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Man Kicked Off Flight For Wearing Anti-TSA Shirt  
User currently offlineryu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 487 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 9369 times:

Someone was kicked off a DL flight at BUF for wearing an anti-TSA T-shirt, even after submitting through secondary screening!

Quote:
Said @Delta," it's not you, it's the shirt." Yet changing the shirt wasn't good enough and pilot refused to let me board.
http://arijitvsdelta.blogspot.co.uk/

Is this going too far?

[Edited 2012-08-22 22:16:46]

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlinetugger From United States of America, joined exactly 8 years ago today! , 5251 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9331 times:

Quoting ryu2 (Thread starter):
Is this going too far?

Put simply: Yes.

But I am sure someone can over complicate it and note that this is a public space and you should be aware that some people will take umbrage to whatever comments you make make (with clothing or otherwise). Or that it is a private company and they can do what they feel best serves their customers, etc. Or that the captain is the last and ultimate authority and can do this if he (or she) feels it is best for the flight. Or any of many other complexities one might think of.

But truly and honestly, yes it is an over reaction however we seems to like overreacting nowadays.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2880 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9287 times:

Quoting ryu2 (Thread starter):
Is this going too far?

You bet it is, this is not what America stands for, sometimes freedom is expressed in ways other people don't like, but the freedom to express your opinions is protected by the Constitution. Unless the guy endangered himself or someone else, there was no reason to keep him from flying.



Rule number One, NEVER underestimate the other guys greed
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6942 posts, RR: 18
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9230 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 1):
Quoting ryu2 (Thread starter):
Is this going too far?

Put simply: Yes.

Yes definitely, unless he was being overly unruly. IIRC the naked protesters in the TSA weren't kicked off their flight (at least the one I witnessed wasn't)


I hope this guy takes action against DL



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2607 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9174 times:

This was discussed yesterday but the thread was deleted or moved. I cannot find it anymore.

I am not sure if you sure if you saw the T-shirt in full size and the words written on it. I find it very Strange to walk into an int'l airport in the USA with such a T-shirt. I am convinced he was looking for trouble or wanted to kind of test the authorities.


User currently offlinechecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1071 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8922 times:

I'd say your looking for trouble walking into an airport wearing this t-shirt. As a law enforcement officer, I do disagree how they were handled after being denied the flight, but wearing this shirt? Come on...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-445bjHW9ug4/UDM-wO1gkzI/AAAAAAAAB-k/HWggoK8HsEA/s1600/ZOMG.jpg


User currently offlineshufflemoomin From Denmark, joined Jun 2010, 467 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 8907 times:

I think it was going a bit far to refuse him boarding, but we seem to be seeing more and more of this type of thing, and for some reason it's almost entirely contained within the US. However, I think that wearing this T-shirt to a US airport when you clearly know how they react, is someone looking and hoping for trouble. It's no different than approaching the Police while wearing a T-shirt reading "f**k the police" and not expecting trouble.

User currently offlinehypercott From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8852 times:

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 6):
I think it was going a bit far to refuse him boarding, but we seem to be seeing more and more of this type of thing, and for some reason it's almost entirely contained within the US. However, I think that wearing this T-shirt to a US airport when you clearly know how they react, is someone looking and hoping for trouble. It's no different than approaching the Police while wearing a T-shirt reading "f**k the police" and not expecting trouble.

The essence of free speech is that you should not have to expect any trouble by *passively* wearing such a T-shirt. No matter what or where or when you wear it. Period. It's the law, the constitutional law.


User currently offlinecygnuschicago From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8790 times:

Quoting hypercott (Reply 7):
The essence of free speech is that you should not have to expect any trouble by *passively* wearing such a T-shirt. No matter what or where or when you wear it. Period. It's the law, the constitutional law.

Oh really? Okay, on your next flight yell out "bomb!", and then claim you were executing your right to free speech. When you get out of jail in 20 years time, come back here and tell us how that worked out.

This guy was an attention-seeker looking for trouble. He got it. End of story.



If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2607 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8757 times:

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 6):
but we seem to be seeing more and more of this type of thing, and for some reason it's almost entirely contained within the US

To me that has nothing to do with the USA. As someone else said yesterday (I think it was PanHam) I fully agree, if I would have to sit next to this guy I would ask the stewardess the give me another seat.

