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Marriage Equality In New Zealand?  
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25455 posts, RR: 86
Posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3628 times:
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A bill allowing same-sex marriage is to go forward to the Parliament and may - may - be passed:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10822370

I think it would be a great think for those who want it, although I don't want or intend to get married.

I'm one of the subversives - I regard myself as "queer" not "gay."

When I first came to terms with my sexuality I saw it as a great gift - the freedom to love whomever I wanted for a long as it lasted - regardless of gender. I could even to love more than one person at the same, as happened (with a bloke and a woman) one magic summer.

But it is about equality of opportunity - you can not you must - and so I hope it passes.

mariner

[Edited 2012-07-25 21:41:03]


aeternum nauta
53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKent350787 From Australia, joined May 2008, 967 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3621 times:

Hopefully it passes in NZ and then Aussie politics can get past appealing to bigotry and do the same. Maybe some politicians on both sides of the dutch could also be more open about their sexuality.

User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5681 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3617 times:

Quoting mariner (Thread starter):
I regard myself as "queer" not "gay."

Go Queer's!

Wishing good luck to you queer New Zealanders!   

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25455 posts, RR: 86
Reply 3, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3610 times:
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Quoting tugger (Reply 2):
Go Queer's!

Too right, mate!  

There is hope that it will pass - even the Young Nationals (right of centre) are pressing the government:

http://tvnz.co.nz/politics-news/conf...-marriage-bill-get-through-4988497

"The Young Nats have also come out in support of the Bill, and will be lobbying National MPs.

"Our generation overwhelmingly supports marriage equality for all New Zealanders and our Members of Parliament need to vote with that in mind," Young Nats President, Sean Topham, said."


mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7275 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 3563 times:

If someone wants to endure the perils of marriage then good luck to them, abject misery shouldn't be reserved to heteros IMO.

User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7587 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 3550 times:

Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 1):
Maybe some politicians on both sides of the dutch could also be more open about their sexuality.

We've had a fair number of openly gay politicians in NZ, we even had a transexual MP. We're probalby about more liberated than you lot over there.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25455 posts, RR: 86
Reply 6, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 3522 times:
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Quoting Kent350787 (Reply 1):
Hopefully it passes in NZ and then Aussie politics can get past appealing to bigotry and do the same.

Then again - if it passes, maybe NZ tourism could sell it in Australia. It might produce some financial benefit, although not in the same league as New York:

http://www.latimes.com/business/mone...riage-nyc-20120725,0,5772968.story

"Gay marriages: $259-million economic boost to NYC in one year

One year after New York made same-sex marriage legal in the state, a report backed by New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg found that the Marriage Equality Act boosted the economy by $259 million in NYC alone."


But Queenstown could probably do well out of it.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4025 posts, RR: 28
Reply 7, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3501 times:

Quoting mariner (Thread starter):
But it is about equality of opportunity - you can not you must - and so I hope it passes.

So does that mean single people will no longer be discriminated against compared to married people? Or is it just like Animal Farm, where some are more equal than others?



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlineflipdewaf From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 3488 times:
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Quoting Pyrex (Reply 7):
So does that mean single people will no longer be discriminated against compared to married people? Or is it just like Animal Farm, where some are more equal than others?

It'll probably remain the same, same as many other things if it is seen as being a benefit to society/economy/environment etc then it will be taxed/benefited accordingly.

Different issue so for a different thread I suppose.

Fred


User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4025 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3481 times:

Quoting flipdewaf (Reply 8):
Different issue so for a different thread I suppose.

Not really, the word equality is being bounced around as if it means something so it is relevant to understand who exactly is "equal" and who is not.



Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1278 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3472 times:

Very interesting, I really hope it passes (though without any adoption amendments). That said, I think there might be a blood bath when it comes to debating and voting on the legislation. This will be a conscience vote so not necessarily along party lines. I'm sure Family First will put significant efforts into lobbying against it. Also, it will be interesting to see which way the Prime Minister votes - he voted against the civil union legislation (back in 2005ish) on the pretence that his electorate was against it.

