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Opel To Sell Cadillac XTS In Europe As Opel Omega  
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5749 times:

According to the German auto press, General Motors will sell the (just-released to dealerships in the USA) Cadillac XTS luxury sedan in Europe. But there's the twist in this news - the car will NOT be sold as a CADILLAC. In fact, Opel is rumored to sell the XTS as its own “flagship” vehicle, slotting in above the current Insignia models.

And Opel may call their new luxury sedan — get this — the Opel Omega. Please do not confuse this long-time Opel moniker with the upcoming Cadillac rear-wheel drive full-sized "flagship" sedan that will be underpinned by the new GM code-named "Omega" RWD platform.

The rebadged "Epsilon 2" platform Opel Omega will likely keep the current XTS' 3.6-liter V6 engine which produces 304 hp and 264 lb-ft of torque, with the possibility of the Omega additionally utilizing a turbocharged 2.8-liter V6 with 321 hp. A twin-turbo 2.0-liter diesel with 192 hp and a healthy 292 lbs of torque is also "in the cards" for the Opel version. This next-gen Omega would be built in Germany at the same (under-utilized) assembly plant that builds it's smaller (shorter wheelbase) platform sister, the Opel Insignia. Stylingwise, the Omega would look very similar to the XTS, with different Opel grille, badging, and some differences to suspension tuning - and the previous mentioned wider engine choices. It's probable that Opel may only offer the all-wheel drive version of the XTS, according to press reports. The American Cadillac XTS with all-wheel drive sells for approximately $53,000 USD.

Now the question has become, will Cadillac offer diesel-powered XTS here in North America to compete against diesel E and S class Mercedes sedan models? Cadillac is (of course) making no comments on the XTS becomes the new Opel Omega rumor, nor the possibility of a diesel powered North American XTS...... we shall see.

Source and Photos: http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...ac-xts-serve-as-opels-new-flagship

[Edited 2012-07-24 20:44:28]

[Edited 2012-07-24 20:50:49]

[Edited 2012-07-24 21:08:07]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
82 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 965 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5723 times:

Very interesting news - but surely such a move would kill any idea of Cadillac as a premium vehicle in Europe, after many less than successful attempts?

User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5715 times:

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 1):
Very interesting news - but surely such a move would kill any idea of Cadillac as a premium vehicle in Europe

Not unless Cadillac has come to its collective senses and will only sell rear-wheel drive models in Europe, like the new ATS sports sedan and the existing CTS models. It seems to me that Cadillac will wait to market the new "flagship" RWD sedan in Europe, where it will compete with the BMW 7-series and Mercedes S-class - as well as the Jaguar XJ models, thus allowing Opel to market the "Omega" version of the XTS, since it is based on the home-grown Opel Insignia.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15745 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5702 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
And Opel may call their new luxury sedan — get this — the Opel Omega.

Serves them right for sending us the Catera. Payback's a bitch isn't it?

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
The American Cadillac XTS with all-wheel drive sells for approximately $53,000 USD.

Translate that to typical European prices and you're talking a pretty expensive underperforming car. Ugly too. I saw one the other day and it looks like a scrunched up Ford Fusion. I can't imagine why Europeans would like that more than an A6, E-Class, or 5 Series. I can't understand why Americans would either come to think of it.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineAA7295 From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 622 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5695 times:

I think it's silly!! Cadillac should only be Cadillac. Hasn't GM learnt their lesson on re-badging vehicles in different markets.

For goodness sake, streamline GM, streamline!!


User currently offlineIH8BY From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 1142 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5664 times:

Somewhat odd. Hasn't it become pretty much a given that you can't sell a premium-oriented large sedan under a traditional mass-market nameplate? However good the car is, people in the market for a car of that price most likely won't consider an Opel. I'm not saying that they shouldn't - people overlook a lot of great cars through badge snobbery - but the figures speak for themselves. BMW and Audi are even edging the mass-market manufacturers out on their own territory - for example, I believe the 3-series outsells the Ford Mondeo in the UK market - so a foray by Opel into the premium large sedan market is surely misguided at this point in time. Maybe in 10 years if their aspirations to move upmarket are realised.

