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The Classic Cars Thread  
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4502 posts, RR: 15
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4222 times:

I've been flipping through a book with some great info and photos of classic cars. A.net seems to be full of car appreciators, so I figured I'd start an all-inclusive thread on the subject.

Anyone working on restoring a classic? Anyone own one that's been kept in pristine condition or restored by another? Or perhaps you're looking for one. If money was no object, what would you run out and buy today? Classic trucks included too.

A few on my list would include:

'72 Corvette
'71 Mustang Mach 1
'70 Dodge Challenger
'69 GTO
'68 Mustang Cobra Jet
'67 Corvette L-88
'63 Ford Galaxie 500
'63 Ford Thunderbird M-Code
'62 Olds Starfire
'59 Pontiac Catalina
'59 Olds Dynamic 88 "holiday"
'59 Impala
'59 Cadillac Eldorado
'57 Ford Thunderbird
'52 Lincoln Capri


I have a real thing for late 50s/early 60s cars that sported outrageous fins on the rear. Color those things a deep red and the thing looks like a rocket ship. Love it. But I'm also really big on the muscle cars of the late 60s and early 70s, so it's a tough choice what I'd choose if I were allowed to own only one classic car.

I think of the finned models, I'd go for the '59 Eldo. For the sporty cars, It's a tossup between the '72 Corvette and the '68 Mustang Cobra Jet.


This thread is useless without pics, so here's some fin action to get us started:







Anyway, talk about anything classic car related! I'd also like to see some discussion of classic movies featuring classic cars. For example, who could forget the 1970 Dodge Challenger that appeared in Vanishing Point?



[Edited 2012-05-09 12:32:50]

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7372 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4208 times:

Great thread.

Jaguar Mk II

http://www.velocityjournal.com/images/full/2002/s2002080401/hg1960mk2sedan5801.jpg

Jaguar E-Type Series 1 Coupe

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_DmHLPW35Ic4/TMfm7GSZSiI/AAAAAAAAAG0/VVKeKd-hLvc/s1600/E-Type_Series1_coupe.jpeg

Porsche 911 2.7 RS

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/8775/dsc00976db7.jpg

Porsche 356 Speedster

http://www.providecars.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/electric-porsche-356-speedster-conversion.jpg

Triumph TR6



BMW 2002 Turbo

http://www.bmwism.com/all_bmw/bmw_2002_turbo_bmw_ag.jpg

Maserati Bora

http://allcarcentral.com/Maserati/Maserati_Bora_1975_3rd_EIT0055_Concorso_It_2009.jpg

Maserati Ghibli

http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/front_website/octane_interact/modelpicture.php?id=1119

Fiat 131 Abarth



Ford Falcon Cobra



Lotus Cortina Mk 1

http://www.shorey.net/Auto/British/Lotus/1965%20Lotus%20Cortina%20-%20frontR.jpg

Ford Falcon GTHO Phase III (Aussie muscle doesn't come any more expensive than this)



Chrysler Valianr Charger R/T E37

http://mannamaker.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/car_photo_304854_25.jpg

Holden Torana A9X

http://www.roh.com.au/external_media/Torana_A9x_Desktop_1024x768.jpg


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4186 times:

A thread to just post random pics of nice classic cars?
...cool.

http://dayerses.com/data_images/posts/de-tomaso-mangusta/de-tomaso-mangusta-04.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_lqcapwW1CkU/Sb_K5XlqHfI/AAAAAAAADCA/3FIVplYj_hM/s1600/RenaultAlpine.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nEcS7mTzh94/TMz5Qg8yT8I/AAAAAAAAEGc/imU5srKDgNo/s1600/IMG_0289.JPG



to be continued...



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineAloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4502 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4183 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 2):

A thread to just post random pics of nice classic cars?
...cool.

Well, mostly to discuss classic cars, but to include some pics as well. I'm interested to see if anyone is working on any classic cars, or what they'd get if they could own one. Plus discuss classic movies that have memorable classic cars in them, like Vanishing Point or Smokey and the Bandit or Blues Brothers and such.


User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7372 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4179 times:

francoflier the RS2 is a beast of a car, but it isn't old enough to be a classic car, it's a future classic car for sure.

User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4175 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 3):
Well, mostly to discuss classic cars,

Boo. Words bad, pictures good.
 

I do dream of restoring a classic sometime. If life didn't take a steep left turn recently I'd be starting to find a shed somewhere, filling it up with tools and looking for a prospective tenant in need of extreme surgery.

I like all old cars, some do interest me more than others but then a lot of that comes from the 'motor landscape' we grew up in I guess.
I prefer young classics, mostly Italian or German, and I'd probably start with something relatively easy to work on an with a still relatively low value.
Golf GTI mark I would do fine.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4170 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 4):
, but it isn't old enough to be a classic car

Too soon?  

It depends on the definition of a classic... I tend to think the RS2 was born a classic. It's value is only going to go up from now.
But then it's still less than 20 years old.
Again, to each generation their classics.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4163 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Thread starter):
If money was no object, what would you run out and buy today?

I bought mines 4 years ago.
Although not considered a "classic" but what I wanted.

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj96/Rush8track/DSCN4690.jpg



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineLarshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 1471 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4158 times:

My dad is working on a Reliant Scimitar GTE SE5A, so far all the mechanics minus the engine is done. The body isn't pretty, it has a diy paint job done by a previous owner.

