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South Korea Uses North Korean Flag During War Sim  
User currently onlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1390 posts, RR: 4
Posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2169 times:

In a nutshell, the South Koreans and the US took part in a war simulation, and used the North Korean flag for target practice. The North Koreans are up in arms about this.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...flag-during-u-south-143445840.html

Is it just me who thinks the North Koreans have a point? Regardless of whether we think North Korea under Kim Jong-Un has aggressive intentions or not, isn't this just asking for trouble?

[Edited 2012-06-25 14:53:15]


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20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3637 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2154 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Thread starter):
Is it just me who thinks the North Koreans have a point?

I agree with you. I think the North using the South's flag for target practice would be considered a provocation by the South, the US and its allies.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7919 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2140 times:

Yeah this probably wasn't the best idea. Just gives them more of an excuse to be all paranoid


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineGST From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 934 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2130 times:

I wonder if this is a deliberate provocation in order to see how the new head honcho in the north will react, I don't think anyone would expect even the north to fire shots over it, but the level of diplomatic bluster may be telling to analysts. It is a high profile exercise so unlikely for something like this to remain secret, hence there must have been reasonable expectation that the north would hear of it.

User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6109 posts, RR: 29
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2115 times:
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So what? I am sure the North Koreans do things to the South Korean flag all the time, but we just don't know about it.

They are still are holding the USS Pueblo (which is technically still commissioned) and using is propaganda piece and nobody seems to care.

Have we become so PC that we can't upset the North Koreans?

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 2):
Just gives them more of an excuse to be all paranoid

I don't think they can become anymore paranoid.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7704 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2114 times:
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Regardless of what anyone thinks of North Korea, it was a silly thing to do. Any dimwit could figure out that it would be viewed as highly provocative.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineJetsgo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3085 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Ummm....




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User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Not much to say other than this was a completely stupid move by the South Koreans. What is this possibly going to accomplish? I don't see any positive results coming from this, and it did nothing but give the North more ammo for their propaganda.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
So what? I am sure the North Koreans do things to the South Korean flag all the time, but we just don't know about it.

They are still are holding the USS Pueblo (which is technically still commissioned) and using is propaganda piece and nobody seems to care.

I guess you believe in an eye-for-an-eye, eh?



Flying refined.
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2874 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2087 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Thread starter):
Is it just me who thinks the North Koreans have a point?

No, not at all.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
So what? I am sure the North Koreans do things to the South Korean flag all the time, but we just don't know about it.

Why do it at all. Just because the Nth Koreans do it why should we follow suit ?

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
Have we become so PC that we can't upset the North Koreans?

Maybe ? but why give them something to whinge about in the first place.

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 5):
it was a silly thing to do.

Certainly was.Dumb too.



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3130 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2051 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Thread starter):
Is it just me who thinks the North Koreans have a point?

No.

Quoting zckls04 (Thread starter):
Regardless of whether we think North Korea under Kim Jong-Un has aggressive intentions or not, isn't this just asking for trouble?

True, but...let's not forget the many provocations from the North as well, among them the shelling of a nearby island and the sinking of a ship. Besides, with all the rhetoric of how the South will burn to the ground, a little warning to the North that the South is not a pushover doesn't harm anyone either.

North Korea is like the spoiled brat that taunts and threatens others but when threatened will cry foul.

Not saying that what the South did is right, but I can't defend the North's claim of provocation when it has yet to prove its commitment to stability in the area.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19807 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2042 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Thread starter):
In a nutshell, the South Koreans and the US took part in a war simulation, and used the North Korean flag for target practice. The North Koreans are up in arms about this.

Yeah... And now SK is going to have the nerve to act surprised.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 4):
So what? I am sure the North Koreans do things to the South Korean flag all the time, but we just don't know about it.

The fact that someone we don't like does something we don't like doesn't give us the right to do the same thing. Just because Islamist terrorists target civilians does not make it OK for us to start targeting civilians.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7654 posts, RR: 18
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2010 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Thread starter):
The North Koreans are up in arms about this.
Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 6):

seriously, who does? If N.K. tries to do anything, us, S. Korea, Taiwan, and Japan will bomb the living Juche outta them.



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4024 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1994 times:

Yeah, I agree, it was totally unclear who South Korea and the U.S. were preparing for an invasion from in their military exercise if it wasn't for that North Korean flag. For a moment there I thought Seoul was preparing from an invasion by Gambia, good thing they cleared that up.


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User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2874 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1975 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 11):
seriously, who does? If N.K. tries to do anything, us, S. Korea, Taiwan, and Japan will bomb the living Juche outta them.

Yeah... that's the way. Bomb all them.   



Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7704 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1969 times:
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Quoting Pyrex (Reply 12):
Yeah, I agree, it was totally unclear who South Korea and the U.S. were preparing for an invasion from in their military exercise if it wasn't for that North Korean flag. For a moment there I thought Seoul was preparing from an invasion by Gambia, good thing they cleared that up.

Very amusing. Diplomatically though it was a dumbass move, and the flag quite obviously makes all the difference there.

However, I would pay money to see Gambia try to launch such an invasion. It would be pretty hilarious!



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlinekpitrrat From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1946 times:



Just an example of North Korean indoctrination. However, I am sure there are many other countries who feel the same way. Still not the same as a flag in a war sim...

Heres a news report. I am sure through a Google search you can find more.
http://www.dailyrepublic.com/usworld...-learning-to-hate-us-starts-early/

[Edited 2012-06-25 19:09:31]

User currently offlinestarbuk7 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 599 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 1839 times:

This is such a non issue. We have Navy "aggressor" squadrons that have 'Russian Stars' painted on all their aircraft's tails and wings "all the time" that fly against regular squadrons for dogfight practice and nothing is ever said about it.

User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14030 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 1825 times:

Quoting kpitrrat (Reply 15):

Just an example of North Korean indoctrination. However, I am sure there are many other countries who feel the same way. Still not the same as a flag in a war sim...

Actually in West Berlin during the 1970s, when we played soldiers as kids, the bad guys were always the Russians. Ok, it was the heigth of Cold War and there was a real confrontation between the Soviets and the Western Allies going on, and we would see US Army patrols armed to the teeth every day, as well as occasional military training exercises right in residential areas (it was funny to watch fully kitted-out GIs, British Squaddies or French Poilus covering each other with machine guns in the streets, while the locals would be busy going shopping for groceries around them).
But we also got heavily indoctrinated by our grandfathers, who fought with the Wehrmacht in WW2 and still saw the Russians as traditional enemies (my paternal grandfather, who´s family was driven from their former farmland in East prussia, today´s Kaliningrad Oblast, was always demanding to have NATO armoured divisions to drive through Poland to recover the former German eastern provinces).


Also, don´t forget that North and South Korea are stil officially at war and that practically all bloodshed during the last 40 years along the border was started by North Korea (who also dropped special forces soldiers in South Korea on various occasions to carry out probing attacks).

Jan

[Edited 2012-06-26 06:02:02]

User currently onlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1390 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 1752 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 12):
Yeah, I agree, it was totally unclear who South Korea and the U.S. were preparing for an invasion from in their military exercise if it wasn't for that North Korean flag. For a moment there I thought Seoul was preparing from an invasion by Gambia, good thing they cleared that up.

You're missing the point somewhat. Nobody's claiming the South Koreans are unfairly focusing on NK (they are after all at war). The issue is whether provoking the North is a sensible thing to do diplomatically. I know there are many on this forum who don't believe in diplomacy and prefer we settle things with weaponry, but even if that's what you believe you have to concede the US doesn't really have the money for another war right now.

What benefit does provoking NK have? What benefit is there to providing yet another piece of propaganda for them to spoon-feed the next generation? How often do you think this image will be shown in North Korea? Maybe it will even make its way into school text books.



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User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14030 posts, RR: 62
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 1714 times:

Just like the US Army training exercise I witnessed in West Berlin in the early 1980s (I was still in highschool back then). As usualy Red Force versus Blue Force, only that the Red Force carried Soviet equipment (I saw one GI armed with an RPG-7) and drove in vehicles with red markings (plus they wore the oldstyle olive drab US Army uniforms from the 1960s with steel helmets, while the Blue Force soldiers wore the at that time regular unifrm, with IIRC kevlar helmets).

There exist various British Army training movies from Cold war on Youtube, with the "enemy" soldiers dressed in Soviet uniforms and using stock pictures from Soviet training exercises.

Jan


User currently offlineFRAspotter From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2354 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1421 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Thread starter):
Is it just me who thinks the North Koreans have a point? Regardless of whether we think North Korea under Kim Jong-Un has aggressive intentions or not, isn't this just asking for trouble?
Quoting lewis (Reply 1):
I agree with you. I think the North using the South's flag for target practice would be considered a provocation by the South, the US and its allies.

Oh please! I hate it when the "news" tried to state the facts but then screws up big time! Just FYI to everyone who is jumping on the "bash South Korea bandwagon" with no real world knowledge of the situation, the North Korean flag was NOT used as "target practice" as the media makes it out to be. It was just used to signify the border between North and South Korea during the extent of the exercise. At no time was the flag actually shot at!   



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