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How Is This Abuse Of Power Not A Crime?  
User currently offlinePyrex From Portugal, joined Aug 2005, 4059 posts, RR: 30
Posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6119 times:

So apparently there is this big bru-ha-ha going on over something someone at Chick-Fil-A has said. Don't really know what it was, don't really care, that is not what is at question here.

http://www.boston.com/business/news/.../FWZEhX8jLqiQm04ZH5PMTL/story.html

http://www.boston.com/business/news/.../Qnx4ngfLZveFOwtv0w0u0O/story.html

Senior elected officials in at least two cities (Boston and Chicago) have vowed to keep them away from opening up shop in their cities because they didn't like what was said. Take notice - they are not blocking them from opening stores because of some health and safety violation, or some zoning infringement, which would be in their power, I guess. They are basically publicly admitting to abusing the power entrusted in them by arbitrarily targeting a specific business because they don't like it, at the very least an impeachable offense if not a criminal act. Can you imagine the uproar that would rightfully happen if some Republican Mayor vowed to ban the opening of a Ben & Jerry's store because he or she doesn't like their political leaning?

And liberals wonder why conservatives have a natural distrust of government. When an elected government official can come out and say something like this publicly without any repercussion whatsoever, just imagine the untold damage your garden variety faceless bureaucrat with a grudge can inflict.


Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
148 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21861 posts, RR: 55
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6103 times:

If Chick-fil-A really wanted to open up stores in Boston or Chicago, I doubt the objections of Menino and whoever the other guy is would stand up in a court. So it's just hot air coming out of a politician, which is nothing new.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6076 times:

Normally I find your posts like nails on the chalkboard, but i'm largely inclined to agree here, i don't like the precedent and general principle behind it. There are tons of ways to keep an establishment away, but this shouldn't be one of them. I think its more about influence than teeth behind their words, but I sure wouldn't like to see it the other way around, true.


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2759 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6036 times:

What's potentially interesting here is that Alderman Moreno in Chicago goes on record saying he doesn't want Chick-Fil-A because he doesn't like their politics. The article later says,

He said he was not worried about being sued. First, he said, there are well-documented traffic and congestion issues in the Logan Square neighborhood that he could raise to justify his decision.

But in a lawsuit, is that really going to be his escape, when he's already gone on record saying his real reason to block the restaurant is something else?



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlineJJJ From Spain, joined May 2006, 1889 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6014 times:

Well a public servant derelicting his duty (and ensuring equal conditions for new business openings is one) is a crime.

But they haven't got there yet, it's just a loudmouth politician.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13195 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5966 times:

Last week at another site, I made a comment that I thought some cities as well as mall operators would take actions to deny Chick-Fil-A and other companies operating in their cities and malls if they have corporate policies or leaders that discriminate or show prejudice against GLTB's. Chick-Fil-A also clearly shows openly Christian views in the process of selecting and training of franchisees and doesn't allow stores to be open on Sundays as part of their core beliefs. Some of these and other cities like San Francisco and New York have also denied Walmart from building and operating stores over their anit-union and labor issues. Yet these same politics say OK to Target which is not better than Walmart as to the pay and anti-union attitudes or McDonald's a major purveyor of bad/junk food which is damaging to he health of millions.

The reality is that politicians bashing Chick-Fil-A are not doing anything illegal, they are just looking for a cheap way to get votes of a very vocal group, GLTB's, by bashing a company with attitudes that GLTB's find very offensive.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25690 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5918 times:
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Quoting ltbewr (Reply 5):
The reality is that politicians bashing Chick-Fil-A are not doing anything illegal, they are just looking for a cheap way to get votes of a very vocal group, GLTB's, by bashing a company with attitudes that GLTB's find very offensive.

This GLBT(Q) doesn't find what the Chick-Fil-A CEO said offensive at all, it's his right to say pretty much anything he wants - same for politicians.

I thought it was a pretty stupid thing for the CEO to say - unless he's been asleep for twenty years he must have known there would be backlash.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5852 times:

This is a pretty complicated question, really. At what point does the population expect/require the government to intervene in matters like this.

For instance, if I privately owned a restaurant and openly stated that one of my core beliefs was the superiority of the white race and the critical importance of maintaining racial purity (these are NOT my beliefs LOL), would/should my establishment be welcome? Would non-white people and/or interracial couples think that was acceptable?

