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"One Million Moms" Anti-gay Agenda  
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3164 posts, RR: 9
Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 6501 times:

There's a group called One Million Moms (even though there are fewer than 50,000 signed up) that have a vitriol against anything that isn't "traditional." Their latest is about superheroes.

One Million Moms is up in arms about the "coming out" of an existing well known super hero. They believe that if there is to be a gay character, it should be someone that no one knows.

In other words, young children should not be exposed to the reality that people they know and trust are gay.

Ridiculous.


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
197 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5492 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6394 times:

Quoting zrs70 (Thread starter):
There's a group called One Million Moms (even though there are fewer than 50,000 signed up)

But the important thing to remember is that more that 100 million moms don't have an anti-gay agenda and will and do support their gay son's and daughter's. It is really a tiny percentage of small minded people that "come out" against same-sex relationships.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7867 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6391 times:

Which superhero? Is there an article to go along with this?

Quoting zrs70 (Thread starter):
There's a group called One Million Moms (even though there are fewer than 50,000 signed up)

I guess "Almost Fifty Thousand Moms" wasn't as catchy...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6384 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
Which superhero? Is there an article to go along with this?

Northstar, from X-Men. He's marrying a non-superhero.

Link



Flying refined.
User currently offlineATTart From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6272 times:

As this Pastor's opinion in Kansas is that " The Government Should Kill Gays".

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...ill-gays/politics/2012/05/31/40330



Remember: When someone talks behind your back, it only means you're two steps ahead of them!
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5492 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6212 times:

Well, it's obvious that 50KMoms just doesn't understand, does not want to understand, and is unwilling to recognize the fact that everyone deserves to be treated well and not devalued. Even gay children.
From the link WestJet747 provided in reply 5

Quote:
"Children desire to be just like superheroes. Children mimic superhero actions and even dress up in costumes to resemble these characters as much as possible. Can you imagine little boys saying, 'I want a boyfriend or husband like X-Men?'" says the organisation. "This is ridiculous! Why do adult gay men need comic superheroes as role models? They want to indoctrinate impressionable young minds by placing these gay characters on pedestals in a positive light. These companies are heavily influencing our youth by using children's superheroes to desensitise and brainwash them into thinking that a gay lifestyle choice is normal and desirable. As Christians, we know that homosexuality is a sin."

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3164 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6163 times:

I've always found it ironic that OMM has no problem that toy stores sell toy guns - but heaven forbid the toy store sell a comic book in which a man loves a man.


14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1830 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6109 times:

Meanwhile, in fantasyland: I decided to check out the website of this 'One Million Moms' organization, what I found is...interesting.

They claim that "God is using OneMillionMoms.com" to do his work (yep, not doctors or police officers or firemen, but this miscounted group of women). In that article they say that they were responsible for getting the show GCB taken off the air. Clearly they haven't heard of ratings...

They claim that the show 'The Playboy Club' was removed from the air because "OMM contacted sponsors". Again, they have no idea how the television business works.

You can find more of the so-called successes they claim responsibility for here. These women are delusional. They fail to realize that market responsiveness determines the continuation of marketing campaigns, not crazy women sending emails.

What I found most interesting though, is that this group is actually a "ministry" of a larger group called the American Family Association (AFA). Who is this AFA you might ask? Well they're the same AFA that has been listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a "hate group" (upgraded from being "a group who engages in hate speech"). Link

If you guys here a noise, don't worry, it's just the OMM's credibility flying out the window.

[Edited 2012-05-31 17:52:55 by srbmod]


Flying refined.
User currently offline2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8490 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 6077 times:

I am sure, no I guarantee that more than one of the 50+K members of the "One Million Moms" organization a subsidiary of the "American Family Association" is going find out one day in the future that one of her kids is gay even after the parents have tried to raise the the son as "macho manly" as possible or raise the daughter to be as "flowery feminine" as possible.

To you the moms in the organization, what are you going to do when you receive the revelation that one of your kids is gay? Are you going to love child as your faith that you use to judge others actually commands of you to do or are you going to ask yourself "Why didn't I raise my kid to be even more macho or feminine?" and blame society or blame JCP, Sears, The Gap, DC and Marvel Comics for the fact that your kid is gay. When that day happens who are you going to love first, your child or the ideology of your organization?

Of course the "One Million Moms" organization a subsidiary of the innocently named AFA will accuse their detractors of being "intolerant", "close minded", and being devoid of "traditional American" and "family values" but what are you teaching people, children that hatred of gays and things you don't agree with is a family value, that boycotting JCP because they use Ellen DeGeneres as a spokesperson is a Christian virtue as you see it and that a 4 year old boy singing in a church "ain't no homos gonna make it to Haven" is deserving as an applause by people who are likely to agree with you and of some who might be members?

