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'Israel For The White Man' Says Minister  
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Posted (2 years 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 4550 times:
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So what will happen to the Interior Minister for making such blatantly racist comments, during an interview about South Sudanese refugees? I guess not much, but would love to be proved wrong.

http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/...sudan-israel-is-for-the-white-man/

Really quite sad. Pretty hard to take the nation seriously if these are the kinds of words government ministers can go around saying. Religious differences we are kind of used to hearing about, but is out and out racism based on skin colour as prevalent in Israel as would be suggested by the fact that a government minister thinks it is ok to say things like this? Far from all Jews are white. Are non-white Jews routinely discriminated against in Israeli society?


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
73 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7062 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4162 times:

This person isn't just racist, but anti everything non white zionist it seems - demonstrated by this quote in the article....

“The infiltrators along with the Palestinians will quickly bring us to the end of the Zionist dream,”

Remembering that it took Ireland a long time to get there, I dream of a time when Israel will become a normal state, and not just a division of a religious majority.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineQFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2060 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4140 times:

This is a such a shame they're saying this and the Immigration minister should (and will) be condemned. Educated and valuable Africans -and anyone else- willing to integrate into Israeli society should be welcomed.

However I have a feeling that many are outraged that Israel is sending back refugees and this minister is just trying to cause more internal tensions. However the whole point of asylum is protection from persecution and danger to life. If circumstances change such that it is no longer a danger, ie having your own country, then they should be returned home. Thats without mentioning that many of the South Sudanese are illegal immigrants who were granted de facto asylum despite not going through appropriate channels.

Funny the hypocrisy in dealing with Israel, people will say Palestinian refugees should be given their own country and free to go home. However give South Sudanese a country and tell them to go home and chaos and cries of racism ensue. I can guarantee that my own country would not send any Palestinian refugees home in the event of a sovereign Palestine emerging and they certainly wouldn't halt the gravy train and leave themselves.

This is one of my major criticisms of modern asylum law, that it is now seen as easier to just resettle refugees than it is to try and fix some of the problems that exist in their home countries. Asylum should not be permanent unless it absolutely must be, many asylum seekers are not the saints the left portrays them as. A people smuggler living here was recently outed, and coincidentally lived just down the road from me. In my old small hometown a reasonably large number of Sudanese refugees were settled, the government finding it easy (and cheap) to dump them on small country towns.

As for this individual politician. He is the leader of the ultra-orthodox party and unfortunately for Netanyahu would have single handedly decided what position he wanted in any government. This is the biggest problem with minority governments, the larger centrist parties are forced to the fringes due to the extreme parties holding the balance of power. We're seeing it here in Australia we're the government has taken a hard left turn thanks to the Greens.

Sorry for the slightly off topic and ranty post.


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4103 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
So what will happen to the Interior Minister for making such blatantly racist comments,

Oh, he'll probably become President one day !

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 2):
This is a such a shame

Yes it is.

But it is by on means the first time that Israel has been accused of being raciest, even to is own Arab citizens living within Israel. Even to this day there are many who hold the belief, that Arabs, have no place in Israeli society.

This article from long ago, highlights the increases of racism reported to the association for Civil Rights in Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/civil-ri...hed-new-heights-of-racism-1.234831

So, I suppose it should not seem all that shocking, to see Israel doing this sort of thing to the South Sudanese refugees, Indeed, who will be next to be banished !  



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8034 posts, RR: 54
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3980 times:

Totally in step with everything Israel stands for - race, and therefore racism, is the whole basis for it's foundation. Palestinians who have lived on the land for two thousand years in a country called Palestine have zero rights; what chance does someone from SOUTH SUDAN have?!


fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineeaa3 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 993 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3920 times:

Israel isn't a state built on the ideals of people being equal. Why would we expect it to treat people equally or perceive them as equal.

I think that this issue is the core issue for Israel. It's a state built on discrimination which is not a democratic ideal. Israel fundamentally needs to rethink how it works because legitimate democratic countries don't discriminate and they protect minorities.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3913 times:
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Quoting eaa3 (Reply 5):
Why would we expect it to treat people equally or perceive them as equal.

