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2012 Republcan Party Convention - Tampa  
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5929 times:

Starting Monday, Aug. 27th and for 4 days, the political Circus comes to Tampa, Florida with the Republican Party Convention to confirm their Presidential and VP Candidates. While much of the Convention is well scripted, some things are not. This is why I have started this thread.

One major potential problem is what is now Hurricane Issac. Based on current tracks, it could make a real mess in Tampa, on Monday and Tuesday, even so much as cause a cancellation, delay or consolidation of events into the later days. This article discusses the potential problems of Issac:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/s...publican-convention-214010391.html

Then you have the FBI putting out all kinds of warnings about potential terror events, including from domestic, left-wing extremists 'anarchists' groups as well as protesters frustrated with limited access to the convention site, hotels, downtown areas to protest, even peacefully.

Of course, there will be the idiots who will get drunk, get caught with prostitutes, hand out with big time lobbyists getting their votes bought. You have controversial policy platform planks (like zero access to abortion), politicians with big mouths possibly scaring off voters and if Romney, Ryan or other speakers soar or crash in their speeches.

Let us discuss the circus in Tampa here, but keep it civil.   

148 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineWrenchBender From Canada, joined Feb 2004, 1779 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5914 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
Let us discuss the circus in Tampa here

Do we really have to ?

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
but keep it civil.

Fat chance............

WrenchBender



Silly Pilot, Tricks are for kids.......
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5908 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
One major potential problem is what is now Hurricane Issac. Based on current tracks, it could make a real mess in Tampa

New drinking game: take a drink every time a speaker tries to associate weathering the hurricane to surviving Obama's first term.   

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5871 times:

Issac seems to tracking slightly further west, most likely hitting the shore of Alabama, far western 'panhandle' Florida. Still the 'right' and stronger side of this storm will affect with at least heavy rains and higher tides the Tampa area.

Apparently Ann Romney's speech time at the convention has been shifted from what would have a the non-broadcast stations covered Monday night, to the covered Tuesday night, when NJ Gov. Christie will give the keynote speaker. Many pushed for this as it will help show Mitt's better side.


User currently offlinehelvknight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5858 times:

Just goes to show. With their agenda they can't even attract a female hurricane.   

User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8777 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5837 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 3):
Apparently Ann Romney's speech time at the convention has been shifted from what would have a the non-broadcast stations covered Monday night, to the covered Tuesday night, when NJ Gov. Christie will give the keynote speaker. Many pushed for this as it will help show Mitt's better side.

Never mind the fact that the major networks don't intend to provide much coverage of the GOP convention, not even the keynote address. But they are giving full prime-time coverage to the Democrat Party convention. We pretty much know what the Dem platform is - they've been in charge for 4 years. You would think that people might be more interested in what the opposition has to offer.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...miss-ann-romney-speech-132806.html

Of course there is no media bias...



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5831 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Never mind the fact that the major networks don't intend to provide much coverage of the GOP convention, not even the keynote address. But they are giving full prime-time coverage to the Democrat Party convention. We pretty much know what the Dem platform is - they've been in charge for 4 years. You would think that people might be more interested in what the opposition has to offer.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...miss-ann-romney-speech-132806.html

Of course there is no media bias...

Nope there isn't it's called Ratings. Fake news, CNN , and all the other cables will cover most of the converion.

The BIG networks, where real people are sick of the stupid bastards of politics, will have nice shows on.

The Big Networks are being consistant 3 hours of coverage of the Republican Convention, and 3 hours of the Democratic Convention. Fair and Balanced. For the rest of it, folks can tune into into the other networks.

Just because the GOP is bankrolling a 4 day convention to convince everyone that they haven't been taken over by the Tea Party and Social Conservative lunatics, doesn't mean everyone has to pay attention.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5821 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
Never mind the fact that the major networks don't intend to provide much coverage of the GOP convention

Apart from streaming everything online and three hours of prime time broadcast.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 5):
But they are giving full prime-time coverage to the Democrat Party convention

Actually the same three hours and online streaming.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8777 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5822 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 6):
The BIG networks, where real people are sick of the stupid bastards of politics, will have nice shows on.

Here is what they will be showing instead:

http://images.politico.com/global/2012/08/tvlistings.jpg

If you think any of these shows are a more valuable use of your time than listening to candidates for our nation's leadership and trying to understand what they want to do, I begin to understand your political leanings.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5812 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
If you think any of these shows are a more valuable use of your time than listening to candidates for our nation's leadership and trying to understand what they want to do, I begin to understand your political leanings.

I get my sources by reading the news and Reading their positions on websites . I don't need to spend wasted time watching the Politicians act magnanimous on stage. the crowds going gooey ooey and clapping at every breaking phrase.
I probably won't watch either convention. I'll just watch the highlights on you tube.

You on the other hand feel like something big will happen at this stage, and your political leanings incline you to hang onto every word and phrase. I hang onto actions and policies. Probably why the GOP has lost me, as it has become very much a big government waste land pandering to the Far Right and convincing their members that everyone but themselves is to blame for the mess we are in.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5799 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
If you think any of these shows are a more valuable use of your time than listening to candidates for our nation's leadership and trying to understand what they want to do, I begin to understand your political leanings.

That's Monday. They're covering Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday - three nights, same as the Democrats. Or are you suggesting that the Republicans should get more airtime than the Democrats by virtue of stretching their convention out an extra day?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5798 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 8):
If you think any of these shows are a more valuable use of your time than listening to candidates for our nation's leadership and trying to understand what they want to do, I begin to understand your political leanings.

Why is there a need to listen through every moment of the parties propaganda events?

You talk about political leanings but if the GOP is about personal freedom why complain when it is exercised. Isn't forcing all tv channels to carry the same political event more along the lines of what typically is referred to here as communism...


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5794 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 11):
You talk about political leanings but if the GOP is about personal freedom why complain when it is exercised. Isn't forcing all tv channels to carry the same political event more along the lines of what typically is referred to here as communism...

Remember, the GOP secret mantra, do as we say, not as we do.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8777 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5782 times:

Quoting cmf (Reply 11):
Isn't forcing all tv channels to carry the same political event

Nobody is talking about forcing anyone. But you would think that the keynote speech (remember that's how Obama first became known nationally - Keynote speakers are carefully chosen to set the tone and message of the Party) and the presidential candidate's speech are ones that people would be most interested to hear. I really don't care about most of the other coverage.

Of course the Left hates Ann Romney - every time she speaks pulls more women over to the GOP it seems, which is why the "war on women" rhetoric from the left is reaching fever pitch. They just don't understand how women might not feel that the right to free abortions is the most critical issue in the country, I guess.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5773 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
But you would think that the keynote speech (remember that's how Obama first became known nationally - Keynote speakers are carefully chosen to set the tone and message of the Party) and the presidential candidate's speech are ones that people would be most interested to hear.

And they will be televised on the networks.

Ann Romney is not the keynote speaker, Chris Christie is. And he's speaking on Tuesday.

-Mir

[Edited 2012-08-24 08:56:51]


7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5761 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 12):
Remember, the GOP secret mantra, do as we say, not as we do.

Don't forget never admitting they are wrong.

Talking about that.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Nobody is talking about forcing anyone. But you would think that the keynote speech (remember that's how Obama first became known nationally - Keynote speakers are carefully chosen to set the tone and message of the Party) and the presidential candidate's speech are ones that people would be most interested to hear. I really don't care about most of the other coverage.

Of course the Left hates Ann Romney - every time she speaks pulls more women over to the GOP it seems, which is why the "war on women" rhetoric from the left is reaching fever pitch. They just don't understand how women might not feel that the right to free abortions is the most critical issue in the country, I guess.

As MIR said, she isn't the keynote speaker. Is it time to start a list of factual errors?


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5761 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
And they will be televised on the networks.

Ann Romney is not the keynote speaker, Chris Christie is. And he's speaking on Tuesday.

-Mir

I have discovered lately that a few facts don't seem to get in the way of the far right's ridiculous claims on this board.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8777 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 5737 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 14):
Ann Romney is not the keynote speaker, Chris Christie is.
Quoting cmf (Reply 15):
As MIR said, she isn't the keynote speaker. Is it time to start a list of factual errors?
Quoting casinterest (Reply 16):
I have discovered lately that a few facts don't seem to get in the way of the far right's ridiculous claims on this board.

Chicago Sun Times: "The Republican convention kicks off next Monday in Tampa and Ann Romney delivers the keynote address." http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2012...nn_romney_to_keynote_first_ni.html

Yahoo.News: "Ann Romney had been scheduled to give the keynote speech at Monday's opening night of the Republican National Convention in Tampa. But the Romney campaign is reportedly thinking about moving her address to another night..." http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/n...y-convention-speech-185342569.html

Politico: " the opening night of the convention and the night that Ann Romney has been scheduled to deliver the keynote address." http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/...miss-ann-romney-speech-132806.html

I am waiting for apologies. I don't really know how there can be two keynote speeches, but there you go.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5726 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
I am waiting for apologies. I don't really know how there can be two keynote speeches, but there you go.

No Apologies from me. Chris Christie is giving the keynote for the GOP convention. Any Republican that doesn't know that, does not deserve an apology.
Maybe keynote for a night counts in Republican land, but since they have 4 nights, that is a lot more bluster and blubbery than I can stand.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5718 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
I am waiting for apologies. I don't really know how there can be two keynote speeches, but there you go.

Official Monday schedule: http://www.gopconvention2012.com/new...elease-monday-convention-schedule/

Official Tuesday schedule: http://www.gopconvention2012.com/new...lease-tuesday-convention-schedule/

From the Tuesday schedule: "Tuesday’s schedule includes the keynote address by New Jersey Governor Chris Christie"

No mention of keynote on Monday's schedule.

Have no idea why some decide to add a second keynote, but I have suspicions.


User currently online2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5711 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Of course the Left hates Ann Romney

Ann Romney and in this case Laura Bush has got none of the kind of treatment that Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama has gotten from the Right.

[Edited 2012-08-24 12:13:13]


"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5680 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
I am waiting for apologies.

Christie is giving the keynote speech of the convention, according to the convention website. Ann Romney may be giving the keynote speech of Monday night, but that's not the same thing. So I stand by my comments.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 17):
I don't really know how there can be two keynote speeches, but there you go.

I would always think that the candidates speech is the real keynote speech, but I guess that's neither here nor there.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5668 times:

The above links for the convention agenda is a bit dated (as of the 20th), it shows Ann Romney speaking on Monday.

I don't think Ann Romney is any kind of 'co-keynote' speaker, but rather the alleged change to Tuesday night, perhaps shortly before the Keynote speaker Chris Christie speaks, is to get max exposure in prime time for Romney especially from his biggest fan, his spouse, who is also a somewhat traditional wife, religious, white, Midwestern USA born and bred, Western/Northern European ancestry and someone who is a fairly good speaker.

As to the weather in Tampa during Monday/Tuesday, one major concern is flooding, including high tides with coastal flooding as well as inland flooding from heavy rains.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5467 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 5639 times:

Quoting helvknight (Reply 4):


    

Just watching the audience is a hoot for the GOP convention. Usually the convention folk/delegates look like clean scrubbed folks you'd find at the horrors known as Amway conventions. Of course you'll see plenty of people donning Cowboy 10 gallon hats, plenty of country artists. They will be chatting up how them dang commie liberal Democrats are heathens and are the spawn of the devil...etc. As I say Yee Ha! Meanwhile the big money $$$ Northeast business elite will be behind the scenes at their snazzy golf games and country clubs while bending prostitutes of both sexes with a couple lady boy's and trannies in the mix pounding out their frustrations. And of course the big money lobbyists, big oil, Saudi Arabia and Chinese interests throwing some lavish spare no expense shindigs. Want to see minority groups? There will be plenty of wait staff, gardeners and other service workers at the beckon call of the Wall Street Country Club, Country Singer redneck, bible thump-er set. Hope Issac stays away and the convention is everything the GOP wants it to be. A good time is deserved by all both at the GOP and next week at the Democratic convention.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11453 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5610 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
the Left hates Ann Romney

Exept that is not true.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
every time she speaks pulls more women over to the GOP it seems, which is why the "war on women" rhetoric from the left is reaching fever pitch. They just don't understand how women might not feel that the right to free abortions is the most critical issue in the country

Whoo, boy... Where to start with this lie....