The way I see it, the "One Million Moms" organization is not a collection of brave women who want to take a stand for a better more habitable society, the "One Million Moms" organization ran by the the AFA is an organization of hate driven cowards.



"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5492 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6033 times:

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 22):
I've always found it ironic that OMM has no problem that toy stores sell toy guns - but heaven forbid the toy store sell a comic book in which a man loves a man.

I would think the answer would be: Don't buy the comic book for your kid!  
Tugg

[Edited 2012-05-31 17:52:27 by srbmod]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5385 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6014 times:

IMO, the OMM are just another of those "concerned parent groups" that, instead of concentrating on trying to create a better world for their children, are more interested in judging what they find (im)moral and (im)modest. I'm sure that 50 years ago, their pet bugaboo would have been interracial dating/relationships (we have to make sure that society takes a stand for decency by ensuring that our precious children don't marry one of them) and rock music.

They've also called upon JCPenney to drop their use of (former JCPenney employee) Ellen DeGeneres as a spokeswoman. In an amazing show of bravado that I can only laud, JCPenney doubled down by placing a photo of a gay couple in their June catalog.





South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3164 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 6009 times:

We should take note that being of Christian/ Jewish faith does not mean that one is pro/anti gay. While many are opposed to gay issues because of faith, many are supportive because their religion commands them not to treat others like strangers.

The religious progressives are a loud and clear voice!

Rabbi ZRS



14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlinerlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1080 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5937 times:

I have not given any opinion on the subject. My only opinion is that people should be tolerant to other peoples opinions even when they do not agree with them.


I can drive faster than you
User currently offlinerlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1080 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5923 times:

The whole direction of this discussion was somebody agreeing with what the moms said. If people here do not like that then they could have pointed out and spoke against what that group stands for. Instead, the posters comment was deleted and people here are saying that that poster has no right to comment that he agrees with that group. That is what I am arguing against. If you do not like something you are free to argue against it. But it seems sensitive mob mentality took over and shut down somebodys opinion.


I can drive faster than you
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5908 times:

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 26):
The whole direction of this discussion was somebody agreeing with what the moms said. If people here do not like that then they could have pointed out and spoke against what that group stands for. Instead, the posters comment was deleted and people here are saying that that poster has no right to comment that he agrees with that group. That is what I am arguing against.

So would you advocate letting openly racist comments stand undeleted as well?

And if not, why not?

Your argument would apply to those just as well, with the same problems attached.


User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4974 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 5872 times:

Also the AFA is the group that Rick Perry catered to early in his campaign at the Astrodome party he threw. Non Christians not allowed, Thank goodness he is gone (Rick Perry that is).


Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19495 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5865 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 3):
Northstar, from X-Men.


And if he needs to be gay, that's just FINE with me!      
Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 10):
They've also called upon JCPenney to drop their use of (former JCPenney employee) Ellen DeGeneres as a spokeswoman. In an amazing show of bravado that I can only laud, JCPenney doubled down by placing a photo of a gay couple in their June catalog.

Yup. It appears that JCP management has decided to draw a line in the sand. There are obvious financial benefits to this decision. Gay men are more likely to have a college education and less likely to have families. That translates into more disposable income.

That said, they could have simply ignored OMM. Instead, openly printing this ad sends a very loud and clear message and I don't think that all of it can be explained away as "just good business." Someone at the top made a very definite statement about the company's morality. For that, I applaud them.

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 12):
I have not given any opinion on the subject. My only opinion is that people should be tolerant to other peoples opinions even when they do not agree with them.

I do not have to "tolerate" bigotry. I do not have to, and will not "tolerate" someone else's view that I am less than a full human being worthy of as much respect as anyone else simply because I exist. And let's not go through the charade of pretending that this is about "loving families" or "disagreeing with a lifestyle." Calling for people to lose their jobs on account of their sexuality falls under neither description.

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 8):
To you the moms in the organization, what are you going to do when you receive the revelation that one of your kids is gay?

I've dealt with enough homeless teenagers who were kicked out of their households by parents who "disagree with the gay lifestyle" and "love traditional American family values." I'll never forget the time I walked into a room just in time to catch a (very "Catholic") mother slapping her (6'2") 16yo son and calling him a "son of a b!tch." I commented that it was an interesting choice of insults for her to use on her own son. Then I called the cops.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 7):
Well they're the same AFA that has been listed by the Southern Poverty Law Center as a "hate group" (upgraded from being "a group who engages in hate speech").

The SPLC is an anti-American, left-wing front group. Didn't you get the memo?  


