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Asylum Tragedy, Australia's Fault.. How?  
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5696 posts, RR: 44
Posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3765 times:
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Last week a boat load of asylum seekers breaking the laws of several countries, for often economic reasons, chose to ignore the advice of rescue authorities in two countries, ultimately sinking with great loss of life.(few confirmed dead at this point but many still missing after several days in the open ocean).

http://www.smh.com.au/national/17-bo...grim-task-ends-20120624-20vzn.html

These people pay large sums of money to queue jump the immigration process, as said earlier for often economic reasons. Many times the genuine political refugees bring their cultural and political conflicts with them!

Back to the main issue, these people ignored the advice of experts, Australian authorities advised their Indonesian counterparts.. to little apparent effect.. and continued onto disaster.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politi...-rescue-effort-20120623-20uzl.html

Somehow this is Australia's fault.. I don't get that.

In the article it states the boat phoned AMSA to say they were in trouble, it should be noted these criminals have AMSA's number on speed dial in their phones as it is their standard MO to get close to Australia and then declare an "emergency" it allows them to be "rescued" and thus legitimately get ashore on Australian territory.


If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
68 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2727 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3680 times:

Seems the writer of the article has a political axe to grind. The only ones at fault are the operators of the vessel and the asylum seekers. They knew they where in trouble when still close to Jakarta and did not go back.


OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineAA7295 From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3676 times:

Urgh! I'm sorry, why doesn't Indonesia inspect these boats before they leave. Would a crappy boat be allowed to travel in Australia... no!

Watch out... the majority of people on this forum are American. Who CLEARLY will let anyone ILLEGALLY enter their country. Legally... it's a different matter!


User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5696 posts, RR: 44
Reply 3, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3653 times:
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Quoting AA7295 (Reply 2):
Who CLEARLY will let anyone ILLEGALLY enter their country. Legally... it's a different matter!

Didn't intend this to be come a discussion of American immigration issues.

Both our countries(and several more) are hugely attractive to others, if we had very long land borders with another less attractive country we would have similar- or even worse- issues to the Americans.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 3604 times:

Hopefully Australia will eject them from Christmas Island back to their country of origin.

These criminal migrants should be shamed of themselves. If they want a better life, they should build one in their home country rather than break the laws of Australia to gain illegal entry.

Australia should stop being so soft, and start getting tough with these criminal migrants and the countries that quietly enable them.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7703 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3574 times:
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Solely the fault of the jerks organising these death trips. Those behind such activities should be hunted down and forced to spend the rest of their life behind bars. I don't approve of the individuals attempting to migrate illegally, but their actions are far more understandable than the bastards who profit from them and set up such mass attempts.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16259 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3525 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 5):
Solely the fault of the jerks organising these death trips. Those behind such activities should be hunted down and forced to spend the rest of their life behind bars. I don't approve of the individuals attempting to migrate illegally, but their actions are far more understandable than the bastards who profit from them and set up such mass attempts.

Both the organizers and the migrants themselves are EQUALLY to blame.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7703 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3524 times:
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Quoting yyz717 (Reply 6):
Both the organizers and the migrants themselves are EQUALLY to blame.

They are both to blame, but the systematic organising of such death trips for profit is the more morally repugnant side of it.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13115 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

As with the USA, Australia is not be obligated to do anything if in international waters and certainly if the boat is in the territorial waters of another country ot territory. Still, as with the USA government, Australia might have their Navy or their = to the USA's Coast Guard save those on a foundering or sinking ship out of humanity as well as under various treaties are signers to, return the passangers to their home country after medical checks and holding for criminal prosecution the boat's apparent captain and officers. For Australia, they may not have the same treaty obligations. Australia has a long history of strict immigration policy in part to not be overwhelmed by illegal immigration but also due to political pressures to do so.

User currently offlinemal787 From Australia, joined Jul 2007, 694 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3420 times:
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It may not be Australias fault, that lies soley at the blame of the people peddlars that are bringing them here in leaky boats. But why is it that Australia has to save them, when the boat was actually in Indonesian waters. Simple the Indonesian Goverment could not give a rats Ass. and the do gooding Greenies and the hangers on are now jumping around wanting an enquiry into how/ why it happened.

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 4):
Australia should stop being so soft, and start getting tough with these criminal migrants and the countries that quietly enable them.


