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Terrorist Plot Thwarted - But Homeland Sec Didn't  
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5526 posts, RR: 8
Posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2727 times:

So a plot was apparently thwarted but Homeland Security didn't have anything to do with it and in fact issued a statement that they didn't know anything and weren't aware of anything. And this is what is wrong with the transportation security to defend against actual threats in the USA.

The TSA and Homeland Sec don't do it, it is the FBI and the CIA that do the real work with intelligence networks and proactive investigations.

Quote:
U.S. and international intelligence agencies have broken up an attempt to blow up a U.S.-bound jetliner, a U.S. counterterrorism official told CNN on Monday.

"This is a success story," the U.S. official said, adding that an explosive device was recovered.

A Yemeni official told CNN the threat came around last week's one-year anniversary of the killing of Osama bin Laden. The target was not specific, the Yemeni official said.

The device has the hallmarks of previous bombing attempts by members of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula including those used in the attempted bombing of a U.S. airliner on Christmas Day in 2009 and against a senior Saudi official earlier in 2009, according to the U.S official. Both devices were associated with Ibrahim Hassan al Asiri, the official said.

The funny thing is that Homeland has issued a statement where they state they know nothing but that they must be valuable because there is a "threat".

Quote:
Matt Chandler, a spokesman for the Department of Homeland Security, released a statement saying that they had no specific threat about an active plot against the U.S.

The Department of Homeland Security statement added that the incident showed that enemies still have a high interest in targeting air transportation, which underscores the continued need for increased security at airports.

The statement reads:

“We have no specific, credible information regarding an active terrorist plot against the U.S. at this time, although we continue to monitor efforts by al-Qaeda and its affiliates to carry out terrorist attacks, both in the Homeland and abroad.
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/07...-blow-up-u-s-bound-plane-thwarted/

If they know nothing, how are they providing true value?

Tugg


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2434 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2579 times:

Yet another example that validates how useless the TSA really is.

It was stated some time ago that the approach to screening the way that the Israelis do it would be unrealistic in other countries, but adapting it in some form would be a helluva lot more affective.   



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2530 times:

Commentary on the effectiveness of the Department of Homeland Security should be in the Non-Av forum.


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2434 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2472 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 2):

Point taken. Will suggest deletion.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3070 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2448 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 1):
Yet another example that validates how useless the TSA really is.

I didn't know that was the TSA's function. The plot was thwarted long before the underwear showed up at airport security.


User currently onlinebennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7574 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 4 weeks ago) and read 2448 times:

Perhaps the DHS statement is a cunning plan.

They pretend that the DHS is useless to lure our enemies into a false sense of security.


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2166 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2255 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4):
I didn't know that was the TSA's function. The plot was thwarted long before the underwear showed up at airport security.

  
I hate the TSA as much as the next guy, but this has nothing to do with them. It is not their job to investigate potential terrorist plots, it is their job to screen passengers and luggage at the airport.


User currently offlinetharanga From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1865 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2069 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 6):
It is not their job to investigate potential terrorist plots, it is their job to screen passengers and luggage at the airport.

The point being made is that the investigation and counterintelligence ahead of time is much more effective and productive than needle-in-a-haystack screening at the airport.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25202 posts, RR: 48
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1922 times:

Last time I checked, TSA was not in the business of running spies in Yemen.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1909 times:

Quoting tharanga (Reply 7):
The point being made is that the investigation and counterintelligence ahead of time is much more effective and productive than needle-in-a-haystack screening at the airport

No security worth its name relies on a single layer. Do you lock your door at home or do you rely on the police to find every potential burglar before they get to you?


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5526 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1798 times:

To me the big issue is not TSA it is more that Homeland also didn't know anything and in fact it SHOULD know about things like this. That is its job after all.

Quoting cmf (Reply 9):
No security worth its name relies on a single layer. Do you lock your door at home or do you rely on the police to find every potential burglar before they get to you?

Do I allow the police to randomly stop and "screen" me to make sure I am not doing anything improper? Uhh no. The public can choose to lock doors or if we wish, leave them unlocked. Strangely we trust the public to do the right thing..... actually we don't, we are required to trust that the public will do the right thing and are not allowed to dig into things unless there is a valid reason.

