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I Think The European Union Should Become A Country  
User currently offlineF.pier From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1524 posts, RR: 9
Posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

That's my thought.

We are the origin of the world, we produce the best things of the world, except the computers, we have the most beautiful places to visit, in every single European town there is a long history, there are historical objects.
We have many different languages (but with a common root), we are competitive within us and this helps us to have a better quality.
We pretend to be so different, but we like the same things, the same foods, we have the same (good) colture with our small different declinations.

I 'd like to transform the European Union into a Country, a federal country which allows single States to keep their differences.

We can lead the world because we had lots of wars that made us grow and made us understand that they're absolutely unuseful.

We suffered so much in the past because of other separations, but now we're strong, we have a good economy which puts above all the person and not the profits.

Everywhere I go throughout Europe I'm sure to be cured if I go to an hospital, if I broke my leg.

Nodoby will deny health care if I don't have the money in the whole European Union. We have pensions, we have social assistance, but we have the free market which helps us to realize our dreams.

Who cares if the Euro is weak. My life is good, I'm sure my lifestyle is one of the best in the world.

I'm proud to be European.

THE EUROPEAN UNION, MY HOMECOUNTRY.



155 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMatt86 From Germany, joined May 2001, 254 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 4336 times:

Now, you are on my respected user list  Smile

I totally agree with your post.
THE EUROPEAN UNION, MY HOMECOUNTRY


User currently offlineMatt86 From Germany, joined May 2001, 254 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4329 times:

Btw, look here: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/184993/
United States Of Europe: What Do You Think?


User currently offlineFlyboy36y From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3039 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4329 times:

Fisr of all, I'm not against your Idea.

Second of all,

We are the origin of the world, we produce the best things of the world, except the computers, we have the most beautiful places to visit, in every single European town there is a long history, there are historical objects.
We have many different languages (but with a common root), we are competitive within us and this helps us to have a better quality.
We pretend to be so different, but we like the same things, the same foods, we have the same (good) colture with our small different declinations.


You are an ethnocentric "person". I use person instead of asshole, jerk, or other such words.



User currently offlineHepkat From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 2341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4326 times:

I've been advocating this for a long time now. When you compare the U.S. to the E.U., we are more efficient precisely because we're federated. I don't buy this argument about individual states losing their culture and way of life, for if you look at the U.S., each state is semi-sovereign, with their own laws, courts, legislature, president, culture, way of life, and even language if they wanted to.

The benefits to federalization overwhelmingly outweigh any disadvantages. Once you get into the U.S., you can freely travel throughout any of the states, where there's a common way of doing things, which means transparency and above all, simplicity. Take for example a simple thing like telephone numbers, here in Europe it's a nightmare. I once had a write an administrative program for a company here in Vienna, and when we got to the telephone area code and number fields in the database, I realized just how having 15 different ways of doing things can cause you a major headache. Telephone numbers here can be as short as 4 digits and as long as, well, who knows? Area codes are sometimes 2 digits, 3 or even 4. There's no uniformity. With a common system, this would save so much money, time and effort.


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4320 times:

We are the origin of the world...

The ORIGIN of the world? There's a lot of greatness in the history and culture of Europe, but I think you give Europe too much credit here!!

This thread only validates my claim about the Socialist-Leaning EU. It would be a sad, sad day if the nations of Europe completely gave up their national identities for some Steril country call "Europa" or whatever.



User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4318 times:

not only are you enthocentric, your arguements are flawed.

'we are the origin of the world' No europe is not, the first humans came from africa.

'we produce the best things in the world, expect the computers'. That is incorrect. Britain produced the first computers during ww2 in order to crack the german communication codes. Britain(indeed scotland) invented the television. Britain invented the telephone, the radio etc etc.

Who invented the aeroplane?

We have langauges with the same root. No we dont. Basque, a language in spain has no similarities with any other language in the world. Celtic (including welsh) has no links with french.

Germanic languages are not the same as latin-based languages not to mention finland and russia who seem to have a seperate language base nor greek which cannot be seen the same as italian for example.

'we pretend to be different' wrong. We are different. We have different cultures. Take britain compared to france for example. France and italy have far more in common than france and britain. The french culture is family based, large families still live together in rural areas. This does not happen in the uk, the uk is farmore americanised than the rest of europe.

the nordic countries have a different outlook on life. Ireland has a different way of life from britain and france. In britain the english are different from the scots and in italy there is a great north-south divide, in fact your country is in in effect two countries in one.

