travelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1380 posts, RR: 5 Posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3367 times:
So I'm kind of in a weird position; I'm gonna be sketchy on some details because I really don't know who's reading this, so bare with me.
I work in a very conservative organisation with a very strict hierarchical culture. My job is an internal IT consultant, good job, not very high in the hierarchy but also not at the bottom.
The nature of my job often gets me in touch with people higher up in the organisation. One of these people is a beautiful, tall woman, I guess 5 years older than me, but holy $@#%$# she's hot. The short conversations we had were always nice, but just collegial. Now about a month ago me and 6 colleagues, including her, were placed in a training program that took 3 days spread out over 3 weeks (so 1 day every week). This training course also included homework that had to be done with a buddy.
Well, quite to my surprise she choose me. Didn't take any notice of it then, we never really had a good long conversation and from the nature of her job it's important that she knows everybody. So I just figured that was the reason we became buddies.
First homework assignment, we had lunch in the office, but talked about anything except the assignment.
Second and last time she thought it was nice to have lunch outside the office in a restaurant. Now I started to get a tiny bit suspicious. But no biggie, maybe I'm seeing things. So we spend more than 2 hours talking and really having a great time. She even rescheduled a meeting because her "current meeting is prolonged".
So long story short, she gave me quite a few hints and I decided to take a gamble and ask her out for dinner. To which she quite enthousiasticly said Yes.
But now the shock of me asking her for dinner and she saying yes has worn off I start to wonder a bit. Is this smart? Am I setting myself up for a huge disaster at work. I always tried not to get involved with collegeaus, work is kind of my sanctuary. But we just have this chemistry that I couldn't resist and now we are here, in this situation. I already decided I'm gonna go slow and be honest to her that it's a bit of strange situation. But should I maybe do something else? I've never been in this situation, so does anybody have any advice?
fr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 4253 posts, RR: 12 Reply 2, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3323 times:
Is there a corporate policy on dating? Specifically, employees of a different corporate level?
If there is a policy, typically the person higher in the food chain suffers the consequences, but I wouldn't want to be either person. And, believe me, no matter how much you think you're keeping it secret, it's not.
If there is no policy, the decision is basically up to you and her. How do you feel about dating a superior? Is she really your superior? Are you a direct or indirect report? How does she feel about it?
Take it slow, talk to her about it and how you are a little worried. If she seems to find the fact that you are her junior the appealing part rather than you yourself then don't trust her too much. The same can be said for you being a "toy boy". I found that 10 years was too much older for me but 5 years older then me has worked out fine and I will be a toy husband in 7 weeks and one daygloss>. If she isn't directly in your arm of the hierarchy (if that makes sense) then I wouldn't worry too much about being in trouble at work. The most you can worry about is being hurt and still having to see them every day.
travelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1380 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3290 times:
Quoting JJJ (Reply 1): Do it anyway, the experience is surely worth it.
I tend to agree, shame I can't post a picture of her
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2): How do you feel about dating a superior?
Well, it's a first for me. So I'm still forming my feelings But I think I really don't care, she's higher in function yes, but in conversation we're equal. Don't know (yet) how things in bed would be haha
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2): Is there a corporate policy on dating?
I honestly don't know, nothing to be found on our intranet. But I don't think it's legal to have a policy on that in the Netherlands (it's considered a private matter). Also I think the attitudes towards in-office dating are bit more relaxed than in the US for example. It's still a very conservative company though....
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2): And, believe me, no matter how much you think you're keeping it secret, it's not.
I know, but, in my defense, this is "just" a first date.
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 2): Is she really your superior? Are you a direct or indirect report? How
Not really, she's a manager of a different department and responsible for the "other-part" of the company (don't want to describe the exact kind of company I work for out of careful paranoia )
Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 3): Take it slow, talk to her about it and how you are a little worried.
That's the plan. Really curious what she has to say about this....
Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 3): If she seems to find the fact that you are her junior the appealing part rather than you yourself then don't trust her too much. The same can be said for you being a "toy boy".
Although I do not know her very good yet, I don't think she's in it for the "young meat". We talked a lot about relationships, sex and such and I got the distinct impression she's "not that kind of woman"-if you know what I mean.
varigb707 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1220 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3288 times:
Go for it. Keep it a low, low profile. A secret if possible. SOme corporations frown upon their staff dating each other.