Quite frankly there is more risk of terrible destruction out in those free streets than in the airport and getting on planes. And it has been proven that the current security circus does not stop much and misses a lot that it is supposed to stop. It has also been shown that it can be circumvented relatively easily. There is just no way that we can prevent a disaster from occurring again with much of the in airport "security" processes currently in place. Some if it is fine, it does basic screening and does not impede the flow of traffic and does not intrude on the rights of US citizens, other parts of the process however greatly impeded flow and intrude on the passengers and don't add real value to the process.

I am not saying it should all be gotten rid of but the monster the TSA has grown into needs to end and reverse.

My question always comes back to: where do we get the best value for the money we spend? And from everything that I have read and seen, we would be much better off spending the $20 odd-billion a year on investigative and preventative and behind the scenes efforts than what we are currently doing. We are actually costing significant billions more in addition to the directly funded billions.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinemax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1703 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 10):

To me the big issue is not TSA it is more that Homeland also didn't know anything and in fact it SHOULD know about things like this. That is its job after all.

Homeland Security said they had no credible threat, not that they knew nothing about this.

Quoting tugger (Reply 10):
My question always comes back to: where do we get the best value for the money we spend? And from everything that I have read and seen, we would be much better off spending the $20 odd-billion a year on investigative and preventative and behind the scenes efforts than what we are currently doing. We are actually costing significant billions more in addition to the directly funded billions.

That has almost nothing to do with your original post and is barely aviation related. Should be in non-av.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3070 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1663 times:

Quoting tharanga (Reply 7):
Quoting Polot (Reply 6):
It is not their job to investigate potential terrorist plots, it is their job to screen passengers and luggage at the airport.

The point being made is that the investigation and counterintelligence ahead of time is much more effective and productive than needle-in-a-haystack screening at the airport.
Quoting tugger (Reply 10):
To me the big issue is not TSA it is more that Homeland also didn't know anything and in fact it SHOULD know about things like this. That is its job after all.

We don't know what went on behind the scenes. Bottom line is they stopped it, as did they stop the potential bombing of the NW A330 near DTW and the cargo plane threats.

So every serious threat to US aviation has been thwarted so far in almost 11 years since 9/11. Say all you want about the TSA and DHS, but apparently someone has been doing something right.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5526 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1605 times:

Quoting max550 (Reply 11):
That has almost nothing to do with your original post and is barely aviation related.

That was the main point of the original post. Sorry if I was not clear. The cost to aviation and what is its impact? Is it helping or not? It has serious costs and implications for civil aviation and how it functions. You must agree, how can you not? Homeland should be "in on it" and be able to release a statement of some kind if there is a threat to "homeland security". Shouldn't they?

This was an apparently successful intervention of a terrorist plot by those other very capable agencies that he USA has had for a long time. They add real value and have real, demonstrable success. These agencies should be leading the charge or they should at least be communicating with and coordinating with Homeland Security so it can add its value. But the more time that passes the more I ask: "How much value does it add? Why do we need it?"

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 12):
So every serious threat to US aviation has been thwarted so far in almost 11 years since 9/11. Say all you want about the TSA and DHS, but apparently someone has been doing something right.

Yes, there have been a lot of people and agencies "doing something right" and making a real difference. But I do question the impact of the public show on the cost to aviation and the flying public when it is apparent that the real success is from these other actions that are going on and doing real work and having real effects.

Tugg

[Edited 2012-05-07 17:41:43]

[Edited 2012-05-07 17:45:04]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1493 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 10):
Do I allow the police to randomly stop and "screen" me to make sure I am not doing anything improper? Uhh no. The public can choose to lock doors or if we wish, leave them unlocked. Strangely we trust the public to do the right thing..... actually we don't, we are required to trust that the public will do the right thing and are not allowed to dig into things unless there is a valid reason.

Poor point. If you want to focus on the screening instead of the locks then just turn to the security employed at many buildings. Ever entered a court house? Entered a major data center? I get patted down and my bags opened. Everything I take in get tested for explosive residue. After more than 10 years I'm on first name basis with most of them and still need to show ID each time I enter.

Probably useless since police will find everyone before they get there. Love to get back the parking spaces next to the building.

Quoting tugger (Reply 10):
Quite frankly there is more risk of terrible destruction out in those free streets than in the airport and getting on planes. And it has been proven that the current security circus does not stop much and misses a lot that it is supposed to stop.

No doubt there is much that can be done to improve it. But there are very few constructive suggestions. Just a lot of complaints that it takes too much time and they miss too much. Somehow the expectation is they will find everything without touching or using any kind of technical equipment because it is too invasive. Because they would never use a kid to carry in knifes or explosives. Nor would the kidnap a pilots family to make the pilot carry in weapons or explosives. No all we need to know is what religion they confess to. And that we can easily figure out long before they get to the airport.