Take sport-The british and french play rugby, the germans dont for example.

the french eat different foods from the spanish, the germans eat different food from the irish.

we are all different cultures and races, we arent the same, that doesnt mean to say we shouldnt have a european union but you cant expect europe to be a single state. We have different vaules, different economies and different ways of life not to mention different laws. Each country serves the needs of its own citizens, those needs cannot be met if the eu was one country.






It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4310 times:
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No i disagree. Making a EU comparison to the EU is very vague. For a start, the US one big country at the moment, the EU isn't. The EU has many different languages in it, so if it were to become one big country, what would be the default language and who would decide what language to speak? Each EU country has it's own history/culture/lifestyle and way of life. The British culture and style is more geared towards the US, the spanish have their own indentity, the french have their own history and eastern european countries are even more different than western euro nations. So how do you merge all the differences together? A complete nightmare.

The term "European" is very vague indeed, if i said i was African, what would you think? Nigerian? Kenyan? South african? Senegalese? who am i? The same could be said about Europe, am i French? Italian, German or what? How will you identify yourself? calling yourself just "European" gives a false sense of identity. People want to belong to their independent nations, and Europe is a Continent, how would we suddenly turn it into a country?

Arsenal@LHR



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4301 times:

hepkat-europe has free travel between its borders, although it did help al-queda in their terrorist plans because they could move freely and unchecked.


It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineGaut From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 344 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4294 times:

EU should have an elected president who speak for all the European countries to balance the USA power, but USA don't want to see such a thing, they are already opposed to the EU army!!


Go Canada!

It's the differences that makes our force...
You says: "Each country serves the needs of its own citizens, those needs cannot be met if the eu was one country."

That's false and egocentric. Europe is based on mutual aid and helped all member countries. All those countries give money to EU but continue to invest money for their own citizen, it's the same in USA!

Alpha 1,

What do you mean by Socialist-Leaning EU?

Do you mean an EU with a high social spirit that help all the citizen?? If yes I'm proud to live in a socialist-leaning EU!!


Gaut



«Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae.»
User currently offlineMcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4294 times:

If you think merging companies with different cultures and different ways of doing things is a nightmare, merging countries is many times worse. (In both cases, there are only two kinds of mergers: controlled chaos and out-of-control chaos.)

Merging countries requires merging all the components of those countries. You would have to merge everything from education departments to social services to foreign policy to postal service to the individual militaries.

Not to mention you'd have to write a federal constitution that simultaneously pleases everyone without being too cumbersome or complicated, which is a thankless task. You'd have to deal with demands for 'special status' from particular countries. And then there'd be that little matter of electing a European head of state who, at best, might speak only three or four of Europe's many languages.


User currently offlineHepkat From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 2341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4289 times:

Europeans always tie themselves up in knots when anyone mentions the thought of a single Europe. No one's advocating giving up your culture and way of life. Rather, people are saying it would be better and more efficient to unite as a federated country, like the U.S., comprising of 15 different semi-sovereign states. There's no need to give up your language, cuisine, way of life or anything like that. By having a federalized union, you'd have ONE army, ONE central government (chosen by the different states of course, with representatives who vote), ONE border, ONE immigration policy, ONE system of telephone numbers/addresses/zip codes/social security numbers/identification cards/etc, ONE set of federal laws which covers the most important and basic things, ONE supreme court, ONE aviation authority and its set of rules. Each state could then legislate their own system of taxation, health care, court system, which language to use, transportation or anything that directly affects their citizens on a day to day basis.

I'm convinced the American version of federalized states is by far the best compromise between federal powers and the rights of states.


User currently offlineGo Canada! From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 2955 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4289 times:

gaut,

that is not the case, some countries, eg britain and germany pay more to the eu than they get out of it, other countries such as ireland and portgual recieve more than they pay in.

The needs of britain cannot be the saem as the needs of say spain. Britain is increasing government spendign at a rate that the EU doesnt like. Britain is increasing health care and defensive spending yet a country such as belguim doesnt need a large army etc etc.

