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Ncaa Punishes Penn State  
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3702 posts, RR: 2
Posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4888 times:

The NCAA acting quickly in the wake of Freeh Report handed out the following penalties:

$60MM fine

4-year bowl ban

Loss of 10 scholarships per year for 4 years

Vacated all of JoePa's wins since 1998 (He now has 298 wins)

Allows athletes to transfer to other schools without penalty.

5 years probation.

Reserves the right to add more penalties in the wake of continuing legal investigations.

Do you think this is fair?


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
209 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1939 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4879 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
$60MM fine

...to be paid to an endowment fund supporting child abuse victim programs.

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
Loss of 10 scholarships per year for 4 years

It's actually 20 scholarships per year for 4 years.

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
Allows athletes to transfer to other schools without penalty.

This is the only one I disagree with. They didn't give Penn State the death penalty, so why would they include this? It's a pointless escape clause for players.

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
Do you think this is fair?

Yep. Especially the $60M because it actually directly helps the victims. Good call by the NCAA to include this.



Flying refined.
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4392 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4852 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 1):

It's actually 20 scholarships per year for 4 years.

No, 20 total. Like, 20 players that would be on scholarship for 4-5 years, won't be, when all is said and done.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4853 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
Do you think this is fair?

They did a lot but not enough. Nothing short of the death penalty for several years is appropriate here in order to completely and utterly destroy the culture that made it possible for this to happen.

Already you have players using the punishment as a rallying cry and "motivation," which is completely missing the point. They could win every game next season and there would be no real healing. Nobody would be unraped. The death penalty was necessary to swiftly and decisively smash such thinking and keep the focus where it should be.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1939 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4841 times:

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 2):
No, 20 total. Like, 20 players that would be on scholarship for 4-5 years, won't be, when all is said and done.

That's not what TSN.ca is saying:

Quote:
INDIANAPOLIS -- The NCAA slammed Penn State with an unprecedented series of penalties Monday, including a $60 million fine and the loss of all coach Joe Paterno's victories from 1998-2011, in the wake of the Jerry Sandusky child sex abuse scandal.

Other sanctions include a four-year ban on bowl games, the loss of 20 scholarships per year over four years and five years' probation. The NCAA also said that any current or incoming football players are free to immediately transfer and compete at another school.

(Bold is my emphasis)

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
Nobody would be unraped.

Agreed, but even with your suggestion, nobody would be "unraped". At the end of the day, nothing can undo it unfortunately.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4826 times:

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
$60MM fine

This is one I disagree with. The money will either reduce scholarships for poorer students, or will be paid by the taxpayers so those kids can still get their scholarships. It has long seemed to me that the NCAA is a bit blind to the situation students from lower incomes face and this just highlights that disconnect. I wonder what the salaries are for those on the NCAA committee who came up with the $60 Million.

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
4-year bowl ban

Not a big deal. In keeping with the NCAA approach of punishing the students this pretty well is expected.

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
Loss of 10 scholarships per year for 4 years

Another punishment for students not involved in the abuses - typical of the NCAA to take money away from poorer students.

Like the $60 million fine, this one shows me the the NCAA, with all their brilliant minds, cannot think of a punishment that doesn't lower a schools ability to bring in students from lower income areas.

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
Vacated all of JoePa's wins since 1998 (He now has 298 wins)

I could care less about this one. Any player who lost a game to Penn State will know they lost, just like those who beat them will remember that game.

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
Allows athletes to transfer to other schools without penalty.

Not a bad decision here as the NCAA is causing these students a lot of misery right now. Not as much as the previous coaches did, but the NCAA is going to cause pain.

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
Reserves the right to add more penalties in the wake of continuing legal investigations.

This one bothers me. The NCAA has acted exceptionally quick (for them) and now needs to stand back and let the courts operate without their interference.

The interesting issue for me is the question of the NCAA getting involved and financially benefitting by the $60 million. They now seem to be part of the "chain of command" and, as such, might well be added to civil lawsuits. Especially with that $60 million that the victims trial lawyers can go after. The old saying "sue them all" may well bring the NCAA under that legal umbrella. Who's to say that the NCAA didn't look the other way for the past 12 years?


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4617 posts, RR: 23
Reply 6, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4825 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 4):
That's not what TSN.ca is saying:

Try: http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoot...state-hit-with-crippling-penalties

Quote:
INDIANAPOLIS -- Penn State football was hit with a four-year postseason ban, the loss of 40 scholarships over four years and a $60 million fine as a result of the cover up in the Jerry Sandusky scandal.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4617 posts, RR: 23
Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4821 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 5):
This is one I disagree with. The money will either reduce scholarships for poorer students, or will be paid by the taxpayers so those kids can still get their scholarships. It has long seemed to me that the NCAA is a bit blind to the situation students from lower incomes face and this just highlights that disconnect. I wonder what the salaries are for those on the NCAA committee who came up with the $60 Million.

The $60M essentially equates to the income of the football program per year. It is meant to eliminate it for one year.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 5):
This one bothers me. The NCAA has acted exceptionally quick (for them) and now needs to stand back and let the courts operate without their interference.

This was done using a new clause allowing the President of the NCAA to inflict his own sanctions without regard to a typical NCAA investigation. They'll still conduct that and issue additional penalties if needed when that concludes.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 5):
The interesting issue for me is the question of the NCAA getting involved and financially benefitting by the $60 million.

You did bother to read that the $60M is going to a charity that helps kids that are victims of sex abuse right?


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11583 posts, RR: 52
Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4821 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 1):
t's a pointless escape clause for players.

Why? What did the players have to do with this? This stuff happened in 2001, when these players (all ranging 17-22 in age) were not even in middle school.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
Nothing short of the death penalty for several years is appropriate here in order to completely and utterly destroy the culture that made it possible for this to happen.