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6603 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5845 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
That said, they could have simply ignored OMM. Instead, openly printing this ad sends a very loud and clear message and I don't think that all of it can be explained away as "just good business." Someone at the top made a very definite statement about the company's morality. For that, I applaud them.

While I give JCP credit, I don't think it will help their business much as their business is totally falling apart.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 54
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5838 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
I do not have to "tolerate" bigotry. I do not have to, and will not "tolerate" someone else's view that I am less than a full human being worthy of as much respect as anyone else simply because I exist. And let's not go through the charade of pretending that this is about "loving families" or "disagreeing with a lifestyle." Calling for people to lose their jobs on account of their sexuality falls under neither description.

  

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
I'll never forget the time I walked into a room just in time to catch a (very "Catholic") mother slapping her (6'2") 16yo son and calling him a "son of a b!tch." I commented that it was an interesting choice of insults for her to use on her own son.

Sounds as if she got it just right, incidentally…!   

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Then I called the cops.

Sad, if probably necessary.


User currently offlinen229nw From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 1943 posts, RR: 32
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5821 times:

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 10):
They've also called upon JCPenney to drop their use of (former JCPenney employee) Ellen DeGeneres as a spokeswoman. In an amazing show of bravado that I can only laud, JCPenney doubled down by placing a photo of a gay couple in their June catalog.

Alright JC Penney! I'm not gay but I'll try to give them some business for standing up for what's right.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 14):
So would you advocate letting openly racist comments stand undeleted as well?

And if not, why not?

Your argument would apply to those just as well, with the same problems attached.

Personally, I think that openly racist comments SHOULD stand undeleted on A.net as well. I have always hated the suggest deletion button because I think that rather than having their comments deleted, misguided or downright nasty posters should be allowed to show their true colors, however ugly, and have people blow their arguments out of the water. As it stands, half of offensive comments on A.net are deleted, and the other half are allowed to stand, and it is pretty arbitrary--partly based on who is being insulted, and partly based on luck.

There is one poster whose homophobic rants are deleted about half the time, but the other half of the time is more fun, because he just embarrasses himself publicly, for example.



It's people like you what cause unrest!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21442 posts, RR: 54
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5810 times:

Quoting n229nw (Reply 19):
Personally, I think that openly racist comments SHOULD stand undeleted on A.net as well. I have always hated the suggest deletion button because I think that rather than having their comments deleted, misguided or downright nasty posters should be allowed to show their true colors, however ugly, and have people blow their arguments out of the water. As it stands, half of offensive comments on A.net are deleted, and the other half are allowed to stand, and it is pretty arbitrary--partly based on who is being insulted, and partly based on luck.

I don't disagree with your point; On the other hand, flame wars in forums can get out of hand, so moderation does have a role to play.

Either way, my point was that most people agree that racism is extremely toxic, despicable and disruptive to a civilized debate, but some people at the same time insist the same toxic mindset versus homosexuality to be "harmless" or "just a valid opinion". For me that disconnect is at the heart of the matter.


User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11572 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5691 times:

Doc:

I guess my invite to help set the gay agenda got lost in the mail. Again!! And l live only 50 short miles north of San Francisco; gay hub of the world!! Why was I not informed there was another "set the gay agenda" meeting? I changed my address! Please forward all future "set the gay agenda" invites to my partner of 5 1/2 years and I to our current address. I would hate to miss out on setting the gay agenda. Again. For the umpteeth time in a row...

/sarcasm



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19495 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5652 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 18):
Sad, if probably necessary.

Absolutely necessary. I am legally mandated as a pediatrician to report all suspected child abuse within 24 hours. If I suspect that the child is in immediate danger, I am mandated to report immediately and involve law enforcement. I could lose my license and even go to jail for failure to do so.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
Either way, my point was that most people agree that racism is extremely toxic, despicable and disruptive to a civilized debate,

It is also illogical and indefensible to argue that someone is inferior to others just by virtue of his or her very existence.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6590 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 5618 times:

Why does it seem than when someone in the US says he's Christian, almost anything can fly ? Sure, not the killing of gays, but it goes that far for a reason. The same people defending "Christians" will say Islam is a dangerous religion, every Muslim wants sharia everywhere, etc.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19495 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5601 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 23):
Why does it seem than when someone in the US says he's Christian, almost anything can fly ? Sure, not the killing of gays, but it goes that far for a reason.

Oh even that! Two different "Christian" pastors have called for a Holocaust of all gays. Both have been vigorously defended by their congregations. In France or Germany, they would been in jail.


