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ID Laws...am I Missing Something?  
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3379 posts, RR: 8
Posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3738 times:

It's no secret that many states that have turned red have been passing laws to require ID to vote. Maybe it's because back home everyone is required to present a voter's card (any ID won't do, it HAS to be the electoral card), but I fail to see why this is bad. Am I missing something that this has become an issue? And please, don't come with it's just X party doing as it pleases...there has to be a reason.

Of course, PA's senate raises a very interesting view as to why they want voter IDs and I have to wonder if this is really what all the states want...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuOT1bRYdK8

But is there something wrong with getting an ID and going to vote? I don't see why that is a turn off to go to the polls...


"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
62 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26175 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3708 times:

Imo there is absolutely nothing wrong with having an ID and proving who you are to vote.

After all we are required so show ID to ---

Open a bank account
Buy alcohol
Buy tobbaco
Served at a bar
Register at College
Get a drivers license or other government ID
Cash welfare checks
Get a fishing license
Check-in and travel at the airport
Applying for a job
Get a library card
Obtaining a on-street parking pass
Taking the ACT/SAT exams for college
Buying a car
Applying for government benefits (eg social secuirty, medicare)
Taking professional exams like CPA, law, etc.
Renting a home
Buying a house
Seeing a doctor
......................

Frankly this should be a non-partisan debate. Having a simple control to ensure the validity of the process works in a host of other areas in life, so protecting something as key as voting is a no brainer to me.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3693 times:

Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I fail to see why this is bad.

Same here. When I first heard about the issue my reaction was "you don't have to now!?"

And the whole conspiracy thing is moot in my state since elderly, disabled, and homeless people get cards for free. And if you're not in one of those groups, the cost is all of $20. I suspect other states are similar.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3379 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3689 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2):
Quoting einsteinboricua (Thread starter):
I fail to see why this is bad.

Same here. When I first heard about the issue my reaction was "you don't have to now!?"

And the whole conspiracy thing is moot in my state since elderly, disabled, and homeless people get cards for free. And if you're not in one of those groups, the cost is all of $20. I suspect other states are similar.

I actually thought you HAD to present a specific ID. Back in PR, there's no such thing as presenting your license or passport: you need to get an electoral card which remains active for as long as you are an active voter. I find the system fair: it ensures that only registered voters to go out and vote.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Imo there is absolutely nothing wrong with having an ID and proving who you are to vote.

Exactly...and many people already have an ID whether it's their driver's license or a passport. Many states, IIRC, will simply ask the voter to present it (some might want an official state-issued ID, while others I suppose will be fine with any picture ID).

[Edited 2012-07-13 10:25:59]


"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently onlinembmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3672 times:

I fail to see the need for requiring voters to present IDs. Why? For what purpose?

Even Republicans, after conducting several exhaustive studies, have failed to demonstrate any major sort of voter fraud over the past twenty years.

So what is the purpose of requiring IDs? We know for certain it discourages people from voting, especially elderly who often don't have means to travel to government offices to obtain voter ID and poor people who don't have money to register for ID.

Again, what is the point of requiring ID?


User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3379 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3662 times:

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 5):
Again, what is the point of requiring ID?

Maybe ensuring the lowest fraud percentage. There was a report that in Florida an alien resident actually voted in the elections...if these are the people for whom the Democrats are against the law, then I'm sorry but I cross party lines on this issue and side with Republicans. I don't think Russian officials would be happy if I went and voted in their elections without being officially registered to vote, even if I vote for the governing party. I don't see why the same cannot be applied back here.



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5660 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3654 times:

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 5):
Again, what is the point of requiring ID?

At the point of registration: in order to prove that the person registering to vote is indeed the person who is registering and that person is indeed eligible to vote.

At the poll: in order to prove that the person presenting himself at the poll is indeed the person registered to vote.

Simple, right?



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently onlinembmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3612 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 7):
Simple, right?

There is little to no fraud. So what's the point of making citizens jump through yet another hoop?


User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5660 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3583 times:

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 8):
So what's the point of making citizens jump through yet another hoop?

Why do you carry a drivers' license?
Why do you provide ID when making a credit card purchase?
Why do you provide ID when you present your medical insurance card?
When you cash a check?
When you open a bank account?
When you get your mail from the post office?
When you enter certain government buildings?
When you apply for a job?
When you apply for SSI benefits?
When you apply for SNAP?
When you apply for a loan?
When you enroll in school?
When you get on an aircraft?
When you register a vehicle?
When you obtain insurance?
When you purchase a firearm?
When you pick up a perscription, especially a Schedule II or III drug?
When you buy alcohol?
When you make a transaction at a bank?