Meantime I get checked each time I go in to the data center. By people who know me. And the same happened at the nuclear power plant even though I was authorized to work on the security system all so many years ago.


User currently offlinemax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1420 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 13):
That was the main point of the original post. Sorry if I was not clear. The cost to aviation and what is its impact? Is it helping or not? It has serious costs and implications for civil aviation and how it functions. You must agree, how can you not? Homeland should be "in on it" and be able to release a statement of some kind if there is a threat to "homeland security". Shouldn't they?

This was an apparently successful intervention of a terrorist plot by those other very capable agencies that he USA has had for a long time. They add real value and have real, demonstrable success. These agencies should be leading the charge or they should at least be communicating with and coordinating with Homeland Security so it can add its value. But the more time that passes the more I ask: "How much value does it add? Why do we need it?"

That's an interesting discussion but it has very little to do with the original topic. The terrorist plot that was thwarted had very little to do with the Dept. of Homeland Security, what more are you expecting them to say? I'm not defending them but investigating terror plots is not their purpose.

Of course there's a cost and impact to aviation but that's a totally different topic than this specific terrorist plot.


User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21516 posts, RR: 60
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1396 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 6):
I hate the TSA as much as the next guy, but this has nothing to do with them. It is not their job to investigate potential terrorist plots, it is their job to screen passengers and luggage at the airport.

But that's the point. Shoe bomber, underwear bomber, underwear 2, they were foreign nationals, boarding at foreign airports. Yet the TSA harasses old ladies leaving Maui, who obviously came to Maui to meet up with explosives experts disguised champion paddle boarders.

It's misplaced priorities and misplaced resources in the name of security, but really being used as a way around the Constitution to look for money and drugs.

And the lamest part is that most airports in the USA still don't have full scanner implementation, and in just about every instance, I am able to actively choose a line that uses the old metal detectors. I'm just very coy about it. And often they say "there are 4 lines, that one is shorter" and I just act like I didn't hear and continue in the longer line and the person behind me goes to the backscatter.

Are terrorists not aware enough to do the same?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2166 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1386 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 16):
But that's the point. Shoe bomber, underwear bomber, underwear 2, they were foreign nationals, boarding at foreign airports. Yet the TSA harasses old ladies leaving Maui, who obviously came to Maui to meet up with explosives experts disguised champion paddle boarders.

So, to be clear, you are advocating for the elimination of all security at US airports?


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3070 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1296 times:

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 16):
But that's the point. Shoe bomber, underwear bomber, underwear 2, they were foreign nationals, boarding at foreign airports. Yet the TSA harasses old ladies leaving Maui, who obviously came to Maui to meet up with explosives experts disguised champion paddle boarders.

Not misplaced at all. So if you know that the TSA isn't going to screen old ladies leaving Maui, and cute little babies, where would you then put the explosives if you were the bad guy? You might plant a guy disguised as a champion paddle boarder Maui who will give the explosives to the terrorist plant disguised as the old lady, who is pretending to be an innocent old lady at Maui.


User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1178 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 10):
Do I allow the police to randomly stop and "screen" me to make sure I am not doing anything improper? Uhh no.

Allow? The streets are different than the TSA. To an extent, that administration and many other administrations are above the Bill of Rights. They set the rules, and the rule is if you're flying you'll be procedurally stopped and screened (there's nothing "random" about that). Sucks? Yeah. But that's how American gov't works.

Quoting tugger (Reply 10):
Quite frankly there is more risk of terrible destruction out in those free streets than in the airport and getting on planes.

This is true.



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13095 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1035 times:

Per recent news reports on this found bomb, the scary things are that it apparently was metal free and could be put into underwear. It is not sure if this device could by located by current TSA standard methods. While it was fortunate that this device was found by the CIA and other intelligence services, its discovery raises questions how our current security systems could detect such a device. Since modern TSA security techniques are changed after discovering another bomb device or an attempt to use one, I guess we are going to see soon even more intrusive, offensive and time consuming TSA procedures to get on an aircraft, with more costs and more discouraged from air travel.

User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3629 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1017 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 20):
the scary things are that it apparently was metal free and could be put into underwear. It is not sure if this device could by located by current TSA standard methods.

Aren't the full body scans / groping in place just for that? Otherwise, why not use the metal detectors now?