25 Post contains links ATTart : I thought I would share this video of Zach Wahls speaks of being raised by two Women!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLZO-sObzQ
26 Post contains links garnetpalmetto : Oh boy. Expect OMM to have an angry at both Marvel AND DC now...apparently "The Green Lantern" will be relaunched as being openly gay - http://www.new
27 Post contains images ATTart : Well, Green Lantern is hot!!
28 bjorn14 : But yet the JCP ad portrays what seems to be two gay dads with their son, can't have a whole lot of disposible income with kids. So which is it? You'
29 falstaff : I never heard of this... They probably don't like drinking either. A lot of groups that use the "million: name don't even have close to a million. Re
30 Post contains images tugger : Ummmm.....did you read his post? And I guess I am meaning "read with comprehension" which is different from just "read". Because he said "less likely
31 Post contains images WestJet747 : So the group that fights hate groups in America hates America themselves? Seems rational. Disagreeing with the views of a group it doesn't necessaril
32 Post contains images garnetpalmetto : Probably. And, of course, the only textbook they'll ever need is The Bible! Exactly. About the only people who consider the SPLC as "anti-American" a
33 seb146 : I wonder what would happen if all the gays in this country were rounded up, forced into, say, Idaho and walled off. What happend when children being
34 garnetpalmetto : Maybe, hopefully, please change the color of Boise State's football field and uniforms? They're an eyesore.
35 seb146 : Their football field is blue so their cheerleaders will not graze at halftime....
36 mainMAN : The more I think about it, the more attractive a proposition this sounds. Is Idaho warm? If not, could you please consider Arizona or the San Diego a
37 falstaff : Who are these people? I wonder how big their congregation really are? That nut from Kansas has a congregation that is mostly members of his family .
38 Post contains images tugger : That is the part I don't get. Why more Christian's and church's that follow Jesus don't do more preaching of the word of Christ versus "the bible". I
39 garnetpalmetto : Probably because for many it's not actually about their faith but finding some socially acceptable way to attempt to justify their bigotry.
40 mainMAN : Well that's good, it almost sounds like the UK where sexuality stopped being on anybody's agenda many years ago - with better weather! When can we mo
41 falstaff : I could do without the old testament because it would make being a Christian a lot easier, I wouldn't have to put up with so many annoying atheists w
42 DocLightning : I draw the line where Germany does. When it comes to denying human dignity, I draw the line. No, the SPLC is a civil rights group. Those, like you, w
43 DocLightning : I disagree. Were that the case, they'd keep kosher. They don't. They'd make their wives sleep in a separate bed when she's on her period. They don't.
44 seb146 : HA!! In the summer, it is nice. Winters are brutal! Especially along the Montana border. The Rockies are there, so mountains, snow, bears (the animal
45 Klaus : You mean, such as Jesus taught and lived with his commune of followers who shared everything and put helping every fellow human being regardless of a
46 Post contains images DocLightning : Now what needs to happen is that you need to get those loudmouthed preacher types who are good at getting people angry and get them on your bandwagon
47 windy95 : The Green Lantern? I always thought it would be Batman.
48 zrs70 : Well, As of this morning, their Facebook page is down. Reports say it is temporary as they do damage control on all the backlash they have been gettin
49 AeroWesty : The odd thing about this is that the Declaration of Independence refers to the "Creator", and appeals to the "Supreme Judge" during the course of ind
50 seb146 : He did, according to Roman records. Funny thing, also. For some reason, we celebrate His birthday in December. It says that sheaphers were tending th
51 AeroWesty : It doesn't, and don't believe it ever will. My point was, did the Founding Fathers recognize a 'will of god', so to speak, when drafting the document
52 Post contains links and images solnabo : This is so gay n good, I love her voice, Spain ESC this year. Would US show this clip on the tele? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiG57mDf30A&feat
53 Post contains images Klaus : Really? I'm only aware of official records from later times where the existence of the jewish sect is acknowledged which called itself "Christians".
54 SmittyOne : When you peel back the onion you find that most of the values that people call "Judeo-Christian" are simply basic human values that many societies ha
55 Post contains links mariner : I don't know of any Roman records of the existence of Jesus which are contemporary with his supposed life. There are later Roman records which talk a
56 SmittyOne : One more thing about the "Judeo-Christian Nation" myth... It occurs to me that the US was founded on the sanctity of individual liberties and property
57 flipdewaf : Thats all well and good but back then people thought he existed but now we know better so we should move on from this. Fred
58 SmittyOne : They very well may have, but the documents that they created clearly contradict the parochial Judeo-Christian worldview. Nothing in the J/C holy book
59 seb146 : No, it doesn't. Now, if we could just convince the extremist right wingers who are in control of the Republican party of that fact.... There are docu