The eu has already told ireland off for not stickign to spending rules.

wqhat will you do when you country is stopped from spending money on something it needs or when the interest rates dont suit your economy.

you cannot compare the eu to the usa as the usa was not a collection of centuries old-independent countries.



It is amazing what can be accomplised when nobody takes the credit
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4282 times:
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The USA always spoke one language, english, in europe everybody speaks their own language. Do the Italians and Greek want to adopt English as their default langauge if it was decided english would be the federal language? I don't think so.




In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineNik From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4276 times:

I would love to see the EU as a single country - I certainly feel much more European than Danish...
And so what if we are "different". Only people on the extreme right demand that citizens in a country have to be the same, have to eat the same food and so on.
The EU is making common laws that apply all over the EU - it is a process that at some point will mean that we WILL see a European country - not in the very near future, but in some years, when people learn that their prejudices about other European countries are wrong - and see that we aren't that different where it matters - diversity isn't always a bad thing either.

When I look a my passport it says "Den Europæiske Union" first and THEN "Danmark" - my driver's license has the EU flag on it with "DK" in the middle - and I like it.
We will see a United States of Europe - the biggest question is whether the UK is going to be a part of it - I doubt it...

"You are an ethnocentric "person". I use person instead of asshole, jerk, or other such words."

What F.Pier has said is not much different from what many Americans often say about the US - do you use the same words about them?


User currently offlineHepkat From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 2341 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4274 times:

I think the official language issue is of very minor importance. It should be the very last issue discussed, and that in itself should not prevent EU from federalizing.

Furthermore, if the EU became a federal entity, it would no longer need to extort dues from each member state. It should instead insititute a federal tax on individuals and businesses in order to raise funds for the federal government, as is done in the US. This would immediately do away with this unfair system of some countries contributing more than they get out, and would level the playing field for all.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4265 times:

The USA always spoke one language,

Then how do you explain Boomhauer?:D

Seriously though, the US federal system is not ideal because too much power is given to the central federal government.

The system we have now was favored by Jimmy Madison. He favored a strong central government while Tommy Jefferson favored the rights of the states.

Anyway in order to ensure his ideals where passed Jimmy rigged the timing of the constitutional convention to make sure that Tommy was off serving as the American Ambassador to France during the convention.

When Madison floated the convention he only said that it was to consider amendments to the Articles of Confederation, not for the wholesale destruction and replacement of that important document. All of the delegates showed up in Phillidephia thinking that was all they where going to be doing.

It was only because some of delegates saw through what Jimmy was doing (Thomas Paine walked out the first day saying of Madison and his setup, "I smelt a rat") that any sort of states rights where saved.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlinePanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4260 times:

>>We can lead the world because we had lots of wars that made us grow and made us understand that they're absolutely unuseful.<<

Iraq has had a lot of wars, so does that make them a world leader?

The only way a country can become a world leader/super power is its economy.

As referenced here:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2281-304219,00.html

If the EU was to become one, the USA will still be the only economic power in the world.



Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4260 times:
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OK, so there have been diferent languages spoken in the US, or different dialects, but for how many people in the US, english isn't their first language?




In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineMcdougald From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4255 times:

Hepkat wrote: "This would immediately do away with this unfair system of some countries contributing more than they get out, and would level the playing field for all."

Don't count on it. Here in Canada, we have a 'transfer payment' system in which three or so wealthier provinces subsidize the rest. It creates resentment from time to time, and does more harm to the poorer provinces than the richer ones by taking away the incentive to pursue greater prosperity through policies that encourage wealth creation.

You can bet on a federal Europe having some similar mechanism in place -- the poorer European countries would insist on it in return for their concessions and compromises. With the same resentments and same destructive effects.


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29813 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4256 times:

Along the Mexican border....quite a bit.

There are also a lot of people out in the bush up here who speak, Athabaskan, Inupiat, or Aleutiq instead of english as their first language.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineJaspike From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2008, 1 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4246 times:

There would be no Euro 2004...

Bad idea. Well, I wouldn't like England/Britain/UK to be in it. Countries in Europe are losing there individuality. There would be no PM's/Presidents/Royal Families. It would be interesting if there was a civil war..Or maybe not Smile/happy/getting dizzy

There are loads of other reasons why I think the EU shouldn't be one country, but I can't be bothered to type them all at the moment Big thumbs up

Josh
 Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently offlineTechRep From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4245 times:

I agree with this but the language spoken must be French or they will never go along with it.

