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Male Circumcision - Are You For Or Against It?  
User currently offlineAA7295 From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 620 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11898 times:

I was reading an article today in the newspaper about the decline of circumcision in the United States. It mentioned that Israel and the United States were the two major countries where circumcision is largely performed.

There was this segment that said that some doctors had recommended it, whilst others have not.

What is your stance on the issue?

As an uncircumcised male, I am totally for it. I hate being uncircumcised and am seriously considering having the chop. I find it both aesthetically unattractive not to mention I got Ballanitis and a UTI (both in Thailand!) and the doctor said my chances of getting both would have been reduced had I been circumcised.

309 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11894 times:
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If any adult male consents to have this procedure performed on their own penis that is their right to do so. In rare cases there are valid medical reasons for performing this operation.

Performing this procedure without benefit of anaesthetic on infants who have no say in the matter, whether done on the basis of dubious science, or on grounds of superstition/religion, or 'because I had it done to me, so I want it done to my son' is, in my opinion completely unwarranted and, again, in my opinion, is a form of child abuse.

BTW, I give this thread a maximum of 24 hours before the mods need to close it, because people who have a belief one way or the other on this issue tend to feel very strongly about it, and it is not a subject where you can agree to meet in the middle.

[Edited 2012-06-24 00:10:16]


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineKingairTA From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 458 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11889 times:

What do the women prefer  

I was circumsised as a baby and have hae no complaints. Both my sons were snipped as well.

As for pros ane cons I don't think one will ever outweigh the other.

But I think the ladies prefer a cut over an uncut.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25009 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11884 times:
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It was done to my when I was a week old - and obviously without my consent.

I think that lack of my consent is quite wrong - it's my body, I should decide. I would much rather NOT be circumcised.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAA7295 From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 620 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11882 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
Performing this procedure without benefit of anaesthetic on infants who have no say in the matter, whether done on the basis of dubious science, or on grounds of superstition/religion, or 'because I had it done to me, so I want it done to my son' is, in my opinion completely unwarranted and, again, in my opinion, is a form of child abuse.

I totally respect your view. But that is also like saying that baptizing someone in a particular religion prohibits their choice as an infant. Or sending your child to a particular school (religion-affiliated school, all boys or all girls school) restricts their choices as well.

As a parent, you make choice that you deem the best for your child at that point in time. You are the child's source of life, so you inherently have the right to make choices on their behalf until they reach such an age where they can make decisions effectively.

In my situation I wish my parents had circumcised me as a baby because now, if I do get a circumcision, I have to go to hospital and have surgery and that is at least 3 days out of action (not to mention the other type of action!).

The very fact of saying "wait until the kids are older to decide if they want a circumcision" is a bit silly because no one wants non-essential surgery. But someone may want to be circumcised (I'm not alone in this matter!)

[Edited 2012-06-24 00:17:56]

User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11857 times:
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Quoting AA7295 (Reply 4):
I totally respect your view. But that is also like saying that baptizing someone in a particular religion prohibits their choice as an infant. Or sending your child to a particular school (religion-affiliated school, all boys or all girls school) restricts their choices as well.

Children can grow up and decide that they want to follow a different religion, or no religion at all. They cannot decide to grow back severed body parts. Circumcision is an irreversible physical change to a child's natural body. I have always found the religious arguments for it very odd, if we are made in god's image then presumably the foreskin is part of that image.



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User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11846 times:
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Quoting AA7295 (Reply 4):
The very fact of saying "wait until the kids are older to decide if they want a circumcision" is a bit silly because no one wants non-essential surgery.

OK, you have lost me there, if 'no one wants non-essential surgery' why would they want to do it to someone else?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5643 posts, RR: 32
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11833 times:

Ugh! Circumcision is a dreadful practice and any body mutilation, unless it is life threatening, should be a decision left to adults. As a gay man I've always found uncircumcised penises off-putting -- that foreskin is there for a reason!

User currently offlineAA7295 From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 620 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11831 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 6):

OK, you have lost me there, if 'no one wants non-essential surgery' why would they want to do it to someone else?

I thought I was unclear. The point is the surgery is pretty intense and is ALOT easier when done as a baby. The very fact of waiting until they are an adult to decide if they want to be circumcised is going to cause a lot of people to remain uncircumcised purely for the fact that they don't want surgery. This is despite that SOME people may still want to be circumcised.


User currently offlineBraybuddy From Ireland, joined Aug 2004, 5643 posts, RR: 32
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11808 times:

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 8):
The point is the surgery is pretty intense and is ALOT easier when done as a baby. The very fact of waiting until they are an adult to decide if they want to be circumcised is going to cause a lot of people to remain uncircumcised purely for the fact that they don't want surgery. This is despite that SOME people may still want to be circumcised.

If you're talking about a religious or lifestyle choice here I don't see why anyone should have it foisted upon them when they're too young to decide for themselves. I've known a couple of adults who have been circumcised for medical reasons and, while it was initially sore and uncomfortable for a while, was nothing they couldn't handle. I think that would be par for a lot of surgery, so it should be no big deal.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25009 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11785 times:
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Quoting AA7295 (Reply 4):
The very fact of saying "wait until the kids are older to decide if they want a circumcision" is a bit silly because no one wants non-essential surgery. But someone may want to be circumcised (I'm not alone in this matter!)

Why is it silly? I know adult men who want to be circumcised and that's their choice, they can have it done.

But I don't want to be circumcised and I haven no choice because it;s already been done - without my consent.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1562 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11771 times:
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Quoting AA7295 (Reply 4):
But that is also like saying that baptizing someone in a particular religion prohibits their choice as an infant. Or sending your child to a particular school (religion-affiliated school, all boys or all girls school) restricts their choices as well.

Thats because it does and is also wrong, children are already good at having made up friends they don't need extra put on them by adults.

Fred


User currently offlineba6590 From UK - England, joined Jul 2007, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11757 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
Performing this procedure without benefit of anaesthetic on infants who have no say in the matter, whether done on the basis of dubious science, or on grounds of superstition/religion, or 'because I had it done to me, so I want it done to my son' is, in my opinion completely unwarranted and, again, in my opinion, is a form of child abuse.