Have a good time. Cheers, lover boy
Yeah. People should do what they want, but that doesn't mean you need to inform the world about where you are sleeping. THAT is what would be inappropriate.
travelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1380 posts, RR: 5 Reply 8, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3221 times:
Quoting varigb707 (Reply 5): Go for it. Keep it a low, low profile. A secret if possible. SOme corporations frown upon their staff dating each other.
Have a good time. Cheers, lover boy
Haha ok, thanks
Quoting Flighty (Reply 7): Many happy marriages and families (or simply, good relationships) began at a workplace.
True, come to think of it, we actually have a few couples running around here. Although they are all working at the same level.
Well, we'll see how this turns out. I might post an update in a few weeks
Also, I forgot to note, one of the things that really got my blood pumping, is that this classy, corporate woman, is actually a gamer!!! A gamer with a passion for Marvel Comics, yep, this might be the jackpot people
Aloha717200 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4397 posts, RR: 17 Reply 9, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3164 times:
Quoting travelavnut (Reply 8): A gamer with a passion for Marvel Comics, yep, this might be the jackpot people
That shows that she's got a laid back side and likes to have fun, which means that she's probably worth the risk. You might have a lot of fun with this lady and who knows.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19707 posts, RR: 56 Reply 10, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3155 times:
If she's your direct superior, you are setting yourself up for problems, no doubt. If the relationship ends up badly (and you have to consider the possibility that it could), your life could end up being a living hell.
However, if she's just at a higher level in the food chain but doesn't really have anything to do with your department, then it could work. Do keep it on the DL, though - intra-company relationships can make some things very complicated.
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
tugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 4631 posts, RR: 7 Reply 11, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3131 times:
Quoting travelavnut (Reply 4): Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 3):
Take it slow, talk to her about it and how you are a little worried.
That's the plan. Really curious what she has to say about this....
Just don't dwell on the situation at all. Mention it more in passing than anything else and see what she says and if she reacts in any big way. Keep it light because that is where you are right now, this is a light and fun situation. You are just getting to know each other. If it moves beyond that then you will both likely talk about it anyways. I am sure she is aware of it too and has thought about it, so don't make the issue a block to things that might evolve.
Just enjoy it, enjoy her company, be nice to her, and be your normal self. If any paranoia becomes apparent that's when things will go down hill. Don't let anything like this become the center of conversation right now (unless it is just a fun and funny conversation, because like you, she is just having fun and enjoying your company). If you two can joke about it and move on then that is fine, if it gets "serious" then that is not good. It's like trying to do more than is appropriate on a first date (which this basically is) never get too serious.
So just relax a bit for now, be aware (mentioning it to her in just passing lets know you are aware but unworried), and be yourself as that is what she obviously likes.
Have fun you lucky dog!
Tugg
[Edited 2012-07-05 10:26:33]
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51 Reply 12, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3045 times:
As the saying goes: "You don't poop where you eat."
It's one thing to date a coworker that is not in a higher up position (and vice versa), but when you date someone who is higher up the chain of command, it could get really ugly if the relationship turns sour.
My cousin and her husband met on the job and because of his position being within the security side of the company, fraternization with employees was not allowed and they had to date on the side even though both of their bosses knew of the relationship and were putting their own jobs at risk in the process. Eventually my cousin left the company as she tired of having to hide the relationship from the higher ups even though her friends at work knew she was dating one of the corporate security guys.
I've tried dating coworkers in the past and it can make things weird between folks as a result, especially when it comes to the friends you may have at work. There were a few gals at a few of my jobs that seemed to swap boyfriends with one another every couple of months. I sure as heck didn't want to get into that sort of situation at all. Not surprisingly, when those girls finally settled down and got married, it was not to a guy they worked with.
type-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4348 posts, RR: 20 Reply 13, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3007 times:
Zip your pants up and act like a gentleman!
I have seen other people in situations like this over the years. It NEVER turns out well.
Here is how it usually works.
You date. She's happy.
You date more, she starts getting bored. You are not on her "level" and she feels she can "do better".