At some point, it's just vindictive and pointless. "The death penalty for several years?" You don't come back after the death penalty. See for example, SMU.

The death penalty, just as in real life, encourages people who have done severe wrongs to either continue doing them or cover them up instead of come clean and seek absolution.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 4):
Agreed, but even with your suggestion, nobody would be "unraped".

  

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
Do you think this is fair?

Yes. Paterno and others inside the program helped cover up the crime. Now that these facts have been exposed, it's hard to see the punishment as unfair.

My question is only why only Football was punished, when it appears that the entire athletic department and school were in cover up mode.



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User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1939 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4816 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 5):
This is one I disagree with. The money will either reduce scholarships for poorer students, or will be paid by the taxpayers so those kids can still get their scholarships. It has long seemed to me that the NCAA is a bit blind to the situation students from lower incomes face and this just highlights that disconnect. I wonder what the salaries are for those on the NCAA committee who came up with the $60 Million.

I don't see a problem with it. They said that $60M is approximately what PSU makes in gross revenue from football operations in a year. Every penny of that will go to supporting victim groups.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 5):
Another punishment for students not involved in the abuses - typical of the NCAA to take money away from poorer students.

This would impact incoming athletes. Any football player who is being looked at by PSU is most definitely getting scholarship offers from other schools as well. No harm done here.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 5):
The NCAA has acted exceptionally quick

They had to act before the upcoming season.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 6):

I guess TSN has it wrong. Here is the excerpt from the official NCAA decision:

Quote:
For a period of four years commencing with the 2013-2014 academic year and expiring at the conclusion of the 2016-2017 academic year, the NCAA imposes a limit of 15 initial grants-in-aid (from a maximum of 25 allowed) and for a period of four years commencing with the 2014-2015 academic year and expiring at the conclusion of the 2017-2018 academic year a limit of 65 total grants-in-aid (from a maximum of 85 allowed) for football during each of those specified years. In the event the total number of grants-in-aid drops below 65, the University may award grants-in-aid to non-scholarship student-athletes who have been members of the football program as allowed under Bylaw 15.5.6.3.6.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4812 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 4):
Agreed, but even with your suggestion, nobody would be "unraped". At the end of the day, nothing can undo it unfortunately.

The problem is that they are setting up a very wrong and damaging narrative within the team, fans, and media for the upcoming season. They're going to play the "everyone is against us" motivation card and look to winning as healing when it is actually nothing of the sort and is likely actually a damaging influence. When the Saints got good again and we had to hear all about how great that was in the wake of Katrina was just annoying. Here the same sort of sentiment will do little to make sure that this cannot happen again.

Penn State needs to not play for a few years to send a big helping of collective guilt at the fans and program that are responsible for allowing the environment to exist and hit the reset button on the program. They need to take a break and start over in a few years.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 5):
The money will either reduce scholarships for poorer students, or will be paid by the taxpayers so those kids can still get their scholarships.

The money would be paid out in civil lawsuits. The victims just got a small advance on their damages.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 5):
Another punishment for students not involved in the abuses - typical of the NCAA to take money away from poorer students.

You have to hit them where it hurts and that is where it hurts. Not to mention that if you have a football scholarship to Penn State, then you are obviously good enough to have a football scholarship at pretty much everywhere else but a handful of schools. It isn't much of an obstacle to players really interested in an education, which few likely are.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 5):
This one bothers me. The NCAA has acted exceptionally quick (for them) and now needs to stand back and let the courts operate without their interference.

The NCAA levied the penalties based on the Freeh report that Penn State commissioned and accepts. (Along with every other reasonable human being. There are a few deniers out there)



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15845 posts, RR: 27
Reply 11, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4806 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
At some point, it's just vindictive and pointless. "The death penalty for several years?" You don't come back after the death penalty. See for example, SMU.

They used the program to cover up the rape of children. It should be addressed with extreme prejudice.

You cannot have a situation where it's "We'll just do some renovations and see you next year." There needs to be a nice long timeout and cooling off period for everyone, plus to allow the various investigations to take their course. We've only seen the tip of the iceberg.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4783 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
My question is only why only Football was punished, when it appears that the entire athletic department and school were in cover up mode.

That can probably be answered with the below statement:

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
Reserves the right to add more penalties in the wake of continuing legal investigations.

More is probably coming, including further fines and punishments against the school by the respective bodies of the State of Pennsylvania and quite possibly the federal government. Then there is the bevy of civil lawsuits that will surely go in the victims' favor.


User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3702 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4780 times:

If this had come out when it was supposed to back in 2002, JoePa would have surely lost his job. He was in the middle of the worst 4-year W-L (2000-4, 26-37)period of his tenure. Fans were putting up websites like fireJoePa.com.


"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11583 posts, RR: 52
Reply 14, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4778 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
At some point, it's just vindictive and pointless. "The death penalty for several years?" You don't come back after the death penalty. See for example, SMU.

They used the program to cover up the rape of children. It should be addressed with extreme prejudice.

You cannot have a situation where it's "We'll just do some renovations and see you next year." There needs to be a nice long timeout and cooling off period for everyone, plus to allow the various investigations to take their course. We've only seen the tip of the iceberg.

You really didn't understand what I said.

The "death penalty" destroys the program forever. That is vindictive. It does not fix any of the wrongs that have occurred.

These punishments handed out are severely costly. Penn State might find itself no longer in the Big Ten in a year. All their athletes are going to bolt for other schools. Look at the much lighter punishments Michigan basketball faced about 8-9 years ago. Just losing their scholarships and postseason eligibility for a couple years crippled the program for 10+ years.

It will be at least 10 years before Penn State football is relevant again, and even then, they will only be relevant. They may never be dominant again, and will likely not see even one twentieth of the revenue they used to. You might think that is simply just (and I'm not saying it is unjust), but who is that going to hurt most? The students. The students will pay a price for the inaction of adults.



