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IPhone 5 Announcing 12th September/In Stores 21st?  
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9780 times:

Well its rumoured that the iPhone 5 will be announced on 12th September and will be on sale 21st September. If the numerous online reports are to be confirmed.

Does everyone think this is a reliable date frame ?

276 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWestJet747 From Canada, joined Aug 2011, 1939 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9776 times:

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Does everyone think this is a reliable date frame ?

The date of the announcement is probably reliable.

What I question is the release date. First off, it's only 9 days after the announcement? Second, from what I've heard, an October release is far more likely.



Flying refined.
User currently offlinejwhite9185 From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 1409 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9766 times:

Apparently Apple have an event planned for September. Its not out of the question that it can be announced and in stores within that timeframe.

From what I've seen round the net, its likely to be similar to the 4/4S but with a 4 inch screen.

Also a 7 inch iPad mini is due to be announced too.



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User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9759 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 1):
What I question is the release date. First off, it's only 9 days after the announcement? Second, from what I've heard, an October release is far more likely.

Apple's been doing that more and more in recent years. For example, they announced the iPad 2 on March 2, 2011 and US retail sales started on March 11, 2011. The iPad (3rd Generation) was announced on March 7, 2012 and retail sales of it in the US, the UK, Canada, Japan, France, Germany, Singapore, Hong Kong and Australia started on March 16, 2012. The iPhone 4S was announced on October 4, 2011, preorders started on October 7, 2011 and the device hit the market on October 14, 2011.

Apple doesn't announce the street date for a new device until right before it hits the market. This makes sense, as some competitors have trouble making their previous announced street dates and delay their products.


User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6678 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9748 times:
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It cant come soon enough, my trusty 3GS is on its last legs...


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User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9738 times:

Quoting WestJet747 (Reply 1):
What I question is the release date. First off, it's only 9 days after the announcement? Second, from what I've heard, an October release is far more likely.

What makes me believe it is the trend as below :

Quoting srbmod (Reply 3):
Apple's been doing that more and more in recent years. For example, they announced the iPad 2 on March 2, 2011 and US retail sales started on March 11, 2011. The iPad (3rd Generation) was announced on March 7, 2012 and retail sales of it in the US, the UK, Canada, Japan, France, Germany, Singapore, Hong Kong and Australia started on March 16, 2012. The iPhone 4S was announced on October 4, 2011, preorders started on October 7, 2011 and the device hit the market on October 14, 2011.

Im certainly hoping it will be 21st and its a Friday so makes sense. I have also a few pay days til then to save the roughly EUR600 I need . Good news is I have a taker at work for my iPhone 4S for EUR300 so not bad an upgrade. This is of course if I like it . Im really hoping that I like any new design otherwise it will kill it for me.

----

Seems this is what the new cable will look like :

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/47031/iphone-5-mini-dock-usb-cable




Verizon, the US mobile phone operator, has reportedly issued a holiday blackout from 21 September to 30 September, leading many commentators to believe the news corroborates the launch of the iPhone 5 in America.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/4699...september-verizon-holiday-blackout


[Edited 2012-08-23 12:37:50]

User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 9684 times:

From numerous sources I believe that the September 12th announcement and September 21st release are very reliable.


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User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9652 times:

Amazon just announced an announcement for September 6th.

Microsoft & Nokia have announced an announcement for September 5th.

The more we see announcements of announcements the more faith we can put in September 12th for Apple.

It's simple - the competition wants to get their announcements in before Apple announces their new products.

Quoting jwhite9185 (Reply 2):
Also a 7 inch iPad mini is due to be announced too.

Odd thing about the smaller iPad - some believe it will not be released withthe iPhobe5:

[quote}
"I’m thinking it makes more sense for Apple to hold two events. First, an iPhone event, focused solely on the new iPhone and iOS 6. Then, the iPhone ships nine days later, and there’s another wave of iPhone-focused attention as the reviews come out. Then, in the first or second week of October, Apple holds its traditional “music event”, exactly along the lines of the events at which they’ve been debuting new iPods for the last decade."
[/quote]

http://www.macrumors.com

Personally I believe new iOS 6 hardware on the 12th and OS X desk tops to follow later in the month, or early October.


User currently onlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 3016 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9596 times:

Yes, it's everything but confirmed.


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User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9574 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 7):
iPhobe5

"Siri, what's an iPhobe?" 



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1941 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9513 times:

I've been an iPhone user for years now, starting with the 3G and all the way up to the 4S now. How much I like them, I have a growing urge of wanting something new and something that excites me. If the iPhone 5 is looking almost the same, with the same lay-out of the OS, I might defect to another phone. What OS, I don't know, I'm curious about WP8... I think Apple is risking to lose its first customer base if they don't keep up. They were very innovative for years, but other companies catched up. I think Apple is now more evolving in stead of innovating, and I don't like that.

I do hope Apple sets a new high for their iPhone, as I don't think they are going to make it with just the same, just a little larger.

Cheers!   



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9496 times:

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 10):
I think Apple is risking to lose its first customer base if they don't keep up. They were very innovative for years, but other companies catched up. I think Apple is now more evolving in stead of innovating, and I don't like that.

I'm hoping for something a bit more advanced too . I agree the competition is really at their heels these days. Samsung has really leaped ahead in terms of what they offer. For me though everything I have is Apple so makes sense if possible to keep everything the same in terms of syncing etc... Im not tied to Apple though if they dont come up with the goods.


User currently offlinehomSar From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 9447 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 9):
"Siri, what's an iPhobe?

One who has an unnatural fear of Apple products.



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9287 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):

Verizon, the US mobile phone operator, has reportedly issued a holiday blackout from 21 September to 30 September, leading many commentators to believe the news corroborates the launch of the iPhone 5 in America.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/4699...september-verizon-holiday-blackout

Add AT&T to that list now:

http://techcrunch.com/2012/08/26/att...-iphones-september-21-launch-date/

Quote:
We’ve received yet another bit of evidence confirming the next iPhone’s September 21 launch. According to an AT&T sales rep, AT&T staff has been given a vacation blackout from September 21 to September 30, just like Verizon employees. Our source also mentioned that blue carrier employees are undergoing training for an “iconic release.”


User currently onlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8202 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9281 times:

Apparently the camera is a "game changer".

Quoting mt99 (Reply 4):
It cant come soon enough, my trusty 3GS is on its last legs...

Mine too. Come on come on come on...



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User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9278 times:

One of my friends showed me the new Apple maps on his iPhone. He has access to the new software since he is a registered developer. The 3D maps are cool, but otherwise it seemed like a step back compared to google maps. Also, I doubt (but really hope) that Apple will change the UI, which is one of the reasons why I havent owned an iPhone since the 3G. It is simply too plain I think and that is why I prefer both WP and Android. With WP8, MS is really stepping up!

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 9265 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 9):
"Siri, what's an iPhobe?"

An old man typing with bifocals.   

Actually I was just as bad when I started with computers 40+ years ago. Was using punchcards, which are a real bitch to debug. I could have shuffled them like a deck of cards and done better.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 14):

Apparently the camera is a "game changer".

And a quad core processor. Maybe more memory.

I believe that the iOS enhancements will be as driving a marketing force as an updated phone.

I'm looking for the iPad mini to come out in October, mainly to give the component suppliers a chance to catch up to demand.

Maybe something for the desktop Macs on the 12th. They are due.


User currently offlineQFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2084 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9241 times:

Looking forward to the new iPhone however this new trend of theirs where everything is released after being announced annoys me, in particular iOS 6. Announced in early June and still not released.

I'm crossing my fingers for a bigger screen, otherwise I'll likely have to switch from iPhones, the screen size today is pitiful and no longer suitable for any smartphone much less one of the smartest of smartphones. iCloud will be the biggest loss but I'd survive.

I also find it amusing that the fanboys were laughing their arses off at the galaxy note but with Apple rumoured to be making an iPad mini it'll be God's gift to mankind despite similar size.

Quoting LifelinerOne (Reply 10):
I do hope Apple sets a new high for their iPhone, as I don't think they are going to make it with just the same, just a little larger.

After the disappointment of the 4S there are a large number of people waiting to see what comes out. If the iPhone 5 isn't an incredible product you'll see a large number of people jump ship, particularly those who aren't plugged in to the Apple matrix. iPhones also don't carry the status they once did either to help justify the cost. Klaus will jump in and say 'buy what works for you' but plenty of people consider that in their purchases and no one wants the same thing that everyone else has when they can get a flashy colourful Lumia that doesn't shatter a few times a year.


User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 9237 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 15):

Apart from the fact they don't have street view (which many people don't know about anyway) I can't see in any way how Apple maps are a step backwards?



The amazing tale of flight.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9223 times:

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 17):
. . .iOS 6. Announced in early June and still not released.

iOS 6 was presented at the Developers Conference, which gave them time to work on integrating their products to the new OS. While we got to see the Keynote (after it was given) the reality is that there was about a week of technical sessions, with Apple engineers and systems people there to answer questions.

That conference (called WWDC) sold out within hours of tickets being put up on the internet. It was for developers and we only got a peek of what was in it.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9222 times:

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 17):
Looking forward to the new iPhone however this new trend of theirs where everything is released after being announced annoys me, in particular iOS 6. Announced in early June and still not released.

Goes to show how short people's memory can be. New operating systems (both Mac OS and iOS) have always been pre-announced for the simple reason that new OS releases are primarily new platforms for third-party developers who of course will need to know what APIs they are supposed to be using in the near future.

Hardware announcements, on the other hand, are kept on very short notice if possible (with the first iPhone that wasn't feasible due to the lengthy and public FCC authorization process).

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 17):
After the disappointment of the 4S

What "disappointment"? That it still can't cure cancer, just like all its predecessors? Right.   

I got the 4S replacing my 3GS and I'm fully satisfied with its progress, both relative to the 3GS and to the 4.

The iPhone 4 was mostly an external upgrade (new shell, Retina Display etc.) with few internal changes ("tick"), the 4S was the matching internal upgrade (massive performance increase, doubled storage etc.) without external changes ("tock").

The late 2012 model (likely not to carry the "5" designation) is again an external upgrade first and foremost (new, thinner shell again, taller display, new dock connector) but likely with no major internal changes (probably just a somewhat enhanced A5 as in the 4S, unchanged storage).

The late 2013 model will then receive an internal boost again, as usual, likely with a version of the A6 expected for the early 2013 iPad and probably again doubled storage.

With two-year contracts being the norm, this means most people will have a fully renovated model available when their contracts become due.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 17):
After the disappointment of the 4S there are a large number of people waiting to see what comes out. If the iPhone 5 isn't an incredible product you'll see a large number of people jump ship, particularly those who aren't plugged in to the Apple matrix.

Apple specializes not on externally flashy feature lists (like most of their competitors do) but on actual, real-life usability: They are designing and engineering for the overall user experience above all. And that is not something most people actually get bored with, particularly when they have experienced the difference.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 17):
iPhones also don't carry the status they once did either to help justify the cost. Klaus will jump in and say 'buy what works for you' but plenty of people consider that in their purchases and no one wants the same thing that everyone else has when they can get a flashy colourful Lumia that doesn't shatter a few times a year.

Given the relatively low user satisfaction with the competing systems and the much higher attrition rates there (intent to switch away again, combined with high intent to switch to the iPhone), remorse seems to set in relatively quickly for most people after such impulse purchases.

Maybe I'm just a boring person, but I just don't get the attraction of purely superficial UI features when they're paid for with deficiencies everywhere else, particularly regarding practical usability and longevity, but often also UI responsiveness and battery life.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 17):
that doesn't shatter a few times a year.

Huh? What are you talking about? I've not had a single Apple product "shatter" on me ever, and I've had quite a few by now and never used a case on any of them (not a scratch in any of the unprotected displays either, apart from the very first plastic iPod nano).

But maybe I'm just not the type to need super-ruggedized products wrapped in thick rubber to have them survive at all. Your mileage can obviously vary there.


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4787 posts, RR: 19
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9211 times:

So when will T Mobile have it ?



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User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9168 times:

Quoting virginblue4 (Reply 18):
Apart from the fact they don't have street view (which many people don't know about anyway) I can't see in any way how Apple maps are a step backwards?

Exactly because of that. Which I find very useful.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 9084 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 21):

So when will T Mobile have it ?

Probably as fast as ATT.


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4787 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9039 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 23):

Probably as fast as ATT.

I doubt that since they have never offered any I Phone so far.


Anyone really know ?



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User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 25, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9082 times:

I am finally going to make the switch from the old but trusty blackberry to the iPhone. Been due for an upgrade for over a year now been waiting for the 5. Once my BBm contact list dropped from 60 to 6 I should have known its time to change. 


"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 26, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8799 times:

Not sure if I believe the rumours but if true seems to be certainly different !

Now, hear this: Apple redesigns iconic white headphones for first time in six years

The iPhone 5 is expected to be unveiled next week - and rumours claim Apple has completely redesigned its iconic headphones for the first time since 2006.

www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/arti...hones-time-2006.html#ixzz25PTfM3Yr


User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2170 posts, RR: 2
Reply 27, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8813 times:

Always nice to see a new iPhone stir up the market...


