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Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?  
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5098 posts, RR: 12
Posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5726 times:

I refuse to call Harry Reid (D-NV), The Senate majority leader a liar.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) has claimed that "a person who had invested with Bain Capital" told him that Mitt Romney had not paid taxes for 10 years. He did this in an interview and again on The Senate floor.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...rs/2012/07/31/gJQADXkSNX_blog.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...y-reid-romney-taxes_n_1724027.html

Of course, the Romney Campaign, has denied the charge and has, all but, called Harry Reid (D-NV) a liar.

http://news.yahoo.com/mitt-romney-te...-185926937--abc-news-politics.html

I think that the senate majority leader, a Democrat, should prove that he is not a liar. I believe that Senator Ried (D-NV) should come forward with the name of this, so far unnamed, "person" and put to rest the notion that he, the senator, is a liar. I think the American people would feel better knowing that their senate majority leader, Harry Reid (D-NV) was not a liar. So, the senator needs to release the name of this person and the details of this conversation in order to put the American people at ease. He needs to prove that he is not a liar.

Now, credit to Paul Begala (Democratic Party advisor), he is trying his darndest to defend Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) on Anderson Cooper's CNN show. I mean, it is "the most logical, simplest explanation" for Mr. Romney not releasing his tax returns, isn't it?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...s_is_most_logical_explanation.html

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/20...-reid-allegations-re-romney-taxes/

Come on Senator Reid (D-NV) prove you're not a liar.


When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
402 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6545 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5725 times:
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Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
I refuse to call Harry Reid (D-NV), The Senate majority leader a liar.

He is a politician, ins't he?

Does Mittens need to prove that he is not a liar?

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
So, the senator needs to release the name of this person and the details of this conversation in order to put the American people at ease

At ease? how - IF true - then we Romney is proved a hack. That will give you "ease"?

If its not true- the we prove politicians lie. That will give you "ease"?

The only way i can see the American people ease .. is that Mittens show us his tax returns and proves to us he is just a poor Joe dealing with taxes likes everyone else, just like every average American,

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
I think the American people would feel better knowing that their senate majority leader,

I think the American people would feel better knowing that their Presidential Candidates,.

[Edited 2012-08-03 14:42:35]


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18683 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5697 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
I think that the senate majority leader, a Democrat, should prove that he is not a liar.

You know... there is a very simple solution to this problem. Mr. Romney can release those returns. Remember, this is not a criminal case at this point, this is politics. In the political world, a politician like Mr. Romney is guilty until proven innocent. He has provided two years' worth of tax returns, which is far less than would be released normally, as I understand.

Mr. Romney said that he didn't want to release them because he was afraid that the Obama campaign would pick them apart and use them against him. This raises the question: exactly what in those returns is the Obama campaign going to use against him?

Mr. Reid has done something very shrewd. Obnoxious, yes, but shrewd. Whether it turns out he is correct or not, there are a few take-home points:
*The stuff people can say about you or even make up about you might be a lot worse than the reality.
*We can expect a Romney administration to be very cagey and secretive to a degree not seen since Nixon.
*The longer this goes on, the worse it makes Romney look.

Mr. Reid has very little to lose in this game. Mr. Romney has an awful lot to lose in this game.

A little light side-note: A friend of mine (a Mormon) commented: "This is as close as you ever get to hot Mormon-on-Mormon action!"   


User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5098 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5682 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 1):
He is a politician, ins't he?


I have every confidence that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) is not a liar. But, I think he has to prove it to me and the American people.

I would like to know the name of this unnamed investor in Bain Capital that, inexplicable, has knowledge of Mitt Romney's tax situation. I mean, this is 'hair-on-fire' kind of stuff. I want to know all the juicy details.

Heck, this even goes deeper...I mean, where's the IRS in this? What have they been doing all these years that Mitt Romney, (Governor of Massachusetts, the chairman of the Salt Lake City Olympic Committee and the director(?) of Bain Capital) has not been filing or paying taxes?

Again, I don't believe the Democratic Senator from Nevada is a liar, but I believe he needs to prove that, if for any reason, to set Anderson Copper at ease and restore his faith in the senator.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5680 times:

Yeah I saw this, I think it just adds fuel to the Presidential race 2012 (fuel to the giant BS fire)

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
Mr. Romney said that he didn't want to release them because he was afraid that the Obama campaign would pick them apart and use them against him. This raises the question: exactly what in those returns is the Obama campaign going to use against him?

I'm sure the opposition campaign would, fairly or unfairly. Personally I'm sick of it all.


But I know if the tables were turned, the outrage would be going in the other direction, the defenders would all of the sudden claim it's ok and vice versa. Sickening



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15466 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5660 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) has claimed that "a person who had invested with Bain Capital" told him that Mitt Romney had not paid taxes for 10 years.

I imagine someone actually did tell him that. Technically, he isn't lying. Of course everyone should ask themselves why they should believe Reid and his secret friend.

Quoting fr8mech (Thread starter):
So, the senator needs to release the name of this person and the details of this conversation in order to put the American people at ease.

No he doesn't. Reid doesn't have to do anything, and for that matter neither does Romney. Until there's evidence to show otherwise believe what you want to believe.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineeinsteinboricua From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2010, 2672 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5655 times:

Reid dropped a rather heavy accusation, but since the Romney campaign has only denied it (not disproved it) and remained silent on the issue, I'm leaning towards believing that Reid IS telling the truth. Doesn't mean that I believe him straightforward, but I'm inclined to think he is telling the truth. That being said, asking Reid to bring forth his source won't do much especially if Romney is declining to do the same thing with his tax returns.


"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 18683 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5641 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
But I know if the tables were turned, the outrage would be going in the other direction, the defenders would all of the sudden claim it's ok and vice versa. Sickening

Well, the tables were turned with the whole Birther thing.

Here's the difference: no other President was forced to ask a state to pull out the original COLB. The state's printed one was fine. Also, not only did he provide his COLB as required, but there was other evidence to corroborate. The evidence that the Birthers demanded of Obama went way beyond standard.

In this case, it is standard for candidates to provide their historical tax returns for a number of years back. Romney's very limited disclosure sticks out like a sore thumb. And the thing is that he could end this all very quickly by releasing those returns. So why doesn't he?


User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2026 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5638 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
Heck, this even goes deeper...I mean, where's the IRS in this? What have they been doing all these years that Mitt Romney, (Governor of Massachusetts, the chairman of the Salt Lake City Olympic Committee and the director(?) of Bain Capital) has not been filing or paying taxes?

I don't think Reid is accusing Romney not filing taxes. I think he is accusing Romney of using so many offshore investments, tax shelters and loopholes that he effectively paid no taxes.


User currently offlineplaneguy727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1210 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5623 times:

A few thoughts:

1) This may be a political trick that backfires. The central idea being that if Romney does not release more then it appears as if the statement were true. Of course it already looks to be failing as the call is now on Reid to prove it true, more so than Romney to prove it false.

2) Why would and investor know what Romney paid in personal income taxes?

3) Romney has only released one year and promised to release 2011 when they are complete. He filed for an extension back in April.

As a strong independent I encourage each person to look at the motivations of each side before deciding who is telling the truth, who is lying, and the chance that both are technically not lying (all about the word choice).



I want to live in an old and converted 727...
User currently offlinevikkyvik From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 9395 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5611 times:
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Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
I have every confidence that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) is not a liar. But, I think he has to prove it to me and the American people.

That made me laugh.

Quoting mt99 (Reply 1):
He is a politician, ins't he?

  

End of thread.



"Two and a Half Men" was filmed in front of a live ostrich.
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3825 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5580 times:

I'll preempt the most ardent Romney supporters here...

The president hasn't released his school grades either. He's afraid to tell the American people the he A+ his anti-infidel class in Djakarta. Until the president does, Romney should not release his tax returns.



Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15466 posts, RR: 26
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5554 times:

Quoting planeguy727 (Reply 9):
Of course it already looks to be failing as the call is now on Reid to prove it true, more so than Romney to prove it false.

The only people doing that are people who will be voting for Romney anyway.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12878 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5552 times:

What bugs me, a loyal Democrat, as to Sen. Reid statement 'Romney paid no taxes for 10 years' is that he could be very wrong. I suspect his 'source' could be a former Bain partner, who could have some access to parts of Romney's tax records due to the nature of partnerships and perhaps got screwed by Bain so seeking revenge.

I think President Obama should tell Sen. Reid to shut up, retract his statement, apologize to Mr. Romney unless the 'leaker' is willing to come forward in public with his accusations. Yes, continue to call for releasing his tax returns, there are too many questions as to Romney's tax filings, Democrats are desperate to find something to use like the 'birthers' crap and Rev. Wright disclosures were used on Obama. For far too long, politics is too much about bashing someone rather than promoting something positive and policy on why you should vote for them.

Perhaps Romney could turn over copies of his tax returns for the last 10-12 years to a non-partisan group to review and report if he did pay taxes, how much in amount and percentage of his gross income, without disclosing information that is private to others.