Completely agree   

Interestingly enough, heard this on the BBC the other day:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-18549968

There maybe benifits after all, Still wouln't want to have it done as a child without my consent though.



"Never forget, the higher we soar, the smaller we appear to those who cannot fly" - Nietzsche -
User currently offlineTSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 3066 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11697 times:

I'm against it, for the same reason as Kiwiandrew:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
Performing this procedure without benefit of anaesthetic on infants who have no say in the matter, whether done on the basis of dubious science, or on grounds of superstition/religion, or 'because I had it done to me, so I want it done to my son' is, in my opinion completely unwarranted and, again, in my opinion, is a form of child abuse.



Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10654 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 11626 times:

I dont see a sense in it. And I think its mutilation to do it to infants.

User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 930 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11549 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
I have always found the religious arguments for it very odd, if we are made in god's image then presumably the foreskin is part of that image.

Indeed. As an atheist I find many aspects of religion puzzling, but this one it, to me, one of the strangest.

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 8):


Quoting kiwiandrew,reply=6:


OK, you have lost me there, if 'no one wants non-essential surgery' why would they want to do it to someone else?

I thought I was unclear. The point is the surgery is pretty intense and is ALOT easier when done as a baby. The very fact of waiting until they are an adult to decide if they want to be circumcised is going to cause a lot of people to remain uncircumcised purely for the fact that they don't want surgery. This is despite that SOME people may still want to be circumcised.

I don't really care if it is easier as a baby than an adult, it is a tolerable procedure even for adults and so I see no reason to carry it out on anyone too young to consent to it. Much like tattoos and piercings, male circumcision is an aesthetic choice, even for religious reasons. Unlike most piercings it is also irreversible (well you can over the course of months stretch the skin back to full length but it is still physiologically different to an uncircumcised foreskin as far as I am aware). I am perfectly fine with people deciding that they wish their genitals to look a certain way and opting to have surgery to make it so, be it for pure aesthetics or as a ritual to confirm their religious devotion.

I do not agree with people having an unecessary procedure done to them before an age at which they can consent, for religions or other reasons. We have enough people, male and female, who feel uncomfortable with their own bodies without artificially adding to the number who were circumcised babies and don't want to be, thus who may have an artificial reason to resent their bodies (or even their parents a little).

Quoting Braybuddy (Reply 7):
Ugh! Circumcision is a dreadful practice and any body mutilation, unless it is life threatening, should be a decision left to adults. As a gay man I've always found uncircumcised penises off-putting -- that foreskin is there for a reason!

Indeed there are reasons why foreskins are a disadvantage, some STIs for example, so explaining this in sex education classes to teenagers and allowing them to choose for themselves with the best medical information, and their own religious/aesthetic opinions would surely be a better way to operate IMO.

I do not know the evolutionary reason for foreskins existence, they may well be a throwback that now serve little/no purpose to homo sapiens whilst increasing the risk of some specific diseases and conditions, but I don't see any drive for babies to have their tonsils removed.


User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11510 times:

Quoting GST (Reply 15):
but I don't see any drive for babies to have their tonsils removed.

Nor the appendix...and that damned thing will kill you if you're not careful.


User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39706 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11496 times:

Stop circumcision!
It is a brutal, barbaric practice and should NOT be allowed for infants that have no say in the matter.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11469 times:
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If it's for valid, essential medical reasons then fine - do the necessary. If not, then do not unnecessarily chop bits of someone's body off. If people want it done that badly for other reasons when they're old enough to decide then hey, they can choose to do it then.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11533 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 11422 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
I have always found the religious arguments for it very odd, if we are made in god's image then presumably the foreskin is part of that image.

That is something I have never understood either. I was circumsised when I was newborn. I had no say in the decision about altering my body. Because my parents decided it was the Christian thing to do, to alter God's image, they decided. That was the only reason for that medical procedure.

In short: I am against it.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3001 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11400 times:

I am thankful that I was not circumcised, even though when I was born the doctor insisted on it. I'm glad my parents are not so religious to have their beliefs thrust onto me (heck, I was baptized when I was 12 years old and it was my decision).


Quoting AA7295 (Reply 4):
But that is also like saying that baptizing someone in a particular religion prohibits their choice as an infant. Or sending your child to a particular school (religion-affiliated school, all boys or all girls school) restricts their choices as well.

I believe the person should be free to decide. I was sent to a Catholic school. By 9th grade I had considered going to a public school (or a non-religious school). The first 8 years of grade education were the worst. Had I been allowed later on to select the school I wanted to go to, perhaps grade school might have been more enjoyable.

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 4):
As a parent, you make choice that you deem the best for your child at that point in time. You are the child's source of life, so you inherently have the right to make choices on their behalf until they reach such an age where they can make decisions effectively.

Ah, but here's the problem. You can choose a religion for your kid, you can choose a school for your kid. In the future, the child can change without a problem. Once you're circumcised, there's no going back.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1599 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11387 times:

Quoting KingairTA (Reply 2):
But I think the ladies prefer a cut over an uncut.

Mostly in the US and thats because it has been done for so long, that most women in the US haven't seen an uncut penis in their lives.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19415 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11377 times:

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
Performing this procedure without benefit of anaesthetic on infants who have no say in the matter, whether done on the basis of dubious science, or on grounds of superstition/religion, or 'because I had it done to me, so I want it done to my son' is, in my opinion completely unwarranted and, again, in my opinion, is a form of child abuse.

  

There is no other surgical procedure performed on infants in which a perfectly healthy and normal body part is removed. Why this one procedure gets the exception is beyond me.

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 4):
In my situation I wish my parents had circumcised me as a baby because now, if I do get a circumcision, I have to go to hospital and have surgery and that is at least 3 days out of action (not to mention the other type of action!).

No, it can be done much easier than that, using the African method. It takes about an hour and the pain isn't too bad.

As far as the thing about HIV transmission, there is another important number to be calculated in any study: the Number Needed to Treat (NNT). For example, suppose that 95% of ear infections are viral. Then I'd have to prescribe 20 kids with ear infections antibiotics to make one kid better for an NNT of 20. Not so impressive, huh?

For circumcision, the NNT for HIV prevention in Sub-Saharan Africa is *60.* (in the U.S., with a lower prevalence of HIV, it's probably at least in the thousands). For the prevention of UTI in infants it's a few hundred. For the prevention of penile cancer, it's probably in the hundreds of thousands to millions.