You date even more, she's through with you. She doesn't want the remnants of a failed relationship hanging around to remind her everyday. So you can suddenly start having on the job "performance problems". Before you know it your name comes up on the next lay off list or you get sacked for these "performance problems".
Even worse, someone higher up than you hears about this and feels it's inappropriate and the both of you get sacked.
Now, is it worth 30 minutes of recreational screwing to have all this misfortune come down upon you?
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
tugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 4631 posts, RR: 7 Reply 14, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2972 times:
Quoting type-rated (Reply 13): Now, is it worth 30 minutes of recreational screwing to have all this misfortune come down upon you?
Yep, it is.
It is completely worth it.
Because sometimes you end up meeting the greatest person, someone that you relate to and fall in love with and live happily ever after....
Now does that happen often? No.
But it can and it does happen. And more often you meet and enjoy each others company and then move on but you end up with a good friend and someone that can help you on to the next level in the company.
The secret is don't be an ass and don't "hook up" with an ass* either.
Tugg
(*Not a reference to anything homosexual or anything like that! Really! No, seriously. )
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
Rara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 1823 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2954 times:
I'd only go ahead with that if I was comfortable with working somewhere else. Since you're in IT, you can probably switch jobs rather easily. If you don't absolutely need or want to continue in your current company, then go ahead. If you, however, lack an ejection seat, give this one a miss. The chance that it'll turn out unpleasant is quite high, and then you need to move on, job-wise.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
type-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4348 posts, RR: 20 Reply 16, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2935 times:
Quoting Rara (Reply 15): I'd only go ahead with that if I was comfortable with working somewhere else. Since you're in IT, you can probably switch jobs rather easily. If you don't absolutely need or want to continue in your current company, then go ahead. If you, however, lack an ejection seat, give this one a miss. The chance that it'll turn out unpleasant is quite high, and then you need to move on, job-wise.
Excellent advice! And remember, it's always easier to get a job when you already have a job.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
YVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2087 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2840 times:
Quoting travelavnut (Thread starter): Now about a month ago me and 6 colleagues, including her, were placed in a training program
Quoting travelavnut (Reply 4): she's a manager of a different department and responsible for the "other-part" of the company
Even though she is in a different dept, you still ended up in training together, so you have to bear in mind that professionally regardless of whether things work out or not, you may have to work together still in the future. Depending what she is like and how much power over you or influence over those who do have power over you, she could make life hell.
If you proceed, one thing I would be looking out for pretty early in the relationship is if she is willing to be equals as a couple or if there will be any desire for her to be your superior in the relationship too.
I have been in this sort of situation several times, though not with a superior (vice versa actually) but often you find people at work where there is chemistry between you as you simply spend the most time with them and you just click, if its meant to be it will be. I have found often you can get a lot of what you need in a very close friends type of relationship without the full on commitment. I would not treat it as "dating" at this stage but as growing soul buddys. Often you just need a soul mate to share lifes stuff with and some common interests, without going the whole hog.
If she makes it clear she wants it to turn into more, then you have to be completely at trust with each other anyway to enter into a relationship and I would honestly share your concerns about the work relationship. You should be able to get a pretty good idea of where she is coming from by her immediate reactions and response. Any slight doubts, be very cautious about proceeding any further. As hard as it may be (TWSS... ) refrain from banging her until the relationship is well advanced. Nothing good ever comes of mere office f buddies, even if it feels good at the time
Kiwiinoz From New Zealand, joined Oct 2005, 2029 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2756 times:
I think the workplace is a great place to fall in love. You get to see people, (well, a version of them) in a much more practical setting than a bar or internet chat room.
There are risks. You have to balance the value of the relationship with the difficulties that could arise in the workplace should the relationship fail.
I am a big fan. I used to be my wife's boss. Oh how the tables have turned!!
travelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1380 posts, RR: 5 Reply 19, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2725 times:
Thanks everyone for the wildly diverging advice!
Quoting Mir (Reply 10): However, if she's just at a higher level in the food chain but doesn't really have anything to do with your department, then it could work. Do keep it on the DL, though - intra-company relationships can make some things very complicated.
She's on a higher level, but has actually nothing to do with my department. Her direct collegeau does however (and yes, I see that as a risk).
