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Cadillac's Sourcing Suppliers For Flagship Sedan  
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

General Motors has come to its senses and FINALLY approved Cadillac's long-delayed full-sized RWD flagship sedan. (Please call it "Fleetwood", Cadillac!!). News leaked this week that parts suppliers are being contracted by GM for the Cadillac-exclusive "Omega" platform sedan. What news surfaced? So far, the flagship sedan has not been given an official name. It is expected to be launched in mid-2014 as a 2015 model. The good news is that the flagship is expected to resemble the Ciel and Sixteen Concepts and offer six (including a possible twin-turbo) and eight cylinder engines, with a possible hybrid drivetrain, and a newly designed 8-speed automatic transmission. In addition, the Omega platform is rumored to also support a new Cadillac full-sized SUV, basically the direct replacement for the aging truck-based Escalade.

The SRX is to remain the "small" Cadillac CUV while the new Escalade is to fill the "large" CUV market - similiar in size to the current Acadia, Traverse, and Enclave. The XTS sedan seems destined to remain in the Cadillac line-up as the "volume" large car, like the DeVille used to be. The new Omega-platform sedan replaces the defunct Seville (STS/SLS) as the top-rung in the Cadillac model range. The competition for the new flagship is the S-class, 7-series, Lexus LS, and Audi A8 - and the pricetag will match the competition. It will not be cheap. But Cadillac has found great success in its new ATS sedan, and has decided to move the ATS development and engineering team over to the flagship program intact. The ATS team is rumored to be the "smartest guys in the room" in terms of development and engineering, and Cadillac is keen to leverage this team for the Omega-platform program. This change in assignment also explains why the ATS coupe, wagon, and convertible models have been either cancelled (coupe/convertible) or delayed (wagon), since the assets of the ATS program have been redirected to the Omega program.

Cadillac Sixteen Sedan (2003 concept)


Cadillac Ciel concept (2011)


Source: http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f...uppliers-flagship-cadillac-110894/


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8847 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2191 times:

While I am happy that Cadillac is going for the high end luxury car market again, please, please PLEASE don't make it look so blingy. It should be more elegant, subtle and classy, and not scream "Look at me!"


Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

I wont believe any of this until I see it. I have a sad feeling that it will look more like the current CTS / STS but just 2 or 3 inches longer.
Would be great if they go with the 4-door convertible version.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8299 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2061 times:

The DTS (DeVille) has been out of production for a while, but GM hasn't delivered it's replacement. How long will Caddy be without a DTS/XTS model. It just does't make sense to leave that gap in their line-up.

So before being too concerned about a flash model I'm looking to what is going to be delivered this year. As far as the Fleetwood name goes, it should be the top of the line sedan that could be a solid limo as well as large family car.


User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3649 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2037 times:

This is great! This is the best car news, that I have read this year.          

User currently offlinewukka From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2015 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Would be great if they go with the 4-door convertible version.

That would be sweet, but working out the structural integrity of that thing would be a bear. Carbon-fiber-alumalloy-titanioxyhydroxide-celluine notwithstanding. Once you open a door, I don't see how you would ever close it with that many flex points, even with a unibody design. Sag-o-rama!

I'm diggin' the rear of that Ciel concept, though. It's both the ass end and the grille of my CTS in one direction.   If the backup lights were bright enough, I could drive all the way to work in reverse and nobody would be the wiser.



We can agree to disagree.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2014 times:

Quoting wukka (Reply 5):
That would be sweet, but working out the structural integrity of that thing would be a bear. Carbon-fiber-alumalloy-titanioxyhydroxide-celluine notwithstanding. Once you open a door, I don't see how you would ever close it with that many flex points, even with a unibody design. Sag-o-rama!

Lincoln had no problem doing that in the 1960s.
Hard to believe but these were uni-body too.


http://assets.hemmings.com/uimage/179061-900-675.jpg?rev=3
1961 Lincoln Continental convertible

Ideally I'd like to see the Ciel concept on a body-on-frame construction. It's much sturdier for a convertible, especially a 4-door convertible. The 2004 Lincoln Continental concept was also supposed to be on an all new body-on-frame platform.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15749 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2005 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 6):
Lincoln had no problem doing that in the 1960s.

Rules have changed a little bit since then. But I think there was a concept Chrysler 300C convertible and even a few aftermarket modifications, so it might be possible if Cadillac wants to badly enough.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7443 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2003 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
It will not be cheap. But Cadillac has found great success in its new ATS sedan, and has decided to move the ATS development and engineering team over to the flagship program intact.

How can they have found great success, it's not even on sale is it.

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
This change in assignment also explains why the ATS coupe, wagon, and convertible models have been either cancelled (coupe/convertible) or delayed (wagon), since the assets of the ATS program have been redirected to the Omega program.

This is a mistake, if they want this to be a success outside of North American they need the wagon, it's main competitors A4/A5, C Class & 3 series all come in 4 or 5 body styles.