Is this the same guy that was arrested, you know, this guy with that ugly name Poop or something like this.


User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 8740 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 8709 times:

It was me saying that. I would not like to sit net to "Poop".

There are some key words which should not be said and not be printed on a t-shirt while using air services. High on that list is "Bomb" and "Terrorist" , both show up on that T-shirt.

"Gonna kill us all" is the icing on the cake.

As much as I am outspoken for liberty, free speech, tolerant and liberal as i am, but this is going too far and anyone who is wearing such a shirt is aksing for trouble.

I do agree that this case was handled stupidly by police, excessive questioning the guy was not necessary.

Real terrorists do not advertise their intentions on their chest.



I'm not fishing for compliments
User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1745 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 8486 times:
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Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):
As much as I am outspoken for liberty, free speech, tolerant and liberal as i am, but this is going too far and anyone who is wearing such a shirt is aksing for trouble.
Quoting N14AZ (Reply 4):
I am convinced he was looking for trouble or wanted to kind of test the authorities.
Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 6):
However, I think that wearing this T-shirt to a US airport when you clearly know how they react, is someone looking and hoping for trouble. It's no different than approaching the Police while wearing a T-shirt reading "f**k the police" and not expecting trouble.

He looked for trouble or at least some sort of attention and got what he was looking for.

It's not as if he just grabbed the shirt on top of the pile in his home and unfortunately it was this one on the day he was flying.


User currently offlineusflyer msp From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2026 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8429 times:

Quoting hypercott (Reply 7):

The essence of free speech is that you should not have to expect any trouble by *passively* wearing such a T-shirt. No matter what or where or when you wear it. Period. It's the law, the constitutional law.

Free speech laws do not apply. The Government did not deny him boarding, Delta did.


User currently offlinetype-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4843 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8348 times:

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 11):
He looked for trouble or at least some sort of attention and got what he was looking for.

It's not as if he just grabbed the shirt on top of the pile in his home and unfortunately it was this one on the day he was flying.

I agree with this too. Anyone with half a thimble of common sense would know that this shirt would probably get a reaction simply by wearing it. I would say that simply by wearing it he was attracting attention to himself in a most negative way.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10):
There are some key words which should not be said and not be printed on a t-shirt while using air services. High on that list is "Bomb" and "Terrorist" , both show up on that T-shirt.

Exactly!



Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
User currently offlineflyingsux From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 50 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8322 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 13):
I agree with this too. Anyone with half a thimble of common sense would know that this shirt would probably get a reaction simply by wearing it. I would say that simply by wearing it he was attracting attention to himself in a most negative way.

I'd say he was hoping something like this would happen - Now he has reason to sue DL, TSA, and the State of NY... Idiot!


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5318 posts, RR: 30
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 8271 times:

Just like a restaurant can have a no shoes, no shirt,, no service policy, a private business can have rules of conduct and decorum for its customers. A business has a right to refuse service if it thinks allowing it will adversely affect other customers.

I'm all for free speech...but just as some places require a suit and tie for service, Delta requires shirts that don't say bomb, terrorist and gonna kill us all.

It's not a first amendment issue. He's free to stand outside the airport all day proudly displaying his cleverness. Delta is under no obligation to cater to him.



What the...?
User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1962 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7663 times:

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 11):
He looked for trouble or at least some sort of attention and got what he was looking for.

It's not as if he just grabbed the shirt on top of the pile in his home and unfortunately it was this one on the day he was flying.

Exactly, the guy is the type that I see way too frequently lately. Trolling the the public, trying to offend people for no other reason than because of their "right to free speech".

Quoting cygnuschicago (Reply 8):
This guy was an attention-seeker looking for trouble. He got it. End of story.

The shirt he wore on the second day pretty much confirms that. Bright color, bordering on being offensive. It's not like that is the only type of shirt available supporting the fight against that particular disease.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 12):
Free speech laws do not apply.

A lot of Americans have no idea what "freedom of speech" really means.


