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Lockerbie Bomber Has Died In Libya  
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2230 times:

Sky News reporting that the Lockerbie bomber has died in Libya.

This is breaking news and more can be found on news.sky.com

Will the truth be buried with him ? Or will new information be released by his Family ?

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinejwhite9185 From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 1255 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

Seem to remember him only having weeks to live - about 3 years ago which is why he was released from prison.

Cant say i have a huge amount of sympathy for him. I know he was somebody's son, brother etc but he didn't have an awful lot of compassion for the people he killed.



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User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26853 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2189 times:

A BBC update here :

Lockerbie bomber Megrahi 'dead'

Abdelbaset al-Megrahi, the only person convicted over the 1988 Lockerbie bombing above Scotland, which killed 270 people, has died at home in Libya, his brother has told news agencies.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18137896

---

Quoting jwhite9185 (Reply 1):
Cant say i have a huge amount of sympathy for him. I know he was somebody's son, brother etc but he didn't have an awful lot of compassion for the people he killed.

True but Im not 100% convinced he did it . Alot think he was set up or used by Gadaffi to take the blame. Even one of the victims Fathers never believed it was him.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13039 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2125 times:

I hope his death was long, painful and he goes to the deepest ring of Hell with all the other dead terrorists and despots. Perhaps with this sick bastard and Qaddafi dead more truth about how the terror attack on PA 103 will come out.

User currently offlinegingersnap From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2010, 893 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2091 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
I hope his death was long, painful and he goes to the deepest ring of Hell with all the other dead terrorists and despots. Perhaps with this sick bastard and Qaddafi dead more truth about how the terror attack on PA 103 will come out.

Perhaps.

What is disturbing that whether or not you believe he was behind the bombing, there is no way he could have acted alone I don't think. There are people walking free right now who probably had almost as much to do with it as he may have done.

The most popular "alternate" view appears to be it was an Iranian commissioned bombing, in revenge for the USS Vincennes shooting down IR655 5 months prior killing 290 people (more than the fatalities as a result of PA103). This is also my opinion of the situation, and I still believe the actual perpetrators are still walking free/have since died.

But we also shouldn't forget that during the Libyan civil war, a former government official claimed that Gaddafi personally ordered the attack. It's safe to say we will probably never know the full truth behind those tragic events.

[Edited 2012-05-20 07:44:21]


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User currently offlineferengi80 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 687 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 2012 times:
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Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
True but Im not 100% convinced he did it

I am convinced he was an innocent man. Megrahi was convicted simply because the American's wanted someone to frame for the bombing of Pan Am 103. I would strongly recommend anyone who wants to learn more read Their Darkest Day by Tom Foster and Matthew Cox, which gives insight in to the case behind Megrahi's conviction.

What we need to remember is that Megrahi was convicted on the evidence given by a Maltese storekeeper Tony Gauci, who said that he sold clothes to Megrahi that were found to be in the suitcase containing the bomb. However, Gauci said that he could not be entirely certain it was Megrahi he sold the clothes to, nor what date he sold them on. There is even cause to believe that Gauci saw a photo of Megrahi four days before he picked him out in a line up, and that he was paid $2 million for his evidence by the US Justice Department.

I only hope that, now, after Megrahi's death, the truth will finally come to light.



AF1981 LHR-CDG A380-800 10 July 2010 / AF1980 CDG-LHR A380-800 11 July 2010
User currently offlineNASCARAirforce From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3178 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1800 times:

I don't know anything about the whole trial etc of Megrahi, but did he try to maintain that he was innocent and wasn't behind it? That is a good sign that he might not have been guilty if he did because as you see in the terrorists on trial today they are proud of what they have done and shout "Allah Akbar" n court and try to make a mockery of the justice system

User currently offlinedamirc From Slovenia, joined Feb 2004, 724 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1771 times:

NASCARAirforce ... he went to his grave always maintaining his innocence.

A good documentary (Lockerbie: Case closed) by Al Jazeera is below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XxMfxYUP6VI#!