[Edited 2012-08-03 18:42:37]

User currently onlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11123 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5546 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 1):
He is a politician, ins't he?

Said about 10 times in this thread alone. That was the first thing I thought when I saw the title of this thread.

What really bothers me is: Romney is a job crator, according to the right wing. He is one of the ones who can not ever be taxed because he makes millions and creates jobs with the millions he has.

Two questions:

1. Where are all the jobs he creates from his millions?

2. If he is so American and so confident in America and such a patriotic American, why not be a true patriot and keep all his millions in banks right here in America?



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5098 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5546 times:

You've missed the point.

Quoting einsteinboricua (Reply 6):
but since the Romney campaign has only denied it (not disproved it)


Folks, the whole point of this thread is summed up right here. The Democratic Party, its members and its surrogates just throw out "red meat" and then scream outrage when the presumptive candidate refuses to "disprove" their allegations.

Last month, some Obama campaign spokesperson suggested Mr. Romney was a felon. No proof, just supposition based on assumptions. But, it was expected that Mr. Romney now prove he's not a felon.

Earlier, Mr. Romney was a homophobic bully while in prep school. No matter that there was no proof that the alleged incident happened and no proof that the alleged victim was a homosexual. But, Mr. Romney, again, was expected to disprove a negative.

It is a desperate campaign that slings out baseless accusations and then feigns outrage when they are not answered.

Well, how about this: I have it from a source that was close to young a Barack Obama that said that the pot-smoking, cocaine sniffing, future president fed his habit by robbing convenience stores. Should President Obama have to defend against that?

Kudos to Anderson Cooper for calling out the Democrats on this.

And, for the record, Mr. Romney should have released his taxes. It is now too late. If he did it now: the only thing we would be talking about for the next 90 days would be those taxes and this deduction and that deduction and this account and this income stream and that decimal point.

We wouldn't be talking about an anemic economy.
We wouldn't be talking about 8.3% (oh, wait, 8.254%) unemployment.
We wouldn't be talking about the massive increase in the deficit and the debt.
We wouldn't be talking about the massive increase in people on some sort of government support.
We wouldn't be talking about the cost raising, job killing ACA.
We wouldn't be talking about the oppressive regulations that the Obama administration has brought down.
We wouldn't be talking about Mr. Obama's end-run around congressional legislation.
etc., etc., etc.

In short, at this point in the campaign, Mr. Romney's taxes are a distraction from the real issues.

And yes, I still think Senator Reid (D-NV) needs to prove that he is not a liar...he'll be hard pressed to do so.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
User currently offlineConfuscius From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 3825 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5540 times:

Another preempt...

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
Well, how about this: I have it from a source that was close to young a Barack Obama that said that the pot-smoking, cocaine sniffing, future president fed his habit by robbing convenience stores. Should President Obama have to defend against that?

You mean he isn't? ...or didn't?   

[Edited 2012-08-03 18:14:43]


Ain't I a stinker?
User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5530 times:

Go Harry Go!...(never interrupt your adversary while he is making an ass of himself/party)...Perhaps the rules of A/Net should officially be applied to campaigning here in the US..."Take the high road". Seems like no one appreciates the value in the climb. The alleged professionals that we elect to run the country, protect its interests and to serve the people have morphed into a lot of childish fools. I believe America has passed V-1 and will loose and engine on climb out ...its successful return is dubious. Self serving, greedy fools now run this ship and I find it deplorable. Hey Harry...howz' about you invite Nancy Pelosi on a date and go to "Chick Fil A" for a bite of reality. Bite your tongue though...you will be among many Christians.

User currently onlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5249 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5518 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
Well, how about this: I have it from a source that was close to young a Barack Obama that said that the pot-smoking, cocaine sniffing, future president fed his habit by robbing convenience stores. Should President Obama have to defend against that?

Well how about this: I have it that President Obama was not actually born in the USA! Yes I know he has already proved it in an authoritative way but I think he needs to defend against it. This accusation is as stupid at that other one.

For goodness sake, it is NOT ILLEGAL, he hasn't bee accused of doing anything wrong or illegal!!

Look Reid made an accusation, he is getting flack for it. Its not a big deal. Reducing your tax burden to zero is not illegal and any smart person will reduce their taxes as much as possible. Why is this "accusation" considered anything bad at all?

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinePSA53 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3049 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5507 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
ou know... there is a very simple solution to this problem. Mr. Romney can release those returns
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
r. Romney said that he didn't want to release them because he was afraid that the Obama campaign would pick them apart and use them against him.

Romney has done his homework and avoided it or will prove otherwise the charges at the proper time.Obama has always distracted the issues in past elections with this kind of tactic.Will see what happens in the debates.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
Earlier, Mr. Romney was a homophobic bully while in prep school. No matter that there was no proof that the alleged incident happened and no proof that the alleged victim was a homosexual. But, Mr. Romney, again, was expected to disprove a negative.

At that time? How long ago? And wasn't Hollywood proven the same.Start a thread about Hollywood's movies negative image toward gays.Otherwise,much ado about nothing.You wanna start talking Obama's past.Yikes!



Tuesday's Off! Do not disturb.
User currently offlineGuitrThree From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2031 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5499 times:

One would think that with such an allegation from the Senate Leader, the IRS would do an audit. Being that the IRS is lead by the Obama administration, I'm guessing the truth will be found in the "yes or no" answer to an audit.

No Audit? You can bet Romney has paid taxes. Simple as that.

Let's move on to something more important than Harry Reid.



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User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8044 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5475 times:

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 8):
I don't think Reid is accusing Romney not filing taxes. I think he is accusing Romney of using so many offshore investments, tax shelters and loopholes that he effectively paid no taxes.

And that is probably the reason why Romney does not want his previous tax records released.

I can see Romney legally avoiding payment of taxes. Wasn't there a 77+K deduction for the horse he has in the Olympics?

You can be sure that Romney has been through IRS audits. His reporting all the tax havens would have triggered more than one. And I have no doubts that his tax accountants and attorneys have ensured total compliance, and maximum utilization of loopholes.

Romney's problems with his taxes is that the public may well gag at the games played, no matter how legal they were. The deduction for the horse is enough to raise questions at the middle class level.

The other issue for Romney is that it was his father who established the standard of disclosure that Mill is running from. That is a huge burden on Mitt and one the Democrats will probably make a major issue the month before the election.

I think Mitt's real problem is that he wasn't willing to pay "politically acceptable" levels of taxes - no matter how much he wanted to be President.

That is going to be a problem.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 11):
He's afraid to tell the American people the he A+ his anti-infidel class in Djakarta.

Well, Obama was a child who was taken overseas by his mother, not a lot of choice there Just like our two kids didn't have a choice when we moved to Australia for 8 years. In fairness, my daughter was only 6 months old at the time and didn't have an ability to object.

Romney, on the other hand, lived overseas for 2 years, but this was his mission to convert French Catholics to Mormonism. Amazing that he was able to go to France when so many Mormons went to some really rough 3rd world countries. I've often wondered how many elegant French women were talked into wearing the Mormons Magic Underwear by Romney.


User currently onlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11123 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5456 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
No matter that there was no proof that the alleged incident happened and no proof that the alleged victim was a homosexual.

Actually, there was. Others that witnessed those attacks had come forward and said that, yes, Mitt actually did do those things to him.

Who cares if the man is gay. Unless you are Republican. Then, I suppose, he had it coming. Right?

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
We wouldn't be talking about an anemic economy.
We wouldn't be talking about 8.3% (oh, wait, 8.254%) unemployment.
We wouldn't be talking about the massive increase in the deficit and the debt.
We wouldn't be talking about the massive increase in people on some sort of government support.
We wouldn't be talking about the cost raising, job killing ACA.
We wouldn't be talking about the oppressive regulations that the Obama administration has brought down.
We wouldn't be talking about Mr. Obama's end-run around congressional legislation.

Taxes have been slashed on the "job creators" so it is actually their fault for not creating jobs.
Since there is no income by way of taxes, that increases the debt and deficit.
Since low/middle income people have the choice to either starve or go on government assistance, that triggers the increase in people on some sort of government support.
How many signing statements and "end-runs" has there been by Obama compared to Bush or Reagan or Clinton at this point in their presidencies?

None of that matters though. The main point is: get enough Americans to hate the Democrat in the White House so he is voted out. Don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain. Nothing to see there. Move along. Just keep hating Democrats. That's all that matters.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlineStarAC17 From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 3333 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5447 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
You know... there is a very simple solution to this problem. Mr. Romney can release those returns. Remember, this is not a criminal case at this point, this is politics. In the political world, a politician like Mr. Romney is guilty until proven innocent. He has provided two years' worth of tax returns, which is far less than would be released normally, as I understand.

There is probably no criminal activities involved in this at all, even if he has been audited in the past it has been dealt with. However I think that the Romney campaign believes that hiding these returns benefits them politically which asks "What are you hiding that is so bad??"

