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DREAM, By Presidential Fiat  
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5358 posts, RR: 14
Posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4672 times:

President Obama, today announced that his administration would no longer deport illegal immigrants, under the age of 30, if they came to the United States before they were 16. These illegals should have relatively clean records and have graduated a US high school (I thought it was college, but the article says high school) or served in the US military. Basically, the DREAM Act (lite) by presidential fiat and not by congressional action.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/r...-illegal-immigrants-133800284.html

So, once again, this president, for political expediency and to garner political favor is bypassing Congress and choosing which laws to enforce and which laws not to enforce.

Personally, I think he went early on this...he should have waited until September. Maybe he's desperate.

Oh, by the way...may I quote The President on this very subject?

"With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that’s just not the case, because there are laws on the books that Congress has passed -- and I know that everybody here at Bell is studying hard so you know that we’ve got three branches of government. Congress passes the law. The executive branch’s job is to enforce and implement those laws. And then the judiciary has to interpret the laws.

There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system that for me to simply through executive order ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as President."

yup, that's our man.

I know a bunch will jump into advocating for or against the DREAM Act, as enacted(?) by The President, but, I'm more concerned about how he's talking out both sides of his ass, and clearly playing to the Hispanic electorate and bypassing Congress.

Obama sycophants: defend!


When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
212 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6573 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4672 times:
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Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
Obama sycophants: defend!

I'm not going to. The man wants to get elected. He is a politician, this is the kind of stuff that they do.

The GOP throws gays and minorities under the bus to garner votes, Its he same concept really...

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
Personally, I think he went early on this...he should have waited until September.

Yes.. he should have waited to get Bin Laden until Sept as well.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
Maybe he's desperate.

Maybe he finally started doing what he promised in his first election. - you know the promised that got him elected in the first place.

[Edited 2012-06-15 12:39:50]


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5358 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4666 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 1):
Maybe he finally started doing what he promised in his first election. - you know the promised that got him elected in the first place.

You mean he promised to bypass Congress in 2008?

Quoting mt99 (Reply 1):
Yes.. he should have waited to get Bin Laden until Sept as well.

I'm sure the thought crossed Axelrod's mind.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2713 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4658 times:

Yes he has made himself King. Why do we even need Congress or the Constitution anymore?

His behind the scenes polling must be bad to be tossing all of this out this early.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6573 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4654 times:
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Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2):
You mean he promised to bypass Congress in 2008?

He promised to make it happen - and this is a way to do it.

Same thing with DOMA, same thing with DADT.

His positions in all of these things were known in 2008 - he got elected with promises to address them.

So, why the shock?

Quoting windy95 (Reply 3):
Yes he has made himself King. Why do we even need Congress or the Constitution anymore?

And what he has done unconstitutional? (serious question)

[Edited 2012-06-15 12:47:52]


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39703 posts, RR: 75
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4641 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
President Obama, today announced that his administration would no longer deport illegal immigrants, under the age of 30,

I would only agree if they were females that were very attractive. Otherwise, kick 'em out!  
Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
Personally, I think he went early on this...he should have waited until September. Maybe he's desperate.

Well of course. Have you seen the recent jobs numbers and recent spike in NEW unemployment claims?
Not to mention, more & more states are sliding in to the Romney side. Obama has appeared to be losing Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, tied in Michigan and losing Wisconsin - a state that Michael Dukakis won.
Even more damaging, a new poll shows Obama losing 20% of the African-American vote to Romney. The highest percentage of any Republican since Eisenhower in the African-American voting block.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...nc/2012/06/14/gJQARPvRcV_blog.html

Obama is desperate and I doubt his latest stunt to connect with the working class by cozying up to Anna Wintour and Sarah Jessica Parker is paying off.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinevinniewinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4615 times:

If Congress wasn't as dysfunctional, if members of Congress weren't so fake and driven by party politics, racism and short term thinking, maybe this reform would have passed a long time ago !

I don't agree on how this is being done, but I agree on the principals of the reform!

And sometimes one needs to be bold for the greater good. Obama has just done that...


User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5358 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4610 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 4):
His positions in all of these things were known in 2008 - he got elected with promises to address them.
Quoting mt99 (Reply 4):
And what he has done unconstitutional? (serious question)



So, it's OK to bypass Congress? Congress failed to pass the DREAM Act, that does not mean the President gets to do what he wants.

To, once again, quote The President:

"Congress passes the law. The executive branch’s job is to enforce and implement those laws. And then the judiciary has to interpret the laws." and "...laws on the books by Congress...through executive order ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as President."

Congress did not pass the very provisions that President Obama has ordered DHS to implement. That really does look unconstitutional to me.

Why have a Congress if The President can do what he wants? Any president?



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6573 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4602 times:
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Quoting vinniewinnie (Reply 6):
And sometimes one needs to be bold for the greater good. Obama has just done that...