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Would be great if they go with the 4-door convertible version.

Nice idea but who is going to buy it?

Quoting wukka (Reply 5):
Once you open a door, I don't see how you would ever close it with that many flex points, even with a unibody design. Sag-o-rama!

That's not going to be a problem.



User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8568 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1983 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 3):
The DTS (DeVille) has been out of production for a while, but GM hasn't delivered it's replacement. How long will Caddy be without a DTS/XTS model. It just does't make sense to leave that gap in their line-up.

So before being too concerned about a flash model I'm looking to what is going to be delivered this year. As far as the Fleetwood name goes, it should be the top of the line sedan that could be a solid limo as well as large family car.

GM is very slow in rolling out new cars.

But the XTS is just about to enter production (and dealer inventories) for the 2013 model year, so within 3 months or so:

(article published yesterday)
http://www.autoloandaily.com/2013-cadillac-xts-revealed-3098


User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1891 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 8):
How can they have found great success, it's not even on sale is it.

Great auto press reports, plus lots of advance orders from dealers - the ATS is generating a lot of pre-orders from buyers.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8847 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1872 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 2):
Would be great if they go with the 4-door convertible version.

That would definitely give them a unique selling point in the luxury market.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39898 posts, RR: 74
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1842 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
Rules have changed a little bit since then.

Rules?
You mean government regulations?



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePs76 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 1794 times:

Hi!

My Dad owns a 1999 Cadillac Seville built in the UK and I cannot begin to express how much we as a family love looking at and driving in it. To me their current models look bulky but their 1999 Seville was pure understated elegance with all the comforts inside, a powerful engine and very smooth ride:



I hope they return to something similar!

Many thanks,

Pierre


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8847 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 1786 times:

Quoting Ps76 (Reply 13):
1999 Cadillac Seville built in the UK

Ummm, All '99 Sevilles were built in Hamtramck, Michigan, including the left-drive ones.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinePs76 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 1784 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 14):
Ummm, All '99 Sevilles were built in Hamtramck, Michigan, including the left-drive ones.

Sorry that's my fault. I should have said built for the UK market but in the USA.

Many thanks,

Pierre


User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 1777 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 8):
This is a mistake, if they want this to be a success outside of North American they need the wagon, it's main competitors A4/A5, C Class & 3 series all come in 4 or 5 body styles.

While I agree, there are financial reasons GM/Cadillac have slowed introductions (or cut altogether) some models from the ATS line-up. Additional costs for engineering, tooling, and production of the low-volume ATS coupe and convertible models have slowed the ATS program (the ATS wagon is still to be produced, the question is when) - GM is still having financial problems (despite the US taxpayer bail-out) thanks to their Opel and Vauxhall divisions in Europe. No matter how nice some Opel models (like the Insignia) are, the Opel brand has a terrible image problem in Europe (as does Vauxhall in the UK) and is seen as an old persons car. Kind of like the image that Buick is trying to overcome in the USA, but without the Buick's appeal in the Chinese marketplace.

GM Europe is bleeding so much red ink that GM is again in relatively poor financial condition. GM North America is focused squarely on the launch of its next-generation full sized pick-up trucks in North America at the moment, and has spent a huge amount of money on completely retooling the Silverado/Sierra assembly plants in the USA and Mexico. The new pick-up trucks should be in dealerships next year.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7443 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 1754 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Reply 16):
as does Vauxhall in the UK

I disagree Vauxhall is the second largest brand in the UK market after Ford.


User currently offlineIH8BY From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1142 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 1741 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17):
I disagree Vauxhall is the second largest brand in the UK market after Ford.

You can pump up your sales with big fleet and daily rental deals, as well as hefty discounts to retail customers, but that won't improve your image. Even Vauxhall's website freely admits you can get a discount of many thousands on the (admittedly inflated) list prices, suggesting that they're not concerned in the slightest about any damage that this might do to their brand. So they'll sell a lot of cars now, making not a lot of money, but there's a danger of a downward spiral, which is a pity as their newer product (e.g. Astra, even Insignia) is really very good.

The problem with playing the discount/volume game these days is that there are now other manufacturers with equally competent products and a much lower cost base, such as Hyundai/Kia and Skoda. If GM choose to fight a discounting battle, they'll eventually lose, even if they take advantage of the new alliance with PSA.

I feel that concepts like the Ciel fit my image of Cadillac well - there's a difference between classic American luxury and classic European luxury and I think that this needs to be exploited. There's no point having a Cadillac that's 'almost as good as a 5-series' because that's all it'll ever be. It's either got to be better - or so different that people buy it just because it's a Cadillac.



Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7443 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 1718 times:

Quoting IH8BY (Reply 18):
You can pump up your sales with big fleet and daily rental deals, as well as hefty discounts to retail customers, but that won't improve your image.

That's the same with all the big players in the UK market.


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