Sadly our current Goverment is keen on handouts to all and sundry , boat people and any body else that wants it, they cant get tough as they fear loosing the next election, perhaps they should listen to your average Jo blow in the streets and every talk back station in the country , and wake up to them selves and realise they have already lost it, and stop wasting mine and every other taxpayers money for there own self gratification
rant over

mal787



Flying cant get enough of it
User currently offlinebookishaviator From Australia, joined Jun 2009, 246 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3368 times:

Quoting stealthz (Thread starter):
for often economic reasons

Really? Based on what? (I ask this sincerely, not because I'm trying to be argumentative.)

The vast majority of those detained under Howard's Nauru solution were eventually re-settled in Australia after being determined to be genuine refugees, so I'm interested to know what the current numbers are in terms of economic migrants vs. genuine refugees.

Anyway, I think the ultimate solution to Australia's border protection problems lies in Indonesia, but I can't see any of our current political leaders (those in government and those in waiting) having the balls to do anything about that. Everything else is more or less a band-aid solution. And even then, neither Gillard nor Abbott have offered anything worthwhile to that discussion.



When I die, when I die, I'll rot. But when I live, when I live, I'll give it all I've got.
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2873 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3343 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 4):
These criminal migrants should be shamed of themselves

They are refugees, NOT migrants !   

And they arrived illegally by boat, not with Visa's either !

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 4):
Australia should stop being so soft, and start getting tough with these criminal migrants and the countries that quietly enable them.

Yeah, like a country being discussed in another thread !!

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 5):
Solely the fault of the jerks organising these death trips. Those behind such activities should be hunted down and forced to spend the rest of their life behind bars. I don't approve of the individuals attempting to migrate illegally, but their actions are far more understandable than the bastards who profit from them and set up such mass attempts.

Agree 100%

Unfortunately, we need the cooperation of the Indonesians and that, as you can imagine is not easy on a scale like this. I would venture to say that there is also a degree of corruption.

Quoting mal787 (Reply 9):
Sadly our current Goverment is keen on handouts to all and sundry

Yes, blatant vote buying at its worst.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1222 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3345 times:

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 5):
Those behind such activities should be hunted down and forced to spend the rest of their life behind bars. I don't approve of the individuals attempting to migrate illegally, but their actions are far more understandable than the bastards who profit from them and set up such mass attempts.
Quoting RussianJet (Reply 7):
They are both to blame, but the systematic organising of such death trips for profit is the more morally repugnant side of it.

People smuggling trips are run by organized criminals, though this documentary suggests that not all the sailors on boats that are involved in people smuggling know what they are getting themselves into.
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/...ast/2012/05/20125151118975100.html



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5696 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3272 times:
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Slightly off the main topic...

I see on the Australian media tonight that the bleeding hearts are saying Australia's obligations to the UNHCR is to accept all (and rescue when in some other country) these people ... what about all the other countries between Australia and Middle/South Asia that see themselves as part of the 21st century world community, hell they are just happy to call Australia racist and evil.

Get over it .. you want to be seen as civililised.. act like it and stop passing off your responsibilities!!



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3265 times:

Australian vessels which pick up these boat people should take them straight back to Indonesia (or whichever country they belong to), without stopping off in Australia. Indonesia would not be allowed under international law to refuse to take them back.

You have to remember that for countries like Indonesia or the Philippines, they don't want to stop them from leaving. Just like Mexico, having economic refugees make it to a more prosperous country like Australia alleviates pressure on their own systems and on top of that provides a source of external revenue as those people send money back to their families.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4832 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3220 times:

Quoting stealthz (Reply 13):
what about all the other countries between Australia and Middle/South Asia

      
Have been saying this for a long time now. Most refugee's coming to Australia (with the exception of Indonesians) have several countries to go through before they reach Australia.
Surely the point of being a refugee is to escape danger/persecution etc in your own country (although in many cases perhaps they should all be staying and standing up together as has happened in most countries at some point in their history rather than running away), so that means Afghans go to Pakistan, Iran or other neighbouring countries, Somalis go to another part of Africa, etc etc. The ONLY reason why they are making their way all that distance to Australia is for economic reasons... ie they cease to be refugees and becoming economic migrants (and therefore jumping the queue over those who have applied for visas through the right channels). Why? Well they can live the easy life in Australia, get housing, benefits, aid etc and then follow that up by bringing in their parents, grandparents, brothers, sisters, cousins, children etc.
Further to this most are of Muslim background where even if just 5% (which is a very very conservatively low number) hate/are radical then that means that every year there are potentially many terrorists/supporters entering the country that have no business being there.

