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Bin Laden Raid Book To Be Published-Dishonorable?  
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5797 posts, RR: 10
Posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2633 times:

So I am sure that many already know a book has been written "anonymously" of the raid that killed Osama bin Laden. It was written by one of the SEAL Team 6 members of the raid. Of course just hours after it was introduced the author of "No Easy Day" was unmasked as Matt Bissonnette, a retired Chief of SEAL Team 6.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...ount-idd-could-face-legal-trouble/

My question is whether it dishonors the SEAL teams that this was written and published by one of their own. To me he is being dishonorable and just looking to make a buck (even though there are claims that profits will go toward charity). I believe that when you join these teams you do not do anything to expose your team. And this guy just dropped the pants on SEAL Team 6. I understand that someone has vetted it to remove national security stuff but I still think the members of such elite groups need to remain quiet about what they do.

What are your thoughts on it?

Tugg


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline9MMPQ From Netherlands, joined Nov 2011, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2604 times:

Does he dishonours the SEAL teams ? I don't think so, any dishonour is his own. I do have mixed feelings about the book being released on September 11th though. I get the ''link'' but on the other hand i kind of feel it's a cheap way of gaining maximal exposure.

You do have to wonder what he was thinking though ? Besides possible concerns for his own personal safety he couldn't have seriously believed his real identity would not come out & i'm certain if there's any bone to pick ( even after any sensitive information would have been taken out the book ) about him releasing his story the proper authorities will probably go after him.

I guess this man found he got offered his price in $ & he caved.



I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8483 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (2 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2591 times:

I believe we should wait until the book is released and find out what is in it.

If the guy was good enough to serve as a SEAL then he's good enough to be given the benefit of the doubt.

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 1):
I guess this man found he got offered his price in $ & he caved.

I understand that a chunk of the money is going to charity.

Again, let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt.


User currently offlineWolbo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 497 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2537 times:

Not really surprising given all those SAS books that have come out in the past. Seems standard practice nowadays and almost feels like they have the book deal covered before they go on the raid...

Not sure I would want to be in Matt Bissonnette's shoes, having to look over your shoulder for the rest of your life can't be fun.


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13202 posts, RR: 16
Reply 4, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2532 times:

The President ought to call, as Commander-in-Chief, for the arrest of this 'writer' and cause him to face a courts martial. His book shoud not be published and indeed the Justice Dept. should take action on the publishers to ban it's distribution. All monies he got should be turned over to the Government. The publication should have been required to clear it with the CIA and 'Pentagon' officials before it went to publication. This publication is not protected by the 1st Amendment. Already too many have disclosed too much, including in the WH as to the process of the Assassination of bin-Laden, in part done to prevent the hassles from 'druthers'. I wonder if the alleged writers gonna like looking over his shoulder in fear for him and his family may be targets of terrorists.

User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

Has anyone who is critical of the book being written actually read it?

Does it call into question the courage, training, equipping or dedication of the team?

Does it expose anything that counters the official version of events?

Does it reveal that the man feeding the sharks wasn't OBL?

Does it confirm that OBL is alive and well, living in a condo in Florida?

If it is just a book about how they flew into a compound and shot a few people before making off with a body (assuming OBL was actually dead) then it is simply the sort of stuff you will see portrayed by Hollywood.

Now if it actually contradicts the official history, I can see why some people would not like to see it published.

I can understand that some people may be sensitive to the date of release but I wonder how much of the opposition stems from the fact that the release is occurring during the run up to the elections and is a reminder that the actual raid occurred under Obama's watch and not Bush's.


User currently offlineJetsgo From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 3086 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2518 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 4):

Have you actually read the book? What crime has been committed again? Oh, right, we don't know because again we haven't read it. At best, there is a mere reminder from the Pentagon that it is not vetted and cannot disclose any classified material. I find your calls for his immediate arrest and court martial completely baseless and downright strange. I have no problem eating my words if it turns out what he has written is punishable, but until then you might want to adjust that tin hat.

