Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6123 posts, RR: 14 Posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4909 times:
So I was looking through my twitter feed, and I come across a link to this donation pool to give a bus monitor a vacation. Fair enough, I suppose that she probably can't afford one. Then I saw the attached video.
Dude, seriously, WTF is wrong with some kids? With all of the anti-bullying stuff I see left and right lately, did it somehow miss these kids? No one should be treated like this. Nobody. Ever. Period. Especially one's elders.
darthluke12694 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4853 times:
Wow. That is crazy. And to think these are middle school kids! Wait until they get to high school. I just graduated from high school, and unfortunately I have seen things like this happen before (not as bad though). Not to bus monitors (we don't even have monitors), but to teachers. And you know what the bad thing is? Teachers just put up with it. Sometimes the teacher gives the student a referral, but it never does any good. And this is becoming all too common.
It's really sad how some students act. And it's not just verbally either. I've been in a class where a student set a trash can on fire, put a piece of paper on fire, put a condom on the teachers water bottle, throw something at her, an even curse a teacher out. And the students barely got punished, if at all. It's very messed up. The whole "punishment" system is all messed up. Punishments never do any good. They aren't severe enough. The "ultimate" punishment would be to have the student expelled from school. But guess what? Schools are afraid to do that, because it goes against their drop out rate. And if the rate gets too high (about 50 students in my school out of about 1700 students), the state comes in and takes over and the whole administration is at risk of getting fired.
I just think the whole education system is VERY messed up. It is RIDICULOUS how hard teachers have to work just to have one student pass their class, when the student doesn't even care to begin with. But guess what? If the student fails, it goes against the teachers record and also against the schools drop out record, because once a student fails a class, the chance of them dropping out rises significantly.
I'm glad that I am out of high school, and that I am going to college and that I will actually get to be with students that actually want to learn (or at least for the most part). For the most part, I took honors and AP classes, so I definitely didn't see all that I could have. But the few regular classes I did have, it was very different.....
2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8945 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4837 times:
We don't just have kids bulling kids these day is seems now they bully parents, I saw at a 99 cent store about two years ago a seven or eight year old boy threaten out loud that if his mom did not buy cookies for him he would soil his pants in public and now a school staff member of the school is subjected to kid bullying. There is no excuse for bad behavior even in a bad economy but this is particularly grotesque. I must ask, what is going on at home?
"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21975 posts, RR: 55
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4803 times:
Every kid who abused that woman (and that's what it is: abuse) should, at the very minimum, lose their bus-riding privileges. Make their parents drive them to school and pick them up at the end of the day. And if the parents can't spare the time, too damn bad - maybe then they can impress upon their kids how important it is to treat people with respect.
Nobody deserves to be treated like that simply for trying to do their job. And I'm glad to see that so much money has been raised in support of her.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
GSPflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4735 times:
Props to her for not flipping out on the little stuck up pricks. If that would've happened, one of the kids parents would have gone to the school the next morning, talked to the principal, and had her fired.
Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 2): And the students barely got punished, if at all. It's very messed up. The whole "punishment" system is all messed up. Punishments never do any good. They aren't severe enough. The "ultimate" punishment would be to have the student expelled from school. But guess what? Schools are afraid to do that, because it goes against their drop out rate.
Yep. I graduated High School in 2010. My school expelled a few kids, but most punishments were out of school suspension. Great idea, make the kid go home for 5 days so he can be home alone and invite over all of his friends who were also suspended and they can all smoke pot together. That will teach them. For less serious offenses, the student got a referral, which does nothing. Maybe they would get in-school suspension, where they couldn't socialize with anyone all day. ..one step above out of school suspension.
I think my middle school had the right idea for punishment, even though it was only an alternate to suspension, or to have a (virtually meaningless) referral wiped off your record. It was called "boot camp" where the school resource officer led the group of students who would have to do military type drills during the school day, and do their classwork as well. It was a good way to teach them discipline. It made examples of the students as well, when they would have to do drills or stand at attention in front of their classmates. Looking at their website, I can't find any mention of the program, so I guess they did away with it. Probably a pissed off parent of an embarrassed kid threatening to sue.
stratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1660 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4705 times:
Holy Christ I wish I was on that bus I would have grabbed that little bastard by the throat I don't care if I went to jail for it. I would have said ok my fat ass has you by the throat what are you going to do now? F'kn punk ass kids have no respect for elders these days. I would have got my ass beat if I ever came even close to what they did and of course I would never have done that since I was raised properly.
darthluke12694 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4705 times:
Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 8): Maybe they would get in-school suspension, where they couldn't socialize with anyone all day. ..one step above out of school suspension.
Totally agree with you. ISS does way more than OSS. At least with ISS, you can't enjoy yourself because you can't talk to anyone and do busy work all day (not that I would know, I've never even had a referral, just what I've heard).
