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Any Luck Beating Red Light Camera Ticket? Cali  
User currently onlinemikeology From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1493 times:

As the title states. Got one a few weeks back. Looking at the print out light had turned red for 0.23 seconds. This was making a right hand turn in a turn right only lane. Right turn was ok on red. No sign posting it wasn't. Worth fighting or am I SOL? I would think that there should be some leway. I mean 0.23 seconds? Anyways your inpuit is appreciated

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1469 times:

Quoting mikeology (Thread starter):
As the title states. Got one a few weeks back. Looking at the print out light had turned red for 0.23 seconds. This was making a right hand turn in a turn right only lane. Right turn was ok on red. No sign posting it wasn't. Worth fighting or am I SOL? I would think that there should be some leway. I mean 0.23 seconds? Anyways your inpuit is appreciated

You can absolutely beat the ticket. The way you describe it you should be able to beat it administratively before the "due date" for the fee/fine/bond. If it is a picture of you turning right on a red and it is legal it can be administratively dismissed. However if that doesn't happen you can still fight in court on it, though you will have to have posted the bond/fine.
I am sure others more lawyerly than I can give you more info But I know I have had a ticket administratively dismissed before in Cal when I sent in documentation (photo's, written letter) on why I wasn't "at fault".

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21879 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1451 times:

Quoting mikeology (Thread starter):
I mean 0.23 seconds?

They want your money. That's the crux of the matter here.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineajd1992 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1433 times:

0.23 seconds is pathetic although if there was no sign prohibiting it then you wouldn't know different. Fight it although I'm not a lawyer or an expert on Cali law.

User currently offlinemham001 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3731 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1418 times:

I was reading somewhere that in at least one municipality, there were no repercussions from just ignoring it, but few know that and thats they way they like it. Something about because it is administered through a private company and technicalities.

User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 6961 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 1418 times:

I find it strange that there would be a camera if it was legal to turn right.

Here it's illegal except when there is a special orange arrow allowing it, and I've never seen a camera at such crossings yet.

I ran a very orange (yellow) light with a camera two weeks ago (ripe, as we say in French) and was sure I'd get a ticket, but I didn't.

Last time I ran one, on the same street, it's cops that caught me ! But they were looking for criminals so let me go.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5659 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1396 times:

Did you stop before making the right turn or did you just roll right through? Unless there was a green arrow controlling your turn, you should have made a full stop before starting your turn.

You can fight it, and you may get off, but, if you didn't stop before turning, you are guilty.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7982 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1384 times:

Don't quote me and I wouldn't try it, but I'm pretty sure you can ignore most of these red light tickets. It's too much money to go looking for people who don't pay. If you get pulled over in that jurisdiction later though I think you're in trouble. That's how I *think* it goes. I'd just try and fight it personally


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5740 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1379 times:

Does the picture clearly show your face?

Does the ticket say "Notice of Traffic Violation"?

Does the ticket have court information on it?


If the answer is no to all three, it's not a real ticket. Throw it out.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently onlinemikeology From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1376 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 6):
Did you stop before making the right turn or did you just roll right through? Unless there was a green arrow controlling your turn, you should have made a full stop before starting your turn.

You can fight it, and you may get off, but, if you didn't stop before turning, you are guilty.

It was yellow when starting the turn thus the photo at 0.23 seconds


User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5659 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1347 times:

Quoting mikeology (Reply 9):
It was yellow when starting the turn thus the photo at 0.23 seconds

But, you were in the intersection when the light was red.

You can fight it, but recall from driving school, that a yellow light does not mean 'go faster', it means the light is about to change to red and to stop if you can do so safely or proceed with caution.

I was taught that if you can stop without slamming on the brakes, you had to stop.

.23 seconds...you can probably beat it.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7982 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1346 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
But, you were in the intersection when the light was red.

I think it varies state to state. Some states just require you to get part of your vehicle past the white line. Either that or one of my criminal justice teachers told me wrong!



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineredrooster3 From United States of America, joined Oct 2010, 229 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1337 times:

I have been told by a police officer, if your back wheels are pass the white line once it turns red, then you are fine. But 0.23 seconds is worth fighting over. I would probably call up cali law though. Those photo enforced lights are VERY sensitive.


The only thing you should change about a woman is her last name.
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 10350 posts, RR: 26
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1307 times:

I believe there has been a court case(s?) regarding the legality of red light cameras in CA. From what I heard, the state was going to be removing them, and if you got a ticket and fought it, you stood a very good chance of winning.

I don't know how accurate all that is. But red light tickets generally come from a private company, I think, and that was at least partly the crux of the matter.



How can I be an admiral without my cap??!
User currently offlinemmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 1289 times:

Request the maintenance history of the light in question. Also go time the actual light...iirc; per DoT laws a light should be yellow for a period "> 3 seconds" before turning red.


ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
User currently offlinescrubbsywg From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 1495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1264 times:

hmmm, the cameras here take two pictures. one showing you crossing the line when the light is red(they would also give the time the light was red-in this case 0.23s.) and the other showing you fully in the intersection. Is this not the case elsewhere?

Everyone says 0.23s is nothing but there was an amber light for likely 4-6s before this. If i were the judge, i would just ask why you kept going when the light was amber. The fact you are making a right turn doesn't matter. Even if right turns on red are allowed, you have to stop before making the turn.


User currently offlinedarthluke12694 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1258 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 5):
I find it strange that there would be a camera if it was legal to turn right.

Here in Tennessee, there are some red light cameras (recently outlawed in my city) and there is a sign pointing specifically where to stop on red (since you have to come to a complete stop anyway on red, I don't know if it's that way in France, or even in all of the states in the U.S.), and then you are allowed to go. But even then it still scares me that it will think I'm running a red light.


User currently offlinebristolflyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1238 times:

I had the exact same situation in Phoenix. The camera went off because I hadn't stopped before turning right (I had slowed right down but not come to an actual stop). I thought about trying to fight it but decided it was best to take the high road and admit responsibility. A couple of weeks later I got a call from a cop who said that he had reviewed the video and it was such a close call that they were going to drop it. I thanked him and that was that.

I felt like I had been rewarded for my honesty. Quite often cops (and the people they ticket) feel that it's a personal fight and if you start to dig your heals in then they will fight back.

It's up to you what you do, but it seems like you broke the law so if I were you I'd admit it and hopefully the cop will give you some leeway.



Fortune favours the brave
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5740 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1166 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):

But, you were in the intersection when the light was red.

In the vast majority of states, as long as your car (which part varies) is in the intersection before the red, you're good.

Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 13):
I believe there has been a court case(s?) regarding the legality of red light cameras in CA. From what I heard, the state was going to be removing them, and if you got a ticket and fought it, you stood a very good chance of winning.

I don't know how accurate all that is. But red light tickets generally come from a private company, I think, and that was at least partly the crux of the matter.

I believe the case was about being coerced into naming the driver of the vehicle if it wasn't you (via a snitch "ticket", which was not really a ticket at all).

Note that the case was only for red light cameras in CA, as that is a criminal violation which requires a defendant be named. Regular speed cameras elsewhere are civil citations, and can be used to suspend the vehicle's registration (like a parking ticket).



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinebristolflyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1117 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
a yellow light does not mean 'go faster', it means the light is about to change to red and to stop if you can do so safely or proceed with caution.

That's the point right there - the red may only be on for 0.23 secs but the yellow had been on for probably 3-5 secs before that.



Fortune favours the brave
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