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User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26175 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4765 times:

Personally I believe they should have shut down the football program completely for 5 or so years.

There were terrible institutional problems at Penn and its football program. Allowing to remain in business is an error.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4765 times:

The Big Ten has added additional sanctions.

Penn State cannot play in the Big Ten championship game for four years - no matter what their record.

Penn State will not receive the normal share of bowl game revenue for four years - about a $15 million per year penalty.

The only thing which bothers me about this series of penalties is I see no sanctions for the individuals in the program and school named in the internal investigation.

Any football coaches or athletic staff named in the interal investigation should be banned from any NCAA activities/ sports for four years, and any school administration officials should also be banned, or any schools which employ them for four years. Yes, I know most are retired. I don't care if anyone loses a career or retirement. They should be going to jail.

But possibly such individual sanctions require some more documentation of their wrongdoing. Maybe later we will see those.

One other thing I'd like to see - no Penn State football on TV or radio for the four years.


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4796 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4749 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 11):
They used the program to cover up the rape of children. It should be addressed with extreme prejudice.

You cannot have a situation where it's "We'll just do some renovations and see you next year." There needs to be a nice long timeout and cooling off period for everyone, plus to allow the various investigations to take their course. We've only seen the tip of the iceberg.

So take it out on everyone, even those not invoived? That is above and beyond cruel and unusual punishment. The people most responsible are dead or in jail or in court, and not at the university anymore.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinebjorn14 From Norway, joined Feb 2010, 3702 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4711 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 17):
The people most responsible are dead or in jail or in court, and not at the university anymore.

No, fmr. President Spanier (he of wife-swapping Ph.D. dissertation fame) is still on the faculty in the Human Development dept. at PSU. and AD Curley is on paid administrative leave while awaiting trial.



"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4701 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 17):
So take it out on everyone, even those not invoived? That is above and beyond cruel and unusual punishment. The people most responsible are dead or in jail or in court, and not at the university anymore.

Everyone at the university participated, creating the culture that a) a blasted game mattered so much and b) that winning was more important than people. It's not unique to Penn State. It just finally went too too far at Penn State. I quit my university's team (with a winning record, so it's not sour grapes) because I did not want to be associated with things far more benign than anything that has happened at Penn State. I have been in many discussions over the years with friends and family about the dangers of letting one thing become so important that everything else becomes important and what the "good" players and people in charge are allowed to get away with. This is a shot fired across the bow of every collegiate athletic program in the country that priorities need to be reevaluated, policies need to be changed, and it SHOULD (but won't be) a notice to fans and athletes that there are more important things in life.


User currently offlinembmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4691 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 17):
So take it out on everyone, even those not invoived? That is above and beyond cruel and unusual punishment. The people most responsible are dead or in jail or in court, and not at the university anymore.

"Beyond cruel and unusual?" To take away the ability to play in championship games is tantamount to extreme pain? Really?

You also posit the notion that it affects the lives of so many innocent people who are not involved. But that's looking at it narrowly. The whole line of thinking behind these sanctions is to disrupt - and hopefully eliminate - a culture that quashed allegations of serious crimes through denial, inaction, bullyism or direct interference with the situation. Do you have any idea how many death threats the young men and boys who made these charges received?

This is a university community that regards their football team as a high, holy religion and Joe Paterno as their savior.

I think a "reset" is in order.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4679 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3):
Nothing short of the death penalty for several years is appropriate here in order to completely and utterly destroy the culture that made it possible for this to happen.
Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 7):
The $60M essentially equates to the income of the football program per year.

So without that money where will the school get the funds that would have gone to non-athletic activities, like scholarships?

There is no free ride and students & employes outside the athletic department will be paying a big chunk of that $60 million, as well as the money that civil actions take from the school.

There is more to Penn State than football and the NCAA is effectively diminishing the non-athletic parts of the school as well as the athletic area.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 7):
You did bother to read that the $60M is going to a charity that helps kids that are victims of sex abuse right?

And the trial lawyers will have every right to go after those funds for their clients who were victims. My bet is that the NCAA will now be seen as a target to include in the suits against the school. There should be no way that the NCAA can hide the money from the victims.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 7):
They'll still conduct that and issue additional penalties if needed when that concludes.

DO we really need that? This entire situation is a huge can of worms and I believe that the courts (both criminal and civil) should be the ones straightening the situations out with vigorous decisions.

The NCAA, IMO, is simply getting in with a "me too" attitude.

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
Yes. Paterno and others inside the program helped cover up the crime. Now that these facts have been exposed, it's hard to see the punishment as unfair.

When the punishment impacts the innocent students and faculty without punishing the individuals who caused the problem then it is fair to consider it as unfair.

You want fair punishment? First, don't do anything that will assist defense attorneys in courts. Second, ban those involved from university employment. 'm talking from the President down.

But you are not going to see that because the members of the NCAA know that they could be in the target some time in the future. So you have a bunch of PhD's protecting their positions with disregard to simple students who want to go to college.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 9):
They said that $60M is approximately what PSU makes in gross revenue from football operations in a year. Every penny of that will go to supporting victim groups

And how much will be taken from academic scholarships? Penn State, IMO, has long been one of those schools where students from average to low income homes can go and get a good education. It's not the rich kids school and the money that the NCAA is pulling out of the school is going to negatively impact these kids. ANother situation of the NCAA punishing the innocent whole leaving the guilty alone.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 9):
No harm done here.

Of course there is, unless the NCAA allows "other schools" to have extra scholarships equal to the loss at Penn State.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 9):
They had to act before the upcoming season.