Like this one:
http://www.allsportauto.com/photoautre/reliant/scimitar_se5/1969_reliant_scimitar_se5_overdrive_05_sb.jpg

I have probably recieved some damage helping my dad on his Scimitar, but I would really like to get my hands on a Reliant Sabre Six, like this:
http://slatford.co.uk/Pictures%20of%20Cars/Reliant/Sabre%20Six%204.jpg



139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
User currently offlineGSPflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4142 times:

My Dad has a 1970 Roadrunner, similar to the one below, except in black. We are going to start restoring it soon. His is a Matching #s 383 V8 with an Automatic transmission.



My favorites are:

1968-70 Plymouth Roadrunner (They screwed up the 71 IMO)
1970-74 Plymouth Barracuda
1968-70 Dodge Superbee
1970-74 Dodge Challenger
1963-65 Chevy Impala
1967-69 Chevy Camaro (I was never the biggest fan of Firebirds, though)

Many, Many more. I am only 20, and I feel like I have a better appreciation for classic cars than most people my age. I appreciate almost any American car built before the mid-70's.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10735 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4125 times:

I have never been a fan of mass-production cars. I am only interested in rare and/or grand cars.
Like:
Bentley SIII Flying Spur
Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow
Lancia HPE2000IE
Alfa Romeo 2600 Spider
Ferrari 365GT2+2

Quoting Larshjort (Reply 8):

The Reliant Scimitar is a cool car.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):

One of my favorites among the US cars although I like the predcessor with suicide doors even more.


User currently offlineUltimateDelta From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2122 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4120 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 1):
BMW 2002 Turbo

  

I have a friend who loves Corvettes and absolutely hates this car, but he's not here so I'll share the BMW 507   :
http://image.motortrend.com/f/29578251+w1500+ar1+st0/BMW-507-front-three-quarters-view.jpg

And then this one's been my absolute favorite since I first saw one...the DeTomaso Pantera (later models):



Midwest Airlines- 1984-2010
User currently offlineSmithAir747 From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1628 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4115 times:




This is still my dream car that I am seeking, since my family had one just like it when I was young.

SmithAir747



I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made... (Psalm 139:14)
User currently offlinemad99 From Spain, joined Mar 2012, 559 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4057 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 1):
Porsche 911 2.7 RS

A friend of mine bought a replica one of these with a insurance settlement.
He was about 20 yo and it had a 2,4l over 200 hp engine.
About two days after he sold it the police phoned asking if it was his, it was found destroyed after a major crash w/o driver.


User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1833 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4050 times:

This is my neighbour's Delta Integrale Evo.



Not really a true classic (we're talking late 80s, early 90s), but still a blast of a car which saw pretty limited production.


User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7372 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4016 times:

I absolutley love the 80's Group B rally cars, I'd give my left nuts for any of the following

Lancia Delta S4



Lancia 037

http://www.deviantart.com/download/191377513/lancia_037_rally_02_by_venom800tt-d35xvu1.jpg

Peugeot 205 T16



Citroen BX 4TC

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_94Cf-lHVOmg/S-B0G6saUMI/AAAAAAAAGLY/cIRTououhSA/s1600/DSC_1294.JPG

Ford RS2000

http://www.theultimateshine.com/pics/RS200/RS200-40.JPG

Audi Sport Quattro S1

http://dayerses.com/data_images/posts/audi-sport-quattro/audi-sport-quattro-02.jpg

and my favourite the MG Metro 6R4



User currently offlineLarshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 1471 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4006 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 15):
Lancia 037
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 15):
Ford RS2000

RS200 :p

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 15):
MG Metro 6R4

I absolutely agree with you, I love group B cars.
We have a local car museum, open about 10 tuesday evenings a year. They had a RS200 but sold it because it didn't fit in his collection. I think he bought 2 Ferraris and a Bentley with royal history for the money he got from the Ford.

http://www.strojersamlingen.dk/

/Lars



139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3951 times:

Not a big tifoso, but here's a couple of Ferraris I rather like:




Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3068 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3899 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 17):
Not a big tifoso, but here's a couple of Ferraris I rather like:

For the other non-tifosos in the audience, the black car is a 412 and the red car is a 308 GTB.

I've always had a soft spot for the Aston Martin Lagonda, a car that when introduced in the mid-1970s looked to me like a preview of a Lincoln Town Car from the year 2000:
http://www.ridelust.com/wp-content/uploads/aston_martin_lagonda.jpg
Of course, the actual Lincoln Town Car from the year 2000 wound up looking nothing whatsoever like an Aston Martin Lagonda, which begs the question "What, then, was the point of Ford buying Aston Martin?".



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3895 times:

Quoting TSS (Reply 18):
I've always had a soft spot for the Aston Martin Lagonda, a car that when introduced in the mid-1970s looked to me like a preview of a Lincoln Town Car from the year 2000:

Beautiful!   
I remember driving past one 2 years ago near San Francisco. I was in my Town Car. We both gave each other the thumbsup admiring each persons car.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15742 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

Quoting Aloha717200 (Reply 3):
I'm interested to see if anyone is working on any classic cars, or what they'd get if they could own one.

A hail storm did in my current car. So now I'm looking for either a Porsche 944S, Turbo, or S2 but I might end up with an old Boxster instead. Hard to say which is the practical choice.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 17):
Not a big tifoso, but here's a couple of Ferraris I rather like:

Neither of those was Ferrari's best effort. Of course they weren't the Mondial either. And people think the Porsche 924 sucked...

Quoting Superfly (Reply 19):
I remember driving past one 2 years ago near San Francisco. I was in my Town Car. We both gave each other the thumbsup admiring each persons car.