User currently offlineaa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 986 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4):
I didn't know that was the TSA's function. The plot was thwarted long before the underwear showed up at airport security.

The point is that airport security screening does not have a very good yield rate. The effective and best way to keep us safe is with state-of-the-art intelligence, not with invasive scanning procedures.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 12):
We don't know what went on behind the scenes. Bottom line is they stopped it, as did they stop the potential bombing of the NW A330 near DTW and the cargo plane threats.

What? The Northwest bomber was stopped by an alert passenger. Just like Richard Reid was stopped by an alert flight attendant.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 12):
So every serious threat to US aviation has been thwarted so far in almost 11 years since 9/11. Say all you want about the TSA and DHS, but apparently someone has been doing something right.

This is a very fallacious argument. Firstly, the two most serious threats to US aviation were stopped by airline crew and passengers. The other serious attacks were stopped by intelligence, not the TSA. There's actually no evidence at all, that I'm aware of, that the TSA has done anything other than inflate the demand for travel sized bottles of shampoo.

Quoting ghifty (Reply 19):
To an extent, that administration and many other administrations are above the Bill of Rights.

Government agencies cannot opt out of the Bill of Rights. What other agencies do you think are "above" the Bill of Rights?


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11598 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 962 times:

Huh... So a huge expantion of government under the right-wing does not work. Hundres of billions of dollars wasted by right-wingers goes for nothing. Color me shocked. And the right-wing just wants more and more of this. Yeah...


Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9340 posts, RR: 29
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 941 times:

Why complain? It worked exactly the way it should work, the CIA and whichever other services have done their job here. Congratulations. They are in place to prevent that a terrorist ever reaches an airport terminal.

The TSA is a huge waste of resources. They should be stopped from harrassing children and old people. Airport security can be done in a friendly and respectful way, with common sense. But we have discussed that numerous times.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinegeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 945 times:

Let's see now, so far there have been 24 replies to this thread, (and about that many previous threads complaining about the TSA and DHS )

It has become pretty clear that many people think TSA is "useless", "a pain in the butt", should be done away with, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

I'm expecting any day now to see a post where someone "has a better idea", an "alternative", but so far, nothing but complaints............

Also.........I have on several occasions pointed out that: very few if any organization is any better than the top people running it; if you think DHS is a "joke", one look at the person running it should be sufficient to explain why it's a joke.

While the TSA may be the more visible of the two, it's "management" operates on direction from the previous "joke"

(I'm hoping someone will start a thread entitled, (Anyone Have A Better Idea For Airport Security")


Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11598 posts, RR: 15
Reply 26, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 841 times:

Quoting geezer (Reply 25):
I'm expecting any day now to see a post where someone "has a better idea", an "alternative", but so far, nothing but complaints

That's because there is nothing better. There is no alternative. Scrap Patriot Act, TSA, and Homeland Security. That would save a lot of money every year.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineaa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 27, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 788 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 23):
Huh... So a huge expantion of government under the right-wing does not work. Hundres of billions of dollars wasted by right-wingers goes for nothing. Color me shocked. And the right-wing just wants more and more of this. Yeah...

The TSA was started under Bush, but has been thriving under Obama. Under the current administration, they've either introduced or enormously expanded the use of electronic strip searches, enacted inappropriate patdown procedures and, for a period, refused to entertain applications for accredited private agencies at certain airports. This is clearly not a right or left wing issue.

Quoting geezer (Reply 25):
I'm expecting any day now to see a post where someone "has a better idea", an "alternative", but so far, nothing but complaints............

Have accredited private companies do airport screening, using metal detectors and X-Ray scanners. Focus on having them use that equipment well, since the only evidence we have says they don't at this time. Meanwhile, pour the savings into intelligence operations so we can catch terrorists months before they get to the airport since that's what is going to keep us safe.


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5602 posts, RR: 6
Reply 28, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 717 times:

Quoting aa757first (Reply 27):

The TSA was started under Bush, but has been thriving under Obama.
Quoting geezer (Reply 25):
if you think DHS is a "joke", one look at the person running it should be sufficient to explain why it's a joke.

If you think either of them is actually running the show at DHS, you are sorely mistaken. I'm not even sure that Bush knew what he was doing when he signed them into existence.

The DHS has been known to openly threaten government officials with the line: "If you don't let us do this, and an attack happens, we will end your career."

Not one other government agency has anything nice to say about them, because they have literally hijacked the show and promote policies that do nothing except tear the constitution into tiny bits.