So we have: 1) Economic migrants (most with little practical education or useful skills to Australia),
2) Costs borne by the Australian taxpayer to process and care for them
3) Places taken for real migrants by these queue-jumpers
4) Almost certainly a large potential for fundamentalists/radicals who wish harm against Australia.

That is why (and rightly so) Australia takes its position as it does (actually it should be tougher but libertarians etc pay for powerful lawyers and lobbyists).



56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7391 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3180 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 11):
They are refugees, NOT migrants !

Really, are they really, most of the ones we see around here are drug dealing scumbags.

I don't believe any country should take any of these people in, the answer to the problems are better resolved in their home countries, passing them on to the west to resolve these issues is unfair on the taxpayers of the countries they end up in.


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2873 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3164 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 16):
Really, are they really, most of the ones we see around here are drug dealing scumbags.

You are right KiwiRob. I was just being PC.

Most of them are IMHO, shady to say the least.

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments about them being dealt with in their own country in a more satisfactory way, but in the global world we live and the international conventions that Australia is signatory too, we have little choice but to accept them.

Oh its a crazy mixed up world isn't it ????

I must say that the "pacific solution" (Naru) of the Howard Government, was and is the way to go forward on this. Labor has only made matters much worse ! Like everything they do.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 15):
3) Places taken for real migrants by these queue-jumpers

     

Did you know that there are more than 30 million refugees in camps around the world, all waiting to be allocated a spot within a accepting country.Some have been waiting years, patiently. And for every queue jumper that arrived on our shores, these other get pushed back.!
For that reason alone, I would NOT accept them under any circumstances.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3095 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 14):
Australian vessels which pick up these boat people should take them straight back to Indonesia (or whichever country they belong to), without stopping off in Australia.

Case of 'if only.......,' Dreadnought. These boats are almost always wornout wrecks, often in 'readymade' sinking condition - so intercepting them usually comes under the heading of 'rescues at sea.' In that situation our Navy is presumably legally bound to take them to a 'place of safety' - generally speaking, the nearest land.

As a matter of fact, mainland Australia is over 2,000kms. from Indonesia - such boats would never make it there. But Christmas Island and the Cocos Islands - both Australian sovereign territories, part of Western Australia - are only about 500kms. from the Asian mainland. So all the people-smugglers have to do is to get reasonably close to them and 'call for help.' As the press stories indicate, they usually literally 'ring up' the Rescue Services on mobile phones........and the Navy really has no alternative but to 'rescue' them and take them to Christmas or Cocos.

A previous Australian government followed a policy of 'off-shore processing' - basically shipping them all to Nauru, way out in the Pacific, rather than mainland Australia. Most of them did turn out to be 'refugees' and eventually get admitted to Oz - but the certainty of having to spend a long time cooling their heels in what is almost literally 'the middle of nowhere' certainly reduced the numbers coming. But the present government scrubbed the 'Nauru solution' and currently ships them straight to the mainland for processing.

I think the pressure of public opinion will soon produce further changes - probably some sort of return to off-shore processing. I hope it does - Australia has a good reputation for taking in refugees, but there is an official annual 'quota' -at the moment the illegal arrivals are pretty well taking up that quota, so more deserving people who apply in the normal way are having to wait even longer........

[Edited 2012-06-25 20:10:09]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2873 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3086 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 18):
our Navy is presumably legally bound to take them to a 'place of safety' - generally speaking, the nearest land.

Hi NAV20,

Yes, except in this case I thought the nearest land was Indonesia, yet somehow they end up here. I note that no politician has been able to satisfactorily answer that.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 18):
I think the pressure of public opinion will soon produce further changes - probably some sort of return to off-shore processing. I hope it does

Let me second that !

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 18):
Australia has a good reputation for taking in refugees, but there is an official annual 'quota' -at the moment the illegal arrivals are pretty well taking up that quota, so more deserving people who apply in the normal way are having to wait even longer........

Funny that the greens are silent when asked directly about that scenario, casually brushing it aside. I saw Milne a few night ago on the TV, she was asked directly about that.... all we got as a reply, was something about "these people have no choice" not like the ones in the UNHCR camps, patiently waiting their turn...



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 35
Reply 20, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

Yet another 'refugee boat' has sunk - 107 miles north of Christmas Island. It is the second one in a week; a few days ago another boat sank with the loss of over 100 lives.