You were both wrong.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3880 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 20):
You were both wrong.

LOL!  
His 1976 Aston Martin Lagonda and my 1977 Lincoln Town Car were the most beautiful cars on the road!  



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7372 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3866 times:

Quoting TSS (Reply 18):

I've always had a soft spot for the Aston Martin Lagonda

I liked the Lagonda, especially in it's final Series 4 form.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/89_Lagonda.JPG/800px-89_Lagonda.JPG

and the Aston Martin Lagonda Series 1, Lagonda then signified the 4 door version of the DBS Coupe.

http://www.quattro-porte.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/1974_Aston_Martin_Lagonda_690.jpg


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3860 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 20):
Neither of those was Ferrari's best effort.

It's what gives them a little charm and, importantly, non-astronomical resale prices.

A couple of classics from another great auto-nation:

Toyota 2000GT:


Datsun Z series:


And can the classic car definition police on here give me the verdict on the E30?
Because I'm getting one of them and restoring it one day...
 ...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9UDz8Dgv1pg/SsLWq7AF0DI/AAAAAAAAE78/e-YC5zjedhA/s1600/E30-Touring+%2816%29.jpg



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15742 posts, RR: 27
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3859 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
His 1976 Aston Martin Lagonda and my 1977 Lincoln Town Car were the most beautiful cars on the road!

Wow! A whole street of Azteks and Elements!?

Quoting francoflier (Reply 23):
It's what gives them a little charm and, importantly, non-astronomical resale prices.

Maintenance prices are equally astronomical though.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 25, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3884 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 22):
I liked the Lagonda, especially in it's final Series 4 form.

Wow, me and Kiwirob agree on the same car.
The end must be near!   

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 24):
Wow! A whole street of Azteks and Elements!?

Actually you are correct. This was on the highway going through Berkeley. Lots of Elements a few Aztecs as well as other offenders such as the Prius, M-class, Matrix and other forgettable minivans.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 26, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 7):
I bought mines 4 years ago.

Gorgeous, 'Fly. Love those old Lincolns. I would love to own a Bill Blass designer Mark V someday.

My dad and I worked on restoring his 1966 Ford Fairlane 500XL convertible for years. I loved that car. One day in 1993, my Dad took the now-completely restored Fairlane to the local shopping mall, and when he came out of the mall, a guy had left his business card under the wiper with a note to call him as he wanted to buy the car. My father called him and chatted about the car, and the guy offered him a ton of cash for it, and my Dad sold it to him the next day. I was away on a business trip to MSP, but when I got home a few day later and found out my father sold "our" car, I was crushed. But my Dad was only couple of years away from retirement, and the money from the sale would come in handy. C'est la vie. The photo below isn't our Ford, but it looks exactly like it.

1966 Ford Fairlane 500XL Convertible



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 27, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3750 times:

P1800
http://dayerses.com/data_images/posts/volvo-p1800/volvo-p1800-09.jpg

Class like never again from Volvo...



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 28, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 3725 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 27):
P1800
Class like never again from Volvo...

That is a beautiful car. You would think that those are still in production in San Francisco because there are tons of those cars still running there.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 26):
Gorgeous, 'Fly. Love those old Lincolns. I would love to own a Bill Blass designer Mark V someday.

Should be easy to find. That is a beautiful car. I almost bought a 1978 BIll Blass for $700 back in 1995. I passed because it had the 400cu" engine. Those are problematic in the large Lincolns. They were fine for the smaller Torinos as a credit option.
The Bill Blass Mark V sold like hot cakes and many are still on the road. If you buy one, make sure it has the 7.5 liter 460cu" engine and avoid the 1979 model year altogether because the 400cu" was the only engine available that year.
The best year for the Mark V is 1978. It was the last year of the 460cu", but the first year with the 'Miles To Empty' digital display.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 26):
My dad and I worked on restoring his 1966 Ford Fairlane 500XL convertible for years. I loved that car. One day in 1993, my Dad took the now-completely restored Fairlane to the local shopping mall, and when he came out of the mall, a guy had left his business card under the wiper with a note to call him as he wanted to buy the car. My father called him and chatted about the car, and the guy offered him a ton of cash for it, and my Dad sold it to him the next day. I was away on a business trip to MSP, but when I got home a few day later and found out my father sold "our" car, I was crushed. But my Dad was only couple of years away from retirement, and the money from the sale would come in handy. C'est la vie. The photo below isn't our Ford, but it looks exactly like it.

Was it navy blue? There is one is San Francisco I'd see all the time.
That is a great car and I'd love to own a full-sized Ford convertible - ideally a 1968 Mercury Park Lane Colony Park convertible with woodgrain side panels or a 1970 Mercury Marquis convertible.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v416/Superfly8track/1968MercuryParkLane.jpg
1968 Mercury Park Lane convertible with Colony Park woodgrain side panels.
Build on the same platform as your Ford XL.




1970 Mercury Marquis convertible.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3068 posts, RR: 5
Reply 29, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3688 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
1968 Mercury Park Lane convertible with Colony Park woodgrain side panels.
Build on the same platform as your Ford XL.

I suspect you're thinking of a Galaxie XL, not a Fairlane XL.



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 30, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3684 times:

Quoting TSS (Reply 29):
I suspect you're thinking of a Galaxie XL, not a Fairlane XL.

Yes I'm thinking of the Galaxie XL.
I got the two mixed up. 



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3068 posts, RR: 5
Reply 31, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3678 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 30):
Yes I'm thinking of the Galaxie XL.
I got the two mixed up.