Bull. They should have waited until all criminal court cases are tried and a jury decision is reached. There was no need to stick their nose under the tent at this time, especially if you want the criminal system to move forward without interference.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 9):
as allowed under Bylaw 15.5.6.3.6.

Geez, that is simply in indication of the depth that the NCAA is controlling schools. My bet is that the documents covering bylaws, policies and procedures is far larger than Obama's Health Care Reform Bill.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
The money would be paid out in civil lawsuits. The victims just got a small advance on their damages.

Or the NCAA will try to keep the funds in some isolated account so they can pay themselves money to administer it.

Maybe some smart trial lawyers will get an injunction freezing the money in a Penn State account until all civil litigation by the victims are settled.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
You have to hit them where it hurts and that is where it hurts.

If you are going to do that you need to address the specific individuals causing the problems. THe NCAA should ban coaches and other employees involved in an infraction for X number of years, or permanently. I actually have no problem with the NCAA banning employees (up to the President and Board members) as well as coaches.

In the Penn State matter, the court is clearly taking care of the rapist. JoePa is dead, but I can see the lawyers going after part of his estate. Others in the school have been terminated, some have been arrested and investigations are on-going. Those that are left to punish should be punished as an individual. Otherwise you give people the ability to hide within the school.

That is a far different approach than the NCAA imposing a strong punishment on the entire student body. I believe that efforts to punish the student both as a whole diminish the school and its ability to serve the state.


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4796 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4679 times:

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 20):
You also posit the notion that it affects the lives of so many innocent people who are not involved. But that's looking at it narrowly. The whole line of thinking behind these sanctions is to disrupt - and hopefully eliminate - a culture that quashed allegations of serious crimes through denial, inaction, bullyism or direct interference with the situation. Do you have any idea how many death threats the young men and boys who made these charges received?

Narrowly? You are looking at in such a manner that anyone that has ever stepped foot on Penn St is guilty by association.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 19):
Everyone at the university participated, creating the culture t

You all basically saying anyone who ever went to the college is guilty by association? That is too broad.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2237 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4663 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 22):
You all basically saying anyone who ever went to the college is guilty by association? That is too broad.

Perhaps. But I do know this: it took more than the administration to make this a problem, most of them unknowingly but they participated nonetheless. It took fans (what is strangest of all to me is that most of them never attended Penn State). It took students. So I will revise my statement from EVERYBODY to a great many people at the university over the years. I still don't think the punishment was too harsh. People need to be aware of what can happen when they support something so blindly and without perspective. Watching the students and fans cry and whine about a coward and criminal makes me sick.


User currently offlinembmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4651 times:

Quoting luckyone (Reply 23):
I still don't think the punishment was too harsh. People need to be aware of what can happen when they support something so blindly and without perspective. Watching the students and fans cry and whine about a coward and criminal makes me sick.

Well said! And to add to it, I don't buy it that banning Penn State from participating in championships and cutting back their scholarships constitutes "punishment" to their fans.

Again, sometimes you have to hit the reset button and start over to eradicate what is obviously an entire culture of football worship (whether or not it was every single member of the community) that enables people to look past horrible crimes. And sometimes you have to make a statement that our society, some crimes are heinous and unforgivable.