Suddenly, the medical evidence for circumcision becomes a lot less impressive. But the (religious Jewish) authors of the Africa circumcision studies don't want you to know that, so they didn't include NNT in the study.


User currently onlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11322 times:
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Quoting DocLightning (Reply 22):
As far as the thing about HIV transmission,

Another problem is that due to the exaggerated 'benefits' of circumcision with regard to a reduction of STI incidence it draws attention away from a much simpler and less drastic method of reducing infection.... using condoms. I have met guys who seriously believe that because they are 'cut' that they can screw around to their heart's content continuing to practice unsafe sex.



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User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3875 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11303 times:

For those commenting on how the religious significance baffles them, why it's altering "Gods image" etc, it's actually commanded of the Jews by God.

Genisis 17:

Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant. ”


25 luv2fly : Had I been asked I would have said NO.....
26 Ken777 : I seem to be reading some years back that not having the procedure done slightly increase the risk of penile cancer, and their partners have a slightl
27 kngkyle : I'm circumsized but I would not have chose it, and would not do it to my kids.
28 Silver1SWA : Perhaps I'm incredibly naive here, but those of you who were circumcised as a baby and strongly wish they weren't, why? I was circumcised when I was a
29 September11 : This is somewhat interesting. I've received every indication that circumsion or no circumsion is perfectly fine. I feel circumsion is old school so I'
30 Longhornmaniac : I'm glad I was. I find it much more aesthetically pleasing and less effort to care after (based on conversations with my uncircumcised friends). My co
31 GST : If you're that on the fence about it I can't help but be of the opinion that this option is just plain irrational. If you are unsure either way I inf
32 GST : If such studies exist (anyone on here have access to scientific journal libraries to tell us maybe?), I wonder if this viewpoint would be relatively
33 mariner : Circumcision isn't my natural state. My body was changed - for no valid medical reason - without my consent. My mother had it done because she didn't
34 Max Q : Well I'm glad I had it done. Just for the hygienic aspect alone it was worth it and i'm glad my Parents made this decision, I certainly would not have
35 einsteinboricua : A woman is not marrying a penis. I don't understand why a woman would have a preference for one over the other. I will not change who I am to please
36 kl838 : I am not circumcised, and I don't agree with it, because when you look at the reasoning its mostly because of hygiene or religious reasons. As for hyg
37 Max Q : You are right that certainly should not be a reason for a relationship to work or not. Just wondered whether Women have a preference.
38 prebennorholm : Reading this word by word in 2012 is like having the devil read the Bible. When translated into modern language, then it should be something like thi
39 Aesma : I'm against it. The thing is that if that had been the case, you could be part of the crowd wishing you hadn't been circumcised as a child ! At least
40 Longhornmaniac : Interesting you bring this up because from my vantage point, I'm surprised how many men are uncircumcised in porn. In my *cough* experiences *cough c
41 type-rated : I have heard that one reason circumcision got so popular in the US in the 50's and onwards was it was a quick buck for the doctor who was doing it. I
42 Post contains images GST : Well of course, but you can say the same about female "circumcision", in this case there is absolutely no room for argument, that is a horrific mutil
43 bookishaviator : Precisely. Personally, I wouldn't want to go anywhere near any unwashed penis, circumcised or not.
44 moo : That wasnt the intention, it was to show those questioning the religious aspect that it did infact appear in the Bible as a requirement from God.
45 racko : A point that hasn't been brought up, but I feel that should be important: sexual pleasure. Knowing only my uncircumcised position, I think that that's
46 GQfluffy : Since this is the overwhelming opinion on here, it's obvious you people have issues with your parents for whatever reason and WAY too much time on yo
47 SmittyOne : Exactly, and this is the root of a lot of other health related 'religious requirements' created during the age of superstition. Some poor fellow eats
48 flipdewaf : Eh? How did you get to that conclusion, I wouldn't want to have my parents deciding to cut bits of my body off for no apparent reason so that means I
49 einsteinboricua : It's not something that should be blown up, but then again, why should a parent decide how my body will look like? Why should a baby be circumcised a
50 Post contains links TSS : It's there to protect the most sensitive parts and prevent desensitization due to constant stimulus from outside sources such as bedding and clothing
51 moo : You wouldn't accept it if your parents decided you looked better without one ear, would you... Circumcision is a life long, unalterable, unreversable
52 Acheron : I agree. I have to question the hygiene habits of those for whom spending extra time on their genitals seem to be such an inconvenience that having t
53 Braybuddy : The HIV argument in circumcising children doesn't make any sense, given that sexual activity isn't a thing associated with children. I haven't heard o
54 zckls04 : Against it, won't be having it done to my children. I think a large part of this is the male ego- for most men suggesting that there might be somethin
55 lewis : I am not strongly against it but I just don't see a point to it. It sounds the same as cutting the tail or chopping off the ears of a dog, for aesthet
56 sbworcs : So then how can my father be an uncircumcised Minister?
57 Post contains images Superfly : Boy did you set yourself up for THAT one!
58 DocLightning : As a gay man, I didn't realize what I was missing out on until I messed around with my first uncircumcised guy. I'm not going into details, but I env
59 moo : If hes not Jewish, then hes ministering under the new covenant of Jesus Christ - the old covenants no longer apply but many christians feel that circ
60 Post contains images kiwiandrew : ... and as an uncut gay man I wondered what the hell I was doing wrong when I encountered my first cut guy , it wasn't until I had more experience th
61 DocLightning : It wasn't even hygeine, per se. It was the indellible mark of a Hebrew man. Once circmcised, you were forever circumcised. It was often done to priso
62 slider : I'm circumcised and can't imagine not being, but never really gave a thought to it. Biggest non-issue on the planet, actually, IMHO.
63 Post contains images GQfluffy : Because that's such a logical comparison. Nice try. People that have such a huge issue when it comes to this don't have enough to do. End of story. N
64 DocLightning : An uninformed opinion based not in fact. I have no issues with my parents related to my circumcision, sir.