The most damning evidence against Megrahi was:

- T.G.'s identification of Megrahi as the buyer (which was very shaky, considering T.G. saw a photo of Megrahi 4 days before he picked him out in a line-up in a newspaper - I'm not sure, but the magazine in question might have been Focus). The initial description of the mystery shopper (by T.G.) was quite different to Al-Megrahi. The date when the clothes were bought is also quite uncertain (anyone interested in it can find heaps of info on the net). In his first interview TG listed all the clothes that were bought by the mystery shopper - he was very exact, even told how much money he received, and how he returned the change in banknotes. No gray Slalom shirt on that list ... The problem lies in the fact that the timer fragment was found embedded in the gray Slalom shirt. And this brings us to the next point ...

- the MeBo timer fragment (tagged as evidence PT35b) which tied Libya to PA103, since Libya was one of the major buyers of the said timer (some of it was also bought by the Stasi, I don't know about the rest). Well, turns out that even the PT35b timer fragment has a problem with it. The timer was produced by the Thuring company for MeBo. They only used a 70/30 alloy of tin and lead in the plating on their PCBs. The PT35b however had pure tin plating - which means that either the lead evaporated (and which experimentally doesn't seem possible) or the PT35b fragment is not of the MeBo batch (wouldn't like to speculate where it came from).

Another supposed evidence, that was supposed to tie in Megrahi to PA103 was the testimony by a M.G., who was a Libyan CIA asset, but even his handlers considered his information unreliable - from what I've read about it he would testify his mother was a goat given the proper reward (sorry for being blunt about it). The testimony however was widely disregarded by the judges at Camp Zeist.

The major problem with the trial was inequality of arms - which in itself makes the trial a sham.

Worth noting is that it's rather uncertain that the Samsonite suitcase actually travelled from Malta via Frankurt to Heathrow and then onto PA103. Air Malta still claims that all of the bags on KM180 were consolidated with passengers on the flight, that all of the bags were accounted for and there was no unaccompanied luggage on the flight itself.

It is my opinion, that Iran (via PFLP-GC) was involved in the bombing, and that the 5th Khreesat bomb that was never recovered was the one that brought PA103 down.

D.


User currently offlinenighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5126 posts, RR: 34
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1769 times:

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 6):
I don't know anything about the whole trial etc of Megrahi, but did he try to maintain that he was innocent and wasn't behind it?

He always maintained that he was innocent, and appealed against his conviction numerous times. He was in the process of making his final appeal when he was released, and most news reports seemed to suggest that there was some new evidence going to be used that would help get his conviction overturned. In the end he was offered release on compassionate grounds, on the condition that he dropped his final appeal, which he did.

Cant help but feel this was part of the reason why he was offered compassionate release when he was - to save the embarrassment of having his conviction overturned.

Quoting jwhite9185 (Reply 1):
Cant say i have a huge amount of sympathy for him. I know he was somebody's son, brother etc but he didn't have an awful lot of compassion for the people he killed.

That's because he always maintained that he was innocent.

I am not entirely sure how I feel about his passing. I'm not entirely convinced he was responsible for the attacks, most of the evidence against him seems very tedious, and as pointed out above, revolves mainly around the testimony of a shopkeeper from Malta who thinks it was him he sold some clothes to.

If he was involved, then he almost certainly didn't act alone, and did so on the orders of the Libyan government. I just wish the truth would finally come out, so that the families of the victims can finally get some closure and know for sure exactly what happened, and why.



That'll teach you
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1262 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1722 times:

Quoting gingersnap (Reply 4):
The most popular "alternate" view appears to be it was an Iranian commissioned bombing, in revenge for the USS Vincennes shooting down IR655 5 months prior killing 290 people (more than the fatalities as a result of PA103). This is also my opinion of the situation, and I still believe the actual perpetrators are still walking free/have since died.

I'm not sure if this view is that "alternate" any more. I was reading a book recently called "A Time To Betray" about a member of the Revolutionary Guards who became a spy for the US, and he seemed to indicate that the Guards had their tendrils so firmly implanted throughout the Islamic World that practically every terrorist action was authorized by the Ayatollah. In addition a high ranking guards member is said to have backed up the theory above.