25 luckyone : On the contrary, I think it's the fans that need some of the punishment...We have a monster in the form of athletic church.[Edited 2012-07-23 10:36:1
26 Post contains images rampart : I'm not shedding any tears. Students --> go get a BA, enjoy your education, attend another intercollegiate sport. Exactly. It will be interesting
27 casinterest : The scholarship cutting may affect games won and lost. But in many cases, especially with Penn state , the end punishment isn't with Penn State, it i
28 einsteinboricua : It's rather strange. I'm currently working at Penn State and if it weren't for the news, I'd say nothing is happening here. I did notice, however, the
29 D L X : Whoa, hold up, Ken. We're talking about what the NCAA can and should do against the school. The NCAA controls nothing more than athletics. It cannot
30 Post contains links BMI727 : This program does need to be destroyed forever to make sure that it can never happen again. You don't just need to destroy relevance in the world of
31 luckyone : I do agree, to a point. Most players at those smaller schools will not be on scholarship. Some will be on partial (and not many at that), but those s
32 Post contains images WestJet747 : Sounds about right. Maybe things work differently down in Pennsylvania, but where I'm from, profits from the football team don't fund the entire scho
33 srbmod : Football pays for the other athletic programs at Penn State and pretty much every other college in the US that fields a football team. That $60 milli
34 corocks : I think the punishment was just about right. From what most sports reporters are saying, they think the loss of scholarships is actually more detrimen
35 BMI727 : ...and I'm sure if we'd just let the Germans go back to business as usual they wouldn't have elected another genocidal maniac... The point is that yo
36 bjorn14 : Lots of things in life affect 'innocent' people. I would bet that a large percentage of faculty and students went to Penn State based on the prestige
37 luckyone : It's not that simple. The system is so political the players have a part. The top guys participate in the recruiting frenzy, they make requests, they
38 Post contains images WestJet747 : My knowledge of college football history is failing me at the moment. Who has the most now with Paterno being knocked down a peg? First of all, I thi
39 Mir : The culture of glorification of football contributed to Paterno's ability to sweep things under the rug. It clearly still persists at the university
40 bjorn14 : IIRC the NCAA handed SMU some severe sanctions and it was SMU who said we'll just impose the death penalty ourselves.
41 BMI727 : The scale of suffering is, but the same mechanisms are at work. There absolutely is blame to be placed on those who participate in a culture that all
42 rfields5421 : It isn't like they said the wins were invalid because of ineligible players, etc. Taking away wins as punishment is like saying the General Robert E.
43 Post contains links srbmod : The late Eddie Robinson of Grambling University holds the Division I record (Division I/Football Bowl Series and Division I-AA/Football Championship
44 corocks : I disagree. If this was found out earlier then Paterno would not have been around to get all those wins. In addition, Sandusky would not have been th
45 DeltaMD90 : I agree with most of the punishments, and I might get flack for this, but I don't agree with this one. As egregious as Paterno was for letting the mo
46 Ken777 : There was a lot of disbelief on the wrongdoings of JoePa. I think a lot of people also found it hard to believe that Sandusky was guilty. We really t
47 FlyPNS1 : While I think the NCAA punishment was a bit weak, shutting down Penn State will not eliminate the culture that allowed this to happen. This culture e
48 Post contains images WestJet747 : Hmm, the way I remember it (and by remember it, I mean I watched a documentary, since I was not alive in 1987) is that the NCAA set up a committee/bo
49 Post contains images luckyone : You seem to have missed part of my point. Many of the people who are to blame did so without actually breaking any rule, or being aware of the proble
50 txjim : Actually, there is a difference between death penalty for SMU versus death penalty for Penn State. 1) SMU did not have a long history of winning, the
51 rampart : Students, yes, some. Faculty, I doubt very many if any at all. Sure, many would support the athletics, many others would care less, in fact, some fac
52 Post contains links BMI727 : Yeah, the culture does exist elsewhere, but as far as we know none of them are being used as a front for raping kids. If it turns out that they are,
53 Post contains links BMI727 : Actually they've been setting records for donations. The $60 million is a big number, but I'm skeptical of how much it will actually hurt them. The c
54 WestJet747 : Again, the $60M is to be paid to a fund for victim groups...it's not going into the pockets of the NCAA. Again, non-athlete students will not have th
55 Post contains links BMI727 : Don't play dumb. Did the economy suddenly get better and PSU grads have more money to give to the school? By the way, the NCAA's usual mantra is "lac
56 Post contains images WestJet747 : Not playing dumb, just playing devil's advocate. Let's be honest, those numbers are too broad. I'm also certain that a lot of those donations came in
57 Ken777 : Obviously the NCAA isn't going to focus on those guilty of infractions/crimes. It's easier to punish as many kids and employees as possible. What I s
58 BMI727 : It was also the entire university that committed the act. The conspiracy included the university president. We both know that's not true. ...and all
59 kpitrrat : You can also include the fact that the Southwest Conference which had the likes of Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, and Arkansas to name a few, brok
60 BMI727 : But the fans and boosters around the university made him much more than that, which is where they went wrong and why some of the blame lies with them
61 rampart : I'll say this again. Penn State is not a state funded university. It is a state-sanctioned entity unto itself, separate from Pennsylvania's state uni
62 ltbewr : I generally agree with the decision of the NCAA. The ability of players to bail out without NCAA penalties is critical to be fair to the better player
63 kpitrrat : Ok I get that the chanting and signs would be over the top, but what are they all supposed to do? Drop out of school, quit their jobs coaching, move
64 AirframeAS : Wait, wait, wait...... Let me ask..... The NCAA is punishing the current players and the incoming freshmen players for what now? What did they do to w
65 Ken777 : Who (whom?) will Penn State write the check to? The NCAA? Maybe a fund to allow the Sandusky victims to be paid without the embarrassment of going th
66 Mir : That is unfair to them, and pointless too, since we know what actually happened in those games. Nobody wants to burn the school down, just the footba
67 Pyrex : Not to defend Penn State or anything (I think they got what they deserved), but let me make sure I get this straight - the NCAA, an entity that makes
68 BMI727 : Stay home, because there should be no game to go to. Removing the statue is just one step. The season should be cancelled for the same reason that Bi
69 ouboy79 : Have you bothered to read any of the news stories on this? The $60 million plus $15 million fines are going to charities for child abuse, not the fam
70 luckyone : "What I saw was a reaction to $60 Million being taken out of the school. Those people understood that it was the entire university that was going to