So, if Apple finally jumps on the larger screen bandwagon, what about the people who've been claiming for years that the iPhone's screen is EXACTLY the right size and anything larger cannot be comfortably handled with one hand? How will they explain that one away?

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 15):
The 3D maps are cool, but otherwise it seemed like a step back compared to google maps.

Yeah, they seriously need to spend some more time on that. The map look is blunt and uninspired, and the handling is not yet as good as in Google Maps. The 3D cities are very impressive, but Google has already matched that 1:1, so that's not a USP anymore. On the whole I'm much in favour of a new maps development though, because Google Maps seriously needs some competition. Also it's nice that Apple users finally get free turn-by-turn directions, some three years after Google introduced them on Android.



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 28, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 8799 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 27):
So, if Apple finally jumps on the larger screen bandwagon, what about the people who've been claiming for years that the iPhone's screen is EXACTLY the right size and anything larger cannot be comfortably handled with one hand? How will they explain that one away?

I'll have to check it out in person to judge one-handed operation of the new model, but if the leaks turn out to be correct, they have extended the height of the active display area both down- and upwards by a few mm relative to the previous models:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/2/3286799/iphone-5-mockup-at-ifa-2012

Enough to add another row of App icons to the springboard UI (and to app folders in particular), but probably still manageable with one hand, even though it's probably approaching physical limits of easy access to the entire area. The priority clearly remains on one-handed operation, which is effectively discarded on the oversized Android models.

Additional entries in springboard app folders are pretty much the only advantage I'd see for me personally; I've not missed more display height so far (or more area in total) and I don't particularly appreciate the larger size of the new model, even with the again reduced thickness.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 29, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 8750 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 27):
How will they explain that one away?

It will be thinner.  
Quoting Klaus (Reply 28):
The priority clearly remains on one-handed operation, which is effectively discarded on the oversized Android models.

I have a friend with a bum arm so he is effectively a one handed man. His opinion was that the iPhone was the best thing out there for a one handed man, making me glad that Apple kept it that way.


User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 30, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8753 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 28):
even though it's probably approaching physical limits of easy access to the entire area.

Before the iPhone 5 rumours started to appear, you'd have said that 3,5" is the maximum display size for single hand operation. I guess as long as Apple does it, it is right no matter what they come up with  


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 31, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8747 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 30):
Before the iPhone 5 rumours started to appear, you'd have said that 3,5" is the maximum display size for single hand operation.

I have said that the current iPhone is about as large as I can comfortably operate single-handed. The new one adds only a few millimeters at the top and a few at the bottom, which may make the far corners somewhat less convenient to reach, but I'll have to check it out myself.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 30):
I guess as long as Apple does it, it is right no matter what they come up with

Have you ever considered the possibility that it may actually be beneficial if a pocket device is usable even with just one hand? I'm using the iPhone single-handedly almost all the time, often while carrying or holding something with the other. It affords additional freedom not to be forced to have both hands free before being able to use the phone.

Your mistake is that you don't even bother to deal with my actual points before switching to personal digs just by default. It is really getting tedious, and you may have noticed that I treat you with quite a bit more respect than that.


User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 32, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 8730 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 31):
I have said that the current iPhone is about as large as I can comfortably operate single-handed. The new one adds only a few millimeters at the top and a few at the bottom, which may make the far corners somewhat less convenient to reach, but I'll have to check it out myself.

Fair enough.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 31):
Have you ever considered the possibility that it may actually be beneficial if a pocket device is usable even with just one hand? I'm using the iPhone single-handedly almost all the time, often while carrying or holding something with the other. It affords additional freedom not to be forced to have both hands free before being able to use the phone.

Your mistake is that you don't even bother to deal with my actual points before switching to personal digs just by default. It is really getting tedious, and you may have noticed that I treat you with quite a bit more respect than that.

Yes I have considered that, and I agree it is beneficial. But the benefits of a larger display outweighs the benefits of single hand operation for me. But I can easily understand why people would want a smaller phone.

I will treat you with more respect in the future, but I welcome a balanced, and as far as possible objective debate where we can discuss the pros and cons of all the large IT companies and their solutions, and not try to make it sound like one company superior to all others when they are not.


User currently offlinephotopilot From Canada, joined Jul 2002, 2826 posts, RR: 18
Reply 33, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8702 times:

Ho hum..... another Apple media and hype fest. Thanks, but no thanks.

Just got my new Samsung G III and love it. Apple will have to work hard (out of the courtroom) just to catch up IMHO.


User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2170 posts, RR: 2
Reply 34, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 8696 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 29):
I have a friend with a bum arm so he is effectively a one handed man. His opinion was that the iPhone was the best thing out there for a one handed man, making me glad that Apple kept it that way.

It's not like there weren't any small Android phones, in fact some are tiny. The choice is greater while Apple offers only one (presumably optimum) solution.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 31):
The new one adds only a few millimeters at the top and a few at the bottom,

I'm not trying to bug you here, really   but isn't this is a curiously twisted way of saying "they made it longer"? Why would you differentiate between the top and the bottom   isn't that in the nature of things that are made longer? Instead of saying they added "only a few millimeters" at the top and at the bottom, you could also say they added a fair bit more than a few millimeters in the center. But that wouldn't sound quite as tiny, I guess.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 31):
Have you ever considered the possibility that it may actually be beneficial if a pocket device is usable even with just one hand? I'm using the iPhone single-handedly almost all the time, often while carrying or holding something with the other. It affords additional freedom not to be forced to have both hands free before being able to use the phone.

But this isn't about phone sizes (the virtues of which can be debated). This is about how you, who has been very vocal about the iPhone being the perfect size and other top-end phones getting too large, accomodate the fact that the iPhone is now also becoming larger, particularly since you almost never find fault with any Apple decision.

But you said that you don't appreciate the decision to make the device larger, so I'm happy with that response.



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 35, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8562 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 34):
It's not like there weren't any small Android phones,

My friend bought his first iPhone before the competitors were able to get their copies out the door.


User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4863 posts, RR: 25
Reply 36, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 8546 times:
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Quoting Rara (Reply 27):
So, if Apple finally jumps on the larger screen bandwagon, what about the people who've been claiming for years that the iPhone's screen is EXACTLY the right size and anything larger cannot be comfortably handled with one hand? How will they explain that one away?

iPhone user here. I feel the iPhone 4/4S design is great and I'd rather not see much change in physical design. It really does fit so well in the palm of one hand. I don't want to see a bigger screen or a bigger phone. That's not important to me. I'd rather see advancements internally.

I am ready for an upgrade from my iPhone 4 so I still plan on upgrading despite not necessarily wanting a larger device.



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User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 37, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8526 times:

Event announced :

Apple's September 12 invite hints at iPhone 5


Apple today sent members of the media invites to an event in San Francisco next week, where the company is expected to unveil the next version of the iPhone.

http://m.cnet.com/news/apples-septem...-invite-hints-at-iphone-5/57502622


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 38, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8520 times:

The first invitations for the official presentation have arrived:

http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/09/0...es-special-event-for-september-12/

Quote:
Apple on Tuesday sent out invites for an upcoming event happening in San Francisco on September 12, 2012. The invitation I received says the event will take place at the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts at 10:00 am.

It is widely expected that Apple will announce its next generation iPhone at the event.

 



The not-so-subtle implication is that they'll indeed go with "iPhone 5" as the new model's designation, continuing their standing practice.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 32):
Yes I have considered that, and I agree it is beneficial. But the benefits of a larger display outweighs the benefits of single hand operation for me. But I can easily understand why people would want a smaller phone.

I have only stated that the iPhone is suited well for my particular preference in this regard, not in any way that you had to share that same preference.

I can just as well acknowledge that certain other products match other preferences even if I don't happen to share those either.

Apple usually discards many alternative designs and focuses only on one specific choice, which automatically means that they can not satisfy everybody's preferences. They know that and that is still the way they keep doing things. Other manufacturers attempt to provide products for every conceivable taste at the same time, but that approach has its own challenges.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 32):
I will treat you with more respect in the future

I sincerely appreciate that.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 32):
but I welcome a balanced, and as far as possible objective debate where we can discuss the pros and cons of all the large IT companies and their solutions, and not try to make it sound like one company superior to all others when they are not.

My opinions on certain manufacturers are just that, the same as yours, and what you've claimed above has nothing to do with my actual opinion.

Neither I nor anybody else can claim any kind of absolute truth – so why not have a civilized discussion about how everyone has come to their respective opinions?

There is absolutely no point in getting aggressive or personal about it – neither the industry nor ourselves are really affected by having this or that opinion about a particular product or manufacturer.

Quoting Rara (Reply 34):
I'm not trying to bug you here, really   but isn't this is a curiously twisted way of saying "they made it longer"? Why would you differentiate between the top and the bottom   isn't that in the nature of things that are made longer? Instead of saying they added "only a few millimeters" at the top and at the bottom, you could also say they added a fair bit more than a few millimeters in the center. But that wouldn't sound quite as tiny, I guess.

I use the iPhone every day, so the ergonomical details of its design matter to me quite a bit, on top of being involved in (unrelated) hardware and software design myself.

When one-handed operation is a crucial factor, it is difficult to enlarge the display without reachability becoming a problem. Apparently they have mitigated that somewhat by reducing the height of both the "chin" and the "forehead" of the device, while stretching it by a lesser amount than they would have had to otherwise.

If you're just looking for ideological ammunition or personal digs, such details will of course not matter to you, however.

Quoting Rara (Reply 34):
But this isn't about phone sizes (the virtues of which can be debated). This is about how you, who has been very vocal about the iPhone being the perfect size and other top-end phones getting too large, accomodate the fact that the iPhone is now also becoming larger, particularly since you almost never find fault with any Apple decision.

Do you have any interest in the actual topic or are you just trying to provoke an emotional reaction?

My remarks about this particular aspect have been very consistent if you actually care to look them up.

Quoting Rara (Reply 34):
But you said that you don't appreciate the decision to make the device larger, so I'm happy with that response.

Now imagine if this topic was not a tug-of-war with its primary intent to score personal points, but an actual consideration of how well a device would actually work in real-life practical use.

I just happen to be interested in the latter.


User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8506 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):

It does indeed look like it will be called the iPhone 5. The only other thing the '5' could possibly mean is there are going to 5 products announced but I highly doubt that.

I'm going with iPhone 5 



The amazing tale of flight.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 40, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 8498 times:

Quoting virginblue4 (Reply 39):
I'm going with iPhone 5

Little point in betting against that at this point, I'd guess.   

This numbering scheme has started somewhat dubiously with the iPhone 3G which was only the second-generation model, but apparently they'll stick with bi-annual number increments for the external updates ("tick") and the same number with a suffix for the internal updates ("tock"), so that users with two-year contracts may effectively jump from one "main" generation to the numerically next one.

I personally find the internal updates more interesting, so I've gone from 3GS to 4S, then maybe the 5S(?) again...


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 41, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8491 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):
The not-so-subtle implication is that they'll indeed go with "iPhone 5"

If it's not-so-subtle, why did I need your hint and 15 seconds to find it? *magically turns blonde*  
Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
Apple specializes not on externally flashy feature lists (like most of their competitors do) but on actual, real-life usability: They are designing and engineering for the overall user experience above all. And that is not something most people actually get bored with, particularly when they have experienced the difference.

This is very true. I had a 4GLTE Android phone last year with all the latest bells and whistles. Within four months, I'd switched back to my iPhone. I gave up 4GLTE, a bigger screen, talkable Google built-in, a mini S-Video port, etc. in exchange for a phone that actually WORKED. I cannot even begin to describe how counterintuitive the Android interface seemed to me, nor how many bugs kept on popping up in third-party applications. I was rebooting my phone two or three times per day.

There are features that Apple will absolutely need to include. They will need a better camera, true 4G/LTE speed, and some power/memory upgrade. However, the Apple UI is what really makes the iPhone compete well. And this is no different than the Mac vs. PC issue from the last two decades.

I also really want to know why Apple is changing the USB port. They have to know that they are going to cheese a lot of people off, right?

[Edited 2012-09-04 10:31:44]

User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2170 posts, RR: 2
Reply 42, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8482 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):
Now imagine if this topic was not a tug-of-war with its primary intent to score personal points, but an actual consideration of how well a device would actually work in real-life practical use.

I just happen to be interested in the latter.

Sounds good, but isn't true. Like no other user here, you have personally committed yourself to one particular company, a company which you believe can do no wrong, of which you believe every product is superior, which always makes the right design decisions and so on. Whenever that company is criticised in this forum, you rush to its defense. In all these years here, I've never seen you say something remotely positive about a competitor's product. So, for you this issue isn't as objective as you claim; in fact you have quite some emotional ties to said company which become obvious in your posting behaviour.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):
Do you have any interest in the actual topic

Not really.   Again, I'm just curious in how you integrate your "Apple can do no wrong" mantra with the fact that they're now making a phone larger, which in the past you have also labelled wrong. It's just a nice contradiction and I was interested in how you resolve it. But as I said, you handled the issue quite well, so my curiosity is sated.



