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Shooting Of The Week: Texas Walmart  
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8044 posts, RR: 8
Posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2746 times:

It's Sunday, the start of the week for many so I guess we can call this one the (probably) shooting for this week.

Might just be the first shooting for the week:

Quote:

At least four people were shot Sunday in a Walmart parking lot in central Texas, police said.

A suspect was arrested at the scene, they said. The shooting took place very early in the morning in Cedar Park, which is just north of Austin.

Early indications were that a group of people met in the parking lot to fight and that at least one person then opened fire, police said.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/19/us/tex...mart-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Actually this one might be considered a Shoot Out as gun owners were simply shooting at each other.  Wow!

44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12090 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 2609 times:

What is sad for me is that this news doesn't even faze me anymore.


You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5961 posts, RR: 27
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2580 times:
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The article says that they "met in the parking lot"... Sounds like a drug deal gone bad to me. Since the article mentions that no employees or customers were hurt that makes the drug deal thing even more plausible because whoever these people were they were not customers, so why where they there?


My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5961 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2562 times:
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Quoting cmf (Reply 3):
Did a google search for accidental shooting and got following US related shootings for the last week or so

what does that have to do with a shootout in a parking lot. If four people were shooting at each other it wasn't an accident and if it really was four people I doubt it was "self defence". Call me cynical, but after living in the Detroit area for so long I have come to find out that four people with guns shooting at each other in a parking lot usually means drugs.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 4):
Took about 1 minute.

Every issue of the American Rifleman has a page filled with stories (and a source to back them up) about self defence shooting.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7344 posts, RR: 32
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2560 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 2):
so why where they there?

It was 4:30 in the morning - and

Quote:
Police said a crowd of teenagers met in the middle of the parking lot at the store near Highway 183 and FM 1431 ready to finish a fight they started earlier.

"This stemmed from a party that occurred possibly somewhere either in Williamson County or Leander, in which there was alcohol consumed at that party," said Cedar Park Police Chief Henry Fluck.

Fluck said 18-year-old Soloman Onwukaife pulled out a handgun, shooting the four unidentified victims. The chief said quick action by a police officer led to Onwukaife's arrest.

From WFAA in Dallas - http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Five-...Austin-area-Walmart-166696936.html

Walmart parking lots are apparently the 'meeting place' for teens and young people today in many parts of the US. Everyone knows where Walmart is - so "Let's meet at the Walmart parking lot" seems to be common.

At least according to teenagers in my neighborhood.


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2553 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 4):

Source?


User currently offlineGEEZER From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2548 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 2):
The article says that they "met in the parking lot"... Sounds like a drug deal gone bad to me. Since the article mentions that no employees or customers were hurt that makes the drug deal thing even more plausible because whoever these people were they were not customers, so why where they there?

First of all.........I haven't read about this incident; and I probably won't, even if I notice it; I visit two different Wal Mart Super Stores on a regular basis, and so far I have yet to see any crimes committed in either one of them; maybe later ?

I'm not clear on what the OP was attempting to point out here..........but it appears that each incident involved a gun; Let's see.........in a population of several hundred million people, I'm not really surprised that there were that many gun-related incidents in that time frame ( a day, a week, a month, ? )

In order to have a "gun-related incident", you need to have at least two things; A. at least one gun B. at least one criminal, or one fool, one idiot, one careless "inhabitant" who lacks any training related to fire arms C. there are probably other things that I can't think of right now; So............

Obviously we have all of these things in our present population of several hundred million people. I think that probably explains the afore-mentioned incidents.

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5961 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2523 times:
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Quoting GEEZER (Reply 8):
I visit two different Wal Mart Super Stores on a regular basis, and so far I have yet to see any crimes committed in either one of them; maybe later ?

Crimes are committed at Wal-Mart every day. Probably thousands of crimes are committed daily at them nation wide. A friend of my dad's is director of security for the Schnuck's super market chain (Missouri, Indiana, and Illinois) and he deals with everything from drug dealing in the parking lot, to welfare fraud, to simple shoplifting. I was hanging out with the guy on Friday and again last night and stories he tells are amazing. The funny thing is I shopped at Schnuck's when I lived in Missouri and my parents still do and we never see crimes occurring either, but they are there.

A policeman shot a shoplfter in the parking lot of a Walmart by my work a couple of months ago because the guy shot at him first, a student of mine witnessed the shooting while he was collecting carts in the lot.

A few years ago a security guard was run down and then smashed him against a concrete light pole base at a K-Mart in Pontiac, Michigan. The shoplifter stole a bunch of CDs to feed his heroin habit. Crazy stuff happens all the time.

