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Fbook Cofounder Drops Citizenship, Angers Senators  
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 40
Posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3377 times:

Quote:
Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin has come under increased scrutiny following news that he had renounced his U.S. citizenship to become a resident of Singapore.

The move drew criticism as reports pointed out that the move would save Saverin — who owns a part of Facebook — millions of dollars in taxes after the company goes public.

Saverin has denied that he is moving for tax purposes, and has said that his decision was based solely on his business investments.

On Thursday, Sens. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) and Bob Casey (D-Pa.) announced plans to introduce a bill to respond to Saverin’s move, which a news release from Schumer’s office called an “avoidance scheme.”

“The senators will call Saverin’s move an outrage and describe a plan to re-impose taxes on expatriates like Saverin even after they flee the United States and take up residence in a foreign country,” the release said, adding that the legislation would bar individuals like Saverin from re-entering the country.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...p/2012/05/17/gIQAPFCyVU_story.html


A more accurate name for the bill they proposed would be the "Shackling of Americans Act". A virtual Berlin Wall, indeed. . .

[Edited 2012-05-17 07:53:36]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
104 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5491 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3350 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
“The senators will call Saverin’s move an outrage and describe a plan to re-impose taxes on expatriates like Saverin even after they flee the United States and take up residence in a foreign country,” the release said, adding that the legislation would bar individuals like Saverin from re-entering the country.

What a load of horse$h!t! Why on earth are they making a big deal about this one thing? The tax code does have to be rewritten but this is just pandering and stupid. Even if it is solely for tax reasons why is it anything to be bothered about? Corporations do things like this (move ops offshore, shift money through foreign locations) all the time just to avoid taxes, there have been a few articles recently (one by the NYT on Apple's maneuvers) about what is done to avoid taxes and it is amazing.

If they want to go after something then go after those types of operations. But of course there will be HUGE lobbying and corporate money money thrown at Congress to leave things as they are and in fact if anything changes it will probably just benefit the corporations. Here this is just one guy so that probably explains it.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3299 times:

I laughed when I read this. I'm just waiting for the Democrats to march into Congress with this proposed bill wearing t-shirts saying "Death To Capitalism!"

This a knee-jerk patriot move that makes absolutely zero business sense. By imposing expat taxes and barring re-entry to the country, they're not only alienating the people holding the wealth, but are essentially signing away any potential future investment! Just because someone denounces their citizenship and runs with their American-made dollars, it doesn't mean that there won't be any future inflow of cash back to the US via foreign investment, partnerships, etc. If anything, this is going to encourage promising new ventures (or entrepreneurs with big ideas) to take their potential out of the country before registering it as an American entity (this is becoming the norm for corporations).

Saverin is clearly lying through his teeth about his real motives behind changing citizenships, but I'm not sure why. There's no way that bill is going to vote before the Facebook IPO. If I were him, I'd be getting on that SQ flight with my suitcase of cash and my middle finger in the air.

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
A more accurate name for the bill they proposed would be the "Shackling of Americans Act". A virtual Berlin Wall, indeed. . .

  



Flying refined.
User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3604 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3273 times:

I don't know about the bill but I find Saverin despicable. He used the resources of this country to make his fortune and then renounces the most valuable thing any citizen has, his citizenship. All to avoid paying taxes in the country that made him rich.

User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5491 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3246 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 3):
All to avoid paying taxes in the country that made him rich.

Everyone that can, does this to some extent. As they say, never pay taxes unless you absolutely have to. I pay my taxes but I use every tool offered to minimize them to what is absolutely required (doesn't mean I don't support returning tax rates to where they were ten years ago though).

Whether noble or ignoble, Eduardo Saverin is doing what he feels is best for him and is within the law and his rights to do. And I am OK with that.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7247 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3235 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 3):
I don't know about the bill but I find Saverin despicable. He used the resources of this country to make his fortune and then renounces the most valuable thing any citizen has, his citizenship.

Why should you care if he goes, he wasn't even an American to begin with, the guy is Brazilian by birth, he didn't use any US resource's to make his fortune, without his personal fortune Facebook might not have existed. BTW he's also been living in Singapore since 2009.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8824 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3198 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
Fbook Cofounder Drops Citizenship, Angers Senators 

Funny as hell. They are more upset at him taking his money away with him than asking themselves what policies they came up with that drove him away.