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...om-ocean-death-20120627-211jz.html

Possibly there is a new 'twist' emerging. The passengers on the earlier boat were reported to be all men; apparently the 150 people on this latest one are all women and children......... Possibly the people-smugglers are now separating families before taking them to sea - and, often enough, getting them drowned?

The conviction ia also growing on me that all these boats aren't just sinking because they're worn out - almost always, conveniently, just about exactly 100 miles from Christmas Island. It looks increasingly likely that the people-smugglers are deliberately scuttling them.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2951 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 20):
The conviction ia also growing on me that all these boats aren't just sinking because they're worn out - almost always, conveniently, just about exactly 100 miles from Christmas Island. It looks increasingly likely that the people-smugglers are deliberately scuttling them.

Like the "coyotes", who guide illegal immigrants through the deserts between northern Mexico and the US robbing those whom they are supposed to guide of their belongings and then leave them to die in the desert?

Jan


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3948 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2945 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 20):
The conviction ia also growing on me that all these boats aren't just sinking because they're worn out - almost always, conveniently, just about exactly 100 miles from Christmas Island. It looks increasingly likely that the people-smugglers are deliberately scuttling them.

Or just abandoning the ships as they themselves don't wish to be arrested by the authorities - an abandoned ship that overloaded and of that size will rapidly become an issue to its passengers.


User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2873 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2937 times:

Quoting moo (Reply 22):
Or just abandoning the ships as they themselves don't wish to be arrested by the authorities

The crew, once established, will be arrested by the authorities, as they are considered people smugglers. Don't worry about that.
Our present Government, is more then willing to make a big thing about their prosecution, in the hope that it will put others, perhaps those considering such actions, off !

These cartels, for want of a better word, are well organized.

They, the crew, and I reckon many of the passengers, would know full well that if the boat sinks, or is in imminent danger of sinking, then under international maritime law they will be rescued, by sources closest to the nearest landfall, which just so happens to be Australia !

[Edited 2012-06-27 02:55:57]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinestealthz From Australia, joined Feb 2005, 5696 posts, RR: 44
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2908 times:
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Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 23):
by sources closest to the nearest landfall, which just so happens to be Australia !

Not totally accurate, the incompetence shown by Indonesia.. or perhaps just their inate hostility to Australia.. leads to situations where Australia bears the brunt of the rescue operations even when in Indonesian waters..

With last weeks capsize, the nearest landfall was Indonesia, why were the rescued not taken there?

Why would the caring humanitarians of Indonesia not stop these boats leaving and throw their criminal crews in prison?

Because it suits their purposes to fob these problems off on Australia, just a bonus that they make Australia look bad in the process.