Quoting srbmod (Reply 12): It's one thing to date a coworker that is not in a higher up position (and vice versa), but when you date someone who is higher up the chain of command, it could get really ugly if the relationship turns sour.
I know, it's a risk. Although I don't have any issues with previous flings and girlfriends. In the past the ending of relationships never caused big fights or serious problems. Quite the opposite actually.
For me, I know I can probably "get over it" if things don't work out. And I do have the impression she is adult enough to do the same.
Quoting type-rated (Reply 13): Zip your pants up and act like a gentleman!
Sir, I am always a gentleman!
Quoting type-rated (Reply 13): ow, is it worth 30 minutes of recreational screwing to have all this misfortune come down upon you?
Because sometimes you end up meeting the greatest person, someone that you relate to and fall in love with and live happily ever after....
I tend to side with tugger on this one.
Quoting Rara (Reply 15): Since you're in IT, you can probably switch jobs rather easily.
True, but I'd rather keep this one though
Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 17): Even though she is in a different dept, you still ended up in training together, so you have to bear in mind that professionally regardless of whether things work out or not, you may have to work together still in the future.
Ow I know, quite sure we'll be meetings together in the future. Wouldn't happen often, but occasionally.
Small update: dinner and movie in a small moviehouse has been set for Tuesday - conversations on the Office Chat are becoming a bit steamy. I'm trying to keep it as casual as possible - but almost impossible to not react on very obvious double-sided remarks...
us330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3745 posts, RR: 14 Reply 20, posted (10 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 2704 times:
Quoting travelavnut (Reply 19): conversations on the Office Chat are becoming a bit steamy.
Keep it all business on the office chat. Stuff like that can come back and bite you in the rear end. You should probably speak up and tell her in person that you'll only talk about business using company materials/hardware.
aaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1442 posts, RR: 14 Reply 23, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2641 times:
I'll spare the details of my own sordid situation. A year ago I found myself in a similiar position as you, though the difference being that I was the superior, indirect report.
My (big) mistake was being open to seeing what happened. The consequences of my pursuing a 'summer romance' reverberate today.
The one piece of advice I'd offer is to be certain of what it is you want out of this, and be sure shes of the same ilk. Those casual, steamy conversations may be fun now.
Do yourself a favor - find out if the two of you are on the same wavelength.
With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
TSS From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 2870 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (10 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2636 times:
Previous posters have covered my feelings on this subject quite well, but I'll add a couple more thoughts:
Quoting travelavnut (Reply 19): In the past the ending of relationships never caused big fights or serious problems. Quite the opposite actually.
Then I'd say you're overdue for a huge blow-up, or at least overconfident because you haven't experienced one... yet.
Quoting travelavnut (Reply 19): For me, I know I can probably "get over it" if things don't work out. And I do have the impression she is adult enough to do the same.
Unfortunately for all of us, unstable people don't have warning labels detailing their hidden instabilities on their foreheads.
Quoting us330 (Reply 20): Quoting travelavnut (Reply 19):
conversations on the Office Chat are becoming a bit steamy.
Keep it all business on the office chat. Stuff like that can come back and bite you in the rear end. You should probably speak up and tell her in person that you'll only talk about business using company materials/hardware.
Absolutely! A good rule of thumb is never, ever, commit anything to print that you wouldn't feel comfortable reading aloud to a jury... or in this case, to the head of HR for your company.
Able to kill active threads stone dead with a single post!
25 Ps76: Hi! I think you should do it. Just to have an anetter going out with a hot chick would be world-changing! Do it for us! Many thanks, Pierre
26 dlramp4life: Don't do it. Been there done that, learned the hard way. I was a supervisor and was dating a girl that was below me in another department. It was fun
27 9MMPQ: Every potential relationship we enter has a certain risk, you need to make sense of your feelings and judge just how much risk she is worth to you. I'
28 LifelinerOne: As I see it... Just do it, go for it. Although work is nice and all, love and happiness are a lot more important in life. My wife and I met on the job
29 type-rated: Nah, more likely she felt that she had some kind of "power" dating you and when you left the company that power left too. So she dumped you. You no l
30 jetblueguy22: Although I am not exactly an expert in this my mother did meet my stepfather through their work. One thing to do is check with HR prior to anything ge
31 YVRLTN: Enjoy - only thing I will add to what I already said. Think with the matter between your ears, not between your legs... Speak for yourself....... it
32 vikkyvik: I have nothing to add, really. But I think Reply 1 pretty much summed it up:
33 elmothehobo: Go for it! Just be careful about it. No point in throwing away what could be an awesome relationship over a job that you may not be in forever. Or, as
34 Maverick623: Like fr8mech said, it's never a secret. Just don't be stupid about it. Go about it how you like, and learn from your mistakes (and successes). I thin
35 kiwiinoz: Sounds like you might have a different issue.....perhaps you need a change of workplace?