However questionable Cadillac's reputation in Europe may be, it still has a brand cachet that Opel has yet to achieve.



Have you ever felt like you could float into the sky / like the laws of physics simply don't apply?
User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5661 times:

First they destroy the brand Opel and than they try to sell such a car on the European market – what are they smoking?  

[Edited 2012-07-25 00:02:41]


Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8841 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (2 years 1 month 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 5650 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):

According to the German auto press, General Motors will sell the (just-released to dealerships in the USA) Cadillac XTS luxury sedan in Europe. But there's the twist in this news - the car will NOT be sold as a CADILLAC. In fact, Opel is rumored to sell the XTS as its own “flagship” vehicle, slotting in above the current Insignia models.

Doesn't help anyone. The XTS is visually just about the must unattractive, unappealing car I can remember seeing. Seriously, can anyone here imagine spending more than $1,000 for this piece of crap?




Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10736 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5620 times:

Quoting AA7295 (Reply 4):
I think it's silly!! Cadillac should only be Cadillac. Hasn't GM learnt their lesson on re-badging vehicles in different markets.

For goodness sake, streamline GM, streamline!!
Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 6):

First they destroy the brand Opel and than they try to sell such a car on the European market – what are they smoking?

No chance to sell as an Opel. No one needing a big sedan and having the money will look into an Opel showroom. This is like the big Chrysler with Lancia badge, only that the Lancia is more noble than an Opel can ever be.
No chance to sell as a Cadillac in Europe as well. Apart from maybe Switzerland and the Netherlands US cars (with the exception of Jeeps) have a very low reputation in Germany.
Plus this Cadillac isnt a beauty, again. If for once since myriads of years Cadillac would build a car that aesthetically and technically could rival the competition then I´d give it a small chance, but this grandpa car - no way.


User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1835 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5613 times:

There we go again. No one buys a large sedan unless it has an expensive badge up front. They could just have called Renault and VW and saved the almost guaranteed sales embarassment.

I wonder why don't they call it the Senator, it was the bigger, more luxurious cousin to the Omega and sounds better for an supposedly luxury car.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15745 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 5613 times:

Quoting na (Reply 8):
This is like the big Chrysler with Lancia badge, only that the Lancia is more noble than an Opel can ever be.

Don't get me started on Chrysler/Lancia trying to sell the 300 in Europe. The Pentastar V6 isn't exactly a dog, but they're trying to sell the big American car without the big American engine. Like the Cadillac, you should just head to the local BMW or Mercedes dealer and save the time.

Quoting na (Reply 8):
If for once since myriads of years Cadillac would build a car that aesthetically and technically could rival the competition then I´d give it a small chance, but this grandpa car - no way.

In the US they've made great improvements, but they still aren't there. They started with the Escalade that started getting younger people into the fold, and the CTS is a good car for what it costs, (you could buy a CTS-V and have change left over for some work at Hennessey for what an M5 or E63 would cost) but Cadillac hasn't figured it out with the bigger cars yet. They've shown flashes like the Ciel concept, but then again there's also talk about the ELR, which would be an even more overpriced version of the already overpriced Chevy Volt/Opel Ampera.

Quoting na (Reply 8):
US cars (with the exception of Jeeps) have a very low reputation in Germany.

Europeans seem to like Vipers and Corvettes well enough. And they should considering what it costs to get one over there. In the UK a Camaro has a list price over $20,000 greater than here for a similar model.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10736 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5596 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
Don't get me started on Chrysler/Lancia trying to sell the 300 in Europe. The Pentastar V6 isn't exactly a dog, but they're trying to sell the big American car without the big American engine. Like the Cadillac, you should just head to the local BMW or Mercedes dealer and save the time.

The Lancia Thema isnt a bad car, it just isnt a Lancia. It has no Italian feel whatsoever, even the opposite. Italian means elegant, lighthanded, and not too big. The Thema is the opposite, a huge, hulky barge crying America. It has a superb interior though which actually looks better than Mercedes E, BMW 5 and Audi A6. Problem is, hardly anyone with the money will ever notice as the outside doesnt signal that at all.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
In the UK a Camaro has a list price over $20,000 greater than here for a similar model.