[Edited 2012-08-23 18:44:12]


Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
User currently offlinebestwestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7313 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2483 times:

I'm for this book, unless there isn't a political message under it. If so, launching the book on 9-11 is a thundering disrespect to the American nation.


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2457 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 4):
The President ought to call, as Commander-in-Chief, for the arrest of this 'writer' and cause him to face a courts martial. His book shoud not be published and indeed the Justice Dept. should take action on the publishers to ban it's distribution. All monies he got should be turned over to the Government. The publication should have been required to clear it with the CIA and 'Pentagon' officials before it went to publication. This publication is not protected by the 1st Amendment. Already too many have disclosed too much, including in the WH as to the process of the Assassination of bin-Laden, in part done to prevent the hassles from 'druthers'. I wonder if the alleged writers gonna like looking over his shoulder in fear for him and his family may be targets of terrorists.

What about the leaks coming out of DC about this raid? Do you find and arrest the people responsible for them as well?


User currently offline9MMPQ From Netherlands, joined Nov 2011, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2407 times:

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 2):
If the guy was good enough to serve as a SEAL then he's good enough to be given the benefit of the doubt.

I doubt the SEALs serving alongside him on this particular mission would agree so easily. If he's happy with the risk to have his identity become public knowledge that's one thing but he must have realised it also creates the potential that the identities of his former teammates could end up on the street if others choose to go after the story further & i think that's something that's just not done.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 2):
I understand that a chunk of the money is going to charity.

Again, let's give the guy the benefit of the doubt.

Even that statement is wide open to several possibilities as it's only been mentioned now by his publicists after the media jumped on them. Is it a form of damage control or was it really in the plans before they gained the media attention they now have ? Is the money coming out of his own share or that of the publicists ? Plus, i'm wondering if those charities supporting SEAL families would be inclined to take money from someone who has broken the ranks ?

There's a lot of shades of grey in all of this but simply giving him the benefit of the doubt is perhaps a little bit too much to ask right now. We'll have to wait & see what will happen but you can't help but feel the guy hasn't made the smartets move by doing this.



I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8965 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2350 times:

Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 1):
Does he dishonours the SEAL teams ?

Only if he makes claims about the SEALS doing things that would be dishonorable (Like what John Kerry did after coming back from Vietnam). We don't know yet.

Quoting Ken777 (Reply 2):
I believe we should wait until the book is released and find out what is in it.

If the guy was good enough to serve as a SEAL then he's good enough to be given the benefit of the doubt.

First time for everything - I agree with you. Any SEAL that's been at the pointy end of the stick would almost certainly appreciate the need for operational security, sources and methods etc - it would be shocking if he reveals information regarding tactics or technology that is not already available in a Tom Clancy novel. If he does, then he'll be in trouble, and rightfully so.

But we have in our country a serious problem with allowing leaks. The NYT publishing how we were capable of taping and locating GSM phones, for example (which previously were widely believed to be relatively secure), has certainly cost us much blood and treasure. The leaks after the Bin Laden raid were a disgrace.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineNoUFO From Germany, joined Apr 2001, 7966 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2283 times:

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 8):
What about the leaks coming out of DC about this raid?

Right. There is already a pretty detailed 9-page report online:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/08/110808fa_fact_schmidle



I support the right to arm bears
User currently offlinejohns624 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 957 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (2 years 4 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

Has anyone been to a bookstore lately? Half of the current military books out there are written by ex-SEAL's. The other half is written by ex-snipers. One hit the jackpot by being written by and ex-SEAL sniper.

User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2755 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2231 times:

The Obama administration already let the cat out of the bag. Might as well have someone give us the good details.


OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15839 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2224 times:

The way I see it, being a SEAL or some other special forces type is a bit like being president. Both are way underpaid for the time, risk, and work it takes to hold the job and if they can make up for some of that on the back end by writing a book, serving as a consultant to movies, etc. I'm okay with it. As long as it's thoroughly vetted for classified information and doesn't potentially put anyone at risk I don't have a problem with the story being told.