Provided this is something other presidential candidates have done what is he hiding, provided that McCain in 2008 knew the contents of these returns and thought Palin was a better choice for running mate among other candidates. Or that simply not releasing them means he is better off that way which means that all accusations no matter how absurd are fair game.

It's called swift-boating!!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 2):
Mr. Romney said that he didn't want to release them because he was afraid that the Obama campaign would pick them apart and use them against him. This raises the question: exactly what in those returns is the Obama campaign going to use against him?

That is the question and obviously his advisors believe that not releasing these returns are more beneficial to his campaign that releasing them.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
I have every confidence that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) is not a liar. But, I think he has to prove it to me and the American people.

Which is why his a bonehead for opening his mouth in this to begin with.

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
I imagine someone actually did tell him that. Technically, he isn't lying. Of course everyone should ask themselves why they should believe Reid and his secret friend.

The problem is that most Americans as I observe do not believe anything that a majority of their politicians say and the ones who do believe it are a loud minority on both sides of the aisle.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
What really bothers me is: Romney is a job crator, according to the right wing. He is one of the ones who can not ever be taxed because he makes millions and creates jobs with the millions he has.

Two questions:

1. Where are all the jobs he creates from his millions?

Fair question but remember we can't discuss Bain Capital either, even his primary opponents in the same party accused him of this. Again I suspect the uncertainty is better than the fact, and in the debates he will have to answer these questions. His awkward chuckle can only take him so far.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 14):
2. If he is so American and so confident in America and such a patriotic American, why not be a true patriot and keep all his millions in banks right here in America?

To be fair he made most of his money being an investor and he puts its money where it makes money, the sad part in the eyes of a lot of Americans with money is that to make more they have to invest in places that isn't in America.

This is why corporations manufacturer in places like China, and invest in R&D outside of the US because it is better for their bottom lines. What the US needs to do (and they are hardly alone in this) is give people like Mitt Romney an incentive more than tax cuts to keep there money in the US.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
Folks, the whole point of this thread is summed up right here. The Democratic Party, its members and its surrogates just throw out "red meat" and then scream outrage when the presumptive candidate refuses to "disprove" their allegations.

See 2004 are the "Swift-boat Veterans for Truth".

The democrats are simply using the GOP's (Karl Rove's) playbook to attack their opponent's strengths. In 2004 they attacked Kerry for serving in Vietnam and attempting to discredit that and the mistake of the Kerry campaign was to stay silent on the issue. The only reason the Romney campaign stays silent is because it benefits him in the long run.

Quoting GuitrThree (Reply 20):
One would think that with such an allegation from the Senate Leader, the IRS would do an audit. Being that the IRS is lead by the Obama administration, I'm guessing the truth will be found in the "yes or no" answer to an audit.

Provided Romney filed every year the IRS cannot release the returns without a warrant which they have no legal precedence to do so. Also even though the IRS is a government institution that enforces tax law and has no reason to release tax returns to a private citizen (which Romney is) and as of today he hasn't broken any laws. You would need a warrant to do so and any judge would sign one for the purposes of a presidential campaign shouldn't be a judge. Previous presidential canditates released theirs because they wanted to but that doesn't mean Romney has to, not if someone from McCain's 2008 campaign decides to release them because they have them (which I'm sure they do) then tough bananas Mitt.



Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21088 posts, RR: 56
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5441 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 3):
I have every confidence that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) is not a liar. But, I think he has to prove it to me and the American people.

   If he has to prove it, then you don't have every confidence.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 8):
I don't think Reid is accusing Romney not filing taxes. I think he is accusing Romney of using so many offshore investments, tax shelters and loopholes that he effectively paid no taxes.

   The people who are saying Romney paid no taxes are the same as the people who say Warren Buffet pays no taxes. He does pay taxes, he just uses loopholes in the law to pay a much lower percentage of his income in taxes than it would seem he ought to be paying. The suspicion is that Romney is doing the same thing. And it's pretty clear what the easiest way to dispel that suspicion is.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 15):
Folks, the whole point of this thread is summed up right here. The Democratic Party, its members and its surrogates just throw out "red meat" and then scream outrage when the presumptive candidate refuses to "disprove" their allegations.

   Now landing on this thread:


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Where were you when 90% of the right were screaming and moaning and gnashing teeth because Obama wouldn't release his long form, raised seal, hand-delivered, twice-baptized, authenticated-by-Jesus-himself birth certificate? Where was the "Donald Trump: A Liar?" thread?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
25 DocLightning : Right, which is why I said "This is not a criminal case at this point." It could theoretically become one, although I doubt it will. I can only hope
26 BMI727 : Costs too much.
27 seb146 : So, in other words, he does create jobs, just not here in America. Just like with the others who scream about not wanting to be taxed. No one but no
28 fr8mech : Just out of curiosity...did Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) go to the Senate floor and announce that he believed President Obama was no
29 Mir : Probably true. So what he's really saying is "believe in America, but only if the price is right." Not quite as inspiring a phrase, that one. -Mir
30 DocLightning : So a steady increase in jobs and fulfilling multiple campaign promises is utter failure? Look, I have big problems with Obama. He's grown government
31 vikkyvik : No, not all of us did, which is why I laughed at your initial statement. Speaking of Jesus, I have every confidence that he was who he said he was, a
32 StarAC17 : In order you to understand your rival you have to know how they think and for the investor class which Romney is a part of they know that the greates
33 fr8mech : Like I said, I agree that he should have released them much earlier...now, they will just detract from the true conversation we should be having. 8.3
34 Mir : I doubt FoxNews had an agenda of making Conservatives look like idiots. -Mir
35 BMI727 : Basically. It's actually what everybody should be saying.
36 mt99 : His name is Donald Trump. Should I put an R next his name? Sarah Palin also brings it up quite often. And you are willing to trust the solution to al
37 mt99 : All politicians are liers.. its their #1 ability[Edited 2012-08-03 23:17:58]
38 tugger : Whether then or now, if they should have been released, they should still be released. It won't detract from any "true"(?) conversation because if in
39 fr8mech : In the final analysis, Fox News in the business of making money. They reported it just like the others. Put an 'R' next to his name all you want. He
40 NorthstarBoy : I think there's one good reason why Romney doesn't release his early tax returns: From 1999-2002 he was listed as being president/chairman/CEO and gen
41 seb146 : Which is easily corrected with all the tax breaks and corporate welfare given to people like Romney because they are "job creators" who are being tax
42 LMP737 : Tax returns that he filed after 2008 probably having already made up his mind to give it another go in 2012. In other words he was going to make sure
43 LMP737 : We are not in the current situation we are because there were to many rules. We are our current situation because it was free for all when it came to
44 seb146 : And, George Romney was born in Mexico to a polygamist family.
45 Post contains images LMP737 : That also is interesting.
46 Ken777 : You are probably right, which leads people to speculate. What about that Swill account? What about the companies and trusts in the Caribbean? How muc
47 fr8mech : So, let me get this straight...... It's ok for the senate majority leader to go to the media and to floor of The Senate and make baseless claims, with
48 mt99 : Yes you would have Be that as it may - I'll even agree with you - if you answer the following questions directly: 1) Do you think that Romney should
49 Ken777 : When was the last tie the House delivered a budget that the Senate could have passed without gagging? After the Swift Boat and Birthers issues it is
50 Mir : Sorry, that's not how it really works. FoxNews and the GOP go hand in hand. If the GOP doesn't want the birther movement to be given legs, then FoxNe
51 DocLightning : We can go back and forth. Harry Reid can reveal his source. Now, people will accuse his source of lying. In fact, there is only one man in the entire
52 Post contains links DocLightning : Well, it gets more --and less-- interesting. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1735729.html?utm_hp_ref=politics Basically, a second anonymous s
53 DeltaMD90 : I guess the reason I'm so negative in this thread is that I don't care that Romney isn't releasing his records, I don't care if he went through a bunc
54 DocLightning : And the point you're missing is that this is all about how well Mr. Romney will run the country. Do you think that Mr. Romney won't continue to be sh
55 DeltaMD90 : Have the IRS look at it... I don't need/care to see his records. I don't see it the way many are seeing it... I'm 95% sure he's just playing politics
56 DocLightning : The deficit isn't one of the top ten problems facing this country? I'd disagree.
57 StarAC17 : I'm 99.99999% sure that the RNC and Romney's handlers have seen the returns and won't release them unless someone goes rogue. When you have a candida
58 seb146 : Which was 100% completely and totally written by corporations. That is unacceptable to the American people and the Democrats. How is running trillion
59 Mir : Well, so much for: -Mir
60 DocLightning : If the RNC had seen them, then why are GOP higher-ups demanding that he release them? I don't think they have. This is not a fringe issue. This is ac
61 tugger : And this is absolutely true. And has nothing to do with Ried's "challenge" or anything like that. Mr. Romney was already not releasing his returns af
62 seb146 : All these same questions are still being thrown at Obama every single day. But it's okay if Romney has shady practices. He is right-wing...
63 Ken777 : Right now Romney is sort of coasting. There was the farce of his building up his "international experience", but basically he was going along without
64 DeltaMD90 : Why is every post a conspiracy by the "right wing?" I see the right-wing being torn to shreds just as much if not more, unless you're only listening
65 BMI727 : Not any more than Obama's birth certificate.
66 LTBEWR : As I noted before, Sen. Reid should either have his source(s) come out by name and give their proof or he should apologize and retract his statement a
67 Ken777 : At one important level the tax returns are themselves a demonstration of Romney's behavior. It may be legal, but it also might totally unacceptable t
68 bestwestern : So much for consistency... and. And not by the Donald, Fox News, Sarah Palin, idiots in Texas... and other media whores.
69 DocLightning : Did Obama start a war on false pretenses and give massive contracts to companies with which he had close ties? Look, he's done shady stuff, but not a
70 BMI727 : The only people who care are probably going to vote for Obama anyway. Of all the things to swing a vote from one candidate to another, tax returns sh
71 seb146 : The way a candidate acts in his/her personal life is how he/she will act once elected. That is what we were told in 2010, at least. I was trying to g
72 BMI727 : A guy who made a lot of money and seems to have done a pretty good job keeping people's hands out of it? Sounds like what a country with a massive de
73 StarAC17 : I would argue that only applies to the democratic base, and the GOP one doesn't care about it. In this case, there are many in the middle that will b
74 mt99 : How do you know this?? Have you seen his tax returns?
75 BMI727 : Would he be hiding that his tax attorneys suck and he pays way more than he really has to?
76 mt99 : It IS possible...but we cant tell, can we?
77 BMI727 : No we can't. And I don't care in the least and frankly nobody else should either.
78 mt99 : Oh im sorry - are you the one who decides who should care for stuff?
79 BMI727 : Yes, I am. And I find all of this pretty much irrelevant. It's nothing short of moronic that some people are content to reduce a presidential electio
80 Mir : Being good at getting money out of running a business does not necessarily equate to being good at running a government, unless you're saying that th
81 DocLightning : Sadly, Mr. Romney is giving us little else to talk about. He's against a lot of stuff Obama is doing, but not for any alternatives.
82 Dreadnought : Which is why all of this is going on. Romney does not have any salacious sealed records to reveal (one of Obama/Axelrod's classic tactics), so they a
83 mt99 : Its about Romney's credentials to his claims on being good business man - and that he can save the country's finances. He needs to back this up. Then
84 Post contains links mt99 : This doenst matter to you beacse its Romney - in other words the person running against Obama Hold the phones.. Here is what he wants to do: "Mitt Ro
85 BMI727 : If that's the issue, juggling or sword swallowing would probably help you more than tax returns. Or you could just do what plenty of other people do
86 seb146 : But, if he had been paying his fair share in taxes AND using his huge profits to employ people in the United States (the right keeps screaming we can
87 bjorn14 : Which ones are those? Maybe, this one "We live in the greatest country in the history of the world, help me change it"?
88 mt99 : See you have the wrong concern. His tax returns will help us decide what he is. Like the people screaming for Obama birth certificate? Believe that a
89 mt99 : Good question. What are Willard's "promises" and what are his plans to achieve them?
90 BMI727 : So now the recession is retroactively Romney's fault? After all these years of blaming Bush? By the way, if he were busy employing Americans, there p
91 Dreadnought : Wait a sec. There is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER that his taxes have anything wrong in them. The Obama campaign is simply fishing. Meanwhile, Obama has sp
92 BMI727 : Last time I checked nobody ever cast a vote for Michelle Obama. Because high blood pressure could render him unfit to serve?
93 mt99 : Is Obama running on the fact that he was "baptized? - why else would you need his baptismal record for? Is Romney not running on his "business experi
94 BMI727 : Yes I am.
95 Dreadnought : Using the same logic as you guys are using, "He's hiding them so there MUST be something embarrassing or illegal that would be exposed by releasing t
96 mt99 : The only way your logic works is if the following 2 statements are true: 1- Obama has said that he would be a good President beacuse he has been bapt
97 DeltaMD90 : How does being a good businessman equate to his taxes though? If he uses loopholes or pays a way lower tax percentage, will that make him an ineffecti
98 Post contains images windy95 : What does how much money he made or how much he paid in taxes have to do with his job record? Nothing, but thanks for playing. He is not running on h
99 Post contains images Dreadnought : John Kerry and his wife were more wealthy than Romney, and being rich was not a problem for liberals back then (of course the Kerry's made their mone
100 mt99 : You know who else was rich too? Bernie Madoff
101 Post contains images ATTart : Two can play this game.
102 Ken777 : And those Independents that are now gaining interest in what Romney NEEDS to hide. Should be and might be if Romney had lived up to his own father's
103 seb146 : Why does the right not get that Democrats/liberals/progressives are not against the rich? Why do they perpetuate this myth? The fact is: being rich i
104 Post contains links usflyer msp : Slightly off-topic, but that is COMPLETELY FALSE!!!!!! That is something some right-winger literally just pulled out of thin-air and tried to pass of