Heck, you need ID to get certain other ID's

You provide identification to prove that you are who and what you say you are. Really, that simple. It's not a hoop. The vast majority of people already have an ID in order to function in society. Those that don't, should be provided one free of cost.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6678 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3560 times:
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Quoting fr8mech (Reply 8):
Those that don't, should be provided one free of cost.

And increase the deficit?



Step into my office, baby
User currently onlinembmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3559 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 8):
Why do you carry a drivers' license?
Why do you provide ID when making a credit card purchase?.....

I could use this same argument to require an ID to cross the street, to get my hair dyed, to buy chewing gum.

It's a weak argument.

In each of the examples you cited, there is a history behind why they became requirements, most often involving fraud or other deception. A required ID with credit card is due to a history of credit card fraud, for example.

But in the case of voter ID, there is virtually no fraud.

So we're on a nationwide campaign to impose ID laws for fraud that hasn't happened, that will most likely discourage many people from voting; the very people who are most likely to vote for a Democratic candidate, by the way.

Oh, those noble Republicans!

It's disingenuous to the core.


User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3157 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3545 times:

I would be OK with voter ID if my preference for election procedures would be enacted:

paper ballots, or electronic ones that provide a paper receipt
voting over an entire week, or perhaps an entire 3-day weekend, including some days polls open 24 hours
cessation of active campaigning during that voting period
no calling of races prior to polls closing, moratorium on exit polling
polls closing at same time nationally, if they're open until 7pm in Hawaii, they have to be open 1am on the East Coast (and open at 1am in Hawaii if they open at 7am on the East Coast, that way everyone gets their shot at late night or early morning voting).

For all that, I think we'd need a free voter registration card (if a passport or drivers license was unavailable) to keep track of who voted. It would be bar-coded for recognition, to avoid repeat voting. Maybe the Post Office could do it, that way they could stay open on Saturdays.  

-Rampart


User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Frankly this should be a non-partisan debate. Having a simple control to ensure the validity of the process works in a host of other areas in life, so protecting something as key as voting is a no brainer to me.

To me it is non-partisan, I am a Republican and I do not agree with the concept of presenting an ID at the polls. WHen you register sure. At the polls no, it adds no layer of security that will impact anythi8gn more that actually proper controls on the voting process. Will it impact me if it is implemented? No. Could there be some level of fraud? perhaps but research has shown it to be virtually non-existent and not favoring any one direction (party).

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 3):
I actually thought you HAD to present a specific ID. Back in PR, there's no such thing as presenting your license or passport: you need to get an electoral card which remains active for as long as you are an active voter. I find the system fair: it ensures that only registered voters to go out and vote.

Different states have different rules, there is no standard on the federal level.

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 4):
I fail to see the need for requiring voters to present IDs. Why? For what purpose?

Even Republicans, after conducting several exhaustive studies, have failed to demonstrate any major sort of voter fraud over the past twenty years.

  

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 5):
Maybe ensuring the lowest fraud percentage. There was a report that in Florida an alien resident actually voted in the elections...if these are the people for whom the Democrats are against the law, then I'm sorry but I cross party lines on this issue and side with Republicans. I don't think Russian officials would be happy if I went and voted in their elections without being officially registered to vote, even if I vote for the governing party. I don't see why the same cannot be applied back here.

So you take the "report" that one person may have voted illegally as a reason to take action everywhere? What else do you apply that standard to? Where one reported incident means everything/everyone must change how they do things? Guns? Driving? Food safety? Cause we don't, so again: Where?

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 6):
At the point of registration: in order to prove that the person registering to vote is indeed the person who is registering and that person is indeed eligible to vote.

At the poll: in order to prove that the person presenting himself at the poll is indeed the person registered to vote.

Simple, right?

No, not so simple. Sure when registering but at the polls no. What do you have to do for banking? What about online banking? You have to prove yourself upfront and then after you just do basic login stuff there after. Others have pointed out healthcare/insurance but there also, you just have to show a card not you ID along with it (at least not at the three system I have been a part of). You basically prove who you are upfront and then don't have to do more "officially" (using a government approved ID) afterwards. There are many instances where the proof is needed up front but not afterwards. For voting you need to prove you belong on the voting rolls then after that just show up and vote.

I dare anyone here to go ahead and vote in someone else's name. Go ahead, its easy, there is no risk and it is rampant apparently. So what is the problem? I'll tell you what it is, it is not easy and does not happen as a wide spread problem in a way that impacts results. What impacts results are the backroom stuff, the ballot stuffing and vote tampering that can occur, THAT is where all the efforts need to be concentrated.