TechRep


User currently offlineF.pier From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1524 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4240 times:

Matt, I've read your thread link and I totally agree with you.

Somebody says that latin languages and german languages are so different, OK, I agree, but many words are the same, and then, consider that there are a lot of different languages which are mixtures of languages.

In the place where I live, in Italy, we obviously speak italian, but in my dialect there are a lot of german and french words and also the grammar is quite different from italian.

I don't see the problem: the most of young people speak english (I'd prefer to speak german, but this is only my personal opinion).

Maybe there is a problem. YES, I agree, The European Union has a BIG problem. It's name is: UNITED KINGDOM.

You wanna slow down the process of integration, you don't want the single currency, you don't want a lot of things.... why?

I can understand you're an island and you like to be isolated, but please, if you wanna integrate yourself with us, DO IT and don't be so boring (I'd like to have the UK in the EU Country), but if you DON'T WANT, say it now and let us free to reach our target, the building of the COUNTRY.

Feel free to do what you want, but once you've chosen, DON'T argue with us if we wanna get integrated or if we wanna have the same fiscal system.

Nik says a lot of good things: i feel proud, too when I look at my passport and first of all I see "European Union".

I hope Denmark to join Euro as soon.

When somebody says that we eat different food he's right, but the differences aren't so strong, for example the basic foods are the same, we use the same cereals, the same vegetables, the same fruits, the same meats.

We hate the same foods, I think everybody in the EU doesn't eat dogs!!!!!!

The sports? OK, OK we play different sports, but WE ALL PLAY AND LOVE FOOTBALL and the most common sport in the whole EU is definitely FOOTBALL (that's why I'd like so much to see Germany win the World Championship....).

I don't say to refuse your origin, it would be a mistake. But be conscious that the European Union is the best place on Earth where to live.

I love the idea of United States of Europe.

I'd like to have a common President, I'd like to have an EUropean Ambassy all over the world (why there still are so many European different embassies around the World). In fact we can already go in one of the EU members Embassy if we have problems if there isn't the own country embassy, but I'd like to have a single embassy.

I hope to see my beloved USE active in my life.

Thank you





User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16335 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

The EU may become a country, but it's too soon. The EU is still a work in progress, still expanding. If it ever stops growing and stays static for a period of time, it could gel its various national institutions etc along the lines of a country. But this is probably at least a generation away.

If anything, the continued expansion of the US by admitting peripheral European countries will only encourage the EU to remain at best a loose federation at best.