The "war on women" rhetoric does not start with Ann Romney. She has nothing to do with it. It starts with old ultra rich white guys making decisions on women's health care. The same ultra rich white guys who scream about how they don't want government making health care decisions. The sole issue to the right-wing is "free abortions" but, if anyone pays any attention to anything from Democrats, they will know one major issue is that birth control should be provided, either free or reduced cost based on income, to all women period. The war on women is about forcing the far right wing extremist views on the entire nation. Forcing everyone to be pro-fetus/anti-life. They love the fetus, hate the baby.

Now... about the convention:

From what I remember about every other convention, there has been a keynote speaker every night of the convention. Ann Romney will give the keynote for Monday and Chris Cristy will give the keynote for Tuesday. Careful what you get mad about in your own party on the right... they will kick you out and hang the title of shame (liberal socialist) around you for all eternity!



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinekrisyyz From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5633 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 21):
Christie is giving the keynote speech of the convention, according to the convention website. Ann Romney may be giving the keynote speech of Monday night, but that's not the same thing. So I stand by my comments

I think Ann Romney has been moved to Tuesday night because the major US networks didn't give the GOP convention air time on Monday, and the organizers want Ann Romeny to be showcased. There was talk about having her introduce Mitt on Thursday night, but the party want's Marco Rubio to introduce Mitt in order to attract more Cuban-American votes to the GOP ticket.

I heard that some Canadians (US expats) will be at the GOP convention talking about what a great job our Conservative Prime Minister is doing. I bet they will skip the part about the social issues, I doubt the GOP wants to hear about the Conservative Party of Canada's stance on Same-sex marriage and the fact legalizing gay marriage in Canada has had no adverse affect on the population. I do find it kind of funny how the US right-wing media was constantly bashing the Canadian health care system during the Obama-care debate, while a small part of the criticism was legit, they conveniently left the Canada during the recent same-sex marriage debate.

KrisYYZ


User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1340 posts, RR: 3
Reply 26, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 5610 times:

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 20):

Ann Romney and in this case Laura Bush has got none of the kind of treatment that Hillary Clinton or Michelle Obama has gotten from the Right.

I think this is true. But we also have to take into account that Laura & Ann are also quite pleased to take on a much more back seat role here as well. Neither have the presence that Mrss Obama & Clinton, do. It's their choice & there really is no job description per se for the First Lady.

[Edited 2012-08-27 14:51:16 by srbmod]


Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 27, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5605 times:

The first day, Monday, of the Convention has been effectively cancelled but for some technical opening procedures due to the expected affects of Issac. The revised schedule for the convention over the remaining 3 days will be announced probably tomorrow morning (Sunday) Here is a link to the announcement:
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2...ancel-first-day-of-convention?lite

This sets up a log jam of speakers on the remaining days, with some they wanted on prime time broadcast TV either out, compressed in time or along with some of the more visual activities probably held during the afternoons. This also hurts the various lobbying, fundraising and other side parties planned for Monday and later days.

There hasn't been a convention in Florida in 40 years but Now with Issac, we can understand why there haven't been any since then.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 28, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5597 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 34):

The first day, Monday, of the Convention has been effectively cancelled but for some technical opening procedures due to the expected affects of Isaac.

Can't wait for Pat Robertson and Michelle Bachmann to explain this one....

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 29, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5462 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 34):
here hasn't been a convention in Florida in 40 years but Now with Issac, we can understand why there haven't been any since then.

The headache may get worse. As of now, Issac has it's path set on the area around New Orleans. If this settles in as the final track, then the RNC is going to lose even more coverage, as the Media Panic of NO on the 7th anniversary will set in. If the storm hits Tuesday Night/Wedensday Morning as expected, there will be a media fiasco.

Issac is not forecast to be nearly as strong as Katrina, however, Issac could pass closer to New Orleans than Katrina did. A lot of people forger that Katrina kept NO in the weaker Northwest quadrant while going ashore. NO would have been relatively ok if the levees had not failed. This paragraph is what the media will sieze upon.

The RNC may get upstaged by a Natural Disaster for at least 2 nights and possibly more.
If the worst case happens, the RNC may get upstaged even more by natural disaster coverage.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinerutley21 From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 179 posts, RR: 30
Reply 30, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5446 times:

I wish they would all just leave. It's making Tampa a Zoo. It's a pain to drive in Tampa with them here. Isaac I guess moved away from us. So I don't think they have to worry about that anymore.

Rob



If you're not willing to give up everything, You've already lost.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12265 posts, RR: 25
Reply 31, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5391 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 38):
The headache may get worse. As of now, Issac has it's path set on the area around New Orleans. If this settles in as the final track, then the RNC is going to lose even more coverage, as the Media Panic of NO on the 7th anniversary will set in. If the storm hits Tuesday Night/Wedensday Morning as expected, there will be a media fiasco.

It's more than a headache, it's a migrane. It's going to bring up all those memories of Katrina, and how poorly the GWB Administration handled things, like GWB flying over in Air Force One, pretending to care.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 32, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5330 times:

Louisiana Governor Jindal & Mississippi's are not attending the Convention due the expectation of Issac landing in their states.
Issac is expected to hit shore late Tuesday/early Wednesday and could be a huge distraction for the Convention as well as possibly toning it down so not to look like the are partying when people may be getting killed and maybe a Million in to be effected. Some news channels may do a split screen when Romney and other key speakers are on which will distract from getting their message getting out unfiltered.


User currently offlineTheCol From Canada, joined Jan 2007, 2038 posts, RR: 6
Reply 33, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5331 times:

Quoting krisyyz (Reply 25):
I heard that some Canadians (US expats) will be at the GOP convention talking about what a great job our Conservative Prime Minister is doing.

It will be interesting to see how they spin that one without inadvertently giving credit to the Democrats.



No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
User currently offlinemdsh00 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4124 posts, RR: 8
Reply 34, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5289 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 13):
Of course the Left hates Ann Romney - every time she speaks pulls more women over to the GOP it seems, which is why the "war on women" rhetoric from the left is reaching fever pitch.

That's rich given how much professed Republican party members (elected and non-elected) have bashed Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama (and their daughters) over the silliest things.



"Look Lois, the two symbols of the Republican Party: an elephant, and a big fat white guy who is threatened by change."
User currently offlinestasisLAX From United States of America, joined exactly 7 years ago today! , 3280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 35, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 5289 times:

Well, there seems to be a perceived problem (and a lot of "hard" feelings) with certain state delegations (i.e. Nevada, Maine, Louisiana, Minnesota, and Oklahoma) that have a large number of delegates loyal to Texas Congressmen Ron Paul. The party convention planners purposely sat these state delegations in the "nose bleed" seats at the Tampa convention center - in an effort to not RUIN the television optics of a unified Republican Party - with a visible and LOUD group of pissed-off Paul delegates protesting the nomination of Mitt Romney as the party's standard-bearer. It's quite laughable, in my opinion, that the national Republican party pretends to like the mostly Libertarian-leaning Paul delegates - perhaps there's a "Free Speech" breakout room set up from them to keep them away from the press corps all together.   

Source: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/80168.html

[Edited 2012-08-27 21:33:32]


"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 36, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5239 times:

The Ron Paul-libertarians are a wild card the RNC want's to keep quiet as they are anti-war and their very public extrmeism on social spending and taxes will scare away some independent and mainstram voters the party needs to win.

The placing of them into the background is nothing new, Democrats did the same in the 1964 convention as to denying the seating of Black delegates from Mississippi who believed correctly they really represented the states voters due to finally have voting rights from change in laws, and should dominate the states delgates and not the 'official' and all white ones.

Today the convention will finnally get going with key speeches by NJ Governor Christie, Ann Romney and top party leaders.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12265 posts, RR: 25
Reply 37, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5226 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 36):
Today the convention will finnally get going with key speeches by NJ Governor Christie, Ann Romney and top party leaders.

For all the interest leading up to the moment, I doubt I'll watch more than a few minutes of either party's convention. I certainly haven't blocked off any time. It's just too slow-paced, and way too many 'made for TV' moments. I'll read a few on-line descriptions of what went on, and if there are any particularly interesting moments, I'll watch some on-line video.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently online2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 38, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5155 times:

I am seeing the convention and I have listened to a lot of the speakers, few of them are handing praise to Mitt Romney other than he is a good business leader with little to add to that. The speakers are talking about their personal biography take shots and dings at Obama mostly and moving on.


"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
User currently offlineNorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1824 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5095 times:
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Overall, it was interesting. The two things that stuck in my mind:

Paraphrasing Ann Romney: "Philanthropy is a privilege" When you have as much or more money than the Romneys do, you don't choose to be philanthropic, it's an obligation that comes with the wealth you've achieved. I understand the sentiment behind her statement, that they prefer to donate their time and money anonymously and not make a big show of it, but "privilege" was the wrong word to use, because privilege denotes choice. "Obligation" or "requirement" are better word choices. She came off as being a snob, suggesting that philanthropy is a choice when you have that much money. I'll say again, philanthropy is not a choice. It is required. It is an absolute obligation that comes with the privilege of having the money.

Secondly, I wish every republican in congress was a clone of Chris Christie. While I enjoyed his speech and appreciated his sentiments, there are some things he doesn't seem to understand. The big thing he seems not to understand is that the tea party has drawn a line in the sand as it relates to taxation and compromise and any republican in congress who crosses that line will get their throats slit politically. The Democrats are to be considered the enemy and any compromise, any reaching across the aisle for any reason whatsoever is strictly prohibited. Just watch what happens to republicans deemed to be "too moderate" or "too willing to compromise." You get primaried and you get snark mouthed little girls regurgitating lines like:
"I think you should spend more time with your grandkids Mr. Hatch, and allow this man to go to washington."
or
"You're not spending your money, you're spending MY MONEY!"
Thankfully, the candidate that snark mouthed little girl in Utah was supporting was quickly and handily defeated.

I will also admit, having watched Obama's nomination or should i say coronation four years ago, i was disappointed by this convention. Where was the state by state roll call building up to the clinching of the nomination? That should have been broadcast live on national television during prime time. Also, where was the dramatic buildup to the acceptance speech? Instead of spreading out the speeches, do what the Dems did in 2008, put them all on the same night, creating a sense of build, a sense of growing optimism, a sense that a new king was about to crowned before our very eyes. Instead we get dribs and drabs and probably a dull boring speech by Romney that won't inspire me to change parties.

Of course, part of my disappointment is with the networks, who should have dedicated three or four hours per night to gavel to gavel prime time live coverage. One hour per night just is not enough.



Why are people so against low yields?! If lower yields means more people can travel abroad, i'm all for it
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4372 posts, RR: 27
Reply 40, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5095 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 31):

I shall repeat myself (although I am sure that once again you will not listen), social issues like abortion are not on the Tea Party's agenda. They are after limited government, fiscal responsibility, energy independence, and not a whole lot else.

Sorry, your personal thoughts, or how you'd wish that body would behave are very, very different from reality. I could spend a long time compiling a list to disprove that statement, but instead of doing that, you should simply look at the candidates who have won those endorsements. Pretty much any newcomer to the House in 2010. Pretty much anyone who lost the Senate elections- Angle, O'Donnell, Miller. They all rose as the 'tea party' candidates to challenge the 'establishment', and they were all big time whack jobs.

You are who you try to elect, repeatedly.

Bottom line is those who identify as the 'tea party' have fanned the flames of social issues like hasn't been done in quite some time. You might not like it, but its true. Look how far that kind of 'truce' took Mitch Daniels.

And for what it's worth, I don't think thats quite how the tea party started. You're right, it did start on primarily spending issues and the size of government, but I feel it was quickly hijacked by all the social conservatives looking for a new home, the hot new trend. And they've run with it.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 39):

Secondly, I wish every republican in congress was a clone of Chris Christie. While I enjoyed his speech and appreciated his sentiments, there are some things he doesn't seem to understand. The big thing he seems not to understand is that the tea party has drawn a line in the sand as it relates to taxation and compromise and any republican in congress who crosses that line will get their throats slit politically. The Democrats are to be considered the enemy and any compromise, any reaching across the aisle for any reason whatsoever is strictly prohibited. Just watch what happens to republicans deemed to be "too moderate" or "too willing to compromise." You get primaried and you get snark mouthed little girls regurgitating lines like:

Did you notice the discernible lulls in applause anytime he used the word 'bipartisanship', which he did several times. Telling.