Because that's basic human decency.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineavi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 939 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3868 times:

About 2 weeks ago a thread was opened here with the title "You Know What We Haven't Had In A While?" and it is still in the first page.
My initial thought was "bashing Israel thread". I didn't say anything because I didn't want to start one and now I don't have to.

Quoting RussianJet (Thread starter):
Far from all Jews are white.

… and that includes the Interior Minister himself and since he doesn't see himself "white", there is no way he said that.

He actually feels persecuted by the "white" people in Israel and no matter how bad he is (and he is) or how racist he is (and he is) there is no way he will use these words (and I don't care what the blog says). It is not him.

If "Israel for the white man", in his view he doesn't have a place here.

He did say (many times) this (illegal) immigration risks the "Jewish state". Personally I think this is BS but not only we have every right to stop this illegal immigration, we have the obligation to do so as every other country in the world has and does.

But, have fun, enjoy yourself.



Long live the B747
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3841 times:
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Quoting avi (Reply 7):

But, have fun, enjoy yourself.
Quoting avi (Reply 7):
"bashing Israel thread"

There's no need for that. If you feel that, as you put it, there is no way he could have said that, then please explain why it is being widely reported in the media that he did. If it's wrong then please explain why. This is not about bashing Israel, it is about exploring why, if true as reported, a government minister should say such a thing. You'll certainly get no argument from me on the need to control illegal immigration, it's just that comments about skin colour like that are to say the least very distasteful, and would do nothing for the government's international credibility.

I posted recently about pathetic sentencing for criminals in my own country, the UK. I don't view that as a 'UK bashing thread' but rather a discussion about deficient sentencing in our legal system. So, can we discuss the comments and what is right or wrong about the reports on this matter in the media rather than leaping to the default 'Israel bashing' defensive position?



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15692 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3841 times:

Quoting avi (Reply 7):
He did say (many times) this (illegal) immigration risks the "Jewish state".

No kidding. Just look at what illegal immigration did to the Arabs that lived there before 1948.

Of course, we have to overlook the hypocrisy of someone whose message is essentially that it's not okay to discriminate against someone for not being white but it is okay to discriminate against someone for not being Jewish.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16239 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3841 times:

The minister's comments are unfortunate and of course do not reflect the views of the democratically elected government of Israel.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 4):
Totally in step with everything Israel stands for - race, and therefore racism, is the whole basis for it's foundation. Palestinians who have lived on the land for two thousand years in a country called Palestine have zero rights;

Israel's foundation is based on religion, not race. There are white (ashkenazi) Israeli's, Mediterranean (sephardic) Israeli's and many others. Israel is actually a very multicultural nation by race, and also by religion (albeit with a Jewish majority).

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 5):
Israel isn't a state built on the ideals of people being equal. Why would we expect it to treat people equally or perceive them as equal.

Israel's human rights records remains leaps better than ANY OTHER nation in the Middle East. Suggest any criticism of Israel be tempered in this reality.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineavi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 939 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3814 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 8):
If you feel that, as you put it, there is no way he could have said that, then please explain why it is being widely reported in the media that he did.

Take a guess (here is a hint: bashing Israel is not only a A.NET thing).

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 8):
If it's wrong then please explain why.

I already did it.



Long live the B747
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3807 times:
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Quoting avi (Reply 11):
I already did it.

So you said he is not white himself, and then basically just said he didn't say it. Are there any actual sources to back that up, or other supporting information?

Quoting avi (Reply 11):
Take a guess (here is a hint: bashing Israel is not only a A.NET thing).

So the media is not always right, fine. That's a given, but there are multiple sources out there and they are pretty specific about what was said. At the very least that lends weight to there being at least a grain of truth to it. So again, if there is supporting info to lend weight to the rejection of these reports then please share.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineavi From Israel, joined Sep 2001, 939 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3781 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 12):
So you said he is not white himself, and then basically just said he didn't say it. Are there any actual sources to back that up, or other supporting information?

What do you want? A picture of him? How can you proof something wasn't said if it wasn't said?

