comorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4861 posts, RR: 16 Posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4130 times:
I read an interesting piece on alternet about how Israel is likely to attack Iran in the next12 weeks (before the US election). The reason given is that neither candidate can afford to say anything against such an action at this time. I do hope this doesn't happen as we are all (including Islaelis) heartily sick of wars and need to move on with economic matters.
At a more cynical level, the article points out that a war with Iran would raise gas prices, and that would help Romney win.
Apologies if this has been discussed before, but I will do anything to avoid using that search engine.
Will this act be catastrophic to the region? What will the US and EU do?
Iran is a large country with 70 million people, and they already fought a sustained war with Iraq. Why would they fold?
How would neighboring countries react and who will they side with?
Dreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8369 posts, RR: 24 Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4119 times:
If you look at the placement of our carriers, you have to wonder if something is up.
We have no carriers in the Atlantic or Med (when was the last time that happened?). One in the Pacific doing workups for eventual deployment, and two in the Persian Gulf region. It will be interesting to find out where Nimitz heads off to once they are up to steam. If anything is to happen (assuming the US knows about it) it will before the Enterprise heads home (it's final mission before decommissioning), and after Nimitz arrives, giving a 3-carrier force.
flyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 1651 posts, RR: 10 Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4109 times:
Israel will attack some underground nuclear facilities, pound them for one week straight with various bombs and cruise missiles, and two years later, the Israeli PM will declare: "They are STILL working on nuclear weapons!"
The worst thing is a solution to the whole problem, as this would cause a serious headache in the politicians' minds. Israel has already struggled with the revolution in Egypt.
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8308 posts, RR: 26 Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4058 times:
Looking at the chart, the US is not prepared for that. They'd need to deploy at least 2 carriers to the Mediterranean Sea. OK, that could be rather quick from Norfolk provided these convoys are ready to sail.
What could not go unnoticed is the assembly of KC135/KC10s . i doubt that israel could hit that with their own ressources and what I remember having seen at FRA, the huge line-up of support aircraft during the Balkan war, such a line-up would not go unnoticed. Israel could do a hit and run strike to neighbour Syria where the chief of the air foirce might still have been under the shower while the jets had been back on base in Israel, with the greater distance to Iran and the equipment they would need to destroy the facilities deep in the earth that would be too much to handle for them.
besides, Iran would retaliate with missiles and the Hezbollah in lebanon would strom the northern border. Israel has better means to pinch the Iranians and they shpould sit out the developments in syria. Without Assad Iran is pretty lonely.
N537FX From Switzerland, joined Oct 2009, 99 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 4014 times:
Any israeli attack would be a big disaster, who knows if it could actually work. There seems to be a perception in Jerusalem that the US is not serous about a military option. Even if the US was serious, Israel would never out source their "security" to another country and when threatened, Israel will act no matter what.
Also consider the great distance Israel must travel to hit Iran. When Iran hits back at Israel, they have to go through these same hurdles and I'm not sure they have good enough power projection. They have a poor Air force, so all they can do is call up their proxies armed with fire crackers and Iran itself can launch their own missiles, some will be intercepted by Israel's advanced missile defenses.
So how well can Iran hit Israel? Iran wouldn't dare attack US targets or interests, they don't want to fight America. As a result, since they can't attack American targets, their response will be limited and just focused at Israel.
I recently thought of World War II's merchant raiders. Really low-tech, and could wreak some havoc. They would be really dumb if they had no plan to strike back at either Israel or the U.S. - even if it would take them some years to retaliate.
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
Also, you cant attack a nation of 70m people and not kick up a hornet's nest...while sanctions can help turn Iranians against their rulers, an attack would unite them, undoing years of Western foreign policy. I think this is a region where the US keeps the peace, and the nations there count on it.
flyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 1651 posts, RR: 10 Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3960 times:
Quoting comorin (Reply 9): while sanctions can help turn Iranians against their rulers
The emphasis is on "can". The Iranians have a long and bitter history of having their rulers overthrown by western forces, or the country being occupied. One can look up the history of the AIOC, the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, the precursor to British Petroleum.
The current strategy called "if sanctions do not work, use tougher sanctions" will inevitably fail. Iran isn't in a position where it can lose anything (except its relations to China or Russia), and so we should give them something they are liable to lose again - like free access to any civilian-purpose goods.
If goods do not cross frontiers, soldiers will.
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
casinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3805 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3957 times:
Quoting NoUFO (Reply 7): If U.S. carriers are supposed to support Israel, why would you want them in the Med or Atlantic? Apparently, there are two carriers and an LPD in the Gulf of Oman and thus close to Iran.
A carrier close to Israel would achieve nothing - other than providing Assad with arguments that the rebellion in his country was driven by the U.S.
The Carriers in the Gulf are there to support the Afghanistan Mission, and "courtesy patrols" of the Persian Gulf.
I don't think Israel would spefically decide based on an election to attack or not. The future ramifications would not be pleasent. However I do think Israel will attack at any time they see the opportunity,, or are provoked and will hopefully consult their allies prior to doing so
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
Ken777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7857 posts, RR: 8 Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3933 times:
Regardless of what Israel might want to do, I believe that they have learned some lessons from our disastrous invasion of Iraq. The Bush/Cheney Administration thought it would a quick "war" with little cost. It turned into a 10 year farce with 40,000+ Purple Hearts awarded and more Americans killed than we lost in 9/11.
I believe that farce has had an impact on the leaders of Israel and, much as they might hate it, the price we paid may be a deterrent.
I am interested in the aftermath of such an attack.
1) Would Russia attack Israel? Russia-Iran relations have been pretty cozy.
2) Would this galvanize the Iranian people to support the current government or might it lead the way to an Iranian Spring?
3) What effect would this have on relations between Israel and its neighbors like Jordan, Egypt, etc.?
4) An attack on Iran may cause a local nuclear disaster with radioisotopes scattered all over the place. Would the Israelis also attack Bushehr? I hope they wouldn't be that foolish. Bushehr is closer to Kuwait City, Riyadh, Manama, Doha, Abu Dhabi, and Muscat than it is to Tehran.
Quoting Ken777 (Reply 12): Regardless of what Israel might want to do, I believe that they have learned some lessons from our disastrous invasion of Iraq. The Bush/Cheney Administration thought it would a quick "war" with little cost. It turned into a 10 year farce with 40,000+ Purple Hearts awarded and more Americans killed than we lost in 9/11.
The lesson to be taken is to do it the way that GHW Bush did it and not the way that GW Bush did it. Gulf I was a rapid strike that drove the Iraqis back from our ally. Gulf II was an attempt at "nation building." Remember that militaries do not build nations. Militaries exist to mess things up and break things (and to remind enemies that you have that ability). Much as diplomats make poor soldiers, weapons make poor construction tools.
If the Israelis attack, they will do a series of aerial and ballistic attacks. I very much doubt that they plan for a single pair of Israeli feet to touch Iranian soil. They want to set the Iranian nuclear program back by about two decades.
EL-AL From Israel, joined Oct 2001, 1215 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 3914 times:
While most of the Israel/Iran talk is about the possible military action aginst Iran's nuclear program, you guys must not forget the reason: "Iran Supreme Leader: Israel will vanish from the 'landscape of geography'".
At the bottom line we have a country 70 times larger then Israel that promise time and time again to destroy my home, to kill my family and vanish my country from the face of earth. This country must not have an atom bomb, no matter what.
"In our country, those who do not believe in miracles are irrational" - David Ben Gurion.
DocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 17953 posts, RR: 57 Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3882 times:
Quoting EL-AL (Reply 14): While most of the Israel/Iran talk is about the possible military action aginst Iran's nuclear program, you guys must not forget the reason: "Iran Supreme Leader: Israel will vanish from the 'landscape of geography'".
There is a lot of talk. I doubt that they would make a nuclear strike against an ally of the largest nuclear power in the world.
Quoting EL-AL (Reply 14): This country must not have an atom bomb, no matter what.