Having a bunch of volunteers check peoples ID"s once every two years while they sit in their garage will do NOTHING for preventing voter fraud as those people will simply work to get it done anyway as they are obviously committed to doing it. ID checking at the POLS will be as useful as the TSA, all theater, no real effect.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5660 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3514 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 9):
And increase the deficit?


Well, we could always cut services to illegal aliens to pay for it....

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 10):
that will most likely discourage many people from voting;


How does it discourage voters, if the vast majority of people already have an ID. And, those that don't can get one without charge?

Quoting rampart (Reply 11):
paper ballots, or electronic ones that provide a paper receipt


All for it.

Quoting rampart (Reply 11):
voting over an entire week, or perhaps an entire 3-day weekend, including some days polls open 24 hours


Nope. Vote on election day, or get an absentee ballot. And, control the absentee ballots.

Quoting rampart (Reply 11):
cessation of active campaigning during that voting period


I think that's probably already a law in many states.

Quoting rampart (Reply 11):
no calling of races prior to polls closing, moratorium on exit polling


Agreed.

Quoting rampart (Reply 11):
polls closing at same time nationally,


So long as media outlets in NY don't start calling the race before the polls in HI close, I don't see an issue.

Quoting tugger (Reply 12):
What about online banking? You have to prove yourself upfront and then after you just do basic login stuff there after.


I show an ID whenever I go to the bank. If we ever get to online voting (shudder), we'll worry about that kind of fraud.

Quoting tugger (Reply 12):
you just have to show a card not you ID along with it


I just showed my ID and insurance card to 2 different doctors' offices.

Look, I would much rather have very stringent controls on the registration process, but with these stupid motor/voter laws and all these active community organizer campaigns to get every Jacob, Mason & William (let's not leave out Sophia, Isabella & Emma) registered, we just don't have the controls in place. So, I think that if Jack MaHogoff shows up at the polls to vote, he should prove that he is, indeed, Jack MaHogoff.

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 10):
the very people who are most likely to vote for a Democratic candidate


Why? Is getting an ID too hard for Democrats? I fail to understand why Democrats will be more hard hit. I would suspect those that lean to the Right would be more hard hit. You know, Libertarians, militia types, those that fear big government and live off the grid.

Tell me...why are Blacks, Hispanics and the elderly (these are the traditional Democratic voting groups cited most) more unlikely to be able to get a government issued ID? Tell me...is something wrong with these groups?



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlinerampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3157 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3495 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 13):
Nope. Vote on election day, or get an absentee ballot. And, control the absentee ballots.

A few countries have multiple day elections (Czech Republic and Italy, for instance). And I think a majority of nations hold theirs on a weekend day, rather than midweek. Curious, what is your opposition to multiple day election? Absentee balloting is similar, but probably not as effective in generating response. The U.S. has among the poorest voter turnout of any of the industrialized nations, I'm interested in increasing that turnout.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 13):
I think that's probably already a law in many states.

Yes. Near polling places. But not in the media or advertising, which goes on (I think, or maybe I'm so brain numb by that time I can't help but hear it like ringing in the ears). Just show pictures of the candidates slipping their ballot into the box at their home polling place, leave it at that.

-Rampart


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7282 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3486 times:

I have to show my drivers license at the poll. If it didn't than anyone could walk in say hey I am "flymia" and can I got vote now. I think it's insane to not show any ID to go vote. Florida has 180k on their votes list who's immigration status is suspicious, I.E. they might not be citizens maybe legal resident but not citizens. That's a huge problem. Citizens vote and that's it. But there is fraud in plenty of places. And from what I have personally witnessed it comes from one side mainly...

I registered to vote on my 18th birthday and from what I remember it was a very easy process. They either need to make the registering part much more difficult or make ID a requirement at the polls. It can't be both ways.

People really think there is not voting fraud?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...istrationwoes.html?prmid=head_main

I have personally helped in voter registration at naturalization ceremonies in 2008. Trust me there are problems with the system. From one group of "volunteers" if the "R" was checked that form went into the garbage. Everything has some sort of fraud.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2185 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3475 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 8):
When you cash a check?

I don't have to show an ID when I cash a check at my bank.

But then I haven't actually been in a bank in a few months. I just use mobile deposit or the ATM deposit. No ID required, no standing in line etc.


User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5660 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3468 times:

Quoting rampart (Reply 14):
Curious, what is your opposition to multiple day election?