Quite understandable since in '66 and '67 they did look very similar, especially from the front.

Like Richard Harris and Peter O'Toole, when they're next to each other it's easy to see the differences, but separately it's hard to tell which is which at a glance.



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 32, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3661 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
The Bill Blass Mark V sold like hot cakes and many are still on the road. If you buy one, make sure it has the 7.5 liter 460cu" engine and avoid the 1979 model year altogether because the 400cu" was the only engine available that year.

A older lady that lives a couple of blocks from me here in PHX has a 1978 Blass edition Mark V with the faux convertible roof sitting in her carport, but it's in rough condition. The rear quarter panels are rusted (it's originally a mid-west car) and the top is completely shot. If I had the cash to restore it the "right way", I would.

Big version: Width: 600 Height: 307 File size: 148kb
1978 Lincoln Mark V


[Edited 2012-05-13 16:55:38]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10735 posts, RR: 9
Reply 33, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3616 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 23):
And can the classic car definition police on here give me the verdict on the E30?

The (not at all unbiased) German classic car press currently hypes the first M3 (which I think was a hideously ugly car). The convertible surely is a classic, and the Touring not bad if in the right colour (a friend of mine had one 20 years ago in gorgeous emerald with brown leather, but forget ordinary combinations like silver with black interior). Forget the limousine, as its too ordinary and boring.

If I´d go for an affordable near-classic of that time it´ll be the Alfa 164 with the fantastic 3l engine. A great car I once had back in the 90s. A great drive, excellent rust-protection and much better styling than the BMWs back then, and still cheap to buy. 100% guarantee that´ll become a classic in all versions.


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7521 posts, RR: 23
Reply 34, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 3611 times:

Quoting TSS (Reply 29):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 28):
1968 Mercury Park Lane convertible with Colony Park woodgrain side panels.
Build on the same platform as your Ford XL.

I suspect you're thinking of a Galaxie XL, not a Fairlane XL.

By that time, the Galaxie (or more accurately, the Galaxie 500) prefix from the full-size XL was already dropped. When one said XL, it was more than understood that one was implying the full-size model. If one meant the mid-size Fairlane XL; one would've said so.

By 1968, the full-size XL was starting to gravitate towards the dressier LTD model; the '68-'70 XLs featured the LTD's & Country Squire's nose & grille w/concealed headlights.

1968 XL


1969 XL
http://snas.nbcuni.com/content/public/4/a/e/9/9375ed2240d2c3f97cede133876459b2/garage/938dbfde7f000001748c502423728313.jpg

1970 XL (final year)



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10735 posts, RR: 9
Reply 35, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week ago) and read 3596 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 17):
Not a big tifoso, but here's a couple of Ferraris I rather like:

I´m a big tifoso if its for food or cars (but not football)! No one is as good in exterior car design as the Italians.
That said, you show two Ferraris of the opposite end of the spectrum.
The upper one, the big 12-cyl., 4seater 400i, is at an all-time low of demand at the moment. You can have a decent one for 25.000 Euros. But beware the maintenance. The yearly inspection will cost you 10.000, at minimum, and only if nothing´s wrong.
The lower one, the 308GTB, is one of the top classics of all time, something as the 911 of Ferrari if ever there was one. Still a bit young to be called a classic, its mid-70s styling is one of the cornerstones of Ferrari´s history. Two years ago my Tifoso garage offered me a low-priced, well-used one from around 1980, for 30.000 Euros. You have to be shorter than 1,80 m to really enjoy it though, and I´m 1,85. One dream less to save money for!

Quoting TSS (Reply 18):
I've always had a soft spot for the Aston Martin Lagonda

I have seen one last year, blue with white interior, absolutely stunning. It won a price in one of the major classic car events of 2011. The car in its first version was notorious for its faulty electronics.


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 36, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3584 times:

Quoting na (Reply 35):

I like the 400 mostly for its good and unusual look and because most people looking at you will have no clue what you're driving.

I like the 308 because it looks cool and it's Magnum's car...  

Couldn't care less about the price, I'll never own any of them. I'll only own a classic if I can pretty much rebuild it from the ground up and take care of it myself. Owning a Ferrari implies going to the dealership every 5000 miles to get it serviced and walk out minus an arm. Older models might be slightly easier to work on and some parts can be found for cheap (straight from the parts manufacturer, unbranded), but even then, Ferrari has you tied on a leash...
There's a snubness about Ferraris that I can't stand.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10735 posts, RR: 9
Reply 37, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 36):
Owning a Ferrari implies going to the dealership every 5000 miles to get it serviced and walk out minus an arm. Older models might be slightly easier to work on and some parts can be found for cheap (straight from the parts manufacturer, unbranded), but even then, Ferrari has you tied on a leash...

I fully agree, and there´s always the fear the engine might bust. New Ferraris are much more usable but they are outworldly expensive to buy AND to own. The 400I, which I also like because of just the same reason as you do is at least affordable to buy if you just love to own one without driving more than 1000 or 2000 kms a year.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 36):
There's a snubness about Ferraris that I can't stand.

A little bit, maybe, but still most Ferraris are much cooler than any Porsche I have ever seen.


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 38, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3577 times:

Quoting na (Reply 37):
A little bit, maybe, but still most Ferraris are much cooler than any Porsche I have ever seen.

I don't disagree. I incidentally walked past a 308 yesterday and couldn't help but kind of wish I had one. It's a love-hate I'm happy I'll never have to sort...