105 Ken777 : The hard right has to hang onto something to make liberals and moderates look bad. There are a lot of issues with maintaining a professional license.
106 LTBEWR : As to President Obama's educational credentials, they would have been subject to review, including certified copies his records, for the 'character an
107 BMI727 : Not the smart ones. Again, a distraction but not an issue. Of course smart people don't have much of a chance when the circus comes to town, which is
108 Ken777 : Actually you can put the smart ones at the top of the list. Only for you and others hoping that they can close their eyes and it will go away. Not re
109 Post contains links mt99 : He is running for President of the United States - Its business of every American voter. It IS an issue! He is running on him business acumen.. Is he
110 seb146 : By creating jobs they tell everyone they are going to create with the corporate welfare they are being given. Is that too much to ask? For the rich t
111 BMI727 : Okay then. If he were to release them, what would it have to show for you to vote for him? Only for people looking to smear him. That's awfully optim
112 mt99 : That he paid the taxes he was legally supposed to. What would they have to show for you NOT to vote for him? What % of the US population would you sa
113 BMI727 : So none of his positions on issues or plans mean anything? You're just interested in making sure he paid enough taxes. And not just the taxes he was
114 Post contains images ATTart :
115 mt99 : Wrong. I specifically said the taxes he was supposed to - not more; not less See: What plans? He as released "plans?" Where? Last i heard he wanted t
116 DocLightning : What positions? Um... he's against gay marriage. He won't raise taxes. His tax plan is absurdly unrealistic. He has no proposals for dealing with hea
117 BMI727 : Then maybe you and everyone else should be more concerned with that than tax returns. I find it hard to believe that he is doing anything that others
118 mt99 : And here is where i realize that i have been wasting my time. Maybe you are right and it is around 80%. Takes one to know one!
119 seb146 : And, that's fine. They can make all the money they want. Don't tell me corporations were in the hole all those decades until the Reagan tax breaks an
120 bjorn14 : Just want to verify his claim to being a Christian. Yeah, like I'm going to trust any organization that gave millions to an educational foundation th
121 mt99 : Has he said that he will be a better President because he has been baptized? BUT - you trust Mittens, no questions asked. Interesting.
122 casinterest : [quote=Dreadnought,reply=91][ quote] This post of GOP tripe which can be debunked with a simple google search is exactly why Ried is doing what he is
123 bjorn14 : Never said that or even implied that. I was shedding light on the connection between FactCheck.org and Obama so people can make their own judgements
124 Post contains links fr8mech : I've been a way for a couple of days and am impressed that the thread is over 120 replies. I'm sure that it has drifted away from Senate Majority Lead
125 mt99 : So., he has never said it? You are just extrapolating. Sound like you are also interested in seeing Romney's Tax returns then. If you don't trust him
126 fr8mech : I had faith in the office of the Senate Majority Leader, but Leader Reid (D-NV), himself? Sadly...no. You got me. There, I've come clean. Wow, that f
127 Post contains links and images mt99 : I knew it! Liar. I doubt he reads this forum. You can reach him here: http://www.reid.senate.gov/contact/offices.cfm/ - Do you want Mitten's address
128 seb146 : He probably also did it to shut the right-wing extremists up who keep insisting he is a Kenyan born Muslim socialist/communitst/marxist etc., etc., e
129 Post contains links seb146 : It was Grover Norquist at CPAC 2012. He and the other right-wingers who get bills introduced into the House just want a rubber stamp president. They
130 bjorn14 : So then Obama is just lying?
131 Post contains images Dreadnought : You are distorting his speech. Norquist said that he wants a president who will sign off on the Ryan Budget. Not a rubber stamp president in general,
132 Post contains images Ken777 : Believing Romney will deliver anything specific without massive pressure is a lost cause. Romney is probably the best politician these days when it c
133 BMI727 : Obviously because you want to see documents even though you don't believe there's anything noteworthy in them nor do you particular care what is or i
134 zckls04 : This issue is definitely not of grand importance when compared to the more worrying issue of him not having any policies or ideas. The problem is tha
135 Ken777 : I believe that there are a lot of loopholes available to Romney that are out of reach for "normal" Americans. He gets a $77+ deduction for the horse,
136 casinterest : I really want to know how he got 20-100+ million into his IRA. That is a bit outlandish considering in theory he invested a max of 450 K in it.
137 Ken777 : Maybe from "growth" of his Swiss and Caribbean "investments". Tax free growth? Another reason to hide what is in those returns.
138 seb146 : Actucally, he has considered EVERY budget. He just does not sign the ones that leaves poor and middle class to die. The one that balloons the deficit
139 bjorn14 : How is that when nearly half of Americans don't pay any Federal Income Taxes. Why? They don't make enough! He was baptized as a 30something adult.
140 Ken777 : Start with the Socialist GOP $1,000 Per Child Handout. Socialist, but a pretty good way to buy that election in ''96. Unfortunately it keeps on costi
141 Post contains links and images Dreadnought : That's funny, every other president has had similar challenges and signed budgets every year, and nobody died. Could it be that you are overdramatizi
142 Post contains images ATTart :
143 casinterest : Growth like that doesn't just happen. Stocks or other gifts must have grown a lot. But they pay sales tax and possibly state income taxes . Hitting t
144 seb146 : That's assuming no one pays taxes, it looks like. Let's look at a real budget that has NOTHING to do with %of GDP because that just skews the numbers
145 Dreadnought : You say that as if government-funded federal jobs and projects are automatically a good thing. Ooops, someone has not been reading. Compare the Obama
146 Ken777 : Are you sure of that? You really believe that the poor in this country get the same care as even middle income folks? The key to the quality and cost
147 DocLightning : Never worked in healthcare, did you. Yeah, people die because they can't get basic services. I've seen it.
148 seb146 : Kinda like "Don't tax the wealthy because they are the job creators!" Well, then, where are the jobs? The wealthy have been on corporate welfare for
149 Post contains links BMI727 : They didn't get a deduction for the horse, they got a deduction for losses on their investment in the company that owns the horse. And they only get
150 Ken777 : Twelve simple words that, in a reasonable world, would cause a reasonable man to change his position. Unfortunately it probably won't. And his wife t
151 Post contains images BMI727 : Where does it say she's not allowed to ride the horse? How is that even the least bit relevant? It's absolutely scandalous that someone would ride a
152 fr8mech : So? My father is a racist, homophobe Democrat. Does that mean I have to do what he does? If your Spot & Fluffy were a business, then expenses rel
153 seb146 : In Romney's case, he makes it sound like this horse is both a business expense (which can be deducted) and a personal pet (which can NOT be deducted)
154 BMI727 : That's exactly what it is. Did you bother to read anything about the issue? (Rhetorical question, the answer is pretty obvious) The horse expenses qu
155 Ken777 : Nowhere. Sorry, but I have no desire to return to the GOP. Not at all. You can be an improvement on that. Unfortunately Mitt isn't improving on his F
156 BMI727 : So why bring it up? Disparaging people who deserve it? You bet I enjoy it. Darn right I hate lying. People dwelling on this horse business are no bet
157 seb146 : So, you make me feel stupid because you think you are smarter than me with an internet connection, 10 minutes and the ability to read. Touche, sir. T
158 BMI727 : That's just it: this isn't hard. A little effort goes a long way. Horses aren't exactly a luxury item. Not show or racehorses that are going to gener
159 Mir : When you start talking about how dedicated you are to the country. If you want to be a free agent and send your money to wherever you think you can k
160 BMI727 : Is this like the PBS membership drive now? You have the merely Legal level and then the Dedicated to My Country level. So how much does one have to p
161 bjorn14 : How could he? the DemocRat-controlled Senate hasn't passed one in 3 years! And really if anyone is to blame for Romney not paying taxes it's Reid and
162 windy95 : Oh the irony...
163 Post contains links bjorn14 : It gets better as Reid won't release his own tax returns. I guess the people of Nevada don't care. He lives at the Ritz-Carlton in DC and went from m
164 mt99 : Is Reid running for President?
165 casinterest : But yet you support the increase in Defense? I have been reading, and more than the Faux news/ Conservative rag rumors you posted above in post 91 wi
166 helvknight : Nope. This is just today's talking point. Romney can lay this to rest in 10 seconds just by releasing the returns otherwise you can't help but think
167 seb146 : So I am the only one who sees the irony in the entire right wing screaming about "don't tax the job creators" but then not having any jobs here? Real
168 BMI727 : Nobody but millionaires can attend sporting events, play golf, or go on vacation? We both know that's not true. The simple truth is this: this isn't
169 seb146 : Except millionares make enough to both hire accountants to figure out how to pay the least in taxes AND to actually pay lower taxes (even make money
170 BMI727 : So your real problem is that people with more money than you can afford things that you can't? There is no secret set of millionaire laws. Either Ame
171 fr8mech : So, the problem is a complicated tax code that tends to punish those that can't access all the 'benefits' it provides? Ok, simple answer. Move to a f
172 seb146 : That's right. Millions of us are working so hard just to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table that we can't afford to invest in ourselves
173 Post contains images BMI727 : Like all the millionaires that march into H&R Block each spring. Or God forbid anyone sit down and do a little bit of math to figure out that the
174 tugger : Try to get any one with significant wealth to actually support THAT. Not gonna happen, at least not one that is actually flat across all categories.
175 Post contains images bjorn14 : Loopholes in the tax code are written so narrowly that it can only apply to the person asking for the break. . But Congress would never do it because
176 fr8mech : You do realize that I'm being facetious, correct? I'm pretty sure he can't produce an 'investor' who has any kind of knowledge of Mr. Romney's tax si
177 mt99 : Agreed. Now - is that what Mittens going to propose?
178 seb146 : I am trying to point out the absurdity of the statements coming from the right. Go back and read them. Every year, everyone who works pays taxes. Nea
179 LMP737 : Maybe Harry Ried is the first democrat to figure out that to beat the GOP they have to play their game. The problem the democrats seem to have is tha