In Texas, among other states, there is early voting. I can't recall the period, but it's something like 2 or 3 weeks prior to election day, you can go to a central location within the various cities and vote. I participated. But, I'm not a fan of it.

Let's say, I vote on day 1 of the voting period. Let's say on day 2, something comes out about my candidate that would have changed my mind. I'm stuck.

I like a very specific time frame to vote. As short as practical. It reduces the opportunity for fraud.

And, here's the patriotic type in me coming out, election days are well known and the polls tend to be open for 12-14 hours depending on the state. Surely, you can make the time to get to the polls. If you're not in town or have a legitimate excuse (as defined by whatever statute a state cares to pass), then get an absentee ballot.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21882 posts, RR: 55
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3451 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 17):
Let's say, I vote on day 1 of the voting period. Let's say on day 2, something comes out about my candidate that would have changed my mind. I'm stuck.

But you know that there's a possibility of that when you go to vote early. So you'd only have yourself to blame for locking yourself in.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 17):
And, here's the patriotic type in me coming out, election days are well known and the polls tend to be open for 12-14 hours depending on the state. Surely, you can make the time to get to the polls.

A lot of people have a hard time getting time off work to go to the polls, especially with the longer lines that have been showing up in recent elections. People who work two jobs are probably SOL.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 3379 posts, RR: 8
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3444 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 12):
So you take the "report" that one person may have voted illegally as a reason to take action everywhere?

No, and I doubt these votes may alter the outcome of an election, but if this can happen in one place, it can happen in other places as well. Why is it too much to ask for ANY ID when at the polls? It's just perplexing...



"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3679 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3434 times:

Quoting chrisair (Reply 16):
But then I haven't actually been in a bank in a few months. I just use mobile deposit or the ATM deposit. No ID required, no standing in line etc.

Depositing a check that is in your name and it is deposited in that account holder's name leaves little room for fraud, unless the check itself is fraudulent, which is a different story. If you want to get cash in hand instead of depositing, you will be asked for an ID.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3420 times:

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 10):
So we're on a nationwide campaign to impose ID laws for fraud that hasn't happened, that will most likely discourage many people from voting; the very people who are most likely to vote for a Democratic candidate, by the way.

If you're too lazy to get an ID (possibly for free!) to do all of the myriad things that require such in modern society, chances are you're far too lazy to register to vote or vote.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineokie From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3197 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3396 times:

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 7):
There is little to no fraud. So what's the point of making citizens jump through yet another hoop?

Obviously, you have never to the polling place to vote and found out someone has used your name to vote.

So my question to you is: Why do you feel it is so important to disenfranchise my vote by letting someone else vote for me without ID.

I will leave it at that, just answer the question.

Okie


User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5755 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3326 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 17):
and the polls tend to be open for 12-14 hours depending on the state. Surely, you can make the time to get to the polls.

  

You've clearly never had a job where you worked 16 hour days, or have to commute a long distance, or maybe are out of town on business (or maybe it's your job to be out of town, ie, a pilot or flight attendant).

This is really disturbing coming from a supposed business owner.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5660 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 23):
You've clearly never had a job where you worked 16 hour days, or have to commute a long distance,


My current shift is 13 hours and I work on Tuesdays. I've also worked 13 hour shifts on the night shift.

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 23):
or maybe are out of town on business (or maybe it's your job to be out of town, ie, a pilot or flight attendant).


Did you miss the part where I said:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 17):
Surely, you can make the time to get to the polls. If you're not in town or have a legitimate excuse (as defined by whatever statute a state cares to pass), then get an absentee ballot.