And that my point - he got elected based on bold acts - which, for whatever reason, he was incapable of doing. Now he is making good on what he promised - and for the record:

1- Political Stunt:Check
2- Wants to get in with Hispanics: Check
3- Timing is suspect: Check:

We all knew that this is what he wanted in 2008. If people wouldn't have wanted it then - he wouldn't have been elected.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5421 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4597 times:

Quoting vinniewinnie (Reply 6):
If Congress wasn't as dysfunctional, if members of Congress weren't so fake and driven by party politics, racism and short term thinking, maybe this reform would have passed a long time ago !

I don't agree on how this is being done, but I agree on the principals of the reform!

I'll go along with this somewhat. The politics of compromise are none existent in Congress nowadays so they have become their own enemy.

On the DREAM Act I will say that I don't agree with giving those here illegally any sort of easier path to citizenship than those that are here legally (or waiting to come here legally). With that said however, I can understand the plight of those that grew up here through no choice of their own and are American in almost every way (many pledge allegiance to the flag daily). So if I were going to write something for this group I essentially would make that if they want the citizenship then those that brought them here illegally (i.e. their parents) could no longer remain in the country and could not be sponsored to return. Yes it would likely be a very difficult decision to make by these children but as I said I do not think it should be easy, and also if the parents came here so their kids could have a better life, well they still get that.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5358 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4591 times:

Quoting vinniewinnie (Reply 6):
I don't agree on how this is being done, but I agree on the principals of the reform!

And sometimes one needs to be bold for the greater good. Obama has just done that...

Really? So if a President decided something was for the greater good, he could do it, without Congressional action?

Please take a moment and read The US Constitution, paying attention to Article 1, Section 7.

What about a governor, when dealing with a state legislature?

Should we just 'elect' kings?



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39703 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4581 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
Please take a moment and read The US Constitution, paying attention to Article 1, Section 7.

Funny how he was touted as being a 'Constitutional scholar'.   
No one said he was good at it.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinePSA53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3053 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4583 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 3):
Yes he has made himself King

Sounds like it.And he's using the Tax payers credit cards which he is maxing out.Buy now,pay later.Here's why.

Why is Obama dumping 800,000 now illegal new job seekers on a other already stressed job market?Business laying off or downsizing.Workers are trying to hang on to what they have or little of.Now they have to face this. What?After the election unemployment goes to 12% or does he care?Sounds like credit card usage to me.

30 years or younger.Does that mean cheaper on prime jobs.Oh-Oh.layoffs for over thirty.

American jobs first? WTF! Impeach the POTUS.

The "Dream" but "nightmare act" to legal citizens tax payers is now paying for state education here in California to illegals.Another slap in the face to legals who have to face rising tuition costs.

The President's job is to protect American interests first. Not foreigners!

The democrats new motto's to me seem to be "Unethical is Ethical" and "Illegal is Legal."

Oh,yes.About the Latino meetings next week in which Obama is so concerned about,if I we're a candidate for POTUS,I would refuse saying the POTUS does not approve or promote any illegal activity and come under such requests.

[Edited 2012-06-15 13:36:51]


Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4475 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4573 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
would no longer deport illegal immigrants

it's a 2 year deferral.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
So, once again, this president, for political expediency and to garner political favor is bypassing Congress and choosing which laws to enforce and which laws not to enforce.

he is managing his priroities and money better. As CHIEF EXECUTIVE he is priotitziing to go after the main problems of people currently jumping the fence, or illegals with criminal records.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):

There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system that for me to simply through executive order ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as President."

the Executive is doing his job by prioritizing issues while congress bides it's time coming up with an effective plan regarding immigration and enforcement . I emphasize EFFECTIVE.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39703 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4563 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 13):
it's a 2 year deferral.

More like kicking the can down the road for the next President to deal with. Same thing he did with the debt crisis which resulted in the first US credit downgrade in history.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6573 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4553 times:
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Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
More like kicking the can down the road for the next President to deal with

Which would be himself?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5358 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4554 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 8):
We all knew that this is what he wanted in 2008. If people wouldn't have wanted it then - he wouldn't have been elected

And, the people put a stop to his agenda in 2010 by curtailing his majority in The Senate and swinging The House by about 80 seats.

Quoting tugger (Reply 9):
I'll go along with this somewhat. The politics of compromise are none existent in Congress nowadays so they have become their own enemy.

Ok, change the Constitution, but until then, or until a more 'non-partisan' Congress is elected, he doesn't get to make his own laws.

Pure political pandering.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 13):
the Executive is doing his job by prioritizing issues while congress bides it's time coming up with an effective plan regarding immigration and enforcement . I emphasize EFFECTIVE.

You do realize I was quoting President Obama, right? He is the one who said that he can not ignore congressional mandates. Congress did not pass the DREAM Act...that means he should be enforcing the current law, which is, after due process, to deport illegal aliens.

[Edited 2012-06-15 13:29:04]


When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6573 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4540 times:
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Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
Ok, change the Constitution, but until then, or until a more 'non-partisan' Congress is elected, he doesn't get to make his own laws.

So what he was done is illegal? (serious question- asked twice already, no answer)

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
And, the people put a stop to his agenda in 2010 by curtailing his majority in The Senate and swinging The House by about 80 seats.

That still doesn't changed the fact that he was elected in 2008 for the same promises.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
Pure political pandering.