60 Klaus : Retroactively all kinds of connections have been made (and often fabricated on very speculative grounds), but I'm not aware of any contemporary docum
61 DocLightning : Soon after the Constitution was ratified, Congress UNANIMOUSLY ratified a treaty with Tripoli that said: "As the Government of the United States of A
62 AeroWesty : Oi! Folks! Let's keep things in context. My use of "Judeo-Christian" is shorthand of a sort, because people know what it is. It wasn't an attempt to c
63 type-rated : One Million Moms is a group that specializes in female hysteria. Nothing more, nothing less. They love to feed off of the energy of this kind of thing
64 DocLightning : No, it is actually important. It's important to know that the founders of the United States very clearly wanted religion out of government. There wer
65 AeroWesty : Which is why we have the Bill of Rights. That isn't news. The difference being that the FFs enshrined into the original documents their faith in a Su
66 Post contains images mt99 : Gay Agenda? Here it is:
67 SmittyOne : LOL made me think of this quote from "Friends": Joey Tribbiani: If homo sapiens were in fact HOMO sapiens - is that why they're exctinct? Dr. Ross Ge
68 DocLightning : Remember that the Declaration of Independence did not establish the United States. The Constitution did that. The DoI is not an official U.S. documen
69 Post contains links AeroWesty : True, but the DoI states in eloquent form the reasons for why independence should be sought, in language so clear it cannot be misunderstood. The fai
70 SmittyOne : IMO a much larger part was their lack of enthusiasm for paying taxes to the crown. LOL nothing changes.
71 DocLightning : Except they weren't all Christian. So that's a fail. What you are doing is called "revisionist" history. "Revisionist" is another word for "lying." O
72 seb146 : Probably the same place I put the minutes from the last gay agenda meeting.... One documentary said there were many men who, at the time, could perfo
73 Post contains images AeroWesty : Want to dispute it? Give us your list. Shouldn't be that hard, just copy/paste from one of the several 'Religious affiliation of the Founding Fathers
74 Post contains links DocLightning : Thomas Paine was a deist. Jefferson and Franklin were "anti-clerical" Christians, which is basically a Christian in name only. There were three Roman
75 Post contains images AeroWesty : Uh oh, 'fail'. Paine was never a signatory to any founding legislation, nor served in any branch of the revolutionary military, nor served in any ele
76 Klaus : Just looking at the evidence, I think it's likely that he existed in some way, but there are many indications that the stories about him have been al
77 SmittyOne : As long as they keep Santa Claus in Christmas I can live with this.
78 DocLightning : You know, there is no solid evidence that Hippocrates existed, either. It's entirely possible that he was actually an accumulation of several men (an
79 Post contains images HOONS90 : The original One Million Moms Facebook page has been replaced by a pro-gay group of the same name. https://www.facebook.com/1millionmoms Smart!
80 DocLightning : Oooh! Oooh! Do you think there will be a lawsuit? (MODS!!! We need an "eating popcorn" smiley!)
81 Post contains images Klaus : I don't know that much about Hippocrates, but the main difference seems to be that hardly anyone insists on having absolute knowlede about him (her?
82 Post contains links AeroWesty : Looks like it was a self-delete (didn't know that was possible), before the group went on a "vacation bible school" retreat for the week. As usual, f
83 Post contains images Klaus : Looks more like an epic fail, followed by a humiliating retreat.
84 DocLightning : Oh, there's drama. The online community made it very clear that homophobia is not welcome.
85 AeroWesty : The drama I was referring to was the 'lawsuit' comment. I never did see the group's original FB page, but the 'new' one is '1millionmoms' vs. 'onemil
86 DocLightning : Oh, I don't think they'd actually sue. They'd get their butts handed to them in court. Besides, with the negative PR they've generated so far, they s
87 AeroWesty : Personally, I don't believe the Moms really care how they're viewed by society in general. Even Bill O'Reilly accused them of McCarthy-esq witch hunt
88 DocLightning : I would have agreed back then. But now that I see what is happening, with state after state legalizing, DOMA about to fall, DADT gone, etc., I realiz
89 AeroWesty : I still think it's about 5 years too early in the process, and believe history and current events will back me up in that regard. Look back to WW2 as
90 DeltaMD90 : As someone who is young (22) and in the military, I have definitely seen a huge change... it's like day and night. This is purely anecdotal, but befo
91 AeroWesty : Excellent! I hope it continues and those enlightened attitudes are taken home with them.
92 seb146 : Too bad we don't have any right-wing politicians who believe this... It was getting pretty close there for a few years after 9/11
93 Post contains links AeroWesty : I've been delving a bit into this issue, and come across some interesting analysis for the language in Article XI in the treaty signed at Tripoli. Th
94 DocLightning : You can analyze all you want, but it is explicitly stated. "The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religi
95 AeroWesty : When I look at a person's argument, especially when they accuse me of being a liar (LOL), I do my research with two things in mind: Historical accura