Thousands of very wealthy (mostly retired) Americans have abandoned their US citizenship and taken off over the past few years thanks to the FATCA law (which was Sen Schumer's brainchild). Capital flight is a historic problem in countries who try to tax too much - never thought we'd see the day that the US would have that problem, but here we are.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3183 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 3):
I don't know about the bill but I find Saverin despicable. He used the resources of this country to make his fortune and then renounces the most valuable thing any citizen has, his citizenship. All to avoid paying taxes in the country that made him rich.

If you look at Facebook's history, and their current business model, you'll find that being American had very little to do with making him rich. Heck, the man who originally invested in Facebook, Peter Thiel, isn't even American, he's German.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3871 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3164 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
The senators will call Saverin’s move an outrage and describe a plan to re-impose taxes on expatriates like Saverin even after they flee the United States and take up residence in a foreign country,” the release said, adding that the legislation would bar individuals like Saverin from re-entering the country

This is total kneejerk. "We cannot allow the wealthy to rewrite their own rules"--well, every other American has the exact same right to do this. I dont see how this bill can be enforced unless you impose rules on various overseas banks and the like, the costs of which would be imposed on all other Americans.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11258 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3130 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
A more accurate name for the bill they proposed would be the "Shackling of Americans Act".

So you have no problem at all with tax dodging?

I'm not saying I agree with the Senators or not, just trying to get an understanding for where you stand.

[Edited 2012-05-17 11:25:34]


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User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5491 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3099 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 9):
So you have no problem at all with tax dodging?

I'm not saying I agree with the Senators or not, just trying to get an understanding for where you stand.

I know you aren't asking me but I'll jump in because I don't understand your question.

By "dodging" are you implying it is something incorrect to do? Even though it is legal and well within his rights to do? Or are you not OK with the normal/legal things that everyone does to minimize their tax liability?

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11258 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3042 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 10):
By "dodging" are you implying it is something incorrect to do?

I think we can agree that it raises serious questions. Sub-prime lending was legal too. Didn't make it right.

It's also legal to move your money in off-shore accounts, but we both know the intent of doing so is so that you can hide the money and not share with IRS (as required) how much you've made off that off-shore account.

Quoting tugger (Reply 10):
By "dodging" are you implying it is something incorrect to do?

By "dodging" I mean that it is highly suspect that right before he's about to receive a major windfall, he denounces his citizenship and will therefore have a much smaller tax burden.

How many people do you know renouncing their citizenship? Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Follow. The. Money.



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User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8824 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3038 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 9):
So you have no problem at all with tax dodging?

If the money is earned in the US, by all means it should be taxed in the US.

By saying that he is bugging out to move to Singapore, that does not mean that he's not going to pay taxes on the sale of Facebook. If he earned it in the US he still has to pay taxes. Any investment bank which handles the IPO will find themselves in very hot water if they collect money for the shares and then wire those funds, no taxes paid, offshore. Nobody is disputing that

But once he has his millions (or billions), post-tax, he's going to spend them in Singapore, not in the US. That annoys people like Shumer, who seems to believe that US citizens should be chained in the country and not allowed to emigrate or to take their money out of the country. Oddly like the Soviet Union back in the day, but I'm sure he doesn't see the similarity.

Of course he would not have to give up his US citizenship if the US would respect tax territoriality like all other civilized nations.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11258 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3014 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
But once he has his millions (or billions), post-tax, he's going to spend them in Singapore, not in the US.

If that's all that happens, I don't give half a crap what he does with the money. I mean, sheeeeet. I'm about to blow a bunch of American dollars in the EU in about a month on vacation.  

Well, I give half a crap, but only in a "Buy American" sense.



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User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15727 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2998 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
The senators will call Saverin’s move an outrage

Why would that do that? The senators want to impose more taxes, Saverin doesn't want to pay taxes. So problem, solution, everybody wins.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 2):
Saverin is clearly lying through his teeth about his real motives behind changing citizenships, but I'm not sure why. There's no way that bill is going to vote before the Facebook IPO. If I were him, I'd be getting on that SQ flight with my suitcase of cash and my middle finger in the air.

Why should he say anything other than that he's trying to avoid taxes? It's not like they won't allow him to renounce his citizenship. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned, taxes are negotiable like anything else. If he can find a country to make him a citizen at a lower tax rate, good for him.

Quoting mham001 (Reply 3):
He used the resources of this country to make his fortune and then renounces the most valuable thing any citizen has, his citizenship. All to avoid paying taxes in the country that made him rich.

America did not make him rich. His ideas, work and innovation made him rich. I find the notion that the country can make you rich and that personal wealth is essentially a trust from the nation despicable.