IMHO
Neil



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
25 Racko : At first, the EU has to be fair! Some countries gain much money and power through the EU (like France), while other countries lose money through the E
26 Gaut : I'll take an example that I know well: Belgium We live in a federal country with 3 regions and 3 official languages! The federal gov collect money and
27 Post contains images David_itl : Slightly ironic that we have someone deciding that 1 big country is best when we have had the former Soviet Union break up into it's constituent repub
28 Cyril B : I don't care if a unified EU could be as powerful as the US... This is not the goal of the EU construction. If the british are unhappy or if they want
29 LOT767-300ER : "'we produce the best things in the world, expect the computers'. That is incorrect. Britain produced the first computers during ww2 in order to crack
30 Post contains images Nik : "I hope Denmark to join Euro as soon." So do I The latest Gallup polls show that 60% of the Danes support joining the Euro, so we'll just have to see
31 Arsenal@LHR : Is that how ignorantly they teach you over there? The Polish cracked enigma first of all. Secondly, i can name millions of products you guys cant make
32 Banco : OK, to try to assess this idea rationally, you need to go back to the Treaty of Rome, which espoused the idea of "ever increasing union", so it is har
33 Post contains images Klaus : Banco: Individual nations and governments have always been out for their own interests, which is of course what you would expect from sovereign states
34 Post contains images Banco : I think you misunderstand me, Klaus. That wasn't a particularly anti-EU post, it was merely pointing out the dangers and difficulties inherent in enga
35 Post contains links NoUFO : That is incorrect. Britain produced the first computers Ahem, incorrect, too. It is widely accepted that Konrad Zuse invented the computer: http://ei.
36 Avion : I just wanna say that if the EU becomes one single nation i can see it last. Just look at Switzerland with several different cultures and it we've bee
37 Alpha 1 : Maybe there is a problem. YES, I agree, The European Union has a BIG problem. It's name is: UNITED KINGDOM. Far as I can tell, they're about the only
38 Sccutler : History is a good teacher. If the time comes when Europe is united as one country, I believe it will be known (or at least effectively dominated) as "
39 Jiml1126 : It's just like getting all Star Alliance members merged into a GIGANTIC airline!
40 Paulc : English first British second european - last
41 Airblue : "Britain invented the telephone, the radio etc" Both were invented by two Italian: The radio by Marconi. Telephone by Meucci, but his idea was stolen
42 Post contains images PHX-LJU : Alpha 1 wrote: >>If you're all so eager to give up you long-held national identities for "Europa"... Who's giving up their national identities, Alpha
43 Alpha 1 : Who's giving up their national identities, Alpha 1? If you read what the supporters of closer EU integration have written, most believe that these cou
44 Matt D : For all of you that are saying ONE this, ONE that, ONE blah-blah-blah. Do any of you Europeans remember the following phrase, and what happened therea
45 Post contains images Airsicknessbag : There are tendencies in the legal community which opine that the EU is already a country of its own right. They argue the EU fulfils all the classic c
46 David_itl : Daniel Do they list the conditions for statehood so that the ordinary person can work out for themselves whether the EU is already a "country"? David
47 Go Canada! : im sorry but no britain had the first computers and we cracked engima (see history of station X, bletchley park, without the uk german communications
48 Post contains links and images G-KIRAN : First I would like to sort something out about who invented the computer.Remember in the year 2000 Time produced a series of magazines called the Time
49 Go Canada! : G-kiran, thanks for talking sense, its an excellent post. The countries of the eu take a pick and mix approach to what they like and dont like, you ca
50 Krushny : Could you please tell us why Spain supported Argentina in the Falklands conflict? In 1982 Spain was not in the EU, do not accuse us of disloyalty. Al
51 Gaut : Alpha1, Please explain me why you mean by socialist leaning EU!!! I don'y want to attack you but I want to understand. Actually, EU is already a count
52 Post contains images PHX-LJU : Alpha 1 wrote: >>"How can the U.K. slow it down? If they drag their feet, then the rest of Europe should tell them "it's been nice knowning you", and
53 PHX-LJU : G-KIRAN wrote: >>"So end the end it is down to US not YOU who will decide what role we will play in the EU.If we dont want remain,then fine we will le
54 Bigo747 : My opinion: A. It should be the people's decision. B. My life is good, I'm sure my lifestyle is one of the best in the world.. So is mine. You don't s
55 Post contains images Jaspike : G-KIRAN, that was great Couldn't have written it better. The question is: Will the EU want a member that does not agree with the policy of ever-closer
56 PHX-LJU : Jaspike, But if you don't want Britain to become integrated more closely with the EU, should your country remain a fully-fledged member of the Union?