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 6):

Walmart parking lots are apparently the 'meeting place' for teens and young people today in many parts of the US. Everyone knows where Walmart is - so "Let's meet at the Walmart parking lot" seems to be common.

At least according to teenagers in my neighborhood

According to the teens I talk and and I talk to a lot in my line of work, parking lots are a great place to deal and buy drugs. Lots of cars come and go and nobody notices a car that pulls in and then pulls out. If you deal drugs at your house a lot of people will notice that cars pull in and then leave after a very short period of time, which is a dead giveaway for drug dealing. I had that crap going on next to me for a while, but most of the bums didn't have enough money for a car. They would pop by the neighbors house for about two minutes then leave. None of them were people I even saw on my block before and few of them I ever saw around the neighborhood. After the neighbors got evicted all those junkies went away and the street became peaceful again.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineSuperfly From Thailand, joined May 2000, 39478 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2505 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Thread starter):
It's Sunday, the start of the week for many so I guess we can call this one the (probably) shooting for this week.



Why do weekly updates when you can start daily threads about the daily shootings in the community that Obama organized in Chicago.
Just saying.



Bring back the Concorde
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2499 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 5):
what does that have to do with a shootout in a parking lot

thread title: Shooting Of The Week

I wish that really was the shooting of the week.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 5):
Every issue of the American Rifleman has a page filled

So one is a generic source for all news and the other is actively searching for one specific type. Do they have a page for accidents and unlawful use too?

Quoting GEEZER (Reply 8):
In order to have a "gun-related incident", you need to have at least two things; A. at least one gun B. at least one criminal, or one fool, one idiot, one careless "inhabitant" who lacks any training related to fire arms C

You think the police had not received training?


User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5092 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2498 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 7):
Source?

What do you mean "source?" Those are all independently sourced. They are actual news stories from local news media.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
User currently offlineMD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13792 posts, RR: 63
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2490 times:

I´ll bet on regular criminals, most likely involved in drugs, or a turf war.
These people are those whom you would like to get least access to guns, but also the most unlikely to be ever disarmed, because they wouldn´t care about gun bans.
Take the UK as an example: Handguns in private hands have been banned since the Dunblane massacre. But since then handguns became something like a status symbol among gangsters and criminals. Since then gun crime involving those banned handguns has skyrocketed, even though they are completely illegal and those caught with them are facing stiff sentences.
Even teenage gangsters use handguns in the UK nowadays.
Similarly in Germany military version (full auto) AK-47s have become a status symbol among pimps and other criminals, where the status symbol before was a butterfly knife and a pitbull dog. Fully automatic weapons have always been banned in Germany for private citizens (there exists a very rarely given exception for certain collectors, but they have to prove a scientific-historical research interest and have many restrictions placed on them, e.g. an ordinary gun safe isn´t enough, they´ll need a fortified basement room like a bank vault with an alarm system connected to the nearest police station to store their guns).
But illegal guns are readily smuggled in e.g. from the Balkans, where government armouries were looted during the unrests and civil wars of the 1990s or from former East German communist party armouries (the East German communists had armouries in about any government or party building. When the wall fell the guards of the former internal intelligence service STASI abandoned their posts and left the armouries, which also contained RPGs and grenades, unguarded for days).
Then there still exist weapons caches from WW2. There are probably hundreds of MG42 machine guns and MP40 submachine guns around, but most (illegal) owners will keep them hidden "just in case they´ll need it some day" and never use them. I knoew a guy in the Netherlands, who bought a house in Oosterbek (site of the final battle between the British paratroopers and the German troops after the failed attempt to capture the bridges over the lower Rhine in 1944). While renovating the house he found a British Sten Mk 5 submachine gun hidden in the attic. He cleaned it up and hid it again, because, if he would have given it to the police, they would just have cut up this item of historical significance.

Jan


User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5961 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2455 times:
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Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
When the wall fell the guards of the former internal intelligence service STASI abandoned their posts and left the armouries, which also contained RPGs and grenades, unguarded for days).

I have seen guns in Germany that came from that source.

Quoting cmf (Reply 11):
Do they have a page for accidents and unlawful use too?

They don't need to; the newspaper and TV does that job.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
There are probably hundreds of MG42 machine guns and MP40 submachine guns around, but most (illegal) owners will keep them hidden "just in case they´ll need it some day"

If you keep them greased up they are good for a long time, maybe forever. I own several captured WWII German guns that came out of Russia. The weapons were greased up and after a good cleaning worked perfectly. Ammo lasts a long time too. I scored this stuff from 1938 and 1939 and it all shoots. I also have several vacuum sealed cans from 1944 as well and it all shoots perfect. I would bet there are all kinds of WWII handguns tucked away in houses all around Germany. I know there probably plenty of them from the DDR too.