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 43, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8462 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 41):
If it's not-so-subtle, why did I need your hint and 15 seconds to find it? *magically turns blonde*

Neat trick! 
Thank you for validating my otherwise redundant mentioning of the not-quite-as-obvious-as-I-thought...

Quoting Rara (Reply 42):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):
Now imagine if this topic was not a tug-of-war with its primary intent to score personal points, but an actual consideration of how well a device would actually work in real-life practical use.

I just happen to be interested in the latter.

Sounds good, but isn't true. Like no other user here, you have personally committed yourself to one particular company, a company which you believe can do no wrong, of which you believe every product is superior, which always makes the right design decisions and so on.

I provide topical arguments for my (rather more differentiated) views and I do not base my argumentation on personal resentment. That was my actual point above, if you care to re-read what you've quoted yourself.

If you have any topical arguments countering mine, please state them according to the rules. If your only point is that you resent me for holding topical views which you just don't happen to share, passing personal judgment still is no substitute for actual arguments.

Quoting Rara (Reply 42):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):
Do you have any interest in the actual topic

Not really.

Then your post is pure personal flame bait and has no place in here.


User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 44, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8404 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):

I have only stated that the iPhone is suited well for my particular preference in this regard, not in any way that you had to share that same preference.

And I have only stated that there are other phones that are better suited for my particular preference in this regard. What's your point?

Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):
Apple usually discards many alternative designs and focuses only on one specific choice, which automatically means that they can not satisfy everybody's preferences.

Exactly. Just like any other manufacturer.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):
Other manufacturers attempt to provide products for every conceivable taste at the same time, but that approach has its own challenges.

No. Instead they release a series of different phones. Nothing wrong with that. That is also why Apple keeps selling older models of the iPhone to try to get more customers not willing to pay premium price for the newest iPhone. It's another way of achieving the same goal of maximizing their profits.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):
I sincerely appreciate that.

Now I just need you to do the same.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):
Neither I nor anybody else can claim any kind of absolute truth – so why not have a civilized discussion about how everyone has come to their respective opinions?

Did I suggest that you did? I said that as far as possible try to be objective. This means that of course people will always have a preference, but to get the maximum out of these types of threads, it is a good thing to be able to discuss the positive and negative things about different products and not be too one-sided to get an informative thread instead of something that seems like a hidden advertisement for a given manufacturer and/or product.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):
There is absolutely no point in getting aggressive or personal about it – neither the industry nor ourselves are really affected by having this or that opinion about a particular product or manufacturer.

Agreed.


User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2170 posts, RR: 2
Reply 45, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8399 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 43):
If you have any topical arguments countering mine, please state them according to the rules. If your only point is that you resent me for holding topical views which you just don't happen to share, passing personal judgment still is no substitute for actual arguments.

Klaus, Klaus   why would I resent you? Quite the opposite in fact. I don't know about you, but I come here for a break from work and entertainment, and little bit to put my debating skills to the test, in areas where I feel I can actually make a contribution. But as far as entertainment is concerned, the Apple battles are top notch, and they wouldn't be half as fun without you.



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 46, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8386 times:



Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 44):
And I have only stated that there are other phones that are better suited for my particular preference in this regard. What's your point?

That there is nothing wrong with that, in neither direction.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 44):
Exactly. Just like any other manufacturer.

It's pretty rare to release just one single model in a year, and only at the top end of the market at that.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 44):
Now I just need you to do the same.

I disagree with some of your opinions. I have no problem whatsoever with you as a person, and I keep the two aspects separate.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 44):
Did I suggest that you did? I said that as far as possible try to be objective. This means that of course people will always have a preference, but to get the maximum out of these types of threads, it is a good thing to be able to discuss the positive and negative things about different products and not be too one-sided to get an informative thread instead of something that seems like a hidden advertisement for a given manufacturer and/or product.

My views are quite a bit more differentiated than you claim them to be. Don't extrapolate, just read my actual posts.

I can live with you disagreeing with me, even when the gap is wide. Why do you, then, categorically demand that I absolutely have to adopt your views even where I happen to disagree with them?

Discussions are by necessity about things we disagree about.

Quoting Rara (Reply 45):
Klaus, Klaus   why would I resent you? Quite the opposite in fact. I don't know about you, but I come here for a break from work and entertainment, and little bit to put my debating skills to the test, in areas where I feel I can actually make a contribution. But as far as entertainment is concerned, the Apple battles are top notch, and they wouldn't be half as fun without you.

Then get to the topic and stop making this about me personally. That is not just rude but it also violates forum rules.

I am not your personal punching ball. If you cannot debate the issues without incessantly injecting personal judgment into it, get out of here. This has long stopped being funny and it ruins every thread it contaminates, which is why the rules ban this kind of behaviour.

I cannot tell you how mortally tired I am of this kind of BS, regardless of how entertaining you seem to find it.

[Edited 2012-09-04 13:07:33]

User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 47, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8364 times:

I'm almost at end of contract, so I'll be looking closely to see if I want to replace my current iPhone 4 with the iPhone 5. Have been thinking about a switch to Android for a while now so it's going to have to be impressive to avoid that.

I'm hoping it's not just a camera upgrade since that's the least useful feature on the phone. After the 4S I'm not too hopeful though; the iPhone seems to have stagnated somewhat recently.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 48, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8359 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 46):
It's pretty rare to release just one single model in a year, and only at the top end of the market at that.

Correct.. but easier to do that at the top of the market though, since the hardware is top notch at the time of release and therefore will be able to compete with cheaper devices for a long time. That also goes for the Galaxy series.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 46):
I can live with you disagreeing with me, even when the gap is wide. Why do you, then, categorically demand that I absolutely have to adopt your views even where I happen to disagree with them?

In my opinion, you are sometimes being too biased towards Apple (or have been) when credits are due to some of Apples competitors. I'll easily admit that Apple makes some great products even though they are not all my cup of tea, but I still like my iPad 3. However, if someone here demands other people to adopt to a certain view here, it has to be you.

[Edited 2012-09-04 13:30:05]

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 49, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8339 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 48):
In my opinion, you are sometimes being too biased towards Apple (or have been) when credits are due to some of Apples competitors.

So a civilized discussion would be impossible unless I simply caved to your opinion? Or what exactly are you proposing?

I also have to live with opinions of yours which I disagree with, sometimes vehemently, and yet I can live with them. That's the very nature of a civilized debate, and by extension, democracy.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 48):
However, if someone here demands other people to adopt to a certain view here, it has to be you.

Absolutely not!

I make my case, but it remains completely up to you whether you adopt any of my arguments, with no personal pressure attached. If you re-examine my discussion contributions you will find that I do not pursue or bully people personally for disagreeing with me,. That is simply not on.

My respect for you is completely unconditional with regard to any topical disagreements.

Could it be actual respect if it was on any such a condition?
(This is actually the main reason why I refuse to use the "respect rating" feature.)


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 50, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8323 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 49):
So a civilized discussion would be impossible unless I simply caved to your opinion? Or what exactly are you proposing?

I also have to live with opinions of yours which I disagree with, sometimes vehemently, and yet I can live with them. That's the very nature of a civilized debate, and by extension, democracy.

You're choosing to publicly state your opinion (usually unsolicited, since you generally reply to topics rather than start them) so you have to accept a little bit of scrutiny. Especially when your first reaction to any disappointment in Apple products in this thread is:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
What "disappointment"? That it still can't cure cancer, just like all its predecessors? Right.     


FWIW, I think you clearly know a lot about Apple products, and in terms of pure factual information your contributions are extremely valuable. However posts like the above lead me to question whether you are capable of objectivity on this subject, and it looks like I'm not the only one.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2170 posts, RR: 2
Reply 51, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8327 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 46):
Then get to the topic and stop making this about me personally. That is not just rude but it also violates forum rules.

I am not your personal punching ball. If you cannot debate the issues without incessantly injecting personal judgment into it, get out of here. This has long stopped being funny and it ruins every thread it contaminates, which is why the rules ban this kind of behaviour.

I cannot tell you how mortally tired I am of this kind of BS, regardless of how entertaining you seem to find it.

Heavens   aren't you taking this a little too seriously? You make it sound like waving the Apple flag is some sort of unpleasant chore for you, yet you enthusiastically jump on every Apple thread on this board and keep on posting elaborate pro-Apple responses, to such an extent that you've been the recognized resident Apple maven for years. I can't believe you're not getting anything out of it.

I mean come on, this is the off-topic corner of an aviation website. I'm sure if you really wanted to debate the merits of Apple hardware, there would be much more informed places. This here is a place to mess about, and banter about issues of minor importance (at least in my view), and if it gets a bit heated sometimes, don't let it ruin your mood.   Just my view..



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 52, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8329 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 47):
I'm hoping it's not just a camera upgrade since that's the least useful feature on the phone.

I personally like my phone to have a good camera and have been pleased with the iPhone 4S results:

http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/9581AA82-0F6D-43A8-AE99-0BA2BBCE52F1-6026-00000561A67E06C9.jpg
.
http://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/EA10E2A8-86AD-4353-AB9E-654B4579EF06-6026-0000056534B2B294.jpg


Everyone is different and I take your point as I too am hoping for alot more in terms of screen size and internally and hopefully battery life. I would like to see a better camera too though as its sometimes easier and more discreet if you want to take a pic of something take for instance at an airport where people can be funny about taking pics of aircraft/lounges etc.... Id like to see a better quality for zoom as its terrible for the current 4S.


User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 53, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8326 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 49):
So a civilized discussion would be impossible unless I simply caved to your opinion? Or what exactly are you proposing?

Well, that is sort of the difference. I don't have any strong opinion about any of these companies, and I have both Apple, Google and MS products here in my home. So what exactly do you think my opinion is since you are so keen on telling me that I am trying to force you to have the same opinion as me? I just realize that Apple is just another hardware manufacturer and should not be practiced as a religion as some people actually do (crazy, right? right?)

Quoting Klaus (Reply 49):
Absolutely not!

Really?

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 50):
You're choosing to publicly state your opinion (usually unsolicited, since you generally reply to topics rather than start them) so you have to accept a little bit of scrutiny. Especially when your first reaction to any disappointment in Apple products in this thread is:
Quoting Rara (Reply 51):
Heavens   aren't you taking this a little too seriously? You make it sound like waving the Apple flag is some sort of unpleasant chore for you, yet you enthusiastically jump on every Apple thread on this board and keep on posting elaborate pro-Apple responses, to such an extent that you've been the recognized resident Apple maven for years. I can't believe you're not getting anything out of it.

Thank you!


User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 54, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8317 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 41):
I cannot even begin to describe how counterintuitive the Android interface seemed to me

That goes both ways. There are differences between them and once you get the gist of how each system works they seem to be very similar. It is when you insist on doing it "the old way" there is problem. This isn't just about phone interface. I del with it every time we add functionality to our systems.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 41):
I was rebooting my phone two or three times per day.

That isn't normal.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 41):
And this is no different than the Mac vs. PC issue from the last two decades.

Again, it very much depend on what you're used to. Even after all this time I find it strange how many options change as you click on the settings and not after you press save, removing the cancel option. Every OS have "unusual" things.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 41):
I also really want to know why Apple is changing the USB port. They have to know that they are going to cheese a lot of people off, right?

It really comes down to that connector taking too much space.


User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8315 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 47):

I wouldn't say the 4S was just a camera upgrade.

- An 8 megapixel camera with all new optics and face detection
- 1080p video recording with inbuilt stabilisation
- A dual core A5 chip resulting in significant performance enhancements
- Increased battery life in regards to talk time over 3G
- Bluetooth 4.0
- Siri
- All features of iOS 6 including 3D flyover mode, turn by turn directions and FaceTime over cellular.


With the iPhone 5 there are once again many rumoured upgrades:

- 4" retina display
- 4G LTE
- A higher clocked A5 chip although likely an A5X or A6 chip
- New design
- FaceTime HD camera
- Improved camera (likely just improved optics rather than megapixels)
- Increased RAM
- Larger battery
- New dock connector
- All features of iOS 6


I'd say both are pretty decent upgrades   although you'll find out exact details on Wednesday 12th.

[Edited 2012-09-04 15:15:24]


The amazing tale of flight.
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 56, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8306 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 52):
I personally like my phone to have a good camera and have been pleased with the iPhone 4S results

I should clarify that- I realize that for a lot of people a cellphone camera is important; for me personally though I only use the iPhone camera if I am too lazy to write things down (e.g. a serial number or a recipe) and thus the camera is fine even in the 3G.

For anything else I have another camera which is far more effective at covering up my lack of talent as a photographer  



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 57, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8289 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 50):
You're choosing to publicly state your opinion (usually unsolicited, since you generally reply to topics rather than start them) so you have to accept a little bit of scrutiny.