And now, for something completely different:

http://www.carstyling.ru/resources/classic/large/55citroen_ds19_01.jpg




Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7372 posts, RR: 5
Reply 39, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3576 times:

Quoting na (Reply 33):
The (not at all unbiased) German classic car press currently hypes the first M3 (which I think was a hideously ugly car). The convertible surely is a classic, and the Touring not bad if in the right colour (a friend of mine had one 20 years ago in gorgeous emerald with brown leather, but forget ordinary combinations like silver with black interior). Forget the limousine, as its too ordinary and boring.

BMW never built an E30 M3 Touring, they only built 2 door sedans and convertibles. It's not just the German motoring press, the English (Car, EVO, Supercar Classic's........) rave over the E30. That said there is a converted E30 Touring in Sweden with complete M3 specs including custom built blistered rear fenders.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Yi_pz046oY4/TwrEf26bMrI/AAAAAAAAO3Q/TxyXf15JkqM/s1600/e30t1.jpg

Another dead cert for classic status is the Lancia Delta Integrale, prices for tidy examples are currently going through the roof. Prices for the Integrales contemporaries (Toyota Celica GT4, VW Golf Rallye, Nissan Sunny GTiR, Ford Escort Cosworth) aren't anywhere near as strong.



User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10735 posts, RR: 9
Reply 40, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3570 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 38):
And now, for something completely different:

The DS, fantastique! Best car ever designed in France since the days of Ettore Bugatti. I dont like the Merc you show below it, as I think its the absolute opposite of the DS. For me this Merc, the "Strich 8" was the symbol of boredom, a true square old man´s barge, not nice to look at, and boring to drive. Now if you had chosen its bigger brother, the late 60s S-class with the vertical double headlights, that was a different thing! Simple, cool, understated.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 39):
Another dead cert for classic status is the Lancia Delta Integrale, prices for tidy examples are currently going through the roof.

Incredible prices by now for this exhilarating car which won several Rallye WCs. A good one fetches 40.000 Euros or more, thats ore than it cost when new. Only 5 years ago you could get it for half the money. In the mid-80s I had its less powerful basic version, a Delta 1500, as the very first car I bought by myself.


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 41, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3571 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 39):
That said there is a converted E30 Touring in Sweden with complete M3 specs including custom built blistered rear fenders.

A tad gaudy, but still...




Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15742 posts, RR: 27
Reply 42, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3559 times:

Quoting na (Reply 35):
The lower one, the 308GTB, is one of the top classics of all time, something as the 911 of Ferrari if ever there was one.

There never was one. Ferrari has never built anything as great as the 911.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 36):
I like the 308 because it looks cool and it's Magnum's car...

Take one of the Miami Vice Ferraris instead, even though the Daytona was actually a replica. (Same with the Ferrari in Ferris Bueller's Day Off) When the show became popular, Ferrari sued the kit manufacturer and gave the show the white Testarossa instead.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 36):
There's a snubness about Ferraris that I can't stand.

There absolutely is. The "you need us more than we need you" attitude that sent Ferruccio Lamborghini off to build his own cars still exists.

Ferrari is notorious for sending "special" cars to journalists, to the point where one had tires stick to a dyno. They send technicians along with the cars and threaten to blacklist journalists who dare drive a customer car.

http://jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins

And when it comes to sales, Ferrari gives each dealer only a fixed allocation and it is up to them to make the most of it, so Ferrari's regularly sell for well over sticker. A 458 likely cannot be found for under $300,000. I don't mind the laws of supply and demand at all, but that functions to make the car even less attractive than the McLaren MP4-12C, which I've heard the factory will not allow dealers to sell at over sticker.

Quoting na (Reply 37):
New Ferraris are much more usable but they are outworldly expensive to buy AND to own

And they still catch on fire.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7372 posts, RR: 5
Reply 43, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3542 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 41):

A tad gaudy, but still...

That E30 is beautifully built, the rear fenders are steel, I saw the car in a petrol station a couple of years ago, it's so well built it could have come out of BMW's factory.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 44, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 38):
And now, for something completely different:

Those Citroens DS are one of the most beautiful cars ever to come out of Europe! They are gorgeous!   
I had the honor of driving one around the block about 10 years ago. Very soft riding vehicle too.
I just didn't like the brakes.

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 32):
A older lady that lives a couple of blocks from me here in PHX has a 1978 Blass edition Mark V with the faux convertible roof sitting in her carport, but it's in rough condition. The rear quarter panels are rusted (it's originally a mid-west car) and the top is completely shot. If I had the cash to restore it the "right way", I would.

They're fairly common. I just checked on Ebay Motors and they have a mint condition 1979 model going for a price I have never seen for Lincolns of this era.
It's beautiful and all but it doesn't have the power-glass moonroof, doesn't have the digital 'miles to empty' and it has the compromised government mandated 400cu" engine.
It does however come with a Barbara Streisand 8track.  http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AMAZI...ash=item1c26dd86ea#ht_40960wt_1026

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 34):
1970 XL (final year)

Was that on a completely different platform than the LTD?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7521 posts, RR: 23
Reply 45, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3524 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 44):
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 34):
1970 XL (final year)

Was that on a completely different platform than the LTD?

Nope, all full-size Fords shared the same platform and had the same wheelbase. I believe that's been the one constant for generations right up to when the last Crown Vic. rolled off the assmebly line last Spetember.

For 1971, the convertible model was passed on from the discontinued XL to the LTD.



The last Galaxie 500 convertible was the 1969 model.




