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Romney, The GOP, And "Obamacare"  
User currently offlineTecumsehSherman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3246 times:

Somebody help me with this one. It's no secret that Romney and the Republicans are dead-set against President Obama's Health Care law, and angry over the USSC's decision to uphold it.

But look a bit deeper into the history of the Individual Mandate, and the stance Republicans have had over the years on the issue.

In 1989, the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think-tank, came out with a plan that, in essence, was quite similar to Obama's plan-and, in fairness, to Romney's Massachusetts plan.

http://healthcarereform.procon.org/s..._health_care_for_all_americans.pdf


In it, the Heritage Foundation proposal states, and I quote "The plan would treat all health care benefits provided by the employer as taxable income to the employee." (My italics added).

Now, to me, that sounds like the Individual Mandate that is in the President's program, and the Supreme Court said it was a tax in it's ruling.

Couple that with the fact that Romney authored a similar health care initiative in Massachusetts.

And now, in both cases, Romney and the GOP are against the very thing that they at one time proposed.

Is this a change in conservative philosophy since 1989, or is this, as I fear, simply a case of "If Obama is for it, we're against it"? And further, how can Romney be taken seriously on this issue when he's arguing against the very plan he enacted in his home state?

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3218 times:

Do the Tea Party people know your address ? I'd hide.  

Whatever the Heritage Institute may have said, or Romney may have done, in the past, doesn't count. Because that was then. This is now. The GOP and supporters will say anything to discredit Obama's health care act. It doesn't even have to be true.

It now seems they have more $$$ than Obama to play with, so you know where this is going: play the same message over and over again until something sinks in. This was tried, to some short term success, in Germany, way back when. And it's the same mentality, as far as I'm concerned.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3053 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3207 times:

Quoting TecumsehSherman (Thread starter):
And now, in both cases, Romney and the GOP are against the very thing that they at one time proposed.

Is this a change in conservative philosophy since 1989, or is this, as I fear, simply a case of "If Obama is for it, we're against it"? And further, how can Romney be taken seriously on this issue when he's arguing against the very plan he enacted in his home state?

Remember that they're selling to the GOP and some independent voters one mantra and one mantra only: Obama as a one term president. So even if Obama came in favor of tax cuts, restrict abortion, declare that English be the national (and only) language, Christianity be the official religion, export all immigrants, etc., the GOP would still be against him simply because he's:
1. A Democrat
2. A black president (oh yes, don't think that people don't resent having a black president)
3. A person with a not so American name and diverse background (see birthers).

This is why I'm loving this campaign season so far: Mitt Romney is against the very thing he enacted as governor and that his party tried to enact once in the past. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised that IF Romney wins the GOP repeals Obamacare and replaces it with the same thing but under a different name. Romney (and the GOP as well) has more flipflops than a house of pancakes.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3202 times:

One argument I've heard occasionally is that Romney's plan was for a state, and Obama's is for the country. Note also that another, more vociferous argument made by the right to Obama's plan is that it violates individual rights. Personally I don't hold much stock in the first argument by dint of the second, because if in fact rights are rights, then it shouldn't matter who's infringing upon those rights.

User currently offlineTecumsehSherman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3199 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):
2. A black president (oh yes, don't think that people don't resent having a black president)
3. A person with a not so American name and diverse background (see birthers).

I think people underrate, not overrate, those two points. I really do. The nation's demographics are changing rapidly. White births are no longer above 50% in the U.S.; by 2040, the white population will make up less than 50% of the population. And that scares a lot of conservative whites. I think in their mind, an Obama-a black man with a non-traditional name, was something that they were thinking would happen 30 or 40 years from now, not in 2008.

And the fact that when you tell some conservatives that, they get madder than hell, tells me you hit a nerve when you bring it up.

It's not an issue with all conservatives, but with a majority of them.