65 Post contains links WrenchBender : RootsAir, Is that you ? Are You Cut Or Uncut? (by RootsAir Dec 10 2006 in Non Aviation) The Official Circumcision Thread (by LH423 Nov 5 2007 in Non
66 lewis : For people growing up in places where chopping off part of the penis is not the norm, it does sound as stupid and as weird as chopping off your ear.
67 zckls04 : In general I find opinions stated as fact (or even worse, ": FACT") the least convincing ones. This is no exception.
68 tugger : Now here's the part I don't understand. The foreskin gives at least some amount of "extra" expansion room, so an uncircumcised person should theoretic
69 einsteinboricua : Well, apparently you also don't seem to have enough to do or otherwise you'd contribute your opinion to this thread instead of criticizing us for dis
70 DocLightning : No it's not stretched tight. The foreskin retracts, but there's plenty of "play" in it.
71 Post contains links and images mariner : Huh? There are a whole lot of thing about which I have strong opinions, but I don't spend my day agonising about them. I don't spend my day agonising
72 YVRLTN : I had opportunity to look into this recently. Here is an explanation of the religious perspective of circumcision today as it applies to Christian as
73 AA7295 : Okay.... Totally didn't mean to bring religion into because it's 2012 and I really don't think (well I hope) that people don't make such decisions usi
74 Post contains images WrenchBender : If we were all cut how would we perform 'Puppetry of the Penis'. Google it if you never heard of it...... WrenchBender
75 beowulf : Unless you have phimosis I don't see why soap and water couldn't have prevented at least the balanitis. As for the pro or con of circumcision, I thin
76 SmittyOne : Thank you for It strikes me that Maimonides was kind of a douche, operating under the cover of religious orthodoxy.
77 moo : It is - its an arbitrary removal of a body part through a decision by your parents. Does changing the body part in question have any effect on the to
78 jamincan : I have often thought it would be cool to have a tattoo, but am too squeamish around needles to go out and get one. My parents could have saved me the
79 babybus : At least with religion you can come out of it but you can't stick your snipped foreskin back on. I'm against it. You should accept what God gave you.
80 SmittyOne : Sure, but it's more righteous if you 'choose' to do it for him. Or should I say fore him.
81 Post contains links Rabenschlag : As of today, a German court ruled that circumcising children for religious reasons represents a criminal offense (bodily harm). The judges said that t
82 moo : Excellent.
83 zrs70 : Historically, circumcision was a sign that said, "We (as a people) don't engage in human sacrifice." But that history is not so meaningful today. I am
84 na : Very good. Prevents that this practice is being introduced through the backdoor of foreign culture.
85 daviation : Obviously this issue is never going to be decided one way or the other. I'm just going to say that I was circumcised at birth and so was my son. I obv
86 tugger : This is really the only thing it is all about. Dad wants (or demands) his son to be like him. Period. That's it. Tugg
87 Post contains images bgm : You celebrate genital mutilation?
88 zckls04 : I agree that was wrong; it's too widespread to be outlawed right now IMO. It is becoming less fashionable which is a good thing, and I expect that tr
89 DocLightning : I agree. If female circumcision is wrong, then it logically follows that male circumcision is wrong. Just because it doesn't "do as much damage" does
90 daviation : Well, obviously I don't agree with your assessment. But you're entitled to your opinion. If your wife has ever had a miscarriage at, say, six weeks,
91 Post contains images kiwiandrew : I suspect you may be right. Perhaps there is some sort of reverse Oedipal thing going on where the father thinks, "well, I don't want my son to be ab
92 daviation : That is certainly one of the most bizarre thesis I've read. I don't think my parents denied me any pleasures. And I can't imagine that anyone would t
93 tugger : But then why on earth would you even consider doing it? Look I am not attacking you or anything, it's just that unless you did it for religious reaso
94 kiwiandrew : I suggest you read the entire thread, there is plenty of evidence to suggest that in general cut penises have far less sensitivity than uncut. Ask an
95 tugger : But they did, even if they did not mean to at all and it wasn't even in their minds. I don't get why some here can't accept that something that remai
96 DocLightning : Let's leave that aside for a moment. Sexual pleasure is appreciated in the brain, not in the penis. Anyone who who owns a working penis knows that th
97 lewis : I am curious, since you are a doctor, how is circumcision presented at medical school. Is it taught as something that should be pushed to the patient
98 DocLightning : The American Academy of Pediatrics formal position on circumcision:
99 Post contains images zckls04 : Probably. But being emotionally invested in a subject isn't the best foundation for sensible policy, so that's a moot point. In any case I have been
100 lewis : If they feel so strongly about it that they would reject a partner because of it, the word 'shallow' comes to mind. I doubt it though, at the end of
101 daviation : OK guys, you got me! I wish I still had a foreskin. My parents (well, one is deceased) should be shot. I'm sorry I ever had my son circumcized. I don'
102 DocLightning : (partially) OT: In Judaism, an infant isn't truly a "whole person" until 8 days of age at which time... a male infant is circumcised. Judaism has a l
103 signol : I had the cut when I was 5 years old, for medical reasons. The car journey to the hospital that day is one of my earliest memories. Now I have a son,
104 prebennorholm : No, I don't think that Germany forgot anything. That fact that some people violates the law doesn't mean that the law is wrong. After all, stealing h
105 TSS : Since you brought it up, what specifically were the reasons you mention?
106 DocLightning : Yeah they did. If people are determined to do it, they are going to get it done, even if it's done without proper regulation and oversight. It's like
107 Post contains links kent350787 : Circumcision is legal in Australia, although the medical position is similar to AAP. Although Australia is the only country in the world which routin
108 signol : Repeated infections. signol
109 Post contains images Superfly : Kudos to Germany for this!
110 AF1624 : I'm moving to Germany!
111 Post contains links Rabenschlag : Update on the situation in Germany in English: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/27/wo...st-circumcising-boys.html?_r=1&hpw
112 SmittyOne : Agreed. Removing the foreskin based on misplaced medical concern is bad enough, but to me doing it for religious reasons is completely unacceptable c
113 flipdewaf : I wonder if the bogey man came to me in a dream and told me to cut off my sons little finger that would be ok? Fred
114 SmittyOne : I don't know for sure...but here in the US at least, your "faith" in that bogey man would be viewed as a de facto positive personal quality, as long