And opposition to gay right by the GOP is what? Not pandering? Please

News Flash: In politics EVERYONE panders! Some pandering happen to be more effective than others.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5421 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4531 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 13):
he is managing his priroities and money better. As CHIEF EXECUTIVE he is priotitziing to go after the main problems of people currently jumping the fence, or illegals with criminal records.

Yes, the whole stupid "the sky is falling!", "The president is anointing himself king" crap is stupid (really, stupid) as the President has long had the established right to issue directions to his branch to target what they are to do.

Quote:
US presidents have issued executive orders since 1789. Although there is no Constitutional provision or statute that explicitly permits executive orders, there is a vague grant of "executive power" given in Article II, Section 1, Clause 1 of the Constitution, and furthered by the declaration "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed" made in Article II, Section 3, Clause 4. Most Executive Orders use these Constitutional reasonings as the authorization allowing for their issuance to be justified as part of the President's sworn duties, the intent being to help direct officers of the US Executive carry out their delegated duties as well as the normal operations of the federal government: the consequence of failing to comply possibly being the removal from office.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_order#Basis_in_US_Constitution
.
Quoting casinterest (Reply 13):
it's a 2 year deferral.

So the people covered by this will be known and can still be deported if needed.

I have stated how I feel about the DREAM act, and granting those here illegally a path to citizenship. And still I don't disagree with what is being done here. We do need to focus our enforcement resources to those people that make the greatest impact, those here illegally that are most a danger to others.

The big problem with this though is that it still leaves those children in a total limbo, they can't get a job legally or do anything that normally requires citizenship, so how can they support themselves?

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4475 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4520 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
You do realize I was quoting President Obama, right? He is the one who said that he can not ignore congressional mandates. Congress did not pass the DREAM Act...that means he should be enforcing the current law, which is, after due process, to deport illegal aliens.

You DO REALIZE that a DEFERAL is not ignoring laws. Especially for folks that were MINORS at the time of the incident, and under law do not have the ability to conscientiously make a decision for themselves without adult decree.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4475 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4506 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
More like kicking the can down the road for the next President to deal with. Same thing he did with the debt crisis which resulted in the first US credit downgrade in history.

Look, the current congress already screwed it up. Rubio the golden child still hasn;t been ablle to put together anything that makes sense. 2 years hopefully gets Obama to a house and senate that aren't in a cold war.  



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19411 posts, RR: 58
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4504 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
Same thing he did with the debt crisis which resulted in the first US credit downgrade in history.

Really? I seem to remember that it was Congress with a deadline, not the President.


User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6573 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4504 times:
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Quoting tugger (Reply 18):
The president is anointing himself king"

Hold the phone.. News from the Internet!

The United States has had the following "kings'"

Herbert Hoover (1929-1933)
Franklin D. Roosevelt (1933-1945)
Harry S Truman (1945-1953)
Dwight D. Eisenhower (1953-1961)
John F. Kennedy (1961-1963)
Lyndon B. Johnson (1963-1969)
Richard Nixon (1969-1974)
Gerald R. Ford (1974-1977)
Jimmy Carter (1977-1981)
Ronald Reagan (1981-1989)
George H.W. Bush (1989-1993)
Bill Clinton (1993-2001)
George W. Bush (2001-2009)
Barack Obama (2009-present)

"King" GWB was responsible for 288 orders. Obama -so far- only 115. Does that make him "double the king"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ed_States_federal_executive_orders

[Edited 2012-06-15 13:44:29]


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39703 posts, RR: 75
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

Former Pennsylvania governor Ed Rendell has been vocal about his disapproval of Obama and has said publicly that Hillary Clinton would have been a better President.
Looks like his base is crumbling.


http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ren...4/id/442391?s=al&promo_code=F30A-1



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 2994 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4503 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 3):
Yes he has made himself King. Why do we even need Congress or the Constitution anymore?

His behind the scenes polling must be bad to be tossing all of this out this early.

As if other presidents before him didn't issue Executive Orders. Right, because this was something the 110th Congress approved just as Obama took office...

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
Why have a Congress if The President can do what he wants? Any president?

You can also ask why have a president if Congress will oppose his every move?

Quoting Superfly (Reply 14):
the first US credit downgrade in history.

Oh no...the end of the world...wait. I'm still here, and the US is still here. And guess what? The US dollar and stock market are higher. I guess the downgrade didn't have a big impact after all. Oh, and don't forget the reason S&P gave for the downgrade:
http://www.standardandpoors.com/rati...icles/en/us/?assetID=1245316529563

Look at the third bullet. it specifically mentioned the deal between Congress and the president. Now...I wonder...which party has a majority in the house and came close to a majority in the senate? Yeah, I thought so.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
Quoting mt99 (Reply 8):
We all knew that this is what he wanted in 2008. If people wouldn't have wanted it then - he wouldn't have been elected

And, the people put a stop to his agenda in 2010 by curtailing his majority in The Senate and swinging The House by about 80 seats.

