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Downs Syndrom Girl Faces Death For Blasphemy  
User currently offlinevictrola From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 499 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4925 times:

Why do things like this happen? This disgusts me.


http://now.msn.com/girl-with-down-sy...arrested-for-blasphemy-in-pakistan

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePs762 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2012, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4783 times:

Hi!

It is sad to see definitely. Speaking as a Christian also from the Middle East (Iraq) I think the main reason for the rise of Islamic fundametalism and persecution is more because of power. I believe for many generations christians in these regions identified a lot more with the powerful mostly Christian Western countries and superpowers and enjoyed an elevated position in society with better jobs, more money and power etc. Now there is a lot of hate directed at them for this and they suffer a lot. Of course it is not everyone but even a minority of extremists can make things very hard and can wield a lot of power. That's how I understand it works from stories from my relatives and stuff and how I feel. I may be talking garbage though!

Thanks,

Pierre


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26845 posts, RR: 58
Reply 2, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4739 times:

Quoting Ps762 (Reply 2):
It is sad to see definitely. Speaking as a Christian also from the Middle East (Iraq)

Its very sad to see the way the Christians are being wiped out in the Middle East . Iraq/Egypt/Lebanon etc... each to a different extent.

As for this news item what a wonderful world that we live in .  


User currently offlineautothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1589 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4726 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
Its very sad to see the way the Christians are being wiped out in the Middle East . Iraq/Egypt/Lebanon etc...

It show's me how these country's are progressing backwards. They are in what we were 300 years ago in the dark ages.

It's even more tragically as the old arabs(old Koran) were a very advanced and honorable culture.

Religion is a enormusly powerful tool to control the masses and lead them to the direction desired.



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlinePs762 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2012, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4719 times:

Hi!

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
Its very sad to see the way the Christians are being wiped out in the Middle East . Iraq/Egypt/Lebanon etc... each to a different extent.

Yes I know many muslims and arabs from many countries like Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan etc. through my aunt and other relatives. They are all without exception respectful, hard-working, intelligent, honorable men and women. But they are mostly from the older generation. A good friend of my aunt is the brother of Omar Suleiman, the right hand man of Mubarak in Egypt who's funeral was recently. He is an accountant and a very nice man, tough and a shrewd businessman but with honor. But this new generation is becoming more and more different. Even in a place like the UAE embassy where my aunt used to work for 30 years some of the new staff are not tolerant of people of different religions and races and have a hard time working with them and ultimately get them fired. The moderate times are becoming a thing of the past.

It's the little that I've seen anyway,

Pierre


User currently offlineblrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1412 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4676 times:

Quoting Ps762 (Reply 2):
I believe for many generations christians in these regions identified a lot more with the powerful mostly Christian Western countries and superpowers and enjoyed an elevated position in society with better jobs, more money and power etc. Now there is a lot of hate directed at them for this and they suffer a lot. Of course it is not everyone but even a minority of extremists can make things very hard and can wield a lot of power. That's how I understand it works from stories from my relatives and stuff and how I feel. I may be talking garbage though!

Nope, I call BS on this argument. Pakistan was formed as an islamic country based on religion. Many non-muslims migrated over to India. So there is no probable cause of anger against christians or any non-muslims.

They treat all hindus, christians, sikhs, ahmedis(sect of islam, whom other mainstream sects don't consider islamic) etc the same. It is very common to kidnap underage hindus/christian girls, and rape them/marry them, and then claim that they converted to islam voluntarily and married muslims. The Blasphemy law is used to settle private scores. Anyone can claim that a non-muslim violated the law, and onus of proving innocence is on the accused. A lynch mob will soon form to destroy the non-muslims' home/property/women. If the blasphemy accused are convicted and sentenced to prision, there is a very good chance that a religious prisioner will maim/kill the blasphemy accused!

It is no wonder that non-muslims population which was around 12-15% at time of creation of pakistan is now less than 5%.


User currently offlinePs762 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2012, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4632 times:

Hi!

Quoting blrsea (Reply 8):
Nope, I call BS on this argument. Pakistan was formed as an islamic country based on religion. Many non-muslims migrated over to India. So there is no probable cause of anger against christians or any non-muslims.

They treat all hindus, christians, sikhs, ahmedis(sect of islam, whom other mainstream sects don't consider islamic) etc the same. It is very common to kidnap underage hindus/christian girls, and rape them/marry them, and then claim that they converted to islam voluntarily and married muslims. The Blasphemy law is used to settle private scores. Anyone can claim that a non-muslim violated the law, and onus of proving innocence is on the accused. A lynch mob will soon form to destroy the non-muslims' home/property/women. If the blasphemy accused are convicted and sentenced to prision, there is a very good chance that a religious prisioner will maim/kill the blasphemy accused!

It is no wonder that non-muslims population which was around 12-15% at time of creation of pakistan is now less than 5%.