115 Post contains images DocLightning : A.net quote of the day! If and only if you can get at lest ten other people to believe in the same bogey man. If it's just you, then you're nuts. As
116 PanHAM : It is the ruling of an independent judge. There is no law for or against circumcision in Germany, so there doesn't have anything to be enforced. But
117 Post contains links Superfly : As much as I oppose circumcision, I'm glad that my car rides so smooth that a rabbi can perform a circumcision in the backseat of my car while driving
118 flipdewaf : So 9 people believe and I'm nuts but 10 people believe and I can start cutting bits off my kids? Is this 10 person thing an actual rule? Fred
119 DocLightning : You see, that's because Germany is a reasonable and civilized country. I wish the USA was. No, it's me pointing out that as long as it's a group of p
120 GST : Well, depends on how batshit crazy the "religion" in question is*. Look at how everyone takes the piss out of Scientology**, which has more than a fe
121 DocLightning : And yet in this country they have a right to refuse to give their kids medicine unless it's life or limb. They also get away with abduction, torture,
122 MD11Engineer : Been circumcised in my teenage years due to medical reasons (phimosis, circumcision is not common in Germany and AFAIK I´m the only circumcised male
123 MD11Engineer : One more important aspect of this ruling: It places the constitution and the subordinate laws above the rules of religions. Jan
124 PanHAM : That goes without saying and is the basis for every court ruling. Not only the constitution but the law in general is superior and above anything. No
125 Post contains images SmittyOne : Now you're just showing off Jan Seriously though - did you hear about the guy who bought a wallet made out of foreskins? When you rub it, it turns in
126 Post contains images PanHAM : That's an old one but still a good one, The German word is "Pimmelleder".
127 slider : Funny how there's more outrage about male circumcision in the Western world on this thread and nary a word about female clitorectomies that are common
128 MD11Engineer : Correction: This practice is carried out in SOME Islamic countries, notably in Africa (Egypt, Sudan, several West African states, including Sierra Le
129 DocLightning : Because female circumcision is banned in Western countries. This thread isn't about that. I'd like to see anyone who performs a clitorectomy get cast
130 slider : True, however, I think this is a windmill that no one needs to really attack.
131 DocLightning : EVERY baby in the world should be born without any risk of having someone amputate a normal part of his or her anatomy.
132 MD11Engineer : I was married to a woman who had such a procedure performed on her (she was from Sierra Leone). It was still possible to get her to climax (the nerve
133 DocLightning : *sigh* *Sigh* This just validastes my view of religious people.
134 mariner : This isn't a thread about female circumcision, but I can go there if you want. There are tribes in Africa, in the Upper Nile area and parts of Somali
135 Post contains links Braybuddy : No one seems to have mentioned the dangers of male circumcision: penile mutilation, or even accidental castration: http://www.circumstitions.com/Law.h
136 Post contains links FlyboyOz : There was another story (other than circumcision) few months ago. A mother has no right to force her daughter to tan her skin because a daughter doesn
137 PanHAM : well, on the flip side, he might become a good singer. Excuse the sarcasm. Just saying, they did that on purpose to the "castrati" to keep the boys v
138 cruiseshipcrew : All I will say is I got it when I was 16/17 and wish I got it sooner. Also going to school in USA being uc was hell. I also can't stand reports, espec
139 TSS : But you got to choose for yourself, rather than having that choice taken away from you by someone else.
140 cruiseshipcrew : I sent you a private message.
141 Max Q : Female circumcision, if you can call it that or 'clitorectomy' is a mutilation and abomination without a doubt. It can in no way be compared to Male C
142 Post contains links flyingturtle : I've followed the aftermath of that ruling closely, reading a few German law blogs. Unfortunately, it's only a decision by the Landgericht Köln (Col
143 Braybuddy : No one is "outraged" about circumcision per se. It is directed at enforced circumcision.
144 Max Q : I agree it should not be enforced by the state. It should be the Parents decision.
145 tugger : Why? Why shouldn't it be up the individual what permanent, non-necessary surgical alterations are done to their own bodies? And that is what begets t
146 Max Q : That is my personal belief. I think the advantages outweigh any possible disadvantages.
147 TSS : I'm curious as to which "advantages" you refer. Putting aside the "basic human right to bodily integrity" issue, one would assume that if foreskins w
148 Max Q : Your geographical analysis reflects more of a religous attitude to the procedure in those countries than a practical one. Calling them a 'burden' is
149 tugger : See? As I said: And so the discussion continues.... So are you advocating that all "unnecessary" body parts should be removed? That's silly. It doesn
150 Post contains images Braybuddy : "Hey dad, I'm really glad you decided to have me mutilated and not the government"
151 moo : Both of which you have removed if you have issues with - you can't have those procedures carried out on a baby just because you as the parent wants t
152 cruiseshipcrew : Quite a statement to say. As someone who was cut in my teen years, I haven't felt any changes in how sensitive I am down there, I actually think it's
153 Max Q : You have no way of knowing that. Point made.
154 flipdewaf : Boldness added by myself. If the point you were trying to make that a personal decision was made then you are indeed correct. "My", "I", "I", "I". I t
155 cruiseshipcrew : Fred I didn't post it on this last reply but I said it above....it would have been a lot easier and made me happier if it was done on day one. My stat
156 flipdewaf : It's ok I was pointing out to MAX Q that perhas his point wasn't made. Should males have their nipples removed at birth? They just cause hassle with
157 moo : Actually, I have every way of knowing it - I have two friends who were cut, one at age 19, the other at age 23 and both were done (in a hospital) for
158 raffik : In babies, it is entirely unnecessary. If you are an adult and have a tight foreskin which stops you from having sex or retracting your foreskin for w
159 Post contains links kiwirob : A couple of week ago in Norway a baby boy died during a ritual circumcision, this led to calls to ban circumcision in Norway, fair call IMO, the govt
160 zippyjet : I'm Jewish so in our faith getting the tip nipped is standard operating proceedure. Thank God I didn't remember my "Bris" We make it a ceremony! I bel
161 flipdewaf : Not when you were born you weren't, if my dad said I was a banana when I was born it wouln't make me a banana. I don't understand how beleiving in th
162 PanHAM : That is exactly the point. Very good conribution overall BTW. Thanks. What cannot happen and will not be in line with our constitution is that , in G
163 TSS : While that may be true of the Middle East, in the US the vast majority of circumcisions are not performed for any religious reason.
