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No More White Cadet Pilots For South African Airways?  
User currently offlineirregking From Germany, joined Feb 2008, 145 posts, RR: 0
Posted (2 years 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 10805 times:

Mod's please delete if duplicate.


I just read this... Are they serious?

http://www.fin24.com/Companies/Trave...hite-cadet-pilots-for-SAA-20120817

http://stopkwotas.co.za/saa-petition/


Worked on: A300,310,319,320,321,332,333,342,343,346,380,B732/3/4/5,744,DC10 -- Currently working on: A380 only
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesbworcs From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 842 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10606 times:

Awful if correct. I don't believe in any form of discrimination - be it old, current or to correct %'s


The best way forwards is upwards!
User currently offlinetonystan From Ireland, joined Jan 2006, 1423 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 10501 times:

South Africa isnt coming across well in the media at all this week now is it?


My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
User currently offlineTVNWZ From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 2368 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 10292 times:

Quoting sbworcs (Reply 1):

So, how do you go about correcting the blatant discrimination and injusticies of the past? Just let it slide?


User currently offlineTupolevTu154 From Germany, joined Aug 2004, 2181 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10246 times:

Hmm, sounds like racism to me!


Atheists - Winning since 33 A.D.
User currently offlineDiamondFlyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1535 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10222 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 3):
So, how do you go about correcting the blatant discrimination and injusticies of the past? Just let it slide?

Let me phrase it this way. Do you want to fly in an airplane that the people flying it were hired based on their skill and knowledge in order to run a safe operation, or do you want to fly in an airplane where the most important decision is the color of the skin of the applicant.

The injustices of the past are exactly that, of the past.

-DiamondFlyer


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6464 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10202 times:

Looks like South Africa is trying to become politically correct by using affirmative action.

User currently offlinekl911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5127 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10194 times:

Politically correct is the worst form of discrimination. Awfull news this.

User currently offlineSA7700 From South Africa, joined Dec 2003, 3431 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10174 times:
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HEAD MODERATOR

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 6):
affirmative action.

It has been in place for at least the past 16 years. Thus the "brain drain" from the country.


SA7700



When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12424 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10151 times:

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 5):
Do you want to fly in an airplane that the people flying it were hired based on their skill and knowledge in order to run a safe operation, or do you want to fly in an airplane where the most important decision is the color of the skin of the applicant.

Is that your way of saying pre-apartheid SAA was an unsafe airline because the pilots were selected for their whiteness?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinesbworcs From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2005, 842 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10093 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 3):
So, how do you go about correcting the blatant discrimination and injusticies of the past? Just let it slide?

Two wrongs never make a right. Things happened in the past that were wrong, hateful and bigoted - that does not justify doing the same in reverse now.

Do you think it is a correct course of action then?



The best way forwards is upwards!
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7396 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10021 times:

So......is this reverse-apartheid?

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 8):
It has been in place for at least the past 16 years. Thus the "brain drain" from the country.

I hate to sound racist but that's usually what happens when A.A. is in place. But at the same time, a lot of people are discriminated when it comes to race. Here in the states it should be met with lawsuits but that doesn't usually happen.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19510 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9942 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 3):
So, how do you go about correcting the blatant discrimination and injusticies of the past? Just let it slide?

You don't correct it with more blatant discrimination and injustice.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8472 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9739 times:

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 3):
So, how do you go about correcting the blatant discrimination and injusticies of the past? Just let it slide?

A moral victory is won by exercising high morality. Just continuing the same old problem is not a "correction" of any kind.


User currently offlinewarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9362 times:

i believe it is still possible for SA express and SA airlink only,


747SP
User currently offlineKaiTak747 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2012, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8953 times:

Race should not be considered in an application for a place on a pilot cadet scheme - or for anything else for that matter. Applicants should be chosen on merit alone. This is discrimination by SA.

User currently offlinethrufru From Marshall Islands, joined Feb 2009, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8881 times:

I've got a news flash for you guys. Selective hiring based on criteria other than skills and experience is alive and well in the United States and elsewhere. We've just become much more careful about disguising it.

User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6144 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8186 times:

Quoting thrufru (Reply 16):
I've got a news flash for you guys. Selective hiring based on criteria other than skills and experience is alive and well in the United States and elsewhere. We've just become much more careful about disguising it.

Unfortunately that happens too many times.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineBoxBoy From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 50 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 days ago) and read 7575 times:

A company in my past had applications with no names, race, religion, or gender. You were identified only by social security number and credentials. It wasn't until the face to face that flight ops personnel learned any personal info. I think that they had it right.

User currently offlinemy235 From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (2 years 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7327 times:

It's sort of a reverse discrimination in an odd way. I personally would feel like a dog being thrown a bone. Awful.

User currently offlinetechnobie From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (2 years 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7264 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 13):
A moral victory is won by exercising high morality. Just continuing the same old problem is not a "correction" of any kind.

I agree with you. Here is a question though. What is morality, much less high morality? The problem today is that no one wants to talk about "what morality is" because they associate it with religion and we can't have that! But the fact of the matter is, it plays a huge role in how our society functions. In today's society, everyone is right, no one is wrong and you can't bring "morality" into the discussion because it might offend someone.

All that to say (and what most others are saying here), the focus should be on the qualifications of a person and their ability to perform their job to the highest standards, regardless of race or color or whatever....AND especially regardless of whatever horrible things have been done in the past. Time to move forward...


User currently offlineweebie From Australia, joined Dec 2009, 202 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (2 years 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7170 times:

Still yet to see a black SAA pilot on the PER-JHB route.

User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3967 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (2 years 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6818 times:
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There are better, less offensive ways to address past discrimination that have the extra advantage of not having to select a less qualified candidate over another candidate who may not have the preferred pedigree.

For instance, has SAA made sufficient efforts to make sure that every black teenager who is considering his or her future after school is even aware that the cadet program does exist? A better awareness of the program among the black community would probably increase the number of applicants many fold, and SAA may not have to change its requirements just to accept more qualified black candidates, or turn away white candidates.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 5):
Do you want to fly in an airplane that the people flying it were hired based on their skill and knowledge in order to run a safe operation

There is, so far, no evidence that the candidates that are being accepted in the cadet program have lower skills than the individuals who are apparently not even been allowed to apply. Nowhere in this story does it say that SAA has lowered its standards, all it says is that white employees are prevented from applying to begin with.

Perhaps all that is happening is that SAA may need more time to find enough qualified candidates.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineboeing773W From South Africa, joined Mar 2012, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (2 years 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5633 times:

It seems like SAA lifted the ban on white cadets late last week within hours of a union launching legal action against them on behalf of three young white applicants.

"In order to avert Solidarity’s court action, SAA informed the trade union in writing that the closing date for applications for the cadet programme was postponed to the end of August, and that the application form on its website was adapted, giving white men also the opportunity to apply."

Source link: http://stopkwotas.co.za/saa-petition/


User currently offlineKalla From South Africa, joined Jan 2009, 5 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (2 years 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5192 times:

Well, you can ask the SAA man that proposed this racist programme what he thougt he was doing. His contact details were given on a South African Aviation forum as :

Kabelo Ledwaba

Communications Manager (External)

Email: kabeloledwaba@flysaa.com

Mobile: 27 (0)83 414 4720

Tel: 27 (0)11 978 2760


As indicated on the same forum, one should ask Star Alliance what they plan to do about this errant member here: http://www.staralliance.com/en/contacts/


25 B777LRF : So they've closed one hole, but opened another by allowing only men to apply?
26 flybyguy : I'm actually a little surprised that there have been 23 replies thus far in this thread and no one has addressed your question. I will make an attemp
27 DarkSnowyNight : Compensate living individuals effected by past unjust policies, where possible. Punishing folks who likely had nothing to do with the original proble
28 boeing773W : I agree with a lot of what you are saying but South Africa's poverty problems can now no longer be blamed on apartheid alone. The new government has
29 SA7700 : This thread will be moved to the non-aviation forum as it now contains political content, which is not allowed in the civil aviation forum. Thanks for
30 PHX787 : Why does the government feel the need to do this? Is this post-apartheid scare or pressure from the UN or something? It feels like the country would
31 flyerboy1990 : I really find South Africa to be fascinating. I'm black and live in the US. Of course, I grew up learning about the Civil Rights movement and all that
32 Flighty : It takes a long time to change families, much less a culture. 18 years is a blink of an eye. 180 years isn't even very long, culturally. My family pr
33 NorthstarBoy : All I can say is "Welcome to Africa." When it comes to reverse-racism in Africa, nothing surprises me any more. I vividly remember an experience at Ba
34 MD-90 : Does it sound to anyone else like they also want a higher proportion of women cadets?
35 PHX787 : Precisely, it's heavily looked down upon in the USA. And I believe it's still is an issue in S.A.. I recall from the Vuvuzela cup 2010 frequent menti
36 bjorn14 : I wonder if flight insurance in South Africa will go up? AA is how America got a President named Obama.
37 yyz717 : Boycott SAA until this racist policy is reversed. Problem solved.
38 PHX787 : Good luck convincing people that. I did a search and it took me a while to find a relevant article on this. Goes to show how little this is being cov
39 flybyguy : Lol... you must love getting rises out of people with such unsubstantiated, racist comments. I'm ignorant of the domestic matters of your country, bu
40 Aesma : There could be another problem, in that currently most pilots are white. Since I'm sure pilots are involved in hiring new pilots, racism could be a f
41 DiamondFlyer : Even quotas are still discriminatory. Why the color of one's skin should play into hiring is beyond me. -DiamondFlyer
42 Aesma : Because the country has a history you can't deny. It's in the interest of everyone including the whites to help level the playing field.
43 bwest : I remember seeing advertising for a guide featuring only "100% black owned businesses" when driving through Jo'burg. I was wondering what reactions a
44 SmittyOne : Nice to see your true colors finally come out, Bjorn - a wonderful combination of racial as well as religious intolerance. Now all of the asinine anti
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