180 windy95 : Yes the hypocrisy of Dingy harry is neverending. Was Obama running for President when he refused to reveal a whole slew of items into his past? The o
181 mt99 : I think so. But i could be wrong. Please provide a list of the "slew" of items that Obama has been hiding. Please include the date on which Obama fir
182 casinterest : Game... Set...Match. Perfect example of my statement And the endless mindless already debunked rhetoric goes on. Does anyone actually have an individ
183 tugger : That's good to hear, I wasn't actually sure but with the tone of most of the posts I was thinking you were leaning that way. About the only I am wond
184 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : I see what point you're trying to demonstrate but you yourself are taking the contrary position I think most of your posts rival the whiny-ness of an
185 mt99 : No- you guys have convinced me fully. Reid should come out and state his "source" Since you have always held this (and undoubtedly correct) position.
186 BMI727 : No, not a flat tax on what's controlled. A VAT on what's spent. Of course the US has no business getting their hands on money earned and invested ent
187 DeltaMD90 : I think it's BS from both sides so I'm not "joining" anyone. I think the documents he wants is completely unnecessary and I find this situation Romne
188 Dreadnought : I'd agree, and on top of that I would require that all taxes (local, state, county, federal) would simply be an add-on percentage based on VAT, with
189 mt99 : Now the Quebecois are taxing in the US?!! The nerve!! Is Romney proposing this?
190 tugger : As long as it includes services as well as goods I could support it. Services must be included at the same rate. Tugg
191 Dreadnought : There is a part of the GOP that is proposing it, but don't have a majority yet. Let me turn the question around - Are any Democrats proposing it? Are
192 BMI727 : Of course it would include services, why wouldn't it? They're already subject to sales taxes.
193 tugger : Not all services. Many are not taxed: Doctor visits, tax preparation, etc. In general labor is not taxed. Tugg
194 BMI727 : Labor should be generally taxed at the same rates as goods, save for things like medical care or education. I don't expect a VAT to be paid on privat
195 tugger : But the problem is, then you may be seen as favoring one group over another as it is wealthier people that utilize things like private education and
196 seb146 : Then, get a job and start paying! I have a job and I pay taxes. Period. All those right-wingers who say I don't pay taxes are lying. Every paycheck I
197 Dreadnought : You live in a vaccuum or something? Tax rates are not the only thing taken into account. There are also the complexity of those taxes, the regulatory
198 zckls04 : Flat taxes are a dreadful idea, particularly sales taxes which are totally regressive. It's right that those who earn more should pay more, and I don'
199 BMI727 : Waiving the tax on medical care is just the government subsidizing healthcare, which plenty of people seem to want anyway. More like get a job and th
200 zckls04 : Your opinion. I think it's necessary though in many cases, particularly environmental ones. You don't live in a vacuum- the choices you make affect o
201 DeltaMD90 : Some people value personal freedom even if it costs society a little extra. I don't even want to go down the road of banning behaviors/activities tha
202 BMI727 : There's already environmental laws. Either you comply or you don't, and the cost of compliance is rolled into the product.
203 Post contains images zckls04 : I agree for the most part. But you're still free to do the activity- it just costs a bit more. You can argue that those who suffer as a result of you
204 Post contains links LTBEWR : More past questionable actions of Mitt Romney's past are coming out. He was on the board and in particular the audit committee of Marriott, the large
205 DeltaMD90 : Also, breaking, his wife's cousin was a physical therapist for the brother of a Nazi. The horror!
206 seb146 : It is the far right that keep screaming about "don't tax the wealthy because they are job creators." Yet, they give no clue on how to create any jobs
207 fr8mech : When was the last time someone making $40K or $50K gave you or anyone else a job? In my opinion, there a four things required to make someone want to
208 bjorn14 : And then there is Obama's illegal alien relatives one of whom was convicted of drunk driving but no MSM outlet will report that.
209 bjorn14 : The IRS has Romney's tax returns Has had them all of his tax-paying life Would have audited him if anything was irregular Would have prosecuted him if
210 mt99 : All of them running for President? So what the harm in revealing them? If there is nothing wrong (as i suspect), why not show them? In the words of t
211 Post contains links seb146 : And number 2 since the banks were not regulated up to the crash and, now, they decide it is not safe to loan money. Every day. Those are called "smal
212 Smittyone : If Mr. Romney genuinely believes the business about angels telling Joseph Smith to dig up golden plates, putting his face in a hatful of seer stone t
213 seb146 : And therein lies the problem: As governor, he did exactly what Obama is doing and now Romney denies ever doing it. Then, his business "success" is on
214 Dreadnought : Why don't you post your tax returns on this forum? No harm, right? This is a fishing expedition. Obama has a long history of winning elections by fin
215 mt99 : Am I running for President? If i was, I would have them hand delivered to your house by singing telegram girl! Again, if there is no "smoking gun" in
216 Smittyone : Because it's equally irrelevant. Woe betide the day that somebody holds me accountable for my crazy relatives.
217 Post contains links VC10BOAC : This is utter nonsense as determined by Snopes: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/lawlicenses.asp I wont bother with the rest of your post because
218 casinterest : I have already called him out on this , and he has yet to refute it. Just another fox news robot that doesn't know the difference betwwen the trurth
219 bjorn14 : People who are in the 1% have something like 20x the chance to be audited than the average Joe Six Pack. No it's not. There is a good possibly that O
220 VC10BOAC : OK, I get it, you have the "birther" mentality. No reasoning with you, dude!
221 bjorn14 : Just giving back what all you liberals give. Anytime someone quotes a right leaning source you immediately try to discredit it as being biased. Anyti
222 Smittyone : Fair enough, the running of legal interference is different from having messed up relatives. Which most of us probably have!
223 zckls04 : What's the evidence it is left-leaning?
224 DeltaMD90 : Let's try to focus on the issues at hand here. Who cares if Michelle Obama had her law license revoked? Why does that matter? Don't even have to "pro
225 Dreadnought : I'm not going to refute it - I have no first hand info. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. But how about all the other items on the list, like his school record
226 mt99 : Nope i would not. Question is - do you think Obama would let it sit? or do you think that he would go to all means to disprove it? Do you think he wo
227 VC10BOAC : Why are his school records an issue? He has never run based on that. The fact is that he graduated from Harvard Law School, and was elected president
228 VC10BOAC : No, dude. I do my research regardless of what the source is, left or right. I don't think or believe what others say I should. There is a lot of stuf
229 fr8mech : Though, I do believe President Obama was born in the United States, I think he applied, registered and attended Occidental, Columbia and Harvard as a
230 casinterest : The other items on the list are worthless if the sources are the same as the ones with the wild claims. Just because conservatives are too lazy to as
231 LTBEWR : Two things that may have caused a possible preference for Occidental and Columbia was that for several years, while a child in Indonesia, he did go t
232 mt99 : No. Its worse actually. So easy.. Why would he have registered as a foreign student if he was born in Hawaii? The birth certificate is out there. - H
233 fr8mech : Let's be clear...I could give a rat's anal cavity about President Obama's school records, dental records or his Orphan Annie Secret Society membershi
234 Post contains links mt99 : OK let 's play! - You are making this too easy Ohh im intrigued! What "advantage" does a foreign student have; which specifically did he take advanta
235 seb146 : So, nothing to see here? Really? He was audited more than once. What was the outcome of those audits? You don't know but we should just believe you?
236 fr8mech : Like I said, I could care less about what Mr. Obama has released or hasn't. I care about his record. I tossed out my allegation to make a point. The
237 mt99 : Yes. Dreadnought tried the same, with similar disappointing results. BTW, your point is not yet made. You infact - you help prove my point: a lot of
238 seb146 : That's fine for you. What about every other "Republican" out there? It matters to them when Obama allegedly 'stonewalls' because what is released doe
239 tugger : Actually you are wrong. You do not realize that one does not mean the other. Yep, we have a debt, one that needs to be addressed. But a combination o
240 BMI727 : Taxing it wouldn't be a huge problem, but I'm not sure the net effect would be help. The VAT on healthcare would make it more expensive, so the gover
241 fr8mech : I completely understand how and why Jobs are created. Did you notice my first condition: "a business need for that job"? That business need comes, at
242 bjorn14 : More likely that Michelle beats Barack because she's not getting paid for being FLOTUS Maybe not Obama per se but his supporters beat the drum that h
243 mt99 : Wait - so a school that KNOWS that he is American because he has student loans, would offer him scholarship that is intended for foreigners? That mak
244 seb146 : But it does not start with multi-billion dollar coporations. Apple, Microsoft, Starbucks, IKEA, United... None of them started off as multi-national
245 DocLightning : I can't speak for Ivies, but AFAIK, Stanford offers no financial aid for foreign students. Period.
246 fr8mech : I guess you continue to miss the point. It doesn't matter what the allegation is, what matters is that time, energy, resources, bandwidth, column inc
247 mt99 : No, I don't. You do are the one missing the point. Once more: he is running on his "Business Record" - is he not? Tax records? yes... Good. But you f
248 fr8mech : Of course I do. And, it continues to be a political calculation. Same as any of the records that President Obama refuses to release, even those gener
249 seb146 : And, according to SEC filings, Romney was head of Bain Capital after 1999. He says he was gone in 1999. Who is lying? I guess SEC is. It is Mitt Romn
250 Dreadnought : It's not his. If the IRS and Congress sets out the rates and rules, unless you can prove that Romney did something illegal (damned unlikely), there i
251 LTBEWR : I wonder if there will be calls for the apparent VP pick of Romney of Rep. Paul Ryan (Wis.) to put out 12 years of his tax returns and if he will do s
252 Dreadnought : No other candidate has been held to such a standard as Romney - and the brainless swallow it hook line and sinker. As long as I am assured that the I
253 seb146 : Because no other candidate refuses so hard to release tax records. Every other candidate who has been asked has released tax records no problem. Just