164 Longhornmaniac : So basically we have uncircumcised people in here claiming you should make the decision yourself, and circumcised people claiming they don't care it's
165 Post contains links TSS : Actually, there has been a substantial decrease in it's popularity in recent years- http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/health/research/17circ.html[Edi
166 DocLightning : You know, as a gay man, I have a direct basis for comparison...
167 kiwirob : This Civilised countries banned it for girls now it should be banned for boys, religion be damned.
168 Max Q : Well said. Seriously It is not, by any stretch of the imagination remotely the same !
169 aerorobnz : Happily unchopped and have never ever had "eww an uncut penis" moment when I've fucked anyone. Most women don't seem to mind as long as it is big enou
170 kiwiandrew : I have to admit that I have been loathe to go there for fear of the mods, but I have to agree with you. We seem to have a lot of guys on here making
171 Post contains images Superfly : I want my foreskin back. How can I do that?
172 kiwirob : Tell that to the baby who died in Norway a couple of weeks ago due to complications caused this barbaric practice. It is the same, you are taking a c
173 Longhornmaniac : Do you? I have no doubt you've been on the receiving end of both, and can make claims for how it felt for you, but unless you've had both a circumcis
174 Post contains links kiwirob : A friend of mine had the chop in his thirties, he's stated sex just isn't the same nor anywhere near a pleasurable as it was before. People like your
175 TSS : A study from 2007 published in the British Journal of Urology under the title "Fine-touch pressure thresholds in the adult penis" did exactly that. I
176 DocLightning : I'm not going into details on a family board, but believe me, I do have some direct basis for comparison.
177 kiwirob : This is a family board?
178 Post contains images Longhornmaniac : And you know what it's like to be circumcised? The biased anti-circumcision website, with a few first-hand accounts, does absolutely nothing to furth
179 Post contains links zckls04 : The precis is here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17378847 Ask a man if he is happy with his circumcision and he will hear "is your penis defect
180 kiwirob : Yup I do, and I didn't get either of my sons cut, I was not going to mutilate them.
181 flipdewaf : That's by the by, why should someone be unnecessarily mutilated without consent? If I have a son would you say it's fine to cut his nipples off? Fred
182 JAGflyer : I've been watching this thread for a few days and finally feel I should comment. First of all, please don't ever compare male circumcision to female c
183 Post contains images DocLightning : It is not "excess" or "redundant." It is natural and normal. An accessory digit is "excess." A foreskin is not. You can masturbate without any lubric
184 JAGflyer : I have no adverse effects, as mentioned. I don't see how using or not using lubrication would be an adverse effect. For the record, you do not need l
185 DocLightning : I disagree. I cannot masturbate without lubrication. In fact, that is one of the reasons why circumcision was promoted by religious authorities; to p
186 cruiseshipcrew : Agree with you on this.
187 Post contains images JAGflyer : If only I was as lucky when it comes to games of chance.
188 Post contains links and images Longhornmaniac : Wow, man, that's terrible. You're honestly the only person I've ever met who's said that. So you're going to use that completely unsupported speculat
189 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Well I was also refraining but I thought I'd chime in. I do agree that the difference between female and male circumcision is great, and at least with
190 Max Q : Well, I think you're all a bunch of Wankers ! (Humor intended)
191 aerorobnz : not at all. it slides back as it is designed to..
192 kiwirob : You're jewish so your opinion on circumcision is colored by your faith, it's what I would expect from any jew or muslim. IMO the opinions of people w
193 cruiseshipcrew : Like I posted above I got it done in my late teen years, like it much better now and wish I got it a lot sooner.
194 jamincan : Circumcision does have a small chance of having severe complications. Considering it is an elective, cosmetic procedure, I seriously question the ethi
195 einsteinboricua : I do admit sometimes it's a problem. In the mornings it might get a bit stuck and before you can pull it back you're already "letting it flow" and it
196 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : I meant I doubt you would start getting frisky with someone, expose it, and your partner says "eww you're cut/uncut!" and walk away. It may seem stra
197 cruiseshipcrew : Without going into too much detail on a public forum, yes I was.
198 kiwirob : Like I said and linked to above, a baby in Norway died during a 'routine' circumcision a couple of months ago. The dangers are very real for what is
199 einsteinboricua : Fair enough. Yeah, that's just one advantage of being cut...but this rarely happens. It's those moments when you had a lot to drink and need to let i
200 jcs17 : It's very strange how gay males have such a strong opinion about circumcision. In my opinion, it marginalizes the gay community deeply as a people who
201 Post contains images Braybuddy : I know two guys who were circumcised because they couldn't retract their foreskin properly. I didn't know they were getting this done till they were
202 TSS : Who else is better qualified to offer an informed, experience-based opinion on the subject? Are you suggesting that straight guys are different from
203 Post contains images Acheron : Considering how many people have been whinning about how having to spend a few extra minutes cleaning themselves is burden, it seems it doesn't. In y
204 Post contains images mariner : Why is that strange? Most straight men I know are almost always conscious of the physical attributes of women. In a thread about male circumcision, t
205 Post contains images einsteinboricua : So if you want your daughter to be circumcised as well, I would assume that she would not protest? SO TRUE!
206 zckls04 : Clearly you're not a statistician. That's often the way it works when you're asking nebulous questions like "how do you feel". Of course the writer a
207 raffik : It's not about sex. It's about mutilating a child. If we were not meant to have foreskins then we wouldn't have been born with them.
208 DocLightning : Because most of us have experience with a lot of penises in our lives. Most straight men have intimate experience with only their own. The difference
209 geezer : I agree totally with the above two replies. I have been hearing this issue being knocked around for about 75 years now; every time I hear it again, I
210 jcs17 : **Raising my hand** I want you to go Saudi Arabia and protest this awful disfigurement. Let me know how it goes. ... you speak for yourselves. Again,
211 Pellegrine : Against. That the US and Israel are the two large practicers of male baby genital mutilation is telling. Jews get a pass because that is part of their