36 Flighty: It is true that "work" is not the same thing to everybody. Is an office with 8 people in it going to be awkward when 2 out of the 8 are in a relation
37 Maverick623: It's a statistical fact that most people are unhappy with their jobs, and I see and hear about it daily, and it always seems to be worse in an office
38 September11: Workplace seems to be popular spot for finding love relationship... I'm OK with that. Not my recommendation though. Dating A Superior? my opinion: avo
39 stasisLAX: My advice is don't let your companies Human Resources office find out about your dating relationship.
40 travelavnut: Not to nitpick, but she's not in my department; Well............she's actually the HR manager of the "other side" of the company... :O The only one a
41 kiwiinoz: I don't think this makes her "your superior" if she is in a different chain of authority. In which case, there is very little conflict. So enjoy!!
42 AF1624: No, but things related to feelings seldom are. Maybe. It could be even more disastrous, though, if you let it slip. Go for it. If she's not your dire
43 4holer: Do NOT impregnate her. Dome up every time.
44 type-rated: Does she work in the same building as you do even though she may be with another part of the company?
45 travelavnut: We have lift-off! Date was great, lots of talking, lots of laughing, no awkward moments and there was some kissing involved. Was clear she was taking
46 tugger: I was wondering, I remember that "the big day" was Tuesday. Sounds great! You seem to be grounded on this so just enjoy yourself and see where it goe
47 Maverick623: Sorry, those two statements don't mesh...
48 Aesma: She's in HR so she doesn't supervise his work, and in that way is not his boss. However she could probably fire him.
49 stasisLAX: Oh my, what's her advice to other senior managers on this type of situation? Whatever it is, she should follow it. Otherwise, if ANYONE else in your
50 travelavnut: They mesh if you had read my other replies; She's normally the HR manager for about half of the workers (fee-earners), the other half (support staf)
51 Delboy: Do you fancy her, if the answer is no then you are making a mistake Do you want to bed her and have a bit of fun, if the answer is yes then you are ma
52 Flighty: If a company interferes with the relationship of a boyfriend and girlfriend away from work, I would think the company should compensate them financia
53 travelavnut: Except when she's in it for the same reason Which in this case, I think she isn't. (and neither am I) Well, I'm attracted to her, and not only becaus
54 aaway: I stand by the advice I posted previously...do yourself a really big, BIG favor and find out.
55 LifelinerOne: I think there are some cultural differences here that makes people view to this matter quite different. The Netherlands, as a European socialist coun
56 aaway: Oh no....my advice wasn't rooted in practicalities. I'm thinking of the emotional impact should something go "wrong". Granted, these are consenting a
57 mandala499: I'm all for "having it off with a colleague", but acting head of HR, head of HR, or even someone in HR, is a BIG NO NO in my books... because... ...
58 travelavnut: I know, and already did express my concerns on a light hearted way. In risk of sounding naieve; I have the feeling she's not the kind of person that
59 travelavnut: It's way to early for the both of us that make this call, BUT; it's clear we're not going to end up as f*ckbuddies or just a date fling. There is som
60 mandala499: Other than the skepticism already posted... as it seems that you've decided to go ahead with it.. enjoy it! And... errr...
61 travelavnut: Hahaha I KNOW!! Dude, I really, REALLY want to post a pic. But with search engines that can search for related pictures it's just too damn risky. Don'
62 4holer: And there's what the entire issue boils down to. Good that you recognize that fact. I can't argue with it. Have at it sir, and good luck.
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But I think I really don't care, she's higher in function yes, but in conversation we're equal. Don't know (yet) how things in bed would be haha
No, seriously. 
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