Oh, I am white, and that future doesn't bother me. I know why it bothers them, but I don't get it.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7873 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3192 times:

Quoting TecumsehSherman (Reply 4):
Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 2):
2. A black president (oh yes, don't think that people don't resent having a black president)
3. A person with a not so American name and diverse background (see birthers).

I think people underrate, not overrate, those two points. I really do.

It's also overrused obnoxiously in inappropriate circumstances where no one is racist... very annoying. Not saying there aren't racists but it pisses me off when someone will just slip that into any conversation automatically... get a logical argument



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineTecumsehSherman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3187 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
It's also overrused obnoxiously in inappropriate circumstances where no one is racist... very annoying. Not saying there aren't racists but it pisses me off when someone will just slip that into any conversation automatically... get a logical argument

Racism is illogical to begin with, and sometimes logic doesn't suffice. In this case, when talking about many conservatives, it is quite literally a true statement?

Remember all the racists signs that showed up at Tea Bagger rallies back in '08? How about all the alleged "foot in mouth" statements since the President took office, where conservative officeholders have invoked racists words and images?

That's a sure sign that it's a problem in the GOP.

But back to the point. How can anyone take Romney and the GOP seriously when they're bucking positions that they've held for so long, simply because the other guy used it successfully? We learned in '04, with the Kerry campaign, that you can't win simply by saying "anyone but -----". You have to be FOR something.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7873 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3184 times:

Quoting TecumsehSherman (Reply 6):
Tea Bagger

Stopped reading at this point. Not a Tea Party member but really, shy away from name calling



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineTecumsehSherman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3181 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
Stopped reading at this point. Not a Tea Party member but really, shy away from name calling

Tea Bagger bothers you. OK, fine. It's pretty harmful but against some things those people have called the President. But it shouldn't stop any conversation on a relevant topic.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7873 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3176 times:

Quoting TecumsehSherman (Reply 8):
Tea Bagger bothers you.

Doesn't bother me personally but it's along the lines of me talking about the President and slipping in that he's a "socialist..." people stop taking me seriously and it just detracts from the conversation

Quoting TecumsehSherman (Reply 8):
It's pretty harmful but against some things those people have called the President.
All Tea Party members? That's generalization. Plus, does that mean we should resort to name calling because they do?

Quoting TecumsehSherman (Reply 8):
But it shouldn't stop any conversation on a relevant topic.

But that's what happens when name calling goes around. Happens with the other side too.

But anyway, on topic, I wouldn't even mind so much if the GOP's positions radically changed as long as they had a viable plan to go along with the repeal. We will see if the public buys all that in November...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineTecumsehSherman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3169 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 9):

But anyway, on topic, I wouldn't even mind so much if the GOP's positions radically changed as long as they had a viable plan to go along with the repeal. We will see if the public buys all that in November...

I was watching Jon Stewart the night of the USSC decision, and Romney pretty much said he was for most everything in the plan the president has. That's why I don't understand his problem with it.

But if he does have something different, he should spell it out, and do it now. Because, right now, his campaign is fumbling and bumbling this one, and it's hurting his image. Bring out a plan of your own, Mitt, let the American people decide.

If he doesn't, the public won't just buy it on faith that he has a solution.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7873 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3116 times:

Quoting TecumsehSherman (Reply 10):
I was watching Jon Stewart the night of the USSC decision, and Romney pretty much said he was for most everything in the plan the president has. That's why I don't understand his problem with it.

Actually I think I saw an article where most citizens agreed with the ACA... the notable exception (and where I think Romney disagrees mostly with nowadays) is the individual mandate. It's a tough decision, I try and stay in the center and I value personal liberty in most cases, so should we force people to buy this insurance? I don't like forcing anything really.