212 flipdewaf : I'm Assuming that if you wife wants to sandpaper off his nipples you'll be fine with that too? Fred
213 geezer : JCS...............I have no plans to go to Saudi Arabia, now or ever, so I have ZERO interest in what the people there think about the practice of ci
214 daviation : Uh, WTF are you talking about?? Have you forgotten that Muslims perform this practice as well? And how many Muslims are in this world? When all is sa
215 Acheron : Mostly because no one will admit their penis has any kind of shortcoming, real or perceived. And if you are cut, is not like you can change your mind
216 daviation : What are you, a professional psychologist? Don't put words in my mouth or anyone else's. I don't think anyone is referring to shortcomings, perceived
217 Post contains images zckls04 : Not necessarily. The idea that all this is fixed and never changes just isn't true. New Zealand for example went from a circumcision rate of virtuall
218 Superfly : Mines certainly doesn't. That is why my phone is constantly ringing off the hook. . . .
219 Post contains images DocLightning : Oh yes, because if they do it in KSA, we should do it here? Maybe we should ban women from driving, too? (Actually, come to think of it... ) They do.
220 ACJFLYER : I have not commented much in any forum on anet for a while but this one peaked my interest and after reading posts I have decided to add my two cents.
221 mariner : The essential point is that it was your decision. You have obviously thought very deeply about becoming circumcised - I would have liked that same op
222 ACJFLYER : Again, I am not trying to convince anyone that one way is better than the other. You are right as well when stating that because you were circumcised
223 RootsAir : I'm definitely for ...no matter what people say about losing sensitivity, I was circumcised without frenulum removal and hence kept all the erogenous
224 na : Looks like the German law is being distorted to prevent "the Jewish life from the worst threat since the holocaust", as an religious idiot called a re
225 flyingturtle : Thank you! I've returned from my holidays and I'm finally catching up with the fun on our family forum! Uh... what? My parents have never told me wha
226 jcs17 : Again, I simply state that only gay men or straight men with penis issues care whether a baby boy is cut or not. Correct me if I'm wrong. I feel reall
227 DocLightning : You're wrong. There are a great many people who care a lot about whether a baby boy is cut or not. In fact, in most cases, the mother makes the decis
228 mariner : I'll try again, too. In my case - gay - it has nothing to do with the sex. I find it difficult to imagine the sex can have been any better uncut than
229 aerorobnz : in other word, making a decision about a body part she doesn't even possess on her own body!!
230 jcs17 : Cite it.
231 ACJFLYER : Thank you for the clarification. I understand what you are saying now and I appreciate the clarity. They never taught me to work on retracting the fo
232 kiwirob : Religion shouldn't give anyone a free pass to mutilate someone else. That's something I've always wondered about, there is a Muslim family in my stre
233 PanHAM : Germany will now pass legislation that makes male circumcision possible and it will happen very quickly. It will be one of these laws that gets a majo
234 AA7295 : So I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say that the consensus is that we are all PRO-CIRCUMCISION? **You guys are so easy to stir!** Well I'm getting
235 kiwirob : May I ask why?
236 AA7295 : You may. I think it looks aesthetically better.
237 kiwirob : Probably one of the stupidest reasons for getting cut I've ever heard of.
238 AA7295 : You're 100% correct. It is stupid that I am getting it done at my age. I wish my parents had made this decision when I was young. You know the argume
239 GST : This thread seems to have reduced to trolling comments and the feeding of them. If I am wrong please tell me but making blanket statements that blata
240 kiwirob : Why do something that is unnecessary? It's about the same IMO as people removing limbs because they think they'll look more attractive without a leg,
241 Post contains links TSS : I suspect you're referring to extreme manifestations of "body dysmorphic disorder"- http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/body-dysmorphic-disorder/DS00559
242 cruiseshipcrew : Good decision! Have you checked your inbox yet?
243 DocLightning : One has a valid medical justification with lots of data showing a clear benefit. There is no data showing any harm. The other has no valid medical ju
244 DeltaMD90 : The only one that is stereotyping here is you. The issue here isn't about penises/sex, it's about personal liberty. And I am not gay nor do I have pe
245 777way : I'm for circumcision even if my religion did not warrant it.
246 kiwirob : That's because removing body parts is generally negative. I don't believe you, I very much doubt if you had the choice you'd do anything other than h
247 777way : ^ Could be, but I hate ugly looking things, so if I had bad teeth and a hooked nose and bats ears those would get fixed, so why not that ugly looking
248 na : If you´re grown up no one can deny that you are free do what you want. If you think its ugly, ok. But its a crime if you do it to minors or even wor
249 einsteinboricua : Let's look at it this way: suppose there's a cult where people must tattoo themselves to identify themselves as part of it and that all babies born fr
250 Acheron : It must suck to feel so insecure about something that an acceptable solution to it must be to cut part of it off... But hey, its your body and your c
251 flyingturtle : Even more troubling, and the problem is already knocking at our doors: Beating children for educational purposes. In Germany, it's illegal at the tim
252 DeltaMD90 : The same could be said about applying make up, piercing ears, etc, all done to "look better." Not always to defeat insecurity. But can you really bla
253 AA7295 : This is my point!! I was given the choice and I HATE that I was given this option. I wish I was cut at birth. In America where most males are circumc
254 Post contains links mariner : Some interesting (anti-cutting) quotes here: http://www.whale.to/a/circumcision_q.html "Pet owner: "What would you say if I wanted to get my dog circu
255 Post contains images curtisman : Definitely all for it. In my opinion - healthier, cleaner, and a few other reasons. And comments about this being mutilation - the word does not fit -
256 Post contains links kiwirob : It's not most, it's dropping, in 2010 it was 32.5% and has been dropping annually. see here You have no way of proving this unless you had it done af
257 curtisman : good point - but then the same applies to the other side of the argument. My comparison was based on discussion with mates on both sides of the equat
258 cruiseshipcrew : I got it a few years ago in my teens as I posted above and was active before and after and wish I got it done sooner! Def prefer it now.
259 Acheron : But unlike your face and ears, which tend to be part of social interactions on a day to day basis, your penis is not usually visible to others except
260 Pellegrine : As an uncircumcised person, I just don't understand the reasons e.g. aesthetics or old religious views people use to justify circumcision (a.k.a. baby
