):
At risk of opening a massive can of worms here - it seems some people in the UK take patriotism as racism against immigrants. Maybe it's just me, but that's my thought on it.

There is a big difference between patriotism and nationalism.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3840 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1840 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
There is a big difference between patriotism and nationalism

Unfortunately, too many people tend to forget that, and see the two as synonyms--especially in our current state of political discourse.


User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1832 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
There is a big difference between patriotism and nationalism.

I know that but unfortunately, a lot of people (especially immigrants) don't.

There were immigrants who burned poppies on Remembrance Sunday a few years ago. Completely distasteful yet because they were immigrants it was "ok" because it's a sin to lay the law down if they're an immigrant because it's automatically racist  

I'm not a racist in anyway shape or form, but if you are going to disrespect my country because you don't like it, you know where Dover is. I hate it.


User currently offlinekngkyle From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 368 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1784 times:

I'm patriotic but not to the point where I'm ignorant in believing the US is #1 in everything, like many Americans seem to think...

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31568 posts, RR: 57
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1772 times:

Lets say I'm patriotic, because I love my country but Im also realistic to know its limitations.


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18678 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1708 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
There is a big difference between patriotism and nationalism.

Out of curiosity, where do you draw the line?

I once remember GWB saying that he'd never apologize for the United States. My answer is: "What if we did something wrong?"

There is something I call fundamentalist patriotism. That's the view that your country can do no wrong and that it is a priori the best country in the world. There is a LOT of fundamentalist patriotism in the USA and that general sentiment really hampers our international relations.


User currently online2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8018 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1702 times:

I am patriotic and I love the United States of America and all good that she stands for.

My patriotism is more within. My stand with this country is not jingoistic, not political, not religious, not for product advertising not about assimilation for the sake of assimilation and is not about draping everything with Old Glory or supporting anti flag burning measurements though I am the last guy who would ever want to burn one.

It is (in my view) about to freedom to associate peaceably, freedom of religion and from religion, freedom of responsible speech whether I like it or not and freedom of the individual person to own, to do, to like or dislike and be who you are and be what you want to be.



"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8488 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1682 times:
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Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 14):
Lets say I'm patriotic, because I love my country but Im also realistic to know its limitations.

That sums up my feelings as well. I get very disturbed by the 'My country, right or wrong' attitude that some people seem to see patriotism as ( usually conveniently forgetting that the full quote is "my country, right or wrong, if right, to be kept right, if wrong , to be set right' ) . One of the great things about being in my country is that I have the right ( perhaps even a duty) to speak up if I think we are doing something wrong.

Flag waving , under the guise of patriotism, always makes me feel a bit uncomfortable, it just seems a lazy knee jerk action .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18678 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1668 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 17):

Flag waving , under the guise of patriotism, always makes me feel a bit uncomfortable, it just seems a lazy knee jerk action .

Hardly, it's usually an aggressive action, like Bible-thumping.

"You're going to do it my way and agree with me or you're un-American."


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8710 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1656 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15):
There is something I call fundamentalist patriotism. That's the view that your country can do no wrong and that it is a priori the best country in the world. There is a LOT of fundamentalist patriotism in the USA and that general sentiment really hampers our international relations.

That's more along the lines of nationalism. There is some of that, but there is also the other kind too.

Let's say your daughter gets into trouble. It's her own fault - she got careless, did something stupid, but by God she is your daughter and you would do anything you possibly can to help her out, in spite of the fact that you know perfectly well that she deserved it. That's patriotism. It's not blind, but it's love.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineStratofish From Germany, joined Sep 2001, 1050 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1656 times:

Not patriotic at all, Patriotism is a strange concept to me that I just cannot grasp. I don't know but I am just not proud of "my country" not because I despise where I live but because this country is not my own accomplishment, if you understand what I mean.

A flag to me is just that, a piece of cloth. I have never ever felt something or shivered at the sight of a flag. I do not think it is right to burn flags as a sign of disapproval but if you want to go burn the German flag go right ahead, I am really not bothered at all.

That said I feel strangely well, saying I am European and don't say anything against my hometown.  
Quoting zrs70 (Thread starter):
He would remind us never to take for granted our freedoms.

And I never have.

Nothing wrong with that, but I don't know if appreciation of democracy makes one a patriot. I DO appreciate living in a free democratic society but I am hardly a patriot.



The Metro might be the Sub(optimal)way
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8044 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1648 times:

I'm patriotic, but in a quiet way.

I served in the Navy for 4 years and consider it to be as important as anything I have done in life.

I also believe we are one Nation. I served in the US Navy, not the Texas Navy (I was born in Texas), nor the Oklahoma Navy (where I entered the service from).

I'm not a excited flag waver, and I tend to get rather angry at those who wrap themselves in the Flag to push there political demands. (You can read Tea Party into that if you want.)

I do, however, wish to have a Flag on my coffin when I go. Nothing fancy, but a reminder for all ho come to my funeral that I did love this country. Maybe it will help renew their sense of patriotism a bit.

Quoting ajd1992 (Reply 2):
I do consider myself English - not British.

I had to smile at that. My wife was born in Dundee and considers herself a Scot far more than a Brit.


User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3150 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1577 times:

Quoting zrs70 (Thread starter):
What's odd is that many think I am a Republican because I am patriotic (as if the definition of democrat is to be cynical and against the government).

Depends who is in charger - right now its the Republicans cynical and against the government.