I can see your point. I'm not sure how much of that happens in the middle east but I imagine it does sometimes. Sometimes Christian girls in the middle east marry Muslim men by choice and that is fine and their choice. Sometimes Muslim girls marry Christian guys and they should be free to do so too if they both wish. I think the problem in Iraq is there is too little national unity. Everyone is trying to carve out their little piece and fighting each other. The Kurds, the Muslim fundamentalists, the Christians, the Sunnis the Shiaa. They are used to being ruled over and when all under a foreign ruler or dictator the people unite much more. Now they are free they don't know what to do. Even though they suffered and were pretty much kicked out my parents and relatives still feel proud to be Iraqi and me too (even though I have never been there). They tell me always that the Iraqis are the nicest people and can't believe when they see stuff on TV and say it must be from outside the country. I would love to go back to Iraq at least for a visit but it is extremely unlikely in the near future. It is my real home. But there is so little national unity and peace. The only thing that brings people together is the Iraqi football team and the singer Kadim Saher! It is sad. I don't really know much about the problems between muslims and hindus and other non-muslims in Pakistan and India but it would be interesting to learn more. What is good in India is that even though there are so many different kinds of Indians from different regions with different languages and stuff they have a national identity and have united. I guess we will have to see what happens in the Middle East but things don't look good at the moment and are only getting worse.

Many thanks.

Pierre


User currently offlineSmittyOne From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4559 times:

Quoting victrola (Thread starter):
Why do things like this happen? This disgusts me.


http://now.msn.com/girl-with-down-sy...istan

I guess it wouldn't help the girl much to ask the mob why exactly their "all-powerful supreme being" would need protection from assault by an 11 year old in the first place.

They are more mentally retarded than she is, at the hands of their own irrational beliefs. Congratulations!


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4554 times:

This is pathetic hope she gets justice, there are alot of mischief makers who try to ignite trouble amongst muslims and non-muslims, and of late they have even started pitting muslims against one another.

Quoting blrsea (Reply 8):
It is no wonder that non-muslims population which was around 12-15% at time of creation of pakistan is now less than 5%.

Not surprising, given the opportunity even the muslims would leave here for greener pastures.


User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3416 posts, RR: 17
Reply 9, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4383 times:
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Quoting victrola (Thread starter):
Why do things like this happen? This disgusts me.

It not only disguts me it make me so angry. The only good thing i heard is that the Pakistani president took charge of the case, those those retarded still living in the 5th century religious judges are not in control of the fate of that poor girl anymore.



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineqantas077 From Australia, joined Jan 2004, 5850 posts, RR: 40
Reply 10, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4351 times:

Quoting victrola (Thread starter):
Why do things like this happen? This disgusts me.

seriously, do you think they are going to convict and execute this child? This story has been aired down in Australia for a few days now and what it comes down to is the fact that mobs were threatening Christians and the police decided to take her in for the safety of herself and others.

originally the police wanted nothing to do with this.



a true friend is someone who sees the pain in your eyes, while everyone else believes the smile on your face.
User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3622 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4337 times:

Quoting qantas077 (Reply 34):
seriously, do you think they are going to convict and execute this child?

The Guardian article I was reading today was painting a very bad picture of the forced hardships that the Christian populations endure in Pakistan. It also talked about how this act could start a chain of violence against the whole Christian community in the area. From what I read, most of them have fled their neighborhood. Even if the child is not convicted, her whole community will end up suffering because of this "event" (according to the article, no real eye witnesses apart from a person that saw her holding some pages written in Arabic).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...tensions-quran-burning-allegations


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4319 times:

Muslims too have faced similar harassment and threats in pakistan after being accused of blasphemy, its not limited to non-muslim community. I see some accross the world and here are trying to paint it as an only happening to non-muslims situation.

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26845 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4279 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 38):
Muslims too have faced similar harassment and threats in pakistan after being accused of blasphemy, its not limited to non-muslim community

True but when you also see well documented reports of ''Land Grabbing'' from Christians and jobs advertised as ''Christians Only'' as they are deemed too low for Muslims it does shock many of us in the West .


User currently offlineBrouAviation From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 985 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4280 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 38):
Muslims too have faced similar harassment and threats in pakistan after being accused of blasphemy, its not limited to non-muslim community. I see some accross the world and here are trying to paint it as an only happening to non-muslims situation.

There are a few other factors that draw more attention:

- it's a kid
- it's a mentally disabled kid
- it's a mentally disabled christian kid
- it's a mentally disabled christian kid whose family and co-believers are likely to get killed if they don't run for their lives

Now let's take the christian part out of it:
- it's a mentally disabled kid who and whose family and co-believers are likely to get killed if they don't run for their lives

How is that any less barbaric? Point is, there are many western christian support organisations which are able to reach the press with this story and make it go viral, where there aren't so many when the same happens to a muslim kid. (and if there were, they maybe wouldn't give any publicity to it because the case painfully shows the flaws of islam, or what we know as the islamic world?)



