stasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3291 posts, RR: 7 Posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2240 times:
2013 Mercedes B-class 5 door
Mercedes-Benz will finally market a electric version of its updated sub-compact B-Class hatchback in the United States by 2014. Mercedes had previously announced it was co-developing an electric version of its new-generation B-Class 5-door hatchback with assistance from Tesla, but made no press comments on USA sales plans.
“Zero-emission vehicles receive more favorable classifications and higher incentives than vehicles with a range extender,” a Mercedes spokesperson said. “This is especially an issue in the U.S.”
The electrically-powered B-Class will arrive in U.S. showrooms sometime in model year 2014. Mercedes was also planning a range-extending plug-in hybrid version of the B-Class to launch around the same time, but Mercedes has shelved that program for the time being. Electric car builder Tesla was reportedly to supply Mercedes with electric motors, batteries and other components for the plug-in B-Class, as Mercedes owns about 5 percent of Tesla.
Ps76 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2114 times:
Please forgive me but I know very little about electric vehicle usage. Can I ask what would be the range and speed? Would you have to go home to charge it and could you just plug it into the wall to charge? How long would the charge take. Would the batteries eventually need to be replaced like my Black and Decker dustmaster!
Like I said I know very little but I think hybrids are doing much better commercially because they are more what people can use at the moment, especially in the USA where distances are greater than Europe. I've seen golf buggies and small electric cars selling very well in the USA, but this is mostly for use in big retirement "villages" and college campuses and stuff. (well the college campus thing I got from a movie I saw!).
Anyway I hope they do well. While their cars are nothing like the quality of their golden years, I still like the Mercedes brand.
larshjort From Denmark, joined Dec 2007, 1653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2109 times:
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter): “Zero-emission vehicles receive more favorable classifications and higher incentives than vehicles with a range extender,” a Mercedes spokesperson said. “This is especially an issue in the U.S.”
I'd love to see it in Denmark, I know many people where it would fit perfectly.
The same in Denmark, we have the 180% registration fee for new cars but 100% electracally powered vehicles are exempt whereas hybrids are treated as normal cars. That makes hybrid cars extremely expensive.
The Renault Fluence Z.E will retail at 205.000kr where the Prius was 425.000kr in 2010. They don't seem to sell the Prius anymore and that was the newest price I could find.
poLOT From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2624 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2105 times:
I see they are taking the same approach that Ford is doing with the C-max here; concerned that the car with typical powertrain options would not fit the brand image/sell well here so they are making it more special by going electric only (or in Ford's case hybrid or electric versions only)
mham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3940 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2094 times:
Quoting Ps76 (Reply 1): Please forgive me but I know very little about electric vehicle usage. Can I ask what would be the range and speed? Would you have to go home to charge it and could you just plug it into the wall to charge? How long would the charge take. Would the batteries eventually need to be replaced like my Black and Decker dustmaster!
Being a German car company with a green announcement, I would normally say, "believe when you see it" but since Mercedes does have an interest in Tesla, I tend to believe this one. Mercedes has not offered the details but you can probably extrapolate from Tesla. They sell the Model S which travels 265 miles (EPA) on a charge. Tesla says it can be charged half full in 30 minutes with a Level 4 charger, something we don't have in our garages("full" charge requires a float time). But, yes, you can plug it in at home. IIRC 3 hours for a full charge with 240v or Level 2 charger. The batteries will lose capacity with time, Tesla warranties theirs for 8 years.
Search Youtube Tesla Model S, you can learn a lot about a very exciting platform.
prebennorholm From Denmark, joined Mar 2000, 6699 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1996 times:
Quoting mham001 (Reply 4): The batteries will lose capacity with time, Tesla warranties theirs for 8 years.
"Based on testing, Tesla expects the battery to retain approximately 70% of its initial capacity after seven years or 100,000 miles.
You may easily continue driving with the "old" battery even if capacity degrades even further, but if you drive a lot and range is important to you, then 100k miles will be a late day of battery renewal.
That initiates the question of cost of battery change. It is impossible to guess about future prices of batteries, fortunately they have gone down during the later years. But if we look at present day prices:
Tesla Model S comes with three battery options, standard, 50% enlarged and 100% enlarged. The long ranges mentioned earlier on this thread is based on the largest battery. With that battery the car goes for just under $80k or $20k more than with the standard battery. Based on that we can assume the big battery pack to go at approximately $40k.
That is 40 cent per mile for battery maintenance. Or a few times more than the gas price for a similarly sized ordianry car. So let's hope that battery price goes down before a change is relevant.
A lot of money can be saved by choosing the stadard ("half size") battery. And remember, range will still be longer than half since with that option you have a car which is well over a thousand lbs lighter.
On top of that comes cost of electric power, which fortunately is much less than the battery maintenance cost. Over 100k miles we can expect 36,000 kW/h when assuming 90% efficiency on battery charging and 90% efficiency on the charger transformer and rectifier. That will only be 5 or 10k depending on your local utility prices.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs, Preben Norholm
Thanks for that. My mistake on the warranty, 8 years is for the Volt and Leaf.
Batteries are dropping in price 10-15%/year. What the future holds, who knows, too many announcements made all the time, most of which is vaporware, but the core technology is falling rapidly.
I expect that the aftermarket will step up as with the Prius and offer battery servicing/replacement at lower costs than OEM. Individual bad cells can be traced and replaced. Even today, you can buy the exact battery Tesla uses.
Just one more thing, the high end of your electricity costs are not realistic in this country. Few will pay more than $.20/kW, average is ~.12/kW. Some regions are significantly lower. Some already have the solar system on their roof. If our Tesla driver were to pay >20/kW over 100k - ~$5,000 in electricity.
The Model S is aimed at the BMW 7 series market, so taking the comparable 750i, 100,000 miles at $3.75/gal (premium) with a combined mpg of 17, there is $22,058 in fuel costs.
One thing though. People buying either of these cars are not too worried about costs.
Aesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 7501 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (2 years 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1880 times:
First, that car is really ugly.
Then, I don't believe electric only cars are a good idea currently, unless we're talking about city cars. Doing my daily commute to an internship recently I saw a few Citroën C-Zéro and Renault Zoé, and I was wondering what they were doing on the freeway in the country, so far from their natural habitat !
Batteries are just not there yet. About cost, here the trend seems to be renting the thing, that way the manufacturers don't have to give a warranty they're not sure about, and the upfront cost of the car looks better. The Renault Zoé can be had for 15700€ for example, thanks to a 5000€ government bonus. Then you must pay 79€/month and not drive more than 12500Km/year. I'm guessing they're losing money on the battery, especially considering the Renault/Nissan battery plant failed miserably and had to be given to LG.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams