Aeri28 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 594 posts, RR: 0 Posted (9 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1144 times:
Hi there. Could a native French speaker please help me on a small phrase that someone wrote to me? I was chatting with someone from Lyon who was a bit too proud to text in French, but rather in broken English (understandable as he is here in Honolulu studying English for a few weeks). We had a misunderstanding due to that. Well, texting in a foreign language is never the proper solution now is it? lol.
"Je me confond en excuse et tu me dis pas la peine"
"Je suis toujours embete de ce desagrement". I dont understand how "TOUJOURS" fits into this???
I appreciate any help, it is really the NUANCE I am trying to get. I've studied French and can get by fine, it is just the hidden meaning I am trying to get. Not looking for babelfish or google translate users. I can do that lol.
The quick story is I was supposed to meet someone here in Honolulu from France. Typical lost in translation texts ensued over the course of a week. Finally I said we could meet another time, he apologized for his bad English. I said "no need apologize".
(In Hawaii , that is how we say things. No need. No need worry. No need give. No need drive. No need come. No need pay. )
He thought I was saying there was no need FOR ME to apologize for suggesting another day. This kind of set him off for some odd reason . Anyway, the above is what he wrote and I understand it, but I don't quite get the "embete" part and how "toujuours" fits into it.
We hashed it out eventually (I think) but I still was put off by his outburst (which I did not provide) and attribute it to the mis fortune of texting in a foreign language.
flyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 1268 posts, RR: 2 Reply 1, posted (9 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1134 times:
Hi Aeri,
I hope my 11 years of French at school will help anything...
Quoting Aeri28 (Thread starter): "Je suis toujours embete de ce desagrement". I dont understand how "TOUJOURS" fits into this???
It perfectly fits.
"I am always bored/angered/annoyed by this inconvenience/ungratefulness". Or "I am bored/angered/angered all the time by this inconvenience/ungratefulness."
Like angry women like to say... "Your habits are worrying me all the time!", just to make her point a bit bolder. I don't really know "...all the time!" being used by English-language speakers, and so you are on the right track by asking here.
David
Even a letdown, if it is thoroughly and final, is a step forward.
Aeri28 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 594 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (9 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1124 times:
Thanks David... i was somehow reading "desagrement' as disagreement. Hence, my wondering how 'always' fit into 'disagrement, as I never had any disagreement with him.
GrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2511 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (9 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1056 times:
Quoting DNDTUF (Reply 3): I am apologising profusely and you're telling me there's no point.
That is correct.
Quoting DNDTUF (Reply 3): I am still annoyed by this disagreement / inconvenience
I'd say it's correct too, but I struggle to really understand the meaning of the French sentence... I would probably have formulated it in another way.
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 4): ...now I've walked into this trap... in my mind, I've stored "encore" for "still", while "toujours" was reserved for "always"...
Quoting Aeri28 (Reply 5): I too never would have associated Toujours with 'still'. But I think i've seen it used as so before
Sometimes the word "still" can be translated as "encore" or "toujours". They act as synonyms, depending on the context.
For example: "Are you still there?" can be translated as "tu es toujours là ?" or "tu es encore là ?".
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
ManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 2971 posts, RR: 51 Reply 7, posted (9 months 5 days ago) and read 1044 times:
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The correct translation so far was:
Quoting DNDTUF (Reply 3): "I am apologising profusely and you're telling me there's no point."
Quoting DNDTUF (Reply 3): "I am still annoyed by this disagreement / inconvenience."
I'm a bit surprised (or maybe not) that native French speakers are the ones with the most terrible grammar mistakes/omissions or lack of punctuation. Also, they omit accents. Actually, our French teacher at school was telling us that we (as a class) had much better grammar competence than the average native French student.
Kids nowadays go as far as writing the verbs without declining them. "Je suis aller" instead of "Je suis allé". They use the infinite form instead of the past, as in "I have go" instead of "I have gone". This really irks me, especially in text messages, where I always have a hard time understanding what they actually mean.
GrahamHill From France, joined Mar 2007, 2511 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (9 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1028 times:
Quoting ManuCH (Reply 7): I'm a bit surprised (or maybe not) that native French speakers are the ones with the most terrible grammar mistakes/omissions or lack of punctuation. Also, they omit accents. Actually, our French teacher at school was telling us that we (as a class) had much better grammar competence than the average native French student.
It's the result of the poor reforms conducted by the "Ministère de l'enseignement supérieur" over the last 20 years...
You also have to take into account that spoken French and written French are almost two different languages. The written French is very rigid, and does not "evolve" as fast as the spoken one.
The appearance of mobile phones and heavy use of text messages did not help either.
That said, let's not put everyone in the same basket. Lots of French know how to write flawlessly.
Quoting ManuCH (Reply 7): Kids nowadays go as far as writing the verbs without declining them. "Je suis aller" instead of "Je suis allé". They use the infinite form instead of the past, as in "I have go" instead of "I have gone". This really irks me, especially in text messages, where I always have a hard time understanding what they actually mean.
It irks me too
"A learned fool is more foolish than an ignorant one" - Moliere
DNDTUF From France, joined Feb 2012, 21 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (9 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1022 times:
Quoting ManuCH (Reply 7): I'm a bit surprised (or maybe not) that native French speakers are the ones with the most terrible grammar mistakes/omissions or lack of punctuation. Also, they omit accents. Actually, our French teacher at school was telling us that we (as a class) had much better grammar competence than the average native French student.
I've noticed this too. I've spent the past two years teaching Translation Studies at university level in France and I was shocked at the number of common mistakes the students were making. I was was slightly apprehensive about having to correct the students' French but it soon became apparent that I could spot a fair few errors. Like you said, the most common ones were conjugating the past participle - I've had countless "j'ai étudier and j'ai étudiez" in papers! It's like they are spelling like they talk.
That said, I think the "official rules" for French are really far away from what average people use. Some of the proposals of the Académie are just downright silly!!
However, there's nothing nicer than flawless, beautifully written French.
flyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 1268 posts, RR: 2 Reply 10, posted (9 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 997 times:
Quoting ManuCH (Reply 7): Kids nowadays go as far as writing the verbs without declining them. "Je suis aller" instead of "Je suis allé". They use the infinite form instead of the past, as in "I have go" instead of "I have gone".
What? Remembers me a bit of Norwegian.
Quoting DNDTUF (Reply 9): I've had countless "j'ai étudier and j'ai étudiez" in papers! It's like they are spelling like they talk.
I don't know how one manages to get college/university entry quailfication here while doing these errors... if we wrote "j'ai étudier", our teachers would suffer from seizures.
David
[Edited 2012-08-17 11:12:58]
Even a letdown, if it is thoroughly and final, is a step forward.
Aesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 4774 posts, RR: 9 Reply 11, posted (9 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 972 times:
I'm French and don't really understand the sentences either. I think the internet and mobile phones did a lot of damage, far more than education, and this happened in only a few years, as I can compare myself to my younger sister. I'm 28 and interested in technical stuff (but was always good in letters too), she's 20 and actually studying letters (in a "prépa" and also getting a Sorbonne degree) yet I often discovers that she doesn't know the meaning of some words or would make simple grammatical mistakes. It's worrying considering she's a good student, the bad ones must be hopeless ! The difference is that I was already a teenager when internet and mobile phones appeared while she grew up with them.
At least it means I don't have to fear the younger competition if they can't write properly, I also hear they've got pretty poor English skills even at the best engineering schools !
In the second sentence I think the writer made a French/English mixup. He meant disagreement => désaccord. Sometimes I have trouble finding my French too, English is so much simpler !
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