My attitude is uphold the First Amendment and let the market decide, but not everyone can handle genuine freedom of speech when it is unpalatable.

As for Chick Fil A, I don't like the 'cut of their jib' at all and would most likely never go into one other than to use the men's room (if I had explosive diahhrea).


User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1932 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5843 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
How Is This Abuse Of Power Not A Crime?

Well, the only way it could be a crime is if it actually happens, which it hasn't. So far we just have politicians blowing hot air to make a statement. I don't like what the President of Chick-fil-A said, but it's not a mayor's place to go off like this (especially in such major cities).

But with that said, the BoD needs to re-visit this Dan Cathy guy's conduct. This guy is paid to run a company, not run his mouth. If I were a stakeholder in this company I would not be pleased that a C-level manager is making politicized statements. Profitability and growth need to be a priority over personal biases.



Flying refined.
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8764 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5810 times:

Lately, you would think Democrats object to Chick-Fil-A because it is not a government program funded by debt. Plus, it makes a profit off of workers by selling goods for money. Practically a human rights violation.

User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5651 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5800 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 8):
But with that said, the BoD needs to re-visit this Dan Cathy guy's conduct. This guy is paid to run a company, not run his mouth. If I were a stakeholder in this company I would not be pleased that a C-level manager is making politicized statements. Profitability and growth need to be a priority over personal biases.

Chick-fil-A is a privately held company and does not have a board of directors, it has an executive committee (6 one way, half dozen another). Not sure what a 'C' level manager is, but Mr. Cathy is the COO of Chick-fil-A and is well within his rights as the COO to make whatever statement he wants.

So long as Chick-fil-A does not discriminate against its employees or customers, I don't see where the mayor and the council can legally prevent Chick-fil-A from expanding in Boston, especially since they are on the record saying what they said.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 7):
This is a pretty complicated question, really. At what point does the population expect/require the government to intervene in matters like this.

Again, so long as the entity involved does not break the law, it is not the government's business. The public can 'vote' with their wallets and refuse to do business with the entity in question.

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 7):
but not everyone can handle genuine freedom of speech when it is unpalatable.

And, that would be that particular person's or group's problem.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 4):
But they haven't got there yet, it's just a loudmouth politician

Exactly, someone trying to make political hay over someone else's convictions, whether that someone is a person or a business entity.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1932 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5792 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
Chick-fil-A is a privately held company and does not have a board of directors
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
Mr. Cathy is the COO of Chick-fil-A and is well within his rights as the COO to make whatever statement he wants

I wasn't aware they were private. But knowing that now, I guess he can say whatever he wants as long as it is in line with the other owners' views. But I still maintain that a smart business leader won't want to rile feathers within it's (potential and existing) customer base.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
Not sure what a 'C' level manager is

"C-level executive" may have been a more accurate way to put it. It's basically what it says: any executive with a CXX title, like CEO, COO, CFO, etc.



Flying refined.
User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5651 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5785 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 11):
But I still maintain that a smart business leader won't want to rile feathers within it's (potential and existing) customer base.

Agreed, but, up to them. And, it's up to the consumer to decide whether the entity's political (is it political or religious or cultural?) position is compatible with where the consumer wants to spend his money.

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 11):
"C-level executive" may have been a more accurate way to put it. It's basically what it says: any executive with a CXX title, like CEO, COO, CFO, etc.

Yeah, I picked up on that later on. Only 2 cups of coffee in this am.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 5774 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
Again, so long as the entity involved does not break the law, it is not the government's business. The public can 'vote' with their wallets and refuse to do business with the entity in question.
Quoting fr8mech (Reply 10):
And, that would be that particular person's or group's problem.

For the record I am with you on both counts above. As long as they aren't yelling the proverbial "fire" in a crowded movie theater people or companies should have the freedom to be as much of a douchebag as they like without government interference. In fact I don't see how government could possibly claim the 'moral high ground' when it comes to regulating douche baggery!

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 11):
But I still maintain that a smart business leader won't want to rile feathers

Well played my friend, well played indeed.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20335 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5727 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
If Chick-fil-A really wanted to open up stores in Boston or Chicago, I doubt the objections of Menino and whoever the other guy is would stand up in a court. So it's just hot air coming out of a politician, which is nothing new.