Quoting GSPflyer (Reply 8): I can't find any mention of the program, so I guess they did away with it. Probably a pissed off parent of an embarrassed kid threatening to sue.
That's the problem. One parent gets mad, then it all goes to heck. See at least one story about a parent getting mad each week on the news. I know in my middle school, the principal was able to paddle the students, as long as the parents gave permission. Of course they might have done away with that by now.
I don't know. I think it's real easy to say that, but I don't think it's the whole story either. By way of anecdote, I have a seven year old that I've yet to send to her room, and she's generally very well behaved. Manipulative as all hell, but generally polite, and likely the type who'd be embarrassed to be seen with the types in the video. Her ten year old sister, OTOH is a bit more... active. Though most of the time that one is well enough behaved not to be a liability, she has been subject to disciplinary and/or counseling actions in the past, and requires a bit more attention.
Both are growing up in the same home, but again, for the smaller one, virtually all form of discipline is surplus to her needs.
As for the kids in the video, what has me concerned is that I hear a lot of "peer pressure" going on there. They're antagonizing this woman with a complete lack of stimulus, which tells me someone started it to be "cool" and the rest are jumping on to one up one another. They may well be otherwise good kids. As a parent, that would be the type of thing I'd want to look out for, as there will not be signs of this behavior at home.
Be a Perfectionist. You're Nothing if You're Just Another...
KiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8098 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4670 times:
I'd say the problem with kids these days is political correctness and anti smacking laws, here in Norway you can't smack a kid, the schools drill this into them at an early age, if mum or dad give you a wack you have to report them, parents are too scared to discipline them so they become horrible unruly kids, just imagine what they sort of adults they will turn into.
seb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11926 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4667 times:
Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 2): And you know what the bad thing is? Teachers just put up with it. Sometimes the teacher gives the student a referral, but it never does any good. And this is becoming all too common.
Every parent believes their child in an angel. Their precious would never do anything like that. Teachers are not allowed to do anything but give a referral. If they do any real discipline, they are fired and sued by the parents becuase it would scar their children. HA!! Maybe the parent's should get involved in their child's life.
Quoting darthluke12694 (Reply 2): Schools are afraid to do that, because it goes against their drop out rate.
A great question I'd like to know the answer to! I'm merely a year or two older than these kids... while the kids at the school I've attended for middle and ninth grade (transferring this summer elsewhere) where not like this with faculty and staff (likely because it was a private school and booting people out is much easier) they could be with fellow students. What amazes me about this is the sheer stupidity of these kids. Saying things like this to an employee of the school district... and recording it while they are at it! And putting it online! Anyone with half a brain would realize that this would be an incredibly stupid thing to do... then again, kids my age don't do very much thinking before they act (that is, if they think at all.) . And this is the generation that I will have to live with; that's what worries me!
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
I agree bring it back. Caning was banned in my second to last year at school; you can imagine the chaos at an all boys school without any viable method of punishment, detention don't work. I was caned a few times, it hurt but it worked.
Rabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1025 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4519 times:
I really dislike their behavior, but isn't that a genuine part of our culture that the winners are entitled to make fun of the losers? I think most people do it here and there, albeit not as raw and uncultured as these kids.
SmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4472 times:
Quoting Rabenschlag (Reply 19): I really dislike their behavior, but isn't that a genuine part of our culture that the winners are entitled to make fun of the losers? I think most people do it here and there, albeit not as raw and uncultured as these kids.
Perhaps...but who the hell are a bunch of middle school kids to deem anyone else a "loser"!
Here is a 68-year old lady who is still healthy, able to live independently, work, and continue to contribute to society. Probably after raising a family etc. THAT IS WIN.
Getting bullied by a bunch of nosepickers who have accomplished absolutely NOTHING yet.
I think it's that their childhoods are so micro-managed that little time remains to explore. If you can't do that, you have a much lower risk of failing, e.g. at climbing a tree - but failure teaches you about your own limits and it shows you that guidance from others (as well as cooperation with them) is valuable.
Another symptom of that micro-management is that the children don't learn to deal with boredom as much as they used to. When they're told to do this, that and the other all day long, they get bored and hence aggressive when they aren't given some sort of occupation. Daydreaming has been declared an unproductive waste of time, yet I'm sure it was an important part of the childhoods of most a.netters.
To all the supporters of corporal punishment: Do you honestly believe that beatings will instill respect in children? They may well make them "behave", but solely out of fear - a fear that nurtures hatred for the beating authoritarian and admiration for the bully who stands up to him. Respect is mutual and cannot be conjured up through violence.
Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
flipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1596 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4443 times:
I shall tell you a "hypothetical" story here.
Lets say there was a person in my life who is around 30 years my senior and used to be a teacher.