Of course this is all hearsay, but it seems the most likely theory to me.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1608 times:

Quoting ferengi80 (Reply 5):
Megrahi was convicted simply because the American's wanted someone to frame for the bombing of Pan Am 103.


Well now that he's gone perhaps we will blame you. Guys like you crack me up. Americans are attacked but the real crime is that we Americans feel the need to blame someone and are willing to pay for the privilege. That's funny...   


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19408 posts, RR: 58
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1577 times:

His virgins are waiting for him eagerly.

Here's one:


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7133 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1545 times:

Quoting jwhite9185 (Reply 1):
but he didn't have an awful lot of compassion for the people he killed.

the question remains did he actually do it, or was he a patsy (highly likely IMO).


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 1507 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 11):
His virgins are waiting for him eagerly.

Here's one:

But actually there will be gay virgins waiting for him. 300lb each one, and dominant.


User currently offlineqantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1417 times:

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2012/s3511657.htm

yeah...well it seems the judge has serious doubts about the guilt and trial, perhaps we might finally get the truth with Megrahi now deceased.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1381 times:

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):

Sure, he took the blame as the doctors THEN told him that his life expectancy was below two years. Libya, taken by the USA in spite of really responsible Iran, was under pressure to "deliver" somebody responsible. His only "secret" was that he could have confirmed that Libya had nothing to do with the crime in question. His second secret was that he found out first hand that modern medicine can stretch your life


User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1343 times:

Quoting soon7x7 (Reply 10):
Quoting ferengi80 (Reply 5):Megrahi was convicted simply because the American's wanted someone to frame for the bombing of Pan Am 103.

Well now that he's gone perhaps we will blame you. Guys like you crack me up. Americans are attacked but the real crime is that we Americans feel the need to blame someone and are willing to pay for the privilege

I don't know what the truth of the matter is. It is true that when people are attacked and lose someone they love that they wish to strike back, they want someone held accountable and they want someone to pay. I doubt if their is a single person who wouldn't feel differently. Problem is that it does create a lynch-mob mentality.

However the man was not convicted by a US Court. So it is facile to suggest that he was simply convicted out of a desire for revenge. There are problems with the dubious nature of the evidence presented. Some evidence was of doubtful value and some not presented. There is a possibility that he was innocent but is there a probability? Who knows. All round it appeared convenient but why was he released on condition that his appeal not be heard?

As I say, I don't know whether he was innocent or not. What I do know is that his conviction will not have brought some people the closure they hoped it would. My sympathy goes out to those who lost someone they loved wherever and whoever they may be.


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7133 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1306 times:

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 16):
It is true that when people are attacked and lose someone they love that they wish to strike back, they want someone held accountable and they want someone to pay.

That's why I believe it was Iran, they wanted revenge for the Iran Air 655 attack, which the US weaselled out of.


User currently offlineME AVN FAN From Switzerland, joined May 2002, 13920 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1277 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17):
It is true that when people are attacked and lose someone they love that they wish to strike back, they want someone held accountable and they want someone to pay.

That's why I believe it was Iran, they wanted revenge for the Iran Air 655 attack, which the US weaselled out of.

It of course was Iran, but the USA did not want to have the limelight on the failure of the US Navy

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 16):
why was he released on condition that his appeal not be heard?

because both British and US authorities in charge KNEW that the reality was not as they wanted it to be


User currently offlineOzGlobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2711 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 1250 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
I hope his death was long, painful and he goes to the deepest ring of Hell with all the other dead terrorists and despots. Perhaps with this sick bastard and Qaddafi dead more truth about how the terror attack on PA 103 will come out.

You prove that the American authorities were right to take a scapegoat in this case: as it's always been since the West was opened up, when ever a heinous crime is committed, too often American society wants a 'scalp' far more than they want justice: put up a 'Wanted' poster, mosey up a posse and 'get your man'. Execute him or lock-him up and everyone feels better. Justice of course can take time and require one to be open to abandon prejudices, assumptions and bias in order to get to the truth. Even some victims families are convinced this was a fall guy to allow 'closure' and avoid embarrassing focus on inconvenient truths.



When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
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