Bingo. At least in MA, however, Chick-fil-A will need to recognize same-sex marriages among their employees and provide benefits accordingly. The mayor could have simply made that clear.

Quoting mariner (Reply 6):
This GLBT(Q) doesn't find what the Chick-Fil-A CEO said offensive at all, it's his right to say pretty much anything he wants - same for politicians.

I think it's very offensive. And as a result I will not eat at CFA. Which is a pity because their food is delicious (you can't eat for a week before having a single waffle fry, but it's really nom!).

However, I agree that he has a right to say it. That said, good luck to him if he ever wants to open a branch in Germany with that kind of corporate policy. And with an increasing number of American adults supporting gay marriage and vehemently opposing homophobia, that was a horrible business decision for him to make.

Now, absolutely ON-TOPIC video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sO-msplukrw

Listen carefully to the lyrics. I've not laughed so hard in a very long time.  rotfl 

[Edited 2012-07-26 09:13:56]

User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11796 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5705 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 6):
This GLBT(Q) doesn't find what the Chick-Fil-A CEO said offensive at all, it's his right to say pretty much anything he wants - same for politicians.

Yes, he has the right to say whatever he wants and to run his company any way he wants within the law. That means: he can not order his franchises to deny employment based on sexual orientation and, in some states, must extend benefits to same sex partners. Both of which he is on the record as being against.

At the same time ANY politician has the right to voice their own opinion. If the mayor of Boston says his opinion is he will not allow CFA to open, why is that opinion an issue? Are elected officials not allowed to have opinions?

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
Chick-fil-A will need to recognize same-sex marriages among their employees and provide benefits accordingly.

Not gonna happen with this current CEO.

BTW, I ate at Chick-Fil-A once 12 years ago. It was awful. The taste and presentation and price were all a perfect storm of awful. ARCO/AM-PM does better chicken sandwiches.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 515 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5691 times:

Quoting SmittyOne (Reply 14):
In fact I don't see how government could possibly claim the 'moral high ground' when it comes to regulating douche baggery!

Somehow I found this line very funny..  



'What's it doing now?'
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12938 posts, RR: 25
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5691 times:

Quoting Pyrex (Thread starter):
How Is This Abuse Of Power Not A Crime?

It is an abuse and maybe in theory a crime, but in the case of Boston, no jury would ever convict.

Rightly or wrongly, it's just how things are done in Beantown.

It reminds me of the situation where Bob Kraft wanted to build the new Patriots stadium in South Boston. The problem with Kraft was that he went in high-profile, and didn't grease the right palms and kiss the right butts, so even though the project would have been wonderful for the city, he was shown the door, and he had to resort to offering up Hartford as a strawman to even get the state to pay for road and sewer improvements in Foxborough.

Quoting Mir (Reply 1):
So it's just hot air coming out of a politician, which is nothing new.

Wrong. If Menino has the public on his side the store will almost certainly not open, and even if it does, the owners will wish they never opened it. You can take that to the bank.

Quoting JJJ (Reply 4):
Well a public servant derelicting his duty (and ensuring equal conditions for new business openings is one) is a crime.

The difference here is that he has the public on his side, so one can argue he's doing the will of the people.

While Boston in the past has had its share of prejudiced people, they've more or less died off.

Quoting mariner (Reply 6):
I thought it was a pretty stupid thing for the CEO to say

Indeed. If it was all about the chicken, there'd be no issue. Instead, that idiot made it all about gay marraige, not about the chicken. Sure, maybe he'll get some more business from the hardcore conservatives, but I bet this is a very bad move on his part.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5680 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
At the same time ANY politician has the right to voice their own opinion. If the mayor of Boston says his opinion is he will not allow CFA to open, why is that opinion an issue? Are elected officials not allowed to have opinions?

Sure, they can have opinions...but you said "his opinion is he will not allow CFA to open". There are actually two pieces to that:

His opinion is that the CFA should not open. Not allowing the CFA to open is an action taken based on that opinion.

Whatever an elected official's opinion might be, he/she needs to make sure that the actions taken are in fact within the legal authority of his/her office.

In this case I don't know what legal authority they have.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21861 posts, RR: 55
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5676 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
BTW, I ate at Chick-Fil-A once 12 years ago. It was awful.