"Scrutiny"? You guys are aggressively harrassing me here as a poster and as a person – in response to nothing but topical posts from me without any discussion of any other user.

What you are saying amounts to outright personal bullying as an intentional extension of any topical discussion for when actual topical arguments should happen to fail you and you couldn't be bothered to stick to a civilized discussion any more, regardless of me not resorting to this kind of tactic.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 50):
Especially when your first reaction to any disappointment in Apple products in this thread is:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
What "disappointment"? That it still can't cure cancer, just like all its predecessors? Right.

And? The original statement to which I was responding was a polemic claim about the presumably "disappointed" reaction of the public to the 4S (for some reason not borne out by record sales) to which I responded with sarcasm about the claim, not its poster.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 50):
FWIW, I think you clearly know a lot about Apple products, and in terms of pure factual information your contributions are extremely valuable. However posts like the above lead me to question whether you are capable of objectivity on this subject, and it looks like I'm not the only one.

Yes, bullies often like to come in threes or more.

Now, imagine you had actually bothered to argue on the actual topic instead of merely taking personal pot shots at me!

Quoting Rara (Reply 51):
Heavens   aren't you taking this a little too seriously? You make it sound like waving the Apple flag is some sort of unpleasant chore for you, yet you enthusiastically jump on every Apple thread on this board and keep on posting elaborate pro-Apple responses, to such an extent that you've been the recognized resident Apple maven for years. I can't believe you're not getting anything out of it.

I mean come on, this is the off-topic corner of an aviation website. I'm sure if you really wanted to debate the merits of Apple hardware, there would be much more informed places. This here is a place to mess about, and banter about issues of minor importance (at least in my view), and if it gets a bit heated sometimes, don't let it ruin your mood.   Just my view..

In other words: You find it acceptable to barge in on a thread that does not interest you (by your own admission above) just to get off personal pot shots at another poster instead of providing topical arguments, particularly without any provocation in kind.

To put it mildly, your interpretation of the forum rules differs somewhat from mine, apart from being atrocious treatment of a fellow forum member.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 53):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 49):
So a civilized discussion would be impossible unless I simply caved to your opinion? Or what exactly are you proposing?

Well, that is sort of the difference. I don't have any strong opinion about any of these companies, and I have both Apple, Google and MS products here in my home. So what exactly do you think my opinion is since you are so keen on telling me that I am trying to force you to have the same opinion as me?

I have no personal problem with your opinions differing from mine, as I have stated repeatedly and proven in countless discussions where I have not resorted to personal attacks.

You, however, have aggressively gone after me personally in here as in many related threads before since you can't seem to tolerate my opinions in return:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 44):
it is a good thing to be able to discuss the positive and negative things about different products and not be too one-sided

(My emphasis.)

Quoting Klaus (Reply 49):
Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 48):
However, if someone here demands other people to adopt to a certain view here, it has to be you.

Absolutely not!

I make my case, but it remains completely up to you whether you adopt any of my arguments, with no personal pressure attached. If you re-examine my discussion contributions you will find that I do not pursue or bully people personally for disagreeing with me,. That is simply not on.
Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 53):
Really?

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 50):
You're choosing to publicly state your opinion (usually unsolicited, since you generally reply to topics rather than start them) so you have to accept a little bit of scrutiny. Especially when your first reaction to any disappointment in Apple products in this thread is:
Quoting Rara (Reply 51):
Heavens   aren't you taking this a little too seriously? You make it sound like waving the Apple flag is some sort of unpleasant chore for you, yet you enthusiastically jump on every Apple thread on this board and keep on posting elaborate pro-Apple responses, to such an extent that you've been the recognized resident Apple maven for years. I can't believe you're not getting anything out of it.

Thank you!

You cannot quote me actually attacking you, but you quote your co-bullies taking their pot shots at me.

I think you've achieved the exact opposite of what you intended to. You will find it very difficult to come up with an actual quote of me personally harrassing somebody else around here.

I come here to discuss topics which are of some interest to me, treating other people with all respect they're due and sometimes to help others where they need it.

Thank you guys for turning this into a toxic hellhole of personal harrassment and group bullying instead. My goodness. Why do I even come here any more? I just feel sick.  


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 58, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8272 times:

Quoting virginblue4 (Reply 55):
- New dock connector

Hang on- does this mean both my cars require new iPod kits to hook them up to the car? That would be a serious downside for me. I wonder if adapters will be available and if the voltage will remain the same? I had to swap them out when I got my iPhone 4, so I'll be highly peeved if I have to do it again.

Having said that I have twice had bent pins on the current dock connector style so I wouldn't be sad to see it go. Anybody here had much experience with hooking up their Android to their car stereo? Did it work as well as an iPhone?



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently onlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 3016 posts, RR: 1
Reply 59, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 8260 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 58):
I wonder if adapters will be available and if the voltage will remain the same?

It's widely reported (rumors, naturally) that there will be an adapter, like MagSafe to MagSafe 2.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 60, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8235 times:

I was afraid the thread might melt down.

I traced back to what seems to me to be the point where things got sour:

Quoting Rara (Reply 42):
Like no other user here, you have personally committed yourself to one particular company, a company which you believe can do no wrong, of which you believe every product is superior, which always makes the right design decisions and so on.

I have to say this is just is wrong. Klaus has indeed pointed out things Apple has done wrong or could do better, and things that other companies have done well. As for design decisions, to me that's a very subjective thing, and while I can't personally recall criticism in this area, I would not be surprised to find it.

Some members here think various land yachts (oops, sedans!), police cars, buses, elevators or even hearses are the epitome of design in their respective roles, and we don't hound them about it, do we?

I also have to say Klaus and other Apple supporters have been very patient and generous in explaining why they like the Apple products, and in too many cases have gotten unwarranted and thoughtless abuse in return.

Let's keep the discussion about the topics!

[Edited 2012-09-04 19:51:49]


Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2170 posts, RR: 2
Reply 61, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8184 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 60):
I have to say this is just is wrong.

I've re-read it and I stand by it. That said...

Quoting Klaus (Reply 57):
"Scrutiny"? You guys are aggressively harrassing me here as a poster and as a person – in response to nothing but topical posts from me without any discussion of any other user.

What you are saying amounts to outright personal bullying as an intentional extension of any topical discussion for when actual topical arguments should happen to fail you and you couldn't be bothered to stick to a civilized discussion any more, regardless of me not resorting to this kind of tactic.

Whoa... I'm backing off here. I had no idea it bothered you that much. You always struck me as a witty person who loves a heated debate and has a pretty thick skin. It pains me to read you speak of bullying and harrassment, certainly not my intention. In the future I will refrain from entering the Apple threads. Please accept my apology for any injury I may have caused. I have nothing but the greatest respect for you as a person and for your insights. I never intended to hurt your feelings and I'm sorry if I've come across this way.

[Edited 2012-09-05 01:53:14]


Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 62, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8158 times:

There seem to be rumours that USA will get it 21st September and UK and some other European countries 5th October .

User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12973 posts, RR: 25
Reply 63, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8128 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 61):
I've re-read it and I stand by it. That said...

I also stand by what I said. In particular, it's quite common for many people here to have strong loyalties to various people, products or ideas. Looking back over Klaus's posts on Apple, I think the main theme is if it works better for you, great! I've pushed him hard at times on Apple vs Android, and his loyalty/passion/enthusiasm/whatever about Apple clearly comes from a long track record of Apple producing products that work well for him, and he certainly can and does explain that with great clarity.

Quoting Rara (Reply 61):
Whoa... I'm backing off here. I had no idea it bothered you that much. You always struck me as a witty person who loves a heated debate and has a pretty thick skin. It pains me to read you speak of bullying and harrassment, certainly not my intention. In the future I will refrain from entering the Apple threads. Please accept my apology for any injury I may have caused. I have nothing but the greatest respect for you as a person and for your insights. I never intended to hurt your feelings and I'm sorry if I've come across this way.

Thanks for this posting. We're all using an imperfect communications medium without the kind of feedback that might let us know if we're pushing someone too hard, and your posting shows me you're willing to be responsible for what you post, and to back off if it might cause offense.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 64, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8111 times:

Edited: There's nothing more to be said than what has already been said.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 57):
You, however, have aggressively gone after me personally in here as in many related threads before since you can't seem to tolerate my opinions in return:
Quoting Klaus (Reply 57):
You cannot quote me actually attacking you, but you quote your co-bullies taking their pot shots at me.


I could care less about who you are as a person. If you feel how you describe it above, then sorry, but still try to listen to what some of us have said. Maybe there could be some truth behind it?

[Edited 2012-09-05 05:41:27]

User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 65, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8052 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 60):
I traced back to what seems to me to be the point where things got sour:

You don't think that this might have had something to do with it? Here's a philosophical point about the nature of things being longer- a silly aside written with plenty of smileys for absolute clarity about its intentions:

Quoting Rara (Reply 34):
I'm not trying to bug you here, really    but isn't this is a curiously twisted way of saying "they made it longer"? Why would you differentiate between the top and the bottom    isn't that in the nature of things that are made longer? Instead of saying they added "only a few millimeters" at the top and at the bottom, you could also say they added a fair bit more than a few millimeters in the center. But that wouldn't sound quite as tiny, I guess.

And here is the response:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):
If you're just looking for ideological ammunition or personal digs, such details will of course not matter to you, however.

This out-of-proportion response is what bothers me in this thread, along with the earlier post I quoted which Klaus describes as sarcasm and I would describe as rude dismissal of somebody's (pretty uncontentious) opinion. Forum etiquette goes both ways, and you can't antagonize everybody in every thread without expecting some people to stand up for themselves, and when they do claiming you're being bullied just doesn't fly I'm afraid.

Klaus- I'm sorry you feel people are ganging up on you; however I'd encourage you to tone down the rhetoric if you want to avoid confrontation. As I said (and reiterate) your valuable postings on this forum regarding apple products are by and large very educational.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 66, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8042 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 64):
I could care less about who you are as a person.

You constantly in almost every thread on these kinds of topic keep diverting topical discussions away from the issues and towards a discussion of whether I am allowed to have my views, insofar you clearly "could care less" indeed.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 64):
If you feel how you describe it above, then sorry, but still try to listen to what some of us have said. Maybe there could be some truth behind it?

That you judge my topical views as unacceptable for you, and as "valid" cause to switch to personal harrassment instead of actually arguing?

Then you're simply in violation of forum rules.

I can live with your views and I do not discuss you as a person. Your failure to bring any evidence for that is telling, while you keep taking shots at myself almost every time.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 65):
This out-of-proportion response is what bothers me in this thread

You are quoting out of context, distorting what actually happened:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 38):
If you're just looking for ideological ammunition or personal digs, such details will of course not matter to you, however.

Quoting Rara (Reply 34):
But this isn't about phone sizes (the virtues of which can be debated). This is about how you, who has been very vocal about the iPhone being the perfect size and other top-end phones getting too large, accomodate the fact that the iPhone is now also becoming larger, particularly since you almost never find fault with any Apple decision.

Do you have any interest in the actual topic or are you just trying to provoke an emotional reaction?

My remarks about this particular aspect have been very consistent if you actually care to look them up.

It couldn't be any clearer.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 65):
Klaus- I'm sorry you feel people are ganging up on you; however I'd encourage you to tone down the rhetoric if you want to avoid confrontation. As I said (and reiterate) your valuable postings on this forum regarding apple products are by and large very educational.

I am not discussing other posters. I discuss issues (and only in rare cases such as this behaviours).

What you're demanding is effectively that I should stop holding topical views which you just don't happen to like, or face the kind of personal harrassment by you and others as seen above, effectively the age-old bully threat "shut up or else".

This attitude completely destroys any topical discussion, apart from being incredibly rude and totally uncalled for.


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 67, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 8029 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 66):

I've said my piece- up to you whether you consider it or ignore it. I'd advise the former.

Quoting virginblue4 (Reply 55):
I'd say both are pretty decent upgrades   although you'll find out exact details on Wednesday 12th.

Anyway, back on topic, I was rummaging through google and found this which I expect everyone else has already seen:

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/4729...headphones-redesigned-for-iphone-5

I'm intrigued. Are these real? Are the grills on the side supposed to be bass ports? I'm confused as to how these work. Or do they go in your ears sideways and the smaller holes are bass ports? They look quite radical- I hope they're more comfortable than the 4 ones.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 68, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8004 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 66):

Stop beating the dead horse, please?

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 67):
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/4729...headphones-redesigned-for-iphone-5

I'm intrigued. Are these real? Are the grills on the side supposed to be bass ports? I'm confused as to how these work. Or do they go in your ears sideways and the smaller holes are bass ports? They look quite radical- I hope they're more comfortable than the 4 ones.

Not sure if they look very comfortable. Will be interesting to try them out. Hopefully the sound quality is better than with the current version.


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 69, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7998 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 68):
Not sure if they look very comfortable. Will be interesting to try them out. Hopefully the sound quality is better than with the current version.