[Edited 2012-08-29 00:06:48]


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 41, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5039 times:

To me what the Republicans call bipartiship is actually extortion, that if Democrats don't go along with tax cuts even to the rich or make massive cuts in spending, then they will bash them without mercy in their next election. Apparently Christie's speech was weak when he used the term 'bipartisan' to that crowd, but the problem is that failing to work with the 'other' party and achieving reasonable compromises that don't destroy critical needs for the poor and middle class.
Christie riled up the crowd as intended but also to some was more about selling himself until well into the speech.

Ann Romney's speech apparently was very well done, using a lot of emotions, especially to women, and of trying to humanize Mitt. Her use of the term as to hers and Mitt's marriage as 'a real marriage' to me is a bash on any same-sex marriage, a popular theme at the Convention. Apparently she made her sons and others in the hall put out tears from parts of her speech.

I also noted that among the speakers last night but not on the 'network' coverage was Gov. Walker of Wisconsin, a hero to the Republicans for his draconian attacks on government workers and their unions (but for 1st Responders), which has hurt millions of 'middle class' voters.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12265 posts, RR: 25
Reply 42, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5037 times:

A quick look at news sources shows Hurricane Issac is getting the headline, not the RNC.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 39):

Paraphrasing Ann Romney: "Philanthropy is a privilege" When you have as much or more money than the Romneys do, you don't choose to be philanthropic, it's an obligation that comes with the wealth you've achieved. I understand the sentiment behind her statement, that they prefer to donate their time and money anonymously and not make a big show of it, but "privilege" was the wrong word to use, because privilege denotes choice. "Obligation" or "requirement" are better word choices. She came off as being a snob, suggesting that philanthropy is a choice when you have that much money. I'll say again, philanthropy is not a choice. It is required. It is an absolute obligation that comes with the privilege of having the money.

Seems Romney's money is doing a lot of good for the Caymans Islands at least...

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 39):
The big thing he seems not to understand is that the tea party has drawn a line in the sand as it relates to taxation and compromise and any republican in congress who crosses that line will get their throats slit politically.

Indeed, many of the GOP primaries have shown this to be true. If anything, it's showing that the Dems are so focused on keeping the WH that they are in grave danger of losing the Senate.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 39):
I will also admit, having watched Obama's nomination or should i say coronation four years ago, i was disappointed by this convention. Where was the state by state roll call building up to the clinching of the nomination?

No, no no no no. That'd give Ron Paul another few minutes of fame.

Big mistake by the GOP. The convention should be both the wedding for the new ticket and the funeral for the runners-up. Supporters of Paul, Gingrich, et al should have been able to get their faces and their banners on the tube one last time. The cameras should have found a supporter or two choked up or crying, and then gone back to the landslide of votes Romney is getting. That would help the ones who supported the runners up move through grief quickly and get onboard the Romney bandwagon. Instead we're going to have clumps of people at the edges of the Big Tent seething inside.

Like so many other things, the move makes Romney look classless and nervous if not paranoid.

I listened to a discussion about whether or not Romney's religion would be featured at the Convention.

One point was that there were so many other topics that they could not feature:
> His business career: Up comes Bain Capital and his elite tax status
> His political career: Governor of Massachusetts leads to his Etch-a-Sketch on health care
> His political plans: Ryan's Budget, and the end of Mdeicare as we know it, a losing issue

So what's left?

The GOP is looking for something to make the wazzock Romney seem human and likeable. They are hoping that a big dose of religion and family values can make that happen. The big risk is that it highlights his Mormanism.

God help them if there is a picture of Bishop Romney dressed up in some type of Mormon garb floating around the archives. Some person, in the shape of a corporation because corporations are people too, will be running some very hard to trace attack ads shortly after such a thing surfaces.

Really, IMHO, the GOP just needs to double down and take any hits associated with Romney's choice of religious sect and any hits associated with Ryan's budget. They need to make the campaign about family values and fiscal conservatism. I don't agree with the GOP's policies in these areas, but IMHO it's their strongest cards to play. However almost everything they've done to date has turned sour. Personally I hope the trend continues, but it'd be best for everyone if each candidate made their strongest pitch.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12274 posts, RR: 47
Reply 43, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5021 times:
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Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 39):
I understand the sentiment behind her statement, that they prefer to donate their time and money anonymously

Aside from mentioning it at the RNC and on national television? So, anonymous(ish) donations and not revealing tax returns. Hmmm.   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8777 posts, RR: 24
Reply 44, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5011 times:

Quoting 2707200X (Reply 38):

I am seeing the convention and I have listened to a lot of the speakers, few of them are handing praise to Mitt Romney other than he is a good business leader with little to add to that.

"All Praise XXX, Praise his name", is something out of religions and the 2008 Democratic Party Convention. We don't need that sort of thing.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 39):
"Philanthropy is a privilege" When you have as much or more money than the Romneys do, you don't choose to be philanthropic, it's an obligation that comes with the wealth you've achieved. I understand the sentiment behind her statement, that they prefer to donate their time and money anonymously and not make a big show of it, but "privilege" was the wrong word to use, because privilege denotes choice.

No, it is not a requirement. It is a moral imperative, not an obligation.

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 39):
The big thing he seems not to understand is that the tea party has drawn a line in the sand as it relates to taxation and compromise and any republican in congress who crosses that line will get their throats slit politically.

I think you will find that if the politician involved votes to increase taxes somewhere, but only in return for having put in place a concrete plan that will result in a (more or less) balanced budget and lower spending, the TP members will buy into it. What we object to is constantly raising taxes and not addressing the central issue - out of control spending.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 41):
To me what the Republicans call bipartiship is actually extortion, that if Democrats don't go along with tax cuts even to the rich or make massive cuts in spending, then they will bash them without mercy in their next election.

And the Democrats are better? The 4 years of the Obama presidency was marked by Dems essentially saying, "you do what we want, or we take our toys home." Harry Ried declared that he would not even try to get a budget, as if no other administration ever had to deal with a split house - I recall budget battles since I started following them in the late 70s and early 80s - they are ALWAYS contentious, but eventually both sides hammer out a compromise. Unless you are a democrat in the past few years, who don't want to compromise on anything.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12265 posts, RR: 25
Reply 45, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 4967 times:

I heard some extended sound bites of Ann Romney's speech and she comes across as down-to-earth, honest and sincere, unlike her hubby who comes across as calculated, fake and out-of-touch.

Too bad for the GOP that she's not the candidate.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4952 times:

This convention reminds me of the 1992 convention.

In 1992 there was Pat Buchanan who like Ron Paul this year got a significant number of delegate votes.

You had hard-right views on abortion and marriage....the Pat Robertson speech.

And President George H W Bush who seemed out-of-touch with the struggling middle class and jobless. This year it's Mitt Romney...enough said....

I'm not saying Obama will crush Romney in November but there is a familiar pattern here....

[Edited 2012-08-29 09:42:00]


The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 47, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4915 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 44):
I think you will find that if the politician involved votes to increase taxes somewhere, but only in return for having put in place a concrete plan that will result in a (more or less) balanced budget and lower spending, the TP members will buy into it. What we object to is constantly raising taxes and not addressing the central issue - out of control spending.

Then why do we see people in the House recoiling at the idea of 5:1 or even 10:1 cuts-to-taxes ratios? The line is always "no tax increases at all, we need to cut spending".

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8777 posts, RR: 24
Reply 48, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4903 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 47):
Then why do we see people in the House recoiling at the idea of 5:1 or even 10:1 cuts-to-taxes ratios? The line is always "no tax increases at all, we need to cut spending".

Because we don't believe it. Politicians (on both sides) like to describe a reduction of the rate of increase as a cut. Let's say the current budget for a federal program called "Condoms for Kindergarteners" costs $1 million per year, and is planned to expand to $5 million per year next year. They decide to grow it only to $3 million, and claim $2 million as "spending cuts". They take us for idiots. Most of the cuts that were offered last year that you quote was of that type.

Let's put it very simply. We want to see federal spending drop to 18% of GDP or less (some will demand more cuts, but 18% will get most people). That has for many decades been the approximate ability of the Federal Government to consistently collect while not harming the economy. I would even approve of a constitutional amendment capping federal spending as a percent of GDP, except in certain tightly defined cases of national emergency.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1340 posts, RR: 3
Reply 49, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4871 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 48):
Politicians (on both sides) like to describe a reduction of the rate of increase as a cut.

Because it is. When you have services that stay the same, relative to an increasing population size, it absolutely is a reduction in spending, unless and only unless there is a proportional increase in spending. Until that happens, yes, it's a cut.

As you say, this is a definition that both sides already agree on, so I'm not seeing the need to split hairs here...

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 48):
Let's say the current budget for a federal program called "Condoms for Kindergarteners"

Let's not reduce your point to a Strawman here.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 48):
We want to see federal spending drop to 18% of GDP or less (some will demand more cuts, but 18% will get most people).

I don't think 18% is really sustainable anymore. I'd love to see a lot of our defensive commitments around the world and locally handed off to other nations (particularly China), who've enjoyed these protections while often prospering at our expense. But I don't see us being able to take enough of a pride diet to make that happen. Couple that with the inevitability of a single payer healthcare system coming on line (it will happen, perhaps not for another decade or two, but there is no other long term option), as well as our dire need to overhaul this country's infrastructure in a number of levels, and it becomes apparent that 18% will not cut it. 25 - 30 and we can be back in the game. But if TP can't handle that, their ride to irrelevance will only hasten.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 50, posted (1 year 10 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 4817 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 44):
I think you will find that if the politician involved votes to increase taxes somewhere, but only in return for having put in place a concrete plan that will result in a (more or less) balanced budget and lower spending, the TP members will buy into it. What we object to is constantly raising taxes and not addressing the central issue - out of control spending

Then why won;'t the TP agree to revoking the Bush Tax cuts. Those cuts , then and there would go back to the Deficit Reduction and Balanced Budget plan that Clinton had in place.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 48):
Let's put it very simply. We want to see federal spending drop to 18% of GDP or less

If the tax rate is increased, and hte economy grows, we get back to that spot, but at the current tax rate and expenditures,of which the Debt incurred through lack of foresight when making tax cuts, has left the economy in a place where just holding tax rates will not do the trick.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 44):
And the Democrats are better? The 4 years of the Obama presidency was marked by Dems essentially saying, "you do what we want, or we take our toys home.

The GOP did the same thing. Need I remind you of the budget standoffs.

If the truth is told, from Obama to Reagen, Clinton was the last president that had any fiscal responsibility for balancing the budget , and he did it on the back of a Bush 1 Tax Raise. And That tax raise did not prevent the econonomy and GDP from growing over the long run.

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 48):
Because we don't believe it

Kinda funny coming from a strongly Religious party . This lack of faith. Don't ya think?



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinehelvknight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 51, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4757 times:

Fox News actually being fair and balanced  Wow!
Quote:
On the other hand, to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to facts, Ryan’s speech was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech. On this measure, while it was Romney who ran the Olympics, Ryan earned the gold.
The good news is that the Romney-Ryan campaign has likely created dozens of new jobs among the legions of additional fact checkers that media outlets are rushing to hire to sift through the mountain of cow dung that flowed from Ryan’s mouth. Said fact checkers have already condemned certain arguments that Ryan still irresponsibly repeated.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/.../paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/


User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 52, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 4740 times:

Quoting helvknight (Reply 51):
Fox News actually being fair and balanced Quote:

That is one of the few times I agreed with something from FoxNews.

At least Ryan made some general points of policy he supports although still vague on the details. His speaking style was far more interesting to not only those in the hall, but far better than other speakers so far to the public. It does gather the base conservatives of the party and conservative leaning independents as well as some younger higher income voters. Problem is that Ryan in his style will overwhelm the dull Romney.

Subjects being virtually ignored on the podium: The war in Afghanistan. Israel and Iran. The need to make massive cuts in our military spending. Getting tough with China and India stealing our jobs and related trade policies. Of course, the Democrats will ignore these same issues so not to chase off potential voters.