Quoting geezer (Reply 25):


I'm expecting any day now to see a post where someone "has a better idea", an "alternative", but so far, nothing but complaints............

I have made several proposals in this very forum. I know the search function isn't perfect, but I think people like to say that when they don't have anything better to say.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 29, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 648 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4):
I didn't know that was the TSA's function.


It would have been had the CIA not sniffed out this plan...doubt they would have caught the perp...and lets face it, if they "profiled him", you know they wouldn't have found him out...my $$$ is on the panties! Wasn't it he White house recently claimed the war on terror is over?...if so then should not the TSA also be?

Quoting Polot (Reply 17):
So, to be clear, you are advocating for the elimination of all security at US airports?


Disband the TSA and prompt returning US soldiers that have confronted these very types into a new experienced airport security alliance that has true credentials and experience.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 30, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 638 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 29):
It would have been had the CIA not sniffed out this plan...

Security at an overseas airport is not TSA's responsibility.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinegeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 31, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 613 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 26):
That's because there is nothing better. There is no alternative. Scrap Patriot Act, TSA, and Homeland Security. That would save a lot of money every year.

Now there's a grand idea ! Seb says "there is nothing better" ( than the TSA ? ) there is no alternative ( to DHS ? )

Scrap the Patriot act ? In other words, make it as easy as possible for terrorists to communicate with each other, and as difficult (or impossible) for our FBI to monitor their communications, and as difficult as possible to catch them...........then, we can all sit back and cross our fingers, and hope like hell they, (the terrorists), have suddenly decided to quit trying to attack us any more. And obviously, if the terrorists decide to be "good", there would no longer be a need for all of the hassle of going through everyone's suitcases, would there ?

Here's a question for you Seb............do you really think this is likely ? You really think the "bad guys" have given up ?
If you do, I have a swell deal on a large bridge I'd like to interest you in............

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 28):
If you think either of them is actually running the show at DHS, you are sorely mistaken. I'm not even sure that Bush knew what he was doing when he signed them into existence.

Maverick.........when you say "either of them", are you referring to TSA and DHS ? if you are, (and I'm sure you already know this......), TSA takes it's orders from DHS, and Janet Napolitano "runs" DHS; now, I'm sure we ALL know who "runs" Queen Janet. Not a "perfect" set up, but then I didn't set it up, so what can I say ?

Next..........why do you insist on bringing George Bush into this ? Sure, we all know both these agencies were started during his administration; and most of us remember there were some airplanes flying into big buildings in NYC, and killing lots of folks; Bush obviously had to do something ! What would you have done ? What would anyone have done ?
Maybe we should call up Obama and ask him what he thinks Bush should have done ? (that ought tom be good for a few laughs !)

You know what ? Geo. Bush forgot all about Bill Clinton about 15 minutes after he changed his address to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. I think you, Obama, and everyone else should do likewise; forget about George Bush; the guy's retired now; he's "out of power".........people get tired of listening to a "broken record", ya know what I mean ?

We're trying to discuss a serious subject here; we need ideas........GOOD ideas; ideas that will work;
Next...........

Quoting Polot (Reply 17):
Quoting Polot (Reply 17):
uoting ikramerica (Reply 16):
But that's the point. Shoe bomber, underwear bomber, underwear 2, they were foreign nationals, boarding at foreign airports. Yet the TSA harasses old ladies leaving Maui, who obviously came to Maui to meet up with explosives experts disguised champion paddle boarders.

So, to be clear, you are advocating for the elimination of all security at US airports?

If he is, that's a BAD idea; and idea that WON"T work !

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 29):

Disband the TSA and prompt returning US soldiers that have confronted these very types into a new experienced airport security alliance that has true credentials and experience.

Here's the beginning of an idea...........returning soldiers; trouble is, which ones do we use; sure, they know how to kill bad guys, but you're kinda "limited" as to who you can kill at an airport; and why "disband" TSA ? You must have an organization; you just have to have the right people working in it; I'm sure a lot of returning troops would qualify, after proper training......

here's another idea; I think a much better idea..........first, call Janet in, give her a one way ticket to, say, Norfolk Island; tell her to STAY there till you call her, and tell her NOT to call you; (and make sure she's blindfolded AND muzzled) Then call Retired General Stanley McChristal (hope I spelled your name right, Stan), and after "Dear Leader" apologizes to the General, double his pay before he "retired", and put him in COMMAND of DHS, and TSA, and tell him to "straighten those suckers out" ! In no time at all, all of this current horse puckey at airports will be a thing of the past.