   I don't get the hype. Chick-Fil-A opened a branch at my college, replacing the previous chicken place. It was not an improvement - lower quality, higher prices.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 19):
If Menino has the public on his side the store will almost certainly not open, and even if it does, the owners will wish they never opened it. You can take that to the bank.

If the public were against Chick-Fil-A, then they wouldn't be opening a store anyway, regardless of what Menino might think about it.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5651 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5667 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
Yes, he has the right to say whatever he wants and to run his company any way he wants within the law. That means: he can not order his franchises to deny employment based on sexual orientation and, in some states, must extend benefits to same sex partners. Both of which he is on the record as being against.

In which case he would be free to close up his place or not open one up. It would be up to the state to enforce the law, if such a law exists in that state.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 19):
The difference here is that he has the public on his side, so one can argue he's doing the will of the people.

As I recall, the 'will of the people' in NY was that a mosque not be built near ground zero, but Bloomberg and gang kept pushing it. The will of the people can be a dubious thing, not a bad thing, but dubious.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 19):
the hardcore conservatives

See, you had to go there. I know plenty of liberals who are against gay marriage and I know plenty of conservatives (some on this very forum) who are for it.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5621 times:

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
BTW, I ate at Chick-Fil-A once 12 years ago. It was awful.
Quoting Mir (Reply 21):
It was not an improvement - lower quality, higher prices.

Strange... I've never once met a person that didn't love their chicken!

It's been a moral dilemma for me lately. CFA is by far, without a doubt, my favorite fast food restaurant (the only one I'll eat at) but then they do this... ... ...  



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25690 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5615 times:
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Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
Yes, he has the right to say whatever he wants and to run his company any way he wants within the law. That means: he can not order his franchises to deny employment based on sexual orientation and, in some states, must extend benefits to same sex partners. Both of which he is on the record as being against.

He may have said he is against it - but as long as he doesn't actually do it, as long as he acts within the law, I assume he's in the clear.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineALTF4 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1214 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5604 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 11):
But I still maintain that a smart business leader won't want to rile feathers within it's (potential and existing) customer base.

They've been riling feathers for years and still have done remarkably well. People acted surprised at all of this, but come on, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this stuff out. Read Truet Cathy's book, or even just listen to the music in the stores --- Christian music. And we're "surprised" about this? Come on.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
Both of which he is on the record as being against.

Big deal. I'm against paying unemployment insurance or social security tax as an employee, as a business owner, and as a business owner with employees. Doesn't mean I'm going to break the law or am breaking the law.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):
The taste and presentation and price were all a perfect storm of awful.

I lol'd.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):
It's been a moral dilemma for me lately. CFA is by far, without a doubt, my favorite fast food restaurant (the only one I'll eat at) but then they do this... ... ...

As I said above, anybody should have known about this to begin with. Certainly you have seen their values and their mission, or given where you grew up, even drove past or visited their HQs on a school trip. They don't hide anything. Yet they've done well. Quite well. Keep eating there and enjoy the food - you've supported them this far, why stop now?  

.
.
.

Now I guess I better say I have gay friends, blah blah blah I'm not a homophobe. I just don't let politics and food mix. If its good and safe, I'll eat it. I'm sure I've eaten at plenty of LGBT (BTW what does the (Q) mean now?) establishments, and despite my PERSONAL sexual preferences, I haven't complained. Nor have I complained about eating at establishments that go against my politics. Big deal.



The above post is my opinion. Don't like it? Don't read it.
User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5651 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5602 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 23):
It's been a moral dilemma for me lately. CFA is by far, without a doubt, my favorite fast food restaurant (the only one I'll eat at) but then they do this... ... ...

It goes back to the thread on boycotts. Do you deprive yourself of, what is "by far, without a doubt, my favorite fast food restaurant..." based on this issue and thus, depriving CfA of any revenue you provide or do you enjoy a chicken sandwich and their, oh-so-yummy, waffle fries?