Never ask somebody if he's a pilot. If he is, he will let you know soon enough!
User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3622 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4266 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 38):
Muslims too have faced similar harassment and threats in pakistan after being accused of blasphemy, its not limited to non-muslim community. I see some accross the world and here are trying to paint it as an only happening to non-muslims situation.

Of course, as also mentioned in the article:

Quote:
In 2011, Salman Taseer, the former governor of Punjab province, was gunned down by his own bodyguard after he spoke out against the case of Aasia Bibi, another Christian woman accused of blasphemy.

But I cannot get it out of my head that such "accusations" are being used to settle other differences, just because such accusations will cause a large part of the local Muslim community to riot and seek to punish the offenders themselves - no surprises there.

Quote:

"They have done this to provoke the Muslims, like they have with their noisy banging and singing from their churches," said a local mullah, who would not give his name. "We are not upset the Christians have left and we will be pleased if they don't come back."

It looks as if this event is more connected to religious antagonism than some would like to admit.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4229 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 40):
and jobs advertised as ''Christians Only'' as they are deemed too low for Muslims it does shock many of us in the West .

Thats misinterpretation on your part, Christian only jobs are because Christians are honest and hardworking, ask any one in Pakistan and they will tell you this, and Christians are not the only people enjoying this status so do Hindus and Parsis as well as Muslim sects like Bohra, Memon, Ismaili and Gujrati (immigrant community from Indian Gujrat state) all these are preferred employees, most of our maids have been Christian and were treated like part of the family, we have always preferred them over muslim maids when hiring, infact there are non-muslims in the armed forces and atleast one Christain retired as a high ranking Army man.

I hope you are also not getting the impression that Christains only work as janitors and house maids, they are doctors, pilots, air hostesses, stewards, secreteries, bank CEOs, multinational executives, succesul self employed entrepreneurs, teachers, principals in some of the leading private educational institutes, some of which are Christian owned, it all depends on the education, poor Christians share the same fate poor Muslims in Pakistan who also do not get good education or nice jobs, while better off Christians can and do make it big here.

Quoting BrouAviation (Reply 41):
How is that any less barbaric

Its not less barbaric at all, she and her family could have been muslim and in the same situation.

Quoting lewis (Reply 42):
It looks as if this event is more connected to religious antagonism than some would like to admit.

Its no secret non-Muslims are despised by fanatics and their uneducated followers, as are liberal and westernised muslims like Salman taseer and his family and Shias, why dont you also discuss what the peace loving bhuddists are doing to muslims in Myanmar.


User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3622 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4218 times:

[quote=777way,reply=43]why dont you also discuss what the peace loving bhuddists are doing to muslims in Myanmar.[/quote

I wouldn't mind reading about the situation -which I admit I have no knowledge in- and discussing it, unfortunately it has no connection to this news report.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days ago) and read 4215 times:

Quoting lewis (Reply 42):
It looks as if this event is more connected to religious antagonism than some would like to admit.

It has some connection to this comment of yours, as that is exactly whats happeining in Myanmar.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 19374 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days ago) and read 4209 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 43):
Its no secret non-Muslims are despised by fanatics and their uneducated followers, as are liberal and westernised muslims like Salman taseer and his family and Shias, why dont you also discuss what the peace loving bhuddists are doing to muslims in Myanmar.

We aren't talking about Bhuddists right now. We're talking about people using religion as a weapon. It happens everywhere. It's just that they're more successful at it in the Mid-East than they are in most of the rest of the world at this time in history.


User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3622 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days ago) and read 4197 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 45):

It has some connection to this comment of yours, as that is exactly whats happeining in Myanmar.

Which I do not condone either. As a non-religious person, I find this whole issue silly at best. Burning a book, touching a book with dirty hands and all that is just trivial to me because we are talking about a book. This would not be an issue in a country that does not embrace a specific religion but unfortunately this is not the case. The fact that such a law can be used in such a way in order to settle inter-faith issues of a community is disturbing, especially considering that anyone, at anytime, can accuse someone else without real evidence, in order to settle a religious spite that goes back centuries.

You are right about the same thing happening over and over around the world from all sides. This is why I believe my country and our neighbor were blessed by the forced population exchange. No matter how much of an extreme measure it was, it still saves us from a lot of trouble today. In places where the measure was not enforced there is still friction, they should have gone at it 100%!


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 6 days ago) and read 4190 times:

That law is considered draconian by many Muslims here as well, only the zealots support it and have vowed chaos if its ever altered let alone be dropped, thats why Salman taseer was killed as he said something about changing it, he was not asasinated for pleading the cause of the girl accused.