57 Arsenal@LHR : It is up to the people of the UK to decide if they want to integrate more with the EU and get closer to europe, people like me. So if the UK populatio
58 Post contains images OO-AOG : F.PIER Nice post. I consider Europe as my home country as well, and definately consider me as an EC srong supporter. I just want to tell the usual eur
59 Go Canada! : gaut, clearly the knowledge regarding the uk in europe is flawed, while a few patients have gone to france for a fewops, the NHS is free, i was making
60 PHX-LJU : Arsenal@LHR asked: >>"So if the UK population decide no, say no to the Euro, then what can you do?" Perhaps the EU could then end Britain's status as
61 Go Canada! : why should a single currency exist when it is not good for the people who use it? why should any country be pushed into a currency when its economy ca
62 Nik : Hmmm, I'm confused - Alpha 1 says the EU is Socialist, Matt D says it reminds him of a Nazi project - which is it? - can't be both.... I think the UK
63 Banco : Most British users that have responded to this thread seem to hate the EU and Continental Europe - apparently we are only trying to destroy your count
64 PHX-LJU : Go Canada! wrote: >>"why should a single currency exist when it is not good for the people who use it? why should any country be pushed into a currenc
65 Go Canada! : the eu cannot survive without the uk and if some people actually wake up they will realise that the uk, spain and italy an joinign together in an alli
66 Nik : "Individual nations and governments have always been out for their own interests, which is of course what you would expect from sovereign states. Look
67 OO-VEG : A merger is not the solution. Co-operation is. Becoming a United States of Europe wouldn't benefit much I think. A merger is often seen as THE solutio
68 Go Canada! : nik, does us a favour and put forward valid reasons why superstate should occur and not just 'well its going to happen anyway' or 'the eu has already
69 PHX-LJU : OO-VEG wrote: >>"If I look at the USA I don't think that is a bright example of a success that we need to have as well." You don't think that the US i
70 Post contains images Klaus : Go Canada!: it seems that europeans are desperate for the uk to join asap in the hope that the euro might actually be worthwhile. Of course. When has
71 Go Canada! : i have to echo OO-VEG arguements for co-operation, not one single state. Klaus, i would appericate your opinion, im sure you are for intergration, not
72 Post contains images Banco : Klaus, how dare you! I've been saving up loads of ammunition for you and now you say you are time-constrained. This is completely unacceptable! Get yo
73 Alpha 1 : In 1982 Spain was not in the EU, do not accuse us of disloyalty. Based on heritage, Krushny, I believe that Spain would do the same thing. Just becaus
74 Post contains images Gaut : Go Canada! gaut, clearly the knowledge regarding the uk in europe is flawed, while a few patients have gone to france for a fewops, the NHS is free, i
75 Banco : Gaut, These ideas would be controversial in much of Europe,but you do realise there is absolutely zip chance of getting the British to go along with t
76 Post contains images Airsicknessbag : David, ummh, yes, these conditions, ahem, it´s been quite a few years since I attended the Public International Law course - I´ll try to remember or
77 LMP737 : Where would the capitol be? Paris-The English, Germans, Spanish, Dutch, Danish etc would not go for it. London-The French, Germans, Spanish, Dutch etc
78 Gaut : LMP737, EU has 2 non-official capitals: Strasbourg (EU Parliament) and Brussels (EU Commission) The future capital could be one of those cities. Gaut
79 PHX-LJU : Alpha 1 wrote: >>Many of them already have widespread socialisim in the realms of healthcare, childcare and the like, where the state pays much, if no
80 Post contains images Klaus : Go Canada!: Klaus, i would appericate your opinion, im sure you are for intergration, not a supertstate, after all you did say that no european leader
81 Mcdougald : Gaut wrote: "...a real gov elected by EU citizen, a strong united political power to balance the USA..." Easier said than done. First of all, for Euro
82 Alpha 1 : Yes, but this has nothing to do with the European Union. Most European countries became welfare societies well before the EU was created. You missed t
83 Travelin man : "Once again if we don't have a European army today it's because USA don't want to see such an army." Gaut, you obviously don't read the Economist (I g
84 PHX-LJU : Alpha 1 wrote: >>"And state-sponsored programs is another way of saying "socialism"." Well, according to this, every country on Earth is socialist, be
85 Gaut : Mcdougald, I agree with your first point but not totally with the second one... If we have a real gov election in Europe we will have global transeuro
86 Gaut : Travelin man First I have nothing against the UK and I read English publications but not the Economist. Europe don't want to compete with USA militari
87 Travelin man : countries would like to have a common army to spend less by buying together. First of all, Europe does NOT want to spend on the military. That is a si
88 Klaus : Guys, just before the sillyness reaches another peak, I´ll have to step in here: There is no serious problem with german A400M financing! The Bundest