When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
25 Post contains images fr8mech : I'm not sure I could differeniate an LGBT establishment from a non-LGBT establishment. I mean, is there a secret rainbow somewhere in the establishme
26 Post contains images ALTF4 : Actually, it wasn't secret. One intersection in town is known as the LGBT area and one quite excellent establishment has a rainbow flag out front. I
27 SmittyOne : I honestly don't even know what their food is like these days, but about 20 years ago I remember having some kind of pressed chicken scrap sandwich t
28 ImperialEagle : Growing-up in Atlanta we drove down to the CFA all the time. They had a great breakfast----best waffles you ever ate. They had everything from ice-box
29 akiss20 : Questioning
30 Post contains images mt99 : And that is probably because most of the time "Gay" establishments welcome straight people. Say - if you were to kiss your girlfriend or wife - no on
31 Post contains images DocLightning : None at all. If CFA wants to open a store and they are willing to comply with local laws and regulations, then he can't stop them. He can raise a sti
32 Post contains links D L X : First, you could have picked a better thread title. Perhaps one that actually described the event you're complaining about. (See Rule 1(l): "Please us
33 Revelation : IMHO this event shows until recently the "locals" weren't aware that they'd be getting served morality if not prejudice along with their chicken....
34 Alias1024 : You aren't missing much. Greasy and somewhat rubbery chicken with sad looking shriveled pickle chips between two pieces of bun. The waffle fries are
35 Pyrex : Thank you, I aim to please. Oh wait, no I don't. Carry on... Whether they thought it was acceptable or not is irrelevant... you could be serving a Mc
36 Post contains links and images D L X : Right. Here's the ACTUAL letter from Menino: Care to rephrase your argument?
37 Post contains links Pyrex : Yes, I saw the letter. There is also the interview he gave the Boston Herald... Even civil rights lawyers, not usually the more tolerant bunch toward
38 JJJ : It doesn't matter. Keeping a fast food business from opening because of the owner's beliefs is against the law. The "public" has no word on that othe
39 us330 : Mir's right. Menino has not blocked any Chick-fil-a restaurant from starting up in Boston---so there is actually no cause of action. And the letter d
40 Revelation : I think CFA will find that he does have enough powers to make their life so miserable that they will regret not working things out with the Mayor. Uh
41 SmittyOne : LOL. Just to be clear, this was a rhetorical question! Not planning to sell Mussolini Milkshakes or anything...
42 Post contains images ALTF4 : Yep, I know. I don't have skin in the game on this one. Nor do I in most things, actually. I just like stirring the pot and pretending I do have a st
43 ALTF4 : So, I'm assuming that everybody crying foul on Chick-fil-a here is also not patronizing other companies that have similar views? I would only expect t
44 DocLightning : To management-level personnel, yes. Please quote the mayor's letter at the part where it says that. Because I've read it very carefully and it doesn'
45 fr8mech : He did not say it was in the letter. It is in the article: Alderman Joe Moreno said Wednesday that unless the company comes up with a written anti-di
46 Post contains images KaiGywer : Such as all aviation geeks' favorite burger joint? That being said. I love Chick-Fil-A, I love In-N-Out.
47 DocLightning : Again, this is state law and city law. There is no grounds for a suit. CFA is not banned from opening in Boston; they are quite welcome to open in Bo
48 Post contains images flymia : I would love to see any of these politicians try to ban Chick-Fil-A in any of their cities for social reasons. I would be amusing to watch. I am sure
49 Revelation : I searched bostonherald.com and got the following line: "Menino kicked up the coast-to-coast ruckus when he told the Herald last week “it will be v
50 Post contains images DocLightning : Well, as I showed above, you can do it with a clean conscience. You CANNOT, however, do it with clean arteries. They can't. But when CFA is informed
51 Post contains images flymia : Certainly right. Not something one wants in a daily or even weekly diet. Once In a while doesn't hurt , much. You are certainly right about local and
52 seb146 : Yes!! I don't understand, though, why a company is trying so hard to fight against state laws and against a contract between two consenting adults. T
53 ALTF4 : How about the certain oil company or association that was caught red-handed executing homosexuals? Certainly you don't drive gasoline powered vehicles
54 Post contains images KaiGywer : Breakfast, lunch and dinner during vacation
55 DocLightning : I don't have much of a choice. Without gasoline, I don't have a job. I don't eat. I die. But that is one of many reasons why I would like to move awa