I dont get it. While US cars are extremely more expensive in Europe, European cars are cheaper in the US. Are we stupid Europeans subsidizing the US or what?

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
Europeans seem to like Vipers and Corvettes well enough.

Corvette and Mustang are doing reasonably well here. The Viper though is much rarer than even a Ferrari.


User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1835 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 5596 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
Europeans seem to like Vipers and Corvettes well enough

Only in posters.

Actual sales are extremely low compared to others in their class: 440 between camaros and corvettes for the whole of Europe in 2011.


User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7410 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 5579 times:

Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
And Opel may call their new luxury sedan — get this — the Opel Omega.

I don't see why the "get this" Opel has historically alsways called there large sedan Omega.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
The Pentastar V6 isn't exactly a dog, but they're trying to sell the big American car without the big American engine

Europeans rarely buy the big V8 versions from the Germans or Jaguar, they more often than not buy the 3.0 diesel, which is what Lancia are trying to sell. It doesn't make any sense at all for them to import the V8.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 10):
(you could buy a CTS-V and have change left over for some work at Hennessey for what an M5 or E63 would cost

The bloke who buys a CTS-V and has it modified is not the same buyer who will stump up for a M5, E63 or XF-R.


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2189 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5553 times:

First, before everyone gets upset, I would wait for something a little more official. Current reports may not necessarily be accurate.

Quoting na (Reply 11):
I dont get it. While US cars are extremely more expensive in Europe, European cars are cheaper in the US. Are we stupid Europeans subsidizing the US or what?

Cars in general are more expensive in Europe. Blame it on taxes. And while having 10 engines for each car gives consumers a lot more choices than here in the US, it increases the build complexity further driving up the price of the car.

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 13):
Europeans rarely buy the big V8 versions from the Germans or Jaguar, they more often than not buy the 3.0 diesel, which is what Lancia are trying to sell. It doesn't make any sense at all for them to import the V8.

   Hence why most of the luxury Germany companies (don't know about Jaguar) have rather popular badge delete options and created things like the S line and M sport. Europeans can be vain too.


User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7410 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5531 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 14):
it increases the build complexity further driving up the price of the car.

I don't think this is correct, for example the three series has multiple different engine option but in reality there are only 3, 4 cylinder petrol and diesel, 6 cylinder petrol and diesel and the M3 V8.


User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2613 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5500 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 15):
Quoting Polot (Reply 14):
it increases the build complexity further driving up the price of the car.

I don't think this is correct, for example the three series has multiple different engine option but in reality there are only 3, 4 cylinder petrol and diesel, 6 cylinder petrol and diesel and the M3 V8.



Way more complex than the usual North American offering: one, maximum two engine choices and a single transmission.

Back to the topic; I agree with everyone saying that introducing the XTS as Opel Omega in Europe is a bad idea. It brings a question: If they want to bring back old model names, why the Omega? Why not to import the Holden Commodore and sell it as Opel Commodore?


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2189 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5493 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 15):
I don't think this is correct, for example the three series has multiple different engine option but in reality there are only 3, 4 cylinder petrol and diesel, 6 cylinder petrol and diesel and the M3 V8.

That is a lot of engines.

In Europe the 3 series has the 316d putting out 116 hp, the 318d putting out 143hp, the 320d putting out 184hp, the 320d Efficient Dynamics versions putting out 163hp, the 330d putting out 258hp.You also got the 320 putting out 184hp, the 328 putting out 245hp, the 335 putting out 305 hp plus the M3 (the new one not yet available though) and the 3 series hybrid (not sure if it is currently out, but it is coming later this year).

That is 10 engines.

In the US? You got the 328, the 335, the hybrid, and the M3.

That is 4 engines (although I wouldn't be surprised to see the 330d eventually make it's way over here).

Just looking at BMW's UK page is enough to give a person a headache with all the various engines and trim levels, and having all those different options makes the car more expensive to produce for the European market.