So why are you blaming him for taking action if "people stopped his agenda"? That's what I find ironic. You want him to work, but you vote in a party that will oppose his every move even if it's what they preach. So what would you have him do? Leave him as a lame duck for the 2 years before the elections? Make him resign? The fact that the GOP made significant gains in Congress doesn't mean that Obama still doesn't have plans to put forward. If Americans never wanted Obama in office, why was he elected in the first place? He made these promises public: universal healthcare, path to citizenship for illegal immigrants, etc. Maybe Americans should have voted for McCain and kept the conservative agenda instead of punishing the GOP by voting for Democrats.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
25 fr8mech : "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed"..."the Laws" The implication is the executive orders are used to expedite the enforcement of laws cu
26 tugger : Well, yeah, I think many people agree with this. I know I do. But then most people also wish they had voted for someone else other than Bush II in th
27 Mir : No. The deportation law leaves it up to the executive branch to determine who should and should not be deported. There is nothing that says that cert
28 casinterest : Can we havew a new thread for such an irrelevant discussion?
29 fr8mech : people did not stop his agenda...The People stopped his agenda. Yes, that was the effect that The People were looking for when they took away the Dem
30 RussianJet : Genius. Way to encourage trafficking of young people Mr Pres.....
31 Post contains links mt99 : Google is our friend "In a Rose Garden address Friday afternoon, President Barack Obama said the changes caused by his executive order will make immi
32 Post contains images tugger : Correct, and as I said, I agree that we need to focus our limited law enforcement resources specifically on those here illegally that cause the most
33 Maverick623 : I find it hilarious that banks can take stupid risks, lose a buttload of money on it, and then make people believe that the country (and specifically
34 Superfly : Will these illegals have access to Obamacare? If so, Congressman Joe Wilson (R-SC) was correct when he shouted out; "You lie" in Obama's State of the
35 RussianJet : Nope. Give the impression that things like this can happen and people will come. Pretty much any form of amnesty encourages trafficking.
36 tugger : No matter what, the congressman was not correct when he shouted out. Period. It was wrong. He was wrong to do it. And sorry for another Tugg
37 Superfly : No argument there.
38 windy95 : This is exactly what a dictator does, not an American president. We are a constitutional republic. The rule of law and the separation of powers are co
39 tugger : That is a nonsensical statement on it's face based on what was actually done. Why would you make such a statement? It is just not a smart or well tho
40 Post contains images connies4ever : BHO seems to have touched some nerves today ... I believe the US President IS an elected King. He has a lot of reserved powers to act in the national
41 PSA53 : Part one is yes.That's why it's such a fuss right now.Once they apply for work status they may apply for work anywhere.Part 2.Don't know,but I'd say
42 windy95 : Yes. They can apply for two-year work permits, with unlimited renewal opportunities. Adding more legal workers to an already large unemplyed workforc
43 Maverick623 : Not really a valid point, as Congress can override a veto by a 2/3 majority. The President's power to veto is a check on Congress, and Congress being
44 fr8mech : Which is why I expected it in September. It's a great poltical move and, quite coincidentally I'm sure, coincides with Time Magazine's cover story th
45 Post contains images tugger : Well that's a good thing of course. It keeps wages lower which makes the USA more competitive. Just like police chiefs in cities, they can decide to
46 einsteinboricua : Speaking about jobs, you have to truly wonder if there are not jobs to go around. Are you hoping to land a dream job where you have a personal secreta
47 windy95 : How to enforce it is far different than not enforcing it. Obama is choosing to NOT enforce the law. He is changing the intent of the law passed not u
48 2707200X : I wonder of any conservative will chastise their hero Ronald Reagan and George W, Bush on amnesty, some time ago Republicans supported the DREAM Act.
49 ltbewr : The sainted Republican President Ronald Reagan supported bills, laws and policy that gave amnesty to 3,000,000 + illegals. In his term of office so fa
50 Venus6971 : Obama's campaign staff is assuming that the rest of the United States is just as stupid as the voters in Chicago/Cook County ILL that keep reelecting
51 Post contains images einsteinboricua : Now I wonder if John Boehner will oppose this measure. After all, he wanted kids to have a shot at the American Dream...like he did...*sniff* Or have
52 Post contains links mt99 : There are plenty of "dumb laws" that are not enforced by local authorities. Texas has a law limiting the ownership of six or more phalic sex toys. "S
53 tugger : You are wrong. It is a "how to enforce" situation. Around here "no u-turn" isn't enforced unless it is a dangerous situation. With the EO, there will
54 Maverick623 : Well, that's part of the problem. People think a college degree is all you need to land a job. They eschew actual real-world experience and networkin
55 Mir : Cite me the passage of the law that says that illegal immigrants must be deported. -Mir
56 flymia : This is a purely POLITICAL move just undermining the American people. This is President Obama saying Americans are stupid let me just put out a memo a
57 Maverick623 : Not always: there's been a few cases (in one case, a minor) where natural-born US citizens have been accidentally deported. And those that do get dep
58 Post contains links Revelation : It seems it must have been a slow news day over at FOX, or they feel their God-given (and Murdock-provided) power to "fight for Truth, Justice, and th