56 Post contains images ALTF4 : So much for your argument, too. I still fail to see how one top exec's personal opinion on a matter has such an overbearing influence on corporate de
57 Revelation : Then I guess you also fail to see how one politician's opinion on a matter has such an overbearing influence on governmental decisions?
58 Post contains images WestJet747 : That "one top exec" holds the highest position in the company. His family also just happens to own it...but of course that wouldn't give him an overb
59 Pyrex : So, because they probably have some written anti-discrimination policy or some other bull-shit nobody ever reads but they need to have as a CYA when
60 DocLightning : Yes, it does. You either believe in what you believe and are willing to sacrifice money and business for it... ...or you don't. Yes, he's not importa
61 Post contains images ALTF4 : I should have explained a little more, knowing none of you would follow the thread down. His personal opinion has no overbearing decision on corporat
62 seb146 : In-N-Out does not have their board of directors telling everyone how to conduct themselves in the bedroom and in public. I know In-N-Out is a Christi
63 ALTF4 : Oh, so the issue is purely and only whether they tell people how to act? Nothing about the fear that those individuals may vote, with their personal
64 DocLightning : Yup. That's all I care about. You stay out of my business as long as I'm not bothering you. You don't try to keep me from raising a family, having a
65 Revelation : Yes. This is just more evidence of how amazingly wrong the "corporation are people" decision is.
66 Pyrex : Because they uphold the notion that is currently the law in the majority of U.S. states?
67 Revelation : Because they routinely represent a concentration of wealth and power that a "person" is unlikely to achieve.
68 seb146 : It also shows how contradictary the right is. They will support the notion of small government and keeping government out of our lives but they will
69 ALTF4 : So then why are we discussing this topic in this thread? AFAIK Cathy's comment was during an interview with a baptist organization. To me, that seems
70 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : It would be called "Chicks-are-gay" and every lesbian that kisses in the restaurant will receive a free sandwich. Needless to say, this restaurant wo
71 Post contains links mt99 : This is "ramming it down thru our throats": "An analysis of charitable donations by Chick-Fil-A shows the fast-food chain gave nearly $2 million to a
72 ALTF4 : So why the huff now? It's 2012. Why wasn't this thread in 2010? Also, shouldn't there be a thread for every other group who donated to antigay groups
73 D L X : This thread has troll thread written all over it. Shows how much you know. The ACLU also represents the Klan frequently. Not exactly a liberal group.
74 seb146 : Because a "liberal" politician from Boston didn't make much of a big deal about it in 2010. Well, actually, he is. He is telling a Christian magazine
75 Revelation : I think if you reread the beginning of the thread, you'll find that's not how things went down.
76 Post contains images DocLightning : They came running to Rush Limbaugh's defense when his privacy was violated during his little pill-popping scandal, too. I'm sure they had a fantastic
77 spink : Um, having met Truett Cathy, having gone to school with several of his grandchildren, having my sister's best friend being his granddaughter, and enj
78 Flighty : How embarrassing for the one person at the center of this, who is having personal confusion about this issue. I feel kind of bad for him. All opinion
79 Pyrex : Read again what he said to the newspapers - he did basically flat out say he would block them off from "his city" (as autochratic Dem mayor thugs are
80 ALTF4 : Are you a Christian? I don't seem to think you are. That rules that out. Are you a reader of said Christian magazine? I don't seem to think you are.
81 mt99 : Are you donating millions of dollars to a campaign to force children other than your own to eat broccoli? Is that so hard to understand? Some here cr
82 mt99 : How about a direct quote? "basically" doesn't quite cut it.
83 seb146 : Because you know me so well. Yes, I am a Christian. I just don't believe in the militant Christianity of the right wing political sphere. Contributin
84 ALTF4 : Never said I did know you well. We're on an internet forum. Be real. I said I didn't seem to "think" so, I didn't say you weren't. So, the only issue
85 mt99 : He is telling other people how to live by donating million of dollars to anti-gay groups. I am sorry - but as much as I like Revelation and Doc, you
86 Post contains images ALTF4 : Thanks, enlightened one. As I said, I'm just trying to make sense of this all logically. At any rate, I did respond to them. We're all talking over a
87 mt99 : Keep trying..it not that hard.. just keep at it and you will get it... we have confidence in you..