I certainly agree with that. But let us not forget that they don't have a bomb. Even if they have the plutonium and tritium for one, it takes a long time to build. Then they have to waste one in a test. Then they need a delivery system. And the good news there is that there is no way to do a clandestine nuclear explosion.
tugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5013 posts, RR: 8 Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3880 times:
My thoughts are that Israel is trying the rattle the sabre as hard as possible to get everyone thinking that an attack is inevitable. I think they want to convince and embolden the militant fanatics within Iran (and their allies) to get them to attack in some way first (preemptively), to which they can respond decisively.
Not saying that Israel will not absolutely do on its own what it needs to do if it firmly believes it must do it but I also think they fully understand the politics of the whole issue too.
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
DeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 6600 posts, RR: 51 Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3847 times:
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13): 1) Would Russia attack Israel? Russia-Iran relations have been pretty cozy.
As much as Russia seems to support countries the US doesn't, I doubt Russia would attack Israel directly... that would invite a war with the US which I'm sure neither side wants. I could see Russia supplying Iran though. (Not gonna comment on which side would be right or wrong)
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13): 2) Would this galvanize the Iranian people to support the current government or might it lead the way to an Iranian Spring?
I think it would strengthen the Iranian government. I think the current strategy, at least from the US's side, is to wait until an Iran revolt takes place (one much stronger than the one a few years ago) and once we're sure the rebels will win, supply the rebels and do airstrikes similar to Libya. Not sure if that is what Israel wants (or even if that's what the US is doing.)
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13): 3) What effect would this have on relations between Israel and its neighbors like Jordan, Egypt, etc.?
I don't think many Arab nations like Iran. They don't really like Israel either, so they might condemn Israel publicly but secretly want the demise of Iran (and/or Israel.)
Just my 2c. I wish Baroque was still with us... he'd have some good insight on the matter (RIP)
kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12166 posts, RR: 35 Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks ago) and read 3818 times:
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 19): I don't think many Arab nations like Iran. They don't really like Israel either, so they might condemn Israel publicly but secretly want the demise of Iran (and/or Israel.)
My thoughts exactly; recently, we've had the Saudis saying they would shoot down Israeli acft flying over their territory; my foot! They would view the destruction of the Iranian nuclear and military (and better still, political) infrastructure with no little amount of glee - same with all of the Arab Gulf states.
I'm not a military person, but I've always believed that if Israel attacks, it cannot be just an attack on nuclear facilites; it has to be a wide ranging attack, taking out their communications systems, command & control, as much of the political elite/ infrastructure as they can; basically, make sure that after the attack, Iran is insufficiently functioning as a viable entity to even think about responding. And of course, they need to make sure that they as prepared as possible for anything Hezbollah throws at them.
Quoting PHX787 (Reply 18): Israel attacking Iran- Right now, if they continue to have this standoff, it's pretty much inevitable.
It seems to me that, all of a sudden, the jungle drums have been banging a lot more loudly over the past week or so. I wonder if this might be because Israel has obtained new intelligence as to Iran's capability?
scbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 11793 posts, RR: 48 Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3793 times:
Quoting EL-AL (Reply 14): At the bottom line we have a country 70 times larger then Israel that promise time and time again to destroy my home, to kill my family and vanish my country from the face of earth.
No, you have a country 70 times larger than Israel with a slightly unhinged figurehead who makes ridiculous public statements about Israel.
kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12166 posts, RR: 35 Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3776 times:
Quoting scbriml (Reply 21): No, you have a country 70 times larger than Israel with a slightly unhinged figurehead who makes ridiculous public statements about Israel.
In fairness, Khamenei is more than a figurehead - and that's not the kind of person you want to having the nuclear button at his fingertips. We need to understand the Israelis better. Virtually all Israelis of (continental) European descent will have had a relative who was lost to the holocaust; that must weigh very heavily on the Israeli psyche. I don't particularly like Netanyahu, but as PM of Israel, he has a responsibility to protect his country and his people and when they come across someone of this kind who makes aggressive and vitriolic comments about their country and the country they represents is developing the ability to develop nuclear weapons, then you make sure that this threat is challenged head on and if necessary, eradicated.