"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineCharles79 From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2007, 1331 posts, RR: 5
Reply 46, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3512 times:

Nice thread and great pics!

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 22):
I liked the Lagonda, especially in it's final Series 4 form.

An underappreciated car sadly, not too many collectors "rushing" to restore and keep them in their glory. If I had the funds I'd have one as well.

Not yet "classics" but already considered Youngtimers, one day I shall have one of these in my driveway:


Porsche 928 GTS


Ferrari 288 GTO

I also have a soft spot for these ones

Citroën XM

Or I could settle for a Jaguar E-Type...a roadster for me, thanks!

Jaguar E-Type Series III V12 Roadster


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10735 posts, RR: 9
Reply 47, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3506 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 42):
There never was one. Ferrari has never built anything as great as the 911.

Ferrari built a lot of cars more desirable than the mass product named 911. The Ferrari GTO is the greatest classic of them all, leaving the rest behind in any concours or voting.
Dont get me wrong, the 911 is a great car, but its hardly a match with a Ferrari when it comes to style and exclusivity. I find cars I can see half a dozen times in the first 5 minutes I leave my house a bit boring, and I live in a neighbourhood where 911s are not much more than bread and butter.
Have you ever driven a "classic" 911 from the 70s? Its not something I´d like to use every day, as its brute, hard as a brick, very noisy and ridiculously priced for what you get.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39884 posts, RR: 74
Reply 48, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3491 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 45):
For 1971, the convertible model was passed on from the discontinued XL to the LTD.

I like that 1971-1972 LTD convertible. Luckily those are rather common and aren't too expensive.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 46):
An underappreciated car sadly, not too many collectors "rushing" to restore and keep them in their glory. If I had the funds I'd have one as well.

Same here.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7372 posts, RR: 5
Reply 49, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3489 times:

Quoting francoflier (Reply 23):
And can the classic car definition police on here give me the verdict on the E30?
Because I'm getting one of them and restoring it one day...
...

If you want an E30 M3 you better buy one now, they are getting more expensive as time goes by. The good thing about the E30 is that BMW made a lot of them, parts are easy to come by, there are a lot of specialists and the BMW forums are bursting with knowledge.

Quoting na (Reply 47):
Ferrari built a lot of cars more desirable than the mass product named 911.

Ferrari might have built more desirable cars than the 911 but they have never been able to build cars as well as Porsche does. Ferrari quality still isn't much chop especially considering the prices you have to pay. A entry level Boxster is better built than a 599.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10735 posts, RR: 9
Reply 50, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3481 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 49):
Ferrari might have built more desirable cars than the 911 but they have never been able to build cars as well as Porsche does. Ferrari quality still isn't much chop especially considering the prices you have to pay. A entry level Boxster is better built than a 599.

I do agree, Porsche´s are built perfectly. Recently I checked out the new 911, fantastic. If it comes to interiors, I also like recent Porsches (ca. post-2005) more than Ferraris. If it comes to build-quality only RR and Bentley are a match with Porsche.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15742 posts, RR: 27
Reply 51, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3472 times:

Quoting na (Reply 47):
Ferrari built a lot of cars more desirable than the mass product named 911

No Ferrari model comes even close the the overall greatness and body of work the 911 has amassed.

Quoting na (Reply 47):
Have you ever driven a "classic" 911 from the 70s? Its not something I´d like to use every day, as its brute, hard as a brick, very noisy and ridiculously priced for what you get.

It's still better than Ferraris of the day.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 49):
Ferrari might have built more desirable cars than the 911 but they have never been able to build cars as well as Porsche does.

Porsches were not always the best built, but almost certainly better than Ferraris of the same age.

Quoting na (Reply 50):
If it comes to interiors, I also like recent Porsches (ca. post-2005) more than Ferraris.

The 997 falls a bit in the middle of Porsche interiors. It's definitely moved beyond the interior of the 996, which was pretty similar to that introduced to the 944 in 1985, but isn't nearly as good as the Panamera-esque setup of the 991.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7372 posts, RR: 5
Reply 52, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3465 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 51):
It's still better than Ferraris of the day.

How do you know, you can't drive a stick, you are just repeating what you've read, I've driven a 328, it was ok, I've also driven an early 80's 911, I didn't like the floor hinged pedals but I wouldn't say it was any better or worse than the 328. That said my 91 MR2 GT felt faster than both, easier to drive and much cheaper to own.

There are all these awesome classic cars out there which you will never be able to drive, trust me being a passenger just isn't the same, nor is reading about them in a magazine, if I was you BMI I'd learn to drive properly ASAP.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15742 posts, RR: 27
Reply 53, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3460 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 52):
There are all these awesome classic cars out there which you will never be able to drive, trust me being a passenger just isn't the same, nor is reading about them in a magazine, if I was you BMI I'd learn to drive properly ASAP.

I'm more than willing to learn if the car calls for it. I wouldn't go out of my way to avoid buying a manual car (in fact there's a good chance I'll get one soon) but the fact remains that for modern cars, there is no reason other than preference to buy a manual. Modern computer controlled transmissions can shift faster than even the best drivers.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10735 posts, RR: 9
Reply 54, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 51):
No Ferrari model comes even close the the overall greatness and body of work the 911 has amassed.

Only because Porsche keeps repeating itself while Ferrari launches a stunner every 10 years. Besides the name and looking a bit similar a 911 of today is a totally different car than a 911 of the 70s.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 51):
Porsches were not always the best built, but almost certainly better than Ferraris of the same age.