88 ALTF4 : Eh, I'll wait until they get their arguments in a row, too. At any rate, you stuck your nose in my reply to seb so I assumed you wanted some of that
89 Post contains images mt99 : When you "assume" you make an a**... you know the rest... Sure - why not!.. Get to it.. Because we gays were busy in 2010 Seriously - so when - accor
90 seb146 : He is CEO of a corporation and claims to be a Christian telling me how to be a Christian. Sorry, I already have a guideline for that. I don't need so
91 Post contains images ALTF4 : I'm not the one in a huff about this. You got that backwards. I'm not saying you can't discuss it until now ("when does it become valid" implies that
92 ALTF4 : Neither say that anywhere. I didn't say they did, either. I was simply asking why you'd have an issue with a company hiring Christians. Not exclusive
93 mt99 : You are in huff that people are in a huff.. which is even sillier.. You can thank Mr Cathy for putting it to the front burner for us. Yes - that may
94 Post contains images ALTF4 : Both. I don't have a problem with gay marriage in the least. In fact, I voted for it in my state. I find this thread hilarious, though. Mostly becaus
95 mt99 : Good trolling indeed! Congrats!
96 seb146 : Both federal and state law state that there shall be no discrimination based on religion, among other points. When I go into a McDonalds or Target, I
97 ALTF4 : They don't break the law by hiring Christians. They would break the law if they hired EXCLUSIVELY Christians, which you never qualified. Splitting ha
98 DeltaMD90 : I think the arguments is getting off track. 1: Do you agree with CFA donating to these certain groups? 2: Is that ok to do (freedom of expression)? 3:
99 ALTF4 : My understanding is that these groups' main purpose is to help troubled marriages. I don't think divorce is a good thing in general (don't get marrie
100 cargolex : And you would be wrong. They are not nearly so benign. The express purpose of these groups is to deny equal treatment under the law to gay persons, a
101 windy95 : Yes, it is their money and choice. Yes No No, it would nto stand up in court.
102 ALTF4 : No, I'm not defending that if I eat there. Just like I'm not defending violations of civil rights while living in states that don't allow gay marriag
103 seb146 : So, if Mohammed is not hired but Cathy is, that's fine? A lot worse has been done on a lot less to Democrats. Anthony Wiener?
104 DarkSnowyNight : So... They believed in living to a ripe old age then? Because that's what they died of. Not wild about In n Out's practices their either, but yes, th
105 seb146 : What is "family values" anyway? If it is a right you already have, why stop a small group from gaining said right? Besides, it is not a special right
106 Revelation : It's something conservatives like to talk about but not actually do. See Sarah/Todd/Bristol Palin for a prime example.
107 cargolex : Yeah, actually you are, unless Chick-Fil-A is giving you food for free, which I don't think they are. It's your money. You choose to give it to them
108 ALTF4 : At risk of running through previous circles on this thread, if you're going to use that logic, then use that logic. Check with the produce at the sto
109 cargolex : All of this is quite correct. Your point is well taken. However, some of us do choose not to support companies who go out of their way to advertise t
110 Post contains images ALTF4 : Very true. And yes, I'll fully admit there's more harm done by Chick-fil-a overall in that case. Let's look at oil companies, though. While a lot har
111 DarkSnowyNight : Exactly. CFA isn't passively supporting or opposing anything. As loudmouthed as they've been about the issue, it is effectively impossible to rationa
112 ALTF4 : Ok so if I were to kill somebody and hide my actions, and possibly apologize if I were found out, then I am better than if I were to kill somebody an
113 seb146 : Taking a life is completely different than corporations denying rights given to us by law.
114 ALTF4 : Indeed it is. But... 1) Chick-fil-a is not denying rights given to you by law. They are attempting to change laws, which is not illegal. Be careful.
115 DarkSnowyNight : If you don't mind, a more focused analogy is in order. CFA isn't "coming forward" about anything. They're openly bragging about it, and actively tryi
116 cargolex : The majority of "our" (the United States') oil comes from Canada. But as before, you're right, oil comes to us in spite of all kinds of abuses, only
117 ALTF4 : Good. We both know it is impossible to track everybody's postings on a specific issue, so I was speaking in generalities here. That said, I respect y
118 cargolex : Apples and Oranges, I think. The evils of oil companies are not targeted at a specific group of people and they're definitely not motivated by religi
119 DarkSnowyNight : Of course I cannot speak for Seb, but my take on that is that CFA actively promotes a hostile work environment by taking the stances it does and by m