Tonight (Thursday) will see the Romney speak. From an article I saw, a number of Olympic athletes, especially those involved in the 2002 Winter Olympics Romney was the CEO of, will appear just prior to his speech.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12265 posts, RR: 25
Reply 53, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4707 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 44):
Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 39):
"Philanthropy is a privilege" When you have as much or more money than the Romneys do, you don't choose to be philanthropic, it's an obligation that comes with the wealth you've achieved. I understand the sentiment behind her statement, that they prefer to donate their time and money anonymously and not make a big show of it, but "privilege" was the wrong word to use, because privilege denotes choice.

No, it is not a requirement. It is a moral imperative, not an obligation.

Whatever it is, the need exists 24/7.

If people in Romney's income bracket were paying anything like their historical tax rate, maybe there'd be the resources to bring our education system up to the level it needs to be to keep supporting the lifestyle our nation is accustomed to.

Most of that was built by the rush of students that came with the GI Bill post-WWII.

Instead, people who think like Romney are turning education into a profit center to enrich themselves, the nation be damned.

And Ryan wants to gut Pell Grants. What are you thinking, Ryan?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 54, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4709 times:

Quoting helvknight (Reply 51):
Fox News actually being fair and balanced

When the FoxNews opinion page says a Republican is being deceptive, he's got to be really deceptive.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2245 posts, RR: 13
Reply 55, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4701 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 53):

You aren't a conservative anymore?  Wow!



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 56, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4689 times:
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OK question: Are there speakers using teleprompters?


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7083 posts, RR: 9
Reply 57, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4691 times:

I've seen a lot of talk about Ryan's GM plant statement. Surpised people can't read carefully.

from Ryan's speech:
"A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, CANIDIATE Obama said: "I believe that if our government is there to support you. this plant will be here for another hundred years." That's what he said in 2008."



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12265 posts, RR: 25
Reply 58, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 4679 times:

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 55):
You aren't a conservative anymore?

Actually, I was a Reagan Republican in the 80s, then I grew up!  



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5341 posts, RR: 53
Reply 59, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4667 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 56):
OK question: Are there speakers using teleprompters?

Not sure on usage, but they're most certainly there. I can't imagine why they wouldn't be using them.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 60, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4659 times:

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 59):
ot sure on usage, but they're most certainly there. I can't imagine why they wouldn't be using them.

Yes they are. They are using them for pacing. I think honestly it was what ruined Ann Romney's speech. She was rushing trying to catch the telemprompter for most of it.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7083 posts, RR: 9
Reply 61, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4653 times:

Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 59):

Condoleezza Rice did not use a prompter. I would imagine most are using them.

Wonder who the "mystery" speaker is. People say Clint Eastwood. I'm throwing a wild guess and saying Herman Cain.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinegarnetpalmetto From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5341 posts, RR: 53
Reply 62, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4646 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 60):

Yes they are. They are using them for pacing. I think honestly it was what ruined Ann Romney's speech. She was rushing trying to catch the telemprompter for most of it.

Thanks cas. Again, I figured they were in use but given how certain blowhards like to demonize the use of them as of late, there may have been some reluctance by some pols to actually utilize them.



South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 63, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 4625 times:
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Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 62):
figured they were in use but given how certain blowhards like to demonize the use of them as of late, there may have been some reluctance by some pols to actually utilize them.

My point exactly. Hopefully now the old "Obama teleprompter reader" can be put to rest



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7505 posts, RR: 24
Reply 64, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4626 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 63):
Quoting garnetpalmetto (Reply 62):
figured they were in use but given how certain blowhards like to demonize the use of them as of late, there may have been some reluctance by some pols to actually utilize them.

My point exactly. Hopefully now the old "Obama teleprompter reader" can be put to rest

There's nothing wrong w/using teleprompters in and of themselves; what Obama's been guilty of is over-relying on them even when there's glitch w/one.

Kind of like many (and I know quite a few of them) that blindly rely on their GPS even when it could be wrong or contain obsolete info. w/respect to actual conditions.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 65, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4597 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 57):
I've seen a lot of talk about Ryan's GM plant statement. Surpised people can't read carefully.

I'm surprised you aren't seeing the point of the criticism.

Quoting flymia (Reply 57):
"A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, CANIDIATE Obama said: "I believe that if our government is there to support you. this plant will be here for another hundred years." That's what he said in 2008."

He didn't say the plant would automatically be there, he said it would be there if the government was there to support the workers. But the plant closed before he was in office, so he never got a chance to implement a policy that would let the government get involved. So Ryan was trying to blame him for not following through on a promise when in fact he never had the opportunity to do so. That's what the fuss is about, not whether he used the right word or not (which, as you point out, he did, but that's irrelevant).

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 66, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4586 times:
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Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 64):
what Obama's been guilty of is over-relying on them even when there's glitch w/one.

Can you please expand: What is "over relying" exactly.? What is the measure and threshold ?



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 67, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4591 times:
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WOW

Even Fox News doesn't like Ryan

" Dazzling, Deceiving, Distracting"

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/.../paul-ryans-speech-in-three-words/



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7505 posts, RR: 24
Reply 68, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4577 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 66):
Can you please expand: What is "over relying" exactly.? What is the measure and threshold ?

Some signs of when one is over-relying on a teleprompter:

1. When one is repeating the same sentence for no rhyme or reason.

2. When one reads a prompt that was not intended for that particular occassion and/or individual.

3. When one draws a complete blank when a teleprompter inadvertently goes out or malfunctions.

[Edited 2012-08-30 12:44:13]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 69, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 4573 times:
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Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 68):
Some sings of when one is over-relying on a teleprompter:

1. When one is repeating the same sentence for no rhyme or reason.

2. When one reads a prompt that was not intended for that particular occassion and/or individual.

3. When one draws a complete blank when a teleprompter inadvertently goes out or malfunctions.

Interesting! is that the comprehensive list or are there more?

If you do 1 out of 3 above you are in the clear?

Also - is there an acceptable percentage of time if the above occur.. For example can if all 1 occur every 1,000 speeches is that "over-reliance"? what about 5 of every 1,000 time?

[Edited 2012-08-30 11:56:59]


Step into my office, baby
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7505 posts, RR: 24
Reply 70, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4544 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 69):
Also - is there an acceptable percentage of time if the above occur.. For example can if all 1 occur every 1,000 speeches is that "over-reliance"? what about 5 of every 1,000 time?

I will let you be the judge with the below-link:

http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...8.38.1.1.0...0.0...1ac.d6Ts9tOBhLE



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2706 posts, RR: 8
Reply 71, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4534 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 65):
But the plant closed before he was in office, so he never got a chance to implement a policy that would let the government get involved.

Wrong the plant was still open. It closed 6 months after he took office in June of 2009...

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...yan-Was-Correct-About-Plant-Cosure

Quoting Mir (Reply 65):
So Ryan was trying to blame him for not following through on a promise when in fact he never had the opportunity to do so

Ther talking heads in the liberal press tried to use the plant was closed garbage because they used a faulty WaPo article for their fact checking. They also tried to say that Obama made the statement after he had been in office when it wsa obvious that Ryan said candidate Obama



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 72, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4539 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 67):
OW

Even Fox News doesn't like Ryan

" Dazzling, Deceiving, Distracting

Not fox news, that is an opionion



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 73, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4534 times:
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Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 70):
I will let you be the judge with the below-link:

That did not answer my question. The answer to my question is a number,

Can you provide it? or no?

You must be able to.. i mean how else do you differentiate between "over-reliance", "reliance" or "non-reliance" ?

You must have a scale.



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7083 posts, RR: 9
Reply 74, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4534 times:

Quoting mt99 (Reply 66):
Can you please expand: What is "over relying" exactly.? What is the measure and threshold ?

Here is an examples http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMszKcpn2DU

Quoting Mir (Reply 65):
I'm surprised you aren't seeing the point of the criticism.
Quoting Mir (Reply 65):
. But the plant closed before he was in office

I see the point of the criticism from Obama's campaign. Honestly I don't think Ryan should have used it in his speech but the plant was still in operation after Obama took office. http://blogs.marketwatch.com/electio...s-defend-ryans-gm-plant-statement/



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6469 posts, RR: 9
Reply 75, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4530 times:

I'd say the criticism should be that if Obama had saved the plant, then Ryan would have said it's socialist and unamerican.


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineKen777 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 8161 posts, RR: 8
Reply 76, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 4533 times:

Just looked at the news on TV and Romney was on the podium checking out it's height, probably a sound check and, of course, ensuring that his teleprompter was set up just right.

So (hopefully) tonight will be the end of it until the Democrats hold theirs.


User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7083 posts, RR: 9
Reply 77, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4552 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 75):
I'd say the criticism should be that if Obama had saved the plant, then Ryan would have said it's socialist and unamerican.

Probably not, because Ryan was on a task force that wanted to give the plant tax breaks and government funding but from what I read city and state funding, not federal government funding. But the plant closed.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6469 posts, RR: 9
Reply 78, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

I searched a little and couldn't find a definitive answer, so I ask you. Is there another occasion for political parties in the US to assemble and work on a platform, outside of the conventions ?


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 79, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4547 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 74):
but the plant was still in operation after Obama took office. http://blogs.marketwatch.com/electio...ment/

Woo hoo 57 workers doing Izuzu work, after over 2000 were let go in Dec 2008.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 80, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4517 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 74):
but the plant was still in operation after Obama took office.

It had already produced its last vehicle for GM at that point, and was running on a token staff whose days were clearly numbered. The death warrant had already been signed when he took office, even if the official execution wasn't until after.

-Mir

[Edited 2012-08-30 14:59:34]


7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinedragon-wings From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4499 times:

Paul Ryan made a few claims in last nights speech that were not true or he didn't tell the whole truth.

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news...ned%20to%20Mixed=1&__utmk=94644959

The auto plant was one of them. The other was for doing "exactly nothing" with the recommendations of a bipartisan commission Obama appointed to review the nation's debt crisis. He neglected to mention that he was a member of the commission and that he voted against the recommendations himself. They mentioned a 3rd claim he made on nightly news but forgot what it was about.



Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
User currently offlinedragon-wings From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 3973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4485 times:

I remember what the 3 claim was. Ryan claimed that Obama was responsible for a downgrade of the U.S. government's credit rating. Scott Pelley of CBS news confronted Ryan on that point, reading from the S&P's own report saying that it was Republicans' refusal to accept any revenue-raising measures that prompted the credit downgrade.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_16...ng-obama-for-u.s-credit-downgrade/



Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 83, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4459 times:

As to the use of 'teleprompters', there are very good reasons to use them by politicians. They don't want to make a mistatement of critical issues, miss important points, get 'off message' or even encourage a war in some extreme situations.
Tonight, Romney is on the line, he has to give the speech of his life. It will be interesting to see how it comes out.


User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8777 posts, RR: 24
Reply 84, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4444 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 50):
Then why won;'t the TP agree to revoking the Bush Tax cuts. Those cuts , then and there would go back to the Deficit Reduction and Balanced Budget plan that Clinton had in place.
Quoting Mir (Reply 54):
When the FoxNews opinion page says a Republican is being deceptive, he's got to be really deceptive.

-Mir
Quoting mt99 (Reply 67):
WOW

Even Fox News doesn't like Ryan

Look her up. She's very far left. Her position is hardly a surprise.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 83):
As to the use of 'teleprompters', there are very good reasons to use them by politicians. They don't want to make a mistatement of critical issues, miss important points, get 'off message' or even encourage a war in some extreme situations.

Check out Clint Eastwood's speech. He's not using the teleprompter - he's not ever reading a prepared speech. He's making it up as he goes along. But then you can do that when you know what you want to say and are speaking from the heart.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4372 posts, RR: 27
Reply 85, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4443 times:

This is a complete train wreck, I am honestly in shock.


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 86, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4435 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 84):
Check out Clint Eastwood's speech. He's not using the teleprompter - he's not ever reading a prepared speech. He's making it up as he goes along. But then you can do that when you know what you want to say and are speaking from the heart.

And you're a trained actor.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 87, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4423 times:

Things go great when the GOP talks about the economy, but then when you let Rubio go religion and Social Conservatism, you open up a big can of worms. Here he talks about a land of opportunity, and then goes on to deny it to others.

Oh there he goes back to the economy.......



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1774 posts, RR: 2
Reply 88, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4402 times:

This is how we feed animals....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvuqZ318Zkw

http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh2FvSql8vpQlbUoy0

http://www.boston.com/ae/tv/2012/08/.../FkyZh6ISn8BiWfHSL3Q8pL/story.html



Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6285 posts, RR: 17
Reply 89, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4356 times:

Romney has spoken.....