96 DeltaMD90 : I don't know why we are talking about the Founding Fathers... sure they were great people, but I could care less what they "intended." We live in the
97 garnetpalmetto : I think for some it is.
98 AeroWesty : That's a good question. If you look at the agenda of groups like the One Million Moms, they'll state explicitly, "We want our children to have the be
99 DocLightning : No it isn't. When people use "Separation of Church and State" it is rapidly pointed out that it appears nowhere in any official document. And that is
100 AeroWesty : But don't you see, Doc, you're interpreting it yourself, by not taking context into account? That treaty wasn't a founding document, nor a law on whi
101 DocLightning : No I don't. I also see that you seem to be absolutely bent on reading something that isn't there, so I'm going to stop taking this discussion off-top
102 AeroWesty : I'm happy you pointed this out, actually. It makes it easier to remind everyone then, that official government documents, to use your argument, when
103 Post contains links tugger : Actually it doesn't say that anywhere on it: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fe/TreatyofTripoli.gif Tugg
104 Post contains links and images AeroWesty : Well of course, in the context for its purpose that makes perfect sense. However, the Treaty of Paris sure is signed that way, which is considered a
105 Post contains links bjorn14 : I'd like you to show me where it says that exact phrase in the Constitution. Because it doesn't. http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html It was
106 DeltaMD90 : 1st Amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedo
107 Post contains links and images tugger : Yeah.... that one certainly doesn't count as it was created with and negotiated by countries that were Christian (they had Kings for goodness sake an
108 jpetekyxmd80 : I could sling back and forth with quotations in a giant pissing match of if the founders wanted a clear separation of church and state. But that's alm
109 Post contains images AeroWesty : Treaties, by definition, are with other countries or governmental bodies who hold negotiating powers. All treaties will have some other outside influ
110 bjorn14 : I'm still looking for the 'seperation of church and state' quote in the Constitution. I'm quite tired of people saying these exact words are in the C
111 mt99 : Are you suggesting that sinners in general cannot get married?
112 AeroWesty : I'm not sure what you're going for here, either to simply make the point that that exact phrase doesn't exist, or that the principle behind it doesn'
113 DeltaMD90 : ok... again it says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the
114 seb146 : I just wonder what some of these moms are going to do when they find out their own children are gay. What the First Amendment says is that there will
115 Post contains images AeroWesty : Hopefully not kick them down the stairs and out of the house (as a friend of mine literally was, circa 1980), and told to go live with his father if
116 flipdewaf : but why should people follow a made up book over a real set of rules that is the constitution? I'm sure there are books out there about running throu
117 mariner : I donlt care if America is "a Chisitian nation" or not - if the law is Bible based, the Bible considers adultery a sin, there is a Commandment agains
118 Mir : Make their lives miserable. Perhaps even disown them. Religion can make people do some really ridiculous, horrible and destructive things. -Mir
119 seb146 : I think the right-wing zealots of the 21st century want to believe we are in a Christian theocracy. I, however, believe the founding fathers based th
120 Aesma : AeroWesty : you say that the repealing of DADT will help the gay community so no need to push for things. But don't you think it's a strong push from
121 windy95 : That is not what it says A serious reality check. This whole subject is very tiring for me personally. Gay, straight, black, white or brown we are al
122 SmittyOne : Amen Brother! What makes me laugh is that your Christian-American theocrats (if the shoe fits, wear it) would not be nearly as enthusiastic about the
123 AeroWesty : No where, of course. Laws regarding sodomy, etc. were left to the states, as were many other laws, so I'm not sure why you'd look to the Constitution
124 AeroWesty : Just for clarification, homosexuality isn't a "lifestyle choice."
125 seb146 : The far right-wing who keeps screaming and carrying on that this is a Christian nation just need to shut up, then! States that do have sodomy laws ra
126 Post contains images AeroWesty : No, they don't. I don't have to agree with them, and I don't, but no one can outlaw their right to think how they want to think, nor advocate for wha
127 windy95 : I understand and that was not my intent.. I am not a great writer and sometimes have a hard time putting out some point's. Bingo. If that person ask'
128 seb146 : So, where does it say this is a Christian nation? Yes, they do. They can crow all they want about themselves being Christian. I don't have a problem
129 MaverickM11 : I know a woman who did just that because she's "Christian", and then her son died--of course after the fact she wanted the world to believe her croco
130 AeroWesty : I never said these groups have a right to "legislate". I said they could think or advocate for whatever they want. It's a free country. Just like you
131 Mir : They can think what they want. They can advocate for what they want too, so long as they don't advocate for legislation. Trying to legally impose the