89 Travelin man : Hey Klaus, bring it up with the Economist.
90 Klaus : I don´t care who´s got no clue.
91 Donder10 : The Euro displayed a long-term weakness when (the ECB?) failed to enfore the 3%of GDP rule.The single European army is a touchy subject-Nato et al etc
92 Travelin man : If you have better information, please link it. Or should we just take your word? Klaus, simply belittling an international Economics magazine by sayi
93 Klaus : Travelin man: If you have better information, please link it. Or should we just take your word? Klaus, simply belittling an international Economics ma
94 Boeing4ever : Ok, form one country. And eliminate the hard-won sovereignty of many nations. I doubt if the people of Europe are truly willing to go that far.
95 Boeing4ever : Poor Poland will join the EU in 2004, and already the French and German are trying to screw them. They've been kicked around for the past 200 years. T
96 LMP737 : Gaut: Strasbourg as an EU capital-The English, Germans, Italians, Belgians, Dutch, Danish etc would not go for it. Brussels as an EU capital-The Engli
97 Post contains images F.pier : Europe is different from the US, so we don't need to become like you. We need to preserve our differencies, this is our strenghth. This doesn't mean t
98 Rickster : I doubt that OUR generation will see a european superstate with ONE President, ONE Parliament and ONE Government. Maybe next generations are able to c
99 Krushny : I also do not see a UNA, GRANDE Y LIBRE Europa. And the goal should not be to create a big nation state , as I think most of the people want to keep
100 Go Canada! : you will not have one europeam president nor one single capital, its a lovely dream yet it is totally unrealistic. Nationalism in europe means that no
101 OO-VEG : PHX-LJU: OO-VEG wrote: >>"If I look at the USA I don't think that is a bright example of a success that we need to have as well." You don't think that
102 Rickster : Go Canada, I don´t think that a single European Army will duplicate Nato, as there are some states left, wich are not Nato members and/or still havin
103 Go Canada! : Yes and those states will not want to be part of a single european army. "European countries are much more smaller and therefore can't afford such mil
104 Post contains links Flying-Tiger : First of all I think the United States of Europe are still a long way to go but wil come at one point in form of a Europe by regions, effectively repl
105 Post contains images Alpha 1 : Alpha1, before trying to say more about Europe you better get over here for a LONG trip through the member states, otherwise your posts are worthless.
106 Post contains links Flying-Tiger : At least I know about the countries I speak, contrairy to you... might be that the last paragraph was born out of frustration about your ignorance but
107 Post contains images Nik : "...but do you think I'll really stop speaking my mind because the Europeans don't like what I say? Hardly." I doubt anybody who has been on the forum
108 Paulc : perhaps if the EU decides it no longer wants britain then maybe we can use the money that we would stop pouring into it to do something useful rather
109 Arsenal@LHR : English first, British 2nd - europe a very distant third There's no point arguing, this sentence very much sums it all up. Arsenal@LHR
110 F.pier : It's very interesting the fact that here the most of continental EU citizens are pro EU, and the most of UK citizens are cons. Maybe this fact has a m
111 Post contains images Airsicknessbag : David, the three classic conditions for statehood are - territory - people - state authority Quite vague, but that leaves room for many pointless disc
112 Arsenal@LHR : *ahem* Europe is a continent like Africa and asia, not a acountry!
113 F.pier : Arsenal, what about "America"? It's a continent isn't it? Or a country???
114 Airblue : It's very interesting the fact that here the most of continental EU citizens are pro EU, and the most of UK citizens are cons. Maybe here on A.net, bu
115 F.pier : Airblue, I definitely disagree with you. Historically Italy is one of the most pro Europe country, and in the last election won a coalition of right p
116 F.pier : And then I said "the MOST of continental EU citizens", not ALL european citizens".....
117 Gaut : Alpha1 Well, I neither have the time nor the money to make a "LONG" trip through the members states. And I doubt very much it would change my opinion
118 David_itl : America is a country. Add in Canada and you have the continent of North America. The European Union is not a country, as any dictionary/encyclopaedia
119 Mcdougald : The impression I get from following this thread is that those who envisage a single, united European federation are focusing too much on the dream of
120 Travelin man : Some of you (usually coming from Anglo-Saxon countries) have to understand that money is not the most important thing in the World, you are so selfish
121 Rickster : Flying-Tiger I agree with you on a Europe of regions. Same here in my area. I think we will probably have three regions here. Bavaria-south west Czech
122 Post contains links Gaut : First I want to say that I am not a big fan of the "non-aviation" forum but this time I have to admit that this topic is really civilized and I really