71 DarkSnowyNight : You're not missing anything. It's a messed up system, end of story. This is accurate. And as such, the "punishment" simply doesn't go anything like f
72 NorthstarBoy : When it comes to their treatment of Paterno and his record, the NCAA was too heavy handed. Not only are they punishing the university, but they're als
73 Pyrex : You mean, someone who actually deserves to be in there? Oh, and I think you are getting your facts confused... a true "math geek" would not be applyi
74 FlyPNS1 : This logic makes no sense. PSU will still have a QB since they are still going to play football. He may not be a "star", but he'll still take up spac
75 rampart : You're both confusing facts. Out of 45,000 students, how many do you think are on an athletic scholarship? Many more are on academic scholarships of
76 Post contains images WestJet747 : I'm going to go on the assumption you know nothing about college football, so here goes: - The schools collectively make FAR more than the NCAA - Who
77 D L X : I'm trying to figure out if this comment is worth responding to. It's extremely myopic because things like this couldn't possibly happen somewhere el
78 Post contains links Ken777 : This is simply how the NCAA works. When you see them banning coaches for a period of years, or for life, then you can start seeing more intelligent a
79 Post contains links AirframeAS : Keep in mind, I am no Penn State fan nor am I a follower. I know nothing about them at all so........ The problem with that is two fold: 1) The playe
80 WestJet747 : $60M is the estimated GROSS revenue, not NET revenue. I could comfortably say that, yes, it all stays in the Athletic Department. If you read the act
81 AirframeAS : In what way?? They are not even letting the authorities do their job! The rape had no direct impact to football and vice versa. The players did not r
82 Post contains images WestJet747 : A football coach sexually assaulted boys that attended a football camp at the school. Explain again how that has nothing to do with football? Just be
83 Post contains links BMI727 : I think that the sanctions imposed are great, if it were 2014 or 2015. The players are all adults and can make their own decisions, but CTE is a very
84 AirframeAS : Yes, they are. They are beating an already dead horse with a stick. And the sickening thing is that they stated they have the right to impose more pe
85 BMI727 : Because... ...it isn't. Nobody has forced PSU to be part of the NCAA. But they are and as such will play by their rules and take the sanctions they i
86 Post contains images rampart : It's been revealed that there was a form of plea deal between Penn State and NCAA. Penn State chose to waive the ability to appeal by agreeing to LES
87 AirframeAS : Ok, guys... fine. But the fact remains that the NCAA does not give two craps about the student-athlete as they have shown with the sanctions. If they
88 WestJet747 : But that's the thing, it's not illegal when a private organization does it. I'm fairly certain the only people who have the power to fire him were th
89 rampart : It's been argued, and I happen to believe it, that the football student athletes are all part of the same big mess that breeds, supports, and excuses
90 Alias1024 : After thinking it over for the last day I think the punishment is fair. The death penalty would have placed undue hardships on other schools from a sc
91 BMI727 : According to reports I'm hearing today, the vultures are circling the Penn State roster. You could up the fine a bit to compensate them.
92 Post contains images Ken777 : That makes it even more expensive a fine. Say the net is 20%. That puts the penalty at a gross revenue level of $300 million. That is even more damag
93 BMI727 : Which means that people need to always be asking questions and not deifying coaches. Athletic directors, university presidents, trustees, etc. all ne
94 Post contains images WestJet747 : You have it backwards there. Gross revenue is the total revenue a business takes in from operating. Net revenue is the income accounted after costs a
95 Post contains images AirframeAS : He went around the NCAA board to issue these sanctions, it was a personal vendetta by him against PSU. This was mentioned in a USAToday article.....
96 Post contains images WestJet747 : ...What? I've said this in probably a dozen different threads here on A-net: Unethical/immoral does not equal illegal! The NCAA didn't do anything il
97 AirframeAS : Not understanding the pic you posted. Never did I say it was a conspiracy. Please, quit putting words in my mouth. Respect my opinion and leave it at
98 bjorn14 : The NCAA has said no scholarships or programs may be cut or reduced to help pay the $60MM fine. Penn State has an almost $2B endowment and probably i
99 AirframeAS : Yes they are. Again: The rape had nothing to do with football. It did not produce wins, it did not make PSU cheat. It had nothing to do with football
100 bjorn14 : It had everything to do with football. You had a pedophile using the football program and it's facilities as candy to lure young boys into his clutch
101 AirframeAS : Not disagreeing with you, but what you just said was a "university personnel problem", not a NCAA problem. The NCAA cannot force a university to fire
102 FlyPNS1 : The NCAA has authority to govern in areas of player and coaches ethics and behavior. You may not like that fact, but it is a fact. So your argument a
103 ltbewr : Today, State Farm Insurance, a major sponsor of College football has stated they will not sponsor TV presentations of any PSU home games this Carmaker
104 DeltaMD90 : Perhaps I'm being insensitive... but it's a football team. The kids are at college to get an education, not to play football or cheer on their team. I
105 AirframeAS : USAToday reports that Pepsi, Co. is still committed to PSU.
106 Post contains links Pyrex : Just because the schools make more money that does not exempt the NCAA from the fact that they are the ones instituting the rule that says that playe
107 WestJet747 : Free education is most certainly a form of compensation. Eric LeGrand is now in the NFL making lots of money. I don't think that's the argument you w
108 Post contains images WestJet747 : I'm glad someone gets it. ...and they didn't. It should probably read: Pepsi Co. is still committed to PSU until they start losing
109 Pyrex : 1) an education they don't want on things they don't understand about (not that it stops the professors from breezing them right through their classe
110 Post contains images BMI727 : I cannot believe anyone believes this. The only way anyone could say that with a straight face is if they a) are willfully ignorant b) have been livi
111 Post contains links Ken777 : I don't think so. Using the 20% Net figure (easy to calculate) Penn State generates $12 Million a year in net (after expenses). That$12 Million is av
112 Post contains links ouboy79 : http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoot...tate-faced-four-year-death-penalty Report today that the NCAA was ready to give Penn State the death penalty fo
113 PSU.DTW.SCE : I am alumni of Penn State, 5 years and two degrees later, I am still proud to say I went to school there. All I ask is that you please stop making the
114 Post contains links Ken777 : This might be interesting as it is now coming out that the Trustees were concerned about the President's actions without minvolving them: http://www.
115 BMI727 : All of those who prioritized football over all, gathered on Paterno's lawn, rail against NCAA sanctions, refuse to believe that Paterno is at fault,