This is 8x56mm



http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb309/NWA747/NAZI8X56mm-3-1.jpg

I have some of this American stuff from the war too. This type of ammo is illegal to make and sell to the general public now, but because this stuff was made before the ban, it is legal to own, shoot and sell, this stuff was made in 1943.

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb309/NWA747/AP30-06-1.jpg

I don't know what I'll do with it, but it nice to have.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2418 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 12):
What do you mean "source?" Those are all independently sourced. They are actual news stories from local news media.

Exactly what I asked. What did you use to find them. falstaff understood it.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 14):
They don't need to; the newspaper and TV does that job.

So they are about the use of guns but do not want to present a balanced picture.


User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5092 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2405 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 15):
Exactly what I asked. What did you use to find them. falstaff understood it.

My apologies; I thought when you wrote "source" somehow you did not understand that these links directed the user to the news website reporting the news. You wanted which aggregator I used to collect my links.

One was local, the rest I found on the FB page for NRA News. Does that make them any less accurate?

If you'd like, I can start a thread for every defensive use of a firearm article I come across and we can discuss it ad-nauseum.

Quoting cmf (Reply 15):
So they are about the use of guns but do not want to present a balanced picture.

As balanced as a Google search or a Yahoo search, don't you think? All the incidents I posted occured in August, yet a Search on Google and Yahoo didn't readily turn them up. Is that balanced?

Wow, I don't think I've ever made so many grammatical errors. Four edits!!!

[Edited 2012-08-20 12:19:23]

[Edited 2012-08-20 12:20:05]

[Edited 2012-08-20 12:21:54]

[Edited 2012-08-20 12:23:19]


When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2353 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
As balanced as a Google search or a Yahoo search, don't you think? All the incidents I posted occured in August, yet a Search on Google and Yahoo didn't readily turn them up. Is that balanced?

No I do not think it is as balanced.

I doubt google treat those links any different than the links I provided. I'm sure the difference is in the keywords used. Something I stated openly. Unlike you who made a claim it took a minute where it was down to having a source providing exactly the type of links you wanted.

I have not been able to identify any keywords that find several of your links. Expanding the number of keywords to find several of them I'm sure I would find more hits too.

I did notice one thing about your links. The areas where they took place are not known to be low on gun ownership. Seems that isn't a deterrent.

The links I provided on the other hand makes it clear that there are a lot of people who have guns and have not even a basic idea how to handle them. Plenty of kids involved. Even a police officer who is supposed to have been trained well. I really do not understand why the pro gun side refuse to deal with this far too common problem.


User currently onlinefr8mech From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 5092 posts, RR: 12
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2330 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 17):
I really do not understand why the pro gun side refuse to deal with this far too common problem.

You are incorrect. We preach gun safety. Ever been to a range when a class is going on? Ever been to a range where someone makes a mistake?

Ever hear of Eddie Eagle? It's my opinion, and I'm sure the NRA's and any other responisble gunowner's opinion, that this program or one like it be taught in schools. The reason: because firearms are prevalent in our society and we need to teach the safe, responsible handling of said firearms. Instead, the firearms and the owners of firearms are demonized in schools, in the media, and from the podium.

Given the current situation where there are estimated to be over 300,000,000 non-military firearms in the US, don't you think it would be wise for states, and yes, the federal government, to sponsor or at least, advocate for more gun safety training?

But, they don't. And that, among other reasons, is why we have people getting hurt because of negligence and stupidity around firearms.



When seconds count...the police are minutes away. Never leave your cave without your club.
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5961 posts, RR: 27
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2315 times:
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Quoting fr8mech (Reply 16):
he rest I found on the FB page for NRA News.

I have not looked at the NRA's FB page, but I know their stories of armed citizens in their magazines have the source listed at the bottom and they are usually from reputable newspapers, but sometimes from TV stations.



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2308 times:

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
I´ll bet on regular criminals, most likely involved in drugs, or a turf war.

   This is what I would agree with. This is not a mass shooting as the OP thinks it is.

I will echo the same crap I have been spewing in these kinds of gun threads in the past: If you do not know how to handle a gun nor be responsible with guns, you have ZERO business possessing a gun nor owning one. Be a responsible gun owner, don't do anything stupid or be stupid.

But then again, what I just said usually falls on deaf ears on these boards......   



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 18):
You are incorrect. We preach gun safety.

certain parts of it, absolutely. Also glorify having guns for self defense.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 18):
Ever been to a range when a class is going on?