Let's also not forget that with Assad out of the way (not yet, but shortly), the political chessboard in the M/E changes and with no regional friends, Iran's need to have a nuclear weapon becomes all the more urgent.
connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13 Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3737 times:
Quoting casinterest (Reply 11): I don't think Israel would spefically decide based on an election to attack or not. The future ramifications would not be pleasent. However I do think Israel will attack at any time they see the opportunity,, or are provoked and will hopefully consult their allies prior to doing so
I agree, and will ask a pointed question: would an Israeli attack actually achieve anything ? Iran is known to produce super-hard concrete (I've mentioned this before) which can withstand 40-50,000 psi shearing force. Normal concrete is about 11-12,000 and "reinforced" concrete perhaps 15,,000. Bury that under 30-50 metres of diret and would a bunker buster work ? Would a battlefield nuke work ? Good to know these thnigs before charging off with the light brigade.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13):
1) Would Russia attack Israel? Russia-Iran relations have been pretty cozy.
Putin would have to think Israel would reply, perhasp with a "demonstration" nuclear event, in his own back yard. Once Israel started building their own gadgets and Jericho II missiles, that's when Russia started paying attention to Israel.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13): 4) An attack on Iran may cause a local nuclear disaster with radioisotopes scattered all over the place. Would the Israelis also attack Bushehr?
I'm not at all sure the radioisotopes would be a big problem, there'd be bigger ones.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 13): If the Israelis attack, they will do a series of aerial and ballistic attacks. I very much doubt that they plan for a single pair of Israeli feet to touch Iranian soil. They want to set the Iranian nuclear program back by about two decades.
I've said before, if Iran wants nuclear weapons I think it's their sovereign right. Look at India and remains of Pakistan, sworn enemies, no first use. Having them actually imposes a form of discipline on your political class.
Quoting EL-AL (Reply 14): At the bottom line we have a country 70 times larger then Israel that promise time and time again to destroy my home, to kill my family and vanish my country from the face of earth. This country must not have an atom bomb, no matter what
"No matter what" - at ANY price ? And I believe an accurate translation of Khamenei's statement is more along the lines of "the Zionist entity will disappear". Perhaps he was referring to a one-state solution: Palestine.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15): There is a lot of talk. I doubt that they would make a nuclear strike against an ally of the largest nuclear power in the world
flyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 1651 posts, RR: 10 Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3735 times:
What worries me also is that the Israeli government has a strong belief in military action. But they have no plan B whatsoever in case the operation doesn't achieve its goals. Then, the UN, the US and the whole international community has to save Israels collective a$$es again.
We've seen it in 2006, the Lebanon war. The latest conflict in the Gaza strip. And the Turkish ship recently.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 15): I certainly agree with that. But let us not forget that they don't have a bomb. Even if they have the plutonium and tritium for one, it takes a long time to build. Then they have to waste one in a test. Then they need a delivery system. And the good news there is that there is no way to do a clandestine nuclear explosion.
Yes. I've read an estimate of 20 million $ to build one nuclear bomb, and it can be done quite clandestinely, but never mind radiation safety, proper engineering work, reliability, a delivery system, a testing series, and quite a few things more...
There are really more worrisome things in the world than Iran. Like homelessness and unemployment in Israel itself. This is killing people every day.
Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 17): You should see the convoys of goods heading to Iran via Azerbaijan everyday, I've been pretty close to the border and seen them, hundreds of trucks everyday. More convoys go via Turkmenistan.
Yes. Why drive Iran to do prosperous trade with Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, not to mention China and Russia?
In the days before the revolution, El Al's most profitable flights were those to Tehran. At least that's what I've read here...