Quoting LMP737 (Reply 8):
What about the leaks coming out of DC about this raid? Do you find and arrest the people responsible for them as well?

Good luck arresting The Rock.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
it would be shocking if he reveals information regarding tactics or technology that is not already available in a Tom Clancy novel.

Clancy has had government types come ask him how he obtained certain information to which Clancy replied, truthfully from every indication, that it was just a logical guess.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1167 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2221 times:

The only thing I have to say to any member of DEVGRU that was on the mission to get OBL, is Thank You for your service and Bravo Zulu!! Every one of those SEALs, knew they may not come back.

SEAL Team 6  


User currently offlinesomething From United Kingdom, joined May 2011, 1633 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2214 times:

You people can't seriously believe the stuff you are afraid of.. can you?

Like you become a special forces agent and are free to chat about this once you go home? You can't even work for Emirates and freely write about your on the job experience online. What would make you believe the most confidential US government institution take a more leisurely approach to disclosure of information?

Each and every word of this book will have to be read and approved by a myriad of high ranking members of the US army.

Without having read any of these books, and with an incredible small interest in doing so in the future, I can still say with certainty that this book will be a drama/novel with the focus on entertainment. It will focus on the pressure of the mission, the meticulous preparation, the suspense, the risk, the considerations. But you won't find any juicy facts in the book that aren't already available. Though, one would assume that kinda goes without saying. Apparently not.



..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
User currently offlineMudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1167 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2190 times:

I once asked a friend that was on and ODA with 3rd SFG and another that is in CAG, does it bother them that SEALs get all the credit? Both of their responses were, you are not supposed to know what we do.

User currently onlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5742 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2181 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
Clancy has had government types come ask him how he obtained certain information to which Clancy replied, truthfully from every indication, that it was just a logical guess.

  

It always amazes me that people think that only big government and nameless military types can come up with great ideas.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineGEEZER From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 2165 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 10):
First time for everything - I agree with you. Any SEAL that's been at the pointy end of the stick would almost certainly appreciate the need for operational security, sources and methods etc - it would be shocking if he reveals information regarding tactics or technology that is not already available in a Tom Clancy novel. If he does, then he'll be in trouble, and rightfully so.

First......none of Clancy's books have been about the Seals;
Second........anyone interested in reading about Seal teams and their tactics have already been doing for years now, reading Richard Marcinko's novels about the Seals; for anyone not familiar with Dick Marcinco........he started Seal Team Six; (quite a while ago)

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 14):
Clancy has had government types come ask him how he obtained certain information to which Clancy replied, truthfully from every indication, that it was just a logical guess.

That only happened after Clancy's first book, "Hunt For Red October"; since then, Tom Clancy has been a regular visitor to the CIA at Langly.


[quote=something,reply=16]Like you become a special forces agent and are free to chat about this once you go home?

Special Forces don't have "agents"..............they only have "operators".............(and "operators" DON"T "chat".....

[quote=something,reply=16]Each and every word of this book will have to be read and approved by a myriad of high
ranking members of the US army.

Your obvious lack of knowledge of U.S Special Forces is mind-boggling ! The U.S. Army, (great as it is), has absolutely NOTHING to do with the U.S. Navy's Seal Teams !

( I'm sure you probably know much more about Shakespeare than I do )


While we're on the subject of "releasing classified information" pertaining to the Seals and their tactics on their OBL mission............our great "pretender-in-chief" has already "leaked" everything that could be leaked, all while trying to "take full credit" for HIS raid and capture of OBL .............so if you want to "hang" some one, that's the place to start.

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
User currently onlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5742 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2150 times:

Quoting GEEZER (Reply 19):
Second........anyone interested in reading about Seal teams and their tactics have already been doing for years now,

Also deserves a   

The SEALS, for lack of a better phrase, generally perform missions that are designed to eventually go public. Their tactics may have been somewhat fresh in the 70s and 80s, but they're hardly a surprise now.