User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1907 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7596 times:

Quoting cygnuschicago (Reply 8):
This guy was an attention-seeker looking for trouble. He got it. End of story.

Bingo. Can't fix Stupid.



- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3905 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7550 times:

How could free speach as a constitutional right apply between two private individuals as a pax and an airline? If it did, there would no such thing as defamation or libel as you could always pull the free speech card. The captain was simply exercising the powers of his company in relation to the contract of carriage. Now whether the termination of the contract of carriage by the captain amounts to a breach of contract is a wholly different story. And of course we can, leaving all legal considerations aside, also discuss whether the captain should have taken a more relaxed view.

User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22303 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7494 times:

Quoting silentbob (Reply 16):
A lot of Americans have no idea what "freedom of speech" really means.

Pot? Kettle? Freedom of speech means freedom from GOVERNMENT interference. After all, the First Amendment begins "Congress shall make no law . . ." (before another lawyer corrects me, yes I do know that the First Amendment also applies to the other branches and to state and local governments via the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments and case law).

Freedom of speech does not mean that Delta cannot regulate speech on board in whatever way it sees fit. There's an episode of On the Fly where WN threatens to deny a passenger on a flight to BHM for wearing a shirt that says something like "Auburn sucks." That's legal, that's constitutional, and that's probably smart.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offline26point2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 786 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks ago) and read 7321 times:

People like this guy are desperate for attention and often use poor judgement to get it. Read his blog...pretty clear he is an attention hore. I really wish Americans could understand what the Constitutiion gives them the right to do and more importantly what it doesn't give them the right to do. Funny how people think the Constitution will protect them from acting like a fool.

We went through this recently in my part of the country with the "Open Carry" nut jobs who thought it would be a good idea to demonstrate their "Constitutional Rights" by openly carrying, legally, their guns into the shopping mall. Idiots soon found out that Constitutional Rights end at the door of the mall.


User currently offlinesoon7x7 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6391 times:

Quoting silentbob (Reply 16):
A lot of Americans have no idea what "freedom of speech" really means.

Think it would be better said...A lot of Americans have no idea what it is to loose Free Speech.


User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 4970 posts, RR: 18
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6280 times:

Quoting cygnuschicago (Reply 8):
This guy was an attention-seeker looking for trouble. He got it. End of story.

Oh, welcome to my RU list! I was looking for a succinct way to express this, and you did it first.

The guy didn't get up in the morning, pull this shirt of his pile of t-shirts and just happen to put it on. [EDIT: Holy same idea, Batman! Poster above had the same wording. Good point, Sir. Sorry to seem like copycat.]

Free speech, even in the US, isn't absolute. I think your example of "try shouting 'bomb' on a plane and see what happens" is a very nice adaptation of the famous US Supreme Court case that used shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre as an example of speech that legally could be restricted and punished.

Moreover, free speech does not mean speech without consequence. Private persons and companies are absolutely free to mete out consequences for speech of certain types. "Fighting words" may give someone a right to punch me in the face. If a person wants to use racial epithets in everyday speech, I have the right not to employ him, and he is minimally-protected if members of the targeted group want to kick his tuckus.

A rowdy bar that I used to frequent posted a sign that said very directly (at my suggestion) something that other places said less directly. It said, "We reserve the right to refuse service to YOU." The doorman would point at it if any person being a jerk questioned the bar's authority to exclude or eject him. Delta was well wthin its rights, common carrier or not, to exclude this moron from its flight.

I am amused by the poster who says that this kind of speech restriction only happens in the US. Time to adjust your world view. I'm pretty sure the people of Gambia, whose president has proclaimed that they are going to execute everyone on death row in the whole country in the next month, wouldn't wear a t-shirt that says, "Screw the President". North Korea? Even Russia? Indonesia? Singapore? So give it a rest.

[EDIT: Reading carefully through the rest of this thread, I am just SO DELIGHTED to see how many of our a.net members have a firm grasp about what our very-special constitution protects, and what it doesn't.]

[Edited 2012-08-23 11:03:11]

User currently offlineshufflemoomin From Denmark, joined Jun 2010, 467 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6085 times:

Before anyone jumps down my throat, this is a genuine question: Since so many Americans seem to hide behind the constitution and by all account, most don't understand it, my question is: is it taught in any capacity in school? Are Americans given any education on what it means or do they just hear things here and there and twist it to suit their own means?