......so to all the repulicans & the media.....as a resident of the great city of Tampa, I can finally say.....




GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!   



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5362 posts, RR: 8
Reply 90, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4310 times:

I know we deserve better... but how is anyone suddenly going to get both parties to work together to make things works and get things passed in the Congress? I mean, really?

Tugg

[Edited 2012-08-30 21:59:55]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7083 posts, RR: 9
Reply 91, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4308 times:

Quoting Marcus (Reply 88):

May I ask what was the point of posting this? You just gave us the link and said nothing. When someone does that I can only assume the point of it was to bash the RNC and Republicans. Are you so closed minded that you think those people represent what republicans believe? Should I post articles about what was said about Mayor Mia Love from liberals?
The peanut throwing was horrible and the people were properly kicked out. Her comment about racism and Tampa being the deep south was a little over the top though. It's Tampa. Central/Southern Florida.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 89):

All those people in your city just made a lot of money for your city, I don't care what party you are any city should be happy to be hosting a national convention.

Anyway everything was great besides for the Eastwood thing. CNN said he basically just threw out his speech if he had anything written down. The video about Romeny and the elderly couple with the story about Romeny helping their dying son is what should have been on during prime time. For some reason people stil believe this man is uncaring and a rock. Anyone who actually knows anything about the guy or who has watched the RNC cant honestly say that.

As for his speech it was good. He isn't as good as president Obama that is a given but he sure does speak of things that make a lot more sense. I was a bit agitated at the comments that his speech did not give enough details. It's a speech not a debate or presentation. Obama four years ago talked about hope and change and the media loved it. Where we're the details then?

Also another form of criticsim from Roland Martin about Romney mentioning Steve Jobs and apple. How he should not have said that because apple makes their products in china. If Roland knew anything he would know that Jobs said himself that the regulations and laws in the U.S. make it impossible for him to make his products here.
Now let's see if I can bare to watch the DNC 



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlineN174UA From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4265 times:

Quoting tugger (Reply 90):
I know we deserve better... but how is anyone suddenly going to get both parties to work together to make things works and get things passed in the Congress? I mean, really?

No, not anymore. 15 years or so ago, maybe. But not with the pathetic "leaders" Pelosi, Reid, and Boehner.

Last time there was any real leadership was with Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich in the late 1990s. Reagan and Tip O'Neill worked great together in the '80s.


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6285 posts, RR: 17
Reply 93, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4239 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 91):

Keep in mind, Tampa bid on the 2012 Olympics----& got RNC. Not sure they would have bid on latter if they had won the former.

Second, I wasn't speaking for the city, I was speaking for myself.



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5435 posts, RR: 29
Reply 94, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4205 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 9):
Probably why the GOP has lost me, as it has become very much a big government waste land pandering to the Far Right and convincing their members that everyone but themselves is to blame for the mess we are in.

Sorry, but sub "DEM" in for "GOP" and "Far Left" for "Far Right" and it would be just as true.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 22):
white
Quoting seb146 (Reply 24):
white
Quoting seb146 (Reply 24):
white

Amazing how we have to make sure to point to "white", as it's now a bad thing to be white. Love the double standard.

BTW, has anyone ever referred to the president as "Half black" or "the first half-black president"? Just wondering. I don't really care what race he or anyone else is, but I find it amazing that for all the insistance that race shouldn't matter, being half black makes him black, yet being half white still makes him black.

I guess that's how it goes now...

Quoting N174UA (Reply 92):


Last time there was any real leadership was with Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich in the late 1990s. Reagan and Tip O'Neill worked great together in the '80s.

True.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13464 posts, RR: 62
Reply 95, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4208 times:
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Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 93):
Keep in mind, Tampa bid on the 2012 Olympics

So what? You want a medal?  



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1340 posts, RR: 3
Reply 96, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4204 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 95):
So what? You want a medal?  

I doubt it, since A. it was a GOP gathering & B. Medals are taxable income.

  



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6469 posts, RR: 9
Reply 97, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4191 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 78):
I searched a little and couldn't find a definitive answer, so I ask you. Is there another occasion for political parties in the US to assemble and work on a platform, outside of the conventions ?

Nobody ?



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8027 posts, RR: 54
Reply 98, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4193 times:

I thought Clint Eastwood was an appalling debacle, made me feel sorry for the man and almost sorry for the party. This is their celebrity spokesman? A confused 82 year old rambling incoherently? Well, I suppose like W's absence, it is unintentionally telling. But someone, the stage manager, whoever is running this, should have at least made sure the guy had a prepared speech. I am in showbusiness and I can't think of anyone who I would allow on stage to speak for more than thirty seconds without a prepared piece (they're allowed bullet points instead of text if they have a track record of public speaking) - let alone anyone in their eighties.

Four more years, by the look of it.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 99, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4167 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 94):
Sorry, but sub "DEM" in for "GOP" and "Far Left" for "Far Right" and it would be just as true.

Mine was specifically in reference to what happened 2000-2008, and why they lost me.

2008-2012 is still sepcifically a result of the great recession. It is why I am specifcally ticked with the GOP response. To claim that a mess that big should be all better after 3.5 years is nuts. Especially when most of the debt they argue about was guaranteed the day of the bush tax cuts, and the entrance into two wars. And they know it. GWB and his administration was mentioned very little,Other than Condoleza Rice, if at all this week by the convention. The GOP also helped enure that mess continued, anyone remember the budget crisis?

The GOP wants to make this election about jobs, and the debt. It is not enough . Too many folks still hold them directly responsible for the mess. They have to make it more about Obama, and the fact that they can do better. You saw a little of that last night in Romney, Rubio, and Eastwood's speech. But it is going to be hard to do when they keep using facts and numbers that the previous GOP administration was highly responsible for. They need specifcs and not generalizations of what they are going to do better than Obama.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2045 posts, RR: 2
Reply 100, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4163 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 84):
Check out Clint Eastwood's speech. He's not using the teleprompter - he's not ever reading a prepared speech. He's making it up as he goes along. But then you can do that when you know what you want to say and are speaking from the heart.

If THAT's the alternative, give me a teleprompter any day. I just watched the "speech" because I couldn't believe it was as bad as people made it out to be - bloody hell. It's worse than that. The poor, poor man.



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4372 posts, RR: 27
Reply 101, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4153 times:

Quoting Rara (Reply 100):
I just watched the "speech" because I couldn't believe it was as bad as people made it out to be - bloody hell. It's worse than that.

Yeah...

I think its even worse to read the transcript.

"I mean, what do you say to people? Do you just -- you know -- I know -- people were wondering -- you don’t -- handle that OK. Well, I know even people in your own party were very disappointed when you didn’t close Gitmo. And I thought, well closing Gitmo -- why close that, we spent so much money on it. But, I thought maybe as an excuse -- what do you mean shut up?"


It was pretty epic.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13004 posts, RR: 12
Reply 102, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4151 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 78):
I searched a little and couldn't find a definitive answer, so I ask you. Is there another occasion for political parties in the US to assemble and work on a platform, outside of the conventions ?

They do have various other meetings each year and leading up to the every 4th year national convention. The Presidential conventions are mainly huge rallies to the party members, an opportunity for fundraising for major offices and they are critical, unfiltered presentations of their platforms, policies and candidates.

The Eastwood presentation is just getting bashed in the political and general media. It was just downright dumb, awkward, uncomfortable, offensive to the President and many who saw it and worse it pushed Romney's speech to end past 11 PM on the East coast. What were the party handlers thinking? This could be the most memorable and worst moment from this convention, perhaps one of the worst of all time. I bet we won't see a like presentation by a celebrity in prime time at the Demo convention next week.

To some commentators Rubio's presentation was like Gov. Cristie's more about himself, not about the candidates. It also tried (as with others) to cover over the anti-immigrant platforms of the party. Apparently per the various commentators, the best part was the usual, emotional film presentation prior to Romey's speech, it apparently was well received, powerful, it showed him as a 'comforter' to real family and personal crises, it played up family, humanized him and the usual stuff in them.

As to Romney's speech, it has been overall considered as decent, but not great by commentators. Too vague in critical areas as usual in these speeches, the usual bashing of the President. It probably slightly helped him which is very important in what is expected to be a very tight election.

At least Issac didn't wash out the convention, although it did affect it. There were no major acts of violence, protesters were ignored by the media or just didn't make enough noise. An obscene amount of money was raised and distributed by very rich contributors and lobbying groups at 100's of off-site parties. Now the political circus moves to Charlotte.


User currently offlinejpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4372 posts, RR: 27
Reply 103, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4150 times:

I don't see this as resulting in much of a post convention 'bounce'. I'd call it a par for the course. Next week, Obama will have a chance to assert his 'home field advantage' and make it his race to lose.

A negative for the GOP is the overall negative relations with the Ron Paul people throughout the convention. It seems like a small, but not insignificant number of these libertarians will be voting for Gary Johnson or writing in Paul. That could make a difference at the margins in several key states. Add to that the Virgil Goode problem in Virginia, and this has to be a legitimate concern for Romney.

[Edited 2012-08-31 04:39:08]


The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2706 posts, RR: 8
Reply 104, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4114 times:

Eastwood did what he was supposed to do, entertain. If he was doing that to Bush then no one on the left would of had a problem with it. Thanks Clint for lifetime of entertainment.

As far as Romneys speech it was much better than I could of imagined. Did not vote for Romney in the primary but if he does half of what he says he will than he wil do a good job. Time to end the debacle...Vote for Romney/Ryan.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2706 posts, RR: 8
Reply 105, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 80):
It had already produced its last vehicle for GM at that point, and was running on a token staff whose days were clearly numbered. The death warrant had already been signed when he took office, even if the official execution wasn't until after
Quote:
He added: "And I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to retool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years."

In October of the same year, when Mr. Obama paid another visit, he promised that "As president, I will lead an effort to retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and all across America."

Sure sounds like Obama was telling these people he would do something. So either he did not know what was happening to this plant when he made these speeches or it was just another of his campaign lies that he told.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7083 posts, RR: 9
Reply 106, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4070 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 102):
protesters were ignored by the media or just didn't make enough noise.

They were expecting 5,000+ protesters. When Issac was a threat they did not show up. The only good thing Issac has done. Well it will also give much needed rain to the country too.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 102):
Apparently per the various commentators, the best part was the usual, emotional film presentation prior to Romey's speech, it apparently was well received, powerful, it showed him as a 'comforter' to real family and personal crises, it played up family, humanized him and the usual stuff in them.

It was great. Of course MSNBC called it a "failure" the second the video ended because it showed his father and mother because they were more open to moderate ideas. Chris Matthews the second the film ended said "this video was a failure because it showed his father and his mother a pro choice lady" Wow MSNBC is a pathetic news organization, no wonder they struggle with ratings. Chris Mathews is getting more pathetic and more desperate for media attention every day.

They certainly should have had that video and the elderly couple speaking about their son during prime time and not Eastwood.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 102):
Too vague in critical areas as usual in these speeches, the

What a double standard that is. This is a convention speech not a debate, not a PowerPoint presentation to board members. He would be there for 3 hours if he was giving details. Pres Obama's fantastic speech four years ago talked about "hope" and "change". That speech was fantastic, and now they want details?

Quoting windy95 (Reply 105):
it was just another of his campaign lies that he told.

I think that is Ryan's best spin on it. I would not have used this in his speech but President Obama went all over the country about all these great things he will do. Well he has not done most of them.


One more rant about the media and Mr. John Acosta on CNN. Each day of the RNC I saw him trying to gather "soundbites" with leading and deceiving questions, examples:
He asked a Louisiana delegate: "there has been talk about the RNC taking place not being appropriate, do you feel it is ok to be here right now and to have the convention?" Really? What talk? Does Acosta think 50,000 people should just pack up and go because at Cat-1 hurricane was hitting Louisiana.

The next day he then asked Sen McCain's wife about how she feels about Romney because of Sen McCain's and Romney's race against each other in 2008. Really, his wife? Thankfully she answered well knowing exactly what he was trying to do.

Then last night after the speeches he goes up to Sen Rubio trying to get him to talk about how Romney talked about Obama unfortunately failing so far. He pretty much asked Rubio if he was upset that Obama failed or happy, did he agree with what Romney said. Rubio gave the perfect answer: I love America more than I love Republicans. The guy has been chasing for soundbites all week. Its pathetic IMO.