254 Dreadnought : Evidence of this please? What other candidates have been asked for more than a year or two? I have yet to hear evidence that you don't beat your kids
255 Ken777 : There you go, why am I not surprised. Especially the reality that those who don't agree with you are " people who deserve it" That $77,000+ deduction
256 Post contains images tugger : Good. But I don't see how you can honestly state that it was just their polices that stagnated the economy and not also the policies of the "oppositi
257 seb146 : Other candidates release 10 years or more no questions asked. Just because. It has never been an issue because no one else has stonewalled like this.
258 mt99 : No need. They have released it by their own accord. A better question, is when was the last time a Presidential Candidate only released 2 years of Ta
259 Post contains links bjorn14 : Nobody knows anything because Obama won't release his school records. We don't know how he paid for Punahou, Occidental, Columbia or Harvard. It cert
260 BMI727 : When those people are flat out wrong and lying to you, they do deserve it. You mean perfectly legal tax deductions that anyone could use? ...like how
261 mt99 : No need to speculate His tax return are avaiable an they show his student loans. Sure nothing wrong with it. So why hide it?
262 BMI727 : The IRS doesn't seem to have found anything wrong with it. It's the tin foil hat crowd coming to the forefront. There's no evidence of what they thin
263 seb146 : What were the outcomes of the audits done by IRS on Romney?
264 tugger : So what is it you are arguing about being against specious allegations? I mean you are trying to say they are a bad thing, right? Nothing. I doubt it
265 Post contains images Dreadnought : What does his father have with anything. Want to bring Obama's father into the discussion? He was a real sweetheart... Name any other politician who
266 Post contains images Ken777 : Look at Apple - they are the current "started in a garage" company going & blowing. Apple started in a garage because two friends liked playing a
267 BMI727 : Except that this little bit is perfectly legal and easily understandable. Only stupid people think otherwise. The exact same sort of deduction could
268 seb146 : So, if there is no problem, he can release his returns with no consequence. Release the returns and there will be no problems at all.
269 Dreadnought : Ah, there we have the crux of the matter. And thank you for confirming what we have been saying the past week. There is no real likelihood of Romney
270 Dreadnought : If there is no evidence of a crime, why should he?
271 BMI727 : He could. But then again, he doesn't have to. And since there's nothing that could be in there that would make you vote for him, what's the point? Th
272 Post contains links mt99 : Obama: 8 years McCain: 2 Years (Asked Romney to provide 23 years of tax returnes. - Sarah Palin was deemed a better candidate) Kerry: 5 Years Bush: 8
273 mt99 : Nothing. Now my turn: What form his tax returns would make you NOT vote for him.? The point is to help undecided voters learn and understand the kind
274 Confuscius : George Romney: 12 years The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Not in this case...must have been blown away.
275 BMI727 : I'm not sure that I'm voting for him now. To me he has to prove to be something besides "the one that isn't Obama" and I'm not convinced he is. Nothi
276 mt99 : or one that has something to hide! Presidential Candidate w privacy? HA! that a good one
277 seb146 : If there is no evidence of a crime, he can release every year of his returns with no consequence.
278 Post contains images Ken777 : SImple. The Father: Governor Romney, a successful businessman, running for President releases 12 years of tax returns, establishing a new standard of
279 bjorn14 : Yeah just opposite of what Obama did in wiping out 20,000 Delco worker's pensions in the Government Motors debacle. Just proof of hypocrisy--liberals
280 mt99 : I prefer a Ronald Reagan quote: "Trust but Verify" Again, if he has nothing to hide - why hide it?
281 bjorn14 : I like that too and that's why I want to see Obama's transcripts at least from college so I can determine if in fact he's the smartest President the
282 mt99 : Do you have GWB's transcripts? Clintons's? Reagan? Wilson's? Taft? Mitts? How else would you determine that he is the smartest President ever? Once y
283 Post contains links and images tugger : That you are saying this tells me you are being intentionally obtuse and the debate with you is meaningless as you are not willing to concede points
284 BMI727 : When something has been debunked and explained several times yet some persist in ignorance, yeah they are stupid. Here's a few more groups for the li
285 tugger : No one is claiming that any of the deductions he is taking are illegal or unethical. That has nothing to do with it. By the way, why do most politici
286 BMI727 : Then why do people keep mentioning it? Beats me. I'm not interested in seeing any of them.
287 Post contains links mt99 : The only one that can debunk for once and for all is Romney and he chooses not to. Is that really hard? Why not do it? Is he "gaming the system"? wou
288 Post contains links flood : Were the deduction for the horse unethical or illegal? No. Completely out of touch with everyday Americans? Absolutely. It's just another one of thos
289 Post contains images Ken777 : How many jobs did Bain & Co wipe out when Romney was there? How many millions did the Treasury get stuck with on bankrupt companies while Bain &a
290 BMI727 : Then how are you so certain about the $77,000 deduction on the horse? I'm not riding this horse anywhere. I don't care if his tax returns are done in
291 mt99 : And deny the opportunity of OTHERS that may want to see them? There might be plenty of "independent" voters that might see the Tax Returns and say: "
292 BMI727 : That's every bit as stupid as not voting for him because he used too many legal loopholes. It's not relevant information either way. Focus on the iss
293 flood : Including quite a number of Republican voices, I might add. It's entirely relevant. I don't doubt he paid taxes (although 2009 may be in question) bu
294 mt99 : Probably - but; who are you to tell OTHER that the reason for their vote is stupid? Like closing Tax Loopholes as his VP's budget calls for? I think
295 Post contains links flood : I've been wondering if Ryan would show solidarity with Romney and release only two years' worth of tax returns, making them both look bad - or if he w
296 Post contains links Ken777 : Of course. Willard knows how to find embarrassing items in tax returns. Interesting article - clearly hit some logical issues. My bet is that there i
297 seb146 : To slam it in everyone's face. You, like all right-wingers, are only screaming to prove how right you are. So is Romney. He wants so badly to be righ
298 Post contains images tugger : I don't know who is. This thread is titled: "Harry Reid (D-NV): A Liar?" and is about his statement and his statement never said anything was done im
299 flood : That sums it up well. Further, it would also set a bad precedent as it would provide all future candidates from both sides the excuse not to release
300 BMI727 : They're allowed to do it. But it's stupid. And look what happened: stupid people are trying to make him look bad based off a legal, and not especiall
301 Post contains images mt99 : I think it stupid not wanting to see them ..So there! (blow raspberry) Then why hide it?. Grab Fox news, grab some of the millions upon millions of d
302 BMI727 : ...and you'd be wrong. Let people chase their tails and melt down. Obama made a mistake releasing the long form birth certificate. Had he not done so
303 cws818 : In your mind only...and absolutely nowhere else. "BMI727" does not get to decide what "the issues" are. Why should anyone care what you - an armchair
304 BMI727 : I can't be the only sane person in the country who thinks that presidential elections shouldn't be reduced to a tax paying contest. There is nothing
305 cws818 : It is a factor that can be used to evaluate the candidate. You don't have to take it into consideration. Nevertheless, it is a factor that some peopl
306 flood : If the IRS is the all-knowing stamp of approval, why did Mitt demand multiple returns from his VP picks in the vetting process?
307 seb146 : According to a lot of people, the only source to be trusted is the far-right leaning FOX. Any other opinion is anti-American, according to those same
308 Ken777 : Or in the Caribbean. Or in Switzerland. Or in any other tax haven. "Morons"? You've moved across from "stupid"? Did you borrow someone's thesaurus? "
309 casinterest : That one tax return is going to burn him. Under Ryan's plan Romney would have paid under 1% in taxes.
310 zckls04 : Reading through this debate your position has become ever more ludicrous- are you saying that anybody who wants to know what is in the taxes of a pos
311 mt99 : Thank you - very well said. Be that as it may - then what? you hide the truth for being afraid of what may be said about it? That's cowardly. I want
312 BMI727 : Those people have issues. What's your point? I have no problem making judgments. Then Romney should let his opponents spin their wheels about tax ret
313 Post contains images tugger : Well he can't be cuz' he's a Muslim.... or haven't you heard.... This is where you show that you are not understanding the actual reason for it. It h
314 seb146 : We don't know that because Romney is not being transparent. Romney's own party DEMANDS that Obama be transparent. Always and without question. But, t
315 casinterest : ?????? We have the one return . You are not making much sense here other than the transparency I don't see it as off topic. it is still very much the
316 Ken777 : But you do have a problem with the quality of those judgements. It is going to be a situation where a lot of things are added to the Bain & Tax R
317 seb146 : Right. I don't want a person or party in power who has the "do as I say, not as I do" mentality. If they can't hold their own candidate to the same e
318 Dreadnought : See, this is the type of crap the Dems are trying to get us to go into. First of all - Romney is basically retired. He hasn't drawn a salary in over
319 Post contains images casinterest : Show me the returns. So he did all those speaking engagements and books for free? When it is negative, you claim it as a loss. I would love to see th
320 BMI727 : That's just it: it isn't. All tax returns will say is either he pays his taxes or he doesn't. You're either guilty of tax evasion or you aren't. Ther
321 zckls04 : Are you under the impression that people who want to see his tax returns are expecting him to have voluntarily given money to the IRS? I don't think
322 Dreadnought : Nobody has asked him for those. I don't know of any books or speaking engagements - but I expect that they pay normal income taxes. Then I guess you
323 flood : You're just skirting around the issue like he is.
324 Ken777 : On $20+ Million a Year? In a partnership ou make "withdrawals" instead of a salary. The withdrawal of partnership assets can avoid taxes, but the par
325 seb146 : Since the average middle class American makes less than $100,000 a year and specific taxes would apply to only those making over $1,000,000, I don't
326 BMI727 : That seems to be exactly the expectation, considering that nobody actually thinks that Romney did anything illegal. I'm a firm believer that the gove
327 BMI727 : It needs to be about maximizing the ceiling instead of raising the floor. I don't want the country that guarantees a middle class life. I want the co