Quoting us330 (Reply 8):
"We cannot allow the wealthy to rewrite their own rules"

That's easy: just don't let it happen. But if we write rules that dig our hands too deep in the cookie jar, people will do exactly what Saverin is doing.

Quoting D L X (Reply 9):
So you have no problem at all with tax dodging?

No. People should do whatever possible to minimize tax liability.

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
I think we can agree that it raises serious questions.

Not really. Either you owe the tax and you have to pay it, or you don't. Do everything possible so you don't.

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
By "dodging" I mean that it is highly suspect that right before he's about to receive a major windfall, he denounces his citizenship and will therefore have a much smaller tax burden.

It would be more suspect if he didn't.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinehomer71 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2242 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2991 times:

Is this the same Eduardo Saverin portrayed in The Social Network by Andrew Garfield?


"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8216 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2980 times:

I have no problem with the guy changing citizenship. But when he surrenders his passport he will be standing in line for visas like anyone else. I doubt, however, that that will bother him.

Considering the fact that a very large amount of money is involved my bet is that he will also be tagged at the IRS for audits on an annual basis for all US based income.


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4564 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2980 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 12):
But once he has his millions (or billions), post-tax, he's going to spend them in Singapore, not in the US. That annoys people like Shumer

That is not the point of Schumer's bill.
Schumer's bill is concentrated squarely on the taxes due on money made in the US, which even Saverin has stated he will pay.

The real issue here is to go after folks that are leaving the US Citizenship soley for Tax Purposes.

Not that I particularly agree with the bill since corporations get to do it all the time, but don't make Schumer's bill into something it isn't.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8956 posts, RR: 40
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2975 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 6):
Capital flight is a historic problem in countries who try to tax too much - never thought we'd see the day that the US would have that problem, but here we are.

Indeed. And with it, a lot of investments. And eventually a brain drain too.

Quoting D L X (Reply 9):
So you have no problem at all with tax dodging?

Avoidance strategies, no problem at all. Evasion - I would never recommend it to anybody.

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
Sub-prime lending was legal too. Didn't make it right.

Borrowing to people or institutions with low or awful credit quality is something the government does massive amounts of as a matter of public policy.


Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
How many people do you know renouncing their citizenship? Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Few, but growing numbers:

http://intltax.typepad.com/.a/6a00e54fb13f518834016304ed09fe970d-pi

[Edited 2012-05-17 14:22:34]


"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8824 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2945 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 17):
That is not the point of Schumer's bill.
Schumer's bill is concentrated squarely on the taxes due on money made in the US, which even Saverin has stated he will pay.

Schumer was one of the creators of FATCA, which was tailor-made to put in punitive taxes on "US Persons" (citizens, foreign spouses of citizens, anyone who ever got issued a SS number because of a student visa, etc), living overseas, who had money overseas (such as inherited from a foreign family member). Cases I have personally heard about have seen punitive taxes amounting to 50% of the entire fortune, and in one case over 100% - i.e. they took away the family's millions and they still owe more because of the fees due to accountants and lawyers.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7394 posts, RR: 17
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2909 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Thread starter):
A more accurate name for the bill they proposed would be the "Shackling of Americans Act". A virtual Berlin Wall, indeed. . .

You can't tax a non-citizen....simple as that.

If this bill passes, I'm going to burn my passport and become a nonstatesman.

I highly doubt this will pass though. Highly unconstitutional.

Either way I am about to join this man's ranks in about 10 or 15 years if American politics continue down this same road.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinecpd From Australia, joined Jun 2008, 4879 posts, RR: 38
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2884 times:

Quoting mham001 (Reply 3):
I don't know about the bill but I find Saverin despicable. He used the resources of this country to make his fortune and then renounces the most valuable thing any citizen has, his citizenship. All to avoid paying taxes in the country that made him rich.

This is the benefit of small government ideas, less regulation - letting entrepreneurs go about the business of getting wealthy without being impeded.

If you are innovative enough to be wealthy, you should be given incentives. This sort of thing doesn't give anyone an incentive to try to become wealthy.  


User currently offlineCompensateMe From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 1125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2878 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
America did not make him rich. His ideas, work and innovation made him rich. I find the notion that the country can make you rich and that personal wealth is essentially a trust from the nation despicable.

LOL, seriously? Since when does ripping off MySpace equate into ideas and innovation? Users initially flocked to Facebook because the site was seemingly more private (you had be invited/seemingly confirm your identity) before it became a hot fad.