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
25 redflyer: Not a chance. Russia's leadership would not get involved directly in a Middle East conflict, and they would fear the backlash of their citizenry. Mos
26 TheCol: Highly unlikely. Netanyahu and Barak have a mountain of political and military opposition against a strike on Iran. Since Netanyahu is already in the
27 scbriml: He is, but I was talking about Ahmadinejad! Khamenei has actually done a good job in trying to keep Iran stable and, as far as I'm aware, has never m
28 flyingturtle: Anybody with half a brain can arrive at this conclusion. Time and again, Israel has said that a military operation will solve a specific "problem" fo
29 ZANL188: If their intent is truly to hit the Israelis why would they give up the advantage of surprise by testing? Even if it fizzles it's still a massive "di
30 TheCommodore: Nothing more than hot air, and a lot of it ! Absolutely it will be catastrophic for the region. A region in which, Israel is a part of. If Israel att
31 SFBdude: I think you (and most other people) are taking this whole "wiping off the map" thing a little too literal. It even states in the link you provided th
32 LTBEWR: I think much of this is more about for domestic consumption in Israel by the right wing parties that control government there and want to stay in powe
33 Quokkas: An attack on Iran by Israel would have little effect on relations with her neighbours. Indeed, I might suggest that an attack would have to have at le
34 zkojq: There was this exact same speculation in the runup to the last US election. Just hot air IMO. If there is war however, I hope that whichever nation at
35 comorin: As the OP of this thread, and in accordance with the sentiments expressed, I would like to dedicate this thread to the memory of our irreplaceable fri
36 BMI727: Might make gas prices jump, but probably not much worse than that. See how many shekels we can make selling weapons to the Israelis. And make sure th
37 PHX787: Yeah I think that the more that Israel gets in supposed "intelligence" the closer to war they are. I'm neither confirming nor denying what they're sa
38 MadameConcorde: You all seem to have forgotten one thing... Are Israel really capable of bombing a country which has the oldest and also one of the most numerous Jewi
39 KiwiRob: Sounds remarkably like what you lot did to the Palestinians, as they say you reap what you sow.
40 kaitak: Another aspect of this whole issue is what Romney said to the Israelis; what was said behind closed doors. It's no secret that the Israelis would love
41 MillwallSean: Somehow whats been missed is that Iran has another friend in the middle east. Its called Iraq and they are a closer friend than Syria has ever been.
42 MadameConcorde: Quds Day Iranian President Ahmadinejad: "The existence of the Zionist regime is an insult to all humanity" note how he avoids naming Israel directly,
43 OA260: Interesting Sky News report. On right hand side under higlights section . : Video: Israelis Prepare For Potential Iran Conflict http://news.sky.com/wo
44 flyingturtle: Hmmm.... hmmmmm....... because it isn't worth the costs? In Israel, we have social unrest. Soldiers are meagerly paid. Mr. Ahmadinejad is full of rhe
45 MadameConcorde: It is not just the Iranian clerics and President Ahmadinejad... they've got Israel-hating "friends" in other places which we hardly hear about. Promin
46 scbriml: Yes, because any attack would be targeted against Iran's nuclear facilities. The Israelis are not going to carpet bomb down-town Tehran.
47 flyingturtle: I have read - in Switzerland - a Christian magazine that said that all Muslims were descendants of the Devil himself. We aren't impartial either. And
48 MadameConcorde: raises more questions: 1/ why then attack Iran? 2/ who will pay for the war? Israel and rhe US. are broke - we know it - and so are the UK. and Franc
49 OA260: Signing something and having a different agenda behind closed doors makes a world of difference too. Im no Israel fan but Im not naive with regards t
50 connies4ever: All very good points, and the information is fairly accessible. Possibly because large swathes of the American media businesses are either controlled
51 flyingturtle: In one important point, Mr. Netanyahu and Mr. Ahmadinejad are close brethren - they both love the sound of rattling sabres! Both are men with tough w
52 something: Actually, I am convinced that sanctions have an adverse effect. You have to look at the situation from an Iranian perspective: The people there aren'
53 Dreadnought: Israel has dealt with such things before - the most extreme of which was in 1967 and 73 when the whole Arab world went for their throat. But it was c
54 flyingturtle: Even if that's true, the weapons still need to be tested. You don't want to use five nuclear weapons among which two will be duds and another two wil
55 mham001: We routinely rotate 2-3 carriers in and around the region. Which highlights just how important it is to get our transportation system off oil and mad
56 ZANL188: Why would the Iranians test them? Assuming they have the capability... A test will provoke a response in which case Iran will likely lose - or have s
57 Dreadnought: It's simple physics. The theory, configurations etc are well established. As ZANL188 pointed out, the Little Boy gun-type bomb had never been tested
58 connies4ever: Which is exactly why Israel has never officially commented on any nuclear weapons it may or may not have. Although we all know what the reality is. T