Quoting mariner (Reply 3):
There is hope that it will pass - even the Young Nationals (right of centre) are pressing the government

I (and the political party's youth wing to which I belong) were all quite surprised by this. It was actually the Young Nats who brought this issue up when they passed a remit in support of gay-marriage a few months ago - I happen to know a couple of people who were involved.



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently onlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6625 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (2 years 3 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3450 times:
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Quoting Pyrex (Reply 7):
So does that mean single people will no longer be discriminated against compared to married people? Or is it just like Animal Farm, where some are more equal than others?
Quoting Pyrex (Reply 9):

Not really, the word equality is being bounced around as if it means something so it is relevant to understand who exactly is "equal" and who is not.

What are you talking about? Its like your saying you same sex marriage equality should never happen because oranges and strawberries will never be equal.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25455 posts, RR: 86
Reply 12, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3407 times:
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Quoting Pyrex (Reply 7):
So does that mean single people will no longer be discriminated against compared to married people? Or is it just like Animal Farm, where some are more equal than others?
Quoting Pyrex (Reply 9):
Not really, the word equality is being bounced around as if it means something so it is relevant to understand who exactly is "equal" and who is not.

Um - I used "equality of opportunity" so I'm not sure what you mean. If it passes, then yes - as I see it - all single people will have equality of opportunity in the marriage stakes.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7931 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3400 times:

I really (really) don't want to start a war here, but I am actually surprised NZ (and now that I looked it up, a lot of European countries) don't have gay marriage. I thought most these countries legalized it already as 90% of the people from these countries seem to be in favor of it. Why hasn't same-sex marriage (as opposed to civil unions) been legalized in these countries and why does America get such a bad rap considering ~50% of the US population is for it and we lack gay marriage just like most Western countries?

Again, not trying to sling mud, it just peaked my curiosity.

Hope this bill gets passed!



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25455 posts, RR: 86
Reply 14, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3392 times:
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Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):
I really (really) don't want to start a war here, but I am actually surprised NZ (and now that I looked it up, a lot of European countries) don't have gay marriage. I thought most these countries legalized it already as 90% of the people from these countries seem to be in favor of it.

That's quite a recent phenomenon - at least in NZ. When the Civil Unions bill was passed there was a huge hoo-haa, and the PM had to insist (pointlessly, it didn't stop the media) that it wasn't "marriage."

The rapid acceptance of marriage equality, at least in the polls, has surprised many.

And it is still a bitter political debate across the ditch in Oz, where the majority of the population is "for" same-sex marriage, but most states don't even have civil unions and the PM, the leader of the Labor party (the party of fraternal "equality), an atheist spinster cohabiting with a man, is against same sex marriage on religious grounds. Dos she thus consider she is "living in sin" with her partner?

Sometimes you can only shake your head in wonder.  

mariner

[Edited 2012-07-26 13:39:06]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineTheCommodore From Australia, joined Dec 2007, 2896 posts, RR: 8
Reply 15, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3359 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 6):
But Queenstown could probably do well out of it.

Hope so, its a beautiful part of the world alright.

And maybe it could be renamed Queertown   

NZ is such a progressive little place in so many respects. If only Australia could get its act together.

So, I too, wish all gays and queers in NZ, the best, and I hope this bill passes.   

[Edited 2012-07-26 14:43:17]


Flown 905,468 kms or 2.356 times to the moon, 1296 hrs, Longest flight 10,524 kms
User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4280 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3332 times:

Although it is a small sample size, all the people I've talked to in Wellington are in favour of the proposed bill. It also sounds like the bill will survive the first reading with near unanimous support (Labour, Nationals, Greens . . . even Turia, Dunne and Harawira have said they are likely to support it). I've only found two MPs who have said they plan to vote against it.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20007 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3325 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 9):
Not really, the word equality is being bounced around as if it means something so it is relevant to understand who exactly is "equal" and who is not.