Can you name one other country that gives somebody the opportunity to rip off somebody else's idea, improve on it and have it become a global fad to the tune of a $100B market value?

(That doesn't mean I think he should have to pay taxes. But that's not what I'm responding to.)



Hypocrisy: "US airlines should only buy Boeing... BTW, check out my new Hyundai!"
User currently offlineaa757first From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3347 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2842 times:

A huge number of shoppers are at Pennsylvania's King of Prussia mall because PA doesn't subject clothes to sales tax, unlike NJ. NJ, DE and MD make a lot of liquor sales to Pennsylvanians trying to escape the PLCB's monopoly. AZ and NV are full of Californians who got sick of the state's income tax structure.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 22):
LOL, seriously? Since when does ripping off MySpace equate into ideas and innovation? Users initially flocked to Facebook because the site was seemingly more private (you had be invited/seemingly confirm your identity) before it became a hot fad.

Well, first of all, MySpace itself was a rip off of Friendster. Facebook was launched just a few months after MySpace and was different in that your university affiliated was a huge part of your profile. MySpace never had networks and focused mainly on high school kids.

A lot of enormously successful products involve just slight modifications of existing products. The iPod, for example, was just a slight redesign of existing MP3 players. You might not find it innovative, but the market disagrees.


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5491 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2842 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
By "dodging" I mean that it is highly suspect that right before he's about to receive a major windfall, he denounces his citizenship and will therefore have a much smaller tax burden.

How many people do you know renouncing their citizenship? Doesn't that strike you as odd?

Follow. The. Money.

Well honestly I don't find it suspect at all. He is most probably doing NOW it to avoid the tax consequences (and if he is who really cares). But the thing is he is only nominally connected to the USA, he is perfectly free to do what he wants. As others have alluded to, what are we becoming a financial USSR? If you are here you can't leave, "you and your stuff are ours"? That's asinine.

It does not strike me as odd at all that he is renouncing his US citizenship. I was born here so this is my home country, I also live here and have a life and family here so it is absolutely my first and one and only home country. But if that wasn't the case, why would I care about keeping a US citizenship? And then add to that the fact it would cost me millions upon millions of dollars to do so? Yeah, I'd drop it too.

Quoting CompensateMe (Reply 22):
Can you name one other country that gives somebody the opportunity to rip off somebody else's idea, improve on it and have it become a global fad to the tune of a $100B market value?

China?  

By the way the one word you used is key to the success of the USA throughout history: "Improve".