(I am NOT implying that SEALS are anything less than some of the most capable fighters in the world, but that their mission is not to be clandestine).

So, in other words, there is little to actually leak in their missions, especially once they are completed. All the government-toppling super secret never-be-revealed missions are done by the CIA these days.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8965 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2126 times:

Have you seen the movie Act of Valor? They used active duty SEALS for some of the tactical scenes - simply because there was no way any actors could learn to move like they move and make it look real. I learned urban combat when I was in the military 20 years ago, and seeing that stuff in the film was pretty startling. Definitely not folks I want coming after me.


Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 22, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2104 times:

Quoting tugger (Thread starter):
My question is whether it dishonors the SEAL teams that this was written and published by one of their own.

Unfortunately for the past 25+ years to my direct knowledge, the SEAL organization has had many individual members who have sought to "cash-in" upon their experience and "inside information". This instance is nothing new - it has happened before - though this might be the most commercially profitable book.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 4):
The President ought to call, as Commander-in-Chief, for the arrest of this 'writer' and cause him to face a courts martial.

Apparently you've never served under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Because what you propose is illegal command influence - and guarantees that the person could never be convicted at a courts martial.

That said, exactly under which UCMJ article would you charge the Chief with a violation?

Another point is that people who accept certain levels of security clearances have to agree to a Security Review of anything they submit to be published. He apparently did not do so in this case. That might be a possible charge under the UCMJ.

Quoting GEEZER (Reply 19):
Richard Marcinko's novels about the Seals; for anyone not familiar with Dick Marcinco........he started Seal Team Six; (

Never terribly impressed by him when I worked with him. He was a publicity seeker when he was an O-3 and it got worse the higher he rose. The last Red Cell I worked with his team, he had us film over 40 hours of the operation, planning and tactics - which he frequently showed to unclassified audiences. My concerns that much of what we filmed should be Secret or higher were dismissed.

However, he did run some excellent ops. And most people in his teams were happy serving under him, though happy he went on almost no actual ops, just planning and control.

Marcinko faced a lot of the same type criticism when he turned to writing after he was forced to retire.


User currently offlineMudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1167 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (2 years 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2054 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 20):
So, in other words, there is little to actually leak in their missions, especially once they are completed. All the government-toppling super secret never-be-revealed missions are done by the CIA these days.

Bro, not to bust your balls, but who do you think runs Ops with the 3 letters, as they are referred to in the SOF community? CAG, DEV, ODAs, MARSOC etc. Read my last post. Why do you think the CIA and Blackwater USA/Xe/US Training center or whatever they go by now were so close? Many missions are performed by SOF Teams, or PMCs that they worked with when they were AD SOF.

As for the comment about why would SEAL Ops be reviewed by the US Army? Anyone know who is over CENTCOM right now?

[Edited 2012-08-25 14:02:32]

User currently offlineGEEZER From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 1479 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (2 years 4 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2017 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 20):
So, in other words, there is little to actually leak in their missions, especially once they are completed. All the government-toppling super secret never-be-revealed missions are done by the CIA these days.

This leads me to comment on what is apparently a very common misconception among most people, as pertains to how most of the U.S. intelligence is gathered; almost everyone "assumes" the CIA does "everything"; nothing could be farther from factual;

The CIA's entire annual budget is a mere "drop in the bucket" when compared to the biggest player in the game, the NSA

Read the 850 page book "Body of Secrets" (one of the very few books ever written about the NSA) and you'll see what I mean.

Charley



Stupidity: Doing the same thing over and over and over again and expecting a different result; Albert Einstein
25 DarkSnowyNight : Navy. I don't think he knew that either though. In any case, it's hard to believe the USN wouldn't have a lot to say about all that. Except for Witho
26 Post contains images Zentraedi : What's insane is how FOX news saw fit to expose his real name/identity and now Al Queda groups have put a hit out on him and his family. ...America's
27 pvjin : Nah I don't think there is anything dishonorable about telling a story about this mission. Even if it leaks some more info there is nothing wrong with
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