59 connies4ever : It seems the cusp of the argumentation in this thread is whether or not what Obama's EO entails in unconstitutional. I know I don't have a dog in this
60 flymia : Mistakes do happen, when almost 400,000 people are deported each year people are bound to make mistakes. The majority of these people were caught bec
61 Post contains links and images fr8mech : You know, all this talk about the DEAM Act and whether it's right or wrong, is really besides the point. I will, once again, for those that missed it,
62 windy95 : Yes it was wrong then as it is now. Unless we enforce and close the border any amnesty is just going to make thing's worse. Why have any immigration
63 Mir : Second time asking: which law is he ignoring? Specifics, please. -Mir
64 flymia : If you are an illegal immigrant and you are not eligible for any relief you are suppose to go home to your country of citizenship. Certain people are
65 FlyPNS1 : That's how most American's got here. My maternal great grandparents got on a boat, arrived in the U.S. and entered the country with virtually no ques
66 windy95 : Maybe you should ask the constitutional law professor. He is on record more than one time saying he could not do this. Maybe he could give some speci
67 tugger : Aren't you the same? Aren't we all? Isn't every president the same with regards to your statement? As that is true (it is) why are acting so indignan
68 DeltaMD90 : Probably the worst justification for anything I've ever heard. Look, I don't want to really get into this messy debate, but it amazes me how many peo
69 windy95 : From Obamas Saturday address So he will do whatever he want's to get re-elected. Who cares what the law's and the Constitution say. Democrats in Congr
70 tugger : No offense taken, I know what you mean. Just because a lot of people do something doesn't "make it right". And that of course is very true. But I am
71 einsteinboricua : Congress has pretty much made sure that this happens, especially the current one. To block a president's ideas just because their own goal (as stated
72 ltbewr : Congress, especially the current Republican one, could kill off or make it impossible to carry out this policy by playing with the budget of the DHS/I
73 Mir : Can you cite the specific passage that says that? Sorry, that's not going to work. I had a look through the law on deportations and I saw nothing to
74 flymia : When I have some time to go on westlaw i will look something up. Honestly not exactly sure if the INA says these people must be deported but if they
75 FlyPNS1 : Congress has made itself obsolete in its inability to get anything done. Regardless of political party in charge, Congress has been a lame duck for m
76 Post contains images Revelation : So you leave no room for him doing what he thinks is right, even if it is also political? Any time they want they can pass a law stating exactly what
77 Post contains links mt99 : What about Romney? Is he your leader? is he the one with a spine to take a position? Maybe he thinks its a good idea - why else would he not come out
78 Post contains links fr8mech : Because, Cubans are fleeing political oppresion. A long standing reason that the Federal Government has foregone removal proceedings. You may be, but
79 flymia : No it's not that easy, you can't just place them on a flight to Cuba and say see you later. The U.S. government also does not send people back to cou
80 vinniewinnie : That's beside the point. If congress wasn't as crazy as it is today, Obama would not have to do this. Also also, please be advised that this is a tem
81 mt99 : Do you hold Romney to the same standards? Obsbously not. No it doesnt. He could have showed everyon how he is not a politician and taken true leaders
82 fr8mech : That is not beside the point. It's basic to The Constitution and our government. Congress makes laws, The President enforces them. If Congress is 'cr
83 Revelation : I thought it was all about the Constitution? Ref: What makes political oppression more acceptable than fear of drug cartels or fear of starvation? It
84 windy95 : What a load of BS. A split congress or one that is divided from the President is nothing new to this country. It in no way justifies the abuse of pow
85 Post contains links fr8mech : In this case I shall refer you to The Immigration and Naturalization Act, Sections 207, 208 & 209. http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/usc...010VgnV
86 einsteinboricua : So what should the president do if Congress doesn't make laws because they want him as a one-term president?
87 Post contains images connies4ever : Is it just me trying to see a bigger picture ? As far as the natives are concerned, ALL of you are illegal immigrants. Thus affirming the old adage t
88 vinniewinnie : Load of BS? Congress has never been as partizan as today! The ideological divide has never been as wide!!! Where are the southern democrats today? ne
89 FlyPNS1 : The same could be said for many Mexicans whose government is largely controlled by violent drug cartels. Many Mexicans cannot safely return to Mexico
90 windy95 : Why do they have to deal with it? We have law's on the books. Prosecute them. He is not enforcing, executing or prosecuting the law that congress had
91 windy95 : Read some history books. Yes because the left has actually left the playing field. It has nothing to do with ideology. Follow the Constitution or cha
92 us330 : So, he's a hypocrite, trying to get reelected (or elected), and doing whatever it takes to do so. This describes 90% of politicians. As president he
93 connies4ever : Suspending implementation of any law temporarily is not "not enforcing ...yadda yadda". It's temporarily suspending implementation. Smaller import, b
94 FlyPNS1 : The laws don't work, hence why we have 10-15 million illegal immigrants wandering the country and only capture a tiny fraction of them. However, sinc
95 Mir : The way I read the law, there is nothing that says that people have to be deported. Therefore, the executive branch is within their boundaries to est