Kinda off topic, but I think most people would agree with a tax/mandatory fee/whatever you want to call it that EVERYONE needs to buy that covers life threatening injuries/life and limb kinda cases... basically how the ER works now where anyone can go in, insurance or not. That way you don't have people dying in the streets or going bankrupt over an illness yet it allows freedom to purchase insurance or not for routine visits and all. Might be some kinks, but that sounds like a good compromise and more constitutional for the people that are questioning the individual mandate (despite the SCOTUS ruling on it)



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13073 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3115 times:

It seems to me that Romney is adjusting his opinion to get the votes and money from the most vocal fiscal conservative and 'tea party' voters. Many may not understand a 'mandate' or 'penalty' but they sure don't want to pay more and indeed want less taxes. SCOTUS C.J. Roberts declared the penalty a 'tax', something Congress can vote for and now vote against, Republicans hate any new/expanded taxes at the core beliefs and something that Romney can call a tax that Obama created and rise to pay for the program.

User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7873 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3109 times:

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 12):
It seems to me that Romney is adjusting his opinion to get the votes and money from the most vocal fiscal conservative and 'tea party' voters.

Maybe I'm being faceus, but maybe Romney was being more right-leaning during the primaries and now that he is the nominee, he can afford to be more moderate. Who was it on this board that said it when Romney got the nomination...? "And thus begins the journey to the center..." Something about becoming more moderate... may be true



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3106 times:

I agree that Romney changes his posture to fit the mood at the time. I really cannot stand him. Problem is I hate Holder and others Obama nominated more. So he will get my vote even though I cant stand him. As far as the heath care plan Obama made a few mistakes he tried to ram 3000 pages of it down our throats when no one even read it. Mistake number one. I will admit a few things of it are popular. Maybe they can keep the popular things and modify it. If Romney gets in he will have to do that. Since he did that in Mass anyway I think he would be open to it. Sorry but Obama does not get my vote as long as he keeps Holder and Napolitano on board. I think he knows at least Holder is a drain on his campaign and he kept him so be it.


NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineTecumsehSherman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3087 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 11):
I try and stay in the center and I value personal liberty in most cases, so should we force people to buy this insurance?

We already do that. State's force people to buy auto insurance and home owners insurance. Then why the problem with heath insurance?

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 12):
SCOTUS C.J. Roberts declared the penalty a 'tax', something Congress can vote for and now vote against,

They'll need a super-majority in the Senate to over-ride a Presidential Veto on this one, if Obama does win a 2nd term. And that's unlikely. Democrats aren't going to over-ride it.

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 12):
Republicans hate any new/expanded taxes at the core beliefs

Yes, even if it bankrupts the country. They didn't seem to mind when Reagan raised taxes something like 11 times.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):

Maybe I'm being faceus, but maybe Romney was being more right-leaning during the primaries and now that he is the nominee, he can afford to be more moderate.

He's in a bind on this, and on many issues. The far-right base of the GOP isn't thrilled with his upcoming nomination, even though he has pandered way to the right. If he goes back to the center, he'll alienate them, and also be accused of flip-flopping once again on the issue.

He's almost in a no-win situation on this issue, and many others, because he's painted himself into a right-wing corner.

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 14):
Maybe they can keep the popular things and modify it.

Which I think will happen in Obama's second term, and it's what the GOP should be pushing, instead of the insanity and outright confusion that would be caused by just repealing the whole thing. Romney's plan was similar, so he can't hate it that much.


User currently offlinestratosphere From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1651 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3075 times:

Quoting TecumsehSherman (Reply 15):
Which I think will happen in Obama's second term, and it's what the GOP should be pushing, instead of the insanity and outright confusion that would be caused by just repealing the whole thing. Romney's plan was similar, so he can't hate it that much.

Oh s much as I hate Romney I hate an Obama second term even worse.



NWA THE TRUE EVIL EMPIRE
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11576 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3068 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 5):
It's also overrused obnoxiously in inappropriate circumstances where no one is racist...

Why, then, did no one, NOT ONE PERSON, bat an eye when McCain was nominated for president? Old white man born in Panama with a Western name? If it does not bother anyone, then no one should be bothered by a half-black (that means half-white) man born in the United States to an American mother. Add to that, the fact that he had boot straps to pull himself up by and became a Constitutional scholar. Travesty!!