Is that the key point in buying a super-sportscar? Not for me. For me exhilarating looks, rarity and emotion comes first. In all 3 categories Ferrari beats Porsche by far, and always has.

Btw, I doubt you have you even driven Ferraris like I did so you know what you´re talking about. In a few weeks I´m invited to drive 200 kms in the new 458 Italia of a friend who unfortunately lives too far away from here to go on a Ferrari ride regularly.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15742 posts, RR: 27
Reply 55, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

Quoting na (Reply 54):
Only because Porsche keeps repeating itself while Ferrari launches a stunner every 10 years

There have been some losers in the bunch. Some of those '80s cars weren't so hot. And then there's the FF. There were also the 914 and 924, but still. Ferrari isn't throwing out hit after hit, they stumble from time to time.

Quoting na (Reply 54):
Besides the name and looking a bit similar a 911 of today is a totally different car than a 911 of the 70s.

They kept the dumb engine placement. It's creeping forward, but slowly and they also play tricks with weight distribution to get it decent, but to some degree it's all band aid engineering.

Quoting na (Reply 54):
Is that the key point in buying a super-sportscar?

No. There's also the whole going fast thing too. And for what it's worth, a 997 Turbo and 458 have the same factory claimed 0-60 times and the Turbo has been clocked at under 3.

Quoting na (Reply 54):
In a few weeks I´m invited to drive 200 kms in the new 458 Italia of a friend who unfortunately lives too far away from here to go on a Ferrari ride regularly.

Just hope you don't stumble upon a McLaren.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7372 posts, RR: 5
Reply 56, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3437 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 53):
Modern computer controlled transmissions can shift faster than even the best drivers.

Auto isn't as much fun to drive as manual.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 55):
There were also the 914 and 924, but still.

Nothing wrong with the 924, there were some really good ones like the Carrera GT/GTS and Turbo.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 55):
They kept the dumb engine placement. I

Nothing dumb about the engine placement either, 911 has pretty awesome traction out of corners, the old ones were a little hairy going in but that's part of the 911 aura.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 55):
Just hope you don't stumble upon a McLaren.

Why in just about every motoring test I have so far read the 458 is the better car.


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3761 posts, RR: 11
Reply 57, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3437 times:

Quoting na (Reply 40):
Now if you had chosen its bigger brother,

I like how the W114 is more accessible, more of an everyday workhorse of its time. I like its mundanity... It's lines are simpler than the S class as well and less 'ostentatious', I guess.
The W108 is a beautiful and great car too, but I don't really like the 'African Dictator' vibe...

Quoting na (Reply 54):
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 55):

Modern cars bore me. They're like iPads. Fun for a few years, and then they go wrong and no one can fix them so you buy a new one.

Let me try and steer this topic back to proper cars, starting with the 911s that mattered, before they became the Matrix on wheels:



Those will become hugely expensive with time. A knackered 2.7 shell due for a total restoration can't be found for less than 10,000€ these days. And those are the cheaper Targa versions... Ditto the 3.2.
That said, they're extremely user friendly, cheap to maintain and easy to work on.

The 944s are still cheap. They'll hit the bottom of the curve and bounce back in a few years I think.
928s are nice too, but a bit more upmarket and a bit too complex for my taste. I think the electronics on it will be a nightmare to keep up.
924s are cute little cars. I'd still consider one as a fun everyday drive. I'd rather be seen in one than a Miata...



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7521 posts, RR: 23
Reply 58, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3422 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 48):
I like that 1971-1972 LTD convertible. Luckily those are rather common and aren't too expensive.

There's always a few posted on eBay. One oddity of those Ford convertibles (I'm not sure if the '69-'70 Fords or the larger Mecury models did similar) is that the rear seat back is almost vertical; the seat backs in the standards coupes are more normal and reclined. While most weren't buying the '71-'72 LTD convertibles necessarily for its rear seat, I was taken aback by that oddity when I first saw one of those up close and personal. I'm guesssing that the reasoning behind the more upright rear seatback was to allow more room for the top (when folded) without cutting too much into the trunk.

Quoting Aloha717200 (Thread starter):
For example, who could forget the 1970 Dodge Challenger that appeared in Vanishing Point?

That particular '70 Challenger is at Floyd Garrett's Muscle Car Museum in Seiverville, TN.

http://musclecarmuseum.com/index2.htm

Now that I have a little bit of time, I'll post 3 of my all-time favorites:

1969-70 Mercury Marauder



1964-66 Ford Thunderbird (except the '66 Town Landau)
'66 standard T-Bird model shown


1964 Ford (full-size)
Galaxie 500 sedan shown
http://bridgetownblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/1964-ford-galaxie-500.jpg

While I certainly have other favorites, those 3 strike me the most.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15742 posts, RR: 27
Reply 59, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 3405 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 56):
Auto isn't as much fun to drive as manual.

That's a fair opinion to have, and for modern cars, about the only compelling reason left to buy manual. Perhaps purchase price as well, but with economies of scale that may not be the case so much anymore.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 56):
Nothing wrong with the 924, there were some really good ones like the Carrera GT/GTS and Turbo.

True, but those can be rare and pricey. The average 924 is slow and I don't care too much for the looks. The deeper front and fender flares did wonders for the 944. Personally I'm in the market for a 944 S, S2, or Turbo. The price is right, it's reasonably practical. Plus later ones started getting modern creature comforts. I don't know what my mom would think of me owning a Porsche without airbags or ABS, but for the right car I won't care.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 56):
the old ones were a little hairy going in but that's part of the 911 aura.