Actually I think the sound quality isn't bad on the current ones. They have pretty good midband- the bass is a bit wimpy but since I listen to a lot of podcasts with them that's perfect- bass isn't so good for talking.

One feature I would really love which may already exist (I don't know) is the ability to crossfade between earbuds on certain tracks. For example, a lot of sixties music is badly mastered in such a way that instruments are panned entirely to the left or the right, which sounds OK on speakers since you can still hear them in both ears, but horribly unnatural on earphones. I'd love a setting where you can just switch on, say, a 30% crossfade between the two earbuds to compensate for this.

Anybody ever heard of such a feature?



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 70, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7984 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 68):
Stop beating the dead horse, please?

I can see why you're uncomfortable.

Just stop resorting to personal harrassment when confronted with different opinions.

I can live with yours. And you should be capable of living with mine.


User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 71, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7941 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 70):
I can see why you're uncomfortable.

Uncomfortable because you seem obsessed about writing the same things over and over again even though several people in this thread have tried to explain to you in a nice way about how you take criticism of Apple way too personal. But if it makes you happy; we're all wrong and you're right, and we were all trying to get you.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1724 posts, RR: 2
Reply 72, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7945 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 58):
Hang on- does this mean both my cars require new iPod kits to hook them up to the car?

Apparently, yes.

Quote:
Apple will reportedly be the exclusive source of adapters to connect the upcoming sixth-generation iPhone to existing dock accessories. According to sources speaking to iLounge, Apple isn't sharing the specs of an oft-rumored smaller connector set to debut next week, and may use "licensing agreements and threats of lawsuits" to prevent third-party adapters from hitting the market through at least 2012.
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/09...e-market-for-iphone-dock-adapters/


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 73, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7913 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 71):
Uncomfortable because you seem obsessed about writing the same things over and over again even though several people in this thread have tried to explain to you in a nice way about how you take criticism of Apple way too personal.

I have views which you absolutely can't stand. I get that.

You getting personal and inserting personally dissmissive statements into your posts in almost every thread of this kind is where you cross the line.

I do not treat you that way, as evidenced by your failure to come up with any actual quotes to that effect. I simply ask you for the same courtesy in return. It is not up to you whether I'm allowed to hold my views, as it is not up to me to censor yours.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 71):
But if it makes you happy; we're all wrong and you're right, and we were all trying to get you.

Which one of us is right regarding any topical issue is entirely immaterial to the level of respect we owe to each other in a civilized conversation.

I don't question your sanity or your personal judgment for disagreeing with me. All I ask for is to be afforded the same level of respect in return. It's not just a requirement of the forum rules, it is also plain human decency.

If you can't live with other people's different views, what are you doing in a discussion forum in the first place?


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 74, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 7885 times:

Quoting Acheron (Reply 72):
Apple will reportedly be the exclusive source of adapters to connect the upcoming sixth-generation iPhone to existing dock accessories. According to sources speaking to iLounge, Apple isn't sharing the specs of an oft-rumored smaller connector set to debut next week, and may use "licensing agreements and threats of lawsuits" to prevent third-party adapters from hitting the market through at least 2012.

That's incredibly annoying given how overpriced the Apple accessories are. I'm hoping it won't make any difference though and that there will be plenty of Chinese knockoffs available.

I thought I had asked this already, but maybe not- has anybody got an android phone hooked up to their car using a physical wire as opposed to bluetooth etc? Does it work?



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently onlineBraniff747SP From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 3016 posts, RR: 1
Reply 75, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7859 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 74):
That's incredibly annoying given how overpriced the Apple accessories are. I'm hoping it won't make any difference though and that there will be plenty of Chinese knockoffs available.

I just read something saying it could be $10, but if you wait a couple of weeks you'll see a dozen Chinese knockoffs for a dollar online.



The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 76, posted (2 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7799 times:

Nokia seems to have lost the market in their last ditch attempt to capture a place in the smartphone market.
Their shares dropped and media and users alike were far from impressed.

Nokia shares nose-dived as it unveiled its latest Windows-powered smartphone in what may be its last chance at winning back a lucrative market lost to rivals.

The Finnish company's share price crashed by 18% before rallying back to 10% as it unveiled what it called the 'most innovative smartphone in the world' at a glitzy launch in New York.

Analysts were unimpressed by its Lumia 920, which uses the Windows Phone 8 operating system, and includes wireless charging and 'Pureview' camera technology to help reduce blur from hand motion.

Sky's technology correspondent Katie Stallard said: 'It was a big thumbs down. I wonder whether it was partly influenced by the manner in which it was launched.

http://www.skynews.com.au/tech/article.aspx?id=791926


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 77, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 7550 times:



So tomorrow we will know what all the fuss is about  

Lots of live blogs on various websites. Some listed below :

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/appl...3380316/iphone-5-launch-live-blog/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/techn...ne-event-live-blog/article4533194/

http://live.cnet.com/Event/CNETs_App...t_live_blog_Wednesday_September_12

For us in the UK and Ireland its 6pm local time.

----

Anyalysts are predicting that the iPhone 5 will boost the US Economy due to the volume of sales .

iPhone 5 could save US economy... literally

New York - The next generation iPhone 5, which Apple plans to release this week, could not only boost the tech giant's bottom line - but could give a significant boost to the overall US economy.

Sales of the new iPhone could add between a quarter and a half percentage point to fourth quarter annualized growth in the US, according to J.P. Morgan's chief economist, Michael Feroli in a note to clients on Monday.

http://www.iol.co.za/scitech/technol...ave-us-economy-literally-1.1380258


User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7848 posts, RR: 5
Reply 78, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7485 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 77):
Anyalysts are predicting that the iPhone 5 will boost the US Economy due to the volume of sales . iPhone 5 could save US economy... literally

Shame they aren't made in the US as the benefit would be even higher.


User currently offlineQFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2084 posts, RR: 1
Reply 79, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7472 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 77):
Anyalysts are predicting that the iPhone 5 will boost the US Economy due to the volume of sales .

In other news analysts are predicting that analysts will make wild predictions about popular companies in order to boost ratings.

Lets optimistically say Apple sells 10 million iPhones in the first 3 days (4S sold 4million, 4 sold 2 million) lets say $500 each, cost of making them in China is $150 (probably higher). $4.5 billion over 3 days out of total US GDP of roughly $120 billion, after the first week sales drop massively. After those 3 days iPhone sales plummet while the US economy keeps chugging along.

People forget that while Apple may be a valuable and profitable company, their revenue, ie their contribution to GDP, minus intermediate goods, is fairly small potatoes compared to the big daddies of Exxon, Shell, Walmart and BP.


User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 80, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 7451 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 56):
I realize that for a lot of people a cellphone camera is important

The camera in my iPhone is a blessing because it is always within reach - something my "real" camera is normally not.

It's normal for me to take 3 or 4 snaps when I do take a digital picture and the iPhone has about 1,000 photos on file these days.

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 58):
Hang on- does this mean both my cars require new iPod kits to hook them up to the car?

Probably. Put the old kits on Craig's List and you'll get something back.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 79):
After those 3 days iPhone sales plummet while the US economy keeps chugging along.

I agree that there will be a huge initial sales rate. I understand that you will be able to order your new iPhone 5 online as of the 12th, but will have to wait until the 21st to buy one in the shops. That means Apple wills tart shipping the internet orders from China a few days before the 21st. FedEx has already put staff on standby for a "surge".

And on the 21st there will be the traditional line outside a lot of stores. Some people actually enjoy being in that line - lots of discussions, etc.

After that first weekend there may be some drop in sales, but it will not be that big a dip. iPhone sales will be brisk for the holiday shopping season and will continue until the rumors of the iPhone 6 gains a lot of strength and slows the iPhone 5 sales down.


User currently offlinevirginblue4 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2008, 916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 7443 times:

This is quite interesting and clever!

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/09/yerba-buena-stretched-icon/



The amazing tale of flight.
User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 82, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7428 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 80):
The camera in my iPhone is a blessing because it is always within reach - something my "real" camera is normally not.

I would never leave home without my trusty Leica   (unless I'm going out in Oakland of course)

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 80):
Probably. Put the old kits on Craig's List and you'll get something back.

Not really the cost I'm worried about- they're less than $100 usually- it's the effort of wiring it all up. Back before I had a house I had time to do stuff like that- now I get about 2 hours per week of job-free time!



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 83, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 7384 times:

Quoting zckls04 (Reply 82):
my trusty Leica

Film or digital?  


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 84, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7363 times:

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 79):
Lets optimistically say Apple sells 10 million iPhones in the first 3 days (4S sold 4million, 4 sold 2 million) lets say $500 each, cost of making them in China is $150 (probably higher). $4.5 billion over 3 days out of total US GDP of roughly $120 billion, after the first week sales drop massively. After those 3 days iPhone sales plummet while the US economy keeps chugging along.

iPhone sales just don't "plummet" – they keep relatively steady through the quarters, even with the first quarter of the new model being the relatively strongest and the last before its replacement the relatively weakest.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 79):
People forget that while Apple may be a valuable and profitable company, their revenue, ie their contribution to GDP, minus intermediate goods, is fairly small potatoes compared to the big daddies of Exxon, Shell, Walmart and BP.

Nope. Your information is outdated. Apple is just about to pass Exxon by net income as well, and that is the metric that actually counts.

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=apple+vs.+exxon+net+income


User currently offlinelewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3679 posts, RR: 5
Reply 85, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 7362 times:

My work phone is due for an update and I'm waiting to see what option B (iPhone vs Option A, Galaxy III) looks like. I have used the Samsung and it is a really cool phone. I am not expecting miracles from Apple though, their new announcements tend to include what is already offered by other phones in the market.

Either way, I am dumping Blackberry for good.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 86, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7283 times:

Apparantly the IO6 will have a call block feature which is great. I hope you can block certain numbers as from time to time I get these stupid cold callers trying to sell me products which I hate. Id love to be able to bar them.

User currently offlineQFA380 From Australia, joined Jul 2005, 2084 posts, RR: 1
Reply 87, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7228 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 84):
Nope. Your information is outdated. Apple is just about to pass Exxon by net income as well, and that is the metric that actually counts.

I clearly said revenue not net income. OA260 referred a boost to the US economy, implying GDP. GDP is the value of all goods sold, which will be revenue.
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=apple+vs.+exxon+revenue
Similar results for Walmart, BP and Shell, just like I said; those 4 combined pull in nearly $2 trillion a year.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 84):
iPhone sales just don't "plummet"

Unless Apple is selling 120million iPhones a quarter (hint, they're not) they do indeed plummet after the first few days. Consistent between quarters yes but not between the days immediately after release and every other day during the product cycle, which is what I said.

Please read this post several times before commenting again because you seem to have a problem with that. Cheers.


User currently offlineSpeedbirdie From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 929 posts, RR: 52
Reply 88, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7220 times:

After reading all of the above posts I've decided to issue tampons to everyone as I am actually interested about the iPhone coming out....

Does anyone have any info about the time this new iPhone will be screened? I'm in the UK and not sure for how much longer I can contain myself.. Will it be televionised does anyone know?

AARGH hurry up 



Never give up..
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 89, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7218 times:

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 87):
I clearly said revenue not net income. OA260 referred a boost to the US economy, implying GDP. GDP is the value of all goods sold, which will be revenue.
http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=apple+vs.+exxon+revenue
Similar results for Walmart, BP and Shell, just like I said; those 4 combined pull in nearly $2 trillion a year.

Revenue is no measure of the actual success of a company, since you can have massive revenue and not earn anything or even actually lose mony at the same time.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 87):
Unless Apple is selling 120million iPhones a quarter (hint, they're not) they do indeed plummet after the first few days. Consistent between quarters yes but not between the days immediately after release and every other day during the product cycle, which is what I said.

When you have an intial spike of sales due to pent-up demand it hardly makes sense to call the normalization afterwards a "plummet" in sales since that would imply a previously steady, higher volume which such a spike never provides. It would be just as silly to call the ramp-up to that short spike "skyrocketing" sales since that is not the case either. It's just the dynamic front-end of the sales curve. Of course if you want to paint an intentionally skewed picture you're free to choose such wording, but it has little to do with reality.

Sustained demand for a product is almost completely independent of such an initial spike; Often an initial sales spike is followed by a dip right afterwards. Only the stabilized numbers in the weeks and months including but also following the spike give a realistic image, and contrary to your insinuation, iPhone sales usually develop rather steadily, dwarfing the initial spike in volume, which is the operative information there.

Of course Apple (like many other manufacturers) like to crow about initial sales volume during the first few days (if they were actually any good), but that is effectively just part of marketing to both customers and shareholders and provides little actual substance.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 90, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7219 times:

Quoting Speedbirdie (Reply 88):
Does anyone have any info about the time this new iPhone will be screened? I'm in the UK and not sure for how much longer I can contain myself..

1 hour 47 minutes from now.
Quoting Speedbirdie (Reply 88):
Will it be televionised does anyone know?