96 mt99 : You mean Romney by not addressing the issue directly? So? if he is as principled as you guys have us believe he should come and say it.
97 fr8mech : I'm guessing that president would need to moderate and move closer to the Congress. Easier to move one than 535. That's how the system is supposed to
98 einsteinboricua : He tried that once. Remember the debt ceiling debate?
99 vinniewinnie : In modern days? What do you mean? U'd be the first one to cry if the constitution were to be changed drastically Partizan crap at its extreme. U'r a
100 Post contains images windy95 : Not if it was done within the framework. It may be something I do not like but if it passes the proper way then I would have to deal with it. Nothing
101 Dreadnought : It's amazing how the Obama crowd seems to think that theirs is the first president to ever face serious opposition in Congress. They all have had to
102 mt99 : You are making it sound like this was the first time an Executive Order was issued. Has Romney said anything about this yet? How disappointing it mus
103 mbmbos : The current administration has faced an unprecedented level of hostility and intransigence by the opposing party. The Republican party has openly dec
104 Dreadnought : Your profile shows that you are old enough to remember the Dems blocking just about anything GWB wanted to get done in terms of domestic affairs. Bus
105 Revelation : It's amazing (to use your word) how some here watched this year's GOP primary where one of the major GOP candidates who used to be Speaker of the Hou
106 Dreadnought : Huh? I might have heard that charge once or twice, but that was hardly a widespread opinion. He did his job, just like Tip O'Neil did with Reagan in
107 EA CO AS : The President has done this, in large part, to take the wind out of what would likely have been pretty large Republican sails when SCOTUS upholds subs
108 Post contains images Ken777 : Considering that the President is equal to Congress in terms of authority I don't have an issue with Obama taking this act. Just look that the promis
109 connies4ever : As I clearly recall from those heady pre-Watergate days, Nixon's flacks tried to push calling the White House "The Presidential Palace". Didn't get v
110 Maverick623 : April 12, 1861. You should come to Phoenix sometime: there are stores where you'll get lost if you don't speak Spanish. Not that I think it's necessa
111 fr8mech : So, you're ok with Hussein ignoring the will of Congress, which, in our republic is supposed to reflect the will of The People. Completely irrelevant
112 mt99 : Are you OK with Mittens hiding from stating a clear public position on the issue? As far we all can tell, he agrees with Obama as he won't say that h
113 Mir : Where is he changing the law? Please cite the law that he is violating. Which section of the INA is he running afoul of? -Mir
114 Dreadnought : He is running afoul of the Immigration and Nationality Acts of 1954 and 1965, which requires the government to deport Non-Immigrant Visa Overstayers,
115 mt99 : You better inform Mitt Romney. He does not intend to change Obamas order. Seem like an easy thing to do..[Edited 2012-06-18 18:56:18]
116 Ken777 : That's pretty funny. Wish I had ben able to get my hands on one while W was in office. More growth. This country grew because of immigration and we n
117 casinterest : The next time a cop pulls you over for a ticket and attempts to give you a warning. Please inform him that his is not doing his job, and to prosecute
118 Mir : As I've mentioned, I've looked through that act, and I've seen nothing that says that the government is required to deport those people. Section 237
119 mt99 : I know right. All the usual suspects are mad at Obama for doing this - they should be FUMING at Romney for no putting a clear end to this "travesty".
120 okie : My first impression from your comment is that it is not OK to return the children of illegal immigrants to their homeland. Where does abortion of unb
121 casinterest : What does mormonism have to do with your question?
122 Mir : One other thing to think about. The Federal Government has limited resources (which I would imagine you think is a good thing). Given that, how those
123 vinniewinnie : Oooh so comparable!!! 1861 let me think no lightbulb, not telephone, no plane ever flew, the pony express just starting linking St louis to Sacrament
124 Post contains links casinterest : http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/m...ome-u-illegally-had-111859436.html Now we know how politically astute Obama's move was here. He took the wind r
125 Post contains links fr8mech : No, actually, I'm not ok with Mr. Romney's lack of position here. If this was Mr. Romney bypassing Congress, I would be just as pissed. You are so ea
126 casinterest : He didn't unsurp congress. he made a move that congress wasn't willing to make in 3 years, and the only reason Rubio was advancing his plan was for G
127 windy95 : Nothing inflexible about it. What part of being able to amend the Constitution to deal with changes of the times do you not understand? What about ba
128 fr8mech : Thereby usurping Congresses authority to make law. Just because Mr. Obama doesn't like what Congress is doing (or not doing) does not give a presiden
129 Post contains images Dreadnought : His position should be not to say anything about it. As soon as he or any other part of the executive branch takes the oath of office to execute the
130 Mir : Which is exactly what the Administration is doing. The new policy only applies to certain conditions. -Mir
131 mt99 : If God forbid) he becomes President, he would not reverse what Obama has done. It makes him an accomplice. He should be open about it, Why not? is he
132 casinterest : He is the cief EXECUTIVE. It is his job to prioritze based on available resources. Or he could go BIG MONEY and BIG GOVERNMENT and enforce it on ever
133 Post contains images vinniewinnie : The part where keeping up with the spirit and the words of our founding fathers trumps all realities! I laugh when you keep on saying that the consti