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 16):
s much as I hate Romney I hate an Obama second term even worse.

Lower unemployment rates and stability. Oh, the horror!!

Back on topic: I have been trying to figure out why the right hates Romneycare so much. They were for it before they were against. But, like Mitch McConnell proudly declared: They want to make him a one-term president. That is their only goal. They don't want jobs or lower the deficit or keep terrorists out. They just want the black guy with the foreign name out of the White House.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3064 times:

Quoting stratosphere (Reply 14):
As far as the heath care plan Obama made a few mistakes he tried to ram 3000 pages of it down our throats when no one even read it.

It shouldn't be surprising, or even especially worrisome, that a bill addressing a hydra-headed issue such as health care is long. And the process of passage took months, with many amendments to please various people (remember Bart Stupak?)


User currently offlinecat3dual From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3009 times:

Any dirt on Romney or the Heritage Foundation's record is of no consequence today, unfortunately. Even if we could definitively prove that Willard performed an abortion on the fetus of Jesus Christ himself, rank and file conservatives have been programmed for three years that Obama must be a one term President and as such must be granted as few victories as humanly possible at any cost.

Trust that these people believe every problem we have as a nation is Obama's fault. As far as they are concerned, the world started 3.5 years ago and no events occurred prior to that; even the mention that any events occurred before 1/20/2009 is met with a defense that eludes to some sort of undignified blasphemy.

As of now, we have a CEO backed by billions in the private sector's first attempt at a hostile takeover of Washington vs. the guy they have sabotaged as often as possible. If we embark on yet another Presidency so terrible that the right wing needs to establish complex mental blocks in order to maintain their allegiance, we are screwed.

Obama is not perfect by any means but a failed governor whose cronies consist of big business' most elite is the type of person the founding fathers railed against running this nation. Big business have enough purchasing power in Washington and it needs to be scaled back, not ramped up.

If Romney is elected, we'd be lucky he left us like he left MA, with a 65% disapproval rating and a lot of pissed off and broke citizens; if we are unlucky we usher in a new age of Inverse Fascism (where corporations control the government) with caste system tendencies.

[Edited 2012-07-06 08:25:23]

User currently offlineTecumsehSherman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2988 times:

Quoting cat3dual (Reply 19):

Fantastic post. The only comforting thing is that even with all this corporate money rolling in, Romney's chances of winning are still very slim. There is only a handful of battleground states. Romney would have to win all of them to be elected, and he's not going to win them all. The President has a better ground game than Romney, despite the latter's corporate millions.

Wonder what Mitt will do for a living after he loses this time?


User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6575 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2984 times:
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Quoting Newark727 (Reply 3):
One argument I've heard occasionally is that Romney's plan was for a state, and Obama's is for the country.

Which is the silliest argument.

Quoting TecumsehSherman (Reply 20):
Romney's chances of winning are still very slim.

Unfortunately, i think that his chances are much better than "slim"

Quoting TecumsehSherman (Reply 20):

Wonder what Mitt will do for a living after he loses this time?

Maybe he can retire breeding Olympic Dressage horses.. you know.. like the rest of America does.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6603 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2973 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 11):
It's a tough decision, I try and stay in the center and I value personal liberty in most cases, so should we force people to buy this insurance?

The funny thing to me in this whole debate is that it's a total flip-flop on the idea of taking personal responsibility. Normally, conservatives very strongly embrace people taking responsibility for their lives. In this case, Obamacare requires people to be responsible and get health insurance. However, conservatives seem to abhor this and rather have us stay with the current system where tens of millions of people freeload by using ER services and never paying for them. Guess who then gets the bill?

So in reality, the current system is a total welfare system that encourages people to freeload and not be responsible. This is why back in the late 80's conservative places like Heritage Foundation embraced the idea of the mandate.


User currently offlineTecumsehSherman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2965 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 21):
.

Quoting TecumsehSherman (Reply 20):
Romney's chances of winning are still very slim.