It means that if you choose to marry the partner of your choice, then you are legally permitted to do so.

I've read your argument before that marriage discriminates against single people, therefore gays should not be allowed to get married. Yes, that IS your argument. You throw a lot more words into it, but that's the redux.


User currently offlineBNE From Australia, joined Mar 2000, 3187 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3326 times:

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 15):
NZ is such a progressive little place in so many respects. If only Australia could get its act together.

I agree with you on with that.

What is interesting in Australian politics is that the Labor government formed a minority government with the support of an Australian Greens, Bob Brown the leader of the Australian greens up until 13 April 2012, is openly gay.

Interestingly the leader of the opposition, Tony Abbot his sister is a lesbian, so you would think that maybe some politicians just want to bury their heads in the sand.

You couldn't make this story up even if you tried, I have included a few wiki links.



Why fly non stop when you can connect
User currently offlinekiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8584 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3292 times:
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Please New Zealand, don't screw this opportunity up. It would be great to see us join the ranks of civilised countries, but make no mistake about it, even with widespread support from the general public this legislation is not guaranteed to make it into law.

People who are opposed to marriage equality will fight tooth and claw to block this, we need to make sure that the politicians understand that turning this down is not only a slap in the face to the queer community in New Zealand, but also to our friends and families. If they think that blocking equality is only going to piss off a few hundred thousand gay men and women they might be inclined to do it, but if each of us mobilises 5 or 6 (or more) of our straight friends or family to email their MP hopefully the politicians will realise that a lot more votes might be at stake. Those opposed will do anything possible to make their numbers seem as large as possible and I believe the biggest threat to this bill is apathy from the general public who in general are in favour of marriage equality, but probably can't be bothered to say or do anything to push for it.



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21495 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 3281 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 13):

I really (really) don't want to start a war here, but I am actually surprised NZ (and now that I looked it up, a lot of European countries) don't have gay marriage. I thought most these countries legalized it already as 90% of the people from these countries seem to be in favor of it. Why hasn't same-sex marriage (as opposed to civil unions) been legalized in these countries and why does America get such a bad rap considering ~50% of the US population is for it and we lack gay marriage just like most Western countries?

Probably because "marriage" as a label is much less of an issue once the practical discrimination has been eliminated under the label of "domestic partnership" or similar. There is much less focus on religious issues here, and very little of the open hatred and active push for discrimination which are still virulent in the US and which create most of the conflict in this matter.


User currently offlinezkojq From New Zealand, joined Sep 2011, 1278 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3273 times:

Quoting texan (Reply 16):
I've only found two MPs who have said they plan to vote against it.

Which ones were those?

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 15):
NZ is such a progressive little place in so many respects.

One of the many reasons why I'm a proud Kiwi.  



Air New Zealand; first to fly the Boeing 787-9. ZK-NZE, NZ103 AKL-SYD, 2014/08/09. I was 83rd to board.
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1887 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3269 times:

I'm with DeltaMD90 here. I thought gay marriage was already on the books in New Zealand!

Either way, this is great news, and I hope it passes.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 7):
So does that mean single people will no longer be discriminated against compared to married people?

Are you arguing that marriage discriminates against single people, or did I misinterpret that?

Quoting TheCommodore (Reply 15):
And maybe it could be renamed Queertown

Call it what you want, it's still one of my favourite places in the world  



Flying refined.
User currently offlinetexan From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 4280 posts, RR: 52
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3259 times:

Quoting zkojq (Reply 21):
Quoting texan (Reply 16):I've only found two MPs who have said they plan to vote against it.
Which ones were those?

National's Chester Borrows and NZ First MP Richard Prosser.

Texan



"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
User currently offlinepacificjourney From New Zealand, joined Jul 2001, 2734 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3248 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 6):
But Queenstown could probably do well out of it.

Good one ! Then there is where I live, Whakapapa (pronounced fuk-a-papa), could work for the racy set ?