123 Donder10 : It's sad, but the European Union must grow Why? foreign policy and a social harmonization That's where the problems come in.The Euro needs a harmonize
124 Travelin man : That's fine to think Europe should become a single country. Practical reality says it will not happen, or if it does, it will be at least another 100
125 Gaut : Donder10, I completely agree with you EU needs consolidation before growing. Travelin man, Nobody said Europe will be in a single country tomorrow it
126 Post contains images Alpha 1 : Somehow I think that would be very difficult to prove.... I think it would be very difficult to disprove, Nik, so maybe we're even. Please visit the E
127 PHX-LJU : Alpha 1, If you'd know more about Europe, you'd realize that "Europa" means Europe in many, if not most, European languages. The word does not refer t
128 PHX-LJU : BTW, the terms itself comes from ancient Greek and Latin.
129 Donder10 : Political harmonization will prove alot harder than social harmonization.Common policies on various themes will be easy to mould but the big political
130 Alpha 1 : Alpha 1, If you'd know more about Europe, you'd realize that "Europa" means Europe in many, if not most, European languages. The word does not refer t
131 Gaut : Donder10, Before the recent French elections, Mr J. Chirac promised the restaurants that he will lower the taxes but today he admit it wasn't possible
132 Donder10 : Well then why don't we add our Northern African neighbours too?You can pay to bring the Eastern bloc economies up to line if you want.I don't.
133 Go Canada! : THE EU does need to reform and expansion may not be a bad thing, if handled correctly, yet i will state for the countless time, no-one has put forward
134 Airblue : Go Canada, you are 100% right about Italy. Mr. Berlusconi had a big contrast with the foreign minister because Mr. Ruggero had a too open position pro
135 Mcdougald : Gaut wrote: "EU is based on solidarity and we have to help our European neighbor's." That's the spin that's being put on it, but there's more than tha
136 Post contains images G-KIRAN : I think you forgot a letter in your last sentence, let me correct you So end the end it is down to USA not YOU who will decide what role we will play
137 Nik : "So what I want to know is how would Europeans(with all your far right parties and all that) feel when Britain becomes a part of the some superstate a
138 G-KIRAN : Ahh, great; so now you are accusing people on the Continent of being racists? No not really but I did talk about your very infamous far right parties?
139 F.pier : Airblue, you're saying that because of the fact that Italian government has a lot of euroskeptic ministers means that the population is euroskeptic???
140 Post contains images Airblue : the fact that Italian government has a lot of euroskeptic ministers means that the population is euroskeptic??? Maybe yes, otherwise why so many peopl
141 Go Canada! : italy is euro-spectic and is in effect two countries in one.
142 F.pier : Go Canada has decided that Italy is Euroskeptic and that it's two countries in one. Thank you for the explaination, now I'm happy. I can't believe, Ai
143 David_itl : F.Pier, did you do as I suggest and look at a dictionary in a language of your choice to find out what the European Union is defined us? If you found
144 Alessandro : Well, first one currency, after the election this fall I think Sweden will join. Great Britain and Denmark seem not to join soon, other wise I think E
145 F.pier : My homecountry is what I feel my homecountry. If you read in the dictionary the meaning of "homecountry" you wouldn't read strange things, you'll only
146 Airblue : Airblue, when you say "maybe yes", I don't understand you because the center right in its electoral program NEVER said to be euroskeptical but they al
147 Go Canada! : oh so 62% of italy is against a european state, Italy has a euro-spectic centre right govermnet The main pro-european minister in the government is sa
148 OH-LZA : Finnish and Russian do NOT share the same language root. Finnish is a Fenno-Ugrian (sp?) language, Russian is a Slavic (sp?) language. Finnish shares
149 F.pier : Airblue, where did you read that percentage? From datamedia? I can show you dozens of other surveys saying exactly the opposite. Berlusconi recently s
150 Banco : F. Pier: "I sincerely don't understand why a single European shouldn't want a strong Europe, there's no reason" On that, I'm sure there's no argument.
151 Post contains images F.pier : I said Europe, but I meant European Union. Europe itself is only a continent, the European Union is MY ONLY HOMECOUNTRY.
152 Post contains images SQ325 : I don't think the european union should become a country! I have a problem with this idea. I'm not very proud of my country but there are countries in
153 Go Canada! : f.pier are you still proud of the eu even though its disrupting ailitalia, italys national airline by refusing it to have an alliance with air france(
154 Klaus : Go Canada!, I´m pretty certain the EU commission doesn´t care how much the national governments spend on certain issues (unless it´s anti-competiti
155 Nik : "Great Britain and Denmark seem not to join soon" In the news today: 64% of the Danes support joining the Euro, 29% are against...it will only be a ma
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