That's most of the problem. The new ones don't have much of the bowling ball on a string feel anymore, but when you have Porsche not putting a limited slip differential into the Cayman S, it's hard to make a compelling case for the rear engine from a performance standpoint.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 56):
Why in just about every motoring test I have so far read the 458 is the better car.

Gotta be the sound. The MP4-12C is a really good car and in many respects better than the 458. But it sounds like a tractor in comparison.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 57):
928s are nice too, but a bit more upmarket and a bit too complex for my taste. I think the electronics on it will be a nightmare to keep up.

They are a little too big and heavy for my taste. Plus I don't think the looks have aged as well as the 944 and 968.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7372 posts, RR: 5
Reply 60, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3375 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 59):
The new ones don't have much of the bowling ball on a string feel anymore, but when you have Porsche not putting a limited slip differential into the Cayman S, it's hard to make a compelling case for the rear engine from a performance standpoint.

There are a number of compelling points GT3, GT3 RS, GT3 RS 4.0 & GT2.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 59):
Gotta be the sound. The MP4-12C is a really good car and in many respects better than the 458. But it sounds like a tractor in comparison.

You're opinion differs from every test I've ever read, I'd love to see which publication you read which had the 12c beating the 458.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15742 posts, RR: 27
Reply 61, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3364 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 60):
There are a number of compelling points GT3, GT3 RS, GT3 RS 4.0 & GT2.

What you have to consider is if an equivalent mid-engined car could perform better. I'm inclined to think that it could, but that wouldn't stop me from driving a 911.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 60):
You're opinion differs from every test I've ever read, I'd love to see which publication you read which had the 12c beating the 458.

I've seen a lot of articles that like the Ferrari better but here's the catch: it's almost always for subjective reasons. They like the feel, passion, engagement, etc. For my money, I'd take the McLaren: more power, less weight, likely lower price and if it feels a bit more robotic and lacks the Italian passion and soul, well, that's just the price you pay to go a bit faster. The same argument was made when comparing the Nissan GTR vs. Porsche 911.

Car and Driver, did pick the McLaren by the way:
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...n-test-2012-mclaren-mp4-12c-page-4



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1833 posts, RR: 1
Reply 62, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3359 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 59):

That's a fair opinion to have, and for modern cars, about the only compelling reason left to buy manual.

Fun is the only compelling reason to buy a +200hp car.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10735 posts, RR: 9
Reply 63, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3341 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 55):
Just hope you don't stumble upon a McLaren.

Not likely, as no one buys them. Also the 458 has won several tests against the McLaren, and its design is cooler. McLaren could be anything, they dont have the certain style Ferraris mostly have.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 55):
There have been some losers in the bunch. Some of those '80s cars weren't so hot. And then there's the FF. There were also the 914 and 924, but still. Ferrari isn't throwing out hit after hit, they stumble from time to time.

Ferrari launches new models about twice as often as Porsche, and I agree they built less than great cars from time to time, but thats a rarity. The F50 and F512 werent great, and I do not like the styling of the current California. But also Porsches 924 and 944 were crap, the 928 an old mans car which wasnt so great either, the 959 was ugly, and the Cayenne, while being a sales success, is a hideous "nouveau riche" car.

But enough of that, this thread is about classics, and here is my catch from the late 80s to mid-90s. Imho the coolest affordable 4-door built during that period, and a great drive (I had two of them):


Alfa 164


User currently onlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7372 posts, RR: 5
Reply 64, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days ago) and read 3317 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 61):
What you have to consider is if an equivalent mid-engined car could perform better. I'm inclined to think that it could, but that wouldn't stop me from driving a 911.

The GT3 RS 4.0 and GT2 are just as fast as the 12c and 458, so that argument doesn't wash. Also Porsche has been the dominant force in sportscar racing for decades, the 911 is the yardstick which all others are measured against.


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MLB Playoffs 2009: The Division Series Thread posted Sun Oct 4 2009 16:51:50 by Mir
The Other Gun Thread posted Wed Apr 8 2009 04:04:35 by BN747
The Completely Random Thread posted Mon Apr 6 2009 06:40:09 by Gkirk
The Official IPhone Thread posted Sun Oct 25 2009 02:13:40 by A1ring23
The Official Anarchism Thread! posted Tue Oct 20 2009 07:49:16 by Averageuser
MLB Playoffs 2009: The Championship Series Thread posted Mon Oct 12 2009 20:56:56 by LTU932
MLB Playoffs 2009: The Division Series Thread posted Sun Oct 4 2009 16:51:50 by Mir
The Classic Cars Thread posted Wed May 9 2012 11:32:13 by Aloha717200
The Flip Off Thread posted Wed Dec 29 2010 19:30:58 by Super80DFW
World Cup 2010 - The Pre-Inauguration Thread posted Mon May 24 2010 12:29:53 by LTU932
The Greatest Cars posted Thu Feb 11 2010 15:52:15 by Scooter01
The Facebook Farmville Thread posted Fri Nov 27 2009 20:02:34 by MCOflyer
MLB Playoffs 2009: The World Series Thread posted Sun Oct 25 2009 21:13:04 by LTU932
The Official IPhone Thread posted Sun Oct 25 2009 02:13:40 by A1ring23
The Official Anarchism Thread! posted Tue Oct 20 2009 07:49:16 by Averageuser
MLB Playoffs 2009: The Championship Series Thread posted Mon Oct 12 2009 20:56:56 by LTU932
MLB Playoffs 2009: The Division Series Thread posted Sun Oct 4 2009 16:51:50 by Mir