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 107, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4061 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 105):
So either he did not know what was happening to this plant when he made these speeches or it was just another of his campaign lies that he told.

The speech was February of 2008. Maybe you don't recall that at that point, the dow was still at 12200, still waiting to plunge to 8000 by october of 2008. that gasoline was still around$3 dollars prior to running up to 4 dollars that summer. The great recession was beginning, but no one knew how bad it was going to be. But this statement of your highlights why I do not trust the GOP. They can't even remember what happened in 2008.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12265 posts, RR: 25
Reply 108, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4046 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 83):
As to the use of 'teleprompters', there are very good reasons to use them by politicians. They don't want to make a mistatement of critical issues

Right. Who was the guy who crashed out of the GOP primaries after he couldn't name the three departments of government he vowed to eliminate?

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 102):
Apparently per the various commentators, the best part was the usual, emotional film presentation prior to Romey's speech, it apparently was well received, powerful, it showed him as a 'comforter' to real family and personal crises, it played up family, humanized him and the usual stuff in them.

They had no real choice but play that up, because every key point in his resume (gilded childhood, Bain Capital, RomneyCare in Massachusetts, OBishop of the Mormon Church, OpEd where he threw GM under the bus, last five years of burning through his own money trying to get himself elected) just do not work in his favor.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 99):
2008-2012 is still sepcifically a result of the great recession. It is why I am specifcally ticked with the GOP response. To claim that a mess that big should be all better after 3.5 years is nuts. Especially when most of the debt they argue about was guaranteed the day of the bush tax cuts, and the entrance into two wars. And they know it. GWB and his administration was mentioned very little,Other than Condoleza Rice, if at all this week by the convention. The GOP also helped enure that mess continued, anyone remember the budget crisis?

The point no one is raising is that Romney/Ryan support the exact same Bush/Cheney policies that got us into the mess, and worse! Extension of Bush tax cuts, elimination of home mortgage interest deduction, eliminating Pell Grants, loosening government regulation (worked great in the bank sector, right!) and on and on. Add to it that they'd be picking the next few Supreme Court Justices (see "corporations are people" decision) and I can't see how a Romney/Ryan ticket will do us any good. It'll certainly help the rich get richer, and will be great news for the Cayman Islands, but not for the average American.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlinembmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 109, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4046 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 104):
Time to end the debacle...Vote for Romney/Ryan.

Riiiiiiight. Yep, that'll work. Since he's got all of Cheney's neocons already onboard as foreign policy advisors, we'll be at war with Iran within the first year of his presidency. And since his platform is virtually inseperatble from the Republican platform and those incredibly successful 8 years of Dubya's administration, we'll be in a depression within the first year of his presidency as well.

He has no ideas, he has no specific plans, he has spoken out of all side of his mouth and ass and he's beholden to some psychotic neocons, he has no choice than to turn even further right during his presidency.

Be afraid.


User currently offlineus330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 3866 posts, RR: 14
Reply 110, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4037 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 87):
Things go great when the GOP talks about the economy, but then when you let Rubio go religion and Social Conservatism, you open up a big can of worms

I agree. Now that the GOP has their candidate, I hope Mitt can begin to tack back toward the center and deemphasize some of the strict ideology. Mitt's best strategy until november is to keep asking this question "are you better off than you were four years ago?" and bringing up that choice tagline of "the best part of a presidency shouldn't be the feeling you get when you vote for him" or something like that. This election should be the GOP's to lose, just as the 2008 election was the Democrats to lose.

If Romney makes this election about the economy, he'll probably win. If Romney makes this election about social issues, then he'll probably lose.

And I say this all as an undecided voter who didn't vote for Obama in 2008, but still wanted him to succeed in turning th economy around once he got elected.

Quoting tugger (Reply 90):
I know we deserve better... but how is anyone suddenly going to get both parties to work together to make things works and get things passed in the Congress?

The best guess I can make is term limits--too many of these guys are constantly running for reelection. In Congress, I say four terms, max. (8 years). In the Senate, two terms. IMHO, the best answer is to simply keep voting out the incumbents.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12265 posts, RR: 25
Reply 111, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4035 times:

Quoting us330 (Reply 110):
Mitt's best strategy until november is to keep asking this question "are you better off than you were four years ago?"

And Obama's best strategy is to say "will you be better off with a return to the policies of Bush and Cheney"?



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8777 posts, RR: 24
Reply 112, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 4026 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 111):
And Obama's best strategy is to say "will you be better off with a return to the policies of Bush and Cheney"?

To which we can all laugh and remind him that Bush and Cheney are not running this year.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 113, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4005 times:

Quoting us330 (Reply 110):
Now that the GOP has their candidate, I hope Mitt can begin to tack back toward the center and deemphasize some of the strict ideology.

Except that they've had their candidate for a while now, if only unofficially, yet the social issues have been coming up.

Quoting us330 (Reply 110):
Mitt's best strategy until november is to keep asking this question "are you better off than you were four years ago?"

To which the answer should be "yes". Four years ago the economy was in a nosedive, now it isn't. So the question really is "has Obama been as effective as could be expected in turning the economy around?" And the answer to that isn't clear. Yes, the economy isn't growing at nearly what we'd like, but would things really have been better had we elected McCain (or Hillary, or anyone else)?

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinembmbos From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2597 posts, RR: 1
Reply 114, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3998 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 112):
To which we can all laugh and remind him that Bush and Cheney are not running this year.

...and yet we're still cleaning up from that administration. Two useless and unnecessary wars that cost us trillions, tax giveaways to the very wealthiest citizens, a medicare and education system upgrades that weren't paid for and passed forward to the future administration to fund to name just a few.

Oh and a Republican Party that has stated, on the record, that they would attempt to stymie the Obama administration's attempt to govern in any way possible even to the detriment of the country.

So you may be buying the short-sighted world view, Dreadnought, but I'm counting on enough sane and rational fellow citizens to see through this ruse and not reward a political party that has become rabid in its quest for power, and re-elect Obama.


User currently offlinewindy95 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 2706 posts, RR: 8
Reply 115, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 3980 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 107):
The speech was February of 2008

Nice try but Obama visited the same plant twice and the second speech which part of it is below was in October right before the election and two month's before GM officially stopped making vehicles at the plant. The plant still made Izuzu light trucks for another 5 months or so.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 105):
In October of the same year, when Mr. Obama paid another visit, he promised that "As president, I will lead an effort to retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville so we can build the fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow and create good-paying jobs in Wisconsin and all across America."

But, even now, the plant is not officially "closed." According to GM it is on stand-by and may be opened for production again in the future. So they have had four years to help this plant and the people he told his lies to. So yes it did close during Obamas term and still is officially idled and could've been restarted thanks to the Obamabucks that he promised for retooling for his green agenda.



OMG-Obama Must Go
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 116, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3960 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 115):

But, even now, the plant is not officially "closed." According to GM it is on stand-by and may be opened for production again in the future. So they have had four years to help this plant and the people he told his lies to. So yes it did close during Obamas term and still is officially idled and could've been restarted thanks to the Obamabucks that he promised for retooling for his green agenda.

GM got the bailout, what they did with it was up to the, OBama only said

Quoting windy95 (Reply 115):
like the GM facility in Janesville

. Not trying to make decsions for GM.


I get it, so you think Obama should have specifically interfered in a GM business decision and so does Ryan,
The doublespeak makes the GOP's handsoff stance even funnier. But lets continue down this path if you wish. Heck ryan even requested bailout funds , and didn't do anything for GM .

His buddies must love him



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 117, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3865 times:

Is it just me or did Romney's speech sound a lot like Sen. John Kerry's DNC acceptance speech in 2004?

Dull, uninspired and lack of direction....



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineseb146 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 11453 posts, RR: 15
Reply 118, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3828 times:

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
as protesters frustrated with limited access to the convention site, hotels, downtown areas to protest, even peacefully.

I also heard that, at the same time Romney was waxing poetic on his love of small business, the small business of selling trinkets were not allowed within 30 miles of the Times Forum.

Quoting windy95 (Reply 115):
plant twice and the second speech which part of it is below was in October right before the election and two month's before GM officially stopped making vehicles at the plant.

So, Obama was sworn in January 2009 so it is all on Obama? That the plant was bailed out in October of 2008? How is that possible? I guess the same way the Iraq war was his fault.



Life in the wall is a drag.
User currently offlinecws818 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1176 posts, RR: 2
Reply 119, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3826 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 112):
Quoting Revelation (Reply 111):
And Obama's best strategy is to say "will you be better off with a return to the policies of Bush and Cheney"?

To which we can all laugh and remind him that Bush and Cheney are not running this year.

While that is true, one could argue that some of their ideas are.



volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 120, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3771 times:

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 117):

Is it just me or did Romney's speech sound a lot like Sen. John Kerry's DNC acceptance speech in 2004?

Dull, uninspired and lack of direction....

I don't think it was lack of direction. It was just a political pandering speech, where he finally started to get a little tough with Obama.

Unfortunately for him, after a day and a half, all people are discussing is Clint Eastwood's speech. The RNC may have lost their message to an actor that has initiated a new fad #Eastwooding.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 121, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3733 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 120):

Unfortunately for him, after a day and a half, all people are discussing is Clint Eastwood's speech.

Yes. If I were American and Clint Eastwood was 20-30 years younger and running for President, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.... 



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12274 posts, RR: 47
Reply 122, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3703 times:
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Quoting windy95 (Reply 104):
Eastwood did what he was supposed to do, entertain.

You call that entertainment? It was a train wreck.   

Quoting windy95 (Reply 104):
Time to end the debacle...Vote for Romney/Ryan.

That would only be the start of a different debacle.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinemt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 123, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3692 times:
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Quoting windy95 (Reply 104):

Eastwood did what he was supposed to do, entertain

No no, no.. THIS is entertainment!!

http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-epi...-august-31-2012-?xrs=synd_facebook



Step into my office, baby
User currently offlineDreadnought From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 8777 posts, RR: 24
Reply 124, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3671 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 122):
You call that entertainment? It was a train wreck.

You are in a minority. Republicans and Independents tended to like it.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/Poll...dd16fe-4fad-4218-a638-fbda08c8d518

You remind me of my father's generation, when I would play them (at the time) cutting edge comedy like Richard Pryor or Sam Kineson - "That's just not funny"   . Sorry dad, you just ain't cool enough.



Veni Vidi Castratavi Illegitimos
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1887 posts, RR: 9
Reply 125, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3656 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 113):
To which the answer should be "yes". Four years ago the economy was in a nosedive, now it isn't. So the question really is "has Obama been as effective as could be expected in turning the economy around?"

Really? The unemployment rate in 2008 was 5.8%, today it is 8.2%, jobless claims have increased, employers are dropping private health insurance, food prices are increasing, oil prices are increasing, and many forecasters (including Nouriel Roubini, who predicted the initial recession) are predicting a double-dip recession. Obama passed his stimulus plan, passed his health care plan, through executive order implemented the immigration policy he wanted, poured money into his green energy initiatives while stymying oil production with the rejection of the Keystone Pipeline and the illegal gulf drilling moratorium. His EPA and administration have issued a continuous stream of regulations and executive orders restricting the production and the use of coal, raising energy prices in many parts of the country, all while he inexplicably makes bridge loans to other countries such as Brazil to increase their own oil production at the expense of American workers.

Obama has failed by his own standards. He has passed and implemented pretty much every major piece of policy and legislation he called for which he said would have unemployment down and GDP growing many times more than it is now. And furthermore he is offering up nothing new to solve the equation other than more stimulus spending (now called his "jobs bill"). At very best, and by a stretch, he has done a mediocre job, and I don't believe in rewarding politicians for mediocrity which is why I will use my vote to fire Obama in this election and in four years if Romney has done no better, I will gladly kick him out as well.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 99):
To claim that a mess that big should be all better after 3.5 years is nuts.

That is should all be better by now? No. But there should at least be signs, large indicators, that the economy should be coming back. At this point in Reagan's presidency, the mess was not all cleaned up, but hundreds of thousands of jobs were being created each month and GDP was growing at a very healthy pace...we're not seeing ANY of those indicators right now but rather the threat of a double-dip recession.