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
25 StarAC17 : Have you seen The Social Network, he got screwed over by Zuckerberg and sued under the DOJ to get shares and money as compensation and now stands to
26 Post contains images EA CO AS : And then you'll be tracked down and SB1070'd outta here, alien.
27 Aesma : I wouldn't chose Singapore as a tax haven either, but there are other options. Now, he says he's doing business there and that's very possible. The wa
28 stasisLAX : Saverin is a tax-evading "internationalist". He was born in Brazil (his father is a wealthy import/export and real estate mogul), the family moved to
29 Pyrex : You know what I find despicable? The U.S. taxing people it deems U.S. citizens for tax purposes (with arbitrary IRS criteria defining who it should a
30 PSA53 : And what is of big concern is Zuckerberg himself who might not be too far behind Saverin in renouncing his citizenship.Zuckerberg has made no secret
31 Mir : If he wants to go, let him go. And then treat him like any other foreigner. Make him apply for visas to come back just like anyone else. No need to im
32 StarAC17 : It's simpler than that, he created something people wanted. Being in America was a catalyst because there is no Internet censorship (you would never
33 us330 : "doesn't want to sell FB"--the site is having its IPO tmw, you realize that? You really do need to supply a source when you are making outlandish sta
34 CompensateMe : I certainly don't disagree with your first statement. But I do disagree with you and a previous poster that Facebook (initially) added "ideas" and "i
35 PHX787 : LOL! And i'd be proud of that. Boy, we sure do like taxing people, don't we? Shouldn't it be against international law to tax someone who isn't a nat
36 zhiao : It absolutely does. Why do you think a huge portion of successful high tech and internet firms originate in USA? Facebook was able to launch due to t
37 zippyjet : Money talks you know what walks. Hopefully he will take advantage of the local lovely female population.
38 aa757first : I think there is an automatic deduction of about $100,000 when you're abroad, which would probably cover a lot of income for someone living in the de
39 Mir : That's already in the laws on visa eligibility, though it says that avoiding paying taxes is grounds for visa rejection, not automatic visa rejection
40 Post contains images Superfly : This is something that I've been griping about in the other tax related threads. This is unbelievable! Agreed! Many foreign banks are closing account
41 CXfirst : Well, Singapore does not allow dual citizenship for non-born citizens. So for Saverin to get citizenship, he was required to be a permanent resident
42 Post contains images Superfly : I know several and they're not all 'rich'. The girls in Singapore are much nicer and prettier than in Miami.
43 StarAC17 : I don't think you have to pay but you are required to file a return that says that you didn't earn any income in the US. Most of the issues that US c
44 Aesma : IIUC you have to pay the difference between local and US taxes, so if local taxes are higher (like here in France) then you don't own the IRS. Still
45 bjorn14 : The funny thing is most capital gains investment by foreigners is NOT taxed by the US He renounced it last year so it's a done deal and there is a 18
46 Pyrex : Dude, it is the IRS, they can do whatever the hell they want. Since when did lack of evidence ever stop the sociopaths running their international ta
47 Post contains links us330 : I don't know for sure--and that kind of information can presumably be found in the legislative history for the act, which includes the various debate
48 Dreadnought : I was working at Credit Suisse in 1989 when it was announced that we bought First Boston, following UBS's purchase of Warburg. I remember the talk in
49 Mir : It's the State Department, actually - they're the ones who issue visas, not the IRS. -Mir
50 MD11Engineer : In Germany, if you are a resident, you´ll have to disclose your non-German income, but not if you reside outside Germany for more than 180 days a yea
51 AviRaider : Ha Ha, you must be joking! Ivy Leaguers aren't really any more brilliant or innovative than any other educated person. The hardest part is getting in
52 bjorn14 : Unless you make over $92K and then your subject to US and foreign taxes. It's both. State to renounce your citizenship. IRS (Form 8854) to say you ha
53 Dreadnought : The problem is (apart from the fact that the US feels justified in taxing you if you work and live in a foreign country) is the $92K limit. To Americ
54 CompensateMe : What revolutionary ideas/innovation did Facebook bring to the market? It was one of many similar social networking websites developed to address the
55 moo : It wasn't revolutionary or new, but the idea of a fixed experience was what made Facebook better than the alternative - you had your profile and your
56 Post contains images YOWza : With all due respect to our American members I would say that a US passport is really not that valuable and not even as valuable as it used to be 10 y
57 bjorn14 : Not only that it is subject to the whims of Congress. In 1980, it was at an all-time high of $180K and fell most in the 80's. Expats are easy to targ
58 us330 : so, if funds were generated in the US but moved off shore, would taxing those funds be acceptable?
59 Dreadnought : Let me repeat myself: So yes, if the money results from activity in the US, it should be taxed in the US. If the activity is in another country, it s
60 zhiao : @Yoh, You are saying things. Obviously the US passport is the most actively sought if you look at visa applications and inflows of students. The notio
61 moo : Are people getting a little confused here between personal income taxation and corporation taxation? If Facebook earn money, then as a US company they
62 Dreadnought : Slight modifier here. If Facebook has foreign entities, such as a German subsidiary which sells facebook services (ad space, premium games etc) to cu
63 seb146 : Romney Romney Nothing like being a good patriot and supporting this country with words then pulling all your money out to keep in any other country.
64 Dreadnought : That's what Edward Kennedy did. And George Soros. Taxes are not 'Christian charity'. Charity has to be voluntary. You have to willingly give somethin