No. There will be many live blogs running (some with photos), but no live stream. A few hours afterwards Apple usually posts the entire recording on their web site.

Quoting Speedbirdie (Reply 88):
AARGH hurry up

  


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 91, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7219 times:

Rumour roundups and latest leaks:

http://www.macrumors.com/

Motherboard photo confirms:

• A6 SoC

• Qualcomm MDM9615M baseband controller (2nd-generation LTE/UMTS/GSM/CDMA with improved power efficiency)

• no Samsung Flash at least on the photographed board (others may still have Samsung parts, however)

[Edited 2012-09-12 08:18:42]

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 92, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7179 times:

macrumors.com has some links to sites that will be delivering live text & pics:



http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/12/...ge-of-apples-iphone-5-media-event/


THe sites listed:

- Engadget
- Ars Technica
- The Verge
- The Loop
- gdgt
- Macworld
- AllThingsD
- CNET
- SlashGear
- AnandTech

The macrumors site provides the links.


User currently offlineWolbo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 93, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7170 times:

Will be interesting to see if Apple has successfully caught up with the competition.

User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 94, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7155 times:

Quoting Wolbo (Reply 93):
Will be interesting to see if Apple has successfully caught up with the competition.

Well they haven't needed to worry about that much recently and probably still don't, because they still are the one's to beat. They have set the market standard for performance (maybe not "the best" but excellent still), user experience, apps, integration, etc. All they need to do is keep doing what they have been doing and add a little more to fend off competitors chasing them.

To that I wonder if and what they can and will "add" beside everything that is expected. I do think they need to do something more now, but I don't think they need to "catch up" as much as stay ahead. Yes I know the Android activation far out strip iPhone now and make up over half the market but the iPhone is still "the" device that all others compare themselves to. That could end though and fast too, innovation is hard but they need to keep doing it.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 95, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7154 times:

Nearly there :



User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 96, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7136 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 89):
Revenue is no measure of the actual success of a company, since you can have massive revenue and not earn anything or even actually lose mony at the same time.

It is a better measure of a company's contribution to the economy than net income though, which is what QF was referring to. An airline making a slight loss would be contributing more to the economy than, say, a profit-making lemonade stand. Profits are just one component of a company's value.

Having said that it's still a bit flawed comparison, because we don't know how much of the value of the goods of Apple/Exxon are generated in the supply chain rather than by the company at the end. So one could argue all day about which contributes more to the economy, and get nowhere.

A better question- whose stock would you buy (assuming you can't have both)? Exxon still seems the better bet, at least long-term.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 83):
Film or digital?  

I shoot both- but my Leica is an M7.



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineSpeedbirdie From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 929 posts, RR: 52
Reply 97, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7140 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 95):

-pant pant pant- hehe 



Never give up..
User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4863 posts, RR: 25
Reply 98, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7123 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting tugger (Reply 94):
Yes I know the Android activation far out strip iPhone now and make up over half the market but the iPhone is still "the" device that all others compare themselves to. That could end though and fast too, innovation is hard but they need to keep doing it.

What gets overlooked when people talk about Android surpassing iPhone in number of units sold, Android isn't one device, there are dozens of Android phones made from various manufacturers. The iPhone, being one phone, is pretty darn impressive with its share of the market.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 99, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7107 times:

They are just talking about the retail stores in Barcelona.

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 100, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7109 times:

Here it is :


.

.

.


[Edited 2012-09-12 10:31:17]

User currently offlineshamrock350 From Ireland, joined Mar 2005, 6373 posts, RR: 14
Reply 101, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7082 times:

Well it looks nice. Thinnest smartphone in the world, same width as current models but taller.

In the UK it looks like o2 and the newly rebranded EE (Everything Everywhere) will support LTE on the iPhone5.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 102, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7098 times:

4" display
LTE up to 100Mb/s
WiFi up to 150Mb/s
A6 CPU and GPU each about twice as fast
(USB3 with the new connector should be following)


User currently offlineWolbo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 103, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7094 times:

It's confirmed: The iPhone 5 has five rows of icons.

Unbelievable, will the World ever be the same again?


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 104, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7089 times:

Battery life: 8 hours of 3G or LTE talk time or browsing. 10 hours on WiFi browsing. (from the Verge)

That is phenomenal for an ultracompact LTE phone.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 105, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7076 times:

Impressive so far . Like the new features. Just give us the release date in UK/Ireland

User currently offlineSpeedbirdie From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 929 posts, RR: 52
Reply 106, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7067 times:

Cor, he could have dressed a little better to present this no?


Never give up..
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 107, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7074 times:

Quoting Speedbirdie (Reply 107):
Cor, he could have dressed a little better to present this no?

Phil? Definitely no. Nobody would have recognized him.   


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 108, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7055 times:

As predicted a new connector:


.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 109, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7022 times:

I love the passbook idea and will come in handy for travelling :


.


User currently offlineviaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2147 posts, RR: 7
Reply 110, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7011 times:

Same old boring iOS. Back to my Android.


Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7848 posts, RR: 5
Reply 111, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7020 times:

All looks good apart from the new connector design, since this will become the new standard for iPods, iPads and all the rest it obsoletes at lot of the items which connect to it, least of all my Geneva dock.

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27342 posts, RR: 60
Reply 112, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6983 times:

21st September in UK ! Great news .



User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7848 posts, RR: 5
Reply 113, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 6964 times:

anything else new apart from the iPhone 5 in this announcement?

User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1724 posts, RR: 2
Reply 114, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6941 times:

So, nothing to write home about and adding stuff that has been pretty much standard on other phones for a while?.

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 115, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6942 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 114):
All looks good apart from the new connector design, since this will become the new standard for iPods, iPads and all the rest it obsoletes at lot of the items which connect to it, least of all my Geneva dock.

No, there will be an adapter. Which needs to re-create the various analog legacy signals which have now been abandoned, so it will not just be a trivial plug but will have to contain various active components (A/D and D/A converters among them).

It has not been mentioned yet, but I expect them to support USB3 with the new connector as well, if not right away then eventually. We'll have to see whether the iPhone 5 already supports it at this point.


The Apple products were never about being the first having a particular feature on paper, they were always with priority about the total user experience, and that has not changed at all.

If I was looking to buy spec sheets, I might end up with anything on the market just with the longest bullet list.

But what's most important to Apple and to most of their users is whether the actual, real-life user experience holds up to expectations. And that is a very different matter.

[Edited 2012-09-12 11:34:14 by srbmod]

User currently offlineCONTACREW From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6939 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 118):
anything else new apart from the iPhone 5 in this announcement?

The charging wire or whatever you wanna call it has changed.



Flight Attendants prepare doors for departure, cross check verify straps standby for all call
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 117, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6937 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 118):
anything else new apart from the iPhone 5 in this announcement?

• New iTunes in October with a completely revamped UI.

• New iPod Nano with MultiTouch (not iOS).

• New iPod Touch (4" display, A5 SoC, new 5MP camera, Siri, 5 colours...)

Still going...

[Edited 2012-09-12 11:32:30]

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 118, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6918 times:

New earbuds (will they suck any less than the current ones...?).

User currently offlineKiwiRob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7848 posts, RR: 5
Reply 119, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6912 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 117):
Still going...

Maybe a smaller iPad? I would like a smaller one.


User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1724 posts, RR: 2
Reply 120, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6908 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 117):
• New iTunes in October with a completely revamped UI.

• New iPod Nano with MultiTouch (not iOS).

• New iPod Touch (4" display, A5 SoC, new 5MP camera, Siri, 5 colours...)

Still going...

So much innovation going on...


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 121, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6901 times:

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 119):
Maybe a smaller iPad? I would like a smaller one.

The smaller iPad is expected for a separate event (but its existence is practically confirmed through numerous leaks just like the iPhone 5 was).

Extremely unlikely that they will tack it on to this already long-running event.

Wrapping up – Foo Fighters as musical guest.

[Edited 2012-09-12 11:43:34]

User currently offlineJetsgo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3086 posts, RR: 5
Reply 122, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6885 times:

New iMac's pleeeease! Foo Fighters coming on now...


Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 123, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6896 times:

Apple continues to be the stick in the mud when it comes to connectors and cables. Pretty much the entire cell phone industry has agreed to use Micro USB and Apple decides to come out with a new connector/cable to replace their current one.

I'm sure the companies that make all sorts of iPhone/iPod accessories like chargers and docks are a bit miffed as they now have to develop new versions of these products for the future products since that means they will see sales of their existing lines begin to tail off as more and more Apple products with the new connectors come onto the market. I'm sure there will be an adapter to "bridge the gap" so to speak.


User currently offlineCONTACREW From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6873 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 123):
Apple continues to be the stick in the mud when it comes to connectors and cables. Pretty much the entire cell phone industry has agreed to use Micro USB and Apple decides to come out with a new connector/cable to replace their current one.

I'm sure the companies that make all sorts of iPhone/iPod accessories like chargers and docks are a bit miffed as they now have to develop new versions of these products for the future products since that means they will see sales of their existing lines begin to tail off as more and more Apple products with the new connectors come onto the market. I'm sure there will be an adapter to "bridge the gap" so to speak.

Right now I have the 4S and I'm still using the same charging wire that came with the phone when i got it back in December of last year, however when I had the 3gs model, it seemed like I was buying a new wire every 4-6 months. Also I believe this new iphone 5 will be coming with a new ear buds?



Flight Attendants prepare doors for departure, cross check verify straps standby for all call
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 125, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6858 times:

Quoting srbmod (Reply 123):
Apple continues to be the stick in the mud when it comes to connectors and cables. Pretty much the entire cell phone industry has agreed to use Micro USB and Apple decides to come out with a new connector/cable to replace their current one.

Apple was never part of the problem – they had always used standard Firewire on the first iPod and beginning with the second iPod standard USB connectors and chargers for all their mobile devices, never the bizarre assortment of incompatible special plugs used by the competition which even caused the necessity of an eventual standard plug.

The new plug eliminates the dreaded crap, the plug was the other way again experience we all know from standard USB, it is extremely compact, with its full-metal chassis likely more robust and it is almost certainly designed to carry USB3 which requires a pretty ugly tacked-on double plug with Micro USB.

Micro USB also cannot provide more than 500mA charging power while the iPhone can draw up to 1000mA if it can get it. Only the USB3 micro variant can supply up to 900mA, but I don't see any existing phone having that connector.

So the Micro USB connector mainly solves a problem the iPhone never had – and it's a limitation to below what the iPhone already could do.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 123):
I'm sure the companies that make all sorts of iPhone/iPod accessories like chargers and docks are a bit miffed as they now have to develop new versions of these products for the future products since that means they will see sales of their existing lines begin to tail off as more and more Apple products with the new connectors come onto the market. I'm sure there will be an adapter to "bridge the gap" so to speak.

Peripherals with a standard USB socket have nothing to fear. Even for peripherals with the old Dock Connector there will be adapters.

What remains to be seen is whether Apple will license the Lightning connector to others, but the Bose speaker system with a Lightning Dock would suggest that they will.

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 124):
Right now I have the 4S and I'm still using the same charging wire that came with the phone when i got it back in December of last year, however when I had the 3gs model, it seemed like I was buying a new wire every 4-6 months.

Why? I'm still using the same cable I got with my 2nd generation iPod Touch, and the same cable works/worked just as well with my iPhone 3GS, iPad 1, iPad 3 and iPhone 4S.

Quoting CONTACREW (Reply 124):
Also I believe this new iphone 5 will be coming with a new ear buds?

Looks like it. What about it?

[Edited 2012-09-12 12:08:47]

User currently offlineJetsgo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3086 posts, RR: 5
Reply 126, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6845 times:

Klaus, any idea on the new iMac's? Looks like another event gone by without anything...  


Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 127, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6857 times:

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 126):
Klaus, any idea on the new iMac's? Looks like another event gone by without anything...

According to recent rumours they're having yield problems with the direct-laminated display panels which has caused them to postpone that presentation. Retina displays are not expected, but the new CPU generation complete with USB3 and likely an updated external design.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11583 posts, RR: 52
Reply 128, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6855 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 115):
No, there will be an adapter. Which needs to re-create the various analog legacy signals which have now been abandoned, so it will not just be a trivial plug but will have to contain various active components (A/D and D/A converters among them).

As a former digital engineer, I'm absolutely shocked that there were analog signals in the preexisting cable.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 117):
• New iTunes in October with a completely revamped UI.

Fantastic, but waaaaay too late. I've pretty much given up on iTunes.

Quoting srbmod (Reply 123):
I'm sure the companies that make all sorts of iPhone/iPod accessories like chargers and docks are a bit miffed as they now have to develop new versions of these products for the future products since that means they will see sales of their existing lines begin to tail off as more and more Apple products with the new connectors come onto the market.

I don't think you could be further from correct. The manufacturers that make all these accessories will be ecstatic that Apple products need a new connection since everyone's connection is now obsolete. That is a huge new market for them to tap.