120 seb146 : So, to deny a sector of society rights that are already granted to a majority of people? That is acceptable to you? It is acceptable to CFA. Look wha
121 ALTF4 : Absolutely; my original statement was not in relation to equal treatment or forcing anything, but rather a simple question of why they drive gas guzz
122 seb146 : Since you are so adimant about supporting CFA and them supporting denial of rights to a small part of the population, I would say that is acceptable
123 ALTF4 : Ok, well I now see you're simply ignoring or purposefully not reading what I've been saying, if you say I'm supporting the denial of rights. I'm not
124 seb146 : I understand where you are coming from. I get that way with a few people here. Let me explain my way of thinking (I know you are going to read, even
125 DocLightning : Because he's correct. If you think that you should have access to something I shouldn't, just because of some inherent characteristic of mine that ha
126 Post contains images ALTF4 : Jesus, Doc. I'd expect better from you. See? Obviously you haven't been reading the thread fully. Why the hell would I VOTE FOR SOMETHING if I'm agai
127 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Don't worry, I see where you're coming from. I think the thread got so convoluted a lot of people aren't sure who said what. I kinda tried to straigh
128 4holer : Copied from my post in the "new" thread, because it will probably be deleted as a duplicate thread... (Haven't read thru this one yet. Will do tomorro
129 DeltaMD90 : As much as I am against it, I'd say it's freedom of speech. Who's to say that we're right and he's wrong? There is a big enough anti-gay movement in
130 DocLightning : I tell it like it is. If you think that I don't deserve something that you do deserve, even though I haven't done anything wrong, just because of som
131 Post contains links Pyrex : Another example of the tolerance of the left... this douche-nozzle got fired, though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPLNgkP9nzc "Refuses"? Who the he
132 Post contains images DarkSnowyNight : Nope, you're not. If I'm being intellectually honest, the company's existence is a bad thing, public or private. But more on this below... Who are yo
133 4holer : Free speech is saying " I don't like you dating my daughter, young man!" That's expression of opinion. If "dad" takes it further by assaulting the yo
134 Pyrex : So, you are not a shareholder in the company but somehow you feel compelled to have them spend tens of millions of dollars in investment banking and
135 windy95 : LOL..CFA pays more than their fair share for the infrastructure that they use. They are taxpayers also and pay way more than you do. Bring in the bro
136 DeltaMD90 : Some see it as a vice and virtue case, just like prostitution and drugs and all. I don't agree with that, but I still value free speech. I'll use a m
137 Post contains links DarkSnowyNight : No, what is amusing is how you seem to think that this is a left vs right thing. It isn't. This is a bigots vs non-bigots thing, and if you have any
138 windy95 : Whose responsibility. Is that more of that community social responsibility garbage? Who in this country is a second class citizen? Hatred and fear...
139 DarkSnowyNight : We're straying off topic to go too far into detail, but yes, no man is an island, and whether we choose to acknowledge the obvious or not, the fact i
140 seb146 : No. Two male or two female consenting adults can not enter into a legally binding contract, also known as marriage. CFA is contributing tons of money
141 ALTF4 : I'm not that way. Answer the question I asked above: why would I vote for gay marriage if I am against it? I'm all ears, Doc. Or, just ignore this an
142 seb146 : As a right-winger who says they believe in small government and keeping government out of the lives of consenting adults, this is something you shoul
143 ALTF4 : And I am. And as I said, I voted for it. Some people can't seem to comprehend arguing a point even if you're for it, for discussion or for more fully
144 seb146 : That's what I don't get: This is all about rights granted FROM THE GOVERNMENT and it was voted down by people who say they are for limited government
145 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : To be fair, it's hard to get a party that aligns itself with 100% of your beliefs. If I knew a candidate could get the US out of the mess that it's i
146 DarkSnowyNight : I know it's off topic, but you know something we don't? As claims go, that's a pretty tall order...
147 4holer : Because in The United States of America, freedom and liberty should be the default. Removing those freedoms and liberties should only be done for com
148 ALTF4 : Which is why I voted for it. I'm for it. I voted for it. Seriously, am I speaking something other than English here? Everybody keeps lecturing me on
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