Unfortunately, i think that his chances are much better than "slim"

I disagree. If you look at any electoral map right now, there's very few states in play: Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, Florida, Virginia, NC and Colorado.

Romney would have to win all of them, and the chances of that happening aren't good. In Ohio, you have a very unpopular Governor who has lit a fire under liberals; in Wisconsin, even though Walker won his recall, most of those people said they would vote for Obama; Romney's opposition to the auto bailout is going to cost him Michigan.

So he's got problems. Obama is going to pound him in Michigan on the auto bailout, which probably saved thousands of Michigan jobs; Obama is going to tie him to John Kasich in Ohio, and Walker in Wisconsin. Virginia is in play, but is turning into a Blue state with each passing year. He's even struggling in North Carolina, even as that state passed an anti-gay marriage amendment.

He can win Ohio and Florida, and still not win the election.

Unless the economy collapses, and that's not likely to happen, as most indicators are still slowly improving, he's going to be hard-pressed to win all the toss-ups.


User currently offlineTecumsehSherman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2964 times:

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
So in reality, the current system is a total welfare system that encourages people to freeload and not be responsible. This is why back in the late 80's conservative places like Heritage Foundation embraced the idea of the mandate.

So, the real reason, in the end, they're against it, is because the black guy with the funny name got it passed? I guess that answers my original question.

The Republicans haven't learned the lesson from '04: you can't win simply by being against someone.