Only the consumers (who now have to replace all this stuff) will gripe. And gripe they will... all the way into the accessory-makers' arms.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 129, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 6844 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 128):
As a former digital engineer, I'm absolutely shocked that there were analog signals in the preexisting cable.

Traditionally that would be A Bad Thing indeed, but with low-voltage differential signals becoming the norm and transfer rates in the hundreds of Megabits/second it's not nearly as critical as it has been in the old age of "steam" TTL-level signals with high currents and with signal spectra intersecting the audible frequency range...

Nowadays digital and analog are much less of an issue than all the different RF signals floating around (GSM/UMTS, WiFi, BlueTooth) without interference to both digital and analog cable connection. Impressively enough, I've never had any audible artefacts or malfunctions which might have been caused by interference with my iPhone or other iOS devices. But particularly with cheap third-party cables that seems to be happening quite frequently. It's a miracle that it normally doesn't all the time.

Quoting D L X (Reply 128):
Fantastic, but waaaaay too late. I've pretty much given up on iTunes.

I'm still using it as my main music player. I'll certainly welcome a more refined design in some corners, but overall it works properly for me with very little friction.

Quoting D L X (Reply 128):
Only the consumers (who now have to replace all this stuff) will gripe. And gripe they will... all the way into the accessory-makers' arms.

And many will just get an adapter for their older gear and call it a day.

[Edited 2012-09-12 12:22:30]

User currently offlineracko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 130, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6841 times:

"But perhaps the most amazing new feature in the iPhone 5 is called panorama."

They have changed the world. Again.


User currently offlineJetsgo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3086 posts, RR: 5
Reply 131, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6820 times:

Quoting racko (Reply 130):
They have changed the world. Again.

I thought the fifth column of app icons was the true game changer here?



Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 132, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6826 times:

Well, no major surprises here. Faster core, bigger display, thinner phone, LTE, some camera improvements. What I haven't heard about is the iOS upgrades. I haven't heard any mention of the turn-by-turn feature or any other new features that this new iPhone 5 will have. Maybe those will come later?

The big issue that I've had with my iPhone 4 is the lack of LTE. Not only will LTE enable larger downloads on the phone itself (I do a lot of audiobooks, given my one-hour commute each way to work), but Verizon allows customers to use their phones as mobile broadband base stations. Currently, I have a little mobile 4G WiFi station which has poor performance (drops signal, shuts off randomly, eats data like crazy for no apparent reason), so I'm looking forward to simply being able to use my phone as the WiFi base station when I'm traveling.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 133, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6819 times:

Quoting racko (Reply 130):
They have changed the world. Again.

Everybody is free to choose what to be impressed with...

This was a regular refinement upgrade to the iPhone and iPod Touch, a mid-level redesign for the iPod Nano and a few minor improvements scattered about beyond that.

Shattering the earth is on the agenda not that frequently even at Apple, but I'd say with the Apple II, Macintosh, iPod, iTunes, iPhone and iPad they've managed quite a few more breakthroughs than your ordinary hardware manufacturer, wouldn't you say?


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11583 posts, RR: 52
Reply 134, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6795 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 129):
it's not nearly as critical as it has been in the old age of "steam" TTL-level signals

Damn, Klaus! I'm not THAT old...

(And I also don't buy it. The only legitimate reason the iPhone should have had analog signals in its cable is that it used the 2003 iPod cable, which of course, was an audio device.)

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 132):
I haven't heard any mention of the turn-by-turn feature or any other new features that this new iPhone 5 will have.

Turn-by-turn navigation is in there. It's part of iOS 6.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineaznmadsci From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 3716 posts, RR: 6
Reply 135, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6786 times:

From the Apple iOS6 page:



Is that a precursor of the AA-US merger and the new AA joining Star?   



The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.
User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 136, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6753 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 134):
Damn, Klaus! I'm not THAT old...

Maybe not, but I am!  

I've started my digital career in the 1970s with actual 74-no-damn-LS-or-C-XX TTL chips as TI created them...!   

Quoting D L X (Reply 134):
(And I also don't buy it. The only legitimate reason the iPhone should have had analog signals in its cable is that it used the 2003 iPod cable, which of course, was an audio device.)

It was a cost-effective way to do it back in 2002 – but even back then the iPod had FireWire and/or USB running through it, plus at least another UART signal for peripheral control.

And even my current iPhone 4S and my iPad 3 have no trouble at all providing perfectly clean audio without any interference through the same Dock Connector, even while the various radios are active. It's certainly a progressively growing challenge to keep it that way, so they chose to push out all the analog stuff to external adapters or to wireless at this point.

From an engineering point of view I understand that it's a great relief getting rid of all the analog stuff (line in, line out, analog video...), but it makes future peripherals a bit more complex, if just marginally with current technology.


User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3077 posts, RR: 36
Reply 137, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6750 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

I am disappoint
It's not earth shattering. Nothing really new.
Improvements yes, but nothing that's never been heard of before or seen elsewhere.
Also one big thing I'm surprise they haven't included, Near Field Communications. No NFC is listed on the specs, that's VERY surprising especially with the virtual wallet/payment-by-MT becoming the "next thing", no NFC puts the iP5 at a disadvantage.
*shrug*

Quoting srbmod (Reply 123):
Pretty much the entire cell phone industry has agreed to use Micro USB and Apple decides to come out with a new connector/cable to replace their current one.

Apple was the only "maker" of the top 10 to NOT endorse the industry standard recommendation from the 3GPP Hardware Group. HTC, Samsung, LG, Nokia, Motorola, RIM, SonyEricsson, Sony, Hauwei, HP all switched at least for smart phones. I can't believe they couldn't of used it instead of "Lightning".



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineAcheron From Spain, joined Sep 2005, 1724 posts, RR: 2
Reply 138, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6742 times:



User currently offlineplanewasted From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6736 times:

I'm not an Apple fan so I might be biased but I try to be objective.  

I'm not that impressed. I thought they would present something that would differentiate the phone from others. For example great battery life, that's something Apple has been good at with other products. Instead they presented pretty bad battery for a high end phone. It may be thin but the ergonomics still looks pretty bad with sharp corners. IPhone 4 is, according to me, the most uncomfortable modern phone you can have in you pocket.

Impressed by:
Looks, Apple continues to do the best looking phones.
Chip performance, extra nice because I know guys from the company Apple bought to get some of their chip technology from.   Wonder how they will use it?

The reason for buying it as I see, is mainly iOS, the rest? Naaah...

[Edited 2012-09-12 13:02:53]

[Edited 2012-09-12 13:08:51]

User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 140, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6706 times:



Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 137):
I am disappoint
It's not earth shattering. Nothing really new.
Improvements yes, but nothing that's never been heard of before or seen elsewhere.

The 2007 presentation of the first iPhone has really spoiled expectations there.
 

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 137):
Also one big thing I'm surprise they haven't included, Near Field Communications. No NFC is listed on the specs, that's VERY surprising especially with the virtual wallet/payment-by-MT becoming the "next thing", no NFC puts the iP5 at a disadvantage.

There's a different school of thought on that as well:

• NFC opens new security issues (see the device intrusion attacks on NFC Android devices which still hasn't been fixed and will likely not be fixed for most of the affected devices).

• What's actually the big advantage to NFC? Bar codes in the display can serve the same purpose without forcing new hardware either in stores (optical scanners are already present in many cases) or in devices. The Passbook app runs on all iOS 6 devices right out of the gate – that's a giant critical mass right from day 1, even including users of older devices. By sheer numbers, almost all iDevice users will immediately be able to use it).

In the end what counts is how useful it will be in practice. And I wouldn't be surprised if Passbook turned out to be a much bigger deal than NFC on a few scattered Android devices with lacking security to back it up.

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 137):
Apple was the only "maker" of the top 10 to NOT endorse the industry standard recommendation from the 3GPP Hardware Group.

No. They have endorsed it. You can buy the adapter. It is just a step backwards from what the iPhone already offers, on more than one front.

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 137):
I can't believe they couldn't of used it instead of "Lightning".

Micro USB is very limiting by comparison to both the older Dock Connector and to the new Lightning connector. They would have had to cut off most of the existing peripherals without any advantage to show for it.

Quoting planewasted (Reply 139):
I'm not that impressed. I thought they would present something that would differentiate the phone from others. For example great battery life, that's something Apple has been good at with other products. Instead they presented pretty bad battery for a high end phone.

Battery life is actually excellent, particularly when actually using LTE and particularly for a compact and light smartphone.

[Edited 2012-09-12 13:15:36]

User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 3077 posts, RR: 36
Reply 141, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6672 times:
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Quoting Klaus (Reply 140):
What's actually the big advantage to NFC? Bar codes in the display can serve the same purpose without forcing new hardware either in stores (optical scanners are already present in many cases) or in devices. The Passbook app runs on all iOS 6 devices right out of the gate – that's a giant critical mass right from day 1, even including users of older devices. By sheer numbers, almost all iDevice users will immediately be able to use it).

* Passbook is software, not an interface, apples to apples please?
* Pay-Buy-Mobile and ISIS use NFC. Not optical, not bluetooth.
* Pay-Buy-Mobile is the standard that is nearly adopted, iphone or no iphone, and is already in use for many applications.
* ISIS is basically a done deal for the US.
* iPhone devices will NOT be able to use these point of purchase installations. These instalations already include many types of vending machines (transit pass installations are being rolled out across a certain European country by mid 2013... oh yea Germany! Already out in Austria, Italy, Sweden...)
* NFC is less of a security issue than leaving a blue-tooth device in searching or pairing mode, and it's extremely short range makes it even less of a security risk.
* NFC is more power efficient than ANY other option to date (INCLUDING QR SCANNING!)
* Code scanning is NOT source verifiable and so most likely will not ever be accepted as a banking transaction method.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 140):
In the end what counts is how useful it will be in practice. And I wouldn't be surprised if Passbook turned out to be a much bigger deal than NFC on a few scattered Android devices with lacking security to back it up.

Not just Android, Windows Mobile, Blackberry also have it... and almost EVERY manufacturer is rolling it out on the iphone competitors...
http://preview.tinyurl.com/9qn67ku

PBM has built in encryption over NFC, so I would be careful with the lacking security bit. Bar/QR codes are FAR from secure. Also NFC/ISIS is already certified for banking in the US for contactless transactions, so it can be rolled out at almost any time in the US.

[Edited 2012-09-12 13:35:16]


Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineplanewasted From Sweden, joined Jan 2008, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 142, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6662 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 140):
Battery life is actually excellent, particularly when actually using LTE and particularly for a compact and light smartphone.

Compared to the other most popular smartphones the battery life is bad, the worst even. There are no other popular phones in same size so that is hard to compare.
On other disappointment: LTE will not work in Sweden.  

Still think the iPhones are great phones! It just doesn't fit me, as I don't like to stick to one manufacturer with my stuff and don't care anything about brands and their image.


User currently offlinezckls04 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 1526 posts, RR: 4
Reply 143, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6624 times:

Quoting planewasted (Reply 142):
Compared to the other most popular smartphones the battery life is bad, the worst even.

Just wait until the Nokia Lumia comes out!

Oh hang on- you said popular.....



If you're not sure whether to use a piece of punctuation, it's best not to.
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 2024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 144, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6609 times:

I remember a year ago being ready to buy a potential iPhone 5 and not doing so because it didn't show. Fast forward a year and the phone that should have been unveiled last year arrives. Too late Apple. You're falling way behind. This model does nothing for me. 4 inches isn't large enough. The battery life is terrible. A new, still-proprietary dock connector is disappointing and only would cost me more money. And a conitinued lack of expandable storage all means this phone is not even close to being competitive for me. My decision is Motorola or Samsung in the coming months.

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 145, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6570 times:

Quoting planewasted (Reply 139):
For example great battery life, that's something Apple has been good at with other products.

My experience has been that the iPhone battery is actually very good. Android standby times are usually quoted with all of the accessories (WiFi, Bluetooth, GPS, etc.) turned off. My Samsung CHARGE blew through its battery in as little as six hours of standby if LTE, WiFi, Bluetooth, and GPS were all left on. My iPhone 4 will give me a few days of standby with all of these services turned on. When I set it to Airplane mode, its standby life is almost indefinite.

Quoting aznmadsci (Reply 135):
Is that a precursor of the AA-US merger and the new AA joining Star?

You noticed that, too?  

Anyway, I also like the positioning of the headphone jack to the bottom of the phone. At first it doesn't seem to make sense, but it actually makes a lot of sense. If you're putting the phone in your pocket, it doesn't matter whether it's right-side up or upside-down. But if you're putting it in a car mount to use as a GPS, then the charging cable on the current phone comes out the bottom and the 1/8" audio cable comes out the top. Awkward. The new setup will mean that both cables come from the bottom, which will actually be helpful.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 133):

Shattering the earth is on the agenda not that frequently even at Apple, but I'd say with the Apple II, Macintosh, iPod, iTunes, iPhone and iPad they've managed quite a few more breakthroughs than your ordinary hardware manufacturer, wouldn't you say?