328 Dreadnought : But as you said for partnerships, the gains have already been taxed at the company level. I have worked and lived in such a country, and the mistake
329 casinterest : I want to see the recent treturns this whole thread is about. No.. Deductions are an incentive, used by politicians to jumpstart the economy in areas
330 windy95 : No eliminating the Federal spending and entitlement programs will help alot. Actually having the feds spend on what is in the powers they are given i
331 BMI727 : Not entirely. This started long before him. The lottery is a tax on the stupid. If life is a casino, I want to play at the no limit table.
332 seb146 : So, it's money that matters. How Chrsitian. After all, greed is the main tenent of the right-wing Christian based political party. Nothing was stoppi
333 casinterest : So you want no insurance if you go in with 4 of a kind against a Royal Flush?
334 Dreadnought : 10 years only covers his "retired" years. On these we agree. In fact I think we should have sunset laws on ALL legislation, unless it is written into
335 Ken777 : I have a brother-in-law that spent his career as a tax attorney. He was very clear in saying that every time there was "tax simplification" his incom
336 LMP737 : Please provide some factual evidence of this. Not what you heard on Fox or talk radio.
337 BMI727 : It's what matters to me. It's just a little bit harder, which I don't appreciate. And whatever money I do make, I'd like to keep. Bullshit. You can't
338 Post contains images bjorn14 : That's the Main Stream Media's job He's the boss he can ask anything he wants. This thread alone proves why Romney shouldn't release anymore tax retu
339 casinterest : This thread is a perfect example of right wing hipocracy. Do as we say, not as we do, and hiding information is perfectly fine, especially when one's
340 BMI727 : How so?
341 seb146 : Not here. The few accountants there are around here are expensive. So those people that Bain Capital and similar companies unemployed... it is the wo
342 windy95 : Bain saved and created way more than had been lost. They rebuild broken companies. Why is that so hard to understand. Enough whining about it.
343 Post contains images Ken777 : Nor will it be possible to achieve a balanced budget without increasing tax revenues. And, if you want to see pain, wait until the GOP has to address
344 seb146 : Saved billions of dollars for the owners of Bain Capital by taking pensions and health care from workers. Bain Capital left factories all over the co
345 BMI727 : I doubt that financial services are that hard to come by. Either you're playing dumb or someone's about to get rich planning investments for people.
346 cws818 : No, it is not. Each voter is entitled to determine what issues he or she thinks are important. Not MSNBC, not Fox, and not BMI727. While it is true t
347 bjorn14 : You say those things like they are a bad thing. How about the Bush tax cuts SAVED Americans trillions so they could pursue life, liberty and happines
348 LMP737 : If Mitt Romney can't handle it then maybe he should find another line of work. It's funny you should say that considering people like you hounded the
349 casinterest : So in other words, the immediate needs of the present, outweighed the long term fiscal goals of the tax setup, and future generations were screwed.
350 seb146 : Go back and look. The steel mill in Ohio that is the point of the Obama attack ad was perfectly profitable. Until Bain Capital. After BC it was decim
351 bjorn14 : When his Kenyan grandma says he was born in Kenya and he put out that lie himself to his own press agent. So was he lying then or is he lying now? Vi
352 LMP737 : Thank you for proving my point by repeating dicredited birther lies.
353 BMI727 : Not enough apparently. Is that supposed to make me not like Romney? Businessmen making money is bad now?
354 zckls04 : If they do it at the expense of the people of the United State of America as its leader, then yes it would be. Is Mitt becoming president to enrich h
355 BMI727 : That's not a consideration unless the United States government is signing your checks. Go from being retired with a large fortune to one of the most
356 Ken777 : I don't. VAT and GST are actually unfair in that they consume a far higher percentage of lower income funds. VAT especially is a wet dream for the we
357 Post contains images zckls04 : Why on earth not? Are you serious? You think all presidential candidates just have the love of their country in mind?
358 BMI727 : That's no more unfair than systems that demand higher income people pay a larger percentage. It's better because you pay as much as you wish to pay.
359 LTBEWR : Apparently Mitt's wife has given an interview today where she said no more tax returns to be released. She could say no to any release as I presume by
360 Post contains images Ken777 : And have far more options to use loopholes to dramatically cur, or eliminate, their taxes. That's why Romney has a sident because they want to rewrit
361 seb146 : If they are making money and not hurting people. Like Steve Jobs or any sports player or Bill Gates. They actually started companies that produce stu
362 bjorn14 : Why would Granny lie? It'd be easier and cheaper to hire lobbyists to get the loopholes you wanted.
363 seb146 : Here's the problem: banks were de-regulated under Bush. Banks were able to use our money to make any investments they wanted because of little or no
364 Post contains links mt99 : Looks like he is feeling the pressure GREER, S.C. — Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney said Thursday that he has paid a tax rate of at le
365 DeltaMD90 : It's a business, not a charity. Are you saying that Romney would be incapable of leading differently than when he lead Bain? That's like saying a fig
366 mt99 : But a Government is not. Not he doesn't realize that a Government is not a business
367 Ken777 : Romney believes he can have his cake and eat it too. He obviously played some games in the past that he doesn't want the public to know about. And ye
368 DeltaMD90 : ...which is why the GOP wants to expand government? No Now if you think he'd push for measures that are "too good" for business that makes sense. But
369 mt99 : So then - Why is he banking on his "Business Experience" if he is not going to use it? It like him saying: I know how to fix health care i fixed MA h
370 DeltaMD90 : Again, does business experience mean he's going to run the government exactly like a business? I hear that interviewers for jobs love military office
371 mt99 : Let me ask you this.. how are you so sure that he would not? So why bring it up then as part of his camping? What would be the point then? Its like s
372 DeltaMD90 : Because I don't think it makes sense in the first place. They are 2 different organizations. The point I'm making is I don't get wrapped on it becaus
373 mt99 : I dint see Hitler change his positions on his beliefs too often.. Nor Stalin They were evil.
374 DeltaMD90 : That's not my point, and we're just arguing in circles. My point is I think Romney mentioned his business experience because 1: it shows he has leade
375 mt99 : It doesn't matter if i agree with his positions or not. Answer this: Do leaders change their positions from one day to the next like Romney has? (Not
376 bjorn14 : Closest thing he had to a real job besides his Baskin Robbin's job. I'd love to see his billing records from Sidley Austin.
377 DeltaMD90 : He was a US Senator... agree or disagree with how he did as a Senator, or if he was a Senator long enough before becoming President, but that's a lot
378 BMI727 : Glass-Steagall was repealed under Clinton.
379 tugger : Funny, that is the exact opposite of what I want. I think tax policies should maximize the flow of money such the greatest amount of money can be ear
380 Ken777 : What he is saying is that the system he signed off on (RomneyCare) is really not that great an idea so he will kill the national version of his healt
381 BMI727 : You mean redistribution of wealth. The key there is "earn." Simply taking from the rich to give to the poor leads nowhere. Really? Does the Army do a
382 tugger : No, not at all, at least in the way you are attempting to frame it. When you get right down to it, if you actually think about it, all of capitalism
383 seb146 : What I want to know is: if all these things are privatized under the right-wing, who will pave roads and build bridges and maintain dams and give citi
384 Post contains images BMI727 : That's exactly what a lot of liberals are proposing: use the wealthy as America's piggy bank and tax their way to solvency. Certain groups aren't too
385 tugger : Really? Where? That tax rates should return to where they were is not a "piggy bank" action. It is intelligent. It is obvious. Really? When is that h
386 BMI727 : It can't because the Feds can print money. But setting up a high tax, high regulation, high spending environment is toxic and viewing the national bu
387 tugger : If you believe that only cuts will solve all the problems you are sadly misinformed. And one does not have to occur before the other. Both actions ne
388 BMI727 : Not proportionately with what they have to pay. Except that the rich get to pay more and in many ways do not get more. If I'm going to pay more for s
389 tugger : Yes, proportionate. We all make different amounts throughout our lives and at different times access the various levels of societal benefits througho
390 bjorn14 : Oh I forgot, Democrats evolve and Republicans flip-flop It was Contract With America and quit quoting Clinton. your bias is really showing.
391 casinterest : Quit calling out folks with some sort of superiority for your same basic flaw. It is really ignorant on your part.
392 seb146 : Drive through rural Wyoming and tell me how toll roads would work out there. Massive loss of employment in this country is a bad thing. I see. I was
393 Dreadnought : PG&E went bankrupt a decade ago, after being forced to buy power at market rates but selling it at a lower, fixed price dictated by the Californi
394 Post contains links BMI727 : I don't think that they do. They aren't the ones collecting welfare, Medicare, etc. The point is that if you want to run the country on the wealthy's
395 mt99 : And these "market rates" where artificially inflated by ENRON traders. Se above the "Market" was being played by one Mr. Ken Lay..
396 tugger : The wealthy are largely the ones "writing the rules" and again if you don't understand that I don't know where you get your knowledge. We also happen
397 Post contains links bjorn14 : And now Obama wants to "Let's Make A Deal" with Romney about releasing 5 years of tax returns after first wanting 10 years. Obama will call a tax truc
398 mt99 : Obama (smartly so) wants to keep the conversation going... Sure - but what percentage of tax did he pay?
399 casinterest : Romney declined. But it is sad o see you still don't understand the motivation for requesting them. Maybe Norway keeps those, but those documents are
400 Post contains images Ken777 : And under Bush/Cheney that redistribution has been from the middle class to the wealthy. Sort of the wrong direction if one of your goals is long ter
401 bjorn14 : I am an American citizen I can get a copy of any of my records. I recently had to submit a certified copy of college transcripts from the early 1980'
402 SA7700 : As this thread is no longer on track and discussing Harry Reid per se, as per the original post, it will be locked for further contributions. Any post
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