He was teching a geography class and there was an annoying little brat teasing another child who was larger than the other children. The larger child was obviosly getting annoyed with the little brat calling him names and poking him in the tummy etc. My father The teacher decided to ignore it and could see the larger boy becoming angry untill he lashed out at the brat, being bigger than the brat the larger boy did some damage (black eye etc) but only one hit. The brat then started to wail "sir, sir he hit me, HE HIT ME!", the teacher then raised his eyebrows to the brat and said "well I didn't see anything and I can't think of any reason why he would hit you", the protests stopped and I think justice was done. The brat was much better behaved after he learned about the real word.
I was taught something very important by my father and that was with discipline (works for both kids and animals) that it doesn't matter too much where the line of discipline is drawn but it must always remain in the same place, people need to know the limits. A routine can aid this tremendously and I think that thats what a lot of young people today don't have.
Quoting aloges (Reply 21): I think it's that their childhoods are so micro-managed that little time remains to explore.
This is also important, but it should fit around a framework. Children do need to play and adventure (I think they learn a lot from it) and they do need to be allowed to hurt themselves (not catastrophically of course but a bloody knee will be ok).
P.S. I know I am not speaking as a parent here (I do have much experience with animals however). The phrase "speaking as a mother" is one of the worste expressions in the world I find because it comes accross to me as "I am someone who was able to mate successfully"
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6123 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (2 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4384 times:
Quoting seb146 (Reply 13): Every parent believes their child in an angel. Their precious would never do anything like that.
And that's part of the problem. Many parents are too short-sighted to see that their kid is still a kid, and that being a kid, they will not follow strict moral code 100% of the time; they will do dumb things; they will make stupid decisions. Since this is on Youtube, it's likely that this video will haunt these kids for the rest of their lives.
Quoting aloges (Reply 21): I think it's that their childhoods are so micro-managed that little time remains to explore. If you can't do that, you have a much lower risk of failing, e.g. at climbing a tree - but failure teaches you about your own limits and it shows you that guidance from others (as well as cooperation with them) is valuable.
Having been witness to many a nagging parent when it comes to music studies, I can say that there's truth to this. In the case of the music, the kids aren't allowed to play around musically with what they've learned, and the parents will yell at them if they aren't practicing exactly what's on the lesson. The kid can't grow if he's trapped in the shell.
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: Without minimizing how horrible the incident is--and how much each of us would teach each of those kids a lesson--let's not use this incident as a jum
: I can't play the parent/no parent/peer pressure angle, because that's all speculation, though its videos like this that make me wonder whether the old
: As long as it is reasonable, then yes. And I don't think any of us mean giving the kid a black eye. I'm sure most of us mean spanking the kid. Spanki
: To make matter worse I heard on the radio this morning, that she is widowed and lost her son to suicide 10 years ago. Good news though, through donati
: Left me speechless. Makes you wonder what their parent's are doing.
: This is just wrong on so many levels. This is part of the reason I am no longer very interested in K-12 Education. I guess the small victories is that
: Exactly. The problem is they have no fear of consequences. I grew-up in the deep south. The old Southern Baptists had a mantra about kids----"beat 'e
: Back in highschool one 16 year old male student became extremely fresh and insulting towards a male teacher, thinking probably "what can the teacher d
: About a year ago, an elementary school principle was interviewed regarding how schools no longer had the ability to discipline students in the same m
: While I generally agree - Think about it this way: the kids that were "disciplined" years ago are the parents of the kids doing these things.
: To further expand on your thought, if I may, this incident makes me wonder what we (as a society) could do but are NOT doing. I don't think these kid
: "America, beat yo' kids" -RIP Bernie Mac
: Violence would imply the element of anger or hate. Parents need to be clear on their motives for punishing their children in any situation. Not mine.
: This is so true! So are you saying that the old way of disciplining kids (which kept them in check) ultimately created bad parenting skills? I don't
: No good these days. Then teacher would be looking for a new job the following day.
: Parents! In almost all likelihoods, it's always either: 1. Parents don't give a damn or lacking it... 2. Parents fear punishment for "disciplining" t
: The good thing is according to French news (source: http://www.lepoint.fr/insolite/usa-u...obilise-21-06-2012-1476246_48.php) she earned $ 176.000 in
: I agree. ! With what the woman has been through, she deserves every penny Only, I'd make the family of the little bastard pay, twice in fact, once to
: For both posts this photo says it all. That isn't new, suspensions have been occurring for decades and the potential do that is the same as its alway
: Agreed. And I don't think it needs to go as far as physical punishment in most cases. Most kids rely on their parents for a lot of 'luxuries' that ca
: More effective than hitting them usually. It creates a lot of resentment towards your parents, I read an article that argued that the Tiger Mom and E