[Edited 2012-07-25 11:17:30]

User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7410 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5480 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 17):
That is 10 engines.

Might be 10 engines but the 316d, 318d, 320d, 320d Ed are all the same engine, just different states of tune, the 320i & 328 are the same basic engine, as are the 330 & 335, ditto for the 330d & 335d, they are all built on automated production lines, it's not that complex, it's all done by computers.

Quoting Polot (Reply 17):


Just looking at BMW's UK page is enough to give a person a headache with all the various engines and trim levels, and having all those different options makes the car more expensive to produce for the European market.

It's not a problem, automated production, just in time parts delivery, the punter (me for example) chooses what they want at the dealer, this is then inputted into the production system and in 3 months out pops your car, this has nothing to do with why cars are more expensive in Europe that the US, that's due to taxes.

I've specified and purchased 6 cars in the past 6 years, all chosen with options I want, the idea of purchasing off the lot is not much fun, I want to choose exactly what my car is going to be like.


User currently offlineozglobal From France, joined Nov 2004, 2721 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5473 times:

I think this has to be a US board decision against the wishes of Opel. Noone in Europe rates American cars (perhaps other than a few exotic roadsters); They might be functional enough in the US, but most Americans would take European or Japanese over their local product if they had the money. This looks desperate and should be just another indignity to Opel's once great heritage.


When all's said and done, there'll be more said than done.
User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2613 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5467 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 18):
, that's due to taxes.

No. In many EU countries there are no other taxes on cars beside VAT. Therefore is very easy to calculate the pre-tax price and that's usually way higher compared to the USA.


User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 14026 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5467 times:

Quoting kiwirob (Reply 13):
Quoting stasisLAX (Thread starter):
And Opel may call their new luxury sedan — get this — the Opel Omega.

I don't see why the "get this" Opel has historically alsways called there large sedan Omega.

Not true. In the past they used to name their cars after naval ranks, with the smallest being the Kadett and the largest the Admiral.

Jan


User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7410 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 5451 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 21):
Not true. In the past they used to name their cars after naval ranks, with the smallest being the Kadett and the largest the Admiral.

So you're forgetting about the Omega produced from 86 until 03.


User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5430 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 14):
First, before everyone gets upset, I would wait for something a little more official. Current reports may not necessarily be accurate.

Thank god. With GM, no matter how bizarre something sounds, you have to fear that it might be true. I wouldn't even put a 5,13m AWD Omega past them.


User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3283 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (2 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5425 times:

Quoting ozglobal (Reply 19):
This looks desperate and should be just another indignity to Opel's once great heritage.

I've read that the Insignia assembly plant is functioning at well-below optimal level, and GM/Opel is trying to fill the void in capacity with the Omega/XTS model in order to keep the sales of the Insignia profitable. One must remember that Opel cannot close German production plants due to the bailout funds it received from some German states and Opel's iron-clad labor contacts. Opel is in a desperately BAD financial condition, and, as the cliche goes, desperate times call for desperate measures. The worst indignity to Opel would be to be closed completely by General Motors, and the workers at the various plants would bare the worst indignity.... unemployment.