261 flipdewaf : Really? Reduced HIV transmission? Never ehard that before. How is it healthier? Its only cleaner if you dont wash and even then I'm dubious. What are
262 Post contains links TSS : There were a couple of highly publicized and extremely flawed studies that were released a few years ago that compared HIV transmission rates between
263 flyingturtle : I have the same thing, albeit in a mild form. Doesn't bother me 99% of the time. A possible answer is frenulotomy or frenulectomy. A German blogger s
264 lewis : You would take yourself or your child to an orthodontist, you would not pull out all of your child's teeth. You wouldn't give your infant child a nos
265 777way : ^ By getting circumcised one does not remove the entire penis. I'm talking about it as an adult, my choice not enforcing it on a kid, religion asks fo
266 lewis : That was going to the "bat ears", not circumcision. I do not consider it 'disfigurement' but I do consider it mutilation.
267 GST : It is a technical term that does not necessarily relate to a negative effect. As DocLightning explained upthread, an entirely successful cosmetic sur
268 AA7295 : Because that is how it occurs to YOU! It does not occur as "mutilated" to someone who is circumcised. I even doubt a medical professional would refer
269 curtisman : Excellent comment - I agree 100% It definitely is not mutilation. And I'm with you on the 'optimized' comment - this is my personal take on it too.
270 mariner : Oh. I think it is. My puzzle for those who favor it for religious reasons is this - uncut is the way we are born, the way God (assuming you believe i
271 kiwirob : Unless you're an active gay man I doubt you would have seen enough penis's to make that statement. Pretty sure gay men, Islam and Pakistan do not bel
272 Pellegrine : Excuse me? There are plenty of gay Muslims, and plenty of gay men in Pakistan.
273 kiwirob : How many openly gay muslim men would you find in Pakistan?
274 AA7295 : Who cares how many gay men there are in Pakistan! This thread is about circumcision. We've made progress, except for when someone calls a cut penis m
275 PanHAM : LOL, once in a car in Lahore, my hosts started laughing and I asked why. There was a "woman" walking on the side walk ahead and he/she was a transvest
276 flipdewaf : Aren't they employed by the government to embarrass people into paying their taxes? Fred
277 PanHAM : I would not be surprised, but really don't have a clue. The guys in the car made a couple of nasty remarks and I told them the Japanese translation o
278 kiwirob : Circumcision isn't progress it's a backwards thinking solution to a problem which doesn't exist, give it a decade or so and the only people being mut
279 einsteinboricua : Looking at definitions they all agree on the same thing: Disfigurement or injury by removal or destruction of a conspicuous or essential part of the
280 ACJFLYER : This is where the argument loses its steam. It is not an essential nor conspicuous part of the body. My life has not ended or been altered in a drama
281 GST : Whilst I know some have rather taken the tack of saying he's stupid, I'm not shure that's the consistent perspective of those from this side of the d
282 kiwirob : But his reasons for removal are trivial, he's not doing it for religious reasons, and it's not as if he has a medical need to have it chopped off lik
283 TSS : I've never said it should be the child's decision; I've said that it should be the decision of the individual to whom the foreskin is attached, and t
284 Post contains images mariner : If he wants to be cut, hey - go for it. The point being it is his choice. It isn't something I think about every day or very often - I love my cock -
285 DeltaMD90 : What an ignorant thing to say. I personally don't like those ear gauges or spike attachments on people (or earrings for men for that matter,) all alt
286 DocLightning : Doesn't matter. It's his penis. He can chop the whole thing off, for all I care. My objection is to parents and doctors making that decision for thei
287 prebennorholm : This issue seems to have reached the world wide press during this silly season, and it reached Denmark yesterday. The general consensus is: Nobody car
288 flyingturtle : It's called "mohel", and the procedure is "brit mila". Some people have yet to learn that freedom of belief is the freedom to believe, not the freedo
289 ACJFLYER : I think this was perfectly phrased. Though everyone has their different views there shouldn't be an attack on them for their choices. This is a slipp
290 Post contains images NAV20 : Must admit that my only personal connection with circumcision was noticing, at bath-time when we were both very small, that my older brother 'looked d
291 ME AVN FAN : I got circumcized at age 10 , and while the surgery was done in hospital under narcosis, the two or three weeks after were painful, complicted and mos
292 Rara : I like my foreskin like I like my women - at the end of my cock and reasonably clean.
293 Pellegrine : I'm so glad I'm uncut and unmolested.
294 JAGflyer : How long until we see people suing their parents for having them circumcised?
295 curtisman : You won't see it happen in Canada because it's not mutilation as some on here have wrongly suggested.
296 Post contains links NAV20 : Looks like parents won't be able to get unnecessary (i.e. 'non-medical') circumcisions done until the law is clarified. Not in hospitals, anyway:- "BE
297 777way : Age 10 is quite late you are supposed to have it done right after birth.
298 777way : So only gay men bathe in university dorm or gym showers?
299 Post contains links and images NAV20 : This is what bugs me about the whole circumcision business, 777way. It's quite obvious that 'you' - the subject - can't have it done in the first few
300 AA7295 : Look. I've come to almost regret posting this. It seems there are way too many emotional attachment to this issue. It doesn't matter whether you are "
301 flipdewaf : No, it is a mutilation. The problem would be that people don't understand the definition of the word. Mutilate:To disfigure by damaging irreparably.
302 cruiseshipcrew : I got it a few years ago in my teens! 10 would have been easier if not at birth.
303 daviation : I don't know what would possess me to add anything at all to this thread, but you raise an interesting question. Why don't religions phase out certai
304 flipdewaf : It's difficult question to ask, "Is your penis weird?" and that is actually not what it's about, its about someone else deciding it looks weird and c
305 daviation : Fred - I wasn't discussing circumcision per se again. You've made your point ad infinitum. We don't need to hear it regurgitated yet again. The questi
306 MEA-707 : You still don't get the main point; do parents have the right to decide that to their baby boys? What if some religion decided eating up their kids w
307 kiwirob : Nice to know you like looking at other men's junk! But they do, a fantastic example is the lesbien priest who baptised my unmarried brother in laws c
308 777way : Like others dont do it.
309 Post contains links NAV20 : As kiwirob points out, they often do, daviation. The Catholic Church, for example, and I believe most other Christian ones, 'phased out' the congrega
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