116 rampart : OK, and likewise the many good educators who gave you that education. It has a well deserved good reputation. So, how do you feel about your alma mat
117 Post contains links PSU.DTW.SCE : http://www.pennlive.com/editorials/i...lum_penn_state_is_more_than_f.html http://mobile.pennlive.com/advpenn/d...entguid=GIyjgiV2&full=true#displa
118 BMI727 : The writer got it backwards. Paterno giving money to the school and going on about values doesn't make him a good guy who made a mistake. It makes Pa
119 PSU.DTW.SCE : No problem, I appreciate the ability to have dialogue and conversation, instead it usually ends up being a bunch of attacks. I've talked with many of
120 Ken777 : I know the will not go away, but I believe that the Board at Penn State will have a legitimate reason to investigate why their President moved forwar
121 ltbewr : I am quite sure they had an army of lawyers really making the decisions, figured out covers (remember the 'rules' the fictional Dean Wormer had in th
122 corocks : Okay, we get it. You hate the NCAA for some reason. Most charities/programs/funds have someone that is paid to administer it. So by your logic, every
123 D L X : Ahh! The voice of reason. Thank you for this cogent comment.
124 Post contains images WestJet747 : I'm rejoining this thread just to say that you win the internet. Well played, sir.
125 BMI727 : Yes. The Catholics who placed priests in a position above suspicion absolutely bear some blame in the scandal. Like the Penn Staters, they are respon
126 Post contains links D L X : Nah man. You just said that ALL people in the group are responsible for the acts of a few. That's a pretty major backtrack you just made. Maybe you'r
127 BMI727 : I don't blame the Penn State alums who pay no attention to football just like I don't blame Catholics who didn't go to church in twenty years. Of cou
128 bjorn14 : I am a little disappointed that PSU didn't get a TV ban but I'm not sure the NCAA could have enforced that as they lost those TV rights years ago.
129 Post contains images rampart : In multiple forums I visit, this is one of several mentions of the parallel. I thought of it, too, and was trying to find a better analog, but couldn
130 Post contains images kpitrrat : Thats what I have been thinking all along. And we as Americans are all for the elimination of due process because we elected a president who orders d
131 Post contains links BMI727 : There are those who exhibit actual understanding of what happened. Go find what LaVar Arrington had to write about the subject. Unfortunately, the ra
132 AirframeAS : So, trying to understand what you're saying..... A Penn State Sudent is just as guilty for what happened as Sandusky is? If so, how would that studen
133 rampart : No. One of them is a criminal and has been sentenced to effectively life in prison. The other will have to suffice with watching exhibition football
134 windy95 : Totally wrong decision by the NCAA. What does today's student and student athlete have to do with the terrible mistakes and decision's of these 4 or 5
135 brilondon : It was not just those 4 or 5 men. It was the cover up of the whole situation by the university and how it was shoved under the rug by all those who w
136 Ken777 : I get it. We have criminal acts and those acts need to be address in the court room and punishment after a conviction should include prison. Anything
137 BMI727 : No they are not just as guilty as Sandusky, just as the average German was not just as guilty as Himmler. However, the student does bear some guilt,
138 EricR : They did a lot but not enough. Nothing short of the death penalty for several years is appropriate here in order to completely and utterly destroy the
139 BMI727 : They did have a part in the scandal, even if they didn't realize it. Therefore those other areas of the university benefited from the conspiracy.
140 EricR : Quoting EricR (Reply 138): The problem with taking a harsher approach is that it starts to impact those that had no part in this scandal. They did ha
141 BMI727 : But students and boosters were instrumental in creating the culture of Penn State. A culture that valued, and continues to value, football over all i
142 Ken777 : And I don't believe that Penn State students were concerned about being killed by a University SS, or disappearing in the middle of the night. There
143 EricR : And how are you drawing the conclusion that the students and fans created a culture that valued football over the rape of children? Neither of these
144 Post contains images BMI727 : ...which makes it even more strange that they act the way they do. They would be well advised to learn a lesson from this. Has that ever actually hap
145 kpitrrat : The point is, if your were ever affiliated with the university you are a supporter of child molestation. If you have ever witnessed a PSU football gam
146 rampart : And you'd lose that bet. Totalitarian administration does not work well with faculty independence. In my answer here... ...the students are somewhat
147 bjorn14 : Apparently he was as Curley wrote in an email to Spanier that "he was uncomfortable calling police after talking to Joe."
148 ltbewr : Shortly after the disclosures last fall of the allegations of sexual assault and rape of boys by Sandusky, significant numbers of PSU students and fac
149 Post contains images windy95 : This has to be the biggest load of manure that I have seen in a long time. To say that the students valued football over child rape is beyond reason.
150 rampart : What about the student protests against the sanctions, against the statue removal, against the allegations in the first place, tell you that students
151 Ken777 : There is NO culture of child rape at Penn State. The Penn State grads on the jury that found Sandusky GUILTY pretty well demonstrates that intoleranc
152 Post contains images BMI727 : I think the supporters are the ones who refuse to understand what happened or their hand in it. A better term would be "enabler," and no you can't wi
153 Ken777 : You are avoiding my point - there is NO culture of child rape at Penn State. No less intelligent than many of your comments. The NCAA could have wait
154 Post contains links bjorn14 : And to add to the stupidity of non-contrition. PSU President Erickson tells one of the Sunday Morning news shows that "we're covered by insurance" for
155 BMI727 : Just a culture of "whatever happens behind closed doors is okay, as long as there is good football." Penn Staters don't want to see the conspiracy or
156 Ken777 : Wide ranging? You can count all of those who have been (or will be) indicted on your fingers. Sure they did. Just like they did with other Penn State
157 BMI727 : You haven't even gotten into the potential RICO investigation. There was the football, but there were also a lot of intertwined business deals betwee
158 kpitrrat : Really?! RICO... Im going to make popcorn for this one.
159 Post contains links BMI727 : There is a whole web of business deals involving people from Second Mile, PSU, and Paterno. Plus all of the money made by people involved with the fo
160 Post contains images Ken777 : RICO? Do you think the Federal Government is going to take over Penn State via RICO? Which means you are against state and federal officials providin
161 BMI727 : It isn't out of the realm of possibility. The Feds haven't even really started yet. You can already chalk up violations of the Clery Act and the Mann
162 Ken777 : That is a pretty odd phrase when you get down to it because universities traditionally have been about the teachers and the students, with the facult