" Help, help ... I'm being oppressed ... "
25 Pyrex : If you want to defend gay marriage go right ahead, just don't through the word equality into it. It is like the Puritans saying they fled England to
26 DocLightning : Yeah they do. It would mean that I am as equally entitled to marry the consenting adult of my choice as you are. I don't know why I bother arguing wi
27 Post contains links and images mariner : Oh. I thought "Queens Town" was quite subtle. And, of course, this joker - not an MP but a voice - has chimed in: http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/con
28 Kent350787 : I was alluding to a very high profile politician, of course. I just wish Australians were as positve and less actively bigoted as Kiwis.
29 Post contains images TheCol :
30 mariner : You keep missing the qualifiers. They did flee England to escape persecution - of themselves - as "protestants" against the established Church. Equal
31 kiwiinoz : What a bizarre line of reasoning. But humouring you, I guess you are right. Marriage rights for people in a gay or straight partnership DOES discrimi
32 MD11Engineer : About 20 years ago I knew a gay Australian, who was living in Berlin since many years and working as a nurse. He told me that he came from rural New
33 mariner : I wonder where he lived? I know there is poofter bashing in Australia, but it's never happened to me. I make no secret of my sexuality, never have, a
34 rampart : I've heard and understand the "single discrimination" argument before. There are certain disadvantages in income taxes (does that apply anywhere othe
35 Post contains links and images zkojq : Interesting piece from Partick Gower saying that most National MPs will vote the same way as John Key: http://www.3news.co.nz/Opinion-Keys-...1382/art
36 rampart : Ah, very good point. That should be next on the agenda. It's already a struggle for same-sex partners to do so. And may continue to be regardless of
37 Post contains images DocLightning : The correct answer is "True. Probably get more fucken than you do, too."
38 Aesma : I'm guessing the bad rap comes from the UK where there is gay marriage. Also, I don't think most western countries, when they don't have gay marriage
39 kiwiandrew : There is not gay marriage in the UK, although one part of the UK, Scotland, has committed to introducing it in 2015. At the moment the UK only has "C
40 Aesma : You're right I got confused somehow, even though I read about it a couple weeks ago.
41 Post contains links mariner : Absolutely predictably, the opposing forces are girding their loins, the Evangelist noted above and the Catholic church. I'm waiting for the (self app
42 DocLightning : IIRC, he first country to introduce it was The Netherlands, followed shortly by Spain. Yes, Spain. That former backward dictatorship run by the Catho
43 kiwiandrew : Close Doc, but you missed Belgium (2003) after the Netherlands but before Spain.
44 DocLightning : I don't wonder at all. Remember, he doesn't have to tell the truth. He can lie through his teeth as long as his followers believe him. I bet that non
45 kiwiandrew : Sorry Doc, 2005 for Spain. I was actually living in Belgium at the time and felt quite pleased that it was introduced on my birthday that year.
46 MD11Engineer : Sorry, my bad, I last met the bloke back in 1990. He was not from NSW, but from rural Queensland. Jan
47 bueb0g : The whole of the UK plans to introduce gay marriage by 2015.
48 DocLightning : July 3, 2005. For some reason I had July 5, 2003 stuck in my head. There ya go.
49 Post contains links mariner : And now - Vietnam? http://www.npr.org/2012/07/29/157561...iders-legalizing-same-sex-marriage "Vietnam Considers Legalizing Same-Sex Marriage" Knock me
50 texan : John Key has stated he plans to support the measure throughout. Texan
51 kiwiandrew : I just about had to pinch myself to see whether I was awake when I saw that. I have been back in NZ for about two and half years, and in that time I
52 Post contains links and images mariner : And now Tasmania is in on the act: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...w-gay-marriage-20120804-23m6n.html "Tasmania may become the first Australian
53 Quokkas : It certainly would be. Marriage is one of the areas where the Commonwealth has power to make laws under s. 51 of the Constitution. The States may als
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