Quoting Revelation (Reply 53):
Instead, people who think like Romney are turning education into a profit center to enrich themselves, the nation be damned.

Who gives a damn if they enrich themselves so long as education actually improves. The Left has had carte blanche with American public schools for decades and we have one of the worst education systems amongst industrialized nations. Condoleezza Rice was correct, education is the civil rights issue of our day.


User currently online2707200X From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 8427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 126, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3648 times:

It can be said that Clint Eastwood was brought to the RNC convention because his movie characters from his early to middle career represents the ideals of the Republican Party in the modern sense as an MSNBC commentator alluded to. He as the party is the strong and silent type, has a weapon on hand, is rugged and is a throwback to an older, less complicated period in American history which goes in line with the theme of returning to and restoration that has been talked about in the convention.

Clint Eastwoods skit that was an embarrassment to all but the most ardent conservatives of him essentially taking to a chair, an imaginary or invisible Barack Obama telling him to "shut up" which sounded very paternalistic to me was reminiscent of a Simpson's meme of a picture (pseudo drivers licence) of Abraham "Grandpa" Simpson yelling at a cloud "Old man yells at cloud" in all caps the clip says. Clint Eastwoods skit airing as soon as the networks where tuning in to to see Romneys acceptance speech could have been titled "Old man yells at chair".



"And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by." John Masefield Sea-Fever
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12274 posts, RR: 47
Reply 127, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3614 times:
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Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 124):
You are in a minority.

Out of a grand total of 754 votes? A whole 754 votes?   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5362 posts, RR: 8
Reply 128, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3606 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 124):
You are in a minority. Republicans and Independents tended to like it.

The biggest problem though is the fact that THE talk of the Republican convention is Clint's "talk" and not Gov. Romney's speech or even really Rep. Ryan's speech. That is not a good thing (though there is the theory that it is a good thing as neither of the candidates speeches was particularly good, but I very much hope that is not what is wanted or desired by the Republican's).

A political party's convention should create national buzz about the candidates themselves and their idea's and such. The side show should only be important at a carnival.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21420 posts, RR: 56
Reply 129, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3599 times:

Quoting windy95 (Reply 104):

Eastwood did what he was supposed to do, entertain.

Seems like he was supposed to just give an endorsement speech, and the campaign staff wasn't thrilled with how things played out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/01/us...ds-over-eastwoods-speech.html?_r=1

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7787 posts, RR: 52
Reply 130, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 127):
Out of a grand total of 754 votes? A whole 754 votes?   

I can't tell if this is a scientific poll, but yes, you can get a very good representation of a huge population with only several hundred responses if you have the poll set up correctly and scientifically. Statistics 101



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently onlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5435 posts, RR: 29
Reply 131, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3538 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 99):
The GOP wants to make this election about jobs, and the debt. It is not enough . Too many folks still hold them directly responsible for the mess. They have to make it more about Obama, and the fact that they can do better

We'll find out in November, but a lot of the liberals that I know are not thrilled with how Obama has done. For a number of them, they aren't really all that informed - they just know that times are tough for them. For others, they ware very educated, well-off folks who simply have grown tired of waiting for a turn-around. I'm sure some of this is due to everyone's love affair with Obama in 2008, but of course, he's just like every other president and can only do so much - certainly not nearly as much as is promised in an election.

Regardless, my position is no different than it's been for years. We have two parties wrestling for controls of the ship as it's heading for a big rock, and all they manage to do is jerk it back and forth and back and forth, with no real change in any direction. Just four more years of finger pointing, huge deficits, and politicians getting more power, money, and control.

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 109):
we'll be at war with Iran within the first year of his presidency.

Won't happen.

Quoting mbmbos (Reply 109):
Be afraid.

Lol......oye......At this stage, I think a lot of us are ready to take a bullet. Heck, I would have preferred to take Perot's bullet in 1992 than have waited until we got this far into the hole.  
Quoting Mir (Reply 113):
but would things really have been better had we elected McCain (or Hillary, or anyone else)?

We'll never know, will we? While I'm no fan of HIlary, I think she would have been better than Obama by a long shot. I don't think he's a bad person, per se, certainly no worse than most other presidents, but I think he's in over his head and I think he wants to take us too far in one direction. Hilary MIGHT have been able to pull things more together by now.

Again, we'll never know. Zombies for Obama won the election.

-Dave



Totes my goats!
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1887 posts, RR: 9
Reply 132, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3530 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 131):
While I'm no fan of HIlary, I think she would have been better than Obama by a long shot.

Here's the thing, I too would have preferred Hillary by a long shot. While the Clinton's are leftists to a "T", they're more populists than anything, going hard left when they can, but pulling back to the center when politically expedient. Obama on the other hand is an ideologue, very committed to his hard left views to the point that he's willing to push and pursue them no matter if they're popular or not. Obamacare is an excellent example, it was hugely unpopular when it was passed and even now still, a majority of people oppose it. While Obama pushed for it head-on, the Clintons would have long-ago dropped the issue, like Hillarycare, wanting to be on the politically expedient side of the issue. The tax issue is another great example, Bill Clinton has publicly stated (in a round-about way not to sound too critical of course) that he would extend the tax rates for all for another one or two years. Obama on the other hand is so ideologically vested in raising tax rates on the upper income bracket that he's willing to let taxes go up on everyone if he doesn't get his way....despite the fact that the increased revenue would be negligible and that the government could confiscate 100% of the wealth of the "rich" and still not put a dent in the deficit or budget problem.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 131):
I don't think he's a bad person, per se, certainly no worse than most other presidents

This is where I disagree. Obama has created a constitutional crisis unlike any previous president in recent history, including Bush, in his refusal to do the job he's constitutionally obligated to do. I think we all learned in the 4th or 5th grade about the three branches of government and how the legislative branch makes the laws, the judicial branch interprets the laws, and the executive branch ENFORCES the laws. Well Obama seemingly thumbs his nose at this idea and does what he wants: He refuses to enforce immigration law (putting ICE officials in a terribly awkward position, now they're actually suing him over it), won't defend or enforce laws he "deems" unconstitutional (the Defense of Marriage Act), and provides his own interpretation of laws dictating whether or not he'll follow them, even though he signs them into law (internet gambling). What your views on illegal immigration and gay marriage are are irrelevant if you believe in the rule of law, if you disagree with DOMA or the current immigration laws...then work and vote to effect change through the proper channels (Congress). The president none-the-less should carry out the duties which the constitution vested in him instead of realizing the dream of an imperial presidency that Nixon wanted, which leftists despised.


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12274 posts, RR: 47
Reply 133, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3509 times:
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Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 130):
I can't tell if this is a scientific poll, but yes, you can get a very good representation of a huge population with only several hundred responses if you have the poll set up correctly and scientifically. Statistics 101

And just how scientific and representative is a poll of 754 Floridians? Heck, most of them are probably as old as Eastwood.   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5362 posts, RR: 8
Reply 134, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3504 times:

Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 124):
You are in a minority. Republicans and Independents tended to like it.

Dread, what are you talking about? Regarding Clint Eastwood's speech, the poll you link to shows that less than half (41% in question 4 and 49% in question 7) liked it/thought it helped. How are you making the claim that "Republicans and Independents tended to like it"?

Edited: Ahh, yes I see, you are referring only to the party affiliation portion of question 7.

But even there, two elements of the survey jump out at me:

1. there is a 3.5% MOE so the Independent "majority" is statistically non-existent.

And 2. the poll notes that respondents are "disproportionately Republican" (and that is expected by the poll so that is fine) and of course that would also apply to those that are registered Independents as they normally have strong leanings one way or the other (Rep. Dem. Lib.). And those that would be watching all the speeches would likely (statistically) have Republican's tendencies.

Tugg

[Edited 2012-09-02 01:13:50]


I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently onlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13464 posts, RR: 62
Reply 135, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3500 times:
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Quoting cws818 (Reply 119):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 112):Quoting Revelation (Reply 111):
And Obama's best strategy is to say "will you be better off with a return to the policies of Bush and Cheney"?

To which we can all laugh and remind him that Bush and Cheney are not running this year.
While that is true, one could argue that some of their ideas are.

By that logic, one could also argue that Jimmy Carter's or even Lyndon Johnson's ideas are running this year on the Democratic side as well.

[Edited 2012-09-02 01:08:42]


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5362 posts, RR: 8
Reply 136, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3486 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 131):
Regardless, my position is no different than it's been for years. We have two parties wrestling for controls of the ship as it's heading for a big rock, and all they manage to do is jerk it back and forth and back and forth, with no real change in any direction. Just four more years of finger pointing, huge deficits, and politicians getting more power, money, and control.

This is my feeling too. What will be different under Republican leadership that they could not have done over the last four years? The ability to compromise and work together is dead for now so neither side is going the "let" the other side win. The Republicans have done what they can to stifle compromise and cooperation for the last four years and I see no reason why to expect that the Democrats would not do the same. And I am sure they will do so for the exact same reason that the Republican's did so: For the good of the country.

Yea.....

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12265 posts, RR: 25
Reply 137, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3460 times:

Indeed the problem for Romney is that time is ticking by and no one is talking about him, they're all talking about Eastwooding...

The whole episode shows what happens when Romney strays off-script.

It doesn't give one much confidence about what Romney would come up with if he should get the big job.

Quoting Mir (Reply 129):
Seems like he was supposed to just give an endorsement speech, and the campaign staff wasn't thrilled with how things played out.

Seems they were so excited by Dirty Harry that they threw caution to the wind:

Quote:

Romney advisers so trusted Mr. Eastwood, 82, that unlike with other speakers, they said they did not conduct rehearsals or insist on a script or communicate guidelines for the style or format of his remarks.

And are now running around blaming each other:

Quote:

It also startled and unsettled Mr. Romney’s top advisers and prompted a blame game among them. “Not me,” an exasperated-looking senior adviser said when asked who was responsible for Mr. Eastwood’s speech. In interviews, aides called the speech “strange” and “weird.” One described it as “theater of the absurd.”

And are just plain lying about how it was received:

Quote:

“He spoke from the heart with a classic improv sketch which everyone at the convention loved,” Mr. Stevens said

yet the article has quotes like:

Quote:

Gov. Scott Walker of Wisconsin said on MSNBC that he “cringed” as he sat in the hall during Mr. Eastwood’s performance.

Things just don't seem to be going Romney's way....



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineflyingturtle From Switzerland, joined Oct 2011, 2245 posts, RR: 13
Reply 138, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3444 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 133):
And just how scientific and representative is a poll of 754 Floridians? Heck, most of them are probably as old as Eastwood.

With 754 people polled, and exactly 50% of the people being in favor of Romney and 50% in favor of Obama, the true of percentages of the whole population are, with 95% certainty, within +/- 3.63%. And these values are in no way tied to the true population size of Florida itself - it even assumes an infinite population.

As long you don't mess up the sample selection, 754 people is a very good sample size. Only if you expect a really tight race, you would use a bigger sample size.




David



Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2230 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3431 times:

Pres. George W Bush opted not to attend this years convention (his father too; mainly for declining health). Anyone know when the last time a former president did not speak at or attend for that matter, a major party's national convention?

Pres. Bill Clinton attended 2000, 2004 and 2008 DNC.

Pres George W Bush delivered speech from White House via satellite for 2008 RNC.

Pres George H W Bush (41) attended 1996 2000 and 2004

Ronald Reagan spoke at 1992 RNC, (could not attend 1996 RNC due to his health...Alzheimer's disease)

Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford attended most of their party's national conventions...



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7787 posts, RR: 52
Reply 140, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3421 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 133):
And just how scientific and representative is a poll of 754 Floridians? Heck, most of them are probably as old as Eastwood.   

Take a stats class and get back to me, this is basic statistics. If they pull from a pool of Florida residents it'll be an accurate representation of Florida. Is it really a big surprise? Florida is about 50%-50% Republican-Democrat. Half liking it and half not liking it? I don't see how much of a stretch that is. And if the average age in Florida is higher than the national average, then of course the sample of people will most likely be higher than average. Again, Statistics 101



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5362 posts, RR: 8
Reply 141, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3400 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 140):
If they pull from a pool of Florida residents it'll be an accurate representation of Florida.

It is not an accurate representation of "Florida". I am not knocking statistics or statistical science, the poll itself states that it is not a representation of Florida voters:

Quote:
Caution: As expected, those who watched the speeches at the Republican National Convention were disproportionately Republican. This poll does not attempt to measure how all likely voters in the state of Florida would vote if filling out a ballot today. It attempts to measure early movement among speech-watchers only.

(Emphasis added by me.)

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 142, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3353 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 125):

That is should all be better by now? No. But there should at least be signs, large indicators, that the economy should be coming back. At this point in Reagan's presidency, the mess was not all cleaned up, but hundreds of thousands of jobs were being created each month and GDP was growing at a very healthy pace...we're not seeing ANY of those indicators right now but rather the threat of a double-dip recession.

Reagan's crash had nothing to do with a Global Financial crisis and housing bubble. To get out of his Mess, Reagan , started running deficits and cutting taxes. Globalization hadn't occurred to the degree it has now, and the US economy was rolling.

The economy is growing, but it is doing it less quickly since rates were slashed to near 0 and the housing bubble put a lot of people deep in the hole. Couple that with businesses off-shoring to a large degree, and you have a slow recovery.

However the economy of the US, which wants to grow, has been held back by the European countries financial difficulties still stemming from 2008.

I think we continue to go the path forward. To go with the Ryan/Romney plan would bankrupt the middle class, and destroy jobs. They just can't cut taxes on the rich and close "loopholes" without destroying the middle class.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1887 posts, RR: 9
Reply 143, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3258 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 142):
Reagan's crash had nothing to do with a Global Financial crisis and housing bubble.

I disagree. While there was no Euro crisis, Reagan did have to deal with the Soviet Union as well as it's imminent implosion and the financial and geopolitical implications involved with it.



Quoting casinterest (Reply 142):
Globalization hadn't occurred to the degree it has now, and the US economy was rolling.

Again, I disagree. What China is today is what Japan was in the 80's, it was in fact during Reagan's presidency that globalization really started to kick in full-swing with the other Asian tiger economies and the reunification of Germany...etc. Much of the rhetoric and concerns about China and globalization parallel what happened in the 80's and the fear that "Japan was going to take over the world".

The US economy was not "rolling" when Reagan took office, and it wasn't until he took a number of pro-growth steps oriented around supply-side economics and trickle down tax policies that the economy came back and inflation subsided. Again, at this stage in Reagan's presidency the mess had not been entirely cleaned up, but unemployment was trending down and hundreds of thousands of jobs were being created monthly, so the indications were there that his policies were working.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 142):
The economy is growing

...anemically at best and the jobs being "created" each month aren't enough to keep up with population growth, so net-net the number of people unemployed or underemployed continues to grow.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 142):
but it is doing it less quickly since rates were slashed to near 0 and the housing bubble put a lot of people deep in the hole.

The low interest rates were supposed to act as a catalyst to revive the economy by devaluing the dollar to increase exports and ease credit restrictions to increase borrowing, none of which has happened to a significant enough extent to bring back the economy.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 142):
I think we continue to go the path forward.


It's not a path forward. Obama's policies are neither new nor original, his ideas have been tried before in the past and have been proven to not work. FDR's policies during the Great Depression nearly mirror Obama's actions, huge of amounts spending, Keynesian fiscal policies...etc none which did anything except help the economy to bottom but with chronically high unemployment and no end in sight until WWII came along and brought back the economy. The only key difference is that one can actually point to all the public works projects finished as a result of all of FDR's spending (Hoover Dam, Tennessee Valley Authority...etc), I can't think of one great infrastructure project created as a result of Obama's massive spending. Japan also heavily dabbled in demand-side economics throughout the 90's with countless examples of bridges to nowhere, paving river beds, and massive road projects to areas where no one lives or travels to. None of it has helped the reeling Japanese economy or helped avert a 'Lost Decade' and only gave it the highest debt to GDP ratio in the world.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 142):
They just can't cut taxes on the rich and close "loopholes" without destroying the middle class.

Rest assured it's been done many times before, but the Leftists who often make this assertion have a weak grasp of economics and neglect to factor in the economic growth and larger tax base that coincides with a lowering of marginal rates. Additionally, with 8.2% unemployment the middle class is already being destroyed! The recent CBO scoring on Obama's tax policies of increasing marginal rates on the "rich" (most whom are actually small businesses filing as sole proprietorships) show that it would cost the economy tens of thousands of jobs, middle class jobs.


User currently offlinecws818 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1176 posts, RR: 2
Reply 144, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2847 times:

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 135):
Quoting cws818 (Reply 119):
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 112):Quoting Revelation (Reply 111):
And Obama's best strategy is to say "will you be better off with a return to the policies of Bush and Cheney"?

To which we can all laugh and remind him that Bush and Cheney are not running this year.
While that is true, one could argue that some of their ideas are.

By that logic, one could also argue that Jimmy Carter's or even Lyndon Johnson's ideas are running this year on the Democratic side as well.

Oh, yeah, that L.B.J., he was such a horrible President.....
I notice you didn't mention Bill Clinton's ideas. Thankfully, those are alive and well.



volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 145, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2821 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 143):
Reagan did have to deal with the Soviet Union as well as it's imminent implosion and the financial and geopolitical implications involved with it.

What? The Soviet Union went down after Reagen. The US economy was just beginning to become engrossed in the world. The biggest dangers to the US, were inflation, and Oil Prices, Both of which came down during his administration.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 143):
Again, I disagree. What China is today is what Japan was in the 80's,

China is 7 times larger, and it ihas some very questionable human rights stances that present a difficult environment for US workers to work agains .

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 143):
anemically at best and the jobs being "created" each month aren't enough to keep up with population growth, so net-net the number of people unemployed or underemployed continues to grow.

No doubt about that, but I fail to see where Romney cutting taxes is going to help more. QE1,QE2, and even QE3 aren't enough to do a job where employers are still shipping jobs overseas.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 143):
Rest assured it's been done many times before, but the Leftists who often make this assertion have a weak grasp of economics and neglect to factor in the economic growth and larger tax base that coincides with a lowering of marginal rates

But the rightists if you want to call it that way don't pay attention to the very real fact that since 2001 the taxes have been lower for everyone in the last 60 years and yet growth isn't happening. However the rich are widining the gap with the poor and the middle class. I have a good grasp of economics, and your attempt to belittle it backfires in the face of very real numbers and tax rates.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1887 posts, RR: 9
Reply 146, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2798 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 145):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 143):
Reagan did have to deal with the Soviet Union as well as it's imminent implosion and the financial and geopolitical implications involved with it.

What? The Soviet Union went down after Reagen.

Reread what I wrote, key word being "imminent". When Reagan came into office the Soviets had just invaded Afghanistan, and towards the end of his presidency the Soviets had effectively lost control of the Baltic and Caucus regions. The USSR and the CIS were all a crumbling mess pretty much throughout the 80's.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 145):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 143):
Again, I disagree. What China is today is what Japan was in the 80's,

China is 7 times larger

Not economically, and it certainly wasn't that way in the 80's.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 145):
and it ihas some very questionable human rights stances that present a difficult environment for US workers to work agains .

As it concerns the main issue of "globalization" and jobs being shipped overseas, Japan was the rising economic star that many feared would overtake the work economically and "take all our American jobs...etc".

Quoting casinterest (Reply 145):
but I fail to see where Romney cutting taxes is going to help more.

Lowers the cost of doing business, attracts FDI into the country, stop the 6,000+ new regulations the Obama administration has under review...etc.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 145):
since 2001 the taxes have been lower for everyone in the last 60 years and yet growth isn't happening.

That's not correct, marginal rates were much lower under Reagan, the GDP grew rapidly for much of the last decade, and the US government was collecting record tax revenues. We do however have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, double-tax investment income, and use out-dated taxation methods for MNE's.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 145):
and your attempt to belittle it backfires in the face of very real numbers and tax rates.

Backfires? Where are the "real numbers and tax rates" you're talking about? Do you want to see the marginal tax rates and the increased IRS revenue numbers during the 80's? I could also give you FDI inflows and real GDP growth over the past few decades.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 145):
However the rich are widining the gap with the poor and the middle class.

A total red hearing. What matters is the trajectory of middle class wealth which has indeed been declining the past 4 years...the "gap" is nothing more than old Marxist claptrap (not that you're a Marxist) and has been used as a distraction for generations from the real issues.


User currently offlinecasinterest From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 4431 posts, RR: 2
Reply 147, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2793 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 146):
Not economically, and it certainly wasn't that way in the 80's.

Economically is the misnomer, The problem is that you are measuring it against US dollars, when that is the problem. The US worker can't compete with the Chinese labor.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 146):
As it concerns the main issue of "globalization" and jobs being shipped overseas, Japan was the rising economic star that many feared would overtake the work economically and "take all our American jobs...etc".

The difference being that now with Deregulated airlines, Global Shipping, and the internet, the jobs are easier than ever to offshore-outsource. And that has cost the US worker. Here in NC The Furniture industry and textile industry was decimated.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 146):
That's not correct, marginal rates were much lower under Reagan, the GDP grew rapidly for much of the last decade, and the US government was collecting record tax revenues. We do however have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, double-tax investment income, and use out-dated taxation methods for MNE's.

Show me how the Mariginal rates were lower under Reagen. They were not. especially with all the loopholes currenrly in place.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 146):
Backfires? Where are the "real numbers and tax rates" you're talking about? Do you want to see the marginal tax rates and the increased IRS revenue numbers during the 80's? I could also give you FDI inflows and real GDP growth over the past few decades.

The Fact that the upper 20% continues to gain a serious income gap over those that are lower. The wealth is concenrtrAing at the upper 20% of incomes has increased during the recession. The US GDP is now at or higher than it was prior ot the recession. Jobs have not come back due to circumstances beyond the economic recovery, and it isn't just because of taxes, as those rates and conditions existed prior to the recovery.

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 146):
A total red hearing. What matters is the trajectory of middle class wealth which has indeed been declining the past 4 years...the "gap" is nothing more than old Marxist claptrap (not that you're a Marxist) and has been used as a distraction for generations from the real issues.

The real issue is taxes and regulations upon which we build this country. Our working class suffers because it is cheaper and easier to build in countries where human rights are next to none, and regulations don't put limits on poisionous substances in production.



Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1887 posts, RR: 9
Reply 148, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2784 times:

Quoting casinterest (Reply 147):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 146):
Not economically, and it certainly wasn't that way in the 80's.

Economically is the misnomer, The problem is that you are measuring it against US dollars, when that is the problem. The US worker can't compete with the Chinese labor.

Nor could they compete at the time with Japanese labor with the undervalued Yen.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 147):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 146):
That's not correct, marginal rates were much lower under Reagan, the GDP grew rapidly for much of the last decade, and the US government was collecting record tax revenues. We do however have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, double-tax investment income, and use out-dated taxation methods for MNE's.

Show me how the Mariginal rates were lower under Reagen. They were not. especially with all the loopholes currenrly in place.

After the 1986 Tax Reform Act there were just two tax brackets, 15% and 28%. Today there are six tax brackets, 10% 15% 25% 28% 33% and 35%. Now if you want to talk effective tax rates with the loopholes, that's a different story. Reagan was willing to close essentially all loopholes out of compromise for a lower marginal rate, just as Romney stated he plans to do, Obama on the other just wants to close all loopholes and increase top marginal rates.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 147):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 146):
A total red hearing. What matters is the trajectory of middle class wealth which has indeed been declining the past 4 years...the "gap" is nothing more than old Marxist claptrap (not that you're a Marxist) and has been used as a distraction for generations from the real issues.

The real issue is taxes and regulations upon which we build this country.

Much of the time during which we built this country, taxes and regulations were practically non-existent.

Quoting casinterest (Reply 147):
Our working class suffers because it is cheaper and easier to build in countries where human rights are next to none, and regulations don't put limits on poisionous substances in production.

And increasing the cost of doing business and the cost of production in the US is going to fix this how? No one is seriously proposing paying the working class here Chinese-level wages...that's not necessary for us to remain competitive with China, we already have the infrastructure and the labor capital here whereas in China that has to be built up by the companies at considerable expense. The balance of costs need only be tipped slightly in favor of the US. Look at the auto industry, Toyota and Kia and the likes are able to maintain a competitive manufacturing edge in the US and they have a very well compensated labor force with good internal equity, all without the ridiculous union-demanded compensation that notoriously drove GM into the ground among other things.


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