"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
25 Post contains links Marcus : No it will not..... http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...adillac-xts-turns-into-opel-omega/
26 mham001 : Oh crap, here we go again. That fine Euro arrogance. Fact is, there are several Euro manufacturers who have left this market in shame. Shamed by poor
27 Post contains images BMI727 : It doesn't make much sense to sell the 300 there at all then. Considering European prices, why would anyone buy a Lancia/Chrysler when they could get
28 stasisLAX : If the Omega rumor is not true, then Opel's media relations department is being rather shady. When asked by the press about the Omega/XTS rumors, a s
29 Post contains images Dreadnought : No question, Cadillac has made some pretty spectacular advances technologically. A friend has the CTS-V station wagon, and it's pretty good, driving-
30 BMI727 : I've seen a guy driving around in one just like I'd get if I had $70,000 lying around: black coupe with black wheels. The thing looks like Darth Vade
31 kiwirob : All German tuning houses. I had an AC Schnitzer chip in my 3 series.
32 JJJ : VW sold 26% more cars in 2011 than 2010 (that's the VW marque, not counting Audis who also had strong growth), and build a shiny new plant. I'm sure
33 Post contains images ozglobal : mham001, please remember the thread title: selling Cadillacs in Europe via Opel is the topic at hand. Not Smarts or small Fiats. On this topic there
34 racko : He said "No comment". Which is the standard response to pretty much all but the most outrageous rumors, because denying all false rumors leaves you w
35 Post contains images mham001 : Actually, no they are not. The entire VW group has less than 5% market share here. Interestingly, there is only 1 European car in the top 30 here, th
36 kiwirob : That's there only market, they failed every time they have tried selling outside of North America, Cadillacs just aren't good enough.
37 ozglobal : We get it, you don't like hearing criticism of US brands. The discussion, however, is about selling US brands in the European, car market. My argumen
38 kiwirob : The fact is Europeans don't want them, GM has tried to lunch Cadillac about three times since the early 90's and failed every time.
39 BMI727 : Yes they are. Brabus does some pretty insane stuff too. It's nice that having a tuner car no longer means poor reliability and driveability. Some pla
40 kiwirob : Without diesels they need not bother. Brabus like (Ruf and Alpina) aren't tuners, they are manufacturers.
41 Post contains images ozglobal : When, on earth, was Cadillac "the standard of the WORLD"? That would have either been Rolls Royce, Daimler, Bently, Mercedes, Jaguar, BMW, Maybach, L
42 Polot : Cadillac was often regarded as the standard of the world up to the 60s. That doesn't necessarily mean they were the best, but they were often conside
43 BMI727 : They would definitely need to do that and I doubt the investment would be worth it anyway. Even offering a four cylinder gasoline engine would probab
44 kiwirob : Pre World War 2 Cadillac along with Lincoln, Pierce Arrow, Auburn, Cord, Dusenberg, Packard built some of the finest automobiles that have ever grace
45 ozglobal : Umh, I get that they once made top quality cars , between WWI and WWII and were recognized for it. But USA doss not equal 'the world'. I'm not sure C
46 Post contains links JJJ : Do you really think VW worries about market share? This is what they care for: "German giant Volkswagen AG posted a first-quarter profit of $4.2 bill
47 Post contains images oldeuropean : "Standart of the world"? Yeah, but only in the US. What a pity, that nobody outside the US knew that. [Edited 2012-07-27 02:23:26]
48 Polot : It is just a saying that people said, it is not like someone objectively decided that it was true, just like BMW's "Ultimate Driving Machine." And in
49 kiwirob : You're forgetting where the car was invented, I'll give you a hint, it wasn't in the US. American cars weren't better in the first half of the 20th c
50 Polot : Yes, I am aware that the first modern car was made in Europe. It is hard (and ridiculous) to argue that one company was better on a global scale than
51 ozglobal : No,I think that you are just having trouble seeing that terms like 'best in the World' that roll off the tounge so freely in the US don't make sense
52 Polot : Its marketing. US companies do it, European companies do it (Ryanair "World's Favourite" Airline anyone?). It is possible to not take everything so l
53 kiwirob : European cars didn't fail outside of Europe in the first half of the 20th century, where do you think most of the worlds cars came from outside of No
54 Post contains links mham001 : Yes it was the question. You stated 'those poor rednecks would all buy European cars if only they could afford them'. I really don't want to turn thi