134 fr8mech : We don't know what he will do, do we? But, if (God forbid) Mr. Obama gets re-elected, will he approach Congress to codify his extra-Constitutional ac
135 mt99 : That's the whole point!. He wont say either way! The fact that he wont categorically come out against it should be making the heads of everyone at Fo
136 Maverick623 : Not sure if serious.... Hold up there. You said the country has never been more divided. Last I checked, we didn't have states trying to secede and f
137 windy95 : I also imagine if he really tried to reach over the aisle and pass a stand alone one page bill with no attachment's for the this portion of the DREAM
138 bjorn14 : In four years he has gone from that to a guest lecturer who mainly talked about basketball and cars. Tell that to the 800K people who don't a have jo
139 FlyPNS1 : Not a chance. The far right has said they will not accept amnesty under any terms.
140 vinniewinnie : As I stated you can't compare the dark ages with modern days.... Maybe I should have said in modern daya Oh come on here! We all know that the econom
141 Post contains links fr8mech : Racist It seems he said that himself a few years ago. “A year from now I think people are going to see that we're starting to make some progress,"
142 vinniewinnie : Who me? You kiddin right. We'r talking demographics something that is being talked about at nauseum by both republican parties & respectable news
143 fr8mech : Had I said, Obama is pandering to the Democratic base (poor minority folks of with a lower level of economic and educational achievement): I would be
144 vinniewinnie : I wouldn't have! When Obama stated his support for Gay marriage, the media was saying he was risking the black vote... That's not racist either that
145 Mir : Because this policy is reversible. If Romney should win the election in November, he can direct whoever his Attorney General is to enforce the law a
146 Revelation : Are you just as pissed about Lincoln bypassing Congress and freeing the slaves? Indeed. It's next to impossible to write a law that is both fair and
147 fr8mech : No, translation: Obama Administration sycophants see nothing wrong with this because he's doing 'the right thing'. Conservatives, who may or may not
148 casinterest : You keep using this word, and you are using it completely out of context. But yes this thread needs to end ,because your initiial claims are incorect
149 fr8mech : syc·o·phant   /ˈsɪkəfənt, -ˌfænt, ˈsaɪkə-/ Show Spelled[sik-uh-fuhnt, -fant, sahy-kuh-] Show IPA noun 1. a self-seeking, servile flatt
150 Mir : The Emancipation Proclamation was an executive order with a fancier name. -Mir
151 casinterest : Rather general., as it applies to anyone who makes any political statement. " " So you support enforcement on a legal technicality,even if you see th
152 Mir : Well, if the law says that you have to deport people, then you have to have to follow it to the letter, even if you see the law as wrong. But the law
153 casinterest : Yet again a technicality. The obvious logical prosecution for illegal immigration is incarceration or repatriation. However in this case, why incarce
154 Dreadnought : It was a wartime propaganda ploy, which was almost immediately (and properly) codified into law by the 13th amendment. Lincoln didn't just throw it o
155 casinterest : Neither did Obama. There is a reason why this thread has the title DREAM in it. Due to riders and other items deemed unpleasent, the Dream act did no
156 fr8mech : It did not free all the slaves, immediately...it freed those that the Union Army had released during battle. Yes, it ordered that the states in rebel
157 Revelation : You're dancing around the issue that Lincoln very well could have submitted a bill to Congress instead. You're also hanging your hat on the military
158 fr8mech : I'm not so sure there was a law against integration (more custom and policy, but I could be wrong), but, in that vein, I will submit that as Commande
159 casinterest : So you choose to let poeple who have on their own volition not committed an adult crime be improperly punished for Congressional squalbles over detai
160 Mir : It was two years later. Granted, things took longer then, but I wouldn't call it immediate. If the language of the PPACA allowed the government discr
161 Revelation : And as Chief Executive, Obama has every right to direct the DOJ on deportation policies that still fall within the law, and Congress has the right to
162 Post contains images Mir : Which, funnily enough, is the very next thing Obama says after the section that Fr8mech quoted in the OP, supposedly as an example of how Obama was g
163 Post contains links Revelation : And I'll add that Obama is free to change his mind, which for some reason seems to upset people. As above: Up to that point, Obama felt he could work
164 windy95 : They happened to be citizens of this country so no. And it did not give them something extra that other citizens did not already have. Just made them
165 bjorn14 : I still don't get why Obama wants (or his followers) want to give lawbreakers benefits they don't deserve.
166 mt99 : I still don't get why Romney doesn't address the issue head on, and say that he would change the policy the second that he is sworn in.
167 bjorn14 : I fundamentally agree but it would turn into a media 'gotcha moment'. He probably doesn't want to risk alienating the Hispanics. But what a lot of Hi
168 Post contains images mt99 : So he is pandering? So? what if it is a "gotcha" moment? He should not be afraid to defend the constitution openly and vehemently, and stop Obama's m
169 bjorn14 : No he's playing the middle. Why take a position when you really don't have to. As another A.netter (I think) said, "When your opponent is making a mi
170 casinterest : Wrong. Not talking about lawbreakers. we are talking about those that didn't have anything to do with the decision.
171 mt99 : Are you calling him spineless? Where is the conviction? Where is the leadership?
172 Mir : These are people who were brought here when they were young, and probably didn't have a say in the decision. They're in school, they're trying to bet