Many times. Few times in this country. Was very disappointed in the trigger happiness.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 18):
Ever been to a range where someone makes a mistake?

Unfortunately I have seen one guy getting shot in the head because there was no respect for the guns.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 18):
to sponsor or at least, advocate for more gun safety training

Have asked for that repeatedly.

Quoting fr8mech (Reply 18):
and that, among other reasons, is why we have people getting hurt because of negligence and stupidity around firearms.

A major reason is that the pro gun organisations resist every kind of requirement. It is incredible that someone who has never touched a gun is allowed to carry it in the public with as little as a two hour class.


User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2270 times:

Question for you Pro Gun Owners-
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/U...-Canada-after-gun-find-3801161.php
Informed and careful gun owner or ill-informed idiot who thinks he can pack one anywhere ?
I know our laws up here are a little draconian but I don't think he should have to wait 5 months for a court date.

WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8868 posts, RR: 40
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2257 times:

Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 22):
Informed and careful gun owner or ill-informed idiot who thinks he can pack one anywhere ?

I don't know which, but this is definitely dumb:

"It's just really hard to prove I didn't have criminal intent to sell guns up here,"

. . . that implies the Canadian government is trying to switch the burden of proof onto the defendant! That's unfair, a mistake in logic and is trapping him in Canada.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5428 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2243 times:

Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):


Why do weekly updates when you can start daily threads about the daily shootings in the community that Obama organized in Chicago.
Just saying.

Epic post is epic.

Quoting cmf (Reply 11):
Do they have a page for accidents and unlawful use too?

Does the Brady Campaign website has a page for lawful gun use and self-defense shootings?

Quoting WrenchBender (Reply 22):
Informed and careful gun owner or ill-informed idiot who thinks he can pack one anywhere ?

He's an idiot. First, he failed to declare the gun (which person should know is a big no-no). Second, he says this:

Quote:
Kraig Jacobson said he met other Americans being held in Canadian jail on similar gun charges — people he said were on vacation and unaware of the country's handgun prohibitions.

Which I think we both know is not true (the people he talked to either really are smuggling guns, or lied to the customs officer like he did).

Also, he's assuming that he has to prove that he wasn't going to sell the gun, which is completely false.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
25 cmf : Do you suggest it is an equal source to google?
26 AirframeAS : The CCW classes you take (where you want to be certified in a particular state) perfectly outlines in the course where you can and cannot CCW, when y
27 Maverick623 : Who said anything about Google?
28 cmf : I did. In my first post. Where I listed the links. The start of this part of the discussion.
29 fr8mech : I'd call him an idiot. I don't cross state lines without checking to make sure the law hasn't changed (though they've been changing for the better).
30 GEEZER : cmf........ Having read a few hundred of your replies, I'm totally convinced that, A. That you don't like guns B. That you don't think it's a "good i
31 Post contains images AirframeAS : That is EXACTLY what NRA encourages its members and all gun owners to do. It is not cmf only doing it, it is a lot of posters on this board doing it
32 falstaff : Where was that? I've been shoot at ranges since I was 8 and never even heard of anything like that happening. I'm not saying it couldn't, just saying
33 Max Q : Very well said Cmf
34 cmf : I have no problems with guns. I have been shooting at ranges since early in my life. At our old summer house we had a skeet range. It is not the guns
35 GEEZER : cmf; Thanks for that explanation; now I can see where you got your present attitude about guns. Allow me to relate a few of my personal experiences t
36 AirframeAS : AFAIK, Washington State does not require range time. And I have a CCW from that State, which is not recognized here in Colorado. I am still waiting f
37 cmf : You're making a lot of poor assumptions but you are right in that he was the cause. I have no problems with guns. I shoot a lot before the army and I
38 Maverick623 : The only time I can remember hearing about something like that at a civilian range is when a guy committed suicide a couple of years ago at a gun ran
39 AirframeAS : That may be required for NEW applicants after the new law takes effect. Those who are already CCW holders would be exempt from the requirement, thus
40 cmf : I would not count suicides, they are tragic but they are not accidents. Wish it was years ago since the last but I know of one just last month. Again
41 fr8mech : I have, and usually the actions are policed by the other participants in the lanes. Shooting is a rather unforgiving activity and the participants te
42 falstaff : Back in '98 I had a guy threaten to kick my ass and rob me at a car wash. I was on my way to the shooting range so I had some guns in my trunk (This
43 Maverick623 : If their buddy died, they should have been charged with Felony Murder.
44 falstaff : They were not charged with that.
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