25 DocLightning : Because otherwise the whole system doesn't work. It's absolutely required or the system cannot work. If you can literally buy health insurance on the
26 Post contains images ER757 : Exactly! Going back to the old status quo isn't going to cut it. Tell us how you are going to fix the stuff in the current plan that's bad, save the
27 FlyPNS1 : Given the current economy, they might be able to pull it off this time. Granted, they'll quickly implode once in office.
28 wingman : Again the utter hypocrisy, stupidity, and outright control of our electoral process by the mdeia and corporate money is simply laughable. The United S
29 cat3dual : While I certainly agree with your assessment of the situation, know that we aren't all stupid. Avoid gross generalizations and perhaps your message w
30 TecumsehSherman : Come the fall, the question will be boiled down to this: do you want to take a chance on Romney, and bring back basically the same policies that near
31 DeltaMD90 : I didn't say there weren't racists, I just said the race thing is way overused. If we're talking about birthers then yeah, racism definitely comes in
32 Post contains images TecumsehSherman : In many cases, yes. But how can one reconcile the fact that the GOP, as almost a whole, is now vehemently against policies that THEY THEMSELVES have
33 DeltaMD90 : I don't know, neither do you. It's not automatic racism. Again, there are racists, but I see the race card being pulled out wayyyy too much. How come
34 cat3dual : Don't think there's racism? Why, then, does GOP darling Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal not use his real name, Piyush? I'll tell you why. Because the
35 TecumsehSherman : I think the comparison is far-fetched. Willard may not be a perfectly normal name, but it is an Anglo-Saxon name. Hussein is an Arabic/Islamic name i
36 DocLightning : So then the only people paying for insurance are those with chronic conditions. Great, a "tax" on the chronically ill! Fantastic! When you, MD90, a h
37 PPVRA : Romney has defended RomneyCare on states rights grounds. It's a legitimate argument and he is correct about it. However, it is still hypocritical for
38 DeltaMD90 : I don't really think I'm getting anywhere, I never once denied any racism, I just said the race card is used too much and also the people calling Rom
39 Post contains images Ken777 : McCain was going on that track also - with a $6,000 per family handout. Employer provided nanny care has turned into a bit of a freak. It is a tax fr
40 mdsh00 : Too bad this forum doesn't have a "Like" button. Spot on. It's just so appalling how many people are ripping this whole health care business (includi
41 DeltaMD90 : Sigh... just because one side does it doesn't make it right for the other side to do it. Couldn't you say that Tea Party members say "socialists" or
42 mt99 : And the Supreme Court said that it IS constitutional and can be applied throughout the US as well. So its not no longer a question of it being a righ
43 TecumsehSherman : First off, State's Rights, especially the way conservatives want to define it, died on April 9th, 1865, when Lee surrendered to Grant. The idea that
44 L-188 : Actually Morgan Freeman is on record as saying Obama isn't black because his mama was white..... The vast majory of which where laters shows to have
45 TecumsehSherman : Tell me, who has held up any progress on economic and jobs legislation since Obama took office? The Republican Party? Obama hasn't held anything up.
46 L-188 : Would those be the same conservaties that didn't have control of the congress the last two years of bushes term and the first two years of Obama? Wou
47 Post contains images Ken777 : But he keeps forgetting that he brought in a mandatory insurance system. And his mandate was a pretty hefty tax increase, if we are to believe the GO
48 DeltaMD90 : Well be the bigger man and don't name call, even if they do... that's a 1st grader concept. I'm guessing part of the reason T** B****** gets deleted
49 DocLightning : Then you are talking about a high-deductible plan. Those already exist. But once that ER visit winds up being a chronic condition, then you are going
50 einsteinboricua : You are forgetting one single piece in the puzzle: all the bills (if any are worth mentioning) that pass the House always have a controversial issue
51 seb146 : If the right wing hates government run health care, why not cancel VA and stop telling women they can not have abortions? Better yet: Why not have eve
52 PPVRA : Who here really believes in this USSC decision? To me, this decision was based on some strategizing judge rather than on the actual law. Well that's
53 Post contains images ATTart :
54 PPVRA : Republicans are against charity? News to me. . .
55 seb146 : Where in the post was it said the right-wingers are against charity? May I also remind everyone that Jesus was a dark-skinned man who never married o
56 TecumsehSherman : We aren't talking about Bush's term, are we? The Dems have had a razor-thin control of the Senate, but not enough to kill most fillabusters in that C
57 PPVRA : That was the whole point of the post. . . I guess they aren't that racist, after all! I mean they love the man. (ps: Jesus was also a peacenik - prea
58 windy95 : How is taxing employer provided health care like the individual mandate? They are not even close in comparison. Romney is not my candidate. But with
59 TecumsehSherman : That's so lame. The so-called "Great Communicator", the man who would be called a RINO today by you and other conservatives, Ronald Reagan, used a te
60 Post contains links ATTart : Let us not forget the labels that the far right call the moderate Reps RINOS.. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1523454/posts I am an Independ
61 seb146 : These are the same people who blame Obama for high gas prices, but, under W said prices were fine because it was private corporations just trying to
62 Ken777 : Any program that does not provide a public option for competitive purposes will simply drive up costs. Don't say that too loud - the hard right is lo
63 DeltaMD90 : The court ruled that the ACA is Constitutional... not that the ACA must exist... if the GOP is all high strung about it they should stop fighting the
64 windy95 : Please show me where Jesus ask's for a third party to collect from other citizens a tax at the tip of a spear to provide for the needy or to redistri
65 DeltaMD90 : What I find kind of funny is many of the people that are yelling at conservatives to just accept the ruling are the ones that thought it was a great i
66 einsteinboricua : And viceversa. When Citizens United came out, we were told to suck it up, but now that Obamacare was upheld, those same ones that said to suck it up
67 DeltaMD90 : Yeah, I agree. Just trying to put some people in the others' shoes, and also to remind the other side that the court isn't always made up of "liberal
68 Ken777 : Not really. It's how most Justices get to the Court. The issue is who will be the President making the nominations. Some nominations have been pretty
69 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Yes, hopefully both sides can see it this way, instead of one side always complaining. Just imagine if Newt Gingrich was still in the race... remembe
70 PPVRA : Sounds like a good argument. . . unless you actually know tax law. Reality is, those credits are almost completely meaningless.
71 windy95 : For me I do not believe that any of these decisions that are being made for 300+ million people should come down to the vote of 1 justice who is not
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