173 Revelation : Obama just made the children not responsible for things their parents did, no? This is why the GOP fails on this issue. The Executive does have leewa
174 windy95 : No, He also gave them a benefit. Supporting non citizens over citizens. How about he makes an executive order making the parent's of these people res
175 Mir : He doesn't have to, because they're not covered by the new policy. No change in application of discretion for them. -Mir
176 casinterest : Sure fine, but these follks are no longer kids, and are adults now in the US. It's a catch-22 and a slippery slope that does not have a simple ethica
177 bjorn14 : So if I bring my kids to the US illegally, they get to stay if they're good kids and get all kind of benefits because States won't ask us about our n
178 mt99 : Yes!. That is what Romney says he wont change. Shocking.. if you ask me
179 Ken777 : And he is an equal power to Congress. So a police captain can order that other countries can be invaded? The police captain can nominate judges? The
180 Maverick623 : You misunderstand the meaning of "equal". The President cannot, nor should not be able to, override the laws that Congress has passed and the Preside
181 Mir : And the president hasn't. -Mir
182 casinterest : That's the spirit that made america great. However your slandering of the name of this country proves how little you value it.
183 Dreadnought : So crime made America great? Why am I not surprised you feel that way?
184 mt99 : A "crime" that Romney does not say would stop. That is surprising!
185 Ken777 : Presidents have in the past, and will in the future, determine the speed with with they administer the laws. In areas like the illegals the President
186 casinterest : What crime did those kids commit? Come on? Have you retread the thread start, or are you just another ignorant member of the radical right that spout
187 Dreadnought : I never said the kids did - their parents did. But neither should the kids be allowed to profit from the parents' crimes. Do you think it would be OK
188 windy95 : Correct. The anchor baby is allready being misused and should be stopped. Correct again. To bad we do not have the same immigration policy that Mexic
189 mt99 : No, but should Bernie's kid go to jail with him? Again, so does Romney.. An you are counting on Romney to take decisive action again this? Maybe we s
190 Revelation : And for about the tenth time, show us what actual law is not being followed! Answer: you can't, because if such law existed, we'd all know about it a
191 Dreadnought : Wait a second - are you saying that sending the children (with their families) back to the country of their nationality is a punishment? Equivalent t
192 mt99 : Hmmm ..Cuba included? Fine, we agree.. What is Romney going to do about it? He will keep Obamas policy.. so.. How do you fee about Romney continuing
193 vinniewinnie : Yeah but as a kid you didn't have a choice... And what would that meamn for those kids? Once again if u've lived, breat THEIR country? They've hardly
194 Ken777 : But they can go to the local schools that were financed by various taxes that their parents also paid. That's a bit different than kids of the guys t
195 Dreadnought : Read the part I wrote about political asylum. He'll have to answer for it. Tough titty. If their parents decided to drag them through the illegality,
196 windy95 : The million's of unemployed legal resident's It is a wash because we will be paying less expenses without the illegals here. Also those jobs will not
197 Post contains images Ken777 : Sure he will. He's ben avoiding making any comment outside of his "we'll end the temporary program and bring in a long term plan". You have to go bac
198 mt99 : When? He has had the chance to say that he would stop this many times already. Why hasn't he? Any criticism of Obama (right or wrong) should go doubl
199 Mir : You'll still have fewer people, thus fewer customers for businesses. The reason Perry got skewered for his views on immigration (not hardline enough)
200 Ken777 : Because he really doesn't know what to do. The best he has been able to do so far is "Self Deportation". Maybe he had a really smart plan all written
201 Post contains images bjorn14 : Yes, just like Thomas Woodrow Wilson, John Calvin Coolidge, Stephen Grover Cleveland You have showed a contempt by allowing people to willfully break
202 jpetekyxmd80 : Um, I've been in this thread all of 2 seconds and I can already see he was talking about population and not economy.
203 mt99 : In Madoff's situation the "punishment" for the "crime" was jail. So equating the sending Madoff's kid to jail with deporting kids to their parents co
204 windy95 : To bad we do not hold people to the same standard of immigration that their homeland has like Mexico. The point that he is a republican or white?
205 casinterest : These kids aren't living off of their parents fortune. They went to high school. they served in the military. We already trained them. Whether that w
206 Mir : If you want to live in a country that holds people to Mexican immigration laws, it's only a quick hop across the border. -Mir
207 mt99 : That is what America the greatest country in the world, and that is what makes Mexico... well Mexico. Or are you suggestion that we treat immigrants
208 Post contains links Revelation : Interesting that you are arguing in favor of Mexico's progressive immigration laws: Ref: http://www.outboundvisasolutions.com...-after-40-years-under
209 Ken777 : We are a country of people. Both men & women. Laws provide a general framework, but it is the people who make the country what it is today. And,
210 bjorn14 : Tell that to people trying to enter Mexico from Guatemala as the Mexican Army patrols that border.
211 casinterest : What exactly is your point? Over 400,000 folks a year jump the border successfully between Guatamala and Mexico.
212 Revelation : And once they get there the law says: Those bad-ass Mexicans!
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