Don't forget PowerBook! The idea to make it open like a notebook and to put the keyboard at the top of the lower section with a trackpad or trackball on the bottom of the lower section had never been done prior to PowerBook. Within a year, it was the standard layout for all laptops.

Apple is a master of product design. Say what you will about them, but product design is their forte.


User currently offlineWolbo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 146, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6553 times:

Let's put the battery life into perspective, the stand-by time is still worse than the two generations old iPhone 4. So according to Apple we must not find stand-by time very important.

Don't get me wrong, it looks like a fine phone and it will sell like crazy but it has nothing unexpected or even vaguely exciting compared to the competition. Apple caught up with today's leading phones. Nothing bad about that but there used to be a time when that was not good enough for Apple.


User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 147, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6555 times:

Boooring. Apple has stopped innovating and they are now only updating.
What will all the pro 3,5" display people think of the new iphone now?
The same old iOS look and feel. Yes there are some nice updates to it but that too are only updates but no real innovation.

If you want innovation, go for the Lumia 920. I can't wait till it's released. I'll get one of those fatboy pillows for the wireless charger  


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 148, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6554 times:



Quoting planewasted (Reply 142):
Compared to the other most popular smartphones the battery life is bad, the worst even. There are no other popular phones in same size so that is hard to compare.

Really? As stated above, the actual, real-life battery endurance is quite good for the iPhone(s). Particularly since I generally tend to sleep for a few hours every night, I've never run out of charge so far. But requirements may of course differ according to usage styles.

I charge it every two to three, sometimes four days with 3G and WiFi always on and active use varying.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 144):
I remember a year ago being ready to buy a potential iPhone 5 and not doing so because it didn't show. Fast forward a year and the phone that should have been unveiled last year arrives. Too late Apple.

Oh? So where was the power-efficient LTE chipset that was supposed to power it back then? All the other manufacturers don't seem to have been able to come up with one either.

Meanwhile my iPhone 4S keeps working beautifully and will continue to do so for at least another year.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 145):
Anyway, I also like the positioning of the headphone jack to the bottom of the phone. At first it doesn't seem to make sense, but it actually makes a lot of sense.

The iPod Touch has had it that way all along, since it didn't need a larger speaker and microphone assembly at the bottom and it is indeed quite a bit more practical than the iPhone arrangement up to this point.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 145):
Don't forget PowerBook!

Ah, right. Forgot that one.

Quoting Wolbo (Reply 146):
Let's put the battery life into perspective, the stand-by time is still worse than the two generations old iPhone 4. So according to Apple we must not find stand-by time very important.

How many people, do you think, actually run into the end of their iPhone's battery charge, and how often?

For me it's more an issue of whether I happen to notice that this is a "charging day", and that issue actually gets worse the longer it lasts. Charged at night I doubt that many people will actually find a problem with its standby time, particularly since that is actually realistic and not with everything shut off manually.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 147):
Boooring. Apple has stopped innovating and they are now only updating.

Updating a successful product successfully is far from easy and can take quite a bit of innovation.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 147):
What will all the pro 3,5" display people think of the new iphone now?

This one appreciates very much that they keep prioritizing single-handed operation, which should still work reasonably well with the new display. I would see it as a major setback if I always had to free both hands just to operate my phone.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 147):
The same old iOS look and feel. Yes there are some nice updates to it but that too are only updates but no real innovation.

Again: Superficial changes do not automatically equate innovation.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 147):
If you want innovation, go for the Lumia 920.

That's also "just" a second-generation model of the Windows Phone line with "minimal" changes to the original by your reckoning.

[Edited 2012-09-12 14:49:37]

User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 149, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6546 times:

There is the traditional video on the new iPhone - some interesting bits, especially on the work done on fit & finish.

I believe that this one is going to be a huge seller. If I didn't have a 4S I would be putting an order in when the initial rush slows down.


User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 150, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6538 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 148):
. I would see it as a major setback if I always had to free both hands just to operate my phone.

A major setback is the fact that you still need to take your gloves off when using your iPhone. Not so with the Lumia 920  
Quoting Klaus (Reply 148):
That's also "just" a second-generation model of the Windows Phone line with "minimal" changes to the original by your reckoning.

Not true.
Much better camera than the iphone 5. Especially in dark areas.
Pureview technology
Puremotion HD+ with clearblack display is much better in sunlight and readable even in the brightest sunligt.
Better battery performance than iPhone 5
Wireless charging
Floating lens tech

[Edited 2012-09-12 14:58:27]

User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11583 posts, RR: 52
Reply 151, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6528 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 147):
Boooring. Apple has stopped innovating and they are now only updating.

As a baseline for this comment, what would you say were the major innovations for the Galaxy S-III?



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User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 152, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6534 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 151):
As a baseline for this comment, what would you say were the major innovations for the Galaxy S-III?

I am not a Galaxy owner. But the SGSIII was also just an update.

But the reason why I said that it was boring was because Apple used to innovate the most. Now they are simply relying on old innovations like other companies.


User currently offlineKlaus From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 21522 posts, RR: 53
Reply 153, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6516 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 150):
A major setback is the fact that you still need to take your gloves off when using your iPhone. Not so with the Lumia 920

If I encountered that as a problem often enough it might be, but I don't, so it isn't.

Nice feature, but not decisive on its own.

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 150):
Not true.
Much better camera than the iphone 5. Especially in dark areas.
Pureview technology
Puremotion HD+ with clearblack display is much better in sunlight and readable even in the brightest sunligt.
Better battery performance than iPhone 5
Wireless charging

You are aware that this is exactly the level of upgrades every major phone model routinely gets, including the iPhone 5 right now? (For many users the compact size and light weight of the iPhone 5 will easily trump battery endurance figures which are a) based on very different settings and b) utterly irrelevant to them in real life as long as the iPhone solidly makes it through a full day, which it routinely does.)

Either both are "boring" or neither of them is – but their upgrades are quite similar in their extent, which is somewhat unsurprising in the same field based on identical or related technologies.


User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 154, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6513 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 153):
If I encountered that as a problem often enough it might be, but I don't, so it isn't.

Nice feature, but not decisive on its own.

Fair enough  
Quoting Klaus (Reply 153):
You are aware that this is exactly the level of upgrades every major phone model routinely gets, including the iPhone 5 right now? (For many users the compact size and light weight of the iPhone 5 will easily trump battery endurance figures which are a) based on very different settings and b) utterly irrelevant to them in real life as long as the iPhone solidly makes it through a full day, which it routinely does.)

This may be, but I believe that if we were to compare the display of the Lumia 920 with any of its current competitors, the Lumia 920 would blow the others away. I agree that the iPhone 5 has a really nice design, while it looks like the previous generations. Some people may be tired of it, others will be happy about the fact that its exterior has only been changed slightly.

But at least there is a good alternative now.


User currently offlineAsturias From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 2156 posts, RR: 16
Reply 155, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6507 times:

Quoting Klaus (Reply 153):
If I encountered that as a problem often enough it might be, but I don't, so it isn't.

AKA you're using it wrong! 

Being able to use gloves and the phone at the same time is a major benefit to quite a few users who go outside during the cold winter and care to cover their hands.

I wouldn't say it's an innovation, since it was readily available on all phones until the touchscreen phones came along, but it certainly is a welcome return of that 'feature'.



Tonight we fly
User currently onlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2648 posts, RR: 17
Reply 156, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6495 times:
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Simply put, because they will make a boatload of extra money now since people will have to buy all brand new accessories.



Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
The iPhone 4 was mostly an external upgrade (new shell, Retina Display etc.) with few internal changes ("tick"), the 4S was the matching internal upgrade (massive performance increase, doubled storage etc.) without external changes ("tock").

The late 2012 model (likely not to carry the "5" designation) is again an external upgrade first and foremost (new, thinner shell again, taller display, new dock connector) but likely with no major internal changes (probably just a somewhat enhanced A5 as in the 4S, unchanged storage).

And herein lies my problem with Apple. Why make an external change one year, then internal the next? Why can't you just improve everything in one year instead of half assing it and then sugar coating it? Why always make a product which technologically is behind the curve, yet market it as being in front of the curve? Instead they force the mostly sheep minded public to believe that each new iPhone is the best thing since sliced bread, when in fact there's only some mediocre changes...as we can see here with the iphone5 and as we saw with the iphone 4S.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
Given the relatively low user satisfaction with the competing systems and the much higher attrition rates there

Please show me some numbers on use satisfaction and attrition rates. I know people both Apple and non-Apple who are not happy and have jumped ship respectively.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 20):
Huh? What are you talking about? I've not had a single Apple product "shatter" on me ever

Yes but that is YOU. They certainly shatter for many others. Just because Apple is so perfect for YOU doesn't mean it is a valid argument you can use for why the company as a whole never wrong, as you have implied for years.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 41):
I also really want to know why Apple is changing the USB port. They have to know that they are going to cheese a lot of people off, right?
Quoting Klaus (Reply 57):
And? The original statement to which I was responding was a polemic claim about the presumably "disappointed" reaction of the public to the 4S (for some reason not borne out by record sales) to which I responded with sarcasm about the claim, not its poster.

A majority of the people I know who upgraded to the 4S were disappointed. First, because Siri was massively overhyped, and in practice does not work very well. Second, because the other new features weren't really anything spectacular. This of course doesn't speak for the market as a whole, but it is at least some measure. I'm also curious to know how you know what these "record sales" are since Apple does not release the volume of units that they have sold??

Quoting Revelation (Reply 60):
Klaus has indeed pointed out things Apple has done wrong or could do better, and things that other companies have done well.

In the many years I have occasionally stumbled onto an Apple thread, I have never seen Klaus say anything about Apple outside of how great they are. I do think he is a very smart and knowledgeable person, who knows his stuff though. And I respect that. I just think his arguments often come off as subjective and with a hint of fanboyism. Take it with a grain of salt.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 125):
Apple was never part of the problem – they had always used standard Firewire on the first iPod and beginning with the second iPod standard USB connectors and chargers for all their mobile devices

"Standard" USB connector in Apple's world. Nobody else uses their docking connection. Once again forcing their customers to fork over more money for proprietary accessories. USB was, then miniUSB was, and now microUSB is the industry standard not just in phones but in general...not Apple's plugs.

User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 157, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6487 times:

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 156):
"Standard" USB connector in Apple's world. Nobody else uses their docking connection. Once again forcing their customers to fork over more money for proprietary accessories. USB was, then miniUSB was, and now microUSB is the industry standard not just in phones but in general...not Apple's plugs.

It does not follow. If I have an iPhone, then I need an iPhone connector and I do not need a microUSB connector. So I do not need to fork over "more money." I need to fork over no matter what kind of phone I am buying.

The only place I am going to need to fork over more money is replacing my car charger and other chargers for the new phone. However, once that has gone standard for Apple devices, I won't need for fork over again.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11583 posts, RR: 52
Reply 158, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6481 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 152):
I am not a Galaxy owner. But the SGSIII was also just an update.

Your credibility goes up when you say that, so good on ya. But why criticize Apple for just an update when its competitors are in your words, just updating also?



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User currently onlinesovietjet From Bulgaria, joined Mar 2003, 2648 posts, RR: 17
Reply 159, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6460 times:
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Quoting DocLightning (Reply 157):
The only place I am going to need to fork over more money is replacing my car charger and other chargers for the new phone. However, once that has gone standard for Apple devices, I won't need for fork over again.

Correct, once you buy it once that is it....until they change it. Which is what they just did. So that you have to buy all new things. If they already had made everyone buy their Apple connectors like you have, making the change is largely a scheme to make a significant profit. We all know that accessories have the highest margins.

Quoting D L X (Reply 158):
Your credibility goes up when you say that, so good on ya. But why criticize Apple for just an update when its competitors are in your words, just updating also?

Personally, I think making the update is fine and dandy no matter what the company. What annoys me about Apple, is that they do a non-major update just like many others. Yet they purposefully parade around, market it, and have fancy ceremonies pretending that it is in fact something groundbreaking. When it's not. And from there stem your apple fanboys and fanatics...which will buy anything apple makes just because it has the logo and not because it is actually useful, innovative, cost-effective or the best decision for them.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11583 posts, RR: 52
Reply 160, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6449 times:

Quoting sovietjet (Reply 159):
What annoys me about Apple, is that they do a non-major update just like many others. Yet they purposefully parade around, market it, and have fancy ceremonies pretending that it is in fact something groundbreaking. When it's not. And from there stem your apple fanboys and fanatics

Ahhhhh.

So what you're really saying is that you don't like the fanboys, and by extension, that makes you dislike Apple. Because let's face it: they are hardly different from any other major company except in their contemporary comparative success.



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User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2484 posts, RR: 24
Reply 161, posted (2 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6450 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 158):

Your credibility goes up when you say that, so good on ya. But why criticize Apple for just an update when its competitors are in your words, just updating also?


Only because this thread is about Apple. Had it been about the SGS3, it might have been the same. That said, there are always huge expectations regarding the next iPhone, so it seems like Apple has to work twice as hard as others not to disappoint.