Don't get me wrong. This guy is a disaster. Read my first post again, I did say he is a racist. Almost everything he does creates controversy.
Only last week a special report found him "guilty" and holding "special responsibility" for a fire disaster ended with 44 dead. Do you think he will go anywhere? He won't (because the PM wants to be one after the next election too).
To see him going to hell will be something that I, and many many many Israelis, will be very happy about (but don't hold your breath) but I do say I don't believe for a second he said what you put in the title (and just wait few hours to see where it is going) and I explained why (the fact that one said that in a blog and it spreads like a fire – easy thing when it comes to Israel, means nothing).



Long live the B747
User currently offlineeaa3 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 993 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3760 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
Israel's human rights records remains leaps better than ANY OTHER nation in the Middle East. Suggest any criticism of Israel be tempered in this reality.

I don't see what your point is. Most ME nations are not democracies and have terrible human rights records, with a few exceptions like Turkey. But Israel would classify itself as a western democracy and as such doesn't compare itself to the ME countries. If you want to be a western democracy then the standards are very high and Israel doesn't meet them.


User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6201 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3762 times:

I visited Israel last year and I am not one bit surprised by the comment made by this man. I am a dark skin individual and I was a bit surprised by the treatment I received in some places, I recall a situation were the girl downright ignored me and would not tkae my order. I have visited many countries around the world and I must say my encounter with many Israelis left a bitter taste in my mouth. Israel is a beautiful country but I have no desire to go back again.

Regards,

Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7687 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3722 times:
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Quoting avi (Reply 13):

What do you want? A picture of him? How can you proof something wasn't said if it wasn't said?

I believe you about his colour, it's just that you asserted that he did not say what the reporters say he said, so I was just wondering what the basis for such an assertion was other than the leap of logic related to his own skin.

Quoting avi (Reply 13):
I did say he is a racist

Duly noted.   



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8373 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3701 times:

The Afrikaaners also had their dream down in South Africa. Didn't last forever, though.

User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16239 posts, RR: 56
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3645 times:

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 14):
If you want to be a western democracy then the standards are very high and Israel doesn't meet them.

Israel is a democracy with rule of law and an independent judiciary just like any Western nation. All citizens can vote. Indeed, the only Arabs in the Middle East can have been able to vote consistently in national elections are Israeli Arabs. How ironic. Israel is absolutely a bastion of Western democracy, culture and human rights in the very undemocratic Middle East.

The sheer irony here is that Israel is the ONLY country in the Middle East that people elsewhere even want to immigrate to. That speaks volumes about what a wonderful society Israel is. I don't see ANYONE wanting to emigrate to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Iraq, Morocco, etc etc etc etc

Quoting chepos (Reply 15):
I visited Israel last year and I am not one bit surprised by the comment made by this man. I am a dark skin individual and I was a bit surprised by the treatment I received in some places

I know some blue-eyed blond Canadian Jews who received the same treatment as you....so perhaps, your treatment was not based on race but just being served by angry people? Not every human experience you receive is based on your race....hence be careful crying racism.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2427 posts, RR: 23
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3614 times:
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Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
Israel's foundation is based on religion, not race. There are white (ashkenazi) Israeli's, Mediterranean (sephardic) Israeli's and many others. Israel is actually a very multicultural nation by race, and also by religion (albeit with a Jewish majority).

     

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
Israel's human rights records remains leaps better than ANY OTHER nation in the Middle East. Suggest any criticism of Israel be tempered in this reality.

     

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 14):
standards are very high and Israel doesn't meet them.


Well that's because you hold Israel to a different standard than anyone else. Big surprise.  
Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
srael is a democracy with rule of law and an independent judiciary just like any Western nation. All citizens can vote. Indeed, the only Arabs in the Middle East can have been able to vote consistently in national elections are Israeli Arabs. How ironic. Israel is absolutely a bastion of Western democracy, culture and human rights in the very undemocratic Middle East.

Thankyou.

The sheer irony here is that Israel is the ONLY country in the Middle East that people elsewhere even want to immigrate to. That speaks volumes about what a wonderful society Israel is. I don't see ANYONE wanting to emigrate to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Iraq, Morocco, etc etc etc etc
Quoting avi (Reply 7):
My initial thought was "bashing Israel thread".