If your camera sends text messages, that could explain why your photos are rubbish!
25 Post contains images TheCommodore : Yes stealthz, You have a point, however, I have already raised that point in a previous post (19 from memory) Apparently, we are now responsible for
26 moo : You miss my point - the crew would be arrested if they stayed with the boat when it reached Australian territories, plus they probably have pay to co
27 Post contains images mal787 : Ok how about hand the soverign rites of these 2 islands back to the original owners, must be related to indonesia in some way or form prior to the Br
28 stealthz : And this would not occour if Indonesia lived up to their Safety at sea obligations and stopped these death traps sailing in the first place. Indonesi
29 TheCommodore : No Moo, I haven't missed your point. And no, its not a matter of "staying with the boat" either. These people (the crew of the boat) will be arrested
30 TheCommodore : And don't forget, we have already given the Indonesians a couple of hand me down's, patrol boats to do just that/ Maybe we have to give them fuel, to
31 bookishaviator : Well the answer to that is already known: because Indonesia won't do it. I don't think that's any sort of conspiratorial secret - Indonesia's neglige
32 stealthz : And a handful of C-130 Hercules for transport and humanitarian purposes.. and in a biting the hand that feeds you moment they turned around and asked
33 TheCommodore : Im not so sure They ask all sorts on inane questions, except this one Agreed, but the Perss gallery is out to score political points to, so it still
34 NAV20 : Not so, stealthz, I'm afraid. News just came out that the last two boats sank in positions only 13 miles apart - and that the first one was only 107
35 moo : Yes, you are indeed missing my point - I dont care about what happens to the crew *now*, whether they will be hunted down or not, thats not part of m
36 stealthz : Christmas Island is approx 220 mi from Indonesia so "far and away" is a bit of a stretch The June 21 capsize declared itself in difficulty and was ad
37 Post contains links NAV20 : Not so, as far as I know, Moo. They stay with the boats, get 'rescued' along with the others, and put on trial. But only for 'people-smuggling,' whic
38 TheCommodore : I think not. As far as I'm aware Moo, these "crew" do not abandon the boats. They are rescued along the all the passengers, interviewed, identified (
39 j.mo : Really? Have you looked at a map lately? You are on an island. Now push that island north into Indonesia, the Philippines and Malaysia. Now guard tha
40 stealthz : Absolutely agree.. indeed made that point in reply 2
41 KiwiRob : Christmas Island amd Cocos Islands were unihabited when discovered, you could always give them back to the birds. Australia should follow the same po
42 Post contains links and images NAV20 : Probably was overdoing it a bit, stealthz! But, in a way, it rather confirms my suspicion that, as soon as they are sure that they're closer to Austr
43 Post contains images mandala499 : Who doesn't want Indonesia to have a strong navy... Australia Who doesn't want Indonesia to have a strong fisheries patrol force/Coast Guard/EEZ patr
44 stealthz : What do you mean you are under no obligation to provide SAR ops within your SAR zone. The head of your SAR ops has been very critical of Australia( t
45 Post contains links TheCommodore : Oh no....... You must be mistaken mandela499. Australia gifted you Patrol Boats and aircraft not long ago, in fact, they, the boats, were give on the
46 Post contains images mandala499 : That's his problem... Our Maritime SAR assets are deployed elsewhere, and we have little or no SAR capability south of Java... except for coastal SAR
47 TheCommodore : Not sure if you saw my earlier reply, but you may have moved on..anyway. We know that already, so that's why Australia gave Indonesia 3 Patrol boats a
48 bookishaviator : Where have you pulled this number from?
49 Post contains images TheCommodore : One place comes to mind.
50 Post contains links NAV20 : Hi, mandala499, good to 'see' you again. But I must admit that this comment of yours shook me.......... I'm not concerned about their political/econom
51 stealthz : And this sorry situation will continue as the unrepresentative party that holds the balance of power in the unrepresentative house of our parliament b
52 KiwiRob : It's not in Australia's best interests to help either, personally I don't understand why they do? If it's not in Australian or international waters i
53 QFA380 : I guess you haven't seen the number of politicians that have cried in the last two days, all trying to out 'care' each other. We consider ourselves c
54 KiwiRob : To be honest (and I'll sound pretty callous) I couldn't care less if a boat load of illegals sank and they all died, sure it's a tragedy but I don't
55 TheCommodore : We have too KiwiRob, under the international convention for refugees, we have no choice. Depends which cases you are talking about, the last 3 arriva
56 KiwiRob : The Indos get away with not helping, nothing appears to happen to them!
57 TheCommodore : I know, and I think this is what angers most of us here in Oz Quite honestly, the Indonesians appear to be absolutely hopeless. And I agree wholehear
58 Post contains images mandala499 : And when when the anti corruption commission want to put on trial these corrupt officials... the parliament comes in and throws a racket. Sad sad sit
59 bjorn14 : I'm sorry about that but it's not Australia's problem even though they tried to help fix it.
60 Zkpilot : Australia helping does not mean let them immigrate necessarily and it shouldn't either.
61 NAV20 : KiwiRob, do you really want the Australian Navy - and any passing ships - just to leave these boatloads (who usually include large numbers of women a
62 kiwirob : Well if they are not in Australian waters........
63 Post contains links and images NAV20 : I duly telephoned some government departments yesterday, about the possibility of the crews of two recent boats (which capsized with heavy loss of lif
64 stealthz : Hey Nav, Had not read your post earlier but reading the article in the Sydney Daily Telegraph I did think someone had been reading this thread. The li
65 NAV20 : 'Ideas' are almost never down to one person, stealthz - you definitely played a part, by sorting me out about the distance between Indonesia and Chri
66 mandala499 : I wish... all they needed is to find someone desperate enough (and there are lots of them here given the size of the population). Agree, 3 yrs is "sm
67 stealthz : Two more boats today, 2 Australian ships rushing to a boat in distress 45KM from Java. Getting sick of Indonesia's excuses .. step up to the plate and
68 qantas077 : corruption is a beautiful thing...
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