132 DocLightning : You know what? I draw the line at mass murder and mass internment. No, I won't defend your right to say that.
133 seb146 : Exactly. Problem is: only the right-wing zealots seem to feel they are the only ones who have this right and anyone else can take a long walk off a s
134 Post contains links DocLightning : http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/arc.../2012/03/19/the-rev-jeremiad-white http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast....om/2012/03/christianism-watch.html Th
135 AeroWesty : Where would you draw the line, though? For instance, I believe that pro-lifers may have their say. At the same time, I believe that politics in this
136 DocLightning : No it isn't. Those pastors who advocated taking all gays and locking them in internment camps and/or executing them all are not charged with anything
137 AeroWesty : My understanding is that it's unconstitutional to enact laws prohibiting hate speech. But if one were to encourage imminent harm/acts of violence, th
138 seb146 : They have every right to say what they are saying. What I have a problem with is they believe they own the title of patriot and they alone can decide
139 Post contains links DocLightning : In order for the speech to be illegal, you need to state a specific victim or victims and a method. Simply saying: "All gays should be rounded up in
140 Mir : If you're advocating to legally restrict an activity that involves only the participants and does not infringe on anyone else's rights or safety, I'm
141 AeroWesty : Do you feel less patriotic because of it? Perhaps you should define who "they" are a bit better, and give some examples where these folks have annoin
142 Post contains links AeroWesty : Oh jeez, what a dottering nutjob. If he's gone so far off the deep end that he doesn't realize that homosexuals are born from heterosexual mating, an
143 BrouAviation : Calling the book,. and as such my belief a fairy tale hurts me just as much as it hurts someone when he is told his sexual orientation isn't human, o
144 DocLightning : I don't. I am not a sinner. I have done things of which I am not proud. I have hurt people, made mistakes, etc. But I have devoted my life to the adv
145 Post contains images BrouAviation : You will have to . I think you are, just like I am one myself and the Bible says we all are, but that is an entirely different discussion. Well, ther
146 OzGlobal : I used to think they were just "poorly misguided", but then I observed them from 2000 - 2012 and the evolutoin of their behaviour : lies, treason, ha
147 SmittyOne : For my part, even though I don't share your beliefs...I "bother about" it because people use the 'sin' rationale as the sole basis for proposing law/
148 Quokkas : Strangely enough, the writings were not recorded by the direct participants in the events described and most were written a few years later. If every
149 Revelation : What happened to "judge not, lest thee be judged"? Seems to me you are presuming to have absolute clarity on God's will and are willing to act in jud
150 DocLightning : No I will not. Gay marriage will be legalized. Those who preach that it is a sin will be marginalized. That is how things are going to be. I know for
151 Aesma : Maybe that should change ? People move more than ever, it's stupid to have 50 different kind of marriages in the same country !
152 BrouAviation : How is that relevant? It is so easy to bring in this often (and now too) misused quote, but it adds nothing. For me, to live according to what God as
153 SmittyOne : BrouAviation, even though it doesn't mean much - welcome to my Respected Users list...there is much to be said for being able to 'agree to disagree'.
154 Revelation : Because you are extending your judgement to others. What you wrote was: which I suspect is an unfortunate wording. Later you wrote that we have to ac
155 NAV20 : Fantastic thread, congratulations to all contributors. For my part, I still dimly recall a time, in my teens, when I found myself slightly 'attracted'
156 seb146 : I feel bullied and threatened. FOX "News", AM Talk radio Again: FOX "News", AM Talk radio No. Heterosexual couples do. But, they can. Hetersexual cou
157 NAV20 : Simple matter of biology, seb146. By definition, homosexual couples cannot produce ANY sort of children. They can only adopt other people's children
158 Maverick623 : No it hasn't. It used to be a simple property-like transaction. It still is in many areas of the world. So? Sterile couples cannot produce kids thems
159 Post contains images NAV20 : You COULD well be right about a few places, even now, Maverick623. But do you really think that it's some sort of 'good thing' ?
160 Post contains links and images ATTart : Yes, they can!! Here is just one of many examples. Zach Wahls Speaks About Family. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLZO-sObzQ Side note: I failed, I
161 BrouAviation : It is indeed. My apologies for any misunderstanding. What I indeed meant is not that anyone has to accept it as Gods will, but it has to be accepted
162 SmittyOne : Does not compute. For this to be true, you'd have to assume one or both of these things to also be true: 1) That a large percentage of people current
163 SmittyOne : You missed his point. Heterosexual couples raise kids, some of which are gay. And when you dig into it you discover that it had nothing to do with th
164 Maverick623 : No, I am right. It's been well documented. Well, it's the truth. It's better than the baloney you've made up to exclude gay people from normal life.