Yes and you can count on the same ones with nauseauting regularity. As soon as one thread dies off one of them will start another. Same haters, different day.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineeaa3 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 993 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3583 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
Israel is a democracy with rule of law and an independent judiciary just like any Western nation. All citizens can vote. Indeed, the only Arabs in the Middle East can have been able to vote consistently in national elections are Israeli Arabs. How ironic. Israel is absolutely a bastion of Western democracy, culture and human rights in the very undemocratic Middle East.

The sheer irony here is that Israel is the ONLY country in the Middle East that people elsewhere even want to immigrate to. That speaks volumes about what a wonderful society Israel is. I don't see ANYONE wanting to emigrate to Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Iraq, Morocco, etc etc etc etc

It's weird that you think that I am somehow saying good things about other countries in the Middle East. I'm not. I'm saying that Israel doesn't meet the standards of western democracies. The US doesn't discriminate based on race or any other factor. Israel does in no way meet US standards for human rights.

Anyone who doesn't see that Arab Israelis are treated like second class citizens just isn't paying attention.


The fact that people don't want to emigrate to other Middle Eastern countries is true. I just don't see your point. I'm not saying that the other countries of the ME are any better. They are by and large much worse. Also the point of Israel is for people to emigrate there, which in itself is a form of discrimination because the policies discriminate between Jews and others.

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 19):
Well that's because you hold Israel to a different standard than anyone else. Big surprise.

Israel is certainly held up to higher standards than other countries in the Middle East, but that's because they themselves want that. And Israel does not live up to western democratic standards on many fronts. But I don't hold Israel to a higher standard than the US or Europe. Western liberal democracies don't discriminate based upon race, religion, sex and so forth. Israel just doesn't meet that standard.

Read the book "The Crisis of Zionism" by Peter Beinart, who is btw. a zionist himself or listen to the NPR Fresh Air interview with him.


User currently offlinechepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6201 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3478 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 18):
I know some blue-eyed blond Canadian Jews who received the same treatment as you....so perhaps, your treatment was not based on race but just being served by angry people? Not every human experience you receive is based on your race....hence be careful crying racism.

I know racism when I see it, enough said. I saw how I was treated, since you were not there with me you really have no room to judge the behavior I experienced. Israel- been there done that, no plans or desire to go back.



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

Quoting avi (Reply 7):
I didn't say anything because I didn't want to start one and now I don't have to.

Well I guess, if you wait long enough, one will be started, which is exactly what happened.

Quoting avi (Reply 7):
He actually feels persecuted by the "white" people in Israel and no matter how bad he is (and he is) or how racist he is (and he is) there is no way he will use these words (and I don't care what the blog says). It is not him.

WTF... Then why hasn't the Israeli Government, or he himself, come out and categorically denied that he said this ?

Its been very widely reported as far as I can tell. It was in 3 papers that I've seen over the last few days.   


Quoting RussianJet (Reply 8):
If it's wrong then please explain why.

I'd like to know that too ?

Quoting avi (Reply 13):
What do you want? A picture of him? How can you proof something wasn't said if it wasn't said?

For you to stop the overreaction.

What we would like, is for you to provide evidence of a published denial, either in print or video form, because, make no mistake there would be one denial and a loud one, because if any countries Interior Minister was accused of saying this, then you'd hear then screaming form the church steeples, that they didn't say such things.

I did a detailed search on the net, for any such denial or apology, but what do we have in this case....... nothing but silence ?

This article, from Harratz, appears to suggest that there might be a hidden agenda behind Minister Eli Yisai moves to expel the Sudanese, will have to wait and see. Something about jobs....

moves.?http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/eli-yishai-s-hidden-agenda-sudanese-out-chinese-in.premium-1.436917

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
and of course do not reflect the views of the democratically elected government of Israel.

Are we sure about that ???

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 10):
Israel's human rights records remains leaps better than ANY OTHER nation in the Middle East. Suggest any criticism of Israel be tempered in this reality.