59 MadameConcorde: Name me one single country Iran has declared war on in the last 100 years?
60 connies4ever: Can't think of any. Mind you, I am not aware of any formal declaration of war since more or less the end of WW2. That said, Iran is sponsoring Hezbol
61 MadameConcorde: More attack on Iran speculation: Insider "NATO:Israel will attack Iran august 20, 2012" This is a Belgian/Brussels Professor. His field is Middle East
62 connies4ever: Apparently not everyone in Israel is enamored of Bibi's grand plan to "stop" Iran's nuclear program - even if that's possible: http://news.nationalpos
63 zkojq: ....and kill a lot of Palestinians, Jordanians, Lebanese and possibly Egyptians as well. What exactly does Iran have to gain from this? Additionally,
64 OA260: Indeed they have a massive stock pile since the last war with Israel. Alot of them are longer range too .
65 flyingturtle: And born in Tehran to parents from Esfahan... David
66 PHX787: I would like to say Iraq but I'm not brushed up on my middle eastern history.
67 Dreadnought: You are making the assumption that the Iranian leadership is rational, and not ruled by Islamic fundamentalists.
68 MadameConcorde: Israel and the IDF seems to be itching to attack the Iranians. Tonight is New Moon. Let's see if anything happens. There is still tonight and tomorrow
69 Dreadnought: Your evidence of this? They have no death-wish.
70 LTBEWR: By the way, today is the end of Ramadan, the major holy period of Islam. Hajj, is in the Christian calendar October 24 - 29 and I don't think Iran wou
71 zkojq: Is the North Korean leadership rational?
72 victrola: The Iranian leadership uses and interprets Islam as it pleases in order to advance Iranian national ambitions. These people crave power and will do w
73 TheCommodore: Like most politicians world wide ! This thread is not about Iran launching an attack against Israel, actually, its the other way round. Lets us all h
74 TheCol: So you're guessing then? Since when? Last time I checked, the IDF wasn't to cozy with the idea.
75 connies4ever: Many times I thought under Bush 2 that the US was ruled by Christian fundamentalists. Just as dangerous (see: Iraq). Your evidence ? See Mofaz's comm
76 Quokkas: The Iran - Iraq war began on the 22 September 1980 when Iraq launched simultaneous land and air attacks on Iranian territory. While Iran quickly repe
77 NASCARAirforce: This is just all an excuse just to make the oil companies richer - hype up a bunch of speculation of what could happen in the mideast so that oil pric
78 MadameConcorde: Haaretz: Former Israeli intelligence chief: Netanyahu and Barak dangerously stoking flames of war Maj. Gen. (res.) Uri Saguy, who was head of the IDF
79 777way: Speaking of which the anti-christ will be Jewish and born in Isfahan.
80 MadameConcorde: Going back to the thread title, Israel's leader determined to go to war against Iran befofre the U.S. election. ... Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin
81 PHX787: It won't happen. Israel and Iran right now are ALL talk. I've officially changed my position on this; it's not gonna happen---right now, at least. No
82 Acheron: On a practical level. Russia props up Iran, Iran keeps Saudi Arabia busy and a busy Saudi Arabia stays away from supporting the chechen rebels to muc
83 PHX787: What would such a 'puppet' be like? Shariah?
84 Acheron: Expect another theocracy, which is what the region needs...not.
85 DocLightning: The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to agree with you. I think that this would be a very foolish move for Israel to make given that this
86 PHX787: IDIOTS! I can't believe people actually believe theocracies are the way to go. What a bunch of crap! Libya's ruling parties are secular, actually
87 WrenchBender: Libya is North Africa, not the Middle East WrenchBender
88 Flighty: I will cheer for nonviolence and total defeat of war mongering thugs.
89 connies4ever: Having dated women named Feldbrill and Rubin, I doubt what you're intending. Having spent more time in the temple than church, I hear you. But I get