Quoting moo (Reply 6):
For example, in the US if you don't support the troops, you are unpatriotic - and a lot of people are easily cast as not supporting the troops when infact its the wars the troops are fighting that they don't support. So the cries of patriotism are being used to try to force people to either support a particular opinion or silence them from the debate.

I believe that being a patriot is wanting what is best for your country - but we all have a difference of opinion. Some would say that OWS is patriotic while others being a pro war hawk is patriotic.

I don't believe that what the Fox News media tries to tell you as being a patriot - wrapping yourself in a flag, supporting wars and throwing the term unAmerican around at anyone who thinks differently.

I don't support my government, I don't support its wars, I don't support its methods of taxation, I don't support its bailouts of the banks and Wallstreet or its stimulus packages. I don't support its "Patriot Act" or its so called War on Terror or its Department of Homeland Security - everything has strayed way too far from the Constitution and what the founding fathers envisioned. Am I more patriotic than that chickenhawk that never put on a uniform but cheers about every Middle Eastern Country we bomb? Am I more patriotic than Sean Hannity who thinks we should waterboard everybody? Am I more patriotic than an Occupy Wallstreet Protester?

No - everyone has their own idea what they think is best for their country.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31568 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1547 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 17):
One of the great things about being in my country is that I have the right ( perhaps even a duty) to speak up if I think we are doing something wrong.

It sure is.....In a democracy its a welcome sign....



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1485 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
There is a big difference between patriotism and nationalism.

Try explaning that to some of my fellow countrymen... I am a patriotic Austrian, however, I've been looked upon as if I were a Nazi because I know all three stanzas of our national anthem. I am in no way a nationalist, national socialist, or racist - in fact, I am very pro EU (yes, still) and cannot stand the "foreigners out" campaigns of the far right political wing.



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
25 Gunsontheroof : No. Every single nation state on this planet is a temporary abberation that's going to dissappear sooner or later, so I don't see any point in attachi
26 Asturias : I am a patriot, I recognize the nation and the importance of the community I live in and deny any ideas of a "one world" a "global village" and such n
27 Dreadnought : I think there has been a concerted effort in Europe to eliminate nationalistic tendencies through the education system and media since WWII, with the
28 Confuscius : "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." --Samuel Johnson
29 Dreadnought : "Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first." --Charles de Gaulle
30 Post contains images SuperCaravelle : For myself, I have to agree with this. I am glad I live in an organized (sort of) nation, in which we have freedom of expression, religion and color.
31 kiwiandrew : That still raises the question of what is meant by 'your own people'? Who are my "own people" ? I am not sure. Are they the people, who, by accident
32 Ps76 : Hi! I'm an Assyrian living in the UK who was born in the UK and I don't feel particularly patriotic either as an Assyrian or for the country I live in
33 Bogota : Patriotism comes from being proud of the environment you are part of which in many ways represents what you are as part of a collective environment. A
34 slider : I know I'll get branded for being jingoistic or worse, but hell yeah, I'm uber-patriotic. I love this country, warts and all, I love the ideals that w
35 Aesma : I don't own anything remotely looking like a French flag, but I like seeing the colors on an Air France airliner or during a Patrouille de France show
36 connies4ever : Not particularly, except when the Olympic Hockey Tournament (the real one: Men's) is on. I'm honest enough with myself that I do not feel inhibited i
37 stasisLAX : I love my country - I (unfortunately) strongly dislike my government. No longer patriotic, now severely pragmatic. Why? NDAA and the so-called "Patrio
38 NASCARAirforce : I actually go for Team Sweden because they have the most Redwings playing for them usually. Although all that will change since Olympic hockey won't
39 Braybuddy : I love my country and people, full stop. But that does not extend to dying for it -- or even flying the flag. I have no problem with quiet patrtiotism
40 slider : That's a real shame; I often worry what, if any, long term consequences will exist as a result of subjugating people's natural national pride. In Eur
41 flanker : If you want to know what patriotism is and love for country, watch the John Adams HBO mini series. Yes I am patriotic.
42 Post contains links slider : Absolutely! One of the best clips from the series... I love this one...gives me chills. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2FAAVPX-jg
43 Post contains links flanker : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6caJ...eature=BFa&list=PL29E1EC9C3B28DB2E that one is especially good, when Adams meets Washington..."not generosi
44 NASCARAirforce : Wow with my spelling error (distruct) meant to say distrust - I am surprised I didn't have homeland security knocking on my door thinking I meant to
45 HAWK21M : Do you get a warm feeling in your chest when you hear the National Anthem play or watch the National wave. If you do.....thats a part of hidden patrio
46 connies4ever : I actually can't remember all the lyrics ((in English) to "O Canada". French, no problem. But "O Canada"'s lyrics have been changed within the past 2
47 flanker : Damn straight I do and its not hidden
48 kiwiandrew : No, but I was quite proud of my fellow countrymen and women a number of years ago when they played the national anthem at an outdoor event, and they
49 Pu : Everyone understands your point here of course. But patriotism is just one of the many emotional red herrings used to masquerade political agendas of
50 slider : Agree completely...I ended up buying it I loved it so much. It's one more reason that I love the new wave of scholarship on the Founders. And I also
51 Post contains images SHAQ : We as a country, are very patriotic! We sing the National Anthem on: Every Monday in the morning. Children from Kindergarten, and teens in high school
52 757MDE : Patriotic? Not at all.
53 PSA53 : I was once both a nationalist Californian and American as most of you know.Nowadays,I'm confused and angry of what both political parties have done t
54 flanker : Patriotism is indeed needed more than ever. It really bugs me that people don't understand the concept. That is why I love that series so much, it re
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