55 Flighty : We respect foreign cars very well in the US. Arguably US cars are under-rated now, globally, including in the US. Since the US is a declining percent
56 ozglobal : They haven't been focused only at home for over half a century. We're speaking about product, not just talent. The products are not equivalent by the
57 mham001 : Define "equivalent" please. Equivalent quality? Reliability? Aesthetics, ergonomics? Performance? Holden lost all credibility. Their management shoul
58 IH8BY : Why? Chevrolet and Cadillac have little brand value in Europe, and Buick is practically unknown. Relatively weak as their brand image is, Opel and Va
59 OzGlobal : Right, and the fact that Flighty is suggesting is a perfect demonstration of the same misguided thinking that is pressing GM to propose it (if they i
60 racko : Ford is seen as German in Germany. If you ask your average Joe on the streets here: "Where's Ford from?" the answer will most likely be "Cologne". Ma
61 Post contains links BMI727 : Cadillac's record of dropping diesels in their cars isn't the greatest. This would seem to indicate otherwise, but some of the mods do say they need
62 Flighty : GM's European unit loses money and should be entirely shut down. It lacks sustainable business prospects. Detroit knows this and is only considering
63 Post contains images stasisLAX : General Motors has already embraced this, at least as far as their Buick division is concerned. Buick USA senior management has stated numerous times
64 mham001 : Good point. I am fully willing to look at it with an open mind and accept that things can change. Why can't you with Cadillac? Should mention too tha
65 kiwirob : No they don't, there's not a single product made by US manufacturers that matches the product made by Mercedes and VW, especially at the top end of t
66 ozglobal : Americans don't drive BMWs or VWs made in the same factories as Europeans. e.g US BMWs are made largely in Mex, I believe. Europeans drive German bui
67 Polot : I don't believe BMW imports Mexican made cars into the US. All their cars here are made in Germany, South Africa (some 3 series models) or here in th
68 777ER : The Holden Commodore (Australia and New Zealand model) is sold in different markets and works well as a Chevy.
69 KiwiRob : But all the One Ford models were designed and engineered in Europe, that's the difference between Ford and GM.
70 Marcus : The only brands that manufacture in Mexico are... Ford GM Chrysler FIAT VW Toyota Honda Nissan Soon you will be able to add to this list... Mazda Audi
71 JJJ : I never said that, and it's not the first time you're misquoting me. I just said Americans have long commutes which, compared to ours, is a simple fa
72 BMI727 : True. They would have to, but if they really want to push Cadillacs in Europe as Opels or anything else, why send the XTS? It's a (second) crappy int
73 petertenthije : The jokes have already started in the Netherlands. For instance saying that Chevrolet and Wayne Rooney are a perfect combination. Both are overweight
74 stasisLAX : Indeed, the auto press hates the Versa (the sedan in particular) but it sells rather well in America due to its less than $12000 USD price tag - chea
75 KiwiRob : It doesn't really matter what model of Cadillac they decide to sell in Europe badged as an Opel, it's not going to sell anyway, when a European wants
76 WildcatYXU : Not only in the USA. Just look at Dacia sales in Europe. And then talk about sophisticated European cars... Which sedan does the press hate? The old
77 mham001 : Not sure what that means in the context of keeping Holden alive, I would hope GM management cares to fire those in charge. That is all model specific
78 Post contains links WildcatYXU : This one? http://www.roadandtrack.com/var/ezfl...sa-sedan-1_gallery_image_large.jpg Because if it's this one, it has nothing to do with Europe. But t
79 KiwiRob : If by TDI sportwagon you mean the Jetta, they are all made in Mexico, even the Euro market ones. The Touraeg is made in Europe.
80 racko : Well they are reportedly paying more than twice as much as AON, ManUtd's current shirt sponsor, is paying per season, plus a giant signing fee. Class
81 KiwiRob : Audi's CVT is very good.
82 JJJ : What european?, it's a cheap Nissan designed to be sold for peanuts in Thailand and Angola, nothing more. You might want to check your own sources, c
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Every Airport Flier To Be Fingerprinted In Europe posted Mon Aug 21 2006 21:58:12 by KarlB737
Most Reasonably Priced Places To Live In Europe? posted Wed Jan 25 2006 18:55:47 by AerospaceFan
Where To Go In Europe? posted Tue Feb 24 2004 14:59:54 by Matt D
Best Place To Live In Europe? posted Fri Feb 13 2004 22:43:44 by Keesje
"New IPad" For Use In Europe (PAYG SIM) posted Mon Jul 2 2012 17:56:52 by MOlykote
Mercedes To Sell Electric B-class In USA In 2014 posted Mon Jul 2 2012 17:41:34 by stasisLAX
Any Levitation Trains In Europe? posted Mon Jan 3 2011 20:53:46 by United Airline