163 BMI727 : ...of course to get tenure one has to play along for years. I didn't know that protecting rapists was a matter of intellectual freedom. Is being a pe
164 okie : Sorry Ken, the sanctions are against the football program, you trying to tie the student body to the sanctions just further instills the reason that
165 BMI727 : They aren't. The beauty of the death penalty is that the most ardent supporters who played the largest part in creating the overemphasis on football
166 Post contains images AirframeAS : I wasn't directing my question to you, sir. If that is the case, then the NCAA has zero business being in the business that they are in. How in the h
167 DeltaMD90 : I did very, very well in college, and my college doesn't have a football team. Just throwing it out there...
168 Post contains links BMI727 : IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THEY KNEW! It's an unintended consequence of a culture that placed too much emphasis on football and deified a man who was willi
169 AirframeAS : Why do you keep contradicting yourself on this thread. Arguing with you is getting pointless now, obviously only you think you're right in your assum
170 rampart : You were actually, as I hold the same opinion. Debating an issue, not an individual. Given that, I'm curious what you think of what I posted, and wha
171 BMI727 : Actually there are quite a few people with the same level of clarity and understanding of what happened at Penn State and agree. But you and others a
172 rampart : We don't often agree, but I think it's important to point out that while you are the most frequent "pro-sanction" responder, you aren't the only one.
173 kpitrrat : I think its safe to say that nobody here is trying to defend what Sandusky or Paterno did at this point. At least I dont. I want to see everyone in ja
174 rampart : I think we have to recognize that there are different levels here, and out-of-control generalization. First, Sandusky is obviously top level guilty t
175 bjorn14 : The continuing travesty is why Graham Spanier still has a job as a Professor in Human Development? I realize there are two different protocols adminis
176 BMI727 : It's not desire it's reality. It would be really nice if this were just one rogue football coach doing bad things to little boys, but it isn't. It to
177 Ken777 : I don't believe that my preference for criminal courts to handle the situation, with prison being the sentence from a guilty verdict, is protecting a
178 BMI727 : Criminal courts will handle the situation. You keep on saying this over and over but that does not make it true. You have not presented even a shred
179 rampart : Really, some decaf is in order. In my statement below... ...where do you conclude that I assume it has a single culture? There is one footballl progr
180 Ken777 : Hopefully without the NCAA presenting any more actions that can be used against the prosecutors. And you keep pretending that it is impossible for th
181 BMI727 : There is absolutely no evidence to indicate that it can impact the trials. Perhaps only as an attempt to keep the NCAA from being named as a defendan
182 Post contains images Ken777 : Yet. You can't prove it until the trial are over. Your brilliant mind might not convince Trial Lawyers. That you know of. We'll see. You hope. You ho
183 BMI727 : Do you really think that out of all the legions of lawyers retained by Penn State, the NCAA, the victims, Second Mile, the Big Ten, prosecutors and p
184 bjorn14 : The $60MM is an entirely seperate fund. The money will be used to go to already exsisting or to be set up charities for victims of child sex abuse. T
185 FlyPNS1 : Have you ever been to bar? Ever had a beer? If so, then you deserve to be punished for all the alcoholics who have been to bars, gotten drunk and the
186 BMI727 : No it's not. There's no parallel there at all.
187 FlyPNS1 : Why not? You believe that people who had NOTHING to do with the molestation should be punished purely because they happen to like football....because
188 BMI727 : It went way beyond liking football. Lots of people like football. If you look and see what goes on at Penn State, it's almost a cult. The hero worshi
189 FlyPNS1 : But all the hero worship in the world does not equate to guilt in the molestation of children. The guilt is on those who could have stopped it and ch
190 Ken777 : It is still cash that Penn State has had or will have that will go to victims. The civil trials will be about the victims. Basically the NCAA really
191 BMI727 : But the environment created by the ardent supporters is what motivated Paterno to cover it up and enabled him to do so. Like I said before, Paterno w
192 FlyPNS1 : That's your belief, but not a fact. Paterno might have just covered it up to try and "protect" a friend. Paterno might have covered it up just to pro
193 rampart : Obviously. Which is why Sandusky is in prison, why those implicated in the cover up will be liable and possibly (hopefully) in some shorter version o
194 Ken777 : Actually I believe that Paterno was simply a coward. Maybe afraid to "hurt" his image, but it's cowardice any way your look at it. Are you kidding? P
195 bjorn14 : It was about one thing and one thing only that was JoePa saving his job. He was going through the worst 4-year span of his career (26-37, 3 of 4 losi
196 BMI727 : And there you hit the nail on the head: his personal power at the school got out of control. And that excess of power can ultimately be traced back t
197 bjorn14 : Now 4 idiots from the BoT are suing the NCAA saying that the President didn't have the authority to negotiate the deal without the BoT signing off on
198 AirframeAS : Not surprised. This is what I was sort if hoping PSU would do. I hope they challenge the whole penalty in court and file a motion for a restraining o
199 LTBEWR : As I have suggested here and elsewhere, the penalty deal was really done by the lawyers, intentionally keeping the BoT out knowing they would make thi
200 Post contains links JetBlueGuy2006 : Also, now ex-players and a coach are also going after the NCAA http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/...-players-coach-appealing-sanctions I find it ama
201 BMI727 : They will have a hard time challenging the penalty. They can challenge Erickson's authority to cut the deal. Frankly, the situation should be resolve
202 AirframeAS : Not if the University asks the court to issue a temporary restraining order until all the dust settles with the criminal courts (Sandusky is done wit
203 Post contains images rampart : Too funny! You think they actually took a writing course from the English Department? Oh, it's not just the players saying this? Good grief! I think
204 BMI727 : What legal precedent is there for doing something like this? I don't see why a court would issue such an order and for that matter if I were in charg
205 AirframeAS : I don't understand why you keep fighting this, but I hope PSU prevails in some way against the NCAA. And I think they will. Your opinions are your ow
206 BMI727 : All of the rabid fans played a part in this, even if unwittingly. If you can't understand the role of culture and where Paterno's excessive power ult
207 Post contains images AirframeAS : Keep your head in the sand if that is the way you think: If one is guilty of something, so is everyone else. If that is what you think then there is
208 BMI727 : Because you're wrong.
209 AirframeAS : Awesome, you just admitted it and proved me correct and AGREED with me, I rest my case as follows...... See below: [Edited 2012-08-14 13:21:00]
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