If as you claim it dose, then it must be coming from a very low base line measure. Read link below from a report done this year !!  Wow!http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=41901&Cr=Palestin&Cr1=

Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 19):
Yes and you can count on the same ones with nauseauting regularity. As soon as one thread dies off one of them will start another

Just like all the endless threads on American politics and how divisive it is amongst you all, and the like, or is that different I suppose ?



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3433 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 3):
So, I suppose it should not seem all that shocking, to see Israel doing this sort of thing to the South Sudanese refugees
Quoting cedarjet (Reply 4):
what chance does someone from SOUTH SUDAN have?!

  

Since when do the refugees have the right to entry? Israel is a sovereign nation, and they have the right to turn away foreign nationals as they see fit.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2716 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3418 times:

Quoting TheCol (Reply 23):
Since when do the refugees have the right to entry? Israel is a sovereign nation, and they have the right to turn away foreign nationals as they see fit.



I may be completely mistaken, but I think (refugees, whether they are from Sudan or anywhere) are protected to some degree, under the international convention relating to Refuges ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convent...Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees

And don't forget, they were originally granted permission to stay, they weren't denied entry !

Quoting TheCol (Reply 23):
Israel is a sovereign nation,

Absolutely, like all countries.

But there are also international agreements and obligations, which I'm sure Israel is signatory to, and as such a progressive nation (as stated in this very thread by many here) would adhere too, No ?

One thing I will say, is that Israel at least sent them back to Sudan with some $$$, which, although modest, wont solve there problems, however it will make life a littler easier in the short term.  