I'm not against absentee ballots. I've used them in the past (20 years ago) when I traveled for a living. They just need to be controlled. I can't recall...are they or their envelope serialized? If not, why not? I want a fixed deadline, sometime before election day, for the ballots to be returned, so that they can be counted on election day.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
25 Post contains links modernart : http://www.chron.com/news/article/Te...voter-ID-law-s-effects-3697494.php Victoria Rose Rodriguez, 18, told a federal court in Washington that she had
26 Maverick623 : Um... that's exactly what early voting does. I'm not sure why you would be for "absentee" ballots, but against "early voting". They're pretty much th
27 fr8mech : Didn't say I was against it, just not a fan of it. I wouldn't use it again if it was available to me, unless it was absolutely necessary to cast my v
28 ltbewr : I have worked at 2 elections in my community here in NJ (2007-2008) so familiar with the issue. Generally ID was, and from a recent check of NJ Voting
29 Aesma : First, I'm surprised this is going on in "red states" since I thought Republicans were the most opposed to the idea of mandatory IDs, a mandatory ID b
30 PITingres : No, Republicans like mandatory ID because it tends to exclude potential voters that usually vote Democrat (poor, black, and to some degree elderly).
31 fr8mech : Once again I ask: Can a Democrat or Liberal tell me why these folks are incapable of securing an ID?[Edited 2012-07-15 09:53:55]
32 bjorn14 : Just like liberals, who take a statistically irrelevant number in abortions (rape, incest, life of mother) and say all abortions should be legal. Fun
33 DeltaMD90 : I think having some method of identification should exist. Whether that be IDs or whatever I am against abortion, but that is NOT what liberals say Wh
34 PITingres : I'm neither, but here are some of the reasons cited in the article: - can't afford the DOT fees (the law requires the ID to be free but apparently so
35 fr8mech : Still haven't answered the question: Why are Blacks, Hispanics and the elderly disproportionately affected? Why isn't anyone screaming about the whit
36 texan : The people this law affects are predominantly poor. There are many people in our large cities and rural areas who may not have any government issued
37 fr8mech : Ok, but I ask again: No, the point of these laws are to assure that the people registering to vote are eligible and the people voting are the people
38 BMI727 : So these poor, forgotten folks are somehow unable to go to get a (likely free) ID, but would still find in in themselves to get to a polling place? M
39 Post contains links aa757first : I didn't care much about this issue, but I did lean towards the pro-ID camp. It really seems unconscionable not to have government issued photo ID sin
40 Post contains images PITingres : The ID per se might be free. Getting to where you get the ID, with the proper paperwork, is likely not, and as I pointed out above, it quite possibly
41 rampart : You are just asking what you already know, since you also threw in rural Appalachia. It has to do with income and the type of work for that income. I
42 mt99 : DO the ID required to do anything of the above show that you are legally allowed to vote?
43 Dreadnought : Voting is a QUALIFIED right. Not everyone can vote. The qualifications are clearly put down in the Constitution - you must be a citizen. You must be
44 bjorn14 : Colorado just found 430 illegal aliens who voted in the 2010 election and that was without the DHS database. The ACLU probably spent more in lawyer's
45 mt99 : 430! out of over 1.7 million votes? That almost 0.05% If you want Government run like a business, you would not spend a dime to fix a 0.05% "error"
46 casinterest : Is it me , or does anyone else find it ironic that most of the supporters of less government and regulationL usuallly because they don't trust Governm
47 PITingres : Or, just maybe, anyone claiming that there have been "free-for-all's" at polling places with "rampant fraud", is intentionally lying about THAT. Afte
48 fr8mech : No, but the ID I present DOES prove that I am who I claim to be.[Edited 2012-07-16 10:17:06]
49 casinterest : Sure, but how often do you hear about folks that try to vote as someone else? I
50 mt99 : So, it would have not done anything to solve this "problem": right?
51 Post contains links Dreadnought : That is a strawman argument. By definition, where voter IDs are not checked, and where a person happens to know that certain names have been register
52 Post contains links fr8mech : What? If I were to show up at a polling place and say "Hi, do you have an Eric Holder?" and the guy behind the desk were to ask for an ID substantiat
53 mt99 : Did you read my post? No - you did not.. Here i'll help you. How would a regular ID (like the one you suggested earlier) stop this problem in COLORAD
54 PITingres : It proves no such thing, of course, but for the purposes of this discussion I'll let it go. (It proves that you were able to convince an issuing agen
55 fr8mech : Please... I apologize, I missed the colon. Since there is no citation that I could find, I don't know what the problem was or is that allowed those f
56 aa757first : That's insignificant, considering over 400,000 people voted. I don't get the critique. The ACLU took the case because it falls into their mission sta
57 Maverick623 : Well, duh. There's almost no way to catch voter fraud if you don't verify people's identities. It's not how many people voted, it's how close the out
58 Dreadnought : As you might recall, a few hundred votes decided the 2000 election.
59 Mir : Which is more fraudulent, the election where people who shouldn't be allowed to vote are, or the election where people who should be allowed to vote
60 Post contains links AirframeAS : Oh, really? I dunno where you get your info but you are incorrect... You need to research better.... For Washington State: https://fortress.wa.gov/do
61 seb146 : Yes. Except.... Every election cycle (even numbered years) it seems the right-wing makes this the only issue. Like voter fraud is rampant and somethi
62 Maverick623 : Really? Did you miss the post where upon a minor, cursory search, 400+ votes were fraudulent in Colorado (hardly a hotbed of illegal immigration)? On
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