User currently offlineYankeesFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6092 times:

Serves him right. He got what he deserved.


I hope you stand by your promises Obama. I will be really mad if you don't
25 flyingsux : It was when I went to school - Even if it isn't now or if this guy didn't learn about it, seems to me he took extra time and care in making sure he w
26 wjcandee : There's no uniform curriculum in American public primary school or secondary school. Texas has uniform textbooks, but all teachers don't teach to the
27 NW1852 : I'm trying to look at this from both sides. Was this guy instigating? I think a little. Did the TSA, Delta and transit police over react? Again a litt
28 robsaw : There was a good editorial in Canadian newspaper that I read a couple of days ago and you more or less have it right, given that US/Canada have simil
29 srbmod : Several years ago, a Canadian friend of mine was flying to Las Vegas and wore a t-shirt that said "I Hate People". At the airport in Canada, it got hi
30 fr8mech : In junior high and high school, I seem to recall discussing it a bit, but not in any real depth. My college American History class covered the US Con
31 dc9northwest : I have to agree, I dislike the TSA but I never display that at the airport. I am nice towards them, it's just their job; that doesn't mean they're ba
32 MD11Engineer : Nope. I would sit beside him, but I would watch him like a hawk and if he did anything suspicious, he would be in an armlock. Jan
33 flymia : Completely different, a police officer is a state actor (the government) the airline captain and delta are not. They can do whatever they want. As st
34 Post contains images StarAC17 : Didn't WN throw off women who were dressed in skimpy outfits, I would have much preferred sitting next to them . As said it has nothing to do with fr
35 Aesma : A lot of Americans seem to think free speech is an universal notion, well, in the form it has in the US, it's unique. And we non US citizens with a l
36 aa757first : This is clearly an overreaction, but I agree with Delta's right to exclude passengers from their flights at their own discretion for valid reasons. I'
37 Hywel : I'm gonna buy this t-shirt. Although I'll never try wearing it for a flight, just when I'm around the house etc.
38 Post contains images Flighty : We have free speech as long as you don't insult the intelligence community, the police (especially NYPD), the TSA, the IRS... because we might all be
39 Cubsrule : While it is off-topic and probably not the place to get in to this, that's almost assuredly not true both because of Delta's status as a common carri
40 Maverick623 : Bingo. Also, the captain does have "final authority" to deny boarding on his airplane, but that doesn't mean he can't be held responsible for that de
41 srbmod : If you don't like it, drive or take the bus. Airlines are privately owned and operated companies and like any privately owned and operated establishm
42 EA CO AS : If I'm the Captain - or a DL Supervisor - my position to Mr. Guha is a simple one; you don't have the right to make the other 149 customers aboard my
43 Maverick623 : And what shall I do when those pesky little rules get expanded to the bus and train system? Yes, but once you agree to leave, they can't call over th
44 Post contains images EA CO AS : They can't if those bus lines or train lines are publicly owned. If they're privately-owned, however you're up the same creek. If this has been your
45 srbmod : Non threatening? Not everyone can clearly see sarcasm and parody, especially from a distance. There is a time and a place for civil disobedience and
46 Maverick623 : AFAIK, all long-distance buses are privately owned, and intercity rail travel in the US is practically nonexistent outside of the NE, California, and
47 EA CO AS : That was customer service, for the many other customers who were clearly uncomfortable with this man and made a point of telling Delta of their conce
48 Maverick623 : Please cite where any passengers made any comments to anybody about the shirt. Yep. It's no secret that I think those "boundaries" (which are not bou
49 TheCommodore : Yeah, "over a t-shirt that was removed on request" Why even push the boundaries with the authorities ? The guy's a twat, and was looking for trouble
50 Post contains links EA CO AS : my choice of attire was inappropriate and had caused serious consternation amongst multiple individuals, and that ultimately “It's not you, it's the
51 fr8mech : I've no problem pushing boundaries with authorities, so long as it's kept legal. As I understand it, the guy was booted by Delta and/or the captain.
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