65 PPVRA : "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" - Samuel Johnson
66 zhiao : I find it ironic that people are slamming the US for taxation when it's one of the lowest tax regimes in the developed world. Yes the foreign tax rule
67 YOWza : My command of the English language apparently has failed me because I flat out don't understand what this sentence means. Getting a visa is NOT the s
68 zhiao : Of course it's an indicator of wanting to get a passport. A huge number of those who get educated from abroad want to stay in the US , but many leave
69 CompensateMe : I don't disagree. But those features weren't unique; Facebook was one of several similar social networking websites developed in response to criticis
70 ALTF4 : So, you don't buy any GE products, or use products that GE influenced, right? Doubtful, if you ever fly, which I assume you do. There's a not-too-old
71 Post contains images Superfly : It's the entire world that have issue with this. Damn right! You're missing the point. Americans in developing nations such as Malaysia, Argentina, B
72 MD11Engineer : It is not just this, but the IRS requires foreign banks to disclose all bank details about American (or those who are married to an American or had a
73 zhiao : @Superfly, Like I said, the foreign tax amounts to nothing. Plus this is netted against the Thai taxes. When the next tsunami hits, whose nation's mil
74 DocLightning : Stop. This is not Obama's rule. Let's not lay the blame for everything at his feet. This rule has been in place for a LONG time. And it's about time
75 petertenthije : By that logic everyone in the pacific should be paying taxes to the USA to cover the humanitarian aid the USA so generously has provided and/or will
76 Post contains images Dreadnought : Nope. FATCA was passed in 2009 as part of the Obama's 'Jobs Bill'. It is 100% a Democrat creation, championed by Chuck Schumer who's had a hardon abo
77 Post contains images PHX787 : There is so much Obama and his democrat congress passed under our noses, it's quite easy for them to pin the blame on Bush, because simply we have no
78 Post contains images Superfly : The US Embassy here is absolutely useless. I never run to them for jack$h!t. Providing aid after a disaster has nothing to do with the ability for ou
79 Dreadnought : Yes there are. Typically they are very small banks, with no offices or assets outside of Switzerland. But the IRS is going after them as well, by ind
80 us330 : It's also cost of compliance. For many of these banks, American expats are such a small portion of the customer base that it simply isn't worth the f
81 bjorn14 : Yep. Most embassies couldn't get you out of a parking ticket. (Not their job I know, but you get the point.) This was the same bill that Kennnedy was
82 Dreadnought : And it affects anyone with assets of more than $50,000. Hardly billionaire level.
83 Post contains images PHX787 : and coming from someone from San Fran, too! I'm impressed. (unless you're being sarcastic)
84 Flytravel : NJ doesn't have sales tax on clothing. MD does. To your point, people in neighboring states do shop in DE to avoid sales tax on items like electronics
85 Superfly : My goodness! This sounds like a nightmare. You're correct! I read that the bar was set at $10,000 of money going in & out of a bank account withi
86 YYZatcboy : so whats to stop people from not paying. say for instance i was married to an american but i was not an american and if the usa thought i was then eli
87 Post contains links MD11Engineer : A moment, please! The extraterritorial tax laws existed already for a long time. Mr. Ardwinckle of http://www.debito.org described how he had problem
88 Post contains links Superfly : FATCA takes it a step further which is resulting in non-US banks deciding to close all accounts Americans. http://www.aca.ch/joomla/index.php?o...ont
89 zhiao : No, because the point of humanitarian aid is that it's a gift, i.e. lacking consideration and a bargain for exchange. In the case of the tsunami and
90 Superfly : You are talking about 2 completely different issues. I earn Thai baht, not US dollars. My income is generated locally so there is no need for the IRS
91 mad99 : So if i understand correctly... This facebook guy has to renounce his us citizenship so he's not taxed on any income over the 93k limit earned in anot
92 Dreadnought : Did you get a US passport or a greencard? If so, then yes. He is a US citizen, so the law requires that he file taxes every year.
93 moo : That's quite tyrannical...
94 mad99 : That's quite impressive!! And knowing the US, i'll bet they ask of a Visa at the point of entry..the plastic kind!!
95 us330 : The threshold issue is not where you were born, who your parents were, etc.--its whether you are a us citizen or not. If that person born to US paren
96 Dreadnought : Correction: The requirement to file US taxes does not depend on whether or not you are a US citizen, but whether you are a "US Person". A US Person c
97 Arrow : Funny -- I've been waiting for this topic to hit A.net for many many months now and I'm quite pleased that Saverin has stirred the pot. He is the tip
98 Post contains links Arrow : Canada's Finance Minister Jim Flaherty has sent a couple of strongly-worded letters on FATCA to Clinton, and copied them to a few newspapers. He also
99 bjorn14 : Not even to the extent the US does. They require their expats to contribute a 2% income tax to a country infrastructure fund (after 20 years of war w
100 Dreadnought : Thanks for the story. Based on what I have heard from my own acquantences and my parents, it all ties in perfectly. The good news is that there is so
101 Superfly : Thanks for posting. That is just insane what our government is doing. I've heard similar stories from many long-term expats. I hope you're right. FAT
102 PHX787 : I may be forced to join this list. I've always been threatening to emigrate to Japan, but even there, it's difficult for foreigners. What the US is d
103 bjorn14 : I wish I could believe this was true but as I wrote before......
104 StarAC17 : US tax law in US business and the rest of the world really doesn't care what happens in US borders but the IRS needs to back off on people who do not
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