User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4084 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 19):

Pakistan is not Middle east if you are lumping it with that region, and yes why isnt anyone discussing What is happening in Myanmar, yet there is concern for muslims of Syria, Egypt, Libya, Iran etc.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26845 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4071 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 16):
Thats misinterpretation on your part, Christian only jobs are because Christians are honest and hardworking,

I go by reliable news reports and Pakistani friends I have of whom ALL are Muslim . Whilst they are quite defensive of their ''clan'' they admit the issues that exist. Jobs are often advertised as ''christian only'' for working in sewage and other un pleasant jobs. Can Muslims not be trusted to work in sewage plants?

The latest updates with regards the topic in hand are :

Muslims looting the homes of the Christians that had to flee the colony.

Local authorities advised the Christians that their safety cant be guranteed if they return.

So is it not the job of the Pakistani authorities to protect ethnic minorities in the country ?


User currently offlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3416 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4047 times:
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Quoting 777way (Reply 22):
yet there is concern for muslims of Syria, Egypt, Libya, Iran etc.

I am not sure i understand this.  



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
25 casinterest : If the Zealots have that much control. Many muslims is not enough.
26 777way : I dont know about Muslims not doing sewage jobs but neither do Christians from the Goan community in Pakistan, nor do any of the other non-Muslim mino
27 SOBHI51 : Welcome to the world of after 9/11. But we really should not put all the blame on them, there are people within the Muslim world giving them the reaso
28 Post contains links Quokkas : According to the Guardian: Following a history of assassination of politicians, including the Minister for Minorities who have spoken out this is a we
29 slider : That's right--they're not to blame. They're victims, right? BS. Those poor opressed Muslims who are forcing their values on everyone else, subjugatin
30 Newark727 : Why, hello there, self-fulfilling prophecy. You've clearly made up your mind, as you've already said. "Yes, this oppressive, backward way of life can
31 Post contains links TheCommodore : I tend to think its our fault somewhat. Instead of just leaving them alone to "do what they want", we are the ones trying to instill our values on th
32 Quokkas : There are major differences in countries that are nominally Muslim. Not all practice genital mutilation, a practice that predates Islam and appears t
33 SKYSERVICE_330 : Until? There already is a clash.
34 SOBHI51 : Please before you start attacking full force, try to read and understand what i wrote, otherwise the BS is coming from you.
35 Aesma : Having grown up in a country with a significant muslim population, I can attest that the large majority is fine. I can also attest they were even fine
36 slider : Well, it's not MY opinion--it's the very words of their prophet that calls muslims to jihad. Convert or be killed. Those aren't my words. True. Excep
37 cmf : Another example of how if something is repeated often enough it becomes the truth.
38 SFBdude : I don't think there would be many non Muslims living in Muslim majority countries were that the case. As a matter of fact, I don't think there would
39 slider : It's in black and white, baby.... facts are curious things. And if they denounce the words of their prophet, then he's fallible. Which craters the en
40 Newark727 : Yet somehow the Umayyad and Abbasid caliphates, i.e. the closest successors to Muhammad when he was alive, both had significant non-Muslim population
41 Post contains images mandala499 : Fact: I am a Muslim. Fact: I don't go around looking for people who want to be converts. Fact: I don't go around killing people who do not want to co
42 777way : acording to Islamic do's and dont's in marital sex, the woman has to be arroused fully and brought to orgasm, therefore this genitalia circumcision/mu
43 n229nw : I hope they can get the whole family safely out of the country, if the international pressure stays on... What are the chances of improving the legal
44 SOBHI51 : Well said.
45 Post contains links MD11Engineer : The whole case took a new twist: First the Pakistani Muslim assembly, which also contains more fundamentalist Muslims, has condemned the accusations a
46 Post contains links SOBHI51 : He should read this. http://www.cracked.com/article_18911...-probably-believe-about-islam.html
47 Post contains links MD11Engineer : New information came out during the day: The Q´ran pages were apparently planted into the girl´s rubbish bag as part of a conspiracy by the arrested
48 Dreadnought : No surprise here. Anyone want to take bets against the Imam getting a slap on the wrist or less?
49 Post contains links MD11Engineer : Actually I would be surprised. I think, because the uproar this case caused both in Pakistan and abroad (the Uleima, the assembly of Muslim community
50 777way : I have a feeling too this Imam will go free after a while, the girl and her family should be taken abroad.
51 DeltaMD90 : Sad how quick people can be to judge. She could have easily been killed over something she did do (and if she did, probably didn't know any better--d
52 bjorn14 : Only Muslims killing other Muslims It's our fault they wanted to come to the West? And when the West finally realizes that Islam is a political syste
53 Post contains links MD11Engineer : The girl has been bailed now by a judge. It is the first time in Pakistan that somebody accused of blasphemy has been released on bail. But it is also
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