( Serious organizations have to have a serious leader !)

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11598 posts, RR: 15
Reply 32, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 603 times:

Quoting geezer (Reply 31):
which ones do we use

Not the ones who had half their head blown off and are going back on their fourth or fifth tour. Let them heal and try to live some what of a normal life.

Quoting geezer (Reply 31):
sure, they know how to kill bad guys, but you're kinda "limited" as to who you can kill at an airport;

Kill? What about detain? I was pulled aside at PDX because the tripod in my camera bag looks suspicious. I honestly do not believe a soldier would have killed me over that.

Quoting geezer (Reply 31):
and why "disband" TSA ?

They are a waste of money and space.

Quoting geezer (Reply 31):
make it as easy as possible for terrorists to communicate with each other, and as difficult (or impossible) for our FBI to monitor their communications, and as difficult as possible to catch them
Quoting geezer (Reply 31):
then, we can all sit back and cross our fingers, and hope like hell they, (the terrorists), have suddenly decided to quit trying to attack us any more

Yet DHS/TSA did nothing. It was all CIA.

Quoting aa757first (Reply 27):
This is clearly not a right or left wing issue.

No, but I can guarantee it will be blamed on Obama and this will be yet another reason to vote against Obama and Democrats.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5602 posts, RR: 6
Reply 33, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 586 times:

Quoting geezer (Reply 31):
Maverick.........when you say "either of them", are you referring to TSA and DHS ?

I was referring to Obama and Bush before him running the show at the DHS.

Quoting geezer (Reply 31):
and most of us remember there were some airplanes flying into big buildings in NYC

 

The 9/11 excuse got old about 6 years ago.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9340 posts, RR: 29
Reply 34, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 582 times:

I may have missed it over all the bipartisan exchange here but the guy who was supposed to blow his crown jewels off was actually working for the Saudi secret service.

Instead of going on a flight to the USA and Nirwana, pardon, Paradise, he went to his HQ including gthr pants bomb and the secret services now have the original.

Good job, they also got some valuable information about Al Qaida in Yemen and the first action has been taken already last weekend. It may not work all the time, but it did work very often, also over here , that such attempts were stopped by the police or secret services. We just have 4 AQ members on trial in Duesseldorf.

TSA would not have been involved in firts place and if that guy would have boarded a flight in Dubai going direct there would not have been any racial profiling either.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlinegeezer From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 35, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 584 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 32):
No, but I can guarantee it will be blamed on Obama and this will be yet another reason to vote against Obama and Democrats.

Seb, for once I sure hope you're right !

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 33):


The 9/11 excuse got old about 6 years ago.

What exactly do you mean, by "excuse" ? When a gang of terrorists hi-jacks 4 airliners, murders over 2,000 innocent people, destroys one of the world's largest buildings in the process, I hardly think we need an "excuse" to hunt down those responsible, and hang them ! I would be more inclined to call it "a reason".........( and a very damned good reason at that )

Also, I'm pretty sure if you mention your "6 yr thing" to anyone who had loved ones murdered in that disaster, you will almost certainly get "an ear full" !

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5602 posts, RR: 6
Reply 36, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 556 times:

Quoting geezer (Reply 35):
I hardly think we need an "excuse" to hunt down those responsible, and hang them !

Explain to me exactly how the DHS is functioning as a revenge service?

Quoting geezer (Reply 35):

Also, I'm pretty sure if you mention your "6 yr thing" to anyone who had loved ones murdered in that disaster, you will almost certainly get "an ear full" !

You really, really, REALLY don't want to go there.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8231 posts, RR: 8
Reply 37, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 492 times:

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
If they know nothing, how are they providing true value?

"Need To Know" is somewhat restricting, especially when it has an intelligence op underway.

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 1):
Yet another example that validates how useless the TSA really is.

The FAA was also out of the Need To Know loop. Does that make them useless? Or any other department in government NOT involved in the operation.?

Quoting tugger (Reply 10):
To me the big issue is not TSA it is more that Homeland also didn't know anything and in fact it SHOULD know about things like this.

Limited knowledge of this op is probably one of the reasons why it was so successful. Not an issue for those who believe in tightly controlled security.


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 38, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 477 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 30):

Technically correct however while my trips to Europe everytime have had me go through local screening then on to screening performed according to US/TSA standards/regulations in isolated gate areas when returning to the US... Potatos, Pototos...


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