[Edited 2012-06-24 23:32:55]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
25 TheCol : If you aren't already familiar with the process, of which you probably are, if the host country investigates and determines that the refugee claims a
26 Post contains images TheCommodore : As I said TheCol, I may be mistaken. Your point is noted. However, let us not get caught up in the Minutia of it all. The fact remains as to why he s
27 RussianJet : Haters?? Get a grip of yourself there. I have started this thread because of a specific event that has been reported in the press. It is a thread abo
28 eaa3 : In the case of Israel that is an ironic statement. All Jewish refugees have the right to entry and citizenship.
29 Post contains links TheCommodore : Not according to this guy....Israel can claim first place in the racism game. http://www.haaretz.com/news/national...te-in-the-developed-world-1.4439
30 Post contains links EL-AL : Israel is the only country in the world that encouraged immigration of African people and gave them citizenship immediately: http://www.youtube.com/wa
31 zrs70 : A country called Palestine? Who was it's king/ president/ prime minister/ chief?
32 daviation : Yes, I was going to respond to some of the comments here, but then I thought, why bother? Certain posters have their agenda and they parse informatio
33 daviation : Commodore, you're at it again - using Haaretz as your primary source of information about Israel. Do you know that Haaretz is probably the least read
34 TheCommodore : Not at all. I use it as one of many different sources, as do many other posters on here a.net. As it so happened, it was a complete coincidence that
35 daviation : Well, you got me! OK, let Israel give back all of the West Bank, end the blockage of Gaza (except for medical and food supplies, which is already unbl
36 SFBdude : Considering what the Israelis use against the Palestinians, I'd say they are the ones who need the bomb shelters. Not that it would make a difference
37 ImperialEagle : Seriously? THREE HUNDRED rockets fired into Israel already this year. Do you think hamas cares if they land in a schoolyard or a hospital? Get real.
38 daviation : You mean random rockets aimed at civilians? Like in places such as S'derot? You've obviously never been to Israel. I've heard all about the discrimin
39 Post contains links signol : I recently read a book on the Palestinian situation, very enlightening. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fast-Times-in-Palestine-ebook/dp/B00513NHNI Well worth
40 SFBdude : If your able to find some stats on casualties and damage done from both sides, I think it'll speak for itself. You can bold, italicize, underline, ca
41 SmittyOne : King George VI.
42 777way : What about the non-white Jews then,? especially the Ethiopians.
43 YOWza : What drivel. There are immigrants and emigrants in EVERY country in the middle east. My middle name isn't Magellan but I'm pretty confident that Moro
44 cedarjet : That's an awful thing to say. 1. Are you telling us a million Palestinians have been forced off their land at gunpoint and made refugees and stateles
45 Darksnowynight : Morocco is very often considered to be in the Middle East for political purposes, as is most of North Africa. However, yes, I would also doubt that t
46 zrs70 : I can attest to this. As a rabbi who officiates at many conversions each year, I stand with my colleagues in saying that those who convert stood at S
47 ImperialEagle : If you are referring to when the King of Jordan massacred them by the thousands and then ran them out of Jordan back in 1970 I don't know if that num
48 cedarjet : Of course King Hussein expelled them, they weren't Jordanian and they were having a destabilising influence on his country. They were Palestinian and
49 EDKA : Why are you keep saying this? There was NEVER a country called Palestine, the term refers to a piece of land which is now Israel/West Bank/Gaza... Co
50 SmittyOne : Sure, there was no organized 'state' called Palestine, but there were people who called Palestine "home" under British mandate...until the United Nat
51 JJJ : So? There never was a country called Jordan before.
52 ImperialEagle : Well, at the same time the British offered Israel an arrid piece of desert they offered the Palestinians a relativly fertile and much larger tract of
53 SmittyOne : I don't disagree with what you say - but IMO legitimizing religious belief as a basis for holding a political position on anything substantial is the
54 zrs70 : Before Modern Israel, the land was (for the most part) No man's land. It was an arid piece of desert. Also keep in mind that at the very same time, Je
55 SmittyOne : I don't agree with persecuting anyone, but since the beginning of recorded history the Hebrews have demonstrated difficulty in playing nicely with ot
56 zrs70 : I think this phrase says more than enough about your perspective. I am saddened and embarrassed to be associated with a forum with such blatant ignor
57 SmittyOne : Disagree with my evaluation of history, but I don't think it is fair to call me ignorant for having this opinion. It is not based on any kind of cate
58 zrs70 : Smitty, When a person begins a phrase with "I'm not an anti-Semite, but...." (as you did here) ... it speaks volumes. As to your analysis in your post
59 BMI727 : What do you mean "unbelievably?" What would you do if your landlord decided to give half of your home to a homeless family? But you get the half with
60 SmittyOne : Actually, you left out the most important part of that quote. I'm not SPECIFCALLY anti-Semite. I'm "Anti nexus between religion and politics". We hap
61 SmittyOne : Actually I do, but I wanted to make it clear that I don't have any more of a problem with people who practice the Jewish faith than I do with any ind
62 BMI727 : That isn't really the case though. Only really right wing Jews are vigorous Zionists, the ones who become settlers. Most Jewish people seem to be mos
63 SmittyOne : What a terrifying prospect.
64 zrs70 : I want to separate the issues of Modern Israel and the history of Judaism. Modern Israel: There are many emotions on both sides, and there have been m
65 SmittyOne : Agree, that's not what I was trying to say - keep reading. These quotes were in reference to the violence and God's favoritism toward the Hebrews at
66 SOBHI51 : That's all fine, but how about the real things, like the right of the Arabs to go back to there homes, lands and villages, how about the the rights t
67 SOBHI51 : And who gave the British the right to give, offer, lands to anybody? Only if they are Jews you forgot to mention. 200 years ago or so there was no Un
68 zrs70 : Before I answer, you should answer the same about Jews forced from their homes in Yemen, Syria, Algeria, Iraq, etc. Jews in these countries were forc
69 SOBHI51 : As usual you find a way not to respond directly, but i will answer that. A lot of Jews in those countries selected to go to the promised land, in hop
70 zrs70 : I'll start here (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/jewref.html) Although much is heard about the plight of the Palestinian refugees
71 SOBHI51 : All what you did is prove my point, Jews were living in peace till Israel started kicking Arabs from Palestine, so it was a reaction to the inhuman w
72 eaa3 : The Palestinians certainly didn't force anyone in Yemen, Syria, Algeria, Iraq, etc out of their homes.
73 srbmod : This discussion has run its' course and will be locked due to some of you opting to post in a manner that violates the Forum Rules. This is quite ofte
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