165 Post contains links mariner : I'd like to see those records. To my knowledge, the first reference to a trial of a Jesus happens in the Testamentum Flavianum, by Jospehus Flavius (
166 DocLightning : If that's the case, then how did my heterosexual parents bring me up gay? No, I was this way from my earliest memories. Hold on. Somehow, straight pe
167 seb146 : Like, in the 1950s when there was Uncle Bob and his "very special friend" Sam? THANK YOU!!! To those of you who still believe being gay is a "choice"
168 WestJet747 : I listen to Fox News on Sirius quite frequently, and I have to admit they are sometimes guilty of this. 1. My cousin cannot have children due to havi
169 seb146 : Homo men can produce hetero children. Back in the day, they would simply lay back, close their eyes, and think of Mother England, as the saying goes.
170 Mir : No. Marriage has been used for a whole lot of things. Money, power, getting yourself into a more successful family, serving the husband. Children hav
171 mariner : If you want an ordered world, then you probably should support marriage equality - because the alternative is subversive, free-ranging homos, like me
172 Revelation : Interesting point of view. Personally, I think a lot of this defense of "traditional" marriage is a false front. 50% of marriages these days end up i
173 mariner : In England, there were two legal prohibitions on homosexual activity. The first was the anti-sodomy law of 1533, but "sodomy" didn't just mean male b
174 Revelation : Since you seem to have a grasp of the history of these things, I'll ask: In recent times, priests have been discovered to be diddling each other (and
175 SmittyOne : I don't have the answer to your question but I'm going to float the hypothesis here that the effects of celibacy vows on men haven't changed much in
176 Maverick623 : Celibacy vows have little to do with molesting children.
177 DocLightning : It is no different than the White Power groups who claim "We don't hate Black people, we just love the White Race!"
178 Post contains links mariner : There isn't much in recorded history about it - or much that I could cite as fact instead of rumor - but rumor says it's been going on for centuries.
179 SmittyOne : I was talking about the 'diddling' of each other and/or nuns. Agree that I have no real basis to imply that correlation = causality in the case of ch
180 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : What does this have to do with OMMs and gay marriage? Somehow pedophilia found its way into a gay thread again
181 seb146 : Will giving rights to a small sector of society take away rights from anyone else? Did giving Blacks the right to vote and sit in the front of the bus
182 Post contains images SmittyOne : Sorry - nothing implied by that at all! We got OT on a religious tangent, so you could say that "pedophilia found its way into a religion thread agai
183 BrouAviation : Depends on how you look at it. For me, it is not a question wether or not the children will be heterosexual or not when raised by homosexuals. That i
184 Revelation : Yes, and even that wasn't my intent, my OT intent was in the history of homosexuality in the priesthood. Mia culpa, and my apologies as well..
185 garnetpalmetto : You realize that your ideological counterparts in the US would have also used this as a rationale as to why interracial marriage should be banned - n
186 BrouAviation : I don't like to be called an ideological counterpart of people who advocate this sort of nonsense, and furthermore it is a distracting argument which
187 DeltaMD90 : I think a big reason why many don't want gays/lesbians raising children is because the children are very much less likely to be homophobic too, or may
188 Post contains links WestJet747 : You're twisting the intent of those studies. They show that children from a stable "two-parent" home are better off than those raised in a single-par
189 Post contains links NAV20 : Not 'new' at all, in my experience. Many years ago I was at a Catholic boarding-school, and was 'leant on' by one of the priests. To his credit, when
190 seb146 : So, no child ever in the history of the world has ever been happy being raised by one woman or one man or two men or two women? Right. Sure. Just lik
191 Mir : Let's see that science and investigation, then. Because, like WestJet747, I'm suspicious that you may be confusing studies showing that two-parent ho
192 BrouAviation : For crying out loud, what a ridiculous reaction. I did not say that. Not agreeing is one thing, not being able to react in a normal and balanced way
193 Mir : An individual is not a family. That one's fairly simple. Still waiting for some evidence that a homosexual family can't raise a child as effectively
194 Post contains links WestJet747 : The one thing you correctly point out is that the great thing about having two parents is that they each bring different positive qualities to the ta
195 garnetpalmetto : You may not like it, but that's who you're falling in line with especially given that many of the same people who are advocating against same-sex mar
196 Post contains links mariner : There's are a coupe of articles out today - the first pointing out same sex marriages already exist - everywhere - except in the eyes of the law, comm
197 Post contains images Maverick623 : No it doesn't. It says two-parent. So any argument you don't